A tale of two GRADO cartridges, one is $12K, the other $400!

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

There's an Audiophiliac imposter scamming my viewers, DON'T respond! I don't do giveaways or ask for money (except for my Patreon).

[@minsleyskidoo6327]

$12k for a cartridge would seem quite reasonable...if I had recently been dropped on my head.

[@IDPhotoMan]

$12,000. For a cartridge. I'd be embarrassed to even admit to owning such an extravagance.

[@geodog6854]

I'm so happy that you're giving Grado props. I have an 8MZ I bought over thirty years ago. It had been sitting on a shelf for several years until I put a new stylus on it and now it's making beautiful music again. I can only imagine what the Epoch 3 sounds like.

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

Grado has been selling truck loads of VERY affordable cartridges (all made in Brooklyn) since 1953, and now that they want to stretch out and make the best they can, that's an outrage!?! Give me a break! I paired the $12K cart with a $400 cart, which is also pretty terrific. Grado's product range covers an incredibly WIDE range and that bugs some of you.

[@piglingbland8666]

So hilarious when you get offended that people have the audacity to question the price tag of things like $12k cartridges. But keep on lecturing your viewers, that will work out really well for you.

[@andrewclough660]

@@piglingbland8666 it sounds like a sob story for mr grado. I don't care what he does but I'm not listening to a review of a 12,000 cart.

[@cnhhnc]

No one is fautling you, Steve, for reviewing a $12k cartridge, nor badmouthing Grado which makes good products. The only thing asked was what makes a cart worth $12K? That is a legitimate question. An honest question. And not even, necessarily, a polemical question. Now, if we consider Mr. Grado to be a kind of Stradivari (Stradivarius) of cartridges. If his EAR and skills are at the level of a genius artist/craftsman then, perhaps that kind of price is justified. Because then it becomes more than a question of MATERIALS. However, the jury might want to deliberate more on something like that. Art and the eye of the beholder, or the ear for that matter. No need to be so defensive. Sheesh, so touchy Steve, you've been around the block, you're in your seventh decade. It's all good.

[@stuartmartin3408]

It’s natural for us mere mortals to question how any manufacturer comes up with such a price for such an item, this thing cost the same as my second hand car! Is this cartridge worth 12K? who knows…only Mr Grado knows that answer. I suspect there is a pretty high profit margin in it but thats just my opinion, you don’t need to agree. Affordability is totally another thing altogether, if you are a very wealthy person then 12k for this magnificent sounding cartridge is probably pocket change to you, thats fine, but my guess is the majority of your viewers aren’t multi-millionaires. Therefore id say a strong reaction is to be expected when reviewing high price items. I like reviews of this high price stuff, its interesting as I’m never going to hear them myself, but it doesn’t stop me shaking my head in disbelief.

[@michealjaymurphy]

@@cnhhnc are you sure they make good products

[@cameronkrause4712]

I'm glad that you mix it up a bit, some of us might never hear a cartridge like that, so it is good for us to get an idea of what it is like.

[@paulclose3426]

I saw the movie Powaqqatsi in cinema in Johannesburg (about 1984?) and have never heard any other mention of it by anybody ever since… until your piece today. It was a fantastic art movie with amazing music and I never realised there was a vinyl of the soundtrack, which I shall now seek out… thank you Steve for bringing a long-forgotten memory to the fore again! Not sure I can afford a Grado - but my humble MP110 on a Micro Seiki BL-51 will play Powaqqatsi well enough for me to indulge some old memories....!

[@jackneidinger9544]

In the eighties I had a long conversation over the phone with Mr. Grado after returning a cartridge that didn't sound right to me. I think he called me. Not sure but they sent me another cartridge and it sounded fine. Not surprised to hear he's serious about sound. Impressive.

[@jerrondscott]

Steve, just one of the things I like about your show that no other audiophile show does is your music selection and your response to them. Reminds me back in the day where your favorite musician would have an interview and names some album you never heard before. So, you run out to find such album. I guess when we are older we replace it with speakers and amplifiers just to have that wow factor again. Keep it up!!!

[@3dimensionsofmusic3D]

Great review Steve. Hats off to Mr Grado for his dedication. The system of the day was Sweet. Greg

[@armanddimeo6575]

It is great to see you reviewing your local homegrown product from Brooklyn. Grado probably has to make a $12,000 cartridge to be taken seriously as a high end cartridge company. My first "serious" cartridge was a Grado F-3E+ that I bought in 1976. It made me a Grado fan for life. Grados may not be the most accurate cartridges but they connect me to the music in a way that no others can.

[@flynow5614]

Agree 100%

[@socksumi]

Grado's current base line models like the Black have severely rolled off high frequencies. Their older budget models like the F-3E+ and the FTE +1 were actually much better.

