A Surprising Winner!! 8-core VS 12-core CPU 😮

[@gilesl]

I put a 10 core in mine and it’s been fantastic running pro tools for the last couple of years

[@chucko22758]

I got a refurbished 6 core Mac Pro from Apple in 2015, I think. But I had a CPU upgrade planned from the day it arrived. When the data centers started cycling out their E5 V2 Xeons, I grabbed an E5-2667V2 for US$225. I'm typing this now on that same Mac Pro. It's been a workhorse for photo processing and software builds.

[@whophd]

This Mac is the MOST eligible candidate for retro love. Intel 64-bit base and a never-repeated case. Easy to store and carry. And rare in its day, but not TOO rare like the G4 Cube because it actually did wear the performance crown for a bit. So when I bought mine in 2013, I knew it would end up on the shelf eventually. Sure enough a few KZbinrs have already done that. One day I’ll tell the history of how this Mac helped the M1. I totally loved living the retina 4K60 lifestyle with two monitors doing this from 2014 to 2021. Mine started with 8 cores but went to 12 cores, because - believe me - it sat on full CPU% pegged out for days. I used it to process and compress an 8K video in 2020, probably the last Herculean task I gave it. I remember giving 4K tasks to my SSD i7 iMac 2011, and HD tasks to my Dual 1GHz G4 tower. These poor workhorses always got overloaded by me.

[@MFEeee]

Nice. I’m on the fence between keeping the 12 core and downgrading to the 8 core. The most I used the 12 cores was for video conversion and using RAM disk to cut down on times significantly. I wonder if a higher clock speed would improve this process. I want a snappier Mac Pro overall and don’t have many options left for upgrades

[@mikv8]

All true. The thing is, disregarding what your computer is doing, server or a gaming rig, you will always feel the faster single-core clock speed where's to actually use multiple cores you need a highly optimized software. In other words, a single-core 5GHz CPU will always be faster than a 10-core 500MHz one.

[@casperes0912]

*with the same IPC

[@mikv8]

@@casperes0912 Sure. Apples to apples comparison only.

[@PrinceWesterburg]

Just got given an 8-core Mac Pro and I wanted to run Logic Pro X and FL Studio on it, these are very multi-threaded so the 12-core is still very tempting however the 10-core might be the best compromise.

[@paulgooderham]

Thank you for pointing out the cache difference.

[@fmarinosfromafar9512]

Haha, great video! I did the basic calculations on paper a few years ago (pre-Apple Silicon) as this computer just sticks in my mind - I remember when we took delivery of our first one in the studio I was working at at the time, pretty mind blowing. I did the 12 core CPU upgrade on one of them - though later concluded (similarly to you) that an 8 core was probably the sweet spot. Now that the prices are coming down (down down!) I'm back to considering getting a Trashcan just as a momento/curiosity. Really enjoyed the finer detail on the comparisons, by the way!

[@transitengineer]

I hear what you are saying. Right after the introduction of the M-1 Mac Studio the price on the "space gray" trash can size Mac Pro's started to "drop like a Rock". Had always, wanted to add one of these desktops to my collection. So, about four (4)-months later, I picked-up for around $1,200, a used 8-core/D-700/64GB/1TB SSD model and, paired it with my already owned Apple 27-inch Cinema LED (none thunderbolt) display and everything has been working great (smile..smile).

[@bryans8656]

I had a Trashcan until about two-to-three years ago, and upgraded it like crazy using your videos (thanks!). I did upgrade to the 12-core CPU for its multicore performance, mostly just to see if I could. That was a beautiful device but I decided to sell it when the M series chips were released and prices started to drop on the Pro 2013s.

[@TJ-kb9qt]

Had one with a D700, late 1TB and "original" 8-core. Was a beast. From my point of view significantly faster running windows than a later MacOS. Hint here the "original 8-core" was one of the rarest intel experiments. And a over clockable XEON

[@Pasi123]

Most Xeon E5-16xx had unlocked multiplier until Intel locked them on v4. Though the E5-1680v2 is the only overclockable 8c/16t CPU for X79/LGA2011 because it never got an i7 version and there wasn't any other 8 core E5-16xx v2 Xeons for the platform. X99/LGA2011v3 was almost the opposite, Xeon E5-16xx v4 only went up to 8c/16t and were locked while the consumer i7's went up to a 10c/20t i7-6950X. The older gen for the platform, E5-16xx v3, were overclockable but only had up to 8c/16t just like the equivalent i7-5960X

[@MFEeee]

I agree. Windows runs way better than MacOS on this machine. Even the dual D700 I have just runs better and runs cooler. Maybe should do grade to an older better running OS

[@photovincent]

No practical info in it for me, just geekery - love it! 😊 Best holiday wishes!

