A Professional's Expert MVM Guide

[@arbiter771]

Very decent guide! I think it would've been beneficial to answer some of the stuff about glitched upgrades or stuff like doing more damage to tanks as pyro when aiming at the top. Some notable Upgrade "Glitches" and tidbits: Heavy's second firing speed doesn't do anything, except on the Tomislav, where the first upgrade instead does nothing. Also, the percentage given is actually wrong. First/second increases it by 14%, the third by 29% and the fourth by 43%. Tomislav is slightly different and maxes at 38%. Engineer's Sentries don't benefit from the second or third upgrades of firing speed in a normal server. However if the server's simulation tick timing is slightly off then the first tick will not work, and the second one will be required. Using hitsounds is the best way to judge if the first tick upgrade worked at all, as its usually impossible to tell otherwise. Canteens also work on the Engi's sentry. Crit canteens max your sentry's firing speed (which you can't achieve normally), Uber canteens make your sentry invulnerable. Recall canteens don't do anything. and refill ammo canteens refill your sentry's ammo and rockets. (Having a strange PDA is hell for mvm, just dont have one if you play MVM.) Soldier's Rocket Specialist only works on the first tick. The other ticks only slightly increase blast radius on direct hit and projectile speed. Not worth the 200 spent per level. Spy's 3rd sapper upgrade does NOT make it affect more robots. It only increases the amount of time robots are sapped for. as mentioned before, since Jungle Inferno, Pyro's flamethrower does more damage to the tank when aiming towards the top. With max damage phlog it does about 25ish per tick and 75 with crits. Along with this, the airblast knockback upgrades can be incredibly increased by flicking up or down when you airblast. Greatly altering how and where the airblast sends enemies. Unconfirmed but i've heard rumors of sniper's 3rd and 4th charge speed not giving correct amounts of charge speed. Unconfirmed and needs testing. Medic's canteen specialist only applies after you buy the upgrade and leave the upgrade menu, and go back into it. Canteen specialist also doesn't work with recall canteens.

[@Pride_1]

It’s easier to just pin this comment tbh. As I said I would like to at some point make a follow up video covering little optimizations like the ones you mentioned. The video is already like 25 minutes as is, I didn’t want to go overboard with little things in the first big video for fear of 1) making the video way too long and having me lose interest partway through(which I already almost did) and 2) making the video too dense with information and not spacing everything out properly enough to keep it engaging. As it is, this video should be more than enough to get anyone to a point where they can at least clear expert mvm, and that was the main goal with this first video. Thank you for the comment though, I didn’t even know some of the stuff you listed. Of course, I’ll need to double check it myself before putting it in an actual video, but any feedback or tips is much appreciated!

[@Pride_1]

Yea I have over 200 tours on expert as well and uh, I’m not too sure if I’m proud of how much time I’ve poured into it lmao. At least it was enough to make a high quality video

[@YttriumtYcLief]

For the record, we've fixed the firing speed issues in Team Comtress and hopefully they'll make their way upstream to the real game. Also Sentry Firing Speed 2 actually *does* improve the firing speed if you *aren't* using the Wrangler, but it does nothing if you are. Third does nothing period. The ideal angle for the Flamethrower on the Tank is 75 degrees, but anywhere between 72 and 78 is fine. Above that and some particles no longer hit the tank, below that and they don't do max damage.

[@arbiter771]

@@YttriumtYcLief Honestly flamethrower angle isn't too important as long as its towards the top of the tank. It works best if you have a hud to track damage. Max damage Phlog should be doing 25 per tick and around 78(?) with crits. Also unless it's changed since i remember testing the sentry firing speed a long long time ago and i distinctly remember 2 being really wonky, and most people assumed it was map based when people tested it. Also isn't Team Comtress a one woman show? Unless you're mastercoms then i apologize

[@Crowntes]

Oh my god, that’s long..

[@danielmallory4687]

The sniper bots from mvm are so scary they joined casual mode

[@builderbosc]

Ikr

[@Aohngalli52311]

indeed

[@iizepic9788]

This made me laugh too hard I'm dying on the floor now

[@Aohngalli52311]

@@iizepic9788 damn, have you tried putting rice on it?

[@babypyroshark2604]

@@Aohngalli52311 i dont think he has

[@yocats9974]

0:27 "Your team loses on wave 1 and when they spawn their first thought is MEeEeEeEeEDIC" Whenever my team loses on wave 1, 4 out of 6 people leave without saying a word

[@sharkking271]

Me too

[@Yewsarn]

7 people?

[@yocats9974]

@@Yewsarn I haven't played TF2 in like three years, I don't know how high the limit is

[@kitkitkatkit]

@@yocats9974 There’s a maximum of 6 people in a round of MVM, just so you know.

[@sweetricecakeman8582]

Similar experience in training mode: (team loses wave because of five people playing engineer) (three out of five people leave after the loss, others leave when someone switches to Pyro.

[@UncleDane]

Great video! It's been years since I've given anything other than Two Cities a go, mainly because I've just gotten used to those maps and I generally play MvM to zone out and shoot stuff. But your video definitely makes it seem like a slightly more demanding experience, but with the same vibe. And I never even considered that it costs less to complete. Entertaining and informative video, and the fact that you learned how to use SFM just to give this video more flair is super respectable. Again, great job... I hope more people eventually see this!

[@Pride_1]

Thanks! My goal with going so far above what was "necessary" for a video like this was largely to prove to myself that I'm capable of making something people can enjoy. To have someone who inspires me like you say that I did it means more than I can possibly say. Thanks, I hope I can impress even more with the next one! Nice work on your recent videos by the way, especially the panic attack one. There's some stuff in there I'm not even sure how you did, and the graphics were super clean.

[@YttriumtYcLief]

Yo Dane, come play with us!

