A New Multiplayer Format for Lorcana | Heroic: A Place to Use Whatever!

[@sh41]

It's more like oathbrealer than commander, I like the storyboard concept. Intriguing

[@mikebandojo3293]

Nice content. I am finding your channel helpful as I start getting into Lorcana. Long time TCG player getting back into TCG after over a decade since I last played.

[@digitalwinter6072]

I had thought of a format similar , with the big difference that your HERO can only be one character with shift and the colors are taken from the cards that said character can change, only being able to enter the game this way, and every time you enter you still pay tax. We will try your rules, it sounds like an excellent option

[@WonderTwin0001]

This sounds awesome! I really thought you CUT OUT your Diablo at 3:58 until I realized the green screen made him invisible!

[@TheInkCast]

Yeah, I noticed it after I finished editing lol. Probably should have went with a non green colored Ally 😁

[@paulferrell2743]

Love your content, thanks for doing it and keep it up!

[@LorcanaFanatics]

Love this video format - and Heroic sounds intriguing!

[@Aerosheik]

Well thought out. Thanks for doing the work!

[@TheInkCast]

Glad you liked it! Can't wait to show it off live!

[@Safyris]

Awesome video, great work!! :D

[@hexcodehijinks]

This is the format I'm most excited to see pop off! I have a few questions/comments. 1. Whenever one of your Storyboard cards would go to the inkwell, assuming it can go to the Storyboard instead? 2. There is no advantage given to someone who would choose one or two colors in this format. Doing so would limit their card pool significantly. Would you consider giving players an advantage if they stuck to one or two colors? In other words, maybe there should be more of a "tax" of sorts to players who add three different colors. This may sound extreme, but I think the tax uptick amount should be 1, 2, and 3 depending on how many different colors are in the Storyboard. 3. Watchlist: Mufasa - Ruler of Pride Rock.

[@TheInkCast]

1. Yes, whenever one of your Storyboard characters were to change to a new area (Discard, Inkwell, Hand) it can instead be put back into the storyboard. But you can choose to send them to the other place instead of the storyboard if desired. 2. We can certainly experiment with that and see if it can work. I do believe once we get to 10 sets or so it could be possible the third color is only used for a couple specific cards and people look at just 1-2 colors. 3. In the description we have 2x cards on the watchlist which is Mufasa as a Hero and Prince John's Mirror in the deck. Mirror in someone's opening hand has felt bad if no one can deal with it in the group early after being played.

[@hexcodehijinks]

@@TheInkCast thanks! Not sure how I missed the Mufasa on the watchlist already. I would say that having access to 50% of the card pool (3 colors) is a huge advantage by set 10 than only having 33% or 16% (2 or 1 colors, respectively). I know Standard doesn’t give any benefit to run mono, but access to 3x colors seems very powerful. Thanks again!

[@LorcanaInkWeII]

We've been playing a similar style at my local shop for months now. We call it shift leader. Your "commander" has to be a floodborn. Decks consist of 3 inks and it's first to 30 lore.

[@TheInkCast]

Nice! I’ve seen quite a few comments around the Hero being a floodborn so we are looking into that as a potential in the future if we find that there isn’t enough diversity in how people select their 3 storyboard cards 😁

[@wandypopculture]

Shift leader is really popular around my area

[@BrighamMike]

ive seen this and i think its better than this..... well whatever this is lol

[@williamdiehl117]

This looks like a really cool idea, with Lorcana being my first TCG (playing since it started) This would be a fun way to play. I would also help those that can't manage to get play sets of some of the top cards. They would be able to use them in the singleton format.

[@legitmeyer]

I am hoping that the official rules for multiplayer come out with the next set.

[@hunterdorriety3380]

Excited to see how this format continues to develop!

[@dizzfuntion]

I like how this is going!! 😎🤘🏽

[@l__eeanne]

I appreciate the thought you put into the format of this video - not as easy as it may appear to be!

[@TheInkCast]

Tnanks! Yeah we have been playtesting for months to see what works and what doesnt. So far it has led us to this and we just hope to make enjoyable content for the viewers. If we find tweaks along the way we will make them to the format but you always have to have a starting point 😁

[@daemonheim7057]

Question, what if you choose your hero/ally/song all from the same colors, can you still have up to three colors, or are you limited to just that color then?

