A Study of Romans 7: Is it About the Christian Life?

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In this video, I discuss the often debated text Romans 7. I discuss various views of the text, and give a defense for the perspective that this is Paul's present Christian experience.

[@pjwg]

Thanks Pastor Cooper! The Christian-life interpretation of Romans 7 is so important, I think, because it reminds us and keeps us from a works-based religion where we judge our Christian life on how “little” we sin, instead of trusting entirely on the justification in Christ by grace through faith. Romans 7 was an eye-opener and a great comfort for me, and was one of the texts that led me to believe that Lutheranism has the right perspective.

[@heavenbound7-7-7-7]

Same here this was an excellent teaching so thank you Mr Cooper.

[@lc-mschristian5717]

Very comforting text. Thank you. God's peace be with you.

[@mrs.teilborg649]

One thing I really appreciate about the LCMS, is that they take the literal view when possible. Thank you for this, I really really enjoyed it!!!!

[@MarkGoddard1973]

Great study. BTW my Grandpa wrote his ThM thesis on this issue at Dallas Seminary in 1950 -- he agreed with your view.

[@bcrown_9736]

I find it interesting that there are significant theological debates around portions of scripture like this one where it appears (at least at a cursory glace) to be cut and dry. Paul gives us no reason to question whether or not he is speaking about his present self here. I'm not assuming that I'm more intelligent than the people who have devoted a significant amount of time to working through these arguments. I just typically subscribe to the plain meaning of a text unless there is a reason not to.

[@KO_WI88]

Love the textual stuff! Keep it coming!

[@thewiseandthefoolish]

About time you defended the title of your publishing company exegetically :P

[@lorenzomurrone2430]

You have no idea how eagerly I've waited for this explanation! Thank you!

[@1920s]

Hey, brother Lorenzo. 😀

[@lorenzomurrone2430]

@@1920s hello brother! :) I know who you are

[@izamota4761]

I was waiting for that, thanks

[@pat1442]

I commented on the other video and then found this one for the more full explanation of your thought on Romans 7. I still agree with the comment from the other video. I'd take the current experience of Paul, and current Christian experience view exactly as you do. I would just remove the eschatological component which is unwarranted by the text. Throughout Romans as Paul speaks of being resurrected in Christ as a current life with Christ on earth in our mortal bodies both before and after Romans 7, and urges people to live in Christ in the present on earth, and stresses the possibility of doing so, as does all other scripture on the topic. To say he goes from talking out living in resurrected Christ currently, then takes a break to speak about it eschatologically in Romans 7 and say its impossible to live resurrected in Christ in the present, then go right back to talking about it in the present, and urging people to do so on earth is absurd. Also consider this really simple philosophical argument for Christian perfection. P1 - God desires his people to be perfect. P2 - God has the ability to give sufficient grace for people to be perfect. P3 - People being perfect is not contradictory to any other part of God's will. C1 - God desires to, and is able to make people perfect and it is not contradictory to another part of his will. P5 - If God desires X, God has the ability to achieve X, and X is not contradictory to any other part of God's will, then X will happen. C2 - Therefore, God will grant grace to perfect people.

[@arthurodell3281]

Michael Middendorf also wrote the two volume commentary on Romans published by Concordia Publishing House, which incorporates the work you mentioned.

[@DrJordanBCooper]

Yes, I knew that he had done that commentary, but I haven't yet read it. I'm sure it is a great volume.

