A Response to Pulaski Heights UMC - Obligatory Reactions To Heresy & Bad Theology (Episode 2)

Рет қаралды 3,140

Күн бұрын

At the end of the UMC General Conference Dr John Robbins, the senior pastor of Pulaski Heights UMC, presented a statement concerning the events to his church. This video has garnered widespread support and praise from those who agree with the outcome of the decisions made at General Conference and has made its rounds around the internet. In this episode we look at the arguments made and see if they are biblically sound or if they fall short and why they do so.
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Пікірлер: 55

@JeffPospisil 3 ай бұрын

I know that a lot of the Old Testament is a foreshadow of what is to come. This year while I was reading through Leviticus, the diagnosing of leprosy reminds me a lot of how you should diagnose sin. If you have a question about whether or not something is sin, bring it someone very familiar with the Word. If it seems to be spreading (taking up more and more of your attention), deeper than skin deep (has become part of who you are), or is raw (you become defensive when it's brought up), it sounds like sin. Try abstaining from it for a week and see if it gets bettter or worse.

@mistersteve5354 3 ай бұрын

How i thank God for you guys! Stay faithful! The Church needs you men!

@deej7928 3 ай бұрын

TJ is such a treasure. What a fantastic blessing to have him in your congregation and partnership on the plainspoken project.

@terryrayowensjr 3 ай бұрын

Thank you for the kind words!

@cuatro336 3 ай бұрын

@@terryrayowensjr you're an edifying force to other young Methodist men, brother.

@eileenthrift8259 3 ай бұрын

The OT tells us of 3 kinds of laws: Ceremonial Law: This type of law related to Israel's worship. (Lev 1:1-13) The laws pointed forward to Jesus Christ and were no longer necessary after Jesus' death and resurrection. Though we are no longer bound to them, the principles behind the ceremonial laws, to worship and love God, still apply. Civil Law: This law dictated Israel's daily living (Deut 24:10-11); but modern society and culture are so radically different that some of these guidelines cannot be followed specifically. The principles behind the commands are to guide our conduct. Moral Law: The moral laws are direct commands of God. A good example is the Ten Commandments (Ex 20:1-17). The moral laws reveal the nature and will of God, and still apply to us today. We do not obey this moral law as a way to obtain salvation, but to live in ways pleasing to God.

@eileenthrift8259 3 ай бұрын

This pastor is comparing some scripture to another scripture like Hamilton's "buckets" without Godly discernment as to what God expects and requires. Eisegesis means "I don't like this scripture" or "this scripture is offensive to me." Therefore, I will ignore it. That is not showing a willingness to understand what God is telling us. There is no humility, only arrogance.

@carp614 3 ай бұрын

Your critique to some degree hinges on the inerrancy of scripture, but early in the discussion, you mention female methodist pastors. This makes me want to better understand the methodist case for female pastors. Because it seems like 1 Timothy 2:12 is not given much weight even on conservative Weslyan circles.

@boooshes 3 ай бұрын

God's holiness exists outside of us. Yes. The book of Job really drives this home for us.

@RGabeDavis 3 ай бұрын

This is the Catholic argument against Sola Scriptora. Everyone can decide what the Bible means for Themselves.

@fernandoperez8587 3 ай бұрын

Methodism consults Church history and tradition. Methodist are not among the radical reformers

@davewhite756 3 ай бұрын

@@fernandoperez8587 who are the radical reformers? Calvin's stuff come from Augustine. Authority not coming from apostolic succession is from Athanasius. The modern denominations agreeing on the God head and salvation by faith apart from works and bickering on non essentials looks a lot more like the early church.

@fernandoperez8587 3 ай бұрын

@@davewhite756 anabaptist and the like

@defid7793 3 ай бұрын

The tattoo thing is silly, read Acts chapter 15. It’s clear the only ritual restrictions for gentile Christians are sexual immorality and food polluted by idols. Unless you’re a Jew for Jesus there isn’t a problem.

@defid7793 3 ай бұрын

With that said I would not get a tattoo of someone who died.

@therealnotanerd_account2 3 ай бұрын

With time I am seeing more and more that Paul was right. Even my wife agrees that women should stay quiet in the church and should not have any authority.