[@TheInkCast]

You are limited to the colors of those cards, so if all 3 of those were the same color then you would have a mono color deck 😁 a side purpose for the cards is to also let your opponents know what colors are in your deck from the start, and potentially what types of synergies you may be working with based on those chosen cards.

[@PathtoGreatness-12]

Could you use Diablo and shift Diablo using the song in your story board. Would it then just increase the cost by one?

[@TheInkCast]

for diablo shift you have to discard a card from your hand, so it couldnt be the one in the storyboard. But your song cost would have gone up by 2 (both diablo's being played) in the old rules. We have had a couple changes which are listed in the discord. But, we have some content coming to the official Heroic channel later this week with the changes plus weekly content coming!

[@endyl473]

Has anyone already built decks in Dreamborn by any chance and could share the links with me? I would like to test them on TTS :)

[@TheInkCast]

I should have all of ours live tomorrow from the live streams as well as posted in the official discord tomorrow... 👀 will be in the description of the video in the morning!

[@mixupmarco]

As a casual EDH player, I love this format for Lorcana. My only concern is that Heroic would end up becoming the main/leading format for the game overall like EDH did with Magic. I got into Lorcana as my first ever competitive TCG and I would love for Standard to grow and develop more before Heroic gets big. I will say that it would be interesting for beginner players as it is both good and kind of bad for them to be exposed to so many cards.

[@petermoerman7475]

As someone who only plays casual EDH and doesn't like competitive formats, i will second this. EDH was always meant as a secondary casual format, and WotC got greedy, stopped play testing, and a number of other mistakes that lead to the death of almost all competitive formats. Now EDH is the main thing propping the entire game of magic up, and that's not a good thing. Primary sales should be driven by the competitive formats, and the casual formats slowly build over time as a natural byproduct of the card base getting bigger. Rule zero is the most important rule in Commander/Heroic/casual formats

[@petermoerman7475]

Although Ravensburger has shown a willingness to learn admit and learn from mistakes, and that gives me hope. As a player, i don't expect every decision to be perfect. I do expect the game maker to be honest with it's player base and be willing to learn from mistakes and adapt

[@petertjealex]

hey there this rule is to expensive. I would rather make a tax for each card separately than 1 tax for everything because then you can keep singing your song with your commander. (5. Ink Tax = I am still working through the name of this but essentially each time you cast one of the 3 special cards you will add 1 to the tax amount. This means each time you play one of these cards the cost will be the cost of the card + the tax amount. Example: If you play your Hero then your Song or Ally will cost 1 additional ink when played next. This is cumulative and shared so it will grow each time you use these cards.)

[@ultimayagamer2172]

I Love this Idea. I played Commander in Magic too ❤

[@markp7262]

As a long-time player of EDH in Magic, I love the premise for this. I just hope that it doesn't turn into the next cEDH. I'm already getting ideas for some decks, though I'll have to wait to build until I hit the next Lorcana event at my LGS, to see if anyone here is interested. I was about ready to list some of my ideas, but decided that I didn't want to give away my secrets yet. 😁😁😁

[@TheInkCast]

lol. Yeah we want to make sure there are fun things and the best part about lorcana is that it is very hard to win in a single turn like cEDH has. There are some strong things and this was another reason AWNW got the ban from being your iconic Song... being able to have Jafar as your legendary and having this be able to be played at any time was way too strong ontop of annoying as everyone just loses the cards in their hand every turn

[@markp7262]

@@TheInkCast I wish the storyboard could be your choice of hero or villain plus your choice of ally or mentor, but then there are a few powerful mentors that might cause issues (legendary Merlin/Mufasa/Mufasa).

