A Simple Deer PROOF Garden!

Here is the real way to keep deer out of your garden for good!!
#garden #gardening #gardeningtips #deer #veggies #selfsufficiency
Here are some of the items we use in our garden!
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Electric Wire: www.amazon.com/Fi-Shock-FW-00...

[@davidhall6475]

I place 8' tall posts at corners, and if necessary, centered between corners. I screw in a hook into each post near the top. I hang 1/2" grid , 10' wide black nylon "deer fence" onto the hooks, wrapping the garden. I have woven into the top of the fencing a nylon rope, which makes a complete run around the garden, to hold the fence up. This allows the fence to hang loosely to the ground. To enter the garden, I just lift the bottom and duck below it. Deer have never entered my garden space. I remove the remove the fence in fall after garden season. I have used the same fencing now for 6 years and it is going strong.

[@glorialiving]

That’s awesome! I love that idea! We have some pesky ground hogs, I wonder if they would go under the fence. But I love the idea of being able to put the fence up and take it down so easily!

[@ozarks_homesteader]

At any given time we can see up to 19 deer at a time in the meadow on our Missouri Ozarks property where we have our garden. But we have never had a deer breach the garden's defenses. We do something similar to what this video is about, but without the second, outside perimeter fence. We have 8ft T posts pounded in around our 60x60 garden area, with deer netting as the fencing. We tried the bird netting that was illustrated in this video, but found that it is miserable stuff to work with. We got deer netting instead. It comes in 100ft rolls, that unfolds to 7 ft tall, and is a heavier material than the bird netting, and much, much easier to handle. After pounding in, the T posts are about 6ft tall. I hang the netting so that the leftover length drapes on the ground to act as a deterrent against smaller critters trying to come in. We finish that off with one electric wire about 4-6in from the ground as an extra deterrent against rabbits and groundhogs. Like I said, we've never had a breach in two seasons since implementing this method. I've watched deer as they approach the fence. They could easily jump it, but what they do is come up to it, touch it with their noses, get confused about what it is, then back away and leave it alone, because they don't know how to deal with it. I totally agree with others' comments about the deer becoming used to us humans and not being easily chased away. They are even getting used to our German shepherd dog. They run away if she chases them, but they keep on grazing in the meadow if she doesn't see them. Excellent presentation, BTW. I'll be checking out some of your other videos.

[@sjfiet]

I lived in NC and there were deer everywhere. I looked a the DNR and they posted about the fishing line. It needs to be 30 lb. line. That hits the sweet spot of not too big to see, but strong enough to avoid breaking. We have pictures of deer outside the garden, but never an incursion. It does work and it is very cheap.

[@darrellluck7230]

Mother Earth News started in the early 70s - an incredible resource! When my copy arrived in the mailbox, I dropped whatever I was doing and read it cover to cover. A huge influence in my life!

[@BaroneTripcom]

We put in used oak pallets horizontal one foot deep around the garden. We filled any gaps or knots with planks from other disassembled pallets. So the solid pallet fence is three foot high. No more ground animals. Then we put in poles in the pallets. Then we put in the fishing line around the fence at 4', 5' and 7' . No more deer.

[@C5Rose3]

This sounds so easy. How does it Keep Rabbits and groundhogs out though?

[@BaroneTripcom]

I guess the rabbits around here won't dig the one foot under pallet, nor do they try to climb the three foot over the pallet.

[@MiTeeVideeO]

Young Lady, you are absolutely co-rec-ta-mon-do (correct) when you said somethings about the Ozark Couple > Living Traditions Homestead

[@kelisurfs247]

You are so adorable 🥰 Love your channel. Keep up the good work!

[@evelyncoutta474]

Thank you for sharing this information

[@claireryan8074]

I live in Maine, plenty deer in our neighborhood. This simple fishing line fence works perfectly in our raised bed and it’s easy to weed or pick veggies through it. Lasts all season, too.