[@charalore5764]

its ankie dan

[@SergeantG18C]

It's you it's really you

[@soarinskies1105]

*GOD HAS JOINED THE SERVER*

[@TeaSlurp_SDH]

This is the closest thing to "how it feels to play MVM" that we can get

[@cake7378]

11:27 we got a lazypurple reference amazing.

[@theman1657]

We got a few

[@jacquesnouvel6436]

And the Engineer section used HeartGold / SoulSilver music, just like Uncle Dane does in his videos

[@fuze7885]

20:08 lazer pooples voice says just turn around here

[@araptorwearingahat7735]

I can tell lazy purple is a big inspiration for him throughout the video in general.

[@keithslatteryii6921]

Lazys da best

[@spacegodzilla798]

“You need more damage” “Gas passer is too much damage”

[@7fatrats]

Yeah.. i dont get the logic here. I guess people dont want to recognize pyro as being part of "the meta" or something

[@tonyshum5569]

gas passer is indeed TOO MUCH damage, it trivializes the game and ruins the fun of playing, if you want to speedrun manhattan than go ahead, but please we are not here to sit idle and watch.

[@Gxmb1t]

@@tonyshum5569 but why wouldn't you want do more damage in the game about damage? The Gaspasser saves your time and spares gives more room for error.

[@tonyshum5569]

@@Gxmb1t gives you so much room for error that you can basically conga and do nothing

[@tonyshum5569]

@@Gxmb1t imagine yourself in something like an mmo, would you still have fun with the mmo if the guy with a very high level killed every enemy for you and you did nothing?

[@gungisgrand225]

Damn, Gas Passer never gets a break It's so bad in normal play that everyone hates it but it's so unbelievably GOOD in MvM that everyone STILL hates it

[@e3en7444]

Yeah the explode on ignited is soo good

[@Loner098]

Speedrunners also use it, of course.

[@protogenhorde8515]

Yes

[@mafyboy0420]

How to win wave 666 in 15-30 mins pending on sever.

[@Loner098]

@@mafyboy0420 Some speedrunners *could* try running the Gas Passer. But I don't think use it that often.

[@warriorbuilds3145]

The beggars bazooka actually is the best weapon for soldier in mvm. Because it already has a extremely fast firing speed, it frees up the need for max firing speed, allowing you save roughly 800 credits.

[@Vizaru]

this. beggars only needs 1 rocket specialist plus max reload speed to be viable, though damage and ammo capacity certainly help.

[@mariustan9275]

@@Vizaru Is rocket specialist that necessary? Rockets specialist removes damage falloff and makes robots stunned on direct hit. But the beggars has has an innaccuracy penalty which makes aiming impossible and forces you to stay close so that the innacuracy penalty is negated. This makes it so damage falloff is non-existent, and direct hits are pretty much impossible to land. So is it really that necessary?

[@Vizaru]

@@mariustan9275 well, beggars with rocket specialist and max reload can permanently stun super scouts, so I'd say it's pretty good. tanks and supers are big targets so beggars inaccuracy is less detrimental. at the end of the day get whatever upgrades you want, it's for fun.

[@mariustan9275]

@@Vizaru Sure, just get reload speed. Then whatever you want.

[@Thomas_Angelo]

It doesn't have a good reloading speed at the start tho.

[@nopejustnope3900]

I had the luck to play my first expert mvm tour with this guy, and he is a saint. I fucked up left and right and this man was super patient.

[@BlakesPOV]

I like how the Obama Administration is trying to fix the teleporter.

[@ffwast]

And the region where TF2 is set has a ton of lead in the drinking water

[@Bizmarckus]

@@ffwast 0_0

[@danielsurvivor1372]

Based Libertarian?

[@Bizmarckus]

@@danielsurvivor1372 Based Libertarian.

[@danielsurvivor1372]

@@Bizmarckus Good to know

[@blu_laza]

18:59 "Or the medic could just use a shield" He says as the medic goes into the stratosphere and the heavy becomes soup

[@Viktor--Reznov]

That was funny

[@dormortop]

Robot Soldier: "Mmm, good soup"

[@ilySoMuch0]

Soup Time

[@wiselychosenname2867]

@@dormortop good soup 👌

[@TheOneWhoHasABadName]

dead, not big soup rice

[@thehuggod1682]

The most important thing to remember is to have fun. Not ever game has to be 100% serious and sometimes running meme classes or doing sub optimal things work, and that is a big reason why mvm is still super fun

[@megamegamanz]

Fun fact: using sydney sleeper in mvm is actually decent since it automatically apllies slow.

[@TheMrSeagull]

It also can cause explosive headshots, despite what some people say.

[@Mik-kv8xx]

Its decent but fan of war makes it unnecessary.

[@insertnamehere1555]

Fun fact: when I played mvm for the first time I played sniper and used the sidney sleeper.

[@thelastmlg2699]

Do you need any upgrades for that? And does it apply to explosive headshot

[@megamegamanz]

@@thelastmlg2699 For the sleeper there’s no upgrade for slow, it is auto applied, you can do explosive headshots, which doesn’t do a lot of damage, but it does spread the piss.

[@robthesaboteur]

This is the FIRST time ive ever heard why people genuinely disliked gas passer without calling me a loser and putting my name on tacobot.

[@Pride_1]

It's ok, I'm on the tacobot kicklist too. I decided to not kick someone and instead taught them how to play and we won after the tacobot guy left. That's enough to put someone on the kicklist to these people

[@logie3020]

it's almost like you can have a conversation about why u hate it rather just saying nothing and kicking the player and calling them ape after. it's pretty funny I found out about taco bots joined one and used the gas pass. game was pretty toxic ngl would not recommend

[@robthesaboteur]

@@Pride_1 Yeah. It’s astounding how seriously people can take a hoard mode for TF2 and how bent out of shape people can get rather than just taking a few seconds to explain. Great guide.