[@JeeseJames]

Heroic Hype! I'm ready, I've pulled all 100 cards for a deck, was barely an inconvenience

[@Sandstreams]

definitely gonna keep an eye on this format, looks like it'd be a great way to mix up the standard 1on1 to avoid burnout

[@TheInkCast]

That's the plan for us too! I love lorcana and it’s just another way to play with friends 😍

[@davidbreulj7046]

Interesting, looking forward to try it, just gotta find 3 friends first ;)

[@JeanLukulele]

I was like, Man, this sounds fun with Jazar Illusionist! Imagine bringing Jafar out and being able to sing a Whole New World twice! It’s gonna be… And the only card we don’t allow is A whole New World. Never mind 😂

[@JeanLukulele]

Can I sing the song over and over in one turn if I have enough ink?

[@TheInkCast]

yep, you sure can 😁 it just cost 1 more each time

[@TheInkCast]

yeah, this was a combo Brad decided to use, and it was a big factor in the Banning (limiting) the card from being an iconic song and only being allowed in the 97.

[@JeanLukulele]

@@TheInkCast that’s fair. Maybe Jafar and Alan-A-Dale. There’s not a lot of good steel songs though. But if you have both Jafar and Alan, then singing songs that draw you cards get you a bunch of lore. Oh, another question, can I ink the cards in my story bored?

[@xanderheeler402]

I've had a few ideas for it. 1 thing I came up with that I liked the idea of it was that your 1 lore stat characters could either quest for 1 or could take 1 lore away from a player. Id like to see that maybe implemented, possibly

[@TravsPackPulls]

Can’t watch the video right now, is there a spot where the rules are written to read?

[@TheInkCast]

Just added them to the Description 😍 We are working on a discord area to host all of this as well soon

[@poolsidebecca]

If you sing the song from the storyboard is it banished now or does it stay on the storyboard and it can be used many times? Also, I would love to see a video version of explaining this game for visual learners and see what the card setup looks like.

[@TheInkCast]

once it is sung it will go back to your storyboard area so you can sing it again whenever you have enough ink. It just adds 1 more to the ink tax so the next time you were to try to use it (play or sing) it will cost 1 more to do. We are playing live tonight so I will be explaining while we play and i am working on a follow-up "rules/how to play" video as well 😁

[@LSPTaris]

Turn 7 Be Prepared, turn 8 Be Prepared, turn 9 Be Prepared, turn 10 Be Prepared, turn 11 Be Prepared...... turn 28 Be Prepared

[@TheInkCast]

It’s something we are watching… but also means you lose to a simple location

[@JDdblH]

Great content!

[@WilliamBush-r2t]

This is a pretty neat idea

[@stevebraun7379]

I will have to try this at my local.

[@tommymila]

Have you tested it yet?

[@TheInkCast]

We have tested for a couple months now. We had our first live episode this past Wednesday on stream! We plan to play it live every Wednesday and highlight different members of the Lorcana community 😁

[@tureyhall]

As an Ariel stan, the legendary restriction makes me very sad. Hopeful that you'd loosen the restrictions a bit so that my dream of an Ariel / Sebastian / Under the Sea deck could be a reality.

[@tureyhall]

You should change the restriction to "Legendaries or Cards with an Enchanted printing". It opens up a ton more deckbuilding options. Right now Your format doesn't allow people to play Simba, Aladdin, or Ariel, which is a huge percentage of the disney catalog by popularity.

[@tureyhall]

Also for Sing Together songs, it makes sense to count your ally as well when determining if you can choose that song.

[@petermoerman7475]

Since "legendary" is not a card type, how is it being defined? I character card that is legendary rarity?

[@TheInkCast]

this is correct, again as of now... We may look at something like "Floodborn" which has been suggested but even there you only have so many characters that are represented with that subtype... so we will be looking at this over time if it needs to be a subtype rather than a rarity of the card.

[@reflexes913]

After watching your video I immediately made two decks of Heroic and played with my GF. Hope one day this will be official

[@TheInkCast]

That’s awesome! It’s new so I’m sure there will be more tweaks as we play more but it has felt pretty solid and is a ton of fun

[@HammerMTG-t8l]

can you play 3 colors if you story board is 3 different colors

[@TheInkCast]

exactly! You get to use the colors of your storyboard in your deck. So if all 3 are different colors you can have those colors in your deck. If you doubled up on a color between those 3 cards then you may only use the 2 colors represented by your storyboard 😁

[@davidrojas6457]

Interesting, although it feels like reducing the starting hand to 5 is probably the right call here.