[@homerwinslow9047]

Years ago a stereo shop was closing out dual 1219s at a ridiculously low price. The catch was you had to buy it with a cartridge. I told the sales person give me the cheapest thing you’ve got. It was a $15 Grado. At that time I had the most expensive Shure cartridge that was available. I thought, just for fun, I would try the Grado. I was blown away. It just was phenomenal. Mini turntables later, I have always had a Grado available. I’ve had moving coils and I still have a few but there’s something about the Grado sound that I always go back to.Grado

[@chrish.4067]

I can relate. Take a Grado Black, which I have had, and play Led Zeppelin 1. Dual was my first turntable too. Probably the 1219?

[@johntrott9513]

I have a SL-1210G with a Musical Fidelity M3X stage. I'm raking it with a Nagaoka MP-500 but looking for something a bit more special. 12K is a bit of a stretch but I might check out some of the more affordable Grados.

[@hoobsgroove]

you should check out the goldring ethos cartridge very good for under £1000 highly recommend it. but if you've got the spondoolies,, then go for the van der hul crimson cartridge £3700 free check 200 hour service. that's what I will be going for when I've got spondoolies. one of the best cartridges in the world. I would say it's better than this $12,000 cartridge.

[@chrish.4067]

@@hoobsgroove you would speculate that it's better, or you compared them yourself?

[@hoobsgroove]

@@chrish.4067 ethos yes

[@chrish.4067]

@@hoobsgroove which Grados have you owned and listened to in your stereo system?

[@mythos5809]

Truth, the 3rd LP I bought back in the early 70's. Great stuff. 1st was Rolling Stones Through the Past Darkly, 2nd was Joan Baez One Day at a time. Still love them to this day.

[@rojona]

I have no problem Grado making this cartridge or Steve reviewing it. Steve's credibility will never be in doubt in my mind but this review seems colored by his affection for Grado (not shared by me) and almost automatic love that all reviewers have for ridiculously high priced products. I almost immediately dismiss these reviews for that reason. Fantasy is fun so it's all good really.

[@homerjones3291]

Love the cartridge reviews and comparisons, and don’t mind the pricey pieces at all. I think a lot of us are curious at what the uber-expensive bits give you (not that I can touch one of those). I’ve noticed that you set up your carts hanging pretty far off of the front, which can’t be from using the Technics alignment.

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

Thanks! My friend Michael Trei is a professional turntable set up guy. I forget which alignment he uses, but I trust his judgment. It is not a standard alignment.

[@mikrophonie5633]

This cartridge is so amazing, you'll hear the pops and clicks of vinyl as you've never heard them before! And for only $12K! Wonders never cease.

[@tomsherwood4650]

You must be a pup. Back in the day we lived with it. Up to a point.

[@CrazyAboutVinylRecords]

$12,000 = more money than brains; $400 now that's more like it.

[@thecarman3693]

The Epoch cartridge is not designed like most others; it is a moving iron (MI) design. This eliminates most of the moving mass associated with either moving magnet (MM) or moving coil (MC) designs. Both the coil and magnet are fixed, and what moves is a tiny piece of iron that wiggles between the two --- this causes a voltage variation (signal) in the coil. This is all the mass that's added to the cantilever, which allows it to track the groove to a much higher degree of accuracy than the other two designs. SoundSmith also makes MI cartridges and I recently acquired one. I can say that it reveals details from the record I have never heard before even though it's less than half the price of the Epoch. And one of those details (to me) is the decay of sound in a recording; to me it's one of those qualities that adds to the realism of sound. I wish Steve has mentioned this point, as it is not trivial and a vital detail in the performance of the cartridge.

[@Jared-91]

12k for a cartridge is ridiculous. I mean, a record only holds so much information. You can't bring out sounds and frequencies that aren't there. That being said, I do like Grado, and love their headphones. I might get a Grado cartridge someday. Probably at or below the $300 mark.

[@Leicaphile27]

Steve, why is reviewing super high end not your thing? As an audiophile and a diehard Audiophiliac viewer, I love hearing about this stuff. It's a vicarious thrill. It's also part of the spectrum of what's out there. An enthusiastic thumbs-up/like for this video!

[@helgar791]

I've always thought that not reviewing high end equipment is like loving cars but refusing to review the Lamborghini's, McLaren's and Ferrarri's of the world. Yes, few people will ever own or hear a 12K cartridge, but how can you know what compromises $500 and 1K cartridges have made in comparison? How can you ever really give someone on a budget a recommendation of equivalency?

[@net_news]

because crazy priced stuff upsets people... as simple as that.

[@stuartmartin3408]

$1000 per gram of pickup weight. Current gold price is $59.44 per gram. 🤣🤣

[@samuelreggio1611]

Great video. I love love love the Grado sound. I have the Sonata and the Reference, both high output. I want to try low output versions with different SUTs...

[@1999zrx1100]

In the same boat, running a high output Reference for a few years now and looking to upgrade. Picked up a nice Phono Preamp but hate to jump into MC’s and regret it. The Grado Master V3 Low output sure has my attention. 😎

[@MichelLinschoten]

Just get a CD player, you'd save so much money that much is clear .

