A Slow and Gradual Change to the Meta (Forts Pro League CAT vs GRL) - Forts RTS [193]

[@mauriziomartini3973]

That "fire beam eats aa bullets" strategy is genius

[@FireBeam]

When you can time it to eat cannon rounds, it's legendary 😉😃😃

[@DoubsGaming]

That's what I'm sayin'

[@knatureknight7504]

One of the howitzer rounds got set in fire and set fires were it landed 6:46

[@bluerabbitz1380]

Can we talk about how perfect the bottom base player covered the nukes on last round ? x)

[@rockysmith6105]

Yes, it was very satisfying, the smoke launchers and firebeams were very well placed, well timed, and made for quite the show. I appreciate your bringing it up, that role is a rather difficult one to fulfill.

[@marcelinio9988]

Yeah I mean the amount of damage caused was luck but the fact that it hit at all was not.

[@pepelkors]

​@@marcelinio9988 i think the whole point of nukes is exactly a moment like that, where you gamble on catastrophic success every launch

[@12-343]

@@marcelinio9988 Even with a less catastrophic hit, that still might've taken out a cannon. It was nearly a direct hit onto the top section, and CAT could just repeat the shot a second time.

[@AronFigaro]

Yeah those fire beams were better timed than I get out in 1v1s, that was amazing.

[@spectralace314]

Incursus: Nukes can be shot down Cat-tershot: No

[@Extramrdo]

9:32, that's not through an open door, that's through the 5 layers of wood underneath the door. Wow!

[@Takeshi_Yamato_103]

Yeah, I noticed that, too - absolute luck and/or precision to just thread the needle through the wood like that.

[@JonesCrimson]

I was so mad when I noticed that, it could have finally been an Armadillo win for a change, but they just didn't armor that one spot.

[@notarealfirstnamenotareall746]

And because they were armourdillo they didn't need the tiny doors and could have used full sized doors which would have defended against the hit.

[@pepelkors]

​@@notarealfirstnamenotareall746 or metal instead of wood

[@The_Angry_Kat]

Also the wood that had just been softened up by the howitzer.

[@itsgus3579]

I dont think ive ever seen a Eco Tank defence ever work

[@StepIndonesia]

It finally did in the second game

[@olegoleg258]

I think the problem with pure defence builds is that you just can't punch your enemy, at all, which means he'll just punch you even harder and you're dead. Doesn't matter how survivable you are if you cannot realistically deal damage In the second game, however, they went with architect. Rather than mitigating damage and thus defending better, when they get hurt they can use more weapons and economy. And wood, which more or less is the base line of defence (while Armor is usually used to protect the core and internals) so they actually have cheaper defence too. So once the enemy attacked them, said attack enabled cattershot to retaliate due to the quickly built howitzers, of which they actually had two - turning the high damage weapon into a game ending one Maybe I'm just spouting horse shit but I think, while armourdillo is more popular, architect is actually better as the eco defence guy (Also to note, cattershot just had bad luck in the first game having their base ripped apart because the door snipe turned into a wood-equipment penetrating one. In a similar vein the other team had bad luck in the last match and might've won if they didn't have their base torn apart)

[@snowdrop9810]

​​@@olegoleg258 It wasnt a doorsnipe, it was a hit on the tiny wood braces which got samaged by a howie iirc 1-2 metal there and fluff lives also All eco tanks I've seen build no anti howie defense and thus die to howie aoe deleting their woodspam

[@bengrogan9710]

​@Oleg Oleg the issue with defence builds is you have given the enemy the initiative. It's not that they can punch you harder - its that their punches are pre-planned, where as you are forced into APM reactive mode with limited ability to plan. Any and all early aggression is their to distract because it gives you time to think if you are offensive

[@olegoleg258]

@@snowdrop9810 I know, it was an attempted door snipe but turned into an wood-equipment penetrating one, as I've said

[@the_mad_fool]

I'm actually kinda sold on the slower nukes, but only specifically when you're up against a Pinchfist. Since they need to sell off so much of their base, they wind up quite unstable, so it doesn't matter as much that cannons have more consistent damage when every single nuke has a much higher chance of taking out the whole base.

