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A Practical Skill for Defusing Anger with Marsha Linehan

  Рет қаралды 190,864

NICABM

NICABM

7 жыл бұрын

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Anger is a normal (and often necessary) emotion.
But when tempers flare and rage ensues, our clients’ relationships suffer, their stress levels skyrocket, and reactivity simply takes over.
So how can people shift out of anger once the fuse is lit?
Hear more from Marsha Linehan, PhD, Stephen Porges, PhD, Peter Levine, PhD and others in the short course "Practical Skills for Working with a Client's Anger" - www.nicabm.com...

Пікірлер: 119
@taliafornari9386
@taliafornari9386 4 жыл бұрын
God bless her. DBT saved my life.
@hollyhobbles4790
@hollyhobbles4790 Жыл бұрын
I'm just finding this . I need to heal so much
@tiredfrog308
@tiredfrog308 2 жыл бұрын
To say that Marsha is inspiring is an understatement. DBT gave me a second chance at a self-determined life, and for that I am forever grateful.
@Mamalani4
@Mamalani4 7 жыл бұрын
I have had terrible rage since brain tumour surgery December 13, 1999. The tumour is gone but this terrible and terrifying rage has been like standing under Niagara Falls and no way to turn it off. Frustration and having my disabilities criticized and I go ballistic. The Limbic (emotional centre) among 5 other primitive areas were essentially amputated and the further damaged by post op brain swelling that paralyzed the left side of my face and right side of my body for 7 weeks and then Meningitis and then Osteomyelitis and two more surgeries to remove infected skull. 18 months of hell. A few minutes ago I was at the beginning of temper//rage flare -up and I tired Willing Hands and it defused the rage. I'll wait longer next time - when I feel I'm about to go ballistic I'll do Willing Hands again. Thank you SO Much. My first real hope in 17 YEARS at controlling and aborting these rages that happen several times a day. When nothing is easy and nothing is easy with brain damage - I'd go ballistic. I live alone so not many know about this.
@Dr.Pepper001
@Dr.Pepper001 4 жыл бұрын
Aren't you the one who gave me the one-fingered salute the other day when I cut you off in traffic?
@SparklySarah
@SparklySarah 3 жыл бұрын
@@Dr.Pepper001 🤣 LMAO
@SparklySarah
@SparklySarah 3 жыл бұрын
Dude I am so moved by your story. I get severe rages especially during migraine attacks. And I have BPD too. Willing hands is a lifesaver.
@SirGregg
@SirGregg 2 жыл бұрын
I know what you mean. I have brain damage and get an anger that lingers deep in my body for hours and can ruin any day. I will wake up after 4 hours sleep and get angry that i cant get back to sleep. I hope willing hands is my remedy.
@TomeRodrigo
@TomeRodrigo 2 жыл бұрын
Sorry to hear about your struggle. From your comment I kind of get that rage and anger comes from reptilian part of the brain as you were saying that your limbic brain was taken out or something.
@elainegillespie1834
@elainegillespie1834 2 жыл бұрын
What can l say? Without your work and dedication to find a way to manage BPD more people with this condition would have killed themselves. I had BPD for 10 years before being diagnosed and allocated to a wonderful human being who chose to be a Dilectical Behavioural Therapist. l did'nt believe l could recover from this hellish condition. l now have hope and belief that l can now build a life worth living. Thankyou, your are my hero.
@Mamalani4
@Mamalani4 7 жыл бұрын
This Willing Hands is amazing -- for me with my brain damage it does stop the anger - the terrible ballistic rage that scares me so badly. The downside is that what I'm left with is the terrible hurt that was hiding under the rage. I end up in tears - no anger but all the rejection, all the criticism, all the isolation because I'm still not 'better' even 17 years after the brain tumour surgery. It's as if I'm expected to be able to regrow the parts of my brain that have been essentially amputated. And all those hurts are what fuelled the rage. I know a great PhD hypnotherapist - a friend from years ago - when she gets back from Hawaii I'll see about flying her here for a couple of days work. I have not responded normally to any therapy techniques that have been tried during this 17 year struggle but Bonnie is inventive and creative and has quite a 'tool box'.