[@thecarman3693]

Sorry, even a $50,000 CD player can't play recordings that weren't transferred to that medium. And there are plenty of recordings in that category from all genres of music.

[@iveydesainze3267]

Lol. Tell me you know nothing about audio without telling me you know nothing about audio.

[@Fluterra]

When you hear what a world-class turntable can do, it’s astonishing. No other medium, except maybe R2R tape, can capture the feeling of ‘being there’ like vinyl on a world-class TT. Unfortunately, that means a 6-figure investment. You may get very pleasing, very nice sound; but don’t kid yourself - a 6-figure table is much much better. It’s not ‘diminishing returns’… only your bank account diminishes. 😂

[@alphalimaindia9638]

It's funny to me that these 6-figure turntables have nowhere near the refinement and engineering that has gone into Technics turntables. And no other company has even spent half of the money that Technics has spent on turntable R&D.

[@cobar5342]

Grado make superb cartridges. I love them

[@alm5693]

That Jeff Beck album was a power quartet, not trio. Let's give a little love to drummer Micky Waller who (along with Ron Wood) added so much to Rod Stewart's early albums when he still knew how to rock honestly. Will any other cartridge ever sound exemplary to you again?

[@adamrenz4433]

Well, for your $12k you get 24k gold coils and a sapphire cantilever. I bet there are similarly priced carts with less costly materials. And I'd love to hear some Glass played by that cart!

[@thecarman3693]

It's a different animal altogether. The Epoch cartridge is not designed like most others; it is a moving iron (MI) design. This eliminates most of the moving mass associated with either moving magnet (MM) or moving coil (MC) designs. Both the coil and magnet are fixed, and what moves is a tiny piece of iron that wiggles between the two --- this causes a voltage variation (signal) in the coil. This is all the mass that's added to the cantilever, which allows it to track the groove to a much higher degree of accuracy than the other two designs. SoundSmith also makes MI cartridges and I recently acquired one. I can say that it reveals details from the record I have never heard before even though it's less than half the price of the Epoch. And one of those details (to me) is the decay of sound in a recording; to me it's one of those qualities that adds to the realism of sound.

[@lewgoogle5530]

Do you have enough headphones? All kidding aside, I find in general that MI type cartridges, the best of them, are preferred over even very good MC types.

[@italianbirdvideos6190]

After choosing the $12K cartridge you realize that you'll get about a year/year and a half with the cartridge and that it'll need replacing. Suddenly the $400 cartridge starts to make more sense...

[@LifeCraftingProgram]

Thanks for your info and excitement on the Grado Epoch 3. I'd love to know your thoughts and any related experience re comparison between this Grado and The Hana Umami Red and the Dynavector XV-1s. These are obviously all top high end carts each with their respective followings and raving fans. I've been very oriented towards Dynavector on a Linn LP-12 for some time. Presently i have the more modest 10x5 which I love but looking to upgrade soon to a high end cart still with the LP-12.

[@nationalsfanaticable]

Holy Crap!! That Album by Jeff Beck is Insane!!! - Thanks for mentioning it Steve.... my listening has had some wonderful additions because of you. Jeff Beck - electric guitars, acoustic guitar on "Greensleeves"; pedal steel guitar on "Shapes of Things"; bass guitar on "Ol' Man River"; lead vocals on "Tallyman" and "Hi Ho Silver Lining", co-lead vocals on "Let Me Love You" Rod Stewart - lead vocals, backing vocals on "Hi Ho Silver Lining", possible backing vocal on "Tallyman"[citation needed] Ronnie Wood - bass guitar Micky Waller - drums Additional credited personnel John Paul Jones - bass guitar on "Hi Ho Silver Lining" and "Beck's Bolero"; Hammond organ on "Ol' Man River" and "You Shook Me"; arrangements on "Hi Ho Silver Lining" Nicky Hopkins - piano on "Morning Dew", "You Shook Me", "Beck's Bolero" and "Blues Deluxe" "You Know Who" (Keith Moon) - drums on "Beck's Bolero"; timpani on "Ol' Man River" Additional uncredited personnel Madeline Bell - backing vocals on "I've Been Drinking" John Carter and Ken Lewis - backing vocals on "Tallyman" Clem Cattini - drums on "Hi Ho Silver Lining" Aynsley Dunbar - drums on "Tallyman" and "Rock My Plimsoul (single version)" Jimmy Page - 12-string electric guitar on "Beck's Bolero"

[@froidd758]

Help me decide Steve, no need to further explain. In the same price range: 1. SUMIKO Songbird Low 2. DYNAVECTOR 20X2 L 3. GRADO Master 3 Low Matching: VPI Prime Scout with Sutherland KC Vibe phono amp.

[@allenfields9058]

Seems like Grado is "damned if they do, damned if they don't" based on the viewer comments.

