How to Choose the Perfect Phono Cartridge Compliance Profile for Your Turntable and the Tonearm

[@tomkershaw4384]

Ben, I am so glad I found your channel ! I remember back in the 70's when compliance and other stylus and tonearm specs were frequently highlighted and discussed for their relevance. Nowadays few people talk about it or seem to care. These are the aspects that people need to understand for a great sounding turntable. I subscribed immediately!

[@BensAudioCave]

Thanks for the kind words… just trying to help folks!

[@petercrisp3006]

I have always ignored the problem because of the complexity. Thank you for sharing your views.

[@williamlaskowski4666]

Amazing video. I can't thank you enough for explaining the detail and working the calculations.

[@JoeOrber]

Wow, thanks Ben, I didn't even think of something like this when buying new headshells and cartridges, math will definitely help, happy holidays 😀

[@BensAudioCave]

Glad I can help!

[@chatrs1025]

Thank very much for this good knowledge. I own P6/RB330 and people recommended AT33PTG/2. I bought it then found your video. AT33PTG/2 mass is 6.9 grams. AT33PTG/2 dynamic compliance 10×10-6cm/dyne (100Hz) times 1.5 is 15×10-6cm/dyne (10Hz). RB330 effective mass is 11 grams. So that's right there at the sweet spot. Next time, I can choose cartridge with confidence.

[@BensAudioCave]

Great to hear… I find the compliance closer to 16-17 on my PTG but hey… I know it works well on the rb330 just be mindful of VTA!

[@kjb7229]

Ben, Really enjoyed this. Very informative and easy to follow - thanks! I do have a question - @10:39 you use 19.2 (4.5 + 7.5 + 7.2) as the cart total mass for the 2M Black for a resonate freq. of = 7.747. This makes sense. However, @23:08, using the same formula, you use 23.4 (4.5 + 12 + 6.9) for the AT PTG33. This does not make sense to me. It looks like you used the value for tonearm effective mass (12) instead of the headshell weight of 7.5. If I understand correctly, the only thing that changed for M (aggregate of arm mass + headshell + cart weight) between the 2M Black and the AT PTG33 is the cart weight, 7.2 vs. 6.9. In other words, should you have used 4.5 + 7.5 + 6.9 = 18.9 for M instead of 4.5 + 12 + 6.9? This would have resulted in a resonance of 9.45 which is even better than the 8.495 you show. Bottom line - the ATPTG33 coupled with the Technics SL1200 is absolutely a great combination with a resonance of 9.45. Please correct me if I am wrong. Thanks again for your work!

[@BensAudioCave]

The discrepancy is in the headshell… at that time it was on a 12g Jelco hewsdshell

[@kjb7229]

@@BensAudioCave Thanks Ben. What do you think about the "Ortofon Revises Cartridge Resonance Chart, Expands "Useable" Range" article? Also do you know if the new SL100C is similar to the SL1500 or SL1200? Thanks

[@BensAudioCave]

@@kjb7229 I will say the 2M’s still perform pretty well irrespective of all this… that said I can pick out the compliance of a cart these days by ear… the test record (not shown here) pretty much confirms it… but usable is a definition that is very qualitative… lots of things are useable…. As for the 100c; closer to the 1500.. 1200GR and G are in another league… GR still being lesser…

[@kjb7229]

@@BensAudioCave Ben thanks again for the quick response! Hope this isn't too off topic, but I would really like your opinion on belt driven tables. In particular, The new Uturn Orbit Theory. I am trying to decide between the Theory with the 2M Bronze vs. the SL100C with the VM540ML. Using your methods (great instruction BTW), I come up with the following assuming the arm on the 100C is 12g without headshell. SL100C with Audio Technica VM540ML (x 1.75 @100 Hz Japan) M = 12 + 7.6 + 6.4 = 26g (tonearm + headshell + cart) C = 10 x 1.75 = 17.5 (VM540ML is actually around 23-25cu) Res Freq. = 6.371 SL100C with Audio Technica PTG33 (x 1.5 @100 Hz Japan) M = 12 + 7.6 + 6.9 = 26.5g C = 10 x 1.5 = 15 Res Freq. = 7.983 @C=24 - Res Freq. = 6.311 Orbit Theory U-Turn Orbit Theory with Ortofon 2M Bronze M = 8 + 7.2 = 15.2g (tonearm + cart) C = 22 Res Freq. = 8.703 Am I doing these calculations correctly? If so, what would you recommend? Thanks again for your time!