@koalamama2
@koalamama2 6 жыл бұрын
Oh my gosh =( I read both of your comments and they're making me cry. Maybe Dr. Robert Morse could help you; I haven't heard of a condition he couldn't cure. He has a channel here on KZbin. Also I know certain medicinal mushrooms like Lion's Mane have been proven to grow new neurons. I really hope you get better. 🙏
@aaronfarkas6890
@aaronfarkas6890 4 жыл бұрын
Mamalani4 .....Hi - I just read both of your replies...Thanks for sharing...How are you feeling now? My wife and I have a friend who had brain surgery over a yr.ago. At times, she can be very intense, and becomes idifficult to have a “normal” conversation. She’s brilliant and was already intense before the operation. We don’t blame her, as she comes from a very emotionally abusive parents, plus the brain damage from surgery. Having said that, she’s always had pets in her home...either a dog or a cat...and they have always been a source of great comfort, joy and companionship ...was wondering what your thoughts are about getting one, assuming you don’t have one. Good luck. 🍀🤓📈
@SirGregg
@SirGregg 2 жыл бұрын
The hurt that was under the rage could be from childhood emotional neglect. Its a real thing that can impact a child for the rest of its life. If you felt unsafe in your surroundings as a child or had a poor relationship with a parent there could be a childhood emotional wound lingering that needs to be addresses.
@Brittney1986
@Brittney1986 2 жыл бұрын
This wonderful brilliant woman saved my life. I’m not exaggerating.
@swapnild.3052
@swapnild.3052 3 ай бұрын
How
@nobodyimportant428
@nobodyimportant428 6 жыл бұрын
This really works. I can feel the tension/energy lift off me when I do willing hands.
@earthpearl3790
@earthpearl3790 6 жыл бұрын
It's miraculous . . . very effective!
@catc8927
@catc8927 2 жыл бұрын
Willing hands is how I’m able to drive with much less road rage now. I do it with one hand while the other hand is on the wheel.
@ysokmen
@ysokmen 4 жыл бұрын
My clients find this very helpful. Thank you Dr. Linehan.
@tmosest
@tmosest Жыл бұрын
Very true… also having a willing soul! It’s hard for me to be angry when I’m helping my neighbors and friends.
@TheSexHealer
@TheSexHealer 5 жыл бұрын
Quick, effective. LOVE THIS!
@relax.meditate.wellness
@relax.meditate.wellness 3 жыл бұрын
What a great technique for managing anger. Thank you!
@zepirothhong3160
@zepirothhong3160 Ай бұрын
Thank you Marsha. I have a serious problem on controlling anger.
@katejones9575
@katejones9575 Жыл бұрын
Forever grateful for Marcia's work in both ground breaking coping DBT strategies and for bringing BPD out in the open which was always in the shadows and often even dismissed amongst the mental health physicians as a condition to hard to treat or understand and from my personal experiences with some working as psychiatric practitioners even demonising patients as to troublesome and even acting out as attention seeking just as a naughty tantrum throwing bad behaving child only interested attention seeking gratification ignoring even the most statistics that borderline is the number one suicide resulting in deaths I lost my younger sister to it even one of her mental health workers looking after her at hospital saying too me that her problem was with vodka and nothing else. Not being treated as others who suffer from more clinical depression and
@strafrag1
@strafrag1 6 жыл бұрын
Thank you, doctor. I am going to try this the next time I'm watching Trump. Cheers and best wishes. Peter.
@phylr3983
@phylr3983 5 жыл бұрын
You may need a couple shots of bourbon in those willing hands.😉
@synesthesia251
@synesthesia251 Жыл бұрын
Like Biden and his Klauss Schwab regime is sooo much better?! Idiot
@JayaKGH
@JayaKGH 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you Marsha! I will be taking DBT soon, thank you for all your knowledge!
@tater760
@tater760 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you. So simple and effective. I love it.