[@BarefootCM]

I also think the "Nukes must field before cannon o'clock" isn't quite against Howie+cannon rather than 2x cannon. Howie is also not as consistent and the big splash/low pen means it's easier to defend a first strike without being crippled

[@vykro_eng]

That's actually not correct. Pinchfist does not cause any instability - he does not require selling more of the base than any other commander. At least outside of some breakneck, mad-greedy strategies (like selling 100% of your armour early and praying for the opponent not to have a buzzsaw). You can see it here in the video. In that last round, I sold off a couple nodes, but those particular nodes are not load bearing. Dranistian only sold off the top-most 2nd layer of armour. And of course, no amount of supports is going to save you from a howitzer and a cannon falling down and exploding at your main stability structure. Or a double nuke to the main hanging base support. If anything, Pinchfist should actually be more of a soft counter to this strategy, by the virtue of rolling out heavy weapons faster, and putting the nuke player on a tighter clock... heavy weapons which we did indeed manage to get. A couple of other things failed here though, which I'll touch upon in another comment.

[@the_mad_fool]

​@@vykro_eng The legend himself! Thanks so much for the insight, I went and read your other comment and I understand better now. I think this, if anything, sells me on this strat even more, particularly when the team manages to really coordinate the firebeam to protect the nuke from AA. That sucks about the lag, though....

[@plackt]

I understand your comment on slow nukes… in a 1v1. Anything beyond that means you have a teammate to suppress / block any AA, though, as we saw.

[@traviscecil3903]

Is it just me, or was this one of the more entertaining set of matches to watch? I honestly didn't know who I was rooting for more. Good games out of everybody.

[@vykro_eng]

That last game kills my spirit a bit :/ - We've got screwed over by lag with the worst possible timing. You can see that Dranistian had shelves for sandbags in front of his weapons, which he would block a nuke with. A lagspike prevented him from actually placing those sandbags. IIRC we both had some internet problems earlier that day. - Watching this, I feel like part of it too was a horrible target choice on my part. For a long time I was able to one-shot the top base by aiming for the mines. Or delete the mines of the bottom base. Or kill the smoke bomb. - We've slightly underestimated CAT because of their slow, eco-insistent builds and got a bit careless in the process. On the other hand, their nuke + firebeam coordination was top notch.

[@Nathan24634]

I was watching this and I wanted them to win but then finding out they secured their Victory through a lagspike just doesn't sit right with me even though it was completely out of anyone's control

[@CFHoneyBadger]

That was a great tourney. I was definitely surprised by who won! Lots of craziness and surprises throughout.

[@mataogearsky5353]

I do miss the days when Incursus himself would play forts, and especially the edited down videos that weren't just VODs.

[@WarhawkTalon]

The first kills in the 2nd and 3rd matches were basically "Do you ever get tired of being wrong?" Great content, love it!

[@Kaiimei]

The fact that in the first round Cat-tershot kept firing the Howitzer without even trying to take out the AA that shot it down three times in a row was just so frustrating. First time, sure, they got lucky maybe, but the AA needs to be handled, twice, maybe you shouldn't try again before the AA is gone, and when your howitzer shell gets shot down three times in a row...just...grah.

[@justnobody5527]

The round also ended on a lucky cannon shot which is a little frustrating as well granted thats why cannons are good is they are the only guns capablenof such lucky shots.

[@lordhawkeye]

Saying that was just a "lucky cannon shot" is such a disrespect to the situation. The shots were pummeling top base often. Outside of one bad shot each volley forced Cat into react mode. They had a brief moment where they took the fight back to Green only to once again get shelled into reacting and repairing. You can only stay on the defense so long before you crumble.

[@DoubsGaming]

Ok that is a nasty combo, Lazer with the nukes so AA is essentially useless. That and they baited them building AA from the beginning so they had no resources. That is some serious 4D chess.

[@Maxwell_Twist]

Yeah, I know, and he doesn't mention it at all.