[@cottoneyejoe8285]

@@Pride_1 Wait tacobot is back? I thought they took it down!

[@Haispawner]

@@cottoneyejoe8285 No it isn't they're just talking about it.

[@zachlap3020]

Can we all agree that the real way to play scout is the equip the fish and beat robots to death

[@Pride_1]

you're right, that should have been the whole scout section

[@megaagentj2248]

@@Pride_1 put it in the alternate playstyles and Make sure to highlight how good it is

[@vivelespatat2670]

Fun fact : 4 scout with max attack speed on the bat shred through tank Is it practical ? No Is it stupidly fun ? Yes

[@ЯнБудинас]

@@vivelespatat2670 Fun fact: 4 skneepers with cleaners carabine and bushwakaklakakoo can decimate tanks.

[@angrybirdsfan9826]

*fibsh*

[@skittybug1558]

Something that keeps me coming back to this video is the phenomenal music choice. This is especially noticeable in the Engineer section, where all the songs are from Pokémon HeartGold/SoulSilver - Dane's choice of music (which is another great layer to the homage). But it's not just that. Sonic music for Scout, American™music for Soldier, Spoopy for Pyro, Russian for Heavy... It really shows how much you care about and appreciate music choice, and coming back from the fact that you took inspiration from EmpLemon; I can absolutely see the influence.

[@occamsbeatinstick.3076]

Wow, this is a switch, conventional wisdom was "Spy and Sniper are useless, no medic means the team is screwed" so this video did a lot to show some more practical knowledge.

[@JCBro-yg8vd]

Shows how the meta has evolved as players have learned the ins and outs of waves.

[@Technotoadnotafrog]

"Spy and Sniper are useless, no medic means the team is screwed" is how a normal player-versus-player match works, but MvM is very different from PvP

[@moonmelons]

@@JCBro-yg8vd This video is still behind the meta as well. Scout's suggested upgrades here are... pretty bad and his best primaries aren't even touched on at all.

[@Cat-ki3hy]

@@moonmelons his best primaries being idk but if I had to assume it would be the soda popper or force a nature

[@moonmelons]

@@Cat-ki3hy Soda Popper with Shortstop being an option in waves where you have a lot of credits. These are scouts best damage options with Soda Popper being better most of the time, but Shortstop being better when fully upgraded. Like Wave 7 of Hamlet Hostility with Shortstop + Crit O Cola is scouts best option and he competes with phlog pyro at melting the tanks.

[@johnf.kennedy2935]

A sniper: hits 1 shot The other 8 snipers on 2fort: 1:56

[@grrespt7460]

Your pfp adds the icing on the cake

[@not_zurixepic245]

This is accurate.

[@davidhong1934]

Including the ones on the enemy team

[@drm.himself]

Just git gud

[@plotheplayer6462]

NICE SHOT, MATE NICE SHOT, MATE NICE SHOT, MATE NICE SHOT, MATE NICE SHOT, MATE

[@racerm007]

Me: *misses a single dollar as scout* The rest of my team: *GIVE ME HIS TOES*

[@makkiezps4]

i like how you took inspiration from how it feels to play heavy at 11:22 to 12:03

[@Medic-ow1br]

I was looking to see if someone would say it

[@ballinboy2682]

Yeah me two

[@ratsmacker2045]

Yeah me three

[@austmc9810]

yeah me four

[@HeysStuff]

Yeah me five

[@skullylad]

Gas Passer in normal TF2: So bad it's annoying Gas Passer in MvM: So op it's annoying

[@anafu-sankanashi8933]

We are all Goldilocks

[@My_mom_is_gay]

Your a taco bot sthu

[@skullylad]

@@My_mom_is_gay I actually dislike Taco it a lot.

[@masterplasma5644]

@@skullylad good

[@RandomPerson-hd6wr]

P

[@garytee8945]

"don't treat this video as a bible or force people to play it your way" You know there will be people who do

[@Pride_1]

and you can tell them they're wrong to do that because I put that part in

[@JadedJaden]

Tacobot: That sign won't stop me, because I can't read!

[@KarnBlueEarring]

My guide: Don't be a fucking elitist and let people have fun.

[@lerogal3663]

@@KarnBlueEarring preach

[@Delta43020]

YEET YEEET YEET YEET YEET

[@trentthegoat3793]

"I won't kick anybody for using it (gas passer)" - 9:41 *TacoBot: RRREEEEEEEEEEEEEE*

[@ninjaassassin27]

It's not just tacobot, it's the majority of the mvm community.

[@cryotic7626]

I don't mind the gas passer, but rather the pyro in question. If he survives and can recharge it quickly then we're good. But if he dies over and over again or if he doesnt't have his gas at the right moment... we've got a problem.

[@ninjaassassin27]

@@cryotic7626 gas doesn't even reliably kill uber medics. It only deals 150 damage and medics overheal each other. Pyro is a waste of a class slot.

[@ShallowTeal]

@@cryotic7626 I usually run passer pyro because I find pyro enjoyable and the passer helps with so many situations, I rarely die since I get the right upgrades and know when to back off. Don't usually catch any flak from teamates that insist the passer is Satan incarnate.

[@bernardo-x5n]

@@ninjaassassin27 It deals 350 damage, and medics don't overheal each other.

[@sethgamman]

Upgrades Scout 3:02 Soldier (kind of) 7:13 Pyro 9:53 Demoman 10:50 Heavy 13:00 Engineer 14:24 Medic 19:11 Sniper 20:19 Spy 21:20

[@somebody5213]

Thank you

[@TheRockThatLooksLikeAFace]

He already done the timestamps in the video

[@The_Redstone_Robot]

@@TheRockThatLooksLikeAFace ?