[@charleskatz2606]

I worked for a dealership that sold Grado and back up as would many many) that John is one of the nicest guys in Hifi. Really glad the headphone thing came in before people went back to platters.Now what I'd ike to do is get the chance to compare the Grado Lineage series Master3 at $3500 with the Aeon3 at $6K and stretch my budget beyond my current $1K Master.BTW Herb Reichert also described the the Koetsu Aeon as out-psychelic-ing his Koetsu Rosewood Signature which is similarly priced.

[@elonmuskrat2830]

Only $12,000? Ha ha ha, that is chump change to me! I am the richest muskrat on planet Earth.

[@jamesminotto8036]

Just replaced my Sumiko Moonstone with the Grado Timbre Platinum 3. Your review nailed it! Thank you from IATSE Local 336!

[@sidvicious3129]

Hi Steve, what Headshell and cartridge leads/wires are you using from the cartridge on your Technics SL-1200G?

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

LP Gear Zupreme 10 Gram, don't remember the headshell wires.

[@dougdavis8986]

What percent of a turntables sound is the cartridge? For example, would it be stupid to put a $12,000 cartridge on a $500 turntable or do you have to put it on a high end table?

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

I think that would be kind of weird, but I am pretty sure that anybody who’s got the cash for $12,000 cartridge doesn’t have to skimp on the turntable. I don’t own these things, I review them.

[@savagej4y241]

This is actually a good rhetorical question. Would a cartridge literally made with gold and sapphire make a more accessible turntable sound like ambrosia from heaven? No one will test such a configuration, so it may as well not exist. In reality, that $12,000 cartridge probably wouldn't enhance a $500 turntable any more than the $400 cartridge.

[@louismozdzen7238]

How do you enter the audiophile system of the week?

[@frederickfranchi6408]

Damn you got me, I wish I could hear that Grado cartridge☹

[@madisongraham9307]

Steve- thanks for sharing a product in the upper end of Hi-Fi quality, very insightful. And yes, Jeff Beck and company “Truth” should be in every collection- it is a milestone work.

[@Aswaguespack]

Jeff Beck’s artistry is of the highest of levels among contemporary guitarists in his genre. I’ve found so many “gems of excellence” among his entire body of work that it becomes difficult to specifically point out just one example. That being said some particular albums can serve as a great launching point to delve deeply into Beck’s legacy. Truth is one of those.

[@nathanrodriguez5891]

If you have extra money, spend it on what you love. Glad to hear you’re enjoying it.

[@tomdavis6371]

I owned a Grado cartridge once. Long ago; back in the mid to later 80's. G2+ maybe? I can't recall al the model numbers anymore of everything that I owned and either wore out, sold off or upgraded. I recall two things about this cartridge though... it was about $295 back then, BIG dough for a 24 or 25 year old not making a lot of money, and I loved it on my beautiful Denon DP55K. I'm 61 years old, out of the vinyl game for a couple of decades now because it all became overwhelmingly difficult to carry up and down stairs with each move and to have to store it all. And to hear of a $12K cartridge gives me another reason not to miss vinyl. To each his or her own, but I won't look back.

[@dannyfannyfoodle]

Great viewer system! Looks really well thought out and nicely setup - I bet it sounds incredible.

[@iantyler4045]

I briefly had a Grado cartridge back in the 70's. It sounded very nice but unfortunately it's output was too low for my preamp so I swapped it for an Empire cartridge of similar cost. Had a Garrot brothers stylus fitted to it which took it to another level.

[@carlosflup]

there's another grado that would appeal to masses even more: Grado Opus 3 (around 290€$). Would love to know what you think...

[@Aswaguespack]

Ennio Morricone was among the foremost composers of the last 100 years of cinema. How he weaved so many thematic ideas into his scores is remarkable. While his scores for the “Spaghetti Westerns” like “A Fistful of Dollars” are among his most iconic works, my personal favorite is “The Mission”. I would love to hear that on the Cornwall 4s. 👍🏻 Good presentation SG!

[@labernese]

Yes, what a great soundtrack.

[@Aswaguespack]

@@labernese YES it is. That movie was nominated for 7 Academy Awards but won the Oscar for its dazzling Cinematography (without the wacky SpfX that usually wins Cinematography Awards). Best Soundtrack award went to Herbie Hancock for Round Midnight (1987) that year.

[@zztop7000]

How much is the Grando platinum 3 replacement cost? Because I'm getting this to upgrade my Victrola T-1 turntable I'm also using Emotiva phono preamplifier.

[@sviatoslavbogatyrev746]

Hi Steve. Based on your review I purchased both S L 1200GR and Grado Platinum 3. It sounds amazing! I still have my Mitchell Orbe though. I have a question: what vtl setting you had with Platinum?

[@artyfhartie2269]

The $12,000 cartridge is for those who live in a padded cell strapped to a chair.

[@NickAlsmiller]

Steve: Love you shows! Question. Why have you not reveiwed turntable mats? If you have, I haven't found them. I would like to see you undertake this really tweeky area. I own a Ringmat and have found it a big improvement. I have used it on Regas, Technics, Thorens and ARs all with substantial results. Thanks for the hard work!

