A Proposal to Make LA Metro's C Line Popular

[@RallyingforRail]

I appreciate the feedback I’m getting so much! I think these discussions allow us to dream of better transit in the LA area, and the country as a whole. There’s a good chance I’ll do a video incorporating feedback after the contest is over. And that feedback should include the fact that I mispronounced Artesia. It’s Art-ee-jaa. Thanks to the commenter who pointed that out!

[@robserrano8971]

OCTA should work on its own light rail system. An extension of the OC Streetcar to ARTIC and then to John Wayne Airport. From Irvine Regional Park to South Coast Plaza. Connection to Metro Gateway Cities Line at Los Cerritos Center to Savi Ranch along South St/ Orangethorpe. 1st Ave in La Habra to Brea along the track just north of Lambert Rd. North and South route along the whole lengths of Beach, Harbor, and State College would be an awesome and useful start for OCTA.

[@Pepetoño_1]

There is a big plan to develop the strip malls north of South Coast Plaza into dense, mixed-use development so this line would be great for that. Probably would be better to be a separate line but I could be wrong

[@RallyingforRail]

@@Pepetoño_1 that’s some interesting history. And one possibility I’m definitely considering as I’m incorporating feedback is to somewhat split my idea into two: an LAX to Anaheim/Disney line (the C Line extension) and then an Orange County-specific line that serves the Fullerton, Anaheim, Orange, Santa Ana, and Irvine stops I served with this proposal.

[@willgearhart6985]

The reason so many people propose extending the line to Norwalk Station is because high-speed rail will stop there (someday). Also, your proposed station in Buena Park needs to be much further south; people do not and will not begin to travel to Knott's on a bus. I worked there for a year and a half and I can think of just one person who took the bus. I give you extra credit, though, for having placed it where the original depot and city plaza was, about 140 years ago.

[@RallyingforRail]

@@willgearhart6985 this is good feedback. I wonder if the bus thing would change if it were only a last-mile thing rather than the entire trip. But I digress. One proposal I’m kicking around as thinking about if/how to edit my proposal is a proposal to do exactly as you said, and bring a stop much closer to Knott’s (if not a stop right by there).

[@VMT5555]

I am going through pain of you mispronouncing Artesia it is correctly pronounced (Art-ee-jaa)

[@RallyingforRail]

@@VMT5555 I appreciate your correcting me on that! I’ll put a pinned comment to note that.

[@acaciafruit347]

This is a really interesting proposal! However, due to the sheer length of the line and difference in stop spacing (some stations such as Norwalk-Alondra really should be cut), I think it would work better as a separate line operated by OCTA, due to it mostly being in and serving Orange County destinations. It would be a great local alternative to Metrolink OC Line and get much closer to major destinations. Although I do think a major omission is that of South Coast Metro, if the line diverted west on Warner, south on Bristol and then east on MacArthur perhaps that would be better. Very nice nonetheless! It's like a modern CenterLine proposal.

[@RallyingforRail]

I very much appreciate the feedback, and I notice that you're not the first one to mention stop spacing either. If I do a follow up video on the proposal incorporating feedback (if I do that, I'll wait until after Classy Whale's video at the end of the contest), I'll need to consider stop spacing if others provide the same feedback. And yes, I had to make some difficult decisions and compromises with routing. You mentioned one, and I mentioned two others (not getting closer to Downtown Orange, as well as not serving certain parts of Irvine). Perhaps Orange County needs more than one light rail line (plus the OC Streetcar of course).

[@acaciafruit347]

@ Absolutely. I don’t know if you’ve seen nandert's latest video on the topic of future LA Metro projects, and those in the wider region, but he proposes 3 new lines for Orange County, including one based on the CenterLine, to better serve the county and its destinations. I highly recommend giving it a watch!

[@RallyingforRail]

@ I haven’t watched it but am giving it a watch. Thanks for the recommendation!