[@Vikproductions]

@@TheRockThatLooksLikeAFace that's for the classes, not the upgrades

[@TheRockThatLooksLikeAFace]

@@Vikproductions the upgrades are in each class so that's why he put timestamps to seperate the different class upgrades

[@redxo4ever482]

Dude, these videos are like, HELLA TOP NOTCH! Keep it up, man!

[@justanaccount6885]

Underrated

[@hamham405]

When he said "three heavies" i was instantly sold

[@leonardo9259]

WEEEEEEEEEEELLL WAAAAAAAAAAAA CRYYY SOME MOOOOOOORE

[@cottoneyejoe8285]

Same here lol

[@freezingjazzy]

Same. Except when he said 5 snipers.

[@nathan_thorn6906]

The soldier costs can be alleviated slightly thanks to the beggars, since that thing has the 70% faster firing speed with most of the downtime going to loading rockets, so maxing just reload speed actually gives a faster fire rate than stick with max fire rate and reload speed. That saves you 800 credits that can go right into the damage upgrades, which brings him about on par with the costs for scout and heavy

[@davidhong1934]

Goes down to 1850, same as Scout

[@grizzlyberry]

Great vid! Def making me want to give Gear Grinder a go. I've never loved Manhattan or Rottenburg, but didn't realize you could get australiums from other missions.

[@ALPHAMARIOX]

Indeed, you can get australiums from every other tour except Oil Spill. You can even get some in Steel Trap, but the queue times are the worst, compared to all the other tours, where I spent a lot of time playing Boot Camp or watching KZbin videos when I was duo-queuing. Thankfully, the queue times in Mecha Engine or Gear Grinder aren't as bad.

[@shybandit521]

The maps are meh but I have fun and I personally don't like bot killers as much as I like snagging them tasty killstreak kits and bot bits

[@badzombies2003]

Some toxic players kicked me from a two cities mission on my first tour for playing beggars soldier. Jokes on them though, as I got an Australium on my 2nd tour.

[@raisinx]

Nice

[@Yunooki]

Very cool

[@eclecticspaghetti]

Beggar’s isn’t even bad in MvM, like what lol

[@bernardo-x5n]

@@eclecticspaghetti "Isn't even bad" is an underestatement, it is the best rocket launcher in MvM and shreds through tanks and giants.

[@boid9761]

@@bernardo-x5n Maxed out Beggar's is a god. But if you want consistency, the Air Strike is a good supplement

[@moothy14]

Timestamps: Upgrade page for each class Scout: 3:02 Soldier: 7:13 Pyro: 9:55 Demoman: 10:49 Heavy: 13:00 Engineer: 14:23 Medic: 19:05 Sniper: 20:16 Giant Killer Spy: 21:24 Money Spy: 21:39

[@howtosoup1012]

thank you

[@greenteddy5078]

thank you

[@markmcgehee3864]

@@greenteddy5078 hey use did you notice that spy’s theme is snake eater?

[@greenteddy5078]

@@markmcgehee3864 Nope

[@gurkha630]

Thanks

[@toadstuulguy4326]

10:15 can we all just take a moment to appreciate that Demo rag doll?

[@drm.himself]

I fell and I can't get up

[@bryrib2368]

This is a really solid video, reminds me of lazypurple’s “how it feels” series in terms of comedy, quality, and helpful info

[@BritOfADrag]

Two of the bits are literally copied from Lazy Purple so you're not wrong in thinking that

[@MRMOON-jk1cs]

​@@BritOfADrag You sound like you're saying Pride_ wanted it to seem like it was his ideas

[@hanro50]

"You know what this team could use?" "5 more snipers"

[@yoshyfoods]

G’day!!!!!

[@salt_factory7566]

We just need one more sniper and we’ll win for sure.

[@driphearts8035]

So the actual way to play Pyro in the Australium Farming game mode is to not make him use his most powerful unlock for the game mode? Seems like a TF2 thing to me lol

[@Pocket_Crab]

If you are a pyro main and have not learned to ignore everybody else by now then welcome to learning to have fun with pyro. 1. There are two types of people in TF2. People who know how pyro works and knows out of every class, pyro is the most situationally flexible. The second type is people that will always lean towards meta and at times use it as a crutch. There is nothing wrong with people basing their play style on something that is proven to work, but like the guy in the video shows at 12:32 it can get boring fast. The number one thing you should always have after wave one is one or two Uber canteens at all times. Just like heavy you have to get in the boys face. It only takes a few extra bots to kill you and leave your team down a player.

[@overlord-6644]

Taco bot: we want to grind tours fast, play the meta or we kick you Me: ok so I go gas pyro since it is very strong and we will win quickly and easily Taco bot: wait no…

[@overlord-6644]

@@Pocket_Crab as a pyro main with 1400 ish hours on the class, it just gets worse when people realize you know what you’re doing, they will constantly bring up excuses and reasons pyro should do or shouldn’t do blank. I have heard all of it a million times, as if that would change my play-style just because some people can’t handle dying to a pyro. Your advice on ignoring people is 100% valid, but I’m an asshole so I find purposely enraging people very entertaining.

[@inbeing3464]

Tbh i dont understand why people dont like gas passers. Its not like the amount of damage dealt would increase the chances of getting better loot or anything. Instead, the other teammates would benefit from it as it would help destroy the scouts and heavies faster.

[@demenetori7976]

@@inbeing3464 Because, shockingly, people play MvM for fun too, and it's not fun to just sit idle by as the pyro solo's the missions

[@Real_RUBB3R]

4:08, playing Scout myself for a bit in MvM (I'm usually a Heavy kind of guy), typically the only reason I ever miss money is because one of my teammates killed a bot god knows where and decided NOT to pick up the money, or I ended up dying because either a sentry buster exploded by me because I thought the Engie had it handled, or I get targeted by a million crit heavies.

