Everything You Didn’t Know About Titanium Bikes

[@gcntech]

Do you own a titanium bike? Let us know in the comments 👇

[@aliensporebomb]

Yes. Serotta Legend TI. Dura Ace 10 speed. Ksyrium SL wheels. It's an old school mid 2000s TI ride. But pretty nice, smooth. Light. It was in storage at the former owners under a tarp so it was virtually mint condition and never really got ridden. I have rectified that.

[@simonp964]

Yes. Bianchi Matta S9. Campagnolo Record 10 speed + Vento wheels + 3ttt bars and stem. Love riding it. Not overly light - but neither am I ...

[@paulseaman7773]

Just bought a Reilly T325D last week gorgeous 😊

[@gravelyc10]

Yes. Lynskey Sportive 2019. Excellent bike.

[@toddsmith8190]

Yes! I’ve had Litespeed MTBs and Road bikes since 1998. I currently have Lynskey Helix and Lynskey GR300. I put 50,000 miles on a Litespeed Vortex and I sold that frameset to someone else for $1500. I’ve got 10,000 miles on my Helix and 7,000 on my GR300. So, I’ve got lots of experience on Ti bikes. I’ve had Carbon Road and MTBs too. I’m not sure what’s going on in the UK but here in the states Ti bikes have become cheaper than carbon bikes now. Sadly, the industry pushes high priced carbon that doesn’t last and you can’t recycle. Carbon is the best for racing! I get that. But it’s not the best material for regular people and the environment.

[@Przemo-c]

Finally talking to someone that knows their stuff that isn't all sunshine and rainbows like an ad. Very much appreciated. Even when talking about road chatter wasn't over emphasized as it shouldn't given that frame mitigates all that in relatively small way compared to tires spokes and saddle, grips and soles. We need more content like this!

[@eoinkenny3188]

Looking just at the frame, the material is only one factor. Frame geometry, tube geometry, wall thickness, and fabrication methods all play significant roles in the "comfort" of a frame as well and are difficult concepts to convey to your average rider.

[@Przemo-c]

@@eoinkenny3188 Sure are and even same geometry with same amount of materials but thinner wall of a larger diameter Vs thicker wall of smaller diameter affects characteristics significantly. I really liked the interview conveying the nuance. I'd love to see a discussion about what we think of as comfort and how big of an effect componens have. Like it's beef done to death with performance of tires rims aero lightweight clothing etc but properly attributing effect sizes for tires saddles seat posts their offset. Because when talking about frame flex and dampening it's certainly not placebo but changing tire pressure couple psi can have way more significant effect than modern frame characteristics on comfort. When we did experiments at our uni people weren't able to discern squat when it came to frame designed when we obscured them.

[@___Bebo___]

lol that's cope. Any steel or Ti bike is going to soak up road chatter much much better than your dentist bike.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

@___Bebo___ always here to tell everyone you're a mindless🤡

[@veganpotterthevegan]

@___Bebo___ funny thing is that a lot of titanium bikes are considered "dentist bikes"

[@swecreations]

Love this guy, he's the clearest example of an engineer at heart, none of the marketing bs.

[@tarpo1n]

I have a Moots and would not trade it for 10 "plastic" bikes

[@davidnicholson6680]

I love the honesty of the discussion here. No overly definitive statements or fluff, just calmly presenting the trade-offs.

[@bobnelson2828]

I'm still riding my 1998 Litespeed Classic; still strikingly beautiful in brushed finish. Updated to Shimano Compact Ultegra 11 speed groupo and HED wheels; 28 mm Conti's. Lifetime bike indeed. 45K miles.

[@johnhutto71]

I had a '99 Litespeed classic that I sold after 20 years and 40k miles. It was still in great shape and had by far the best ride quality of any bike I've owned. I really regret selling it.

[@sportscentral8655435]

​@@johnhutto71 I think I have your bike! I got it from Walter

[@bikemike1118]

I‘m still riding and loving my 1993 Litespeed XC hardtail … looks and rides like on day one. With hand selected parts it is still a head turner and the ride is really great.

[@berosia]

Have a litespeed purchased in 1998. Have a garage full of worn out wheels , chains and two carbon frames. Best riding bike I have ever owned . Started racing in 1968, am now 80 and still riding mt Litespeed.

[@bikemike1118]

Congrats, man! I own a 1993 Litespeed as well (hardtail XC bike) and ride it regularly and ❤ it!! I’m 54 now but have it since I was 23 years young! …. Enjoy your ride 💪🏼

[@TechStryker]

Salute sir, i am form Bangladesh.. May Allah bless you..

[@ShawnStradamus520]

Another way to consider the cost is the amount invested spaced over time. I have 3 Ti bikes (road, cross/gravel, and mtb) and I love them all. The road bike was purchased new and custom built over 30 years ago, which cost me a pretty penny ($3K) at the time. The others were purchased on the second hand market at or below fair market value. I find that the performance they deliver is a mostly a matter of the overall build quality (wheels, crank, etc) and is not really diminished by time itself per se. Admittedly, they are not quite on a performance level with a purebred modern carbon race bike from the 2015 era, but they are close enough that it’s the rider making the difference and not the bike (and they are every bit as fast as the 2023 hydraulic disc brake, battery operated gear shifting ones). So based on my initial investment I have paid $100 a year for the road bike that I bought at full retail, and much less for the others.