[@lorcana_brando]

HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE 🔥🔥🔥

[@whatsgood123]

And watch Lorcana grow ❤

[@Voldo54]

I was just talking with players at my lgs about something similar. My idea was any character could be your hero/commander and you could only play colors if the character had a version in that color plus 1 extra of your choice. For example it you choose Beast-relentless, you could play steel/ruby/emerald + another color. say you choose Maui, you could play ruby/steel/+color because Maui only has versions in those 2 colors. Other than that the ink tax as you put and special spot on the board for said hero was the same. This version though is nice as it expands the concept. Not sure I like being able to have "be prepared" available so easy each turn after playing it once.

[@TheInkCast]

it sounds scary to have a board wipe available at any time but what we found was the person playing that literally had to waste an entire turn to do it as the ink tax kept it going up. So they could but then they would be losing on board to locations and other things as they kind of just kept time walking themselves. It is a card we are keeping an eye on though incase it needs to have the same fate as AWNW

[@TheInkCast]

I also like the idea of how you pick your commander. Only thing that kept us from doing it a different way is that we wanted the ink identity to be visible from the start and at all times. So in your scenario the player would need to know the multiple printings and someone with a favorite character may not be able to use that as a commander because it is only printed in 1 color (Mim as an example) and only get 2 colors compared to others with 4-5 colors. I am interested in trying the format though to see how it plays 😍

[@Voldo54]

@TheInkCast yeah makes sense being able to see what colors your playing. My idea was a spur of the moment after watching 2 players facing each. One with blue/steel and the other blue/red, each playing almost the same blue cards. Then after bringing the idea up most of the play group was interested in having some kind of multi player night.

[@jsturm5hk8h]

Gateway Token

[@arcyes4327]

Good job

[@lareyaokeson2295]

I can’t take my eyes off the art behind you! Where is it from please?

[@TheInkCast]

Found it online through some AI tools. My daughter said she wished my office looked like that for real 😆

[@lareyaokeson2295]

@@TheInkCastwait omg it’s not a real background? I was so in love! Impressive background!

[@DARKFORCE110]

Im all for a multi-player version

[@MartyGeorge]

Interesting format...not sure about that tax

[@TheInkCast]

It’s needed so you can’t just keep playing your storyboard over and over. And with it being shared tax it makes you have to prioritize what you are using and when 😁

[@mikeleonard8521]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm very interesting. I will need to watch this several more times to fully understand the nuance. Can a sing together song be your iconic song? I'm guessing yes as it didn't sound like 'be prepared' was a problem. i'm interested :-). Would love to see some game play

[@TheInkCast]

yep! just like Shift giving an advantage for the Hero, we are allowing Sing together cards as your Iconic Song. We will see if it becomes a problem in the future but since they are still taxed it hasnt been a problem yet! Cant wait to showoff game play live tonight with our friends 😍 We will also post a followup video of the gameplay tomorrow or Friday as well 😁

[@stevenclaes6470]

Maybe you could call the ink tax your "scene counter" as it goes up everytime one of those cards is in the scene

[@TheInkCast]

I like that 😁 I am 100% going to be toying with some of the names of things to fully theme it like Lorcana has done. This has my brain going for sure!

[@Bored_Barbarian]

5:24 eh not a fan of the shared commander tax.

[@TheInkCast]

We tried it per card and shared... shared seemed alot simpler to understand and elss to keep up with which is the reason we went that way.

[@UkumaOokami]

I posted a very similar idea (almost exactly the same minus the ally) to the Lorcana sub reddit and got eaten alive there. everyone hated it and pretty much told me to quit Lorcana. the main difference between mine and this was that the song would have 3 counters on it and every time the song was cast it would lose one counter. once there are no counters on the song it would be discarded for good. BUT singing the song with the hero you chose to start with doesn't remove counters. so songs wouldn't have any tax but are in theory limited. the other main difference is instead of the main hero being a legendary requirement, it is a flood born requirement. this I think makes the format feel even more unique to Lorcana and gives your hero the ability to sing the song right out of the gate

[@RegaliaKeyboards]

Floodborn makes more sense than limiting to a specific rarity as that just feels bad honestly

[@TheInkCast]

Yeah, there are alot of anti-commander people out there that hate anyone trying to make a commander like format in Lorcana... We are experimenting with it but it has been fun to play something different with cards that dont get used as often. I like playing competitive but there are only so many games I can play seeing the same 3-4 decks.

