A rare picture: an overhead shot of the Abrams prototype with 140mm gun

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Welcome back to the Defense news channel for a discussion about New rare images have surfaced online showing the M1 "Thumper" prototype, a unique variant of the legendary M1 Abrams tank equipped with a 140mm main gun and autoloader. Defense News is a KZbin channel dedicated to military world lover.
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[@Honoer]

War thunder be like, “not enough proof that it existed” to add.

[@JEFFNoTClick]

Yea an then puts maus turret into E-100

[@doodskie999]

Also Gaijin: Perfect for BR 5.0

[@mage_mini1945]

@@doodskie999Also also Gaijin: Yeah and now let’s add [Insert stupid paper tank here] and put it at 5.7

[@gilvietor1918]

Also Gaijin, make sure the optics are pure trash.

[@MexxiUK]

Gaijin: It has the best round in the game but no thermals so lets put it at 10.3.... Oh no wait, that's the Object 292.

[@mcburcke]

I'd forgotten about this variant of the Abrams. And yeah, the newest versions of ammunition for the 120mm are far better than past versions.

[@jonny2954]

Also the 120 mm guns. Abrams still uses the original license produced version of the Rheinmetall 120 mm L44. Since the L44 Rheinmetall improved that gun two times, one time lengthening it to 55 caliber lengths on the L55 for higher muzzle energy and then again in recent years with the L55A1 which uses a newer alloy that allows for higher pressures. Abrams was supposed to be up-gunned with the L55 back in the day but on trials they found out the stabilizer couldn't hangle the increased weight and needed a complete replacement which was deemed too expensive.

[@PugilistCactus]

​@@jonny2954 US didn't upgun because they didn't see any value in it. Primary role of the M1 was mostly anti-infantry and anti-infrastructure. Putting the longer barrel was too costly for benefits that don't apply to the forces they were fighting. It was adequate for what they were using the tank for.

[@jonny2954]

@@PugilistCactus Incorrect. The US did indeed trial the L55 designated M256E1. It performed better than the L44 across the board and the Army did want to switch to it, however the Abrams stabilizer couldn't handle the increased weight. That's because the US thought the L44 was too complex and expensive, so they modified the recoil system from the hydraulic one to what is essentially a big metal spring on the M256. However that changed the center of mass of the gun. The L55 was designed to have the same center of mass as the L44 so it could be easily dropped into the Leopard 2. It did not have the same center of mass as the M256, so they ran into stabiliser problems on the Abrams. The Army did propose to exchange the entire stabiliser to fit the new gun but that was deemed too expensive. Just to be clear: The Army wanted the new gun. In fact they shot their own leg, if they hadn't modified the L44 to begin with the Abrams would now have the L55.

[@PugilistCactus]

@@jonny2954 Its almost as if they decided cost/proformance weren't worth the trouble.

[@jonny2954]

@@PugilistCactus Well the Army wanted it, Congress said no. Certainly worth the trouble, especially the L55A1 now.

[@Ghent_Halcyon]

Progression in the 120mm ammo is not the actual reason. The actual reason was because switching to 140mm requires a completely new production. As well as the logistics to handle it. Not to mention there is no point if everyone else is also using 120mm.

[@jamesricker3997]

And a more advanced 120mm has better proformence

[@Ghent_Halcyon]

@@jamesricker3997 Uh no, that’s quite simply put not how that works. That’s like claiming that a 5.56 does the same as a .50 cal. In your attempt to sound smart you have Infact not.

[@dylannix4289]

⁠@@jamesricker3997 A shaped charge warhead’s performance is directly linked to its size. No matter how much R&D dimmadollars you throw at it. All things equal, a modern 120mm HEAT round will never be able to outperform a modern 140mm HEAT round

[@vurr9453]

@@jamesricker3997the modern M829A4 is still worse in comparison to the XM964 of the Thumper. Even then XM291 was designes to use both 120mm and 140mm with a change to the barrel.