[@BensAudioCave]

@@kjb7229 Actually the 12g is WITH the headshell... and the VM540ML is like 6.4g... I will tell you that combo is an EXCELLENT fit... The Orbit theory is meh ok... Honestly the one belt drive table I have consistently loved is my Audio Technica LP7 in my office and it comes with a 520EB so really just swap out the stylus for the 40VNML and you have a budget STAR! It has VTA, the best Wow and Flutter you'll ever get for under $1000 or maybe even more and the speed stability rivals my modded SL 1200mk2 and it's pretty... Link to table below: amzn.to/3RhopAk

[@JoshC321]

Excellent info!

[@leeyounger2518]

Great content! Thank you

[@BensAudioCave]

thanks for watching!

[@leeyounger2518]

@@BensAudioCave Money Saver + Better Sound, Winning! Thank you Sir

[@VinylRescue]

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I've tried making sense of trying to figure out the compliance thing using the same sights you showed, but wasn't able to compute! I use four different turntable with several different headshells with about 5-6 different carts. Now I can go over my setup and figure out what I need to adjust.

[@BensAudioCave]

I hope it’s helpful! Big bunch of math but worth it so much 😊

[@astolatpere11]

I use a Philips GA312 tt. Until I put a high compliance cart on it, it just was ok. I put a vintage ADC high compliance cart on and that tt sings! Great vid.

[@homerjones3291]

Ben, thanks for working through the examples - always helps to see a concrete example. I’m missing something here - a lot of reviewers (and Technics themselves, when they ship G, GR to reviewers) include the 2M Black and rave about the combination. The new models have the same effective mass tonearm as the older ones, which doesn’t jive because the GR head shell is 1g heavier than the mkii one on paper. I have a mkii as well and have a few head shells, and the calculations always work out better with the lightest head shell.

[@BensAudioCave]

You're not wrong... I thought it sounded a bit stuffed until I used a Hitachi 6g headshell... Then it was great but had to give up some azimuth adjustment but was able to correct it enough in the collar... It is a snug fit though... Thanks for watching :)

[@jespernohr]

Thank you for an amazing video. I am in the process of reviving my dad's old JVC QL-A7, and was looking into what kind of cartridge I could fit. If my Google fu and information gathering is correct then the effective mass of the tone arm is 14g with the stock headshell being 10g. I should be able to fit a Nagaoka MP-110H for a total mass of 19g and with compliance of 19, it should give me a resonance freq. of 8.377Hz. So it seems like a decent fit :) The calculator showed me that it would be better to go with the Nagaoka headshell than the standard headshell (1.5g lighter). Having never done this before, I was wondering if anybody could validate my findings?

[@BensAudioCave]

it's my understanding that the actual effective mass of the arm is around 14g WITH the headshell... Now what I would say is the Nagoka MP-110 is a bonded elliptical and that QL-A7 is a premium turntable and deserves something a bit better... I would likely go with something like the AT-VM95ML minimum. The AT headshell is 10g and the compliance is around 16 so you would be better sounding at a resfreq of like 8.875 and it can be ordered here: amzn.to/3PZoRUC Now that said; it you could stretch your budget just a bit; the AT540ML is a match made in heaven for your table... great generator and the same nude microline stylus and a resfreq of 8.8 It can be found here with a 10g headshell amzn.to/4aN3myi Your table has the VTA needed to make a microline be the ultimate performer and they are what I run... Just some friendly advice what is going to give you great sound! I would also pick up an azimuth ruler from here: amzn.to/3PYpDBf Also make sure you set the overhang correctly and align your cart correctly and you will be shocked at how good that table will sound. Happy listening and thanks for watching!

[@jespernohr]

@@BensAudioCave Thank you for the detailed answer and recommendations. I have kind of fallen i love with the Nagaoka sound and the reason for the MP-110 is that it seems to be good value for the money. However, if I truly get addicted to vinyl then I'll be upgrading to a MP-300 or MP-500 when I am in Japan next year (almost half the price there compared to Denmark).