[@AAKlavier]

A very good, well-thought out idea. We just need to get the politicians all aboard. PS: AI pronounces Artesia "Ar-TEE-see-uh" and pronounce Cerritos "SIR-ee-tos" LOL

[@PDXLibertarian]

You're doubling a-lot of the catchment area of the WSAB. What I would do is a spur of the A line along the Pacific Electric ROW to CSULB, add a crosstown Long Beach subway, and then extend the C line to Santa Fe Springs and then NE to Whittier where there are major employment centers. Running at grade on Studebaker makes no sense, and if you really are going to do an at grade tram in that area, Lakewood Blvd makes more sense.

[@RallyingforRail]

@@PDXLibertarian I was originally skeptical of the SE Gateway redundancy feedback since that path wouldn’t head to Anaheim/Disneyland, but it keeps on coming up so I’ll need to address it (assuming I do a follow up video incorporating feedback, which I’m heavily leaning towards doing). Good news: today, I think I identified a way to accomplish one of my larger goals with the line (connect LAX to Disneyland) while addressing SE Gateway redundancy concerns. It’ll be weeks before any follow up video, so I’ll have time to think upon it.

[@JohnUnit]

my big worry with this is it's SO long that it causes a couple problems: 1. fragility. Living in Toronto, we see all the time where one crash or broken down unit shuts down most or even all of a streetcar line, and the longer the line, the more likely there is a blockage somewhere at any given time. A lot of your route really doesn't have much room for turnarounds or bypasses. Not a deal killer, but really makes me nervous 2. just how long a ride it would be. Sure, LAX to disney is a dream connection, as is John Wayne to the 'downtowns' of the OC and eastern LA county, but if it's a 1 1/2 hour ride, who does that make sense for? I'd actually be tempted to bury some of the denser stations, because street running this is going to be maybe the longest (in terms of ride time at least) lines in the world.

[@JohnUnit]

that said, I liked the video and think that as a couple different routes or with a few sections streamlined it could be something. And don't let the voice and pronunciation critics get to you. California pronounces everything goofy and your voice is fin.

[@RallyingforRail]

@@JohnUnit thanks for the feedback! Line length was something I debated internally, so the fact that it keeps coming up tells me that it’s not something to dismiss. Splitting this into two in some way might make sense, and I have some ideas as to how. I didn’t go into specifics of at grade versus overpass versus underpass versus below ground, but I definitely think places like Downtown Santa Ana and Downtown Anaheim should be underground, at least. And I have larger issues with many at-grade rail crossings and how it forces a lot of light rail to stop at red lights. But that’s a subject for its own video.

[@RallyingforRail]

And as for how I pronounced things, the big thing is that I get it right in the future. Especially Artesia. I have a feeling this won’t be the last time I mention Artesia on my channel, so I may as well learn to get it right.

[@djpetesake]

This proposal is insane but actually really good. Turn Metrocenter into a real Metro Center!!! and I disagree, the Main Place station has more than one purpose: to get cyclists to the Santiago Creek Trail! One concern that getting from OC to LAX would still take forever because of so many stops.

[@RallyingforRail]

@@djpetesake thanks for the feedback! I debated whether it was too insane but I thought to myself: “Ehh…I’ll just roll with it and see where it lands. The “so many stops” feedback is a common theme I’m noticing so if I do a follow up video incorporating feedback, I will need to take that into account. The good news was that when I took another look at my proposal again last night, I found a handful of stops that I think could be cut without too much controversy. And I could maybe find a few others to cut if I were more cutthroat with my stop locations.

[@GobbiExists]

The stop spacing shift is quite, well, drastic… If the A Line had the same stop spacing as your proposal’s stop spacing for this C Line extension it may very well have double the stations! Me personally, I don’t think that connecting to a bunch of bus routes is a good idea when you are tasked with providing rapid transit service to a landmass bigger than some countries with a mode like light rail, but again, that’s just my opinion. Those North-South and East-West connections are important, yes, but some are most likely more important than others. Maybe removing some stops that don’t have any bus connections would be a good step, and that infill stop you made shouldn’t exist to make faster service. Also maybe making the light rail faster in the highway median may be really good to make people want to ride it when driving on the highway, but that’s just me. The rest of this proposal is really great IMO, but maybe we could run a light rail shuttle to those places in Irvine you wanted to be served. Other than that, this plan is great (except how would the curves be built?)!!!