[@flynow5614]

John Grado is a stand up guy. I'm on cart 5. You can keep everything else.

[@ronanderson5736]

This is probably the most difficult thing to achieve, trying to match a turntable with a cartridge, with speakers, with the rest of your components! You could spend tons of money, trying to get that perfect sound! But we all love that challenge!

[@chrish.4067]

So much negativity in the comments by people who know and feel so much less than Steve. Many, perhaps most, have not listened to a Grado cartridge. LOL, everyone is an expert. Thanks Steve for what you do.

[@cameronkrause4712]

I'm with u Chris. Frankly, all the negativity gets really boring. It seems as soon as someone does something that has the potential to be exceptional then all the negative people think that they have to chime in. Hifi is very prone to this kind of thing. But speaking of Grado I bought their cheapest cartridge and it sounds wonderful. I think that these people really care about hifi.

[@tubemon9511]

Hey Steve someone hint hint needs to review some of the mid priced Grados. Like the Reference maybe.

[@briancantaldi4805]

What headshell do you use for the 1200? I've got a 1200 as well, and am thinking getting a Grado myself. Thanks in advance

[@andrewconger5045]

Thank you for the great review. I have a Sl-1200gr on order and am considering the Grado Sonata 3. I was worried about potential installation/alignment issues with the GR, but you’ve clearly been able to make the Grado carts work.

[@EclecticApotheosis]

What might be an interesting comparison (to me) would be comparing a record with the EPOCH 3 to the same album in a very good (audiophile) hi-res digital version, played through a DAC in the $1000-2000 range.

[@rrvillan]

Love the review, but I have a question about the Platinum3 is that a Low or High output?

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

Low output

[@mediascapes2011]

you mention the distinct "grado sound", it would be nice to hear what its characteristics are. How is surface noise, background blackness?

[@1999zrx1100]

I’m looking to upgrade my Grado which I love, the Master V3 sure looks interesting. Wonder how it compares to these two reviewed. 🤓

[@frankgeeraerts6243]

That's what digital lacks........

[@lwdp74]

Would be nice if some of the Ipoch’s technology was filtered into their lower priced models. It’s hard to see $12, in parts and labour? I would guess there was a lot of development cost. Keeping production locally is great. Personalizes the product.😊

[@PDCRed]

Would love to know the markup on such an item. Must be eye watering.

[@Ididntaskforahandleyoutube]

Dude, the cartridge game is just that: a game. The markup must be disgusting. If these audiophiles had to do blind tests starting and $500 and up, they would fail being able to tell most of them apart.

[@mortlach186]

I noticed a rack filled with headphones. Something like 28 that I could count. Are those all yours or are most of them under review?

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

Most reviewed many years ago. I used to do a lot of headphone reviews, not true anymore.

[@AdrianIII]

Betcha the $12K one is more finicky and less reliable than the $400 one!

[@adotopp1865]

You would like to think so wouldn't you Adrian?

[@adambrown8867]

You have so much expensive gear, with all those Pass Labs units, & Klipsch Cornwall IV speakers. You've got a $4K turntable. You could easily justify a $2K cartridge for it as your daily workhorse cartridge. You could have justified an $8K cartridge on the SME you had. Your JC3+ is worthy of any cartridge I expect. My theory on vinyl playback cost, is thirds. One for the deck, one for the arm, one for the cartridge. I can't afford my own theory unfortunately.

[@jked7463]

You went from champagne to lager beer. How do these two grados compare to a good chablis or shiraz?

[@cnhhnc]

It would be interesting to explain WHAT it is in an item as SMALL as a cartridge that makes it worth $12K? Certainly not the materials. You could have a cart made of solid gold and it would not be worth that much. Does it take two years, perhaps, to make the cartridge and dozens of engineers? It is just hard to wrap ones mind around that price. And the fact that Mr. Grado himself is mostly responsible for the sound is not enough. One would expect a mulit-million dollar sound lab with a team of sound engineers and exotic material facilities to be involved in such a production. Just because one can set a price does not necessaily mean the item is worth that. In other words, why not $6K, or $4K, of $2K. What is it that makes it $12K? I'm not questioning the idea that something can be worth HUGE amounts of money, but just HOW those items are priced, the process. The Justification.

[@mladenbasic1]

Ditto with $50,000 speaker cables. The profit margins are downright insulting.

[@tomsherwood4650]

Did you catch they are one-offs hand made, not production line pickoffs? If he decided to set up a line and build tens of thousands of them, the price would be vastly smaller, but individual QC might not be as good, they would just check them to be in a window of specs to pass or fail. You might build ten amps by hand and you would not sell them for peanuts.