[@rockysmith6105]

​@@Maxwell_Twist He does, he mentions laser support a few times actually. It's a well documented formula for 2v2s. It comes up a lot in the proper forts tournaments and is quite the good as you say. Now- the choice to delay fire and try to deal with the AA only once everything else was ready was... "a decision"- admittedly a good MG wall costs as much as a cannon and a well placed firebeam nullifies that investment nigh completely- a well placed sniper will make it hard to keep the combo going, a firebeam is a prime target to be door sniped. Furthermore MG rounds aren't stopped 100% by the firebeam- you see it all the time, ignited rounds that have a very short lifetime managing to down nukes despite the firebeam. The forts team has done a phenomenal job maintaining balance in a very complex physics based RTS, which is why you should always stop and ponder considering one strategy or build order an end all be all, because none are truly.

[@Maxwell_Twist]

@@rockysmith6105 I mean, while that is true, I was mostly talking about the bait aspect. He almost feels like he does the opposite of that. Also, I rarely see Seep lose to anything on that map and I don't think I've ever seen Armourdillo win, though I probably haven't seen as many matches as you.

[@freel2123]

This strategy has been used for years, why is everyone acting like it's a new thing wtf

[@ARTEMISXIX]

CAT vs GRL... Why can't catgirls coexist?

[@Jack70M]

because they should never exist

[@hatforacat3977]

They just aggressively meow at each other Or use nuclear weaponry

[@delta8989]

@@hatforacat3977 yeah the nuclear weaponry is starting to be a problem in my neighborhood

[@svartvarg9778]

​@@Jack70M So you're more a doggirl person?

[@thefacethatstares]

@@Jack70M kid named rapidly upcoming explosion in humanity's capabilities to create viable artificial life forms:

[@Ronaldopopkings]

Really hope Cat-tershots icon is a cat sniping. Not some heartless person sniping a kitten that would be awfull ^^

[@beaub152]

That first kill was the perfect shot, in between the two struts, didn't know you could ignore armor like that lol

[@KaidenGriggs]

It's amazing how at 9:40 Greenleaf manages to land to cannon shot right below the doors and on the wood. Wow.

[@arcuserarc1201]

The desperation of Incursus at 30:15 hahaha

[@PhoenixianThe]

*Incursus watches RTS build order* "I get it I just... I have moral issues with this?" Is now going to be a favorite line.

[@antius8590]

LOVE the tournament vids, they're so entertaining

[@andreasostlund4081]

Absolutely glorious play from Cat-tershot in the second game.

[@taylorolson6228]

really impressed with catershot's coordination on the lazer cover for the nukes in game three

[@funforall9741]

This has proven that a cat with a rocket is too unpredictable

[@lawnkythedonky8691]

Can't wait to get a PC to play this game

[@M4pet]

These videos are extremely entertaining, appreciate the insights and thoughtful commentary, keep it up!

[@itspizzatime8622]

I love these pro matches (or just any forts game you cast) they are so fun to watch

[@jamesross2328]

What a shot below the door. Then the better eco for mines with the cannons.

[@tomsterbg8130]

Teamwork on a whole new level

[@wangchi623]

Almost maddening watching cattershot repairing time and time again, while their ability is fully charged, and then activating it after the repairs are completed, and they're rebuilding the wood on the base.

[@BensSaLtY]

9:41 WOW! it snuck through the unarmored part underneath! What a crazy shot!

[@olegoleg258]

the funny thing about the nuke is that it wasn't a "lucky nuke" getting through the base and hitting it deep inside, what happpened is that top guy (dranistian) put too much weight onto the top supported by too little (a howitzer _and_ a canon, plus all the doors), so when a third of that holding up weight gets destroyed (right under the hotspot of the massive amount of doors) it just collapses. maybe i am no pro but it seems like that was a blunder, or simply a neccesary risk to get out the stuff as quickly as possible it's not even the wood right under the structure that collapses, it was double braced and held, but the structure under it, given the swerving due to the explosion and not being cross braced it collapsed. maybe it would have collapsed anyways if it was double braced, but it is far less likely

[@brunoks6951]

That nuke was dirt. Waving and dancing to the perfect point. They maybe had survived that if all his batteries wasn't below the core.