[@gm9559]

I ride a 24 year old Litespeed with modern Dura Ace. Weight 7,5 kg. I've ridden everything with it. I ride it all year round. Great machine. Stiff, tough and still comfortable.

[@nyohaku]

Yes. Mine is about 20 years old.

[@toddpillow3074]

Good for you. My Litespeed frame cracked at 20k miles and 15 years with 150 pound rider in his 50s. The bike was never crashed and looked nearly showroom fresh. LITESPEED REFUSED TO WARRANTY.

[@robertmendelson7724]

My 23 year old litespeed is over 20000 miles and is in great shape. It’s a little heavier 9kg. But so am I at 90 kg

[@jamesmedina2062]

Never got a frame but a Titanium Raceface BB from Canada has lasted 25 years without any issues on mountain bike. I usually look for Litespeed when shopping.

[@frankyancy1347]

I've one the same age, still looks like new...what great bikes. I did put down tube shifters on it as I can service them.

[@iansingleton]

They always say "a Ti bike is your last bike" or words to that affect! One thing I think that always stands out is the appearance of a Ti bike! It just has that special look about it. You can always tell the difference between a brushed Alu frame and a raw Ti frame! It just has that smoothness and shines in a certain way. Great film as ever 👍

[@ytyehyeh]

The problem with that notion is that preferences for some largely immutable things change. My 10+ year old Ti frame is limited to 25mm tires in the rear and is rim brake only. I don't necessarily care to have disc brakes, but I would like the option of larger tires and I cannot do it, at least on the rear. I suppose I could get a new fork with clearance for a fatter tire up front, and even a front disc brake, but I'm forever stuck with 25mm tires and rim brake in the back. Well, I suppose I could look at one of the reasons for the revival of 584mm/650b--converting skinny-tire 622mm/700c bikes to take fatter tires, but by the time I get new wheels, new long reach caliper brakes, etc., I might as well just get a new (last?) bike.

[@peterwillson1355]

​​@@ytyehyehDo you NEED tyres wider than 25mm? Or just think you do? And what's wrong with rim brakes? Use better quality pads.

[@ytyehyeh]

@@peterwillson1355 I don't NEED or think I need tires wider than 25mm (at the moment anyway), but I'd like to run full coverage fenders/mudguards with the 25mm tires that I like, but I can't because there is no room for it in the rear. Nothing wrong with rim brakes, I already use good pads (Kool Stop Salmon), and I'm not averse to re-lacing a wheel, e.g. to replace a worn rim, if needed (I've done it multiple times), but again disc brakes allow for more options. Why not give yourself options for "your last bike"? Not giving yourself options is a sure-fire formula for failure to acquire "your last bike" as your needs/wants for things like different tires or fenders as you get older. One thing/option that might be going a bit too far (as compared to expecting to use wider tires, fenders or disc brakes) IMHO is getting a breakaway rear triangle to possibly accommodate a belt drive in the future. If at some point I wanted an IGH and belt drive bike, I'd resign myself to having to buy a new bike.

[@peterwillson1355]

@ytyehyeh I bought my "last bike" 28 years ago and I'm still using it. It's had fenders on all those years, minus the first month. I could fit 25s with the fenders on and probably 30s without fenders but I find 23s provide all the comfort I need. This is an " audax " frame in Reynolds 531 , though. I have no regrets whatsoever .

[@Cyclist-o6e]

@gcntech Great video, Alex! More like this please. It's good to see bikes that aren't carbon fibre aero race bikes covered on GCN. There's so much more to cycling.

[@JackMott]

video idea for you guys: a blind frame material comparison between ti, steel, and carbon. keep wheels tires saddle bars and groupset identical. cover the frame so riders cant see it. see if they can reliably identify any comfort or smoothness differences

[@jaunedroite]

The problem with this is that you would also need identical geometry and that's hard to do in practice.

[@notkaty]

Why? Having a 1cm lower stack height doesn't give away it's a carbon frame.

[@JackMott]

easy enough to get the stack reach and seat tube angle the same with stem/spacers/saddle position adjustments. anyway if frame material "Ride" differences are not profound enough to show up under a few cm of geometry changes, then I would suggest they are overblown =) @@jaunedroite

[@hendrixinfinity3992]

You won't be able to. A bike is a double triangle, there is no such thing as vertical compliance without vertical movement (suspension). Steel can flex at the BB shell because of the thinness of the tubes but thst is horizontal compliance Compliance is only achieved in the seatpost, handlebars, tyres and suspension, not in the frame.

[@monty2078]

I have aluminum, carbon and titanium bikes all with Ultegra and all fit me properly. These are all very high end bikes with the aluminum one being the lowest cost with the titanium and carbons being about the same (in the pricing stratosphere). The rides are definitely different with the difference being much more pronounced on rougher surfaces. The titanium bike somehow soaks up the ride better at the same speed. It's hard to explain but it like the titanium bike gives you back some energy a it like surfing.

[@BC-wj8fx]

Titanium is insanium. I was t-boned by a car on my titanium bicyle. Bicycle did a flip over the bonnet, bounced off the car and crashed to the road. The carbon handlebar exploded. The aluminium wheels only needed a new rear tube and spokes adjusted. Could not find any scratch on the titanium frame or fork. I have not ridden anything that I've liked more.

[@TheSuperDotcom]

I am so jealous that you have a Ti fork

[@BC-wj8fx]

@@TheSuperDotcom Ali Express, very good value and quality. TiTo titanium.