[@TheInkCast]

It is something we will note to keep an eye on in the future. Legendary made it easy because there are typically an equal number printed in each color every set and are guaranteed to grow each new set

[@RegaliaKeyboards]

@@TheInkCast that isn’t *quite* true, as Sapphire technically has 1 less legendary character as Lucky Dime was one of the legendary cards for Sapphire in set 3, and they could easily put other items or songs into the legendary slot in the future. There is an equal amount of floodborns printed for each ink in each set, and we have gotten at least 2 floodborns per ink in every set so far. I also don’t see them moving away from floodborn characters in the future as shift is a mechanic I don’t see them ditching. Maybe a combo of the two would be good? It can either be a Floodborn or a legendary? Almost feel like this makes sense overall

[@lorcanaPT]

I think I saw that. It's a bit of anti-Commander/MTG hate, and the fact these formats are so similar to Commander. Like people have this expectation that Multiplayer Lorcana has to be as different from Commander as it can possibly be. Which it doesn't, it just has to be a good format that fits Lorcana. There are too many cards that actually meaning Opponents (plural), so I'm sure RB has something in mind. That said, I'd be willing to try this out, although I like the Floodborn idea more than simply Legendary rarity.

[@crazysquriel]

Banning cards in a format for a game with 5 packs is not a good sign that it is a good format. Starting the game with 11 cards is broken. Being able to start the game with synergy or combos already in your hand defeats the purpose of a singleton format and is unbelievably broken, especially when you get them forever and no one can do anything about it. Not like this game has interaction like counters. A commander format sounds fun and I'd be more than willing to participate, but this format ain't it.

[@TheInkCast]

no problem, it wont be for anyone. Also the card is only banned from being in the storyboard and being recurring. It can certainly be played in the other 97 cards.

[@crazysquriel]

​@@TheInkCast ​ Yeah, but that's the thing, I'm all for a commander format. I'd be happy to play it, but this isn't that. There's other ways to restrict deck building besides giving you 3 guaranteed cards in your starting hand, in addition to the full 7 plus draw, that you can play forever. Even just making the hero the only one you can recur would have been at least better, but still a problem. Also, banning AWNW is actually kinda funny to me. It's really biased that you simply say it's not fun when its a fair card. Wouldn't even be the most broken steel song to stick in the "I can play this card forever" slot. Removal like Strength or Zeus would probably perform better. Even Storm Rage On would be really strong, especially with a Commander like Ursula DoA. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to just be negative about everything and say everything is bad. I enjoy and even share your enthusiasm with this. I just want to iron out all of the kinks before trying to make this an official format because I actually want a commander format to succeed and not drive potential players away from trying the format in the future if it's not up to par on their first try. I feel like your heart is in the right place and it's not a bad start, but there needs to be some serious changes imho. Giving players 3 extra cards that they can play forever to start the game just isn't good no matter how you look at it. This format is essentially everyone playing 3 colors, so why not just make that the rule instead of giving 2 extra commander cards? Just have players declare what colors they're playing at the beginning of a game or even use token indicators or colored dice or something. You've also made every hero that can shift immediately better than any that can't by simply getting to cheat them in play, even with the restriction of needing the character to shift onto. If shift can be effected by cost reduction then it should also be effected by cost increases. I think as a community we should take a page out of MTG's playbook and create a committee of seasoned TCG players that can hammer out the final product and serve as a central figure for people to reach out/look to for questions and rulings (such as a ban list). There would need to be serious data collection on cards and how they're performing/effecting games before just saying they're banned. Transparency would also be important since this would be an entirely community driven project and committee. Overall, I'm happy you're trying to create intrigue for a commander format and want this to catch on, but I don't think this should be the final version of the format. This has been something I've been working on myself and am happy to see others wanting to enjoy a multiplayer singleton format of this game. It even has card designs ready for this type of format. So I hope this didn't come across as me just hating on your idea.

