A New Horizon For Magnesium Bikes? | Super Magnesium Explained With The Vaast Allite A1 Gravel Bike

[@gcntech]

Vaast launching 4th September here; gcn.eu/vaast-bikes

[@ericpmoss]

I like seeing a dropped chainstay, mostly because it always seemed that if a dropped stay is a good idea, it should be for alloys as well as carbon.

[@God_And_Gains]

Did they give any hints as to the price point?

[@ajbluefish]

@@God_And_Gains $2,500 8:55

[@God_And_Gains]

@@ajbluefish fuck that

[@Exsecuor]

@@God_And_Gains That's dirt cheap

[@serisingh]

As a metallurgist, I give this detailed explanation an A+. Well done GCN.

[@hogdog567]

It's amazing just how many cyclists are also professional welders. I am genuinely both of those things and trust me on this, those welds are really good.

[@josh33172]

Yeah, can't compare titanium tig weld or fillet braze on steel to the weld requirements/standards of other materials

[@zyghom]

Anonomosomous cycling is a hobby, welding is a profession. Anybody can cycle, any professional. I would approach it from this angle

[@josh33172]

I think too many people have a predisposition on what a weld should look like based on the finished products of Specialized "Smartweld", C'dale's double pass "SmoothWeld", Tig, fillet braze..... Enter a completely different metal with completely different characteristics and requirements and ultimately doesn't fit conventional wisdom....suddenly everything wrong about it. If I had to guess, and I'm 99.99% sure. The person that welded this frame, it's not his first rodeo. He probably has a monumental amount of experience in welding magnesium and how to get the very most out of the material and the manufacturing process to make it viable.

[@patchiz]

How did you learn how to weld?

[@hogdog567]

Don towne I did a college course and then bought a welder and got practicing. TIG welding isn't easy but it's very satisfying when you get it right.

[@taxusbaccata3001]

I like the enviromental aspects! If you cycle you should be able to recycle!

[@StopaskingformynameYouTube]

That was horriffic.

[@NisseOhlsen]

it should be mandatory.

[@StopaskingformynameYouTube]

@@neru_lol No,you can do that. It was a horrible rhyme. Allmost like a bad dad-joke.

[@neru_lol]

StopaskingformynameKZbin I’m guessing you’re not the popular one at school

[@andyduhamel1925]

Carbon fibre Can be recycled several companies now do just that especially in Western Europe

[@bartoszmoronczyk1053]

As a Material Engineer I very much approve of quite some deep knowledge shared in this video.

[@mrmichael6562]

As an material engineer, would you think magnesium frames are strong enough for MTB?

[@nahu974]

Perfect balance between scientific facts and passion. this is well explaned and entertaining, at the same time. thank you.

[@atexnik]

No word about the fancy chainstay.

[@digbysirchickentf2315]

I would prefer a elevated chainstay, rather than that monster.

[@dr.feelicks2051]

One might confidently say "it doesn't suck" presumedly to keep the frame sealing intact!?

[@edwardhammock24]

Agreed. I was waiting for that. Not mentioning it seemed like the elephant in the room???

[@SteveFullerBikes]

It's a drop chainstay like you see on the the 3T Exploro, but made out of metal, and more of a flat yoke design. It's not really anything terribly new from a design standpoint.

[@SteveFullerBikes]

Increased tire clearance while allowing room for the chainring while using a standard bottom bracket on a 1x system. Before humans decided that a front derailleur was a complex machine, the larger chainring would have been further out and that space occupied by a smaller inner ring. So, you didn't need to do things like this.

[@youriverstraete4986]

Love it that you can see the weldings.

[@jeffcoulter7181]

Yep I like the concept, I just hope it catches on with the mainstream manufacturers.

[@thedailycyclist9295]

The entire video I was waiting for him to mention the drive side chainstay....nope!

[@dr.feelicks2051]

I commented elsewhere..my take is chainsuck prevention? Looking after that precious coating.

[@event4216]

I kept my breath while he was riding....one chainstay already suspect, so what further to expect?!?

[@juanacho]

@@dr.feelicks2051 Yeah, avoiding chainslap would seem like the obvious answer...