[@SOTE_513]

I think it's as "simple" as this: a. Paul desires to do good b. Sin/evil dwells in Paul (The law of sin and death, present in all humans), preventing him from doing good. c. The Mosaic Law cannot enable Paul to do good. d. The sin/evil that dwells in Paul (the law of sin and death, common to all humans) is actually encouraged by the Mosaic Law e. Paul, therefore, needs someone to give him victory over the law of sin and death, because the Mosaic Law is unable to do that. e.. Jesus gives Paul the victory over the law of sin and death through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit by faith. d.. The Law of the Spirit of life in Christ (unlike the Mosaic Law) has freed Paul from the law of sin and death c. The Law of the Spirit of life in Christ (unlike the Mosaic Law) enables Paul to do good b.. Though sin/evil dwells in Paul (the law of sin and death, common to all humans), he is free from its subduing power and condemnation - it no longer has to prevent him from doing good - because of the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ a. Because of the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ, Paul is able to do good. In summary, in my opinion the law of sin and death is at work in our flesh; the Mosaic Law had no remedy for that, and in fact, the law of sin and death is encouraged by the Mosaic Law. But now, we who trust in Jesus have received his Spirit, and the law of the Spirit of life in Christ has freed us from the Law of sin and death. The law of sin and death is still present in our flesh (see Galatians 5 and elsewhere), but we have victory over it 24/7 through the Spirit, which is something that the Mosaic Law did not and could not provide. We're not condemned by the law of sin and death anymore, and it has no inherent power over us anymore. So then, what I believe Paul is saying is: Yeah, the law of sin and death is at work in our flesh, but you don't have to give in to it anymore because through Christ you have died to that law, and through his Spirit you have 24/7 victory over that law - so walk in the Spirit and fulfill the desires of God - don't walk in the flesh anymore to fulfill the desires of sin. The Spirit is your sword to kill the deeds of the flesh, walk in the Spirit. That doesn't mean a believer won't sometimes give in to the law of sin and death that is in his flesh (obviously he does). The flesh wars against the Spirit, so that you can't do what you would like to do (Galatians 5). It just means that a Christian doesn't have to give in anymore. They don't have to obey the law of sin and death; they're free from it because of Jesus, and through his Spirit they have a weapon against it (that the Mosaic Law couldn't provide) that guarantees victory. So, walk in the Spirit, and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. *When I say "flesh" I'm not talking about our skin and bones and muscles and tissue; I understand "flesh" as "our inclination to desire things that are not of God's will".

[@markdiblasi3061]

But now it is no longer I who do it but sin that lives in me. There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. No condemnation because it is no longer I who do it but sin…

[@ibevhunyadi]

Super helpful, thank you

[@johnnyb3245]

The proper way to look at this is that Paul was explaining what life was when anyone is under the law. But we are under grace. Did you read verse 25? You also have to take this in context with Romans 6 in Romans 8 so quit using it to justify failure.

[@raykidder906]

Dr. Cooper has brought up good points to ponder when reading the Epistle to the Romans. It might be interesting if Dr. Cooper has a video on the topic of “inherited original sin”. This is something that Pelagius and St. Augustine had differences of opinion over. I agree with St. Augustine that there is a slavery of sin for which only Christ saves us. On the other hand, I think the “original sin event (and the legacy of this)” can be likened to the “original drunk driving event (and the legacy of this)”. I therefore agree with Pelagius that there is no such thing as an evil inborn human nature CAUSED by Adam’s original sin. Because Eve’s sin was of an emotional nature involving wanting (associated with covetousness against the commandment), and this woman was still flesh of Adam’s flesh, the emotions going through the original sin ARE mentioned in Genesis 3, and these were part of Adam’s character. This was his explanation of how the giving of the law (of Moses) to St. Paul caused him to sin in the likeness of Adam’s transgression (Romans 5:14). Furthermore, I see the knowledge of good and evil represented the law, and the commandment given to St. Paul that was ordained to life (Romans 7:10) was represented by the commandment given to Adam that originally was ordained so that he would remain in the garden, eat of the tree of life, and escape mortality. St. Paul was explaining how the serpent was the law of sin in Adam’s members. As I see it, Romans 7 is therefore largely a playing back of Adam’s experience in the Garden of Eden. The prototype man Adam was also the prototype Christian. I think the “inward man” mentioned in Romans 7:22 is for all persons because all are made in the image of God, and all are born in the likeness of Adam. It would have been more comprehensive if Dr. Cooper also discussed the gentiles mentioned in Romans 2, who do by nature the things of the law. It seems to me that these gentiles are regenerate Christians, but I wonder if Dr, Cooper shares this view. If so, doesn't this shed light on the proper interpretations of Romans 7?