[@lennychristine6761]

Or the pyro (or whoever was tank busting) decided to not pick up the money. This happened to me a couple of times

[@joaopedroferreirarodrigues4062]

Tries expert MVM Mannworks. Sees soldiers on the first wave. Cries.

[@bernardo-x5n]

Soldiers on first wave on that mission can be useful if they upgrade properly

[@boid9761]

Soldiers in Mannworks is very situational, but is doable

[@davidhong1934]

@@boid9761 (4 soldiers are using Rocket Jumpers, and the 5th guy is a GibusVision Sniper named xXx_Lorem.Ipsum_KillerGod_xXx)

[@Chord_]

What's this? A video that explains advanced mechanics in non-base TF2?!?! Absurd! But really though, you did a great job with this video. I've not really played upper tier missions too much, but just simply seeing someone explain MVM (be it upper or lower tier missions) is such a refreshing change of pace. Honestly wish that more TF2ubers gave MVM the time of day that you did here. And the actual composition of the video is ace as well. Like you said there are still a couple rough edges, but all-in-all, this is a heck of an introduction, and the 5 months you put into it were well worth it. Wishing you the best with any future videos!

[@hmmm2359]

That feeling when he doesn’t talk about the best demo loadout: Quickiebomb Launcher Booties Ulapool Caber

[@amiamagi]

Ah yes the Quickiebomb Launcher

[@eh2587]

Actually the best MvM demo lodout is B.A.S.E jumper Stickyjumper Ullapool caber

[@hmmm2359]

@@eh2587 ah yes

[@verticaldorito]

@@eh2587 that load out is actually super fun on casual. Just pray there isn't a mini sentry somewhere.

[@percher4824]

yeah, you can't equip booties without shield, get fucked i guess

[@aetu35]

You are partially wrong with spy. If you are a giant killer, armour Penetration and Movement Speed should be maxxed first. Combining them allows you to circle strafe and get backstabs far more efficiently. Armour penetration is far more efficient than swing speed as just one point of it will double your backstab damage and maxxing it will quintuple your backstab damage. Movement speed will allow you to make tighter turns faster and strafe around the giants in order to reach their back and get stabbing again. Afterwards, you should get swing speed and resists along with HoK and/or health regen (since giant killer spies won't be killing regular robots much, healing will be helped out better than you think with health regen). Afterwards, you decide what. Jump height can be useful, recall canteens can get you out of a jam or allow you to kill that one giant scout who slipped by, uber canteens can increase your survivability, revolver upgrades could help out with tanks if your team sucks ass. Just get what you feel will be useful and try to have fun trickstabbing those giants. Money spy will also benefit from health regen, perhaps at an even higher level since you wont be stabbing giants who are probably coated in mad milk as much. Resistances will be your friend and thus should be upgraded as soon as your speed is acceptable. You should still get armour penetration before swing speed as stabbing giants will simply net you more damage even if it feels like you are doing less. Jump height is more important here as dodging as much as possible while collecting money is paramount, and the extra mobility can get you to places with dropped money far easier. If you enjoy playing scout but want to try something different, you can try this. (But seriously just try upgrading your gun instead of resistances and unnecessary milk recharge its so much better and you actually help the team)

[@metalfan1890]

Fnaf lore

[@Erikk_is_Tired]

I've already watched this video more times than I can remember. This is really well done like Lazy Purple's work while also including a reference to him in the video. Goes to show how well done sfm animations can be.

[@Paulunatr]

This is a great guide! I really appreciate you making it clear that "THE META" isn't something that's set in stone, as well as explaining common misconceptions. I've been playing MvM since it came out (in spite of the ungodly-long queue times back in the day) but still don't have a completed tour. I couldn't begin to guess the number of times I've been kicked/raged at for doing something even slightly off-meta, even though I can play every class reasonably well in MvM. I hope more people watch this and can learn to be more accepting, because expert mode is fun stuff.

[@semibreve]

Honestly, its insane that a game almost 15 years old has such complexity and skill requirements in multiplayer modes. Its so rare to see anything like this today.

[@lazyliongames6660]

Now to get good you have to pay money

[@KirbY-su9yn]

I think it would be helpful to be clarified that the Sandman is really good, there is a 500 credit upgrade that makes the Ball, AND the bat itself to cause minicrits, letting you stay safe, and slow super scouts to the speed of a heavy. Although, those 500 credits are rather expensive early game, this is still a wonderful alternatinve to the Fan O War.

[@hatkid5904]

Ah yes the classic MvM reaction "Why is everyone playing engineer or heavy"

[@davidhong1934]

...and why is that one Scout stuck T-posing?

[@Nyonthecat]

Love the Sonic Adventure soundtrack on the background, thank you!

[@noob-master819]

it is?

[@Themosquito_]

Most of it was actually pokemon lol

[@casualsleepingdragon8501]

Casual bot are like mvm sniper nots wierd Florida cousin who addicted to meth

[@draftymoon894]

@@casualsleepingdragon8501 what?

[@storm_fling1062]

They were all diffrent so they match the class

[@djraph6011]

"sniper bots" where have i heard that from?

[@Youhadabadday2021]

"Good shot m8!"

[@sirtchamp8033]

"Nice Shot!"