@gailmedland9439
@gailmedland9439 3 жыл бұрын
It would be really good to know when this video was made for citing purposes, thanks
@MrRosiesfavorites
@MrRosiesfavorites 4 жыл бұрын
the hardest part is convincing them that not getting angry is in their best interest. if someone mistreats me why am I the one trying to stay calm? the answer to that would be helpful to me
@gurusik
@gurusik 4 жыл бұрын
MrRosiesfavorites It would be about acting effectively, not letting your emotion get you to act in a way that would be unhelpful. It’s also important to accept and validate your emotion, not get rid of it
@martharigby
@martharigby 2 жыл бұрын
anger is bad for your physical and emotional health! It's also often bad for your relationships. Diffusing you own anger can be a gift to yourself, the other person, and the situation. It also hides what we're really feeling, so diffusing anger can help you figure out what emotion your anger is covering up...just some thoughts :)
@EstherGromov
@EstherGromov 2 жыл бұрын
I think anger is useful to alert us that someone has crossed a boundary, but once it's served that purpose, you can let it go and strategically deal with the situation. Calm, direct communication of consequences of they continue with the behavior... Is my best guess. I don't really know.
@Raminakai
@Raminakai 2 жыл бұрын
That is a great question! What I suggest is that after you acknowledge that someone has said something mean, hurtful etc. by diffusing your anger, calming the nervous system down, you can use oxygen that opens up your prefrontal cortex to make a creative and healthy response that empowers you- instead of taking in someone else’s negative and critical input. You don’t want their, “dark stuff “ on or in you! Your being in control of your anger response gives you the choice to react the way you want. For instance, that young lady could have said, “ Wow, that was mean.” In a calm and collected voice. Or, “ I wonder why you would say something so mean?” And just leave it there. Often these people who are twisted up inside , have a lot of anger ongoing in them, wait for someone the think is powerless to strike at.
@k-counseling7289
@k-counseling7289 6 жыл бұрын
Great suggestion to calm oneself. Great I’m teaching a group of realtors how to deal with angry clients next week.
@whatever3145
@whatever3145 Жыл бұрын
Lmao cool. So this is really just trivial shallow bs and they're trying to say it'll fix me as a human being. Sadistic really
@deepalipimpale309
@deepalipimpale309 9 ай бұрын
We want more videos like this
@GabrielBolkosky
@GabrielBolkosky 3 жыл бұрын
I love this woman
@MizrahiChick
@MizrahiChick 4 ай бұрын
Many pray like this .
@astridjaye6224
@astridjaye6224 3 жыл бұрын
I think I need more. I did 6 months years back. Emotional and physical health issues are preventing me from doing much, hardly can sleep even with medicine:( Heard of ice abs half smile but I don’t recalls this one. Will try
@annadillingham7202
@annadillingham7202 7 жыл бұрын
I will try this, with my clients and myself!
@timothysmith7888
@timothysmith7888 5 ай бұрын
So interesting. Of course, for "willings hands" to have even a chance at working, requires that the person actually knows that they are angry. Is anger ever a feature of a PTSD trauma response? If Anger is what triggers and fuels the trauma response, and the trauma response is off and running before the individual has a clue that they are experiencing anger, how much of a long-shot is it that they will even have a remote chance of "practicing 'Willing Hands' "? Unless I am misunderstanding it, "Willing Hands" is an action that depends entirely on being self-aware in the moment, and responding to that awareness by making a cognitive choice. Doesn't that require Executive Function? And, during a PTSD Trauma Response isn't the very first thing that happens is that part(s) of the brain where Executive Function occurs are IMMEDIATELY shut down, and taken off-line? So, how does one get anyone in a trauma response to "Willing Hands"? How is it ever, neurologically possible to "Practice Willing Hands"?
@nobodyimportant428
@nobodyimportant428 6 жыл бұрын
I've heard of this before. I will try it. Thanks
@lestudio76
@lestudio76 2 жыл бұрын
Why diffuse it? Maybe it needs expressing
@tnt01
@tnt01 Жыл бұрын
yes, but there is a time and a place.
@deanjoseph123
@deanjoseph123 4 жыл бұрын
How does sitting with your hands on your knees or standing - palms up...diffuse a person's anger? Didn't work for me unfortunately.
@SharonVeeLee
@SharonVeeLee 4 жыл бұрын
It's body language. Opening the hands in a receiving, welcoming gesture can help the brain feel the same. Not necessarily feel anger-free but lessen it. I hope that helps.
@aaronfarkas6890
@aaronfarkas6890 4 жыл бұрын
@Dean Joseph .... Hi Dean...like any other skill; practice practice practice... I find that the hard part is, feeling frustrated it didn’t work the first time around...I like instant results... don’t you ¿ Good luck.