@CFCMahomet 3 ай бұрын

This is the theological track that was available to folks in the UMC to empower them to defend these desicions to their congregations (UMC pastors I know told me as much). What’s most important as they navigate (and try to diminish OT texts) is to ask how Jesus would have thought of them?

@rpierce0419 3 ай бұрын

Narrow is the way and difficult is the path that leads to life eternal and few will find it. Methinks Pulaski Heights, a very wealthy congregation, has long been taking the broad and easy path.

@NicholasRailton 3 ай бұрын

The really frightening thing is that people sat, listened to this ignorant false teacher - and did not get up and leave.

@keithshank1783 3 ай бұрын

That pastor doesn't worship the Jesus of the bible. How can he? In light of how he openly grafts his personal bent on scripture

@Asinnersavedbygrace-lc1fy 3 ай бұрын

Great response to this sermon! I may suggest an analysis of this message to our worship minister (who plans the adult Sunday school lessons). I think we could spend several weeks discussing what Dr. Robbins says here and what the Bible says. I am only a little over 3/4 through your video, but I agree with at least 99% of what you have said. I don't necessarily disagree with the other one percent, but think there are some points that would do well with an in-person discussion (things that would not lend themselves well to a discourse over social media).

@pastorjerrykliner3162 3 ай бұрын

Where does "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" come from? (Leviticus 19).

@philiphepler 3 ай бұрын

Great points and discussion- but I'll disagree with your 'THE CHOSEN' comments- LOL I know there are many who are critical of THE CHOSEN, but in that series Jesus is not depicted as only meek and mild. Your criticism suggest you have not really watched much of the series. Especially season 4. -Just say'n

@Bill_Ivins 3 ай бұрын

Robbins deliberately misused the 1 Corinthians text to drive home his point. A care analysis of the text is not possible here. But when carefully read in its context, it appears that women were being disruptive because they were chitchatting. Understanding how a First Century synagogue also helps to visualize why that was going on...He then totally ignores that Paul ALLOWED women to prophecy! So what's going? Robbins twisted the text for his purposes. He uses this straw man and one on divorce to give him permission to condone homosexuality and so-called "gay marriage."

@eileenthrift8259 3 ай бұрын

Thank you. You have Godly discernment. There seems to be hatred toward female pastors, as evidenced by some of the comments. Paul also said, "There is neither Greek nor Jew, slave nor free, male nor female for we are all one in Christ Jesus."

@sheldon3996 3 ай бұрын

I enjoyed the discussion between you and TJ. I must disagree with you regarding the impact of divorce and remarriage on denominations and the visible church as a whole. Divorce has been around since before Moses, is contrary to God’s word and decree, and certainly has a negative effect on society and the church. Far more detrimental is the ordination of women. Female pastors have only been around for a relatively short period of time and every mainline denomination that ordains female pastors has fallen into apostasy. Eisegesis is the only way one could justify female pastors and that same reasoning subsequently justifies homosexuality and sexual immorality. I fear the GMC will also fall given its stated doctrinal standards. Also, just to point out, at 24:13 when you mentioned Jesus words regarding divorce in Matthew, you implied that those words were of greater importance than other God breathed scripture, directly contradicting your earlier statements.

@plainspokenpod 3 ай бұрын

Oh I definitely think Jesus augments how it is that OT law is to be interpreted. He says explicitly there that divorce was only given as a concession because of their hardheartedness. Well, now that there is a circumcision of the heart, that particular situation is changed. Just as dietary law was augmented because of a different nature of the new covenant, I think it seems pretty clear that Jesus did the same in the case of divorce. The approach I model here is one in which the OT concern stands, but it is interpreted through the lens of the NT. Hence, the stuff around leprosy, fabrics, etc. are concerns about purity that we mirror in a different way. Yet Jesus' teaching about the nature of marriage and of divorce seems to add some significant texture to OT teaching, thus creating new requirements. Admittedly, this is complicated. I don't imagine I have a simple formula for translating all things from OT to NT provisions. I'm just explaining why, to my mind, I'm not contradicting myself. I'm going to stay silent about the women's ordination bit.