[@chipmartens]

My first Ti bike is the Curve GXR, which I got when I was an ambassador for them. I already owned their "Kevin of Steel" and out of curiosity, I built up their titanium "Kevin" ( GXR ) with an identical build kit so I could ride them back to back to compare. I tried both bikes with 650b wheels and 2.3" tires and also a quicker 700 x 42 setup. I found that I preferred the "snap" of the Columbus Zona steel tubing when I was riding the bike fast, however, the titanium frame eliminated all road chatter on rough pavement and somehow magically smoothed out the washboards on beaten up gravel roads. My second Ti bike was an Alchemy Atlas road bike. The tubes on the Curve are flatted and welded horizontally, which I understand gives it more of that comfortable feeling, however, on the Alchemy the tubes are flattened and welded vertically, which I understand gives it more of that rigid feeling you want on a proper road bike. The bike is *considerably* more rigid than my Curve and, compared to the carbon bikes I've ridden, would say is equally as stiff while offering a frame I'm not scared to lean up against a fence post. My third Ti bike was a custom hardtail I helped design with Sam from Singular, dubbed "The Spitfire" ( possible production run in the future ). Coming from a steel hardtail, the titanium was a noticeable improvement. Whether ripping up trails or bikepacking, I could really notice that "comfort" feeling that Tom from Sturdy mentioned. My fourth and most recent Ti bike was the "Double Ace" from Woho, which is maybe a lesser-known company, but the build quality of their bikes is on-par with the Curve that I still have, but costs about $1400 less. So far, I'm really impressed with the bike. I was looking for something to bridge the gap between my Curve, running big chunky tires for rougher roads, and my Alchemy which is really setup for road. My initial thoughts are that it's worth looking into for those who are ti-curious. They're easy to find here in the US/Canada through their distribution partner - cycletouring.shop/products/woho-double-ace-titanium-gravel-road-bike-frameset

[@jamesmedina2062]

I have two all steel and two carbon-steel road bikes and perhaps like you I have enjoyed the Zona steel with Columbus Carve carbon italian bike with 25mm Conti tires when riding fast in summer its cool. But when riding for exercise at night I prefer the all-steel Independent Fabrications because its more forgiving over pavement and so is the classic lugged Bianchi I have.

[@nonkellambik]

I have a titanium bike ( Van Nicholas ) for 3 years now, it has an Ultegra Di2, I am very pleased with it. On the personal side: I find it also important to have a bike that doesn't look like all the other bikes ( aero, matte black, etc.. ), that was one of the reasons I bought it.

[@xosece]

having the possibility to use something yours for a lifetime is something unique in the current world where things are made to be consumed, or subscriptions fees are the norm, etc... Or capitalism and so on

[@gerardheinen510]

Wel van Nicholas heb je?

[@nonkellambik]

@@gerardheinen510 Boreas Di2

[@MCGPeaches]

Finally purchased my first Ti bike at 59 and it doesn't disappoint; handles everything so much smoother and where it really excels is the stiffness when powering through pedal strokes; feels like 100% effort is being delivered where it should be. My first was purchased used off EBay, a 2017 Lynskey R265 with rim brakes and the Lynskey carbon fork with Ultegra group and a Campy Centaur crank. For what I paid there are Aluminum bikes with Disc brakes that cost way more. I'm definitely a CONVERT! riding with Ultegra wheels and 28mm tires with tubes a carbon seat post and carbon bars... What's stands out most to me most are the lack of downsides to owning a TITANIUM BIKE, ie. the cost of the bike, the difficulty in repairing since it can't be welded in air and that cost would be expensive also. THAT'S IT! These are the only downsides to owning or purchasing a Ti bike.

[@FabioRox75]

I got my titanium bike in March 2003 (Mega Grimsel Snows). To this day I still use it and it looks like it came out of the factory yesterday

[@jasonboring6429]

I own two titanium bikes and love them to death. One is a Merlin from '91, almost fully original with the 8-speed Dura-Ace STI and Mavic Open Pro wheels. An absolute delight to ride 🙂 But don't take it out to often. My main use bike is an Italian no-name frame (don't know which manufacturer any more) from '98, which has been upgraded from 2x9 -> 2x10 -> 2x11 to now having 2x12 wireless. Main drawbacks are the ITA BB, 1" headset and no possibility for internal routing, basically eliminating Shimano DI groupsets.(I love rim brakes! 🙂 ) But it has some amazing history having been my steed for many Grand fondo's over the past 25 years. No need for any other bike for me!

[@millermiller75]

What size tire width? Thx.

[@sabrowenie]

Back in the 90’s had a ‘screwed and glued’ Raleigh frame (tubes were pinned to lugs then ‘aerospace’ epoxy used) which were rumored to be made from commercially pure titanium tubing sourced from decommissioned Soviet era submarines. Can best be described as riding a noodle. Front could flex a couple inches by leaning on it. Lasted about two seasons. From the constant flexing one of the seat stays came unglued during a spirited group ride. This was pre cell phone. Walked to the nearest pay phone to call wife for a ride. Today there’s a few bikes made of various materials in my Service Course. My favorite road ride is a 2003 Litespeed Tuscany. Through many component upgrades still my forever bike.

[@ArkUSAbikerchick]

Yes! I have a 2002 Litespeed Tuscany! Smooth ride on rough farm roads!