[@jespernohr]

@@BensAudioCave With that said I just saw the price of the AT540ML. Fairly affordable I have to say :)

[@BensAudioCave]

@@jespernohr Check out the sound of the AT33-PTG/2 on one of my other videos... so sweet and neutral and the 540VM is like it in a mm form factor... The tracking so sweet though... To me better than the MP-500 :O

[@Mike-lp2th]

Thanks a lot! We don't want any fat and ugly sound 🙂 I have the SL-1200GR and being a newbie on the compliance thing, I need to check some recent purchases and certainly before the next purchase. I watched the Italian KZbin dude take a wack at explaining this and had to check out before the end, but with one and a half of these tutorials under my belt, I think I got it.

[@eliseoros1874]

Thank you Ben , you make a very Hard job

[@ruudvanleeuwen7320]

Hi Ben, what an interesting video. What I don't understand, however, is what the purpose of adjusting the pressure on the stylus via the counterweight on my tonearm is in relation to your story. Can you still explain that?

[@BensAudioCave]

Tracking force is entirely different this is about resonance

[@ruudvanleeuwen7320]

@@BensAudioCave OK thanks. I will study further on it 😅

[@Yo.........]

Thanks a lot for the explanation!!

[@BensAudioCave]

You’re welcome

[@gluteus0maximus]

Ben - this video and your channel has been my reference to understanding turntable math. I have been in this hobby for 2 years now and I can safely say this tutorial has made me get much more out of my listening experience. I see you have not posted recently, and I hope you are well. It would be great to get more content from you. My question for you is - say you have a Hana SL with a 9.65Hz resonance but you are interested in the ML cart that has 8.58Hz resonance freq. Would you opt for the higher end cart and sacrifice ~1Hz of resonance, or go for the lower end, more accurate cart?

[@BensAudioCave]

Have you ever considered adding some mass? Generally speaking something like a soundsmith ez-screw set will add up to 3.15 grams of weight and will likely help! amzn.to/48VhCof

[@epg2501]

What REALLY made the most difference for me was upgrading my phono preamp to something high end (from a Mani to a Hagerman Trumpet MC). I was running an AT VM740ML but upgraded that to the AT 33PTG/ii. If I had both carts and was deciding, honestly I probably would have just stayed with the 740ML. I got offered a nice trade in/up so I just went with the 33:) More delicate and spaciousness but 740 was more rockin’:) Plus I also wanted to play around with the different capacitance and gain settings, etc. with the new pre initially.

[@felixfranzen7578]

Hi. I've done some thinking about this compliance stuff. And it seems the cartridge weight isn't the only factor at play here. How the weight is distributed should also be an important factor. For instance, the Ortofon Concorde integrated carts weigh around 18-18.5 grams. But when you balance a Concorde on the SL-1200 tonearm it's seems a lot lighter than it actually is and you can push the counterweight a little further forward than you can with (for instance) a Ortofon SH-4 headshell + OM cart, a combo which comes in at 14.5 grams. So, the total effective mass should be lower and consequently the resonance frequency should be higher if you use a cart where the bulk of the weight is closer to back/mounting section on the arm. This probably the reason a Concorde + a OM30 or 40 stylus works very well with an SL-1200 arm even-though the compliance for those needles should slightly too high for that arm. Also, kudos for setting the record straight on the SL-1200 arm effective mass thing. A lot of people seems to believe the eff. mass is 12 grams without the headshell.

[@BensAudioCave]

Thanks for the reply… keep in mind many of your thoughts are valid… I keep the weight as close to the bearing as possible and it does help… BUT cart mass is NOT the only variable… compliance is a measure of the integration of the cart suspension… I will tells you that you can take two different carts with the same compliance and other than the voicing; get similar tonal characteristics at the same resonance value… when you have a wide variety it’s easier to see…

[@felixfranzen7578]

​@@BensAudioCave Thanks! I'm just learning this stuff. Didn't even know that compliance was a factor until quite recently. It's seems even some manufacturers disregard the compliance factor. For instance some of the The Fluance turntables /the RT82 and up I think) are shipped with the Ortofon 2M Blue which have rather high compliance as you discussed in this video. But the Fluance tonearm have an effective mass of 28.2 gram or something like that. That should be a horrible mismatch. According to vinyl engine calculator any cart with a compliance above 10 cu should be unusable on the Fluance. How do you keep the weight as close as possible to the bearing btw? Some additional weights?