[@leeorrose9218]

It’s almost as if Paul’s battle is mirroring the transition of creation between death and righteousness: it’s that in between that mirrors Paul’s battle

[@DrJordanBCooper]

Precisely

[@jeffgjere6398]

I have an understanding of Romans 7 that I think helps to unify some of the various perspectives. The approach is to start by zooming way out on the book of Romans, taking notice of where the major steps in the Christian life occur in the book. Here's what I mean: chapter 3 talks about justification by faith - that's the beginning of our Christian life. Then in chapter 6 Paul discusses baptism (I hold that to be *water* baptism, but this is debated). Next, for the moment let's skip past 7 and notice how chapter 8 talks about life in the Spirit, and how by means of the Spirit we "put to death the deeds of the body" (8:13). So what's up with chapter 7? Based on the above, I think it describes a person who believes and has been baptized, but who currently is not experiencing the fullness of the Spirit's presence. The Spirit is there of course, but perhaps isn't as active as He is at other times. This leaves the person feeling the contrast between the desire to do good and the strong awareness of the weakness and wretchedness of the mortal body. Then what about Paul? Wasn't he really full of the Spirit? Well, yes -- but perhaps not all the time. I think Paul knew the feeling of being "less full" of the Spirit, and THIS is what he was describing in chapter 7. So he knew the feeling and was able to describe it -- but he didn't necessarily feel that way at every moment. I think that much of the time Paul was very full of the Spirit, walking in freedom and victory over sin. But the key is being full of the Spirit. Our flesh is certainly not capable of giving us victory. This helps explain how Romans 7 is sometimes interpreted as being about unbelievers. An unbeliever, who strives to act morally (by some definition), could certainly notice the weakness of the flesh and feel a great struggle. Now, it makes sense that this would resemble - to some degree - the experience of a believer who currently is not being assisted by the Spirit as much as at other times. ------ Being full of the Spirit is the key.

[@toomanymarys7355]

You should be very careful about any theology that has room for "being full" and not "being full" of the Spirit. Every Christian has the Spirit, full stop. Groups who want to revive some of the earliest heresies, such as Pelagianism and Gnosticism, have invented this distinction and also talk about "moving in the Spirit" and other extremely unbiblical things. There is no idea that humans "in right relationship with God" or the spirit will do everything that Jesus did. That is a teaching that comes from Word of Faith, which is a neo-gnostic group that denies the divinity of Jesus Christ and wants to pretend that there is no real distinction between you and Christ.

[@collin501]

I agree with you. The epistles certainly talk about being filled with the spirit in the present tense so that must be an actual thing. Romans 8 speaks of the spirit freeing him. That must be the case too for chapter 6 to be true that we are dead to sin and slaves of righteousness. Or galatians, "walk by the Spirit and you will by no means fulfill the lusts of the flesh."

[@collin501]

I see it as present tense but needs to be understood in the context of chapters 6 through 8. There are times when we are spiritually alive and sin lies dead in the flesh. Then there are times when sin revives and we die spiritually. Romans 7 cannot be a 24 7 reality. It comes up often, no doubt. But his language in chapter 6 and 8 highlight life in the spirit where in a practical lived out experience, the Christian is dead to sin. Treating Romans 7 as perpetual all day long I think is in direct conflict with that. The problem Paul is highlighting is the law. It's not enough to know right from wrong and try to do what's right while in the flesh. We end up deceived by sin. If the voice starts talking or the impulse starts trying to move you, how do we deal with it? Knowing what's right Isn't enough because of our weakness. To be in step with the Spirit, to focus on the Spirit, to reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive to God, to present our body parts as instruments of righteousness, to serve the Lord with joy in what the Spirit would have us do(rather than focusing on what not to do which is the law). This is the righteousness of faith apart from the law. We no longer go to the law to walk out righteousness, which says, do this and don't do that. That is choice, and the burden lies on our shoulders. That is the righteousness of the law. But to be led by the Spirit isn't to have the burden of choice on our shoulders, it is to be led(Romans 8:4-14). It is obeying from the heart, which is not to be divided between two choices(chapter 6:17-18). What Paul talks about in Romans is not only imputed righteousness, but the ability to live it out is also given as a gift. It can't be our experience perpetually, but struggle with sin also can't be our experience perpetually. Either option doesn't agree with other statements on Romans and the epistles.