[@BestKiteboardingOfficial]

Raleigh dynamax, made from Russian sourced titanium tubing that was intended for a chemical plant.

[@LukeRichardson1981]

Built up a titanium road bike around a custom frame from Waltly this past spring and have since put nearly 5000km on it, and I love it. Feels great, looks great, and rides nice and quickly.

[@kaktus873]

how much did you pay for the custom frame?

[@ShadeSpacer]

I've accumulated a few Ti bikes over the years. I own three Lynskey (Chattanooga TN, USA) frames, from a 2009 R230 (sport/racing/touring), to a 2019 Pro Cross (Gravel), to a 2021 R500 (racing). I also have an older hardtail MTB and a track/fixed/single frame, both from Eugene Spicer (Evansville IN, USA). I would characterize all of these frames as being reasonably, if not inexpensively priced; aesthetically pleasing; easily maintained; reasonably lightweight; magically responsive; monstrously indestructible; and wonderously smooth. I've often characterized good-quality Ti frames literally as "heirloom quality" in that they could potentially NEVER wear out. I respectfully disagree with the final comment of the video, implying Ti frames are too pricey. Most Ti frames from Lynskey are far less expensive than most carbon frames I've encountered, and you generally only sacrifice ~500-600 grams in weight savings over a carbon frame that will cost you twice as much and be tremendously fragile by comparison.

[@JWFloyd]

Great video. Really enjoyed hearing an expert talking about the material. I've had my Ti road bike (handmade by T-Lab in Montreal) for a year. I love it. Does it feel so much better than my carbon bike? Maybe, but I think a quality frame of any material with the right setup will ride well. However, the carbon bike snapped in two places despite never having crashed, and (after repair) now sits more or less permanently on the trainer. I had a crash on the Ti bike, and with the exception of a broken derailleur hanger ($20 to replace), there was not a scratch on the bike.

[@natechen534]

A more scientific way to explain why titanium is not used in its pure form is because of its atomic structure. Bonded metallically, the titanium cations form a giant lattice. Layers of titanium cations would slide along each other easily when applied a force, making it easy to bend. When made into an alloy, the cations of other elements like aluminium and vanadium disrupt the organised lattice, making it harder to slide past each other, so it would be stronger when applied force. (Basically highschool chemistry but here u go)

[@emmabird9745]

Tom gave a general feel of relative properties of Al, Ti, Steel but could so easily have said (truly) that the stiffness to weight ratios of all 3 are about the same and the strenght to weight ratios are about the same. Alloying these metals improve the strength to weight ratios but do little for their stiffness to weight ratios.

[@natechen534]

@@emmabird9745 True. Nearly all metals need to be alloyed to improve their strength and durability to make a bike frame.

[@rickmorse3351]

Great discussion. How is Strength measured differently than Stiffness?@@natechen534

[@rickmorse3351]

As I finished writing the above question I realized I could google it - here's what is says: Strength and stiffness are two important properties of metals that are often used interchangeably, but they have distinct meanings and are measured differently. Strength is a measure of a material's ability to withstand an applied force without breaking or undergoing permanent deformation. It is typically measured in units of stress, such as pascals (Pa) or megapascals (MPa). Common tests used to determine the strength of metals include: Tensile test: This test measures the maximum stress a material can withstand before it breaks. The result is reported as tensile strength. Yield strength: This test measures the stress at which a material begins to undergo permanent deformation. The result is reported as yield strength. Stiffness, also known as rigidity or Young's modulus, is a measure of a material's resistance to elastic deformation. It describes how much a material will deform under a given load. Stiffness is typically measured in units of modulus, such as pascals per square meter (Pa·m⁻²) or gigapascals per square meter (GPa·m⁻²). Common tests used to determine the stiffness of metals include: Tension test: This test measures the amount of elongation (strain) a material undergoes under a given load. The result is reported as Young's modulus. Flexural test: This test measures the deflection of a beam or bar under a given load. The result is reported as flexural rigidity. In summary, strength measures a material's ability to withstand stress without breaking, while stiffness measures a material's resistance to elastic deformation. Both properties are important in engineering applications, as they determine how a material will respond to various loading conditions.

[@emmabird9745]

@@rickmorse3351 Yes all true but what your Google failed to tell you is the importance of compression strength (buckling) which is usually the critical parameter in thin walled tubes and is a function of Young's modulus, wall thickness and tube radius.

[@orrinkelso9295]

My titanium bike is16 years old with close to 100,000 miles. I can clean it up and it looks brand new. It is FAR tougher than any carbon bike can be. It is so easy to damage a carbon bike. A titanium bike is not going to be as light as carbon or as aero and it will cost more. But in the long run, it is the only bike for me.

[@bikemike1118]

Great choice! I own a Litespeed XC hardtail since and from 1993 as well…and the thing is great like on day one.

[@ESHANABROOK]

I am still riding my 2010 Habanero bike, just upgraded to SRAM axs and tubeless.

[@grosmince]

My profile picture here is my 1992 Kona HeiHei. I got it new. Raced on it, travelled with it. Converted it, commute with it. Its initial job was to get me through in xc races, and it is still as good as new. Enough said.

[@KA-zq3yp]

I have a titanium Chromag Rootdown. Beyond love it. I can’t say it’s much different from the steel version that I also have owned. It is definitely lighter, more nimble and fun but that is also part of the entire build. I can say that the lack of paint to worry about, looks, and wow factor are why I would never go back. Love ti bikes. Owning one is a very special, rare and unique experience.