[@garanceadrosehn9691]

Nice rundown on how all these low-level details add up and make a difference. FWIW, I'm one of those people who is pretty interested in buying a trashcan Mac Pro, now that the prices for them have come down to *much* more reasonable levels. I would probably go for a later model though, not 2013.

[@transitengineer]

I picked-up a "space gray" trash can sized Mac Pro 8-core/D-700/64GB/1TB SSD model in 2022. At the time had to decide if, I wanted to add to my collection a "space gray" 27-inch iMac Pro or a trash can sized Mac Pro. Since, I already owned a 2010, Apple 27-inch Cinema LED (none thunderbolt) display decided to go with the older trash can size Mac Pro. However, now that the used price of the base level 27-inch iMac Pro are nearing $1,000, I might have to add one of these also, to my collection sometime next year (smile...smile).

[@idubzh243]

Happy to have picked the 10 cores starting @ 3.0 ghz. Works great !

[@transitengineer]

Thank you, for this excellent and informational video. Wow guess that, I was lucky when picking-up my used "space gray" trash can sized Mac Pro. My unit is the 8-core/D-700/64GB/1TB SSD model. Not being a power user, my goal at the time of purchase on Ebay was to, just pick-up a 6-core/D-700/32GB/1TB system from a local buyer but, someone from out of state was, also selling the other system at the same price. Would love to see, you do this same video comparison between a Mac Pro 6-core/64GB unit and a Mac Pro 8-core/64GB unit (smile...smile).

[@ConstantGeekery]

You made the right choice - the 6-core model is definitely a few steps behind. The 6-core CPU is the 1650 v2 with a base clock of 3.5 GHz and an available bins profile of 4/2/2/2/1/1. It also has a much reduced 2MB L3 cache per core.

[@mircomputers]

it's so hard to explain this to customers as a computer business, so many ppl got the 18 core x299 machines in the last few years for audio and gaming where a 6 core 8700k would have been better

[@anothervisionofthings]

Very interesting ! I just bought one with the 12 core 2.7ghz, it was only 45 € more than the 6 core with less ram. What do you think about the E5-2673V2 which is also a 8 core 3.3ghz with lower consumption of 110w instead of 130w. By the way the E5-2667V2 can be find now for 30/35€

[@MacSoundSolutions]

Thanks for making me feel better about my purchase. I just got an 8 core for 300 on eBay, and installed OCLP and Sonoma on a 2 terabyte SSD 64 gigs ram on the way. I’m guessing it’s the original 1680 series seeing it’s a 2014. How do you check the cpu model number?

[@ConstantGeekery]

Try running the following command in a Terminal window: sysctl -a | grep brand It will most likely be a 1680.

[@MacSoundSolutions]

Thanks

[@BillGong]

Thank you for this video.

[@claudio_sergiacomo]

I ordered a 10 core CPU which never came as standard option from apple but it does work with the logic board of the Mac pro 2013... Do you have any thoughts on that cpu?. I've seen other KZbinrs have installed that 10 core as a better option than. The 12 core although there is something not mentioned in your video and that's about temperature differences between those processors when it comes to pro apps

[@ConstantGeekery]

I assume you are talking about the 2690 v2. If so, the 2667 8-core has a cache advantage, and a clock speed advantage: 400 MHz faster on up to 4 cores and 300MHz faster on up to 8 cores. So I’d still take the 8-core over the 10-core unless I had a workflow that would regularly take advantage of those additional threads. Compared to the 12-core, the 2690 v2 is probably a slightly better choice for most people as it has a clock speed advantage. The 12-core will only win when it’s being maxed out. Temperature should be broadly similar on the 130W chips. My recommendation on a 2013 Mac Pro is to install something like TG Pro to run the fan earlier than the standard Apple fan curve.