[@knowahnosenothing4862]

@@jamesricker3997 Rheinmetall make 130mm with 40% more power and 140mm with 60% more power without using depleted uranium and that's amazing considering DM73 for the 120mm has 800mm penetration against RHA. The CATTB improved armor would just hold out against the 120mm with 1000mm of kinetic protection so the technology is moving forward.

[@RhodesianSuperiority]

Still more battlefield ready than the 2s38 gaijin

[@GlopPlopJop]

CATTB/Thumper is probably one of the most armored and THE deadliest abrams variant, god i wish the US continued on the Thumper

[@HanSolo__]

80t

[@jamieooh]

I went to the 1995 Armor conference at Ft Knox , Ky. There was a booth set up that showed a video of ammo being tested

[@HanSolo__]

120mm L55 is such a powerful gun we won't need any bigger for at least 15 years.

[@BOOGERBOY1]

Absolute beast along with challenger 2 and 3

[@tstahler5420]

I bet that'll loosen your teeth. We need it just because, Merica! 😂

[@julieinthenorthwest4594]

Try an old M-728 CEV. 165mm demolition gun creates a small mushroom when the round explodes. IIRC, the concussion area is 300m and it's meant to remove obstacles, including blocks of buildings. I had a CEV TC tell me that during Desert Storm they were told to fire and after firing, the 2nd ACR commander got on the comms and asked "what the hell was that." He replied it was the demo gun on my CEV. :)

[@igno_rant]

WarGaming added the CATTB Thumper to World of Tanks.

[@rpscorp9457]

Gaijin will never let this in game.

[@DemsRNutless]

A 5.5” projectile? Woah, that’s a lot of punch.

[@michaelanderson-l5u]

Someone at my work leaked this picture. We all had to sit in a meeting after this picture got posted to Reddit.

[@mikesbaseballcards]

My father an Army officer on his 2nd tour to Nam actually was invited by Gen. Abrams to have dinner with him & my father saved the invitation & i have the original he saved!

[@85daniel]

In the late 90s there was also a 140mm canon for the leopard developed. But the upgrade was canceled(leopard became an upgraded 120mm gun - L55) and Rheinmetall changed from 140 to 130mm for their current biggest gun. Why you need 140mm when 130mm have enough energy to blast the whole turret of a tank from its chassis.

[@jonny2954]

There is the French 140 mm ASCALON.

[@danthesilenthunter1561]

Because overkill is underrated

[@Marshmallow603]

it is not always for KE, high explosive and HEAT rounds would be much stronger with a 140

[@85daniel]

@@Marshmallow603 But the heat rounds need much more storage. I would say for heat rounds only nb would increase the caliber. Than we would still use the good old 105mm L7 gun on our tanks

[@Marshmallow603]

@@85daniel the 105 is only on light tanks, and now there is a light tank with a 120

[@qaskew24]

140mm gun? Damn.

[@lyn-jhonosia8981]

A picture with a thousand words!!

[@UnidentifiedGecko]

I was literally gonna say “So we a Leopard with this one” until he mentioned it lmao

[@mamarussellthepie3995]

So bootiful and ahead of it's time!

Other countries like Germany, UK and Switzerland also worked on the 140 mm tank gun for their tanks. The end of the Cold War also ended these projects.

[@jaripukki267]

They started again some programs. British going with rheinmetall 120 and germans making new 140mm for joint tank with France. Also 130 mm rheinmetall gun has been released. Still US paying royalties for germans, who most likely gave the gun plans like with 120mm Abrams cannon, which is designed by rheinmetall

[@85daniel]

@@jaripukki267 The 140mm is a french project only. They develop together a new tank but it seems the german forces prefer the 130mm Rheinmetall gun.

[@jaripukki267]

@@85daniel french project, but german gun design

[@knowahnosenothing4862]

@@85daniel German gun and chassis, French turret and sights.

[@KommandantGSR]

Americans: convinces nato to use the same calibers for everything, 152mm's, 82mm's, 7.62x51 / 5.56. also america after 30 years of development and production: .277 fury and 140mm calibers sounds pretty dope

[@FinsburyPhil]

If you want to see a big tank gun, have a look at the British FV4005 from the 1950's at the Bovington tank museum - 183mm (7.2")! It fired a 145lb HESH projectile.