[@timbaak]

I always eat to your videos so I had to starve for a month until this upload

[@DoubsGaming]

Seek help?

[@brockglock3035]

You must be eating good if you survived a whole month.

[@fireroastedfire]

You know he uploads his streams here, too, right? That's what I do to tide over.

[@Bladster94]

Thing with nukes is while they overall dish out less DPS on the long run, the burst damage when it lands is dramatic. It's not made to beat someone's economy or health, it's made to collapse the base in one well-aimed dice roll, or make it brittle enough for someone else to break through

[@RegularBiscuit]

9:40 pixel perfect slice through the only bit of wood

[@FireBeam]

Have you seen Vykro's stability tech video, Incurses? And do you plan on practicing any of it in your next open Forts lobby? 😋

[@vykro_eng]

I'm seriously glad people like those tutorials. I got more of them in the works btw.

[@FireBeam]

@@vykro_eng Yo! Best video I've seen yet on the subject. I modified it a bit and I'm able to get very strong, tall buildings, but it's hard to describe here. I'll put something in the discord later. 😋😋😋

[@RegularBiscuit]

24:18 beautiful howitzer block

[@dungeonmaster1]

it's easy to do like that

[@RegularBiscuit]

@@dungeonmaster1 maybe so, but it was especially nice

[@michaelscotts3949]

Fluffs teammate in the first match really threw. He opened up the enemy at the bottom twice and he refused to fire on him and rid him of his weapons. Instead pointlessly shooting at the upper player.

[@supermooducksupermooduck7164]

thats some real pro forts here

[@McLovin8383]

Keep the forts content coming 😊

[@taylorolson6228]

ayo forts content in 2023? i am so fckn here for this

[@justinpeterson7246]

That last match was brutal.

[@rsparks1104]

Incursus carefully explaining the eco and consistency differences between missiles and cannons, and why in the long-term, cattershot's build is subpar Cattershot: Hehe nuke go brrr

[@randomork1688]

I need to watch incursus more.. haven't watched you're content in a very long time

[@travelinman70]

quite satisfying to watch this kind of destruction. LOL

[@randombronypony]

Cattershot, what a legendary performance, and I love their logo too

[@Ikxi]

CAT vs GRL the catgirl match, nice

[@theo1103]

This.....! is sooo good!

[@Allahuma.sali.ala.muhammad.]

Ggs.

[@prixtront7240]

commentary seemed a little off in this video but it was still very enjoyable. I would very much like to know why howitzer/cannon or plasmabeam/firebeam is more popular than quad cannon. Is pinchfist the only commander that can bring out quad cannon at a reasonable time or does it also work with warthog or eagleeye?

[@bengrogan9710]

Economy balance - firing the cannon costs metal, multi Canon spam is often not sustainable. Warthog doesn't need to win on sustained dps, it is investing in the increased alpha strike damage

[@prixtront7240]

@@bengrogan9710 I like your explanation for the use case of warthog, but aside from that I don't find your argument convincing. To be fair, I haven't seen any forts matches other than the ones Incursus casts/shows but most of them reach the point where economy is built up to sustain a lot of weaponry and also most of them go beyond the exchange of alpha strikes. cannon rounds ignore AA, cannons can't be sniped (mostly), cannons deal good eco damage, cannons have penetrative power... I would assume that I haven't seen enough games yet to form an educated opinion but at this time I just can't figure out why Howitzer/cannon + plasmabeam/firebeam is stronger (and therefore more popular than) quad cannons.

[@rockysmith6105]

Howitzers simply deal incredible damage, and the shells have a really good immunity to AA, if you maintain map control there simply isn't a good reason for either player to go double cannon when the howitzer is effectively an impervious nuke. Now, this isn't to say your claim has no credit, it does. Quad cannons are incredibly damaging- Howitzers are just better. So much better infact I'm beside myself that neither team tried the eagle eye Bank shot to double fire howitzers even once- that strat is a fun watch, it almost always catches the opponent off guard.