[@virginiamoss7045]

The space between the two fences should be less than 4 feet, not 5 or 6 feet, so that their body length is too long to fit between in order to make the second jump. Also, if they can't see clear landing space on the other side of any fence, they won't jump; they are super concerned about breaking their thin legs so rocks or other structures like my concrete block raised beds deter them. I've got two herds of deer which regularly cross my 5 wooded acres. In 10 years none have ever jumped my 5' fencing which is 6' high cheap chicken wire on 5' posts so that the top foot flops over to the outside so that climbing critters get to the top and can't find a way over due to being trapped where the fencing flops over. To keep rabbits and other digging critters out I buried 18" wide strips of hardware cloth in a long "L" shape at the base of the chicken wire with the bottom of the "L" sticking outward from the fencing 6" and the long part of the "L" (12") sticking up 6" above ground; they dig down the 6" to hit 6" of horizontal hardware cloth and give up. My only problem is squirrels and birds. The does spend their summers around my house with their fawns; the coyotes won't approach the house so I think they feel safer there. Then they go elsewhere in fall, winter and spring.

[@danielwoolman8969]

I do 6ft by 6t fenced-in square plots, and it works fine. The deer here are so bad they even eat plants like Rhubarb.

[@joshuaclark1696]

Hey, congrats on the channel! Good idea on the deer proofing. Will have to try it to protect the squash...they apparently like the blossoms off butternut...

[@niklar55]

I live in the Dordogne 'Parc Naturel' in France, and deer, and wild pigs are the main problem. Rabbits are very few, if ever. The farmers use a white tape with wire included that they electrify to keep their cattle confined, but deer just jump it unless there are several levels, which is expensive. I found that a 2 meter (80'') wire mesh fence kept the deer out, and I also grew blackberries along, and through it, to add to its strength, and obscure the view. (Deer don't like jumping into something when they can't see what's there.) So I get a good crop of berries for jam every year. Alternatively one could use roses I suppose, as they are less rampant than blackberries, but deer will eat roses, or so I'm told. The posts were cheap, just Hazel poles cut from my own land. (Hazel lasted longer than Oak, which surprised me.) Also Hazel coppices readily, and regrows rapidly. Hazel poles lasted about six years untreated, and into earth. Treated and set in concrete they would probably last longer, but at greater cost and difficulty replacing.. .

[@n.r.6833]

Good edit! 👍

[@pierresavoie3670]

About 4' between two fences with the outside fence being higher has worked well for me. Also worked for elk.

[@nel6211]

The double fence trick is a tried and true method. You garden looks great. What do you like to grow?

[@glorialiving]

We were thankful to come across the idea because it’s totally saved our garden! This year we grew cucumbers (way to many haha), peppers, tomatoes, zucchini, squash, tomatoes, corn, beans, and some more! Beans were one of our favorites to do!

[@svetlanapil8089]

Our lot is basically wide open and since we live in Colorado with very scarce vegetation, deer eats everything, not only vegetables but things they don't normally like to eat. I'm only hoping to have a luch greenery around the house like you have . I have to fight with a lot of factors to get the garden of my dreams going and deer is one of the biggest problems. I came up with the idea to build a picket fence with an eyebrow trellis. I think that should do the trick. Altought fence is going to be only six feet tall, the added width to it should deter them from jumping over. After watching video and reading comments I think I'll also do some obstacles around the inside perimeter, just in case. Thank you!

[@godschild6694]

Tried double fencing in NW Arkansas. It worked for about 6 weeks.

[@jensmith4005]

We wrap 30 lb test fishing line around t posts at 1' intervals. Knock on wood, it's worked for 5 years. Thanks for the ideas just in case.

[@glorialiving]

That’s awesome!! Such an affordable way to keep them out. I hope it works for many many more years! 😁

[@glorialiving]

That’s awesome!! Such an affordable way to keep them out. I hope it works for many many more years! 😁

[@monicajoy77]

How high up is the string?

[@jensmith4005]

@@monicajoy77 6' from ground

[@drozcompany4132]

Regarding the Irish Spring soap thing. First time I heard of this was when we did a wine tour of a large commercial vineyard and they had the soap hanging there around the vines. The owner was saying it definitely worked for them, so YMMV.

[@lindajoe9862]

Yes, I watched Living Traditions Homestead build the two fences to keep predators out.