[@efone3553]

What a stout looking tank!

[@astralthunder-pzbt]

Ngl that side shot looked like a leo with a cv-90105 Typa side profile

[@iamd3ad_ang3l10]

Did you know there was an abrams also called the thumper with a 152mm gun and had such an absurd firepower that it was seen as impractical for a mbt and the cost were absurd

[@bennuredjedi]

Funny how currently the Grench and Germans are actually going to put these calibers in production on the KF51 Leopard ARC and KNDS Ascalon 140 and 130 they are making the 130mm and 140mm standard, the Army need to stay abreast of these developments so that they don't get left behind again.

[@epicguy-nk7dd]

But why are they producing a more expensive tank with a bigger-than-needed cannon? After all, their enemies (Russia, China, Iran and many others) are "lackluster" in tank developement.

[@Killa842]

@@epicguy-nk7dd?

[@Marshmallow603]

@@epicguy-nk7dd no? one day russia might actually field the T14 (if they can even afford half of one after the war) and if they actually did something with its armor in the past 4 years it would be necessary to have a weapon to defeat it

[@epicguy-nk7dd]

​@@Marshmallow603 While it is true that some day Russian will field the T14, it will only field them in small numbers in the starting years (up to a battalion size). If Russia started producing T14s it would put a strain on the Russian Defense Industry, considering that a single T-14 costs up to as much as 4 T-72B3s. But hey, if it makes NATO feel safer.

[@SeanDailey-dy8tn]

Honestly, they should just use that instead of the Abrams X

[@aljaytomines6685]

Ah yes, better firepower than the M1 TTB

[@DavidDavidunderthebridgeChampi]

Now the French and others are developing a 140mm tank.

[@National.Cateography]

war thunder forums finna explode

[@Jugggernaawwt]

Cant wait for this to be an event vehicle in war thunder

[@jpavlvs]

There is a law of diminishing returns.

[@kawaii_milkshake2160]

Gaijin: Nah a real life prototype isnt enough "evidence" to add ingame Also Gaijin: Oh there's 1-2 T80 irl that got the upgraded thermals? Well all T80 varients get gen 2+ thermals.

[@darthtrudeau4907]

Wonder if the Abrams will ever get the L55 gun.

[@BlackRavenMilitary]

Wasn't the Thumper originally at Rank Destroyer or is it still is????

[@evilfingers4302]

I can see that monster being used as Mobile Artillery like the German PzH 2000.

[@patrickbateman4148]

Is it still a Rheinmetall Canon?

[@JoseLopez-mc7kw]

Last video roll cage needed box transport not round bar

[@StrikeBuster-b2b]

We've learned from Russian tank turret tosses that the autoloader is not a good idea.

[@PNolandS]

There is nothing inherently wrong with an autoloader, the issue is that Russian tanks use a carousel style autoloader. With a bustle style autoloader the blow out panels can still be incorporated for survivability.

[@jonny2954]

@@PNolandS Still more dangerous than manually loaded, except when the turret is unmanned of course. Because on manual loads HEAT rounds are stored with the warhead facing back while in bustle autoloaders with manned turrets (Leclerc, K2, Type 10) the warheads faced forward for the autoloading mechanism.

[@chadrowlett893]

I saw this in 1994! This is NOT new. You are 30 years behind the curve. Damn

[@datmedetbek5165]

Nowhere in the video he claims that CATTB and Thumper are new prototypes. Video just discusses new pictures of these vehicles.

[@igno_rant]

CATTB Thumper 0.o

[@uuzoo]

I would be curious how much this beast weighed, and if it had DU armor.

[@dylannix4289]

The Thumper is more of a mockup with no additional armor. Just like the Swiss RUAG Pz. 87-140 and German Leo2 KWS III

[@knowahnosenothing4862]

@@dylannix4289 It was planned to have over 1000mm RHA protection against kinetic ammunition in the turret cheeks and like double that against chemical shaped charges. Be interesting to see what the Demonstrator was configured as.