@anareachi5229
@anareachi5229 4 жыл бұрын
I adore you Marsha
@maggiemiddleton8760
@maggiemiddleton8760 2 жыл бұрын
Will practice it for sure
@martinlocante5441
@martinlocante5441 2 жыл бұрын
What is the technique used to convince someone they don’t want to be angry? (Thank you for willing hands, wonderful!!!)
@Gary1911A1
@Gary1911A1 5 жыл бұрын
Similar to Mountain Pose in yoga.
@Gigiaaron56
@Gigiaaron56 7 жыл бұрын
Willing hands is essentially turning the other cheek. Taught by Jesus Christ through the Bible, who dealt with A LOT of angry people (and demons). I'd like to think of it as His Hands over the situation. God bless!
@MsFunnybags
@MsFunnybags 6 жыл бұрын
Ugh.
@lz56able
@lz56able 6 жыл бұрын
Yes, believe in Christ as Savior, to take the wrath for your sins, and you too will have eternal life!
@Bluelightcheaphotel
@Bluelightcheaphotel 6 жыл бұрын
Somebody actually wrote "ugh". Haha. Good for you in exercising your free speech and talking about your faith, especially in this venue. If you would have said this coping strategy reminds you of a popular teacher who identifies as transgender, you'd likely get people applauding and tearing up with joy. But Jesus?? Ugh. Hahaha. Thanks, It's actually refreshing.
@azoor5881
@azoor5881 Жыл бұрын
@@Bluelightcheaphotel it’s the self-righteous right-wing Christians who try to use the government to force their beliefs on others and act very much like the Pharisees that Jesus criticized that make people say “ugh.” But Jesus never said to act like these modern day Pharisees.
@KaylaMarie-ox8le
@KaylaMarie-ox8le 7 ай бұрын
It doesn't have to be. You can also use it, and then communicate in a nonaggressive way. It's up to anyone what they do with it.
@rubyanaya126
@rubyanaya126 Жыл бұрын
Thank You ☺️💟😊💞😊💞😊😊❤️
@molestedmango
@molestedmango 4 жыл бұрын
How does one remember to do willing hands when one is in the throes of anger and one truly believes one's anger is justified
@MrRosiesfavorites
@MrRosiesfavorites 4 жыл бұрын
i kinda asked that question myself. in the video, she states that one needs to accept that not getting angry is in their best interest. that really is the hardest part of it? especially when you believe your anger is justified and there is a pay off TO YOU. however, i believe the answer would be a pay off to all parties involved not just you or me. guess we both need to do some major work. i would prefer to be that calm person in the room than the rager.
@molestedmango
@molestedmango 4 жыл бұрын
@@MrRosiesfavorites so would I... I have found myself doing willing hands more often lately. Sometimes I forget but sometimes I remember. `\o/`
@MrRosiesfavorites
@MrRosiesfavorites 4 жыл бұрын
choco cat, you are way ahead of me then. I am too old to change now. I just accept who I am. sometimes that is better than beating myself up. I still get angry but I do not rage as much anymore. a lot has to do with my husband [who is my trigger] not needing to get the last word in. I am assuming you are a woman. as women, we are brainwashed into believing anger is taboo behavior for us females. so is it rage or anger? there's a big difference. don't be too hard on yourself .we can only do the best we can. no one is perfect.
@molestedmango
@molestedmango 4 жыл бұрын
@@MrRosiesfavorites hmm my psychologist would probably give you a shocked look for saying you're too old to change
@MrRosiesfavorites
@MrRosiesfavorites 4 жыл бұрын
@@molestedmangoCat, and I would tell your psychologist I'm too old to care. : )
@iamaliveyoucantstopnow
@iamaliveyoucantstopnow 5 ай бұрын
Why is it good to lose your anger? Anger is an important energy!!!
@PriyaMomma
@PriyaMomma 5 ай бұрын
Because you can say things that permanently affect others for which no apology works. You can break or damage things that can’t easily be repaired or replaced. You could take your own life. Anger itself is an emotion you should feel, but like any emotion, it can’t be allowed to become overwhelming or out of control. Even out of control happiness is not healthy.
@nancyhambly9490
@nancyhambly9490 12 күн бұрын
Think it would be impossible to actually loose all your anger. What’s happening here is how to control or dampen down anger when needed or when the person wants to. It’s not about just taking all anger away, which is not possible anyway.