[@sanicishere7295]

@Rhiannon Bartscht And now you can't even call for the medic as an f2p non-unlimited

[@Lenin941FN]

I used to be a heavy main in mvm but then I got an Aussie scattergun and have been maining scout ever since. At first it was just to flex the scattergun but I came to realize that scout is really fun and it comes with the unintended effect of making my aim better

[@Casual_PKBeats]

This video was honestly incredible, I definitely wasn't expecting something of this caliber when clicking on this. Love learning more MvM stuff too. I do have a few things I wanna ask, in regards to gas passer, though. I mostly play Two Cities myself. Whenever I see the unfounded disdain for the gas passer, I had always just found it to be completely illogical. Disliking a tool that makes completing the objective easier? Absurd! But I can sort of get your reasoning that you mentioned in the video, the idea of it kind of negating the need for half the team. My question comes in a few forms. First, I'm curious about why the idea of "skill" matters, as you mentioned when clarifying the difference between Sniper and Pyro. I feel like the amount of skill one has to put shouldn't really matter when everyone is working together to the same goal. Especially if it makes it easier for newer players to hop in and still be useful. Second, what truly are the differences between gas passer and Sniper, in terms of the fun for everyone else? Perhaps there are just some key differences between Two Cities and Gear Grinder that answer this for me, but as it stands I feel like Pyro is more of just a Sniper replacement, rather than a TEAM replacement. He doesn't constantly have gas passer available, and it's honestly not that useful for giants. Seems like it's just good for killing medics and crowd control, like Sniper is, at about the same pace, if not slower at times, even. Finally, I feel like your experiences, and thus disdains for the gas passer branch from abuse for extremely new players, based on your description of the Pyro player being dead for 90% of the round. Do you think this is a gas passer issue that can't be avoided, or do you think the gas passer can function at a more tame level if used by a more competent player who mostly uses it against medics and occasionally crowd control, and focuses more on just normal flamethrower damage, clutch airblasts, other silly Pyro things. I know it'd be more optimal to pick other classes to do those things, but we're always talking about the suboptimal fun times when mentioning Pyro, I'd imagine. Again, your video was really spectacularly made, I really hope to see more be made with even more information in them. MvM has been a super fun game mode to play, but I put off joining for so long because I was worried I wouldn't even be able to learn how to play without getting kicked constantly. I think that's kind of where my worry with the gas passer disdain comes from, as it's an item I enjoy deploying in Two Cities sometimes when I'm sick of Scout or Heavy or Engineer.

[@jonohama3721]

Oh I did not expect to see you here, great content from you and pride_

[@nono-dy8ce]

big b r a i n

[@foomongus2935]

Oh yeah, forgot you also played tf2 and wasnt just a nintendo person, not that there is anything wrong with just being a mintendo person, some of my closest friends are nintendo people infact

[@nostur4984]

This video is not incredible at all. It's far from it.

[@Calvin_Coolage]

@@nostur4984 Why is it not incredible?

[@wmperkele]

Man i remember when first MvM came out its funny how different it is from how your video describes it now, it was soldiers everywhere and any sniper picker got kicked

[@brettausten1259]

People still threaten to kick me on steel trap when i pick sniper. A good top damage shuts them up, though.

[@bennyputin8746]

How it FEELS to play MvM

[@blackyoda2278]

I’d take a gas passer pyro over a high tour demo or sniper any day. Those are the players that actually trivialize the game and make it feel boring.

[@lettuceman1806]

underrated. if you carry on with this effort, the quality will improve exponentially overtime(it is already great now) ,and I expect for your channel to blow up in the future, if the algorithm allows it.

[@Pride_1]

Thanks, I'm glad to know all the effort I poured in isn't going to waste

[@momothemagecat]

11:21 i like that this segment is a lazypurple reference

[@DisabledGod]

17:21 I'm the heavy weapons guy on the left :) Nice video though, hope to see more people playing expert (with a brain)

[@fami.c2013]

Dee lol

[@GimX3]

6:13 *meanwhile on wave 666* Ive basically always seen soldier having more damage done than basically all the other classes, even heavys and snipers sometimes

[@packageolies510]

Money

[@45.chuminh81]

As the guy above me said, money. Wave 666 give you a ton of money at the start.

[@GimX3]

@@45.chuminh81 yea i was stupid back then, that waves obv an exception.

[@lordrj4203]

Yeah I usually play him or Pyro With beggar's and buff banner He is nigh invincible I have a video that I put up recently , you guys can check it out and give me some tips to improve

[@scottjefferson4048]

Cause as he said on the video. With the cash, soldier can ourbest them, and 666 has it from the start

[@jvbutalid8316]

15:05 "you were the chosen one! you were supposed to destroy them, not join them!"

[@Pride_1]

That’s exactly the reaction I was looking for

[@SG-fm9wd]

God I get tired of jokes like this

[@Amazing_Toast]

I like to run eyelander demoknight with max upgrades on the sword, usually kill heal first. The bots are easy to kill for heads and you can easily kill more after at least one head.

[@meem6154]

I prefer swing speed then heal then crits then damage

[@oscarp8376]

I do the same but with half zatoichi swing speed crits on kill damage

[@lordofchaos1845]

4:42 Well that took a dark turn lol.

[@gloweyegaming7887]

9:16 what I have found with Pyro, is that you need to get 2 ticks of the jump height upgrade. This one upgrade allows you to just dodge everything for 200 credits.

[@TKmeh]

I played expert mode once before, since I was so new including my friend who had extra tickets I actually asked what I should play since I was decent at medic. The other guy in the team using VC actually explained how to play engie effectively after a certain wave, god bless you man for helping the newbie medic/engie in expert! I’ve only been kicked once before by these tacobot asshats but also with an apparently very high tour MVM regular whom me and my friend had never heard from but enjoyed playing with, Is It Winter Yet had fun with ya man if you’re reading this! Thanks for sticking around us two noobs for so long to waste the Tacobots time!

[@Manti-89]

2:50 “Now let’s hop right into” Then I get an ad for skin care

[@joshyua5273]

Same

[@technoguyx]

get an ad blocker and YT Vanced.