[@dr.feelicks2051]

john denton high torque off road hill climb downshifts SNAG😖

[@prestachuck2867]

It’s not about chainslap. There is no chain slap with a clutched derailleur. The chainstay design allows greater clearance for a variety of 1x chainring sizes as well as improving mud clearance.

[@kitbradley2689]

There are variants of super magnesium that can also be cast and forged as well as welded. Not only can you make frames from the stuff, but nearly *every* part could be potentially made of super magnesium. And since it can be hydroformed, a certain amount of shaping is also possible. The UCI's rules against weight are about to get *even dumber*.

[@LeoInterHyenaem]

Interesting. Would be a godsend for those who can't afford or don't want titanium or carbon, but hate the ugly welds the aluminium bikes (as well as this Vaas) sport.

[@paulschmidtke425]

You had me when you said no press fit bottom.bkt

[@petinka721]

Si as always made a great presentation of a new bike!

[@andrewkelk8414]

It's supposed to stop cramping too.

[@dr.feelicks2051]

Are those gnaw marks on yer top tube?

[@newttella1043]

Or cure constipation.

[@mrMYass]

Profile pic checks out

[@maddoc68]

Medical nonsense!

[@billincolumbia]

And helps me sleep better.

[@abedfo88]

You know Si is serious when he is bespectacled

[@Bungle]

He had to read all the technical details from a cue card.

[@bhumiriady]

This is so fascinating and awesome! It's nice to see magnesium making its comeback in the cycling world.

[@AaronGodderis]

Looks pretty fair tbh. I could consider this as an option. Seems like it's tougher than carbon but with the same weight category. Pretty exciting!

[@andyduhamel1925]

Aaron Godderis hmmm that’s a statement that can be dispelled,carbon fibre is incredibly strong and depending on weave and modulus many many times stronger than steel,throw in as will commonly be more prevalent in future +90%, pure Graphene at 5-7-10% content then its impact resistance increases exponentially.

[@FoolOfATuque]

@@andyduhamel1925 how much would that cost and would there be any real world difference?

[@WanderingSword]

@@andyduhamel1925 then why hasn't one been made?

[@tomkunich9401]

Magnesium is generally known as having less longevity than aluminum.

[@andyduhamel1925]

James Rounding it depends on the payoff in performance required if your taking say a pro level component study then it’s highly desirable though most wont benefit to be brutally honest as say a person determined to ride a Toray1000 frame as bragging rights. But they are under development for Olympians to include sub 600gm disc wheels in order to cope with outputs beyond 2500 watts.

[@imagistatheimagista1870]

Bought the A1 in black matte and so far I love it! Very agile, responsive and yes, feels a lot like carbon in many ways. I’ll report back once I’ve got a few hundred miles on it.

[@everythinginfamous1588]

How has the bike been? Considering picking one up.

[@mrhardway5278]

I work as a tree climber and our professional chainsaws crankcases are made of magnesium. so are the outer bits like the chain cover and starter.

[@jr10021]

Great job explaining Mg from Si. I say this as a metallurgy prof with special interest in Mg alloys - a great material for bikes!

[@kellrockets101]

Is fatigue life of magnesium alloys something to be concerned with? Thanks

[@theguzziman]

I had a top end magnesium frame a few years back. 2001 model I think I remember. It rode very well. Light. Responsive. Seemed to smooth out vibration a bit too. After about 15 months use the weld at the seat tube/top tube split about half way through. A little research at the time suggested this wasn’t uncommon with these magnesium frames. The welds were a known weak point in magnesium at the time. That may have changed of course. I found something else out too. If you cut your knackered frame into six inch bits and put them one at a time into a hot wood burner, they burn very very brightly. My daughters, who enjoyed the light show with me, still talk of it fondly. We were all wearing double sunglasses just in case due to the brightness btw 😊

[@identiticrisis]

Magnesium has higher "internal damping" than other structural metals, making it attractive for use anywhere you might find vibration. A lot like carbon. Allegedly, this alloy was developed for aerospace use (formerly "classified") and weldability was one of the priorities.