@DiabeticNichole
@DiabeticNichole 3 жыл бұрын
I am wanting to do this I find that in the moment of anger I struggle to calm down and have willing hands. What can I do?
@stacey855
@stacey855 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much for sharing! ❤️
@abejitasqueaks
@abejitasqueaks Жыл бұрын
interesting.. i do this naturally sometimes when my partner and i are having an argument
@deendiaries1255
@deendiaries1255 6 ай бұрын
In Islamic tradition somethugnt similar has been taught to us by Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him . When you are angry , drink water. Or if you standing , sit down. If you are sitting down , lay down... It's reallt hard to be angry this way.
@mike110111
@mike110111 4 ай бұрын
omw where is the rest???
@marcielouset6186
@marcielouset6186 2 жыл бұрын
Anger isn’t a bad thing though. We don’t need to always reduce anger either. Anger can be very healthy!
@KaylaMarie-ox8le
@KaylaMarie-ox8le 7 ай бұрын
It can have bad consequences though, like breaking my hand by punching a wall. Even though, I believe I was rightfully angry at the psych ward, I still had to deal with the fracture. Painful and inconvenient. That being said, I don't think the mental health field takes enough responsibility. For the most part, they take none. It's really just blaming the patient. To take this nuance approach, would mean the client is rightfully angry at them often.
@Plasmafox
@Plasmafox 9 ай бұрын
That's not managing anger though, that's insisting it go away like it doesn't have a purpose or a meaning. You have to accept your feelings- not listen to them because they aren't reality- but accept that they're there and that there's a reason for it.
@jenniferbush5957
@jenniferbush5957 9 ай бұрын
And often the intensity is ineffective for solving problems or addressing the cause of the anger, thus half-smile, willing hands.
@tadams2tone
@tadams2tone 7 ай бұрын
Oh, Marsha... Thank you for saving my life... Actually, no, thank you for giving me one in the first place.
@TomeRodrigo
@TomeRodrigo 2 жыл бұрын
I am not BPD but my opinion is that sometimes you need to punch a mattress or shout in the forest as the trauma will lock loads of emotion within. Imagine a parent who makes you constantly very angry as a child and won't allow you to be angry otherwise you will be punished. Willing hands in this case solve absolutely nothing.
@loverainthunder
@loverainthunder 2 жыл бұрын
👍
@KaylaMarie-ox8le
@KaylaMarie-ox8le 7 ай бұрын
At least you won't get a fracture like me in the psych ward when I punched that wall. Even though I hadn't ever broken a bone prior, I knew immediately. Instant regret, and severe pain.
@furqanrafiq3995
@furqanrafiq3995 2 жыл бұрын
But who will remind me to do that when I have already lost my mind due to anger? that's the issue, I am not in my senses, i lose control over myself and then realise it after some time...someone told me that the issue is not with the anger itself, its about how you express it...respond rather than react...
@charlieangkor8649
@charlieangkor8649 5 жыл бұрын
what if I do only one hand willing hand? Will only one hemisphere stop being angry and then my brain will be in an inconsistent emotional state?
@jasonterlep1208
@jasonterlep1208 5 жыл бұрын
Very helpful🙏🏽
@Checkyourself11
@Checkyourself11 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you
@jbruso123
@jbruso123 3 жыл бұрын
Does it work with RAD children?
@BlindPress
@BlindPress 3 ай бұрын
I'm blind, I wish I knew what willing hands looked like so I could practice it.
@hereternalsummer8224
@hereternalsummer8224 2 жыл бұрын
ok but what about rage?
@dianakhayal7816
@dianakhayal7816 4 ай бұрын
This gesture looks like the Islamic hand duaa/prayer gesture 🤲. Some islamic duaa/prayer for anger says: "O Allah O Lord of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) forgive my sins, remove the anger of my heart and save me from Satan/devil whispers."
@ciaran6309
@ciaran6309 4 жыл бұрын
I feel angry and frustrated alot of the time
@AllTaxisRYellow
@AllTaxisRYellow Жыл бұрын
How to not react when getting attacked.
@mayamachine
@mayamachine 2 жыл бұрын
Anger is not a excess of emotion. Anger is a emotion. Healthy anger must be explained or you will develop terrible diseases.
