A Raw Conversation with the Master Yoda of the Faith and LGBTQ Conversation: Dr. Mark Yarhouse

[@DanLee8884]

I will be upfront here. I grew in the church very conservative. I went through seminary and now I am as progressive they get. What brought me here is Dr. Yarhouse bc he is currently a faculty at Wheaton College which is close to my church. I wanted to know what his perspective was. It is fascinating to me that while I have heard 4 different talks by him I have rarely disagreed with him although I am certain we would disagree in the end. With this interviewer here, I sense this "rubber banding" way of thinking about lgbtq people like most conservatives I speak with. Even when people on their own side like Dr. Yarehouse clearly says he does not want christians to over emphasize causes like they are a fact, the interviewer here keeps coming back to, "it has to be more social influence." My belief is "sure, there are definitely people experimenting bc of the chnage in our society however more people do come out bc there are more safe spaces and support for them." This is the same thing with the connect between trauma and gender disphoria. It's the chicken and the egg. Most lgbtq people have mentioned health issues bc of the way they are treated and don't receive support. How the heck would u handle your parent disowning you or your church pushing u out? He keeps saying, "it seems obvious..." it really isn't that obvious. That is your way of thinking. All in all, I am willing to hear out people like Dr Yarhouse but I do feel like the science has never been the main problem. It's the theology and incorrect use of the Bible to clobber people with it that is the problem. As much as not doing what God calls us to do is a sin, so is using God's name in vain meaning saying God says something when God does not. Of course this doesnt mean it is a free for all. It means we listen to those who feel marginalized.

[@filipeterra2603]

I think Preston point is not saying that social influence plays a bigger role I think it is more of sexual identity as a social construct such as Foucault puts it in his History of Sexuality

[@Listenerandlearner870]

Change of orientation' is an imprecise term. A gay/ssa person may find a bisexual side if it exists to be found. If a gay/ssa person has no bisexual side to find, it wont be found. The emerging of alternatives to 'affirmation only' is very heartening, be they Christian or secular. Support including practical for detransitioners and those avoiding medical interventions is also heartening and needed. Post transition: I hope that no-one will imply that all Christians who have gone down a medical route have to detransition. Compulsory detransition would at least seem to be an imposition too far. The mental health and physical challenges could be too great. Such things drill down to what is possible for the person. Making it a rule that Christians would have to detransition would seem inhuman.

[@Jasminestealth1]

alex: i think no one can understand or truly understand the journey a person takes to align their bodies to they way that a transsexual journey does.... its like trying to speaking to understanding why one person finds another person arousal to another... I do not know if you have children, but i think for those who do... trying to guide others is to try and give the less challenging role.. and when it does suck, to encourage there is something greater to consider.... There is a real world.. and i would imagine, for those that have changed their entire world, to reflect their identity, and that result to have "fixed" those internal problems.. would be incredibly hard to change... but.. in the spirit of love.. try to understand the love behind the idea.. maybe not the idea itself... "the road to hell is paved in good intentions" :) but.. if you believe in Christ... then know.. he knows our hearts

[@js1423]

Are you planning on having James Cantor, Ray Blanchard or J. Michael Bailey for this issue?

[@rgmrtn]

While I wouldn't deny that Christians' sexual orientations can and sometimes do change, I'm probably incapable of taking it to heart after the hellhole of Quest Learning Center, Homosexuals Anonymous, and by extension, Exodus.

[@Jasminestealth1]

You realy believe someones sexual orientation can change?????? I will give you that in life, we will sacrifice, or accept things... to do "what is right" but the feeling... will not...but maybe as a person who has always loved vanilla ice cream.. may have not tried blueberry

[@rgmrtn]

@@Jasminestealth1 I don't get the sense that you read my comment carefully or at all.

[@Jasminestealth1]

I rarely every speak to my personal "trans" journey on the internet... and i feel as though my journey seems to contradict so much of platforms like this.. and people like DR MIKE... and i have tried to have my voice... my life journey... add to the "DATA" but NO ONE.. has ever asked me... No Study.. so i wonder... how would a person.. can add to the conversation.. add???? is it just the attention seekers? is it just those that have insurance? Is it those that answer some email? How does one add to the "real" conversation??? can DR MIKE give me some contact information of anyone doing the next "STUDY"???

[@keether1135]

My thoughts on the subject may seem simplistic and therefore not considered. We have before us two trees. The reality is you can seek answers from one or the other. The tree of knowledge of good and evil is one tree. I think most people are there eating the fruit thereof but help is never found, only a never ending tension with no hope for peaceful resolve. The other tree is the Tree of Life. Our greatest need is Life but we just don’t see it. We see science and knowledge as the place for resolve. So knowledge becomes our quest for harmony in relationships. But there is death in that fruit. It promises freedom but cannot deliver. The Tree of Life is Jesus Christ. In him is Life and that Life is the light that we all need. Our need is to move away from the tree of knowledge over to the tree of life. The One who created us knows us best and will guide the humble soul who turns aside and calls on the Name of Jesus Christ for help. Peace to all who take the Lord Jesus at his word. John 10:10.

[@Jasminestealth1]

interesting choice to follow.. if you read.. it says if they eat of the tree of life.. they will be like us... and to prevent that God put a flaming sword to guard that tree... People like you... who pick and choose the scripture.. to when its literal... when its a story... when it is God given.. when it is inspired... when contradiction... within the Gospels... is ok.. or when it is The HOLY WORD of GOD... pick a lane... atleast when you make such bold statements... state... "how i understand" .... "how, i read it" in the NIV or the NLT... or when i researched the hebrew... COME ON DUDE>>> you are so so so uneducated on the scripture... just be honest.. because.. from my perspective.. that is the point! We all have a personal journey with him, and you do matter! Your life matters because it is you!!! But dont try to explain it as your way.... is "THE WAY"

[@PacificNWesty]

Preston, what are your thoughts on the extensive work on this topic published by M.D. Perkins, Robert Gagnon, Nancy Pearcey, Rosaria Butterfield, Beckett Cook, Christopher Yuan. They have released some very fascinating material that speaks into this issue, and it all takes a firm Biblical position.

[@js1423]

Is it peer-reviewed? Or subjective theology?

[@PacificNWesty]

@@js1423 When you dig in and do the research for yourself you will discover some very well thought out arguments that keep solid Biblical theology at the center. These are well respected authorities on the matter, and at least three of the people I listed here share their perspective from their own experiences in their lifestyles. I hope you find this helpful. 😊

[@js1423]

@@PacificNWesty None of those guys are psychologists or sexologists. Perkins is a documentary-filmmaker. Gagnon is a New Testament-scholar. Pearcey is a author and apologist. Butterfield, Yuan and Cook all describe themselves as same sex-attracted but not gay (I don't see a big difference). Their testimonies are subjective claims, no different from leftwinger's claim of "your truth".

[@PacificNWesty]

@@js1423 I guess you can just ignore my recommendations then. Besides, they were directed toward Preston anyway. Have a nice day.

[@js1423]

@@PacificNWesty Becket Cook, Christopher Yuan and Robert Gagnon have all been critical of Preston and the entire Revoice-movement. Rosaria Butterfield held a big sermon in which she condemned both Sprinkle and Yarhouse.