[@Illumineerkingdom]

I'm gunna buy out the Puppy market...

[@TheInkCast]

I mean… MTG cards that have that text are all worth something 😆

[@duelistacademy2014]

I think for the songs. If I have a 3 cost character a 3 cost song and a tax of 1. The 3 cost charchrer should be able to sing and I just pay the extra 1.

[@TheInkCast]

We have tested that some and it still felt broken with cards like Be Prepared or other removal songs like Be King UnDisputed. It allowed for the removal spell to be sung multiple times in a turn and literally every turn because of the heavy reduction. Not saying if we get enough feedback we change it, but based on our testing over a couple months it made some cards a bit too powerful and annoying

[@calebfaltinowski7473]

Does the song go back to the storyboard? If so the songs should definitely not go back to the story board. Oath Breakers in mtg is tge same as this but with a signature spell, the character could be used multiple times, with an increasing cost if the die, the song just gets discarded.

[@themathiasP]

Is this for the giveaway?

[@TheInkCast]

Every video you comment on is an entry! 😍

[@DadGamerLife]

It is just commander with extra steps

[@jsturm5hk8h]

What do all Disney movies have in common? Dead parents

[@TheInkCast]

Man, I wish I would have thought about that for the video 😆

[@thefallenmonk605]

We did this at 60 cards and your main character being a Floodborn.

[@TheInkCast]

We saw some of those formats posted before and liked pieces of it. We just really wanted it to feel "Disney" so we went with the 3x cards which also helped determined how to make all 3 colors known to your opponents from the start

[@stevenclaes6470]

​@@TheInkCastdoes this mean that if your story board only consist of one oe two colors you can only play that one or those two colors? For example, i have purple jafar, friends on the other side, and green iago, i can only play purple and green?

[@Mehlhaff]

Some make a lot of money. Not so much lately for some strange reason absolutely no one can place at all.

[@petertjealex]

how about Sing Together rules

[@TheInkCast]

They work as intended. If you were to use a Hero big enough to solo sing a sing together song then that could be your Iconic Song. Then when you sing it you would pay the total cost (song cost + ink tax) and you could sing it with multiple characters

[@calebfaltinowski7473]

Bring back og bucky!😂

[@TheInkCast]

Just imagine him as an ally and a solid floodborn deck 😆

[@kyleb7047]

🤦🤦🤦 Every clown and their mother trying to come up with the next 'EDH/Commander' in a different card game /shrug.

[@Gafweebo]

Is there a less cringe presentation of how the format works?

[@TheInkCast]

I’ll make you one next week 😁

[@petermoerman7475]

Also can we please learn from WotC mistakes and if we're going to copy Commander, copy old school commander, not the crap from recent years

[@ShadowJFX]

Its much too soon in this games life cycle to split game store groups by creating a new format. Should it become official this early into the game it will be the ruination of the packs as we get even less proper playables and cards suited only for such a format.

[@TheInkCast]

I get what you are saying. It’s obvious RB is looking at a multiplayer format in the near future, they even mentioned it at D23 so I don’t think there will need to be cards specifically for this type of game play… just more “opponents” type cards which already have a ton of, even back to set 1. It’s just another way to play if you don’t want to do the 1v1 meta bet deck grinding is all 😁

[@Deathkeeper43]

Awful idea imo. 3 cards extra outside the game is bad news bears.

[@TheInkCast]

To each their own, others seem to be finding it fun 😁

[@sdgaara2]

Gross ai

[@BrighamMike]

over produced. like waay to much going on. just remake oathbreaker OR commander not both combined.

[@zeb760]

Equal parts terrible trying to make Lorcana commander and this video pitch meeting.

[@philippwilling9852]

Im sorry but comander in Lorcana isnt possibel because of the none coloring Option. They try to get more Pepole but they should just start whit building a good 1vs 1 game and not do this shit. Ill Think this could be the Downfall for Lorcana. Commander allready exist we dont need a worst version of Commander. 1 Year experience whit a Card game vs now a Company whit more than 30 Years is a shit gamble.