[@backpacker3421]

Love Ti for the feel of the ride. I find Al feels flimsy, and steel is way to stiff for me. Ti hits the amazing sweet spot where it is stiff enough to be responsive, but compliant enough to be comfortable. Only the very very best carbon frame I've ever tried felt as natural to ride. There are times where my Ti bike feels almost alive - like it's responding to the road with me. I know that sounds dorky and over the top, but it's true.

[@jamesmedina2062]

that makes sense but by two steel bikes are very supple and the steel is the suspension in mine. I wonder what you rode? The thinner and lighter steels will definitely be bouncier than stiffer profiled Zona frames. Older lugged steel may ride sweetly too.

[@kovie9162]

Doesn't sound weird at all as that's exactly how my Ti bike feels. It feels like the most advanced active suspension on a luxury car, only it does this inherently without sensors or dampers. It just soaks up road vibrations and sends them packing. Never ages or loses any of that. It's basically a miracle material, if fabricated properly. I see no reason to ever replace it, at most I'll get new components but the frame is for life.

[@bikemike1118]

@@jamesmedina2062yes, Steel Frames can offer a very good ride quality as well. Even though titanium is more durable in the long run and NEVER ever rusts or looks old.

[@willjones7132]

I've had 2 full titanium frames; 1 mtb (front suspension), and 1 road (carbon fork), the lasting non painted or coated finish is nice, and the bit of flexibility can be nice too, but at times the flexibility feels a little bit too much like a rubber band; I now have a road bike that the front half is ti and the stays carbon (carbon fork) it's a great combo, it still has a little compliance but the rubber band feeling isn't there, best feeling road bike I've ridden.

[@jamesmcguckin6288]

It sure is, I’ll stick with mine all the way. It always looks like new and it rides beautifully. I like my steelie too 725 cromoly Genesis Equalibrium. A sublime ride. Just a kilo heavier.

[@richardburkholder220]

1993 custom specced beauty built by Tom Kellogg of Breinigsville, PA. Sadly, both he and his Spectrum Cycles have since reached the age where it was time to retire. He would ride km after km with you on back roads and then build it, as the Brits say bespoke. He also built numerous track racing bikes for national and international class racers. Be prepared to wait for a few months -- you won't regret the required wait. It still looks as perfect as it did the day it arrived. Wish I could say the same.

[@chrissumpter3417]

I have 3 titanium bikes. A 97 litespeed ultimate that has been raced, trained on and is now my turbo bike. It has probably done over 100k miles. I have a 2004 litespeed Sienna that has been used extensively for all sorts of riding. Also a 2022 Ribble CGR ti, that has 3 sets of wheels including a set of fat tyre 650b. It will do anything and everything. In terms of comfort, it's impossible to quantify. The two old ones were raced on, and when you're racing, comfort is very low on your list of perceptions, and I raced on 21mm tyres at 120psi. The CGR has 28mm tyres for road and either 34mm or 48mm for off road. It's a very comfortable bike, but no more so than my 92 Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra SLX, which a sublime machine to ride, even on narrow tyres at 100psi+. Compared to my carbon bikes, the ti bikes are way more compliant than my Scott CR1 , which is as stiff as hell, but I have a Parlee Altum that is silky smooth on 25mm tyres, and only weighs 6kg in 58cm. I think comfort is as much to do with wheel and tyre choice as it is to do with frame material.

[@jonathanlaue3460]

I have a 2005 Litespeed Vortex (TdF green jersey winner Robbie McEwen rode one) and fitted out with Zipp 808/ 404 wheel set with Campagnolo Record groupset and 3T carbon fork and bars it rides similarly to my Cervelo P3 Carbon TT bike. A lifetime rocket ship.

[@davidquinn6776]

I have a titanium bike that is 23 years old….I am 6 ft 3, 230 lbs and it has been perfect….so comfortable as well. Also love no paint to scratch….always looks great.

[@CycleForDorian]

I'm surprised how little is being said about cushioning effect of titanium frame. Road vibrations are being lower in titanium bikes than aluminium/steel or even carbon. I had some high end carbon frames and even them can't be compared or have elasticity of this material. Best pick for Audax riders. It took me soo long to discover this and for me its the biggest breakthrough that will actually save my ass and money over time....

[@nixonland]

I've got a titanium gravel and a titanium road bike and they're both "bikes for life" as Tom stated. I absolutely love them both. They will certainly outlast me. No mention was made of the stringent standards required for welding and the incidence of weld defects leading to fatigue cracking. My advice is thrash your bike while it is under warranty, get it inspected, and if clear you should be OK.

[@goatsplitter]

I just bought a lynskey Ti frame today. It's my first Ti, and I'm looking forward to it. Great video in general!

[@Marcel-vv2ft]

I will be the owner of a Van Nicholas Nootau bike in a few weeks, with a Rock Shox SId fork instead of the 'standard' Carbon fork. I will use it as a MTB/Gravel bike. I will come back here...

[@KorbensBum]

Argh, you made me buy a Ti bike. Seriously. I've been thinking about it for months. Immediately after watching this I ordered one.

[@samtatge8299]

Atta boy

[@s.j.5850]

If you want a titanium bike then buy one secondhand (used) & save a lot of money. That is what I did & I got Ultegra components & Mavic wheels with the bike.