[@jacobwingers5206]

@@technoguyx I like to support creators, even if they make 5 cents off it

[@quenquent95]

You've joined Underscore Gaming in the list of good MvM KZbin guides. Holy crap I don't see a lot of good MvM guides on KZbin and yours is pretty good. I could nitpick and say "Damage Scout and Shield Basher Medic" but considering it's tailored toward new Expert players, this is really, really good !

[@Golden0718]

Honestly this helped me prepare for doing my first expert mode run through. I main heavy for MVM so this helped me figure out upgrades as I had memorized some positions with the lower difficulties. I cleared my first expert mission without a single failed wave. So thanks for the help!

[@prediculous8059]

The fact that this man explained everything what I've always asked for 2 months in the internet, only to get answers in a 24:30 long video Get better, Reddit

[@dimitriwarchief301]

Yeah go home reddit

[@brunaotube]

In pretty sure that redditors Just play two cities

[@doriantermini]

Wait, you're asking reddit for tips? Reddit doesn't know shit. Everyone there is retarded.

[@ilikewindows3455]

You asked a hive mind for tips. I mean come on man

[@btfo420]

reddit is like twitter. It’s an echo chamber full of jaded people.

[@dimitriwarchief301]

I hope lazy purple sees this video I like how you drew inspiration and did your own thing. As much as lazy purple is “simple” in his comedy. The way he conveys his message is perfect

[@Madhayter]

19:32 the best sound to ever exist. Also thank you for this lol.

[@micahbell7763]

Lyrics: Verse 1: *Goes to the 6th dimension* Chorus: AAAAAA-

[@robloxplayer0003]

I always wondered why the other pieces of the meta are looked at positively, but pyro with gas is seen as absolutely horrendous.

[@icyan393]

for a lot of people it's seen as requiring 0 skill for such a high damage output, that a lot of people view GP pyro as just brainless throwing, running in, and dying

[@25439]

@@icyan393but that Is beneficial? Sorry is the point of the game to lose or win?

[@icyan393]

@Bobrowanhowes yeah i dont.. really get it either. its just how a lot of players see it. i guess a lot of players care about the process too as well as whether they lose or win the wave ?

[@25439]

@@icyan393 that’s dumb, but that’s tr2 players,

[@DespOIcito]

​@@25439 the main reason people dont like it is because it rewards bad gamesense and no skill by giving high damage, making that player think they're doing well even if they aren't. other overpowered options like crit sticky traps and explosive headshots require skill and reward you for being good at the game. the lack of skill can cause issues if they're making basic noob mistakes (e.g. spamming airblast, popping uber medics if they miss the throw/gas on cooldown, dying all the time, buying bad upgrades, not tankbusting/focusing unimportant bots with gas) and it gets even worse if the team needs the pyro to switch to a different class and their bad gamesense makes the wave hell to deal with. some people view it as a crutch for inexperienced players and would rather a competent sniper/demo be on the team instead. to be clear i dont care if people use it, but thats the main reason i see for why people dont like it. it also just takes the fun out for a lot of people as its much easier to just throw gas at the bots infront of you and w+m1 than to memorise the waves and know where the important bots will be/aim and land your headshots

[@GabrielSaba95]

This gives the exact feeling that is given during a lazy purple video, I can tell you tried at least a little trying to make it that way. Good Job!

[@detectivewiththesharpteeth1163]

"You know what this team needs? Five more snipers!"

[@danielsurvivor1372]

6:53 I'd argue jump height 3 upgrade is a bit excessive, it also means if you're flung into the air by knockback you can't, or shouldn't jump since you'll extend time in air. Also Force a nature can increase your jump height if you ever need more.

[@ralphthejedimaster]

that can often be a good thing if you're not flung into the air repeatedly, since you'll be able to airstrafe to wherever the money is. you can definitely get away with jump height 2 but if the map has any jumps you can only make with jump 3 then you should just get jump 3, it's only 100 more credits and could save you a lot of annoyance with specific places you can't get to as easily potentially losing you some money

[@psyche_1297]

Great guide! Really inspired me to buy my three tickets and go play expert mode again. Only to get three servers with low tours who insisted on the two cities meta, I was the highest tour with only 8. I just ended up buying another ticket and playing two cities. Honestly it is a really good video and guide and eventually I completed another tour, I just need a few of my competent friends in the lobby. I do really love expert mode but it is so frustrating to play when many servers can’t get past wave one.

[@kirbyblasters]

The lazy purple “how it feels to play sniper” reference got me XD

[@hmmm2359]

2:52 “Now, lets hop right into-“ *ad starts*

[@aetu35]

Something left out of the video: You can go soldier a wave earlier if you use the Beggar's Bazooka since with that you only really need reload speed and damage to be effective (along with a point of health on kill ofc). It's the best rocket launcher already since it can output a more consistent stream of damage but you need to practice and get used to it.

[@idcgaming518]

11:58 nice HIFTPS reference. Very funni. I imagine this would be soundsmith approved.

[@Dan_Sightsandsounds]

The hou long heater is a giant grinder. It does 5% more damage over the brass beast if the target is on fire and can cause chip damage to the trash bots that walk near while focusing on the giants. You trade more mobility and damage for increased dispenser dependability. It pairs well with a pyro or medic as this strategy benefits best with up close and personal behavior.

[@zagreus3347]

no mate it doesn't work like that it has 13 percent damage increase because of the 10 percent damage penalty

[@accountlol7409]

@@zagreus3347 so the damage penalty increases its damage???im confused lol

[@zagreus3347]

@@accountlol7409 25 percent increase get nullified by the 10 percent lower damage and only becomes 13 percent increase

[@elengideboca3882]

"How to play MvM!" Me: just shoot everything who move.

[@Pride_1]

Basically yea. As long as you wait until the uber medics are dead before shooting them/their heal target that’s the whole strat

[@redphysical565]

Only what moves? Sentires be like: ASCENDED

[@idklol781]

14:38 you can actually just run past the sentry busters and set up your sentry in a different location

[@odysseysfortune537]

This video is so rewatchable. I could watch it over and over and still get something out of it.