[@nogisonoko5409]

​@@prixtront7240 It was simply because howie/cannon combo have roughly the same destructive power than 3-4 cannons. It is also because howie/cannon are cheaper than 3-4 cannons thus more economical. The catch to these strat is they required map control or AA denial to work. firebeam/laser combo on the other hand give player a budget firepower roughly the same of 2 laser beam with reduced cost thus more economical. That is why these strats are popular. Cheap and powerful, can deploy more firepower earlier.

[@vykro_eng]

​@@nogisonoko5409 Further to this: - For max theoretical fire rate, 3 cannons require significantly more energy production (and more turbines) than a cannon + a howitzer, costing more metal for the turbines themselves, and requiring more space to accomodate them. - Howitzer shot force can be throttled up and down like a mortar. This means it's easier to keep both bases within firing range, even with smallest possible doors (just throttle the power down to arc the shell into the lower base). On the other hand, with cannons, you need to either carefully angle them so that they point at a specific base, or build full-sized doors in order to reach both, which is expensive and makes the weapons highly vulnerable to door snipes. - Further because of the variable shot power, it is possible to build a howitzer such that it is *100% immune to doorsnipes,* or at least very difficult to do so.

[@Fenix0656]

Incursus, thought on maybe advertising a new-bro tournament? Would be great not only to see the difference in gameplay, but also hear the constructive criticism on how they could improve their gameplay (which obviously they could watch the video after the tournament!) Could make for some fun times!

[@aaronarndt261]

Hi from Vancouver Canada 😊 I'm Happy n sad today I get to watch things explode but no beach to tan and watch things explode 😂

[@BensSaLtY]

Totally read title as Forts Pro League CATGIRL

[@MrMBFreak]

Well, I don't know if you are editing your videos on your own or if you got someone to edit it for you... but I would recommend you to double check the description for the commanders on screen for any typing mistakes because theres quite a few i realised. Just so you know. I dont quite mind... It's still great content and overall those shots collapsing the bases were really impressive. Keep up the good work.

[@xXTheBl4ckC4tXx]

9:37 Just imagine leaving just a tiny wood hole and getting sniped through it.......

[@tramachi7027]

Well...3rd round proved that with a teammate a nuke flying through unhindered because it gets eaten by teammates laser did prove you wrong in that one :D It wasnt just luck that they killed Dranistian. But coordernated mass attack

[@uk6396]

Howizer right here….👉👈 yes, thank you

[@lolsternuf3367]

very cool

[@SirTopHat36]

sooooo I havnt seen your vids for years, do you plan on playing the game yourself rather spectating the game?

[@DoubsGaming]

aw and I was hoping to see an amordillo actually win for once. Then again I haven't watched the whole video.

[@the_mad_fool]

I swear, I've not seen a single armordillo victory in the FPL. I really don't know why anyone still picks him.

[@DoubsGaming]

@@the_mad_fool givin' the buffs he talked about maybe. But the reputation does speak for itself. Forts inherently is an attack focused game so I still can't see it ever working. (-Someone who doesn't play lol)

[@sniperfi4532]

@@DoubsGamingyeah defence oriented commanders only work if you’re trading blow for blow. Once you lose weapons and go full turtle you end up wasting both your economy and apm on repairing/rebuilding instead of building and firing weapons. It sucks but every time I see a team use armadillo in the pro league I basically write them off straight away.

[@the_mad_fool]

@@DoubsGaming I don't play either lmao. But I'm talking about _since_ the buffs. I've watched all these recent vods and I don't think I've seen armordillo win even a single time.

[@DoubsGaming]

@@the_mad_fool just sad.

[@zacattack32441]

Do players usually fight until the end even when the winner is obvious? I understand wanting to play despite the odds, but when you are in the same situation as Alesio in the first game why don't players concede?

[@Pandor25]

Didn't check fort game in a while. Does not turbin lose production when they are behind closed wall/building anymore?