[@blankseventydrei]

I got a titanium bike, replacing my PlanetX carbon frame, and I did not pay the Moots price. While it is not as custom as Moots, it is a quality build and so far, I love it.

[@Real28]

For an everyday rider, i think its king. Its not going to be the lightest (thats carbon) but its super strong for its weight and it deals with vibration frequencies way better than steel or aluminum. So for your everyday riding, road or mt bike, if you can afford it, you wont be disappointed. But if you needed raw speed or a triathlon bike, clearly you need to go carbon.

[@brycegracey699]

Such a great overview - thanks GCN and Tom!

[@10ktube]

I had a couple ti bikes over the years. I'm finding, at least from the brands I've tried recently, that they are trying too hard to make it feel like a carbon bike. The oversized tubes, the shapes, it seems like they are trying to get the metal to be stiff so when a consumer jumps on it, they think wow great, but you're losing the magic of titanium (or metal for that matter). It's not a bad thing in some cases to have a nice comfy bike that takes a couple more pedal revolutions to get up to speed, sometimes you want to just spin and enjoy the ride. Probably better to work with a builder than get something off the shelf, to get that magic carpet ride.

[@1JJONES]

If you want a titanium bike, pick one up used. There are several available in my area in the $900-1200 Canadian dollar range.

[@MisterSal9895]

That's what I did

[@ericpmoss]

As Richard Sachs says, “The tubes aren’t the bike, the components aren’t the bike - the bike is the bike.” You can make a great or terrible bike from Ti, steel, Al, or CF. It’s more likely that a one person shop can make a custom steel frame, a bit less likely Ti or Al, but much less likely CF due to tool costs. It’s also more likely that the one person shop can make that custom bike at an affordable price or with constructeur doodads like built-in lighting and racks and mudguards. Since fit comes first, some people will have much better luck with the small builder than hoping Trek or whoever has it in their catalog. The material is less interesting than what a builder is able (and willing) to do with it.

[@bonbonflippers4298]

This! I tell some many people in every material comparisons about carbon, steel titanium discussions. It's not the material but how it was designed and built. It also highly depend on who built it! I've experienced this on so many levels that no one can convince me that 1 material is better than the other as I've ridden some impossible frames that just felt incredible without losing any riding characteristics such as combining comfort and stiffness together on 25c 100psi tires. People say tires make the comfort level but I've ridden frames where those same wheels/ tires felt wayy way better on 1 frame vs another.

[@bikemike1118]

Yeah, but the titanium material has it’s inherent qualities which are indeed the best for several use…like bike frames (especially MTB in my opinion) or other parts for the aeronautical or medical industry. Carbon for example has no inherent qualities at all. It’s ALL and completely what human hands do with it in regards and know how to layering.

[@Jayneflakes]

This was a fascinating video, with some truly interesting insights. Thank you to Alex, Tom and the GCN team behind this.

[@xosece]

the fact that the material can last a lifetime just says to me that it's a good idea to save for a titanium bike and use it forever, as long as I can cycle. A great material to b proud of

[@bikemike1118]

Absolutely

[@ResilientTim]

I absolutely love my Seven Axiom 007 tandem. Its been raced on the road and gravel with 400lb plus teams. The ride quality has been amazing, which I will attribute to the team at Seven more than titanium. like Tom said, it would not take much to build an uncomfortable titanium frame.

[@dakalla]

To bring another material in the bin: I have a stainless steel gravel bike, the Standert Erdgeschoss. I use it as a bike i travel with my van so i just swap wheelsets and use it as a roadbike to. With my road wheelset it rides really nicely, stiff yet comfortable and it is an eyecatcher among all the high end carbon bikes. It has similar geometry to my BMC Teammachine and i can't tell so much difference when riding if im honest.

[@carlosdeno]

Love titanium, just starting a new titanium build for next summer. There’s just something special about how it looks but more importantly for me the ride is smooth and so comfortable. Also the frame I purchased is high end, on rim brakes (my choice) and wasn’t expensive. It was £1000 below recommended list. With respect you can build a top spec bike if you are patient and know where to look for parts, Titanium or Carbon.

[@harimathur2191]

Yes my man!!! Titanium is great. The welding HAS to be done by EXPERTS, not tiny hands in a Chinese factory sticking carbon sheets. Great choice. 😊Well done!

[@JackMott]

when people do blond tests they can no longer feel these “smoothness” differences between bike materials

[@carlosdeno]

@@JackMott 250 miles in 18 hours on a BMC Team Machine compared to the same ride on a Van Nicholas Astraeus. I know the difference.

[@JackMott]

@@carlosdeno lots of people swear they can tell the difference, then can't in a blind test. Also people tend to compare frames while using different wheels and tires and pressures and saddles, and handlebars, and thus are just comparing tires mostly and components a bit. I have ridden a lot of bikes fast and a long way too, doesn't mean my perception is free from human foibles.

[@carlosdeno]

@@JackMott I’d love to witness the blind test, how many miles were ridden exactly? With respect I’m 60 years old, I own steel, stainless, titanium & carbon, if I had to keep one it would be the titanium. Each to their own, we’re all different personalities and our bodies are too.

[@cubatea]

I’ve had my Titsnium Enigma Excel for the past three years and have found I am now totally impervious to all the videos about the latest frames and bikes. Can’t see myself ever buying another bike!

[@KuizinStudio]

and what about recyclling ? is TI as interesting as AL ?