[@iiLouixie]

Awesome story. Did you burn the whole frame piece by piece?

[@theguzziman]

Erik Yang we burnt it all yes. Bit by bit 😊

[@theguzziman]

Erik Yang my daughters still like to tell the tale 15 years on

[@stevek8829]

You can easily light powdered magnesium with a flint spark but it won't light from the heat of a lighter.

[@tokiomitohsaka7770]

I remember building a robot from magnesium when I was in high school because we had a very strict weight restriction and this has allowed us to keep with our desired design and not be over the limited weight (though we were less than 15 grams away from the limit).

[@michaelmagee6428]

Please YES, bring Magnesium bike frames to the market!!! Magnesium is a wonderful material for bike frames. Question: how difficult to repair a cracked magnesium frame? Re-weld a joint? Thanks for the Tech Show!! Love this channel!!

[@oliverl2172]

Gorgeous liquid cherry red paint job 😍

[@sepg5084]

The lower part of MTB suspension forks are usually made of magnesium. It is also used on lightweight alloy wheels for automobiles. I wish magnesium rigid forks were more common. I'm down with carbon frames but I'd rather have magnesium forks than carbon ones.

[@andrewbrown6462]

I have a magnesium tandem that's almost as light as my single bike, and easily as responsive. Very forgiving over rough roads

[@sokfat]

Bravo! Want to see more bikes to fill the riders’ need

[@21335186z]

Whoa 13%, Earth must be really light and strong.

[@LBAndersen]

Awesome bike both in specs and looks! I would definitely look to magnesium for my next bike!

[@wallacedavidg]

My brother is riding a Leonard Zinn magnesium frame bike. It's a custom bike as he is 6'8" (203 cm) and it is lighter than my Giant Defy Advanced 1 carbon fiber bike.

[@poraktobask]

Regardless of how it rides and the fancy material, that bike looks super nice.

[@roye2479]

Lots to like about this super Mag, hope it catches on

[@michaelrabago5539]

Just purchased the 650B gravel bike super nice ride and is very responsive.

[@gcntech]

Nice!

[@achiltsompanos447]

Fantastic. Magnesium bikes. A brand new rabbit hole to dive into. As if we didn’t have enough already. Excellent gravel road, by the way. Thankfully where I live, off-road conditions are challenging for mtbs let alone so called gravel bikes.

[@brannmacfinnchad9056]

I don't think I put enough watts out to catch my bike on fire, even if it was made of fatwood. So no worries about spontaneous combustion there!

[@guywithabeard]

fatwood? or do you mean THICCwood?

[@BmoreIrish]

Seriously considering this bike right now. Was looking at the trek checkpoint SL5, but this review is pushing me to this bike.

[@briangeiger9307]

You can ask any testing house. Magnesium is used for vibration fixtures. Reason is magnesium material itself has high inherent damping. Meaning you don't want to make a bell out of magnesium. It won't ring for long. For a gravel bike, high damping is probably a good thing.

[@YtseHWSW]

As far as I can remember, Merida used to have a line of Magnesium frames 10-15 years ago....

[@gurkpojken]

Dont forget that Merida did a few models in magnesium. Both mtb and road. Really nice bikes until you needed to repair them.

[@reinholdachleitner2069]

Hello Daniel,what models were they in Mg by Merida?

[@gurkpojken]

@@reinholdachleitner2069 Merida 909 and Merida matts magnesium elite

[@event4216]

Frankly, aluminium frame isn't too cheap to be repaired properly and even then - how about reliability...I mean, for heavier use that rolling around park. Usually they get tossed, don't they? Well, some really fancy and expensive alu frames probably get repaired.

[@amfinc2]

So cool! Great video and explanation.

[@thrownchance]

5:00 slightly less stiff than steel? A massive understatement. Try a 3 times resp. 4 times lower Young's modulus for Aluminium or Magnesium than steel.

[@WARnTEA]

Rainer Riegler but how do you compare the metals in regards to tubing size as well as buttings?