[@BensAudioCave]

@@felixfranzen7578 yes I got them from KABUSA… the have many aux weights and even a resonance cap… see here www.kabusa.com/m1200.htm#auxwt

[@felixfranzen7578]

​@@BensAudioCave Ah, thanks for the tip! I've been looking for a solution like that as the counterweight is pretty far back when using a cart like the Ortofon 2M or even my favoured Concordes (despite the weight being concentrated at the far back on those). Perhaps the headshell I use for my 2M is heavier than it should be. It looks like a standard Technics headshell and those are supposed to be really light (7.8 gram I believe). But it might be some kind of copy and if so the weight could be far higher.

[@BensAudioCave]

@@felixfranzen7578 I have a ton of different shells… lightest is a hitachi at 6g and the heaviest is an AT at 17g for lower compliance carts like denon DL-103’s and SPUs… the OEM technics is in fact 7.5g and the latest one with azimuth for the 1200g is 8.5… compliance wise; the 2M’s work best in the OEM shell (copies are 9-10g) and with the small 10g aux weight… the 2Ms weigh 7.2g… will put the main weight about at the bearing at 1.8g which is about where I run them…

[@mikemcguinness1304]

Ben, great video I chanced upon. I use a at 33 on a rega rb330 arm... What are you thoughts... I think mine sounds great

[@mikemcguinness1304]

BTW, I'm rubbish at maths...

[@BensAudioCave]

Compliance of 18 roughly and a mass of 6.9 grams and the RB330 is 11 grams so I come out to a resonance of 8.867Hz which should sound sublime!

[@richardmorgan1588]

This is the best I’ve seen this explained! Now I think my Ortofon 2M Blue with the matching Ortofon headshell was not the right fit for my Technics SL1200mk2. It’s a beast which requires an extra counter weight on the tone arm! There is virtually no anti skate for half the record playing surface and the VTA ring must be all the way down to be anywhere close to the right tracking angle. That’s with the very thick mat which comes with the deck! Don’t think this is what Technics would call an ideal setup! Now begins my journey into what is a good fit for that system! I’m open to any suggestions which would work best with the standard SL1200 tone arm.

[@BensAudioCave]

The AT33 PTGII is a great fit… but honestly the standard technics shell is only 7.5g and would treat your blue much better from both a VTA and Weight standpoint… I run a 10g LP gear ZuPreme shell on my PTG but also the heavy aux weight from KAB because the closer to the stalk weight works great I’ll drop a few links:

[@BensAudioCave]

OEM technics shell amzn.to/3i3Ln0I

[@BensAudioCave]

Highly recommended moving magnet amzn.to/3hZmh3d

[@BensAudioCave]

Best I’ve heard on a 1200 under $1000 amzn.to/3Q1C2mI

[@BensAudioCave]

Weights and so much more www.kabusa.com/m1200.htm#auxwt

[@jowblow2171]

wow!! eye opener. Thank you😮😳🙂

[@BensAudioCave]

Thanks sir! Just here to help people along their journey!

[@ocularcavity8412]

THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH for explaining this I have been banging my head on the wall trying to figure out why My 2M Black sounds WAY better on My SLQ2 than it does on my SL1200 MKII and my 2M Red sounds WAY better on the SL1200mkII than the SLQ2 and this may just be it!!! Even though I can't find the mass of the SLQ2 even though the two tonearms may look the same near the pivot bearings the SLQ2 has plastic and on the SL1200mkII it appears to be metal or something heavier duty than plastic making it heavier. Both carts have the Ortofon SH-4 Headshell (9.4g) and when I put in the number for the SL1200 and the 2M black I get 7.387 the re gets 7.748 both rather low but the Red is closer than the black and when you listen to them both it is Obvious the Red is the better pairing (also have a Dual brands Ortofon Om5e/10e that also sounds GREAT on the 1200) BUT when I use the 2M black on the SLQ2 it sounds like a door opens to a WHOLE NEW WORLD but put on the 2M Red and that door closes FAST, meaning the Resonance Frequency is probably too high with the 2M Red on the SLQ2. I have two more light weight pioneer headshells one that is around 8.5-9g and another that is 7-8g and I will test them with the 2M Red/Black and see what happens. I am also gonna try and find the mass for the SLQ2 tonearm but even Vinyl Engine doesn't have it, BTW do you know how to measure the tonearm mass?

[@daanswa]

Incredibly informative video Ben, thanks for the thorough tutorial! How would you select a cartridge when you don’t know it’s effective mass? I have a Kenwood KD-4100r/s-shaped arm and that info isn’t listed. I’ve seen guidance to assume it’s “medium mass” but even that implies a fairly wide range of potential masses to consider. Any practical suggestions to tackle this issue?