[@RickRoberts_simplyrick]

Opportunity Cost

[@EddyTeetree]

@@tomsherwood4650 however it’s $12k! So even with $2k in parts it’s an hundred hours at $100 an hr. A hundred hrs to build a cartridge? Crazy stuff. I doubt the builder gets $50 an hr. or takes more than say 20hrs to build one. 50x20 = $1000 + $2000 parts = $3k = at least $9k profit. The $400 model is sounding better and better.

[@stevengagnon4777]

I'm laughing....his time is worth much more than 100 dollars an hour. Not too mention the countless unseen hours developing and testing and more developing and testing....this exists because he could make it exist.

[@royrice6060]

I can see the extra cost for a cartridge made out of walnut or granite or even cast iron. Lead would probably be the best.

[@garyjones5947]

Fascinating review…thank you.

[@weeooh1]

I'd love to see a scratch DJ working with this.

[@tomsherwood4650]

IF they can afford big chunks of gold bling they can maybe burn thru expensive carts too.

[@OFBCyclingWorld]

Would love to hear your take on the Hana SL low output cartridge?

[@raymondmoran2881]

There's a moving coil cartridge the has the coils iin back of the stylis. I think its a audio technica.

[@The-Spotlight-Kid]

It must be easily15'ish or maybe even 20 years ago when i bought a wood bodied Grado Platinum model something M.I. cartridge that cost me £220 (G.B.) after a £30 discount they gave me as a time'served good customer of that hifi dealers, (when the exchange rate was about 1.6'ish Dollars per 1 G.B. Pound sterling) I bought it as i'd heard the very same Grado model sound excellent on a friend's Eminent Technology L.T. tonearm/ t/table system. Straight away after i fitted it on my tonearm, i noticed it made a "fu fu fu fu.." fluttering sound superimposed on top of the music, with a time period of about the same speed or slightly faster as you'd read that phonetic description of the unwanted added sound. I instantly recognised this as a cartridge /tonearm missmatch to my Alphason Xenon tonearm i had at that time. (& still have stashed away after a later upgrade) Usimg blu-tack, i tried incrementally adding mass to the Alphason tonearm & quickly realised it was the tomearm that was too high a mass to match the Grado properly & drilling holes through the one piece titanium tube/headshell of the tonearm was a no-no. Instead of taking it back for a refund to that particular dealer in my Cambridge u.k. hometown where i bought it from, as he'd gladly done before with some items. (Ah, those good old trusted hifi dealer days) I thought i'd first let a good friend who'd recently spoke to me of improving on his own Goldring something model of M.M. cartridge that was a bit too harsh sounding in the upper mid range, which i also agreed it was on some music. So i took the Grado around his house & fitted it for him which he was keen to hear. He had an SME Series III tonearm that was known for it's relatively low'ish mass & with an alternative arm-tube of higher or lower mass than the one he had the Goldring on. So i fitted & aligned the Grado Platinum to the spare armtube & we sat & listened & that Grado lifted the quality of his stereo, which i was used to the sound of, to a far higher level & with perfect cartridge to tonearm matching i.e. with absutely no "fu fu fu ..." sound as it played various genres of music & we were both impressed. I was so impressed that i was sad it had not matched my own higher mass Alphsson as it sounded superb to me tho i said nothing so as not to seem i was trying to make a sale. I left it with him for 2 days for him to make up his mind & with the 2 tubes he could have compared the Grado with his own Goldring. After i returned a 2 or 3 days later, he said he couldn't possibly go back to his Goldring mow, which itself was no cheapie at £210 with the top costing stylus option he bought it with, so we were both happy & i ended up putting the £220 he happily gave me for the Grado towards a Denon M.C. that suited my Alphason tonearm very well. But i did gain a newfound respect for Grado cartridges which i'd not heard for some years nor heard their then new wood bodied M.I. cartridges. Just a pity it didnt suit my own Alphason Xenon tonearm's mass but i enjoyed music much better when i visited that friend who bought it off me i, he was delighted with it as it kinda slayed his older & only slightly cheaper Goldring cartridge.

[@Another_Audiophile]

Did at least get the chance to keep the cartridge or you have to return it?

[@joshuaschneck]

Nice review Steve. Curious why you didn't pair the $12k cartridge with the Van Den Hul preamp that I think is in your rig? Seems like it would be a better match with super premium Grado cartridge than the $3k Parasound...

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

Thanks! The VDH is optimized for low impedance moving coil carts.The Grado his high internal impedance and it’s a moving iron design

[@mikeschoolcraft21]

However exotic the materials, many hours research and other factors that price is 10 times what anyone would spend.

[@ericshutter5305]

12k is a little too rich for me. But I will try a 1k one, just for fun...

[@chutgowdingo-loon3212]

$12K for a cartridge ? I guess Grado can now claim bragging rights to having one of the most expensive cartridges which now puts Johnin that elitist club of manufacturers. 2 questions for Steve - is the Epoch 3 cartridge (at 30 times the price) 3, 4, 5 or 10 times better than the $400 cartridge ? I guess not, huh ? When does reality bite ? Having been in this business for close to 50 years, IMHO, the high price is the placebo - it always creates the impression and perception of quality and superiority.