[@thrownchance]

@@WARnTEA It is highly dependent on the type of loading. Usually the strength is of no real concern because a frame built to strength would be way to soft to be usable. Therefore you build it to a certain stiffness. But how the tubing sizes would compare is highly dependent on the boundaries and the actual loading. But all this doesn't really matter since Mg is way more expensive compared to Aluminium and by far not as good as CFRP. For more comparisons Granta made material comparison charts available (also called Ashbi Diagramms): downloadfiles.grantadesign.com/pdf/teaching_resource_books/2-Materials-Charts-2010.pdf

[@CristoffelBonorand]

Very interesting! I'm intrigued by the material and would definitely consider Vaast if looking for a gravel bike. But for now I'm very happy with my responsive but forgiving steel steed :) I'm looking forward to new road bikes made of this super magnesium though.

[@paulschmidtke425]

Beautiful looking bike

[@walshman70]

Nice job! Very good explanation. And nice looking gravel machine! Especially, the T-47 bottom bracket shell standard being used and what looks like a race-y Cyclocross-esque geometry (?)

[@LeandroCoelho3]

What a beautiful color

[@Zalesie123]

Love Magnesium. But there was one more mass production magnesium bike not mentioned here, Merida Magnesium Elite, which was phased out as it was cracking near the top of the seat tube. Any comments on that?

[@shipswithoutsails]

Zalesie123 i once cracked my Carbon fibre frame. I once cracked my steel frame. No material is immune.

[@Zalesie123]

@@shipswithoutsails I cracked a titanium one (faulty welding). but still, some are more immune than others ; -)

[@stereobangbang]

That glasses/face combo is magnificent

[@pauldjerassi620]

Another very informative video Simon top quality ,however i think i would stay with the Tit frame for my preference Thank you another great video from you.PD

[@brannmacfinnchad9056]

"represents rare earth". My first thought was erbium, as the obvious E. But Yttrium is used in magnesium alloys to increase strength, soo...maybe? Regardless, nice looking bike. I wouldn't want to think about getting one until that corrosive resistance is proven over some years of hard use, though.

[@skulengu6854]

Everyone noticed the elephant in the room, but Si never mentions the drive side chain stay. I can't imagine that they simply made it to look different. We all are collectively scratching our heads as to what purpose it serves. If you have to make an entirely new video to explain it, I think we all want to know what is the unique reason for it's existance, if any.

[@rbruce63]

Indeed it’s the true elephant in the room! If I were to import the bike into Costa Rica I might file a claim to the maritime insurance company that the bike was stepped on by a forklift!

[@therealSIRBOOM]

Apparently it is to improve tire clearance and chainring options. How... I don't know. And considering they only seem to include 1 chainring and nobody is going to actually upgrade it... why? And it's only a 42mm max with a 700. Sooooooooooo... not sure if they really hit the nail on the head there.

[@breakshot7451]

that was quiet revealing liked it very much

[@twatts4436]

Glad to see more effort going into these metal frame choices (magnesium and more advanced aluminium). Alongside Titanium, steel, and existing aluminium, you can cover most market sectors and overall be more eco. Not only can metals be recycled, they can be repaired. Carbon can be repaired, but not very easily. And as you mentioned, if it can't be repaired it ends up in landfill!

[@NZLKevin88]

Having needed to get both Al and carbon frames repaired I can say carbon is easy to get a repaired, AL welds need heat treatment and then will not last long before they crack again.

[@future62]

I am sold... need to see a road version with tighter frame to tire clearances. I suppose the frame designs will be limited to boring tubes rather than swoopy Roubaix curves. Small price to pay

[@solitaryrefinement6787]

I bet it doesn't need to be as babied in the manufacturing process as Titanium either. This sounds like the perfect all-road bike; Light as carbon, stronger than steel, stiffer than Titanium and of course, more comfortable than aluminum all while being relatively affordable in the real world.

[@raresmircea]

Good news overall 🤘

[@michaeltillman886]

I think it's a great idea. My question is; what the hell took them so long? Good video as always my friend.

[@Benjo1102]

If they had an R1 model (Road bike), I'd consider buying.

[@demonetizationnationtm7316]

They have a u1 but it doesnt have drops tho...

[@dafiltafish]

It's super cool and I sort of want one.