@sheldon3996 3 ай бұрын

@@plainspokenpod I did not intend to imply that divorce is acceptable (except on the ground of sexual immorality), only that a wrongful divorce has a more limited impact on the church. It is certainly true that children of divorced parents are far more likely to divorce causing a snowballing effect. While preaching the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus teaches that the person looking upon another with lustful thoughts in their mind has already committed adultery in their heart, so too the divorced person commits adultery with whom they remarry. Later while speaking to the Pharisees, Jesus again extols the virtues of marriage, one man and one woman who become one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate. Jesus again states that the divorced person commits adultery with whom they remarry. In both cases, the group of people being addressed may or may not contain believers. The circumcision of the heart of stone is applied after regeneration. My point is that ordaining women has brought entire denominations into apostasy. Denominations that profess evil good and good evil. There is simply no comparison between the devastating effects of female ordination versus divorce. I fully understand your reasons to remain silent.

@markalexander832 3 ай бұрын

Who is the new host of the podcast?

@terryrayowensjr 3 ай бұрын

Jeffrey is still the host, I just do some editing every so often

@plainspokenpod 3 ай бұрын

He might be commenting on the haircut!

@markalexander832 3 ай бұрын

@@plainspokenpod Right! With the haircut and shave, I hardly knew you!

@robertkersten3971 3 ай бұрын

So many problems with this guys sermon, I don’t know where to begin. First of all this type of sermon is intended to play off the average modern pew sitter’s Biblical ignorance. To contrast OT ceremonial, and civil law to the NT freedoms that we have in Christ is pure deceit in an effort to justify sin. Obviously there aren’t many “Bereans” in that congregation. Secondly he shows how clergy have misused the so called “Wesleyan Quadrilateral “ to theologize their new interpretation of Scriptures. His puts his own reason and experience on the same level as Scripture. This is whole line of reasoning is why the UMC is on a track away from Christ. Pray that these folks as well as other believers in similar congregations wake up before it’s too late.

@roscoe268 3 ай бұрын

Death is too late. Any of us could go at any time, but it looks like many in there are getting real close.

@ontoanewlife 3 ай бұрын

If all Scripture is God uttered and of holy value, how do you theologically evade the Scriptural qualifications of pastors being one man married to one wife and ordain women pastors? I do love your talks, but when you said you theologically can rectify woman pastors, I stopped listening to your review of the Pulaski H sermon. .As concerns women's role in the church, it seemed you bowed to the feminist movement. I would rather take what God clearly lists as qualifications for pastors, than find a theological way around it.

@terryrayowensjr 3 ай бұрын

You should definitely finish the rest of the video. I’m not going to speak for Jeffrey, I’ll just speak for myself, I’m not in favor of ordaining women. I’ve become more clear over the years that there isn’t getting around 1st Timothy 2, it’s not a cultural thing and he wasn’t just talking to a particular church, he specifically references genesis. We, or at least I intentionally tried to move past that issue because it would require a whole video or at least a series of videos a on that topic alone. I think it, like the divorce issue is something Methodists need to reassess. Unfortunately I don’t see that happening, at least right now.

@ontoanewlife 3 ай бұрын

@@terryrayowensjr Thank you for your reply,, which put my concern to rest. I will finish the video> I was distressed that the SBC voted to allow ordination of women pastors. That step seems the first step down the rocky road of Biblical foul play. I would think it would be hard for the GMC to backtrack on the ordination of women pastors,, but I hope they can ignore the outcries of feminists and do it.

@ontoanewlife 3 ай бұрын

I just wanted to say I am Muriel, the woman in the photo. I just didn't want any readers who didn't agree with my words to blame my husband.

@jameshhenderson8243 3 ай бұрын

Everyone has forgotten about Deborah, the judge.

@ontoanewlife 3 ай бұрын

God chose Deborah to be a prophetess and a judge. A particular appointment because He knew she would carry out his will. He specifically chose all the judges. God has another plan for the role of men and women in His church. God’s choice. That is how I view it.

@roscoe268 3 ай бұрын

Those sleepy folks in the pews are like sheep being devoured by this wolf in bow tie clothing. First they should check out Acts 7:51, then Proverbs 9:10, Psalms 2:11, Psalms 119:120, and finally Philippians 2:12. We all will approach The Lord with fear and trembling, either here on this earth, or on Judgement Day, and most likely both for even the best of us! I know I'm going to be just like the cowardly lion making that long walk up to face Oz!