[@RallyingforRail]

I appreciate the thoughtful reply! Some bus connections are definitely more important than others. I'd be open to a proposal similar in routing but with wider station spacing, taking out the stops that connect to lower ridership buses in areas that aren't as densely populated. And I'd also be open to using some highway median, in cases where that doesn't compromise access to magnets for ridership. As for the curves, perhaps I have a false sense of confidence, but with light rail I'm not too worried about that. Downtown Long Beach on the A Line has 90-degree curves that trains are able to navigate, and I don't think any of the curves on my route are greater than 90 degrees. One advantage of light rail is its ability to navigate sharper curves than its heavy rail counterparts.

[@sameeruddowlakhan]

i'm not thrilled by the proposal. it's creative and out-of-the-box, sure, but i don't think we need any more massively-long light rail lines in socal. we need faster, higher-capacity lines if we're going to go such distances. also, as others have said, there's too much overlap between this extension and the SE gateway line. i think it makes more sense to have that line go "express" after artesia and hit only at most 3-4 more stations along the ROWs to disneyland. separately, as a linguist i did find it amusing (and not problematic! guys in the comments, know that everyone has their own pronunciations!) to hear some of the more unique / idiosyncratic pronunciations of street names in your video :) artesia - i say ar-TEE-zhuh, you say ar-TEE-zee-uh studebaker - i say STEWED-uh-bake-er, you say STEWED-bake-er cerritos - i say sur-REE-doze, you say SEH-ree-toze carmenita - i say CARM-uh-NEED-uh, you say car-MEN-tee-uh la veta - i say luh-VEED-uh (the same as how i say "livin' la vida loca"), you say luh-VENT-uh so fun

[@RallyingforRail]

I appreciate the feedback (honestly, I do). It somewhat mirrors a lot of the other constructive feedback I’m hearing, which is that it has too many stops. A couple of comments have also mentioned SE Gateway, which I was initially resistant to factoring in too much because it doesn’t go to Anaheim/Disneyland itself. But if people continue to raise SE Gateway I may need to revisit my initial thoughts. And yes, what an interesting language English is! Though if I do a follow up video making edits to my proposal, I’ll likely make a mention of the pronunciation piece, because I do want to get it right.

[@limeyprat]

Please learn how to pronounce "Studebaker" and "Artesia" When you speak I can hear the steam escaping....

[@FreeAnimalDoctor]

AR TEE SHA! Not ar teez e uh JFC.

[@Geotpf]

This is an incredibly dumb proposal. The first three stops are very near the last two stops on the already funded Southest Gateway Line, which should begin construction soon. Most of the rest of the line is in Orange County, not Los Angeles County, and therefore is simply not something that LA Metro is going to do, being out of their jurisdiction. Complete nonstarter of a project. The C Line should just go to the Norwalk Metrolink station instead.

[@Geotpf]

Oh, and the Southeast Gateway Project runs on the same disused right of way that the under construction OC Streetcar uses in its northern portion. If there would be a cross county light rail link in this general area, having these two systems meet somewhere near the county line with one going one single stop inside the other's county would be how this would be handled.

[@RallyingforRail]

@@Geotpf I did think about Southeast Gateway, a lot actually. The problem with it is that it would not come close to Disneyland or to Anaheim in general. And while I’m open to ideas on how to make the execution of how I do that better, one hill I will die on is the importance of connecting the metro area’s two busiest airports to a tourist destination that has an estimated 28,000,000 visitors a year. If just 7 percent of those visitors use light rail, that’s nearly 2,000,000 new riders a year.

[@azeeze1391]

Your voice is annoying.