[@FenixYuk]

07:43 this really shows how the dropped chainstay paired with a high BB height is not a bright idea.....

[@ResilientTim]

Anyone remember the Paketta Tandem? Mg is a beautiful frame material.

[@gimmeagig]

I like it, I want one!

[@LeesChannel]

I have a double-butted chromoly steel bike with a magnesium alloy fork... or at least I did until the seat tube snapped off of the bottom bracket right through the lug. So I guess magnesium alloy lasts longer than chromoly steel.

[@dubwb2217]

Not a bad looking bike overall but at 9:43 that is some rough looking welding work!

[@alexmaksymenko6616]

2.5k for walmart welds? I'm ok thanks.

[@SamHowson]

Absolutely love the focus on sustainability and the cost of manufacturing/ recycling on our climate. Keep it up guys.

[@gebhardt2]

I've been a metallurgist for 20 years. I also love bikes. I want the fastest bike I can get and sorry to say, that's carbon. So as much as I love metal, personally, I still want a carbon frame, fork, wheels, etc...

[@michaelkaye4998]

Compare frame weights. All same size. All same type; road, gravel, mb. Nothing attached. Aluminum Magnesium Steel Titanium Carbon

[@offirkilion3500]

Well made video!

[@charlesblithfield6182]

Si acknowledges the terrible environmental record of carbon fiber, truly an unsustainable material, but how many shrug and buy a carbon bike anyway?

[@simonrano8072]

enough to keep 30+ brands making profit while sponsoring pro teams apparently...

[@CodSlap]

I’ve never considered a carbon bike to be a viable option for this reason alone. Talk is cheap, actions count.

[@404nobrakes]

It’s tough. The frame (400g), the fork (200g), the wheels (100g), the bars/stem/seatpost (100g) all add up. Between all the parts of the bike, going from full carbon to full titanium would probably a bit less than a kilo. This is before you consider aerodynamics, though. Getting similar aero properties with metal would probably be impossible but getting even close would add a lot of weight. Also, titanium would almost certainly be more expensive. That being said, I think most people could still enjoy biking on a full metal bike, even if it is heavier and flexier. Especially if the big companies put a lot of R&D in. What we need is a “green tax” that makes it extremely expensive to use non-recyclable materials. Without that, unsustainable materials will always be more attractive.

[@TommyShlong]

Charles Blithfield I bought a used one so...

[@MrScrofulous]

That's a fair point, but for myself, I'm ready to consider alternatives, and this frame is very attractive to me for that reason.

[@Cyclingmasterseller]

Actually, the magnesium Dogma is a great frame, I own one. The frame is nothing short of fantastic for transferring ALL your power to the rear wheel, which is more than I can say for most bikes, carbon or otherwise. I must add that magnesium is a lot more labor-intensive to build up, rather than creating a carbon mold and pumping out massive numbers of carbon frames by the millions. So was magnesium a fad, I don't think so, it's just that a high-end Dogma magnesium frame was very expensive to build vs. carbon, the rest is history. I also believe Oscar won the tour on his magnesium Dogma in 2007, not 2006, but, hmmm, I could be wrong, lol. Cheers. P.S., great video by the way!

[@DSBSB]

Cyclingmasterseller Listen to yourself! Justifying your ownership of a mag Dogma, by shitting on carbon frames ‘pumped out in their millons’! You don’t need to convince yourself or anyone else about your decision by belittling the other options. You’ve got a bike you love - others love their carbon bikes. How about just enjoying what you’ve got without being salty?

[@simonorr594]

@@DSBSB I have a carbon De Rosa, Colnago and a Pinarello magnesium Dogma. The Dogma is great - very stiff, but not as light as the carbon frames. I like the handling on it best, but that is probably because of the geometry, not the material - best descender by far.

[@AngeloDeValPhotos]

Very interesting episode

[@chrislukes9037]

I'm curious how the alloy percentages (8% Aluminum, 1% mix of rare earth metal -- obviously matters which REMs make up that 1% but possibly proprietary) compare to the typical magnesium alloys used in the referenced bikes of the past. Also, don't to forget to add Scandium to the curriculum for extra credit!