[@grasworxTTGameplan]

there are still LiteSpeed Ti bikes in the peleton here in Trinidad. bulletproof

[@Demy1970]

I have a Litespeed from 1997 (classic model) and a newer one, the 97 probably has 60-70 miles on it, still great

[@MeepBouw]

Nice interview. A crucial element for me is the lifetime-assurance. I own now 3 great titanium bikes, the oldest one is my Litespeed Vortex 2002, still going strong with SRAM Red Etap.

[@JeffersonPereiraCdz]

its a material that I would love to have an bike made of, its a shame that here in Brazil its a lot more expansive, furthermore, there isnt any frame builder here who works with, exactly because of the price of it, and import one, is kind of the cost doesn't good =( (paying double, some times triple of the original price to import one) but its still my dream to have one

[@samtatge8299]

I bought a Litespeed T5, Ultegra mechanical, rim brakes ( I like them more) with 105 wheels for around $4600 USD. There was a sale but I thought that was a reasonable cost. I bought ultegra wheels because…… because. This was 2022.

[@cec732]

very good explanations

[@DonBrandt]

Thanks Alex, great overview. would like to see more like this with close-ups.

[@simoncummins2305]

Hi Alex, can you do a review of steel frames as they too come in different carbon content from different sources?

[@bukowskijr5364]

I love my ti Engima Evade, on 28mm tyres it's so smooth. Really makes country rides a joy. Took it up Zoncolan last year, so it climbs nicely too, although can be springy.

[@kevinbuggie3808]

Recently refreshed my early 90’s titanium Clark-Kent road bike with light carbon wheels and SRAM brakes to handle the 30mm rim width of modern rims. 28mm tires fit fine but 30mm tires would be awfully close. Plush ride with that frame and 50 psi in the tubeless Corsa pros

[@davidcavazos6894]

I have a custom made 2004 Guru bike, recently updated to Campagnolo Chorus 12 speed. The bike is comfortable almost indestructible. Measure size is 58 1/2 (custom made) weights about 17 lbs with petals and water bottle cages.

[@kaktus873]

cheapest Ti bike i found is from decathlon for 3000€.

[@reinholdachleitner2069]

Jaan Kirsipuu rode a Titanium Decathalon.

[@tomasberka2124]

The chainring was a thing of beauty... Thanks for this episode; very good content!

[@mikemazzantini6397]

Bought my first Ti bike in May and absolutely love it!

[@ninjazzrhythm400]

I think the old stainless steel is king. Last forever, never have to worry about cranks like carbon, corrosion like steel and fatigue stress like aluminium. Sadly no one makes them anymore.

[@yonglingng5640]

Too expensive? Then usually what kind of steel is used among the likes of Genesis, Condor, etc.? The steel tubing companies I know of for bicycle frames are Columbus and Reynolds.

[@bikemike1118]

@@yonglingng5640 …looking at the nowadays prices for carbon frames the words „too expensive“ cannot be an argument any more against steel or titanium frames!

[@jazzcatjohn]

Custom Kish Road SL. Built in 2012. Love it!

[@zygmuntthecacaokakistocrat6589]

There's no such thing as a 'lifetime bike'. You buy one, like I did (Ti, but not from Sturdy) and then disc brakes come along, and through axles come along, and electronic shifting comes along, and pretty soon, your 'lifetime' bike is looking pretty old hat. Sic transit gloria mundi.

[@paolomasone3754]

except, in my opinion, that new stuff that comes along isn't necessary

[@GeekonaBike]

I'd like to know how the tubes are drawn & how that differs from ALu & steel if at all

[@bicyclelife7088]

I have steel, aluminum and several carbon mountain bikes. I really want a Titanium hardtail as it allows the style and feel of steel but much lighter.

[@billmontgomerie9526]

A great video. I have a Lynskey titanium bike with all campy group set and wheels. I a joy to ride. Always get stopped by other riders and asked about it. Love it. Hmm maybe I’ll send it to the bike vault . Thanks again for the video.

[@wotexpat9367]

Had Titanium MTB. Hated it. The second I moved onto my Merida Race 0.9 frame I was a good 20% faster. Sold the Ti the second I could. This is not a dig at Ti, but rather my specific bike I had.

[@___Bebo___]

lol no

[@MyPaulclark]

Im waiting on a Bastion to be built. 3D printed lugs with carbon tubing. What a great combo.

[@denisspratt926]

My next bike will be either a titanium or steel frame. Already have a good aluminium and carbon frame so next would be one I don´t have.

[@carl90210]

Reginald Scot is a big fan of titanium. He’s the mechanic who once schooled Hambini on bearing removal.

[@don_sharon]

I have two gravel bikes - one Ti and the other is aluminum. Both have carbon fiber handle bars, wheels and seat posts, as well as 47mm tires. They are like riding on clouds, but I did a lot of research on the geometries and think that means more than the frame material and components. That being said, under power, the AL bike "seems" to be more efficient. Cruising distances, I favor the Ti. For every day rides and taking a bike to an epic ride, it will be the Ti - because it's Ti.

[@barryzajac5502]

My wife has a 1999 Litespeed Tuscany and always loved the way it rode. Unfortunately, after about a dozen years the top of the headtube started to stretch and it was eventually impossible to keep the headset secure and it became unridable. When we contacted the company about a warranty claim, they denied it claiming that it was "normal fatigue" and offered her a modest discount on a new frame. This was Litespeed's early implementation of an "integrated headset" design and the headtube was clearly underengineered, which was a shame because the bike was otherwise awesome. I have had more than one friend experience a cracked tube or split tube seam. Be wary of claims that a titanium frame is forever. On the other hand, I would confidently make that claim for my titanium wedding ring.