[@fritzthesmolmouse1634]

It warms my heart seeing Gear Grinders get some love! The amount of time I've enjoyed teaching those new to the mission how to survive ((Especially 3rd wave mannworks)) and the amount of times I've been heartbroken having to leave when the majority of people won't listen to experienced players. For what it's worth, I hope this becomes an extremely popular video so the word of Gear Grinders can be spread to those stuck in the mindset of Two Cities. I may continue to play Gear Grinders regularly to either A: See the impact this video has made on people, or B: Guide newer players to this video so they can greater understand how the mission works.

[@Cybersharky_]

Degenerate

[@DrewHelander]

As a soldier main I feel heart broken.

[@exilecrusher7271]

Don't worry too much about. Depending on the team, soldiers still is pretty good and usable, just not as simple as heavy spam. If you wanna actually do damage, use splash damage to your advantage. Or just use the Beggars and mash lmb to watch everything die.

[@MajiriTadakichi]

I'm not even good at soldier i just think he's fun and I've done it before

[@megaagentj2248]

Mvm is basically a different game. Classes have different roles and the meta is entirely flipped on it’s head, you will probably find a different class to play in mvm

[@machinelearninggoddess]

Beggars + conch will make you a godsend for your team. They will have 0 right to kick you out

[@aneishinobinomono]

i miss when the medics crossbow acted as an instant delete against giants. it would fire all your shots at once and usually crit twice

[@tobiasjoemamawillygamble868]

This video is a bloody lifesaver. Ive been stuck on how to get better in mvm for so long, thank you :)

[@brunaotube]

3:34 If you jump 10 seconds the scene ends like the scout Just step in the earth

[@MyViolador]

Me playing scout: money money money loads of moneyyyy. Me when im missing my A+ : where is it where is that last money pile ahhhhhhhhhh! Noooo

[@LostMindSparrow]

Fr tho, the panic I feel when I can’t find the last stack of money

[@skye4402]

that music from 12:50 reminds of like every boss fight in the yakuza series, Heavy Weapons guy lieutenant from the redmann family

[@darthball2723]

17:55 how mad milk is made

[@markzone473]

The description literally says "non milk substance"

[@rexunlovable]

forget medigun, embrace five heavies with brass beasts in a straight line with projectile penetration on crusader crossbow

[@aetu35]

I have watched this video so many times, maybe 40? 50? It is so entertaining, so educating and so well done. I absolutely love this, and I sincerely wish you a successful and happy future.

[@blob643]

I don't play MVM and from what I can get from Soldier and Pyro here is that Soldier: gets kicked for being too bad for MVM expert Pyrp: gets kicked for being too good for MVM expert

[@abbas-aliibnmohammadal-nam929]

Why would anyone kick pyro for being too good if it's not training mode? You literally paid to get some stuff for winning a match so why not stick with the cheesiest cheese?

[@Handlessuck1]

@@abbas-aliibnmohammadal-nam929 Morals.

[@megaagentj2248]

@@abbas-aliibnmohammadal-nam929 some people like earning thing in video game, gas passer users I imagine would just buy a loot box, because they don’t actually like mvm at all

[@Goldiiee]

@@megaagentj2248 people are also capable of asking the Gas Passer Pyro to not use it unless it’s needed or the Demo or Sniper aren’t keeping up with DPS. Want to earn the rewards? Sure, understandable. Immediately crying about Gas Passer being used once? Grow Up. “They’re the same plAyErS whO WAnT LoOTBoxEs” obviously they aren’t and you can’t even prove they are. Don’t be a dickhead about someone using the gas passer. Either ask nicely or that same Pyro is gonna keep using it until they’re kicked because you were an ass about it. They didn’t lose anything and you are now down 1 player because your feelings got hurt in a mode where DPS, and Meta’s are key.

[@Goldiiee]

@@megaagentj2248 oh and that’s not even mentioning if any of the classes need a little help with the bots. The Gas Passer has its place. All you need to do is Mann Up and actually communicate with the pyro player to find a happy medium. They use it when they feel people are getting overwhelmed and need the immense amount of extra Damage being done to the bots in a single click meanwhile you don’t have to deal with the gas passer being used religiously. In a coop mode you would think communicating would be the thing you think of first but instead it’s kicking and being toxic. Don’t play the Co-Op mode if you can’t communicate with the team members. It defeats the entire purpose of playing Co-Op and not doing something like Payload.

[@kenziloo9176]

i found this video funny and informative. the effort for jokes was nice too. i appreciated the visuals on engie placements and the suggestions for upgrades. thanks 👍

[@boreal3255]

16:12 tiny desk engineer

[@carsonferg]

2 years later and this video is still the best MVM video. Good work Pride_

[@okidokiiiii]

Lazy purple reference 11:35

[@Fluxuation]

Top 10 lines in movie history: “He fixed it in the same way you fix a dog”

[@loonowolf2160]

8:54 cope about it. I love the gas passer.

[@Sinstarclair]

13:40 Hang on. Engineer with TWO Gloves?

[@Pride_1]

Yea the cute suit does that

[@Sinstarclair]

@@Pride_1 did not know that, looks cool

[@Marxdaft]

look, i know gas passer is hated on, but i think that absolutely juicy and succulent noise it makes when i kill over 5 bots at the same time is like more satisfiying than an fidget toy out there, plus its basically a free game win if the team knows what they're doing, and gas passer got me a 47 dollar proffessional killstreak sniper rifle fabricator so i cant complain

[@qbert8695]

Honestly, I have no idea why the Recall canteen is so much overlooked. This is insanely good tool for escaping inevitable death, which is especially good for Spy.