[@JETZcorp]

Magnesium used to be super common in high-performance motorcycles. Engine cases and wheel hubs on MX bikes were almost always magnesium at one point.

[@A1976-p7f]

This was informative...iam planning to develop my own brand of e bikes for niche market in Goa India n some cases semi disability persons like sensitive back n knee this perfect as ebicycles r environment friendly n this frame also

[@evelasq1]

Their website is not up yet. There are no photos of their bikes with their bike specs on their website. September 4th is around the corner.

[@thomasnewton8997]

Its a beautiful bike 🚲

[@squishybiker]

In becoming a bit more aware about where stuff goes when we can't fix it anymore, I'm trying to stay away from carbon bikes - this is the alloy I've been waiting for!

[@dronezippy8637]

Definitely the future!

[@Pastamistic]

I'll probably make that my next bike! I'll fit in with all of the cool kids. Kind of exotic like Ti, real like steel, rides like carbon and it can be recycled!

[@AaronJones0]

I may have just been sold on magnesium over carbon fiber. Will definitely be checking out Vaast.

[@lolsnory]

I was saving for a Fairlight secan. But because of the environmental aspect I'm going to get one of these

[@SuperDeinVadda]

Both steel and aluminium get completele recycled. Calling magnesia environmentally friendly is just a markering thing. To catch all the hipsters.

[@davemoss6976]

Manx Norton motor bikes had magnesium crankcases and wheel hubs. One racing in the TT once crashed and went up it a spectacular fire. Not having a tank full of petrol should mean we don't need to worry about a push bike suffering the same fate.

[@osheathedj]

I have a Magnesium 05 Pinarello Dogma FP. SUCH a beautiful and amazing bike.

[@schoebelski6602]

Wow, I am excited (despite the look of the welding). Only a bit heavier than carbon, otherwise probably a good blend of stiffness and compliance, (further tests needed, tho). And I am 100% with Si: the ability to recycle the frame is a HUGE Plus in my book aswell. Will Vast also come out with a proper roadbike-frameset made from SuperMAG? Thanks for bringing this up GCN (eventhough it's an advert). 👍

[@adanielweaver]

This has my attention. I wonder if the manufacturing is dangerous even if the final product isn't?

[@rudyelizondo1935]

How much does it weigh? Any knicks n scratches and there goes the coating this rust

[@DrJRMCFC]

looks lovely.

[@Hazemann]

Nintendo Switch Pro will be using Magnesium Alloy for it body...how cool is that !

[@johndef5075]

Univega used to sell something called a boralyn frame. Beryllium also I believe has been tried.

[@ianjohnstone1061]

Noticed in the riding footage that the exaggerated dropped chain stay could be venerable to chain slap on a rougher surface - this is a problem with all rigid Gravel Bikes thou..

[@johnora3857]

Love it!!

[@GG-si7fw]

Thank you for talking about the carbon footprint of bike manufacturing.

[@DerrenWeekes]

gosh, i remember tomorrows world on the bbc talking about magnesium bikes about 30 years ago - so about time!

[@duncanduncani7532]

Looks great, perhaps needs a high end road version to get noticed

[@trevekneebone369]

Slick cable port on the down tube !!

[@1nulcearfamily224]

I could get down on this Super Mag bicycle!!!

[@utkangezer]

I am intrigued. I hope this to gain some traction, challenged in price by different companies and then a tad bit more affordable. Its sustainability aspect might make this magnesium alloy in bikes a selling point, disposing other brands to have one to offer. Electric revolution on cars, might be happening with this magnesium alloy on bikes. I hope to be able to afford either next year by now!

[@yorkchris10]

Excellent, brand new hand-me-down.

[@qqkk5581]

The original "Mag" wheels used on American muscle cars in the 60's were made out of magnesium - but the alloy was quickly abandon. Why? In the event of a brake fire (or any fire) the mag wheel would also ignite - and because of the high magnesium content the fire could not be extinguished by the fire department - no department was equipped for it. Wheel manufactures thereby switched to aluminum.

[@AmaroqStarwind]

Magnesium is BACK!

[@stephenlargue6289]

I really like it 👍