[@marybethskarke5791]

Where I live in the central Texas Hill Country, our deer pressure is insane. I’ve tried most of the common hints. My deer actually ATE the Irish Spring soap! I’ve planted “deer resistant” landscaping that they sometimes eat anyway. I’ve had no intrusions into my vegetable garden that is single fenced with t-posts and welded wire fencing 5 ft tall. I have a small open area in there but most of the area has something, either a bench or the raised planting beds, set about 4ft in from the fence, and about 27” tall. It serves the same purpose as the double fencing in making them not want to risk a bad landing or getting stuck. The only varmint I’ve had an issue with and just this year is a rock squirrel who has no problem fitting through the fencing, and he really enjoyed my Roma tomatoes. I may need to do a chicken wire bottom. Other squirrels just haven’t been a problem but this one is a troublemaker.

[@youtubeKathy]

I live also in TX hill country….I was all set on planting a Wax Myrtle hedge. Everything I read said it's deer resistant? but after a week, one was stripped bare this morning. I really wanted a privacy screen, I hope I don't have to resort to a fence after all.

[@marybethskarke5791]

You might need to rig up something at least temporarily. I planted a small hedge of Texas sage along our driveway that they chewed pretty good until I used fencing. I’ve had the exact same shrubs for years by the side of my house and they’ve never messed with them there, but found these irresistible, I think because they were new and also in an open area they pass through regularly. Against the side of the house they’re not as noticeable…in theory anyway. I’ll probably have to protect them until they’re large enough so they can’t kill them. Sprays work but you really have to keep on it…even stuff that supposedly isn’t washed off by rain needs fairly regular application as it weakens. I wish you luck!

[@youtubeKathy]

@@marybethskarke5791 thanks so much! I was losing sleep over this.

[@dustyflats3832]

Resistant ideas don’t work in WI either. We have not so tasty natural plants in the area and we are the salad bar. Yes, I’ve seen a deer spring up over a 7’ fence at a standstill. They can clear 12’ at a run. They have poor depth perception and won’t jump into a confined spaces. We use 7’ wire fence and the garden is full so they haven’t jumped. I’ve heard they get hurt on double fence method. We’ve had deer get caught on hog wire fencing along property and break a leg. They have less ability to jump high uphill. If using lower fence using things at the top can deter them. Electric fence is effective at nose height of a deer about 4’. The most sensitive area on a deer is their nose and once zapped they won’t try again. Everything else they get use to. We then have to use poultry fencing for rabbits. The small ones fit through 2x4 wire fencing. If you are protecting landscaping, remember in the winter snow allows rabbits to get over low fences😊

[@mrplisken1100]

In my City, deer walk down the sidewalks like humans and are unafraid of dogs. Your suggestions seem like a lot of work that can clutter a small urban area. I love your portable electric fence idea - Thank you.

[@larryknox2430]

This black plastic mesh has worked for us here in Central Texas where deer are abundant and almost fearless. This year a squirrel has got in and dug holes close to seedlings that had to be replanted. So far that's all he has done. Texas spiney lizards get stuck in the mesh. I've rescued 2 of them and put them on a tree where I had placed about 20 baby lizards I came across while moving a dirt pile. They eat bugs for a living.

[@diceportz7107]

I have 8' T-post with 5' horse fence about 18" off the ground. I use a 2' chicken wire at the bottom and then, I have extended the posts and have 2 courses of wire around the top about 2 feet apart. I have tried bird netting and they run through it. Same with deer fence. I had to go wire fencing.

[@angmoh69]

Thanks for great content. We have a dog playing a lot outside, marking nilly willy around the perimeter of our grounds. While our neighbours have deer eating their plants, that has thus far never happened in our garden. I wouldn't be able to say that this works for all, but here it seems to make a huge difference. So get a good dog, preferably one with a touch of separation anxiety so that it don't run away 🙂

[@paulsherrod1365]

East Tn. Me too ,howdy neighbor

[@linreuther6453]

I really liked your video,and appreciated you going through some solutions that did not work for you.

[@shermanhofacker4428]

A drive way alarm with a dog bark sound has worked for my son's garden along with clippings of dog hair from groomers scattered around.

[@minnesotasalamander5913]

Good suggestion.

[@Mariefrancegrsce]

I'm tired 😫they ate everything .. thanks 😊I will try.

[@beebop9808]

About 3 tablespoons of Dawn dish washing liquid in a couple of gallons of water works very well. Also repels some insects and kills some insects. The deer apparently don't care for the scent at all. Draw back is you need to respray every 4 or 5 days or after rain.

[@kenr4540]

This was a very nice informative video! Can you please post the website links to the all the products that you have used in your garden?