[@pandstar]

First of all, expecting a certain sonic increase to somehow equate to the price increase, is (I believe) faulty thinking. If the person spending the extra $$ thinks that even a minor improvement is worth the not so minor increase in expenditure, then it is worth it, to them. My experience in high end audio has been, the higher up one gets, the less the sonic differences become per money spent. So what? It is up to each individual to to decide their own point of diminishing returns. What might be an inconsequential difference to one person, may stick out like a sore thumb to another. I have taken part in many blind listening tests over the years. I can say, with only a few exceptions, I have chosen the more expensive piece of gear as the better sounding one. Many times, without even knowing what I am comparing.

[@chutgowdingo-loon3212]

@@pandstar I agree, though even now I still come across many who are of the opinion that price and branding somehow equate to superior performance. My advice to them is to ignore the looks, the name, the the hype and the price - to just listen.

[@savagej4y241]

@@pandstar The irony here being that according to John Grado himself, when the SR80 headphones debuted at the Consumer Electronics Show, people who blind listened thought they were "a nice $200 pair of headphones" when it was being sold for $70. Audiophiles rarely pass a real live blind listening test.

[@EddyTeetree]

$400 to $12k is a huge jump. Would have been nice to hear opinions on something in the middle ground from the same manufacturer?

[@pauldavies6037]

would sound even better on the SME shame Steve sold it

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

But I did listen to the cartridge on the SME for weeks, and then on the Technics. I have no regrets selling the SME

[@Michael-xz1nk]

It amazes me that the top of the line Technics table is loved and preferred by many audiophiles and DJ's. I guess I am way out of touch with tables these days since going 100% digital many moons ago. In the late 70's, every "tourist electronics store" on 5th Avenue in NYC had Technics tables in their enormous maze like window displays of all kinds of electronics...cameras, binoculars, stereo equipment, sunglasses, you name it. Those window displays were intense and fun to say the least. Hence, I never thought of Technics as a high end / special /beloved audio brand, which I now learn is incorrect. To each their own.

[@pauldavies6037]

@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac ok that Technics must be good enough

[@pauldavies6037]

@@Michael-xz1nk I agree Technics always had huge marketing and promotion the SP10 was a good turntable those "dj" ones never impressed me Thorens and Linn were far better

[@Michael-xz1nk]

I was a Linn LP12 guy before I left vinyl.

[@Mark-Book]

Great review, $12,000. If you've got it. spend it. Would love to hear it.

[@lloll69]

highest price per size item in audio. gasp. mind boggling. I imagine my hand shake when cueing the cart. 12000/1000 hours thats 12 dollars an hour of music

[@keithwalker8090]

If that hour spent listening to the music was as good as an hour-long orgasm, would it be worth 12 dollars an hour?

[@millermark445]

What else can one buy for $12,000? Think about that. Priorities priorities. I would think that once you get into the $1000 range in cartridges, it's a classic case of diminishing returns.

[@thecarman3693]

Not quite. It's a different animal altogether. The Epoch cartridge is not designed like most others; it is a moving iron (MI) design. This eliminates most of the moving mass associated with either moving magnet (MM) or moving coil (MC) designs. Both the coil and magnet are fixed, and what moves is a tiny piece of iron that wiggles between the two --- this causes a voltage variation (signal) in the coil. This is all the mass that's added to the cantilever, which allows it to track the groove to a much higher degree of accuracy than the other two designs. SoundSmith also makes MI cartridges and I recently acquired one. I can say that it reveals details from the record I have never heard before even though it's less than half the price of the Epoch. And one of those details (to me) is the decay of sound in a recording; to me it's one of those qualities that adds to the realism of sound.

[@theworldstallestdwarf8059]

Does it have a wooden stylus? Watch out for termites! Your $12k cartridge might get eaten! Lolz

[@bryzabone]

8:00 of just fanboy ranting about the guy, not the product.. I didn’t trust this review. You’re clearly enamoured with guy who produced it, not the sound of the cartridge. I would highly recommend a high quality, high rate DAC to record, and store you’re reviews for future reference , so you CAN compare gear to an old review

[@waterlover]

Lol!! Crazy money isn’t the word. Crazy how they ask for something so cheaply made

[@alfonsodelafreg259]

I imagine it would take him upwards of several man-weeks to make one of those. What would a company value that much time of its owner / presedent / CEO? We are not even talking materials. You wants to play with the big boys you gots to pay. Also, how many you think get tossed before he gets a good one?

[@quinnmarshall8653]

Very on brand that you would try to push people towards the $12K cartridge.

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

I don’t think I can push too many people, probably very very few people in that direction! If that was the purpose of this review it’s an utter failure. That’s why I also included a $400 cartridge that many viewers could buy or at least be interested in.