[@daniellucas8464]

Soo no-one else is asking g about the suspension? Is it hydro-numatic or just flogged out from 40 years of sitting g around and the extra weight? It had no chance of being adopted. The US would have to completely change its docturon from the ground up. 4 to 3 man crews would be too much of a change

[@itsuk1_1]

0:44 this autoloader is for 120 not 140

[@ralts6464]

Theyre already planning for 130mm anyway

[@scottshanklin5533]

It's badass enough as is but Merica we do this kinda thing , look out

[@Yeest540]

Next thing you'll hear is that they're strapping a 155mm artillery barrel to a tank.

[@americanadventureoutdoors4213]

They did that all ready !

[@hailexiao2770]

T30 heavy tank from 1945 says hi.

[@americanadventureoutdoors4213]

@@hailexiao2770 There were a few other Experimental tanks they had put the 155 on as well .

[@brealistic3542]

Too Bad Thumper !😎

[@MikaelLonely]

I believe one day that prototype abrams tank will become a limited EVENT vehicle in war thunder. Just like Object 292😅

[@nagasako7]

They should have at least made 3x squads worth. Just as US Army promotion and test squad. Like how USN might have a flag ship.

[@tomthepivotdude01]

Object 292 but on a M1 Abrams

[@johnroof2663]

What about the weight it would add to the M-1's chassis.

[@TMSRAGNAROK]

Need this in war thunder asap

[@Marshmallow603]

would be funny if they added all big gun tanks from all countries like the leclerc terminateur and leopard 140

[@carlfromtheoc1788]

I want someone clever and smart to figure out how to stuff a 155mm gun into an Abrams turret, and make the gun compatible with current US 155mm artillery rounds, inclusing smart rounds, bonus rounds, etc. as well as the usual tank rounds and ATGWs. The downside with bigger guns is that the tank will carry fewer rounds.

[@Vergil20000]

M829A4 is already at its peak performance in the 120mm DU versions and couldn't be upgraded no more. So it is most likely that we will see a 130mm or 140mm in the M1 Abrams.

[@Shaun_Jones]

There are plans to further increase the velocity of the 120mm, most notably the possibility of a more exotic propellant fired using a plasma igniter. Estimates are that it could potentially increase muzzle velocity by up to 50%. Increasing caliber is a tough sell because you lose ammo capacity and it’s a less efficient method of increasing firepower compared to a higher velocity. Besides, there aren’t really any tanks that require more firepower than the current 120mm anyway.

[@TrainsOnGoPro]

Gun size don't matter anymore today! One or two FPV drone You're screw.

[@AustinFarrara]

I font see the need for a 140 anytime soon because the 120 is doing great if anything the 120 in the abrams needs to be upgraded to the 129 L 55

[@aflyingcowboy31]

the L/55 isn't needed either. The US chose to specifically design rounds that defeat ERA, everyone else is more concerned with more RHAe penetration.

[@petergray2712]

​@@aflyingcowboy31The L55 is slated for the M1E3.

[@aflyingcowboy31]

@@petergray2712 says who? Imagine straight up making stuff up.... If the US was going to use a new cannon it is likely to be the XM360 cannon.

[@petergray2712]

@aflyingcowboy31 That is the weapon I'm referring to. Its specifications explicitly indicate that it is an L55 gun. It was on the AbramsX demonstrate, and every other NATO tank producing country country is switching to a longer barrel 120 mm or a larger 130 to 140 mm gun.

[@aflyingcowboy31]

@@petergray2712 Firstly, you need to be more explicit with these things, L/55 is always referred to when talking about the Rh-120 L/55. "Its specifications explicitly indicate that it is an L55 gun" Secondly, XM360 isn't overall that much longer then the M256 i.e. more likely a L/46, I have no clue where you get that it is a L/55. The XM360 will likely be considered due to it weighing less than the M256, then there is also the Electrothermal-chemical (ETC) potential aspect of it (these two reasons are likely why the Abrams X had the XM360).

[@Super_Idol]

oh no they got the dun dun dun dun du du du du

[@anthonylim151]

war thunder 👀

[@DayneJAH333]

Why we can build a new tank? A brand new tank

[@jamesricker3997]

Because the Abrams was designed to be modular and easily upgradable.