[@glorialiving]

Thank you! I just put them in the description, thank you!

[@kenr4540]

Thanks so much.

[@dano956]

so much misinformation out there, our deer wont run away when I throw rocks at them so why would you believe a bar of soap or a pie plate would deter them? I had moderate success with fishing line but like everything else they eventually get used to it. I am considering your approach for next year, Thanks for sharing.

[@e4d578]

Being succint is helpful.

[@carmyn692]

I love the supercheap! 😅 I also made a fence with deer fencing and pvc pipe. It's only 5' tall. However, part of that bad depth perception applies to perceived obstacles, too! So, instead of two fences, I only have one. I grow or place things so deer can't find a suitable place to jump in. Like, about 12" inside the fence I'll have a trellis of beans, or some okra, maybe a tomato cage around a pepper, a wicker chair, a wheel barrow, a birdhouse, even the hose! Of course, i never grow food on the fence! The things change and they're randomly spaced apart, since deer won't jump between things either. 😃

[@marytorg]

❤do birds get stuck in the deer fence? We had that problem with our blueberry cover.

[@glorialiving]

Great question! I have not seen that yet or found andy injured birds. Thankfully! Dragon flies do sometimes get caught, I’ve had to help a few out. We don’t have fruit in this areas though, so it might not be as tempting to them! Blueberries are hard to say no to ☺️

[@trader_joan]

Those people talk about what works for them. Why not just use ALL your time to talk about the solution that works for you instead of bashing other people’s experiences.

[@billb945]

The rabbits and woodchucks just push thaat chicken fence up out of their way. The deer need a safe place to land when they jump. I didn't have a problem with deer until I removed three rows of grape vine trellis which gave them a clear, safe spot . I kept finding dead snakes caught in that bird netting so I don't use it near the ground any more.

[@angelad1008]

Deer fencing also makes great bird netting for cherry trees 🙂. Bird netting is always too small and too costly in comparison.

[@lindamoses3697]

Get silver streamers or make them from a silverplastic survival blanket and string them around the perimeter of the garden. Deer hate them. My sister put garlic and onion alternately starts or bulbs around the perimeter of her gatden in the mountains of Idaho. The deer stayed away.

[@crowznest438]

We didn't have these rats on steroids when I was growing up, never saw one until I was an adult. We used to have gardens without fencing at all and only had to deal with the odd rabbit or groundhog. Now, I have a federal style fence angled at the top but without the razor wire. Even had one deer jumping through the angled wire until I put an additional electric wire fence a foot in front of the other one. It's complicated and ugly but at least my garden grows.

[@TheBr20042003]

I tried the soap and came back to a half eaten bar with teeth prints. I dont know what was curious about the soap, but I guess it took them a while to realise that it wasn't good.

[@glorialiving]

I can’t believe they ate it! I’d love to know which creature decided on that 😂 it’s hard to predict what these animals will do!

[@tparentful]

Skunk love Irish soap. Maybe that.

[@dezlienimmo7085]

What do you suggest to use for the groundhogs?

[@NanaWilson-px9ij]

A rat terrier.

[@lpmoron6258]

@@NanaWilson-px9ij what a rat terrier going to do? Chase him off? I have always heard that a ground hog will kill a dog.

[@glorialiving]

We have some very big ground hogs that live next door. They didn’t get into the garden this year. It’s hard to know exactly what kept him out for us. It could have been our electric fence, he’s pretty chubby, so that bottom wire may have taught him to stay away. We also had the woven weed fabric on the ground, so maybe he knew he couldn’t surface Inside the garden? Ive heard of people folding chicken wire onto the ground next to the fence so that when they go to dig, they run into the chicken wire. We didn’t do that this year, but I wonder if it would be affective as well. Ground hogs are tricky!

[@dustyflats3832]

Live trap using cantaloupe or any fruit or marshmallows.

[@45valk]

@@lpmoron6258a ground hog won’t kill a dog 🤦‍♂️, I’ve lived with and around them my whole life. I watched a rat terrier take a full grown Doberman and sent him squealing. This 3d effect really works.

[@heatherc2]

Research using herbs as smell and bug repellent yet also good bug encouragement, it worked great until I harvested too many in one day. That being said next year I will have ones for harvest and ones for staying by means of a system. It works well for different animals with no chance of harming them.