[@claudio_sergiacomo]

@@ConstantGeekery thanks so much for your input and for your videos.

[@daveh6356]

If Apple was really committed to a 'green' future, they'd be creating upgrade cards for these old Macs. The twin AMD GPU cards could be replaced with Apple Silicon GPU cards, or maybe M-series Max to leave the Xeon running a bootstrap. The enclosures are fine.

[@chidorirasenganz]

Nah that would work. That’s like saying if sony really cares about the environment they should make upgrade kits for their VCRs to play CDs 😅

[@daveh6356]

@@chidorirasenganz not quite the same, as the Mac Pros (Tubes) were upgradable, but there's always a question around upgrades cannibalising potential new sales. The upgrade cards would have to be equally profitable.

[@chidorirasenganz]

@@daveh6356 That was true in the past but now not only is the architecture different, the way that the system works is different. For example, Apple’s GPUs rely on LPDDR instead of faster GDDR but the older CPUs would have trouble connecting to the Cards let alone making use of the full potential of the GPUs.

[@daveh6356]

@@chidorirasenganz the componentry beyond the interface is irrelevant as the whole card is being replaced. The real challenge would be software as, though the Metal API should take care of most HW interaction, I'm pretty sure there's no Apple Silicon GPUs currently driven by Intel CPUs. One way around could be to use M3 Maxs and relegate the Xeons to boot hosts.

[@BonusCrook]

I was expecting a really bad video and then I would comment something like "this is what happens when mac users try to benchmark CPUs" but no, great video.

[@bigdiggle5036]

I ended up recently upgrading mine to the 2.7ghz 12 core mostly because people are selling the 8 core for almost 40 dollars and you can get the 10 core for about 15-17 dollars or the 12 core for about 25. I think if you're just wanting to upgrade it all the way and not bench flex then obviously go with the cheaper version and make sure your Mac has all four dam slots occupied for quad-chan config and make sure your ram is running at 1866 speeds

[@dancook4993]

Once again you blew it out of the water good video thank you.

[@piroresres3610]

¿Se imagina que Apple hubiese sacado el M4 con este chasis en 2024? Sería un lujo tanta potencia y un diseño tan elegante

[@MFEeee]

Sweet. I wanted to improve the performance of my trash can Mac Pro and currently only have the option of downgrading to an 8 core and upgrading my SSD to a more modern SSD with possibly double read and write speeds. I bought this Mac Pro essentially maxed out. But since then I’ve downgraded to the 64GB over the 128GB it came with and it definitely helped with speeds. So I’ll look into the 8 core and see the performance difference for myself

[@artysanmobile]

I have a number of MacPro models, some stock, some with serious upgrades in every department. I have found clock speed to be a very reliable analog for music application performance. I don’t think we can assume that every last bit of multi-thread capability is accessible to the majority of pro applications. As such, my 5,1 [cheese-grater] vintage MP is now a Hex 3.46GHz Xeon and my newer 6,1 [trashcan] is an 8-core 3GHz. I’ve noticed some of my apps have been soloed out for forced retirement by Apple. With OpenCore, we will defeat Apple’s corrupting intentions every single time.

[@AlawiKD999]

based on geekbench MacBook Pro (13-inch Late 2020) is beating 2013 mac pro on all aspects of computing, why do you advice to get one

[@ConstantGeekery]

I didn’t advise that. You’ve missed the point of the video.

[@AlawiKD999]

@@ConstantGeekery oh sorry ... I get it now

[@voegelm]

i just got my Trashcan. I went with the 12 core (still at the 6 core cpu atm- new cpu should arrive today) since I couldn't source a 8 core for a resonable price unless from china. Sonoma runs well even with the 6 core machine. Now the biggest rabbit hole will be the egpu thing...

[@VyacheslavMitin]

egpu very interesting!

[@crisomelido]

muchas gracias por tu enorme informacion saludos desde chile

[@fredvicary5935]

I would like to buy one of these also. i like your channel. In your video you said that when this mac becomes unsupported you said to use Opencore Legacy Patcher. Is it as safe as an unsupported mac. Could you please do a video on the pros and cons for Opencore Legacy Patcher.