[@bengrogan9710]

Energy shields or sandbags on a stilt don't block wind - solid blocks and doors do

[@electricperro672]

Could you check out the Alex Extra Upgrades mod? Great matches btw

[@RadimentriX]

will we ever get proper Incursus videos back? or only that narrator stuff? :

[@Schrodingers_kid]

Cat-tershot deserved this, it was a lot of teamwork and patience

[@gambler301]

I would really like to see Incursus play again.

[@helmetmcbaron]

What is the purpose of the holes in there bases?

[@NinjaLayor]

Consequence of them selling off pieces of the base for more economy - not ideal, but if it doesn't compromise the base's structure too much while letting them get heavy weapons out earlier, it's a worthy trade in (until you face a nuke, at least)

[@MarkoDash]

the CATGRL match

[@MadMax-yq9ix]

How much did you raise for the kids dude?

[@Half_a_bosco]

that game three man

[@HirokazuTakeda]

Great match

[@yusufmetan9605]

LETS GOO

[@Resetium]

Nukes are probably the definition of unexpectable, huh?

[@deusmiles9340]

Wasn't this uploaded already?

[@influx8072]

I thought that the names of the teams were some sort of joke, because it ends up being CAT vs GRL which just looks like "cat girl."

[@giaxo1739]

Me reading CAT and GRL next to each other wrong just proves I've been infected by weebs. I promised myself I wouldn't let this happen.

[@CuSolais]

i feel like green leaf lacks coordination as a team. which cat-tershot has in buckets.

[@aaronarndt261]

Vacations over

[@deucedeuce1572]

That's gotta suck to know you already lost, but then to have to fight and defend yourself for 20 minutes of slow-kill. This is one of the few games I've ever seen when the losing player(s) don't just give up the moment their chances reach zero. I know people get lucky and comp-backs are a thing... but half the time it's one guy with no weapons rebuilding and rebuilding for 20 minutes until the other team finally gets a kill-shot. It's especially bad with the indirect weapons that have to get an unlikely lucky shot to hit a core or something nearby that will collapse the base and/or explode the core with secondary explosions.

[@AronFigaro]

As the resident Seep player: NO, don't do this.

[@DreamingConcepts]

Has tons of benefits to armor Makes 90% of the base defense with wood

[@jellytiky7691]

fiinaly more video

[@zoraiaero]

CAT GRL, Cat girl 😳

[@wileyglass3324]

why arnt you posting anymore

[@dustycarrier4413]

I like Catershots obvious unconventional methods.

[@PugVO]

why is he saying them or they when there s just one left ?

[@sneediumminer]

its wierd as hell seeing pros constantly float materials ngl like second game top left guy spending hundreds of metal on turbines then sitting capped on E for the entire match

[@CraftingCat_IX]

CAT 👍

[@emmah1408]

Engagement

[@kongle8737]

weed vs a cat XD

[@davidstears7037]

"Cannons are better" Missiles have RNG b***h! XD

[@ninjaduck8804]

i just noticed in the title it almost says cat girl

[@ibuildblasters8118]

cats vs girls? but they're made for each other

[@ThylineTheGay]

CAT VS GIRL

[@ninjaduck8804]

catgirl

[@ThylineTheGay]

@@ninjaduck8804 so true

[@ninjaduck8804]

@@ThylineTheGay I couldn't believe it at first

[@samueldelebecque8048]

I don’t see any pro

[@normanfacy]

Finally I've found a short vid 😒 . Was going to unsubscribe . your the First person who showed me forts 🤟 older vids was great 23 mins around that they was 👌🤟👍 edit ! This awesome 4 games 🤟 I feel heaps spoilt 👌👌👌

[@ghosttwo2]

I like watching incursus beat scrubs. This tournament stuff is annoying, particularly when it's the only thing he publishes anymore.

[@Ronaldopopkings]

Eatch to their own i guess. Really like watching these matches while eating ^^

[@Gollum_YT]

Do you know the upcomming creator @Kupernikus ?