[@hippiegirl5167]

I knew someone that planted certain food in the woods for the deer to keep them out of their gardens

[@scottrichards3587]

Deer rely more on smell than sight. Wolf urine from hunter supply stores works well. Reapply after hard rain.

[@haroldstewarttheblueshound3619]

Deer decimated my new fruit orchard 2 years in a row, eating all the leaves & rubbing the small trunks, killing the trees & costing me $1000s in wasted expense & effort planting them. I tried everything (motion lights, alarms, motion-activated Halloween figures, predator pee, deer repellent liquid, etc.), & nothing worked for more than a week... I reluctantly tried hanging bars of Irish Spring soap from each tree, thinking it sounded dumb, but to my disbelief, I haven't lost a single leaf this year & my orchard is flourishing. I don't know about gardens, but for a completely unfenced fruit tree orchard in Ohio, I can personally endorse the Irish Spring method because I've watched it working, myself. It seems they don't like the smell. (The bars fall apart & do need replaced annually, but a 12-pack of soap is much cheaper than all the other options I've tried, & I don't need constant vigilence of my orchard day & night.) For me, it worked great.

[@glorialiving]

That’s awesome! I’m so glad it DID work for you!! So sorry about the destruction and loss though. I’m glad you found a solution though!

[@haroldstewarttheblueshound3619]

I'm putting in a huge garden right now behind the orchard, so I think I'll try the double fence idea. It'll be a hassle cutting the grass between the fences, so maybe I'll mulch it all. I also thought of the electric fence idea, but with small kids running around it's not an option...

[@TPWW-tr3rr]

I use an ELECTRIC FENCE.

[@jwatkins672012]

Yup, been telling people this solution for years.

[@coloyikes]

My goodness congrats That is the longest I have seen to tell a 2 minute story.

[@eugeniebreida1583]

Yep. So I skipped and instead read the wise comments : )

[@christineschueneman4147]

I use coyote urine and it great!

[@glorialiving]

That’s very cool that it works! It’s such a relief when you find something that works!! Does that scare off the smaller creatures too? We have quiet the collection of wildlife near our garden!

[@NanaWilson-px9ij]

Using plain ammonia applied as if a large animal is marking it's territory around our duck pen. I also walk our large dogs in the area for extra marking.

[@svetlanapil8089]

​@@glorialiving, it keeps rodents away. I wouldn't use it on food thought, and you have to reapply it often. Good for smaller flower bed, not for the vegetable plot, I would say. I used granules and they also are quite expensive.

[@davidmantooth1285]

Looks like I'm the first to comment. In my garden every ear of corn was eaten by some creature, it was probably deer. I was considering not having a garden next year because of it. Really good ideas here that I have not thought of. The electric fence is out because I have a plot in a community garden and there are many human passers by who could get a shock.

[@glorialiving]

It’s so hard to keep the animals out! ☺️I’ve seen this concept applied with two fences that were both “non-electrified.” It’s definitely wise to avoid the electric fence where people may bump into it! I hope you have a better time in the future keeping the hungry critters out ☺️

[@davidmantooth1285]

glorialiving Another thing I saw for the inner fence is a stainless steel wire above the chicken wire. Raccoons hate that.

[@glorialiving]

That is good to know! We have lots of raccoons around there too. So many garden predators!

[@jdp35226]

This makes too much sense. Deer are a flight animal with their eyes more on the sides of their heads. This gives the deer a very wide field of view. Predator animals have their eyes on the front of their heads. It takes two eyes on one object to be able to determine distance or depth perception. The overlap area of both eyes for a deer is small. When running forward deer can do OK jumping over objects as we have all seen. But forward is the only area deer have any reasonable depth perception. Predators...like us... have eyes on the front and can easily tell depth perception. Thank you for the well developed video.

[@darrellluck7230]

You could go wider than 6 feet with the double fence, if inside you had some goats and a Great Pyrenees living happily together. I don't think any deer would venture in there.

[@AndyFetisov]

Vietnam spike trap, that’ll solve pretty much everything.

[@kevinmarcoux7211]

LOL

[@bartsexton1652]

The fishing line don’t work . The deer eat both my gardens corn . Had fishing line around two different gardens and they either jumped it our broke through.

[@rtshaw3621]

Could have been raccoons also they are sneaky too.