[@ConstantGeekery]

I will be having a play with this in a future video. As far as I know, there are no safety issues using OCLP. Lots of folks use it without issue.

[@HAL.2024]

What about the 10 Core upgrade option? I think that one could beat the 8 and 12 for overall performance.

[@ConstantGeekery]

It’s somewhere in between. The 8-core will be quicker until you need the additional threads.

[@mamumonkan]

at how many RPM is everybody running their Macs Fan Control ????

[@theoverlord6437]

which is better 8 core v1680 or v2667?

[@ConstantGeekery]

2667 v2, but not by much

[@musclemua]

What about 8core vs 11core in a macbook pro m3? I bought a refurbished m3 with 24gb of unified memory but I also had the option to get the m3 pro chip but with only 18gb of ram. I decided it was best for me to opt for more memory than cores. Thoughts?

[@ConstantGeekery]

It depends on your use case. The M3 Pro doesn't just have more CPU cores - it has more GPU cores and more video decoders/encoders. For most users, these additional features would give more real-world benefits than the RAM increase.

[@myendlessdefiance9967]

what's best for music production running Logic Pro with a decent amount of VST instruments?

[@ConstantGeekery]

Logic Pro is an app that can make full use of the extra threads in the 12-core. Whether you need that many will depend on your specific compositions. When I tested the 12-core a few years back, it handled well over 100 software instrument tracks. Of course, not all software instruments are equal, and that's just one test, but I do know that a lot of music professionals chose the 12-core with this generation of Mac Pro. Either CPU can be bought on eBay for £20 - £30, so it can always be changed if you find you made the wrong choice.

[@PolluxChung]

This is totally for the geek types 😁

[@twoodcc]

can you install a 4 or 8 TB SSD in these machines?

[@transitengineer]

Yes, I have seen other videos on Ebay doing this. However, the SSD units need to be the right type and/or have the right adaptor.

[@ConstantGeekery]

As @transitengineer said, you can do it with a suitable NVMe drive and adapter. The thing to watch out for is heat. Larger drives may have NAND Flash chips on both sides of the board, which will be harder to cool. The SSD sits on top of one of the GPUs. Consider also the Amfeltec Angelshark, if you can find one.

[@thomasdietz579]

I got a base model quad-core with 32 gb ram and 512 gb ssd and a few month after that I got a very cheap 12core Mac pro with 32gb ram and 2tb ssd.. For someone like me who will be using it as my second studio/music computer what model will be the "best" As I wrote I make music using Logic and Ableton Live and a lot of differetnt plugins :-) will I notice any difference if I get 64gb ram instead of the 32 in the 12 core ?

[@ConstantGeekery]

The 12-core is a better choice for music production as Logic and similar apps can take full advantage of multiple CPU threads. For the RAM difference to be noticeable, it will depend on how many virtual instruments and plugins you are using. You can pick up 64GB sets on eBay quite cheaply now.

[@thomasdietz579]

@@ConstantGeekery Thanks :-)

[@john.advrider3536]

What OS are you running on a machine this old?

[@ConstantGeekery]

You can run the latest Sonoma on it without too much trouble.

[@bigdeagle1331]

Do the xeons have a graphics built in them?

[@ConstantGeekery]

Not as far as I know.

[@TheOhamd]

does a E5-2667V3 also working?

[@ConstantGeekery]

It's V2 chips only.

[@BrockSuire75]

I’m a macOS person, but work for AMD! If you want to hear the story about Apple using All AMD Products let me know.

[@ConstantGeekery]

I would have loved to have seen an Apple with AMD CPUs!

[@BeaglefreilaufKalkar]

So, you'll pay a couple of hundred for the Trashcan, spend the same on the CPU, Would a Mac Mini be more bang for your buck? I would not trust Geekbench to give a reliable answer to this, gotta test FCPX or something like that.

[@ConstantGeekery]

CPU is about £20 - £30. The video is not about which machine is best “bang for buck”. It’s about how to use CPU specs to make a sensible decision rather than basing a decision on Geekbench numbers. Not really sure how a Final Cut test would help understand available bins on Intel chips 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@MrAdhiSuryana]

Here, with the same price I can build 8 cores PC that way faster than this, ddr4 and faster nvme too 😂

[@ConstantGeekery]

Does that have any relevance to available bins on Intel chips?