@zz-ic6vy
@zz-ic6vy 2 жыл бұрын
yes but in this case when talking about BPD
@loverainthunder
@loverainthunder 2 жыл бұрын
Anger comes up for a reason, to protect some kind of boundary, and if it's not utilized for that -you're right it'll destroy the person.
@loverainthunder
@loverainthunder 2 жыл бұрын
@@zz-ic6vy In BPD the boundaries are all over the place, but at the root the anger is trying to protect the boundaries. Unless we're talking about brain damage maybe.
@slimshany4602
@slimshany4602 2 жыл бұрын
This woman explaining is an expert on the subject. This means she has done research for years and years. Yes anger is an excess of emotion. Whether you do not want believe this to be true is up to your way of thinking. I agree with you that I never experienced it this way, but having done my research I can now understand what is meant by it. I mean no harm, but just be careful with statements, that's all. Professionals absolutely know how important it is to express anger or what lies underneath. You know this too, you are spot on with it lacking we make ourselves sick. Peace to you Kola! ✌🏽💛
@ncjxbshj
@ncjxbshj Жыл бұрын
@@slimshany4602 Appeal to authority won't get you far.
@lindadunn8787
@lindadunn8787 4 жыл бұрын
Yay!
@hopeforthefuture8680
@hopeforthefuture8680 2 жыл бұрын
Staff meeting Friday I’ll let you know!!!!
@arcticcharm
@arcticcharm 2 жыл бұрын
Oh, I can.
@christofthedead
@christofthedead Жыл бұрын
would this work if you didn't tell someone what the expected outcome of "willing hands" was? would this work if you told someone that "willing hands" was a way to help them become more angry? this seems more like exploiting cognitive bias by generating an expectation, rather than some ancient magical spiritual wisdom. I wish psychology would permanently distance itself from justifying intentionally misleading people with "it sometimes produces effective outcomes". Taking lazy pseudoscientific shortcuts is not worth the amount of distrust this misleading methodology generates.
@nicabm
@nicabm Жыл бұрын
Hi Meshuggahner, We are legally unable to offer you advice on this topic. However, I would recommend checking out our blog where you can leave a comment, if you feel comfortable doing so. Often times, practitioners will respond to these comments and provide some insight into questions posted. Here is the link to our blog: www.nicabm.com/blog/ I hope this helps!
@whatever3145
@whatever3145 Жыл бұрын
This is all so offensive. Ill keep my anger thank you very much. Might be good for trivial matters but to apply this to what angers me at my core is downright insulting Theyll never really understand. Cursed
@unity6906
@unity6906 5 жыл бұрын
I'm wary of any medical professional who cites "Spirituality" as a source of knowledge backed by anecdotal evidence.
@mattm5093
@mattm5093 5 жыл бұрын
This video is of the creator of one of the most highly researched treatment protocols. scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C34&q=DBT+efficacy&btnG=
@LisaMarieAdams
@LisaMarieAdams 5 жыл бұрын
It's obviously a psychological effect. The gesture symbolizes surrendering. So it triggers that Pavlovian response in us.
@Fuzzysea693
@Fuzzysea693 4 жыл бұрын
Matt M I’m in a DBT group now. While a lot of her information is extremely helpful, some is just NOT good. Teaching that “shame” is a healthy feeling (whereas the shame is literally feeling YOU are bad, not that you did something bad) is not productive at all.
@marias.6955
@marias.6955 3 жыл бұрын
No need to be "wary" of anything, Unity. The question is: does it work for YOU, or does it not. It's an innocent & harmless gesture as such, you will have to admit. Try it out enough times to see if it works for YOU, ..or not. If it DOES, great! Keep using it. If it doesn't work for you, no problem, just go and try out sth else. Or perhaps you don't even NEED any particular anger management technique because you ARE in control of yr anger. If it works for others, well - be happy for them! For the rest: who cares what inspired Marsha to this harmless gesture that appears to have a certain positive effect for a lot of people. To label her & others' positive experience as "anecdotal evidence" is in all evidence unfounded & pure personal prejudice (in my humble opinion, since u don't appear to even having tried it out yourself).
@margaretdonovan1649
@margaretdonovan1649 3 жыл бұрын
That's too bad. They work well together.
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