[@DayneJAH333]

@@jamesricker3997 It's not.

[@Lwaww]

Gaijon when?

[@Introvert0696]

It would wait kore than 90 Tonns

[@plutodestroyer12]

just get it over with and attach the 155mm already

[@JCT442]

I wonder how the Ukrainian war experience will affect the armored forces of the world... drones are pretty cheap and very effective.

[@buckshot9113]

so are 30mm airburst shells

[@Leupy]

this is the cattb i think

[@snowwhite7677]

Who exactly are we going to be shooting this at? The Russian T-55 & T-62 tanks which is all Russia has left? Chinese Tofu Dreg Tanks? Don't get me wrong, my 1st & forever MOS is 19k, that being said, I would rather have improvements to Active Protection & Anti-Drone systems installed instead of a bigger gun. The Drone Threat is being ignored by the US Military much like the Machine Gun Threat was ignored before WW1. Also, each time you go up in size on the gun, you loose ammo capacity. The 105mm we could carry 55 rounds, the 120mm went down to 40. This looks like a complete waste of money some slick Military Industrial Complex Salesman is trying to stick the US Taxpayer with.

[@buckshot9113]

Germany and France are also developing 140mm armed turrets for their tanks, not just us. We also have and are developing APS systems and anti-drone systems for armored vehicles. The drone threat is very much not being ignored, why do you think we finally got off our ass and accepted M-SHORAD?

[@corporalpunish6089]

But my tank goes to 11

[@JoseLopez-mc7kw]

Try auto loader new Abrams call hagar

[@jamesschenk]

Why didnt the army go for this tank

[@ImaStupidNobody]

The 120mm was chosen over the 140mm because it can carry more ammo with faster fire rate more preferable to fight against multiple Russian Soviet tanks at once. 120mm does better when fire rate is needed but 140mm can be brought back for more of a tank destroyer.

[@petergray2712]

The Cold War had just ended.

[@NoobNoobNews]

Notice that this tank has no armor, and it is in 1980s Army Green camo pattern with rust. It has been obsolete for some nearly 40 years. This 140mm Abrams was put together some nearly 40 years ago, and is now being dragged out of storage as "new." They said it was obsolete when the Soviet Union fell... not anymore? hmmm?

[@NewEnglandboy453]

okbuddy

[@Ungovernable_Schizo]

What are you going on about?

[@Molten_Slugger]

what

[@Marshmallow603]

take a look at ascalon then

[@JoseLopez-mc7kw]

SS-22 radio 📻 name and friend codename

[@barriewright2857]

Brilliant commentary and informative. The next question could this be resurrected and bought too full function for the US army. The next question is when will the USA have a dedicated air defence system like the sulca, tunguska, or the German gepard . The USA won't have or be able to maintain air superiority in the future or coming decades.

[@jamesschenk]

Bring it back

[@briancooper2112]

Not needed

[@Aldebaran80]

sincerely... in a battlefield where the most common is now using FPV drones to destroy armoured vehicles, it has no sense to invest in a more powerful barrel, Ukraine is the example, you won't see a lot of videos with a challenge between tanks... if US has a conflict against China, in a predominantly marine battlefield like the pacific, like in WWII against Japan, where the tanks where useless in the most of the cases, i don't see what can changes this 140 mm ammo... i would invest in better IFV and Artillery or HIMARS... because Ukraine war is an infantry war, with trenches and drones essentially... and a lot of artillery and guided missiles against the logistic routes...

[@klimentvoroshilov8273]

140mm only.... 😂😂😂 Cold war got 130mm, 152mm and 155mm tank guns... 😁

[@Marshmallow603]

yeah if you actually had something in your head you'd know that there is a reason why they're not used today, plus you said 130 which if you know basic math and are not 5 you should know it is smaller than 140.

[@davidmccracken4802]

It was garbage!!!! Auto loader didn’t work and made a thumping sound… hence the nickname!!!!!!

[@Marshmallow603]

40 year old tech that was abandonned btw...

[@samcam8284]

Will it be as 💩💩y as the current Abram’s.