[@tinker-ing-around2317]

Because scripture is so very important, I wish the writers, by the guidance of the Holy Spirit, would have kept things super simple and clear for the average reader. Controversial passages have led to a lot of division in the church as well as angst/grief in sincere Christians.

[@benmizrahi2889]

I think it was very clear to the original recipient of the texts. No text would be completely clear when viewed from a vast distance in time, culture and language.

[@toomanymarys7355]

It has only had one meaning, ever, until recent times, when it contradicts heresies that some people want to promote.

[@1920s]

What are the essays and articles you recommend?

[@Mike65809]

If Paul is writing Romans 7 as a Christian and his struggle against sin, then had the "law of the spirit of life in Christ set him free from the law of sin and death"? Apparently not.

[@KnightFel]

There is no struggle with sin when you’re a slave to it, so yes he’s set free.

[@Mike65809]

@@KnightFel Sort of misses his whole point. He was set free in Christ, not before.

[@ronevartt7537]

Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? Rom 7:2 For the woman (The Believer) which hath an husband (Sin) is bound by the law to her husband so long as he (Sin) liveth; but if the husband (Sin) be dead, she (The Believer) is loosed from the law of her husband (Sin). Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband (Sin) liveth, she (The Believer) be married to another man (Jesus), she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband (Sin) be dead, she (The Believer) is free from that law (Law of sin and death); so that she (The Believer) is no adulteress, though she be married to another man (Jesus). Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law (The Law of Sin) by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another (Jesus), even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God (Obedience to the Law). Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death (Law of Sin and death). Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law (Law of Sin and Death), that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit (Law of God through the teachings of Jesus), and not in the oldness of the letter (Without understanding). Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead (Without knowing the law you can’t know sin). Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived (Sin came alive unto us after we became aware of the law), and I died (This is the law of sin and death). Rom 7:10 And the commandment (The Law), which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death (Again the law of sin and death, and the reason we all need a Savior). Rom 7:11 For sin (Deception of sin, and not the law), taking occasion by the commandment (The Law), deceived me, and by it slew me (Unable to perfectly keep the law, and again a reason why we need a Savior). Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good (The Law) made death (The Law) unto me? God forbid. But sin (Sin should be made death unto us), that it might appear sin, working death in me (Alive unto the law of God) by that which is good (The Law); that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual (Can only be accomplished in us by His Spirit): but I am carnal, sold under sin. Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I (Again, the whole reason why we need a Savior). Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not (Which is to obey the law of God), I consent unto the law that it is good. Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not (Can only be accomplished by His Spirit). Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. Rom 7:21 I find then a law (Law of sin and death), that, when I would do good (Obey God’s law), evil is present with me (Still in the flesh, and needing a Savior). Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God (His Spirit in me) after the inward man: Rom 7:23 But I see another law (God’s law) in my members, warring against the law (Law of sin and death) of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members (Our flesh). Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.

[@taylorbarrett384]

I don't think it's preconversion BUT!!!!!! you can't use his "as to righteousness under the law, blameless" to prove it. Paul was not there describing his conscience pre-damascus. He was saying that he is as Jewish and was as Jewishly pious as a human can be. Nothing more or less. His point had absolutely nothing to do, and no reference whatsoever, to his conscience while living under the law.