[@cyclepath55555]

I've owned a Merlin Agilis road bike for 23 years, 3.25 main tubes and 6.4 seat and chain stays. It will be the last road bike i own. It is comfortable, smooth, stiff where it needs to be and supple as well.

[@edb8120]

Ti is great for frames if the builder is smart enough to use it well. It is good to hear one of the smart ones talking about it. All Ti alloys have issues with fatigue and damage tolerance (a dent that is sharp is often fatal) compared to steel, but much better than Al or Comp. But then Ti can be repaired (I have been there). I would much rather weld Ti than to weld Al. But it does take real skill. It is funny because people can't tell the difference between my Ti frame and my stainless steel frame as they are both bare metal with a matt finish. And they will both last forever.

[@randomUnhold]

It all comes down to the actual build. Conified tubes that combine different strengths and shapes of tubes to alleviate Ti-weaknesses for instance are just as important as the material itself. That's true for all bike materials though, hence the different qualities in carbon bikes. That being said, I have a Ti-Gravel/Endurance bike and love it! It's so smooth to ride and quite nimble, even at 9kg for size L. (Fork and seat post is Ti too)

[@T.I.M.5]

Titanium: defined as a material that the majority of Bike owners/riders cannot AFFORD.

[@bmurray330]

I have a 30 year old Merlin Extra Light with Campy Record that carried my rump from Seattle, WA to Washington, DC and then from the Canadian Border to New Orleans, LA. Fantastic ride, buttery smooth welds, best bike ever. To the average person, it looked like a boring, cheap bike which is what I wanted since other, more colorful, bikes were stolen on the routes. Still looks like new ~20,000 miles, 30 years later, even if I don’t.

[@MrNo____]

This guy is such an engineer. Feels like I’m talking to someone at work lol.

[@DoNuT_1985]

I was expecting some marketing BS talk from somebody on the titanium hype train but was pleasantly surprised that it turned out to be one of the most informative videos/interviews on GCN, ever.

[@jpauldion]

Good info. I am still curious as to which material is better for a gravel fork? Thanx!

[@dan2304]

As a custon frame builder, high end butted titanium frames are awsome but too costly. Ti SG is about 4.7 and steel is 7.8 but the strength to weight is very similar. For about 1/4 the price a high end double butted selected tubing steel frame and fork will be only marginally heavier a similar quality Ti frame. Cheap Ti frames are not worth the cost. The ride quality is very similar due to the steel and Ti tubing having similar strength and elastic properties.

[@cliffthefish]

Yes. Salsa A La Carte mtb , and a Titus gravel which has become my "go to " bike for almost every ride in the last year barring the MTB. It's weightier than my carbon Trek road bike but a lot more enjoyable to ride.

[@tribalypredisposed]

The great thing about titanium is if you can find an older frame with no dents it is just like buying new, for a much lower price. I got a 15 year old Litespeed Owl Hollow frame for $350...makes a great mountain bike.

[@causeandeffect7694]

Yes, Litespeed classic Shimano Dura-Ace 9 speed groupset. Super Team 50mm wheels with Gator Skins 25. Love my Litespeed

[@THR-zf6ti]

This was really in depth and very informative. In Germany we have these freaks of Falkenjagd who also produce high quality Ti bikes - the owner published also good videos but in German

[@SpiritualStuntman]

I had my 2000 litespeed ultimate and my friends carbon guru which is super small on my roof rack as I drove into the garage. The top of the door frame hit my seat and literally yanked off the front mount of my Thule rack. The seat had a little scuff on it and everything was fine 😂 I felt silly but my down tube did not explode 😎

[@dcartier1692]

The only problem with Ti is the rest of the kit (Shimano, SRAM, etc.) - you are likely going to want to rebuild every 10-15 years or so (the exception is a 30+ year old Seven which, bizarrely, came with Campy Record and never seems to wear out; and; of course, a Rohloff on Moots).

[@BearsDenRecords]

Got impatient a bit watching this interview. In my opinion the answers were too long and not direct to the point. but thank you.

[@MrPharmageek]

I've built and ridden a no name titanium road bike for a little over a year now. Classic round tubes. External cable routing. Clearance for 28 mm tires. Brushed finish. She will be my last bike.

[@fergusfitzgerald977]

Learned a lot thanks!

[@kevmak3796]

I've owned a SPA ELAN with Shimano Deore gset for past 3 years . . A bike for life, versatile road, gravel, tourer . . Brilliant. . My last ever bike purchase. I like riding bikes . . NOT spending oodles of cash on them. SPA ELAN =my dream bike !

[@dukabear2640]

Amongst other things, I ride a 20 year old Merlin Works CR (some on here might remember that brand and model) Very comfortable, light enough for me, and not the slightest suggestion of wear and tear (yet!)

[@PeterSdrolias]

I currently own a Specialized Tarmac and Diverge. I love them both but for different reasons. Would love to try a Ti bike from T-Lab. Struggling whether to go for the gravel or road version. Help?!?!?!!!!

[@chainsaw5vent]

Merlin ExtraLight. Built in 1994 with Dura Ace. Switched to a Race Face triple crank when my knees got older and couldn’t push the gears anymore. I still have it…..December 2023.