[@LA-db9xj]

Somebody, somewhere will be laughing 🤣 all the way to the bank with each one sold. 💰💰💰

[@stuartmartin3408]

For sure, but the audio fools need to resort to digs like the guy above. They need to persuade themselves this is justified being such a high price. But if you’re a multi millionaire then this is pocket change.

[@minsleyskidoo6327]

@Ruben Ramero Not as many people that would laugh at a tool who pops up in every video for expensive gear, defending it to his dying breath! Do these companies give you a pat on the head or toss you a dog biscuit for your valiant efforts? 🤣🤣🤣

[@LA-db9xj]

@Ruben Ramero Indeed. Like I would laugh at yours Ruuuuben!

[@konstantinost3185]

John Grado wanted to compete and surpass with the likes of Koetsu and Lyra $10000 priced cartridges so he made one that sells it for $12000.🙄 It makes sense in the audiophoolery world of listening with the "price tag"...😁

[@frozerekmeyata4091]

I'm sorry Steve, but this is an absurd comparison, sort of like saying a Ferrari Roma is so much better than a Toyota Corolla...you think? Who can afford a $400 range cartridge is going to jump to a $12,000 dollar one, or vice versa? Then comes the big question, how much are the new stylus for that $12,000 cart? Probably more than the $400 cartridge itself. But someone who can afford a $12,000 cart isn't going to cry foul when a new stylus is needed and the price is $1,000.

[@ericelliott227]

Most audiophiles can easily afford a $12,000 phono cartridge and they will claim it beats $400 carts! Of course, that is not true. A $12,000 will never outperform a $400 cart unless you change the setup of your table between the two. If the stylus shape is the same and the design MM to MM or MC to MC and you set up the carts the same with as much accuracy as possible and all the downstream gear being the same, I would be willing to bet that one could not tell the difference in an A/B comparison. There is nothing inherently wrong with sticking a $12k cart on a $4000 table or even a $600 table as long as the tonearm can handle it. The real question is why would you want to in the first place? I am thinking of trying a Grado cart (Platinum). Is a $12k cart more accurate than a $400 cart? Nope! Properly set up and if the same type and stylus, they are equally accurate. If you want to get into the weeds, you will need to check that the stylus in manufacturing is dead accurate and the same. Good luck with that, as we have all been finding of late that they can be way off!

[@thecarman3693]

The Epoch cartridge is not designed like most others; it is a moving iron (MI) design. This eliminates most of the moving mass associated with either moving magnet (MM) or moving coil (MC) designs. Both the coil and magnet are fixed, and what moves is a tiny piece of iron that wiggles between the two --- this causes a voltage variation (signal) in the coil. This is all the mass that's added to the cantilever, which allows it to track the groove to a much higher degree of accuracy than the other two designs. SoundSmith also makes MI cartridges and I recently acquired one. I can say that it reveals details from the record I have never heard before even though it's less than half the price of the Epoch. And one of those details (to me) is the decay of sound in a recording; to me it's one of those qualities that adds to the realism of sound.

[@stevengagnon4777]

​@@thecarman3693the moving iron sound is why I still have my Stanton 681 since 1978 . I am currently using a Stanton L747S on my Technics SL-7. Such a cute little close"n"play. Anyway I had quite a few MM and MI cartridges and always preferred the moving iron. From my experience with the lower end of things ( although I don't consider the 681 low end by any means) there is a quality in the overall sound stage that a moving magnet cartridge just doesn't have. It's in the design principle . There is a large electromagnetic field in conjunction with the coils. The small changes in flux occur more instantaneously than in a moving magnet system resulting in a more accurate dimensional trace of the signal. I can say the Stanton moving iron sound stage is wonderful. I once had a wall of rail road ties about 13 feet tall and 24 feet wide. I set uo a system in a bicycle shop show room on a very tight budget. With a Technics direct drive turntable and a Stanton 680. After hours when I was done for the day I set a chair down about 18 feet back. I cranked it and I had a stage in front of me full of performers. It was amazing. I had it going for about a decade . Oh that was hard to take down.

[@RGMDG]

What’s the saying about a fool and his money??

[@scottyo64]

Well if you have a 100k turntable this is right in line. Just because its not worth it to you doesn't mean its not worth it to others.

[@skipgordon5382]

It supports the philosophy that putting money closest to the source is the way to go. Why have a $12,000 table and a $ 3000 cartridge?

[@georgelancaster1674]

Cool. keep it Steve

[@hippydippy]

$12K for a cartridge is absolutely "INSANE" to me! Gimme a break...

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

OK, how about the $400 one?!

[@michaelsmullen9891]

hippydippy There has to be cartridrges out there for the millionaires and billionaires to spend their money on. You wouldn't want to think that there's people out there that don't have to check their bank statements.

[@scottersandman6408]

12k is beyond stupid...feed hungry people. shelter the homeless, cloth the naked....

[@jchborg90277]

Really, really well-done review.

[@adotopp1865]

Yes I thought it was too. I've read about high end stuff before and never really had a feeling of what it would be like in context but this video review was comprehensive to me.