[@whitelightning3263]

Put a few Billy basses around the garden and the fish will scare them away.

[@sheilapetite6629]

I wish you could show more views of your garden so we can see more clearly.

[@glorialiving]

That’s a good tip! I’m thinking about redoing this video and making it a little more compact. If I do then I’ll try and get more shots so it’s easier to see! ☺️

[@MrElemonator]

Get a good cat or dog. Nothing more rewarding then a team effort. 🇺🇸

[@lpmoron6258]

We have deer and raccoons ground hogs and squirrels gophers and fire ants. It's a challenge.

[@timpruitt5783]

Put some peanut butter on your electric fence. The deer won’t mess with your garden.

[@Aemolya]

With the cost of double fence plus solar generator your vegetables become as expensive as gold. 🤣🤣🤣

[@glorialiving]

I can understand why you might think that, but it’s not quite as expensive as you might think ☺️ with that being said, that’s why I made sure to mention that you don’t need to do electric fencing on the outside of the garden for the second fence, but could repeat the cheap inner deer fencing on the outside ☺️ that would certainly make it more affordable and would still be affective, thankfully! Just in case this clears this up, we grew tons and tons of organic food in there that would have cost us hundreds and hundreds of dollars from the store. Plus all our equipment is reusable for years to come, so that also helps tremendously. Personally, our solar energizer was invested in for future use with livestock, so that’s an added bonus for us. Anyways, I felt like I was picking gold when I harvested this summer 😎 haha Thanks for watching!

[@dustyflats3832]

@@glorialivingI’m with you on that. Plants are expensive, be it food or landscaping and I’m not into feeding deer. They eat Everything! I’m now trying to plan a courtyard and not feel fenced in to keep the deer And rabbits out. I wish I could plant freely, but Everything needs a barrier.

[@Nightowl5454]

🦌🦌🦌🏹🏹🏹🔪🔪🔪🥩🥩🥩🤣🤣🤣

[@rtshaw3621]

love the effort of your reply!

[@user-ly9nh9ss7q]

Put the deer in the freezer. They are food too you know.

[@jasoncapps3516]

So, you're going to put a stand on your garden and man it 24/7. 😂

[@45valk]

3d effect

[@jonathanleonard1152]

Deer proof does not squirrel proof.

[@Aemolya]

One local handyman simply shoots deers coming close to his garden. He has plenty of free meat plus deer-free garden… Personally, I find it unacceptable.

[@ScottWConvid19]

You're basically using a stick and a string to stop the deer. This is a less effective way to use a stick and a string than how men have been using em throughout history. 🏹🦌 Meat and potatoes are basics

[@JohnBean-hm1sm]

Please get to your points faster.

[@talusranch990]

Yeah, how dare she do that

[@rtshaw3621]

Ok the beginning had me but you divert into electric wire and you say it's affordable? Not for a renter no Lost me at at hat point I'll read the comments and learn some from them.

[@glorialiving]

Just so you know, and I believe I say this in the video, you dont need to use the electric fencing on the outside. The point is the double fencing. ☺ You could easily use the same mesh fencing for both the inside and outside. We did the electric fencing because we will use that solar energizer in the future. (Plus we wanted as much protection as possible since we do not live at the location of our garden) Some people do metal fencing for both fences. We rent too and are by no means wealthy, but at that time we were able to make that investment. I hope this helps, but more than that I hope that you find a way to protect your garden that works best for you! (And is as cheap as possible ☺)

[@user-yd6sj3pe4j]

U should laud all creatures on earth deer 🦌 is fine

[@99suspects]

Getting to the point is a real problem for you isn't it?

[@kapj1189]

Not being an asshole is a real problem for you isn’t it?

[@charlescooper6600]

She talks too much before getting to the point

[@mrdill7792]

I’ve used yellow caution tape for years. Idk why but they’ve never jumped just a 4’ fence with yellow caution tape.

[@charlesguill8779]

U talking alot but not saying anything

[@arisingnextlevel6765]

She Talks too Darn much -- Get to the point already Or get a Talk Show 🙆

[@jasoncapps3516]

Dang you talk way too much

[@Raspukek-fu8un]

my garden every ear of cormy garden every ear of cormy garden every ear of cor

[@Raspukek-fu8un]

yes yes obhs

[@mrdill7792]

So simple it took 18’min