[@jedi-mic]

If you take the headshell off and the counterweight at the back the mass of the arm would be from the pivot, so just place it on some digital scales at its end tip that will give you the mass of the arm. Well I've just had a look and it says the effective mass of the arm is 24.7g

[@charlesludwig9173]

I have a 6.559 Hz resonance peak from my A-T OC9XML on an A-T L11H Headshell mounted to a Technics SL-1210GR Tonearm. This combination was not recommended by A-T yet so far the sound is very lifelike. In other words, no issue.

[@BensAudioCave]

You would likely be shocked at how much different it sounded on a lighter weight arm… IKHO the AT33PTG/2 is a much better fit… try a KAB fluid damper; it really helps btw… you may think it can’t get much better because it probably sounds good; but you might be surprised. Happy Listening! 😄

[@mertonnephake]

​@@BensAudioCave Yep, the KAB fluid damper is a great thing, it helps a lot even with warped records, one of the records that I have was unplayable due to a kind of short in length warping, but since I’ve had the fluid damping, it plays through. I also have an electro record where I suppose there is a lot of sub-bass and I’ve actually seen the tonearm resonating at the end of the song, though I haven’t heard anything wrong in the audio itself (actually the only record where I’ve noticed something like this in my entire collection) and even here the fluid damper helped quite a lot. Do you also have it, Ben? I haven’t noticed it on your SL1200. While I knew about all this stuff, I didn’t bother much about that and I felt that I would be below 8 Hz with my heavier cartridge A-T VM740ML (8 g) anyway. However, it seems I am i the green area in the end, 7.958 Hz (x2.0) ~ 8.507 Hz (x1.75) ~ 9.189 Hz (x1.5), especially if you say that the 100Hz value multiplied by 1.5 seems more realistic here. I’ve ordered a Nasotec swing headshell which is heavier (11.9 g) than my current Technics one and apparently it should still be fine if I consider the value 1.5× more realistic, 1.75× isn’t that bad either actually, 7.205 Hz (x2.0) ~ 7.702 Hz (x1.75) ~ 8.319 Hz (x1.5), and its construction shall help to minimize tonearm resonance even further according to reviews.

[@jedi-mic]

What about if your arm doesn't have a separate headshell what weight do you put into the calculator you need three different figures.?

[@From_the_mil]

Hello, what cartridge would you recommend for a good replacement or upgrade for a Technics P22 p-mount?

[@BensAudioCave]

The T4P are a bit harder... I would do an Ortofon OM10 with an OM30 stylus if you can afford it... Also the Grado with a G1+ stylus (rare as hen's teeth) is the ultimate IMHO... But the LP Gear AT carts with the vivid line stylus also sound really good... Just not many P-Mounts left out there these days :( Thanks for watching!

[@From_the_mil]

@@BensAudioCave a Gardo G1 is a T4P mount cart?

[@BensAudioCave]

@@From_the_mil no… the thought would be to get a Grado black pmount like this: www.lpgear.com/product/GRADBLKT4P.html And then change the stylus to something like this: lptunes.com/products/grado-stylus-for-grado-g1-phono-cartridge-for-u-s-sale-only-1 Giving you a Grado pmount with a shibata stylus which is about the best sounding pmount you’ll ever hear

[@louisgreen3915]

Hey Ben, how can I find out the weight of a headshell? (because I need to buy one before I work out the cartridge specs) My Rega 6 was bought without a headshell.

[@BensAudioCave]

I take it your Rega has the s arm? The specs are published on the manufacturers website… I can make some recommendations if you’d like

[@louisgreen3915]

@@BensAudioCave Ahhh man,,,could you? I really appreciate you taking the trouble, the whole "Tone-arm, Cartridge" thing was a complete mystery untill you came along. God bless you Ben, and keep doing what your doing, and lets put high end audio back at it's correct place on the top. High end audio should be for everyone who care's about music, (not just for people who could afford it).

[@BensAudioCave]

@@louisgreen3915 can you email the address on the channel with a couple of pics and cartridge you are going to use etc? Just want to make sure I recommend all the right parameters and might be easier to communicate

[@BensAudioCave]

@@louisgreen3915 assuming you are using the old Rega R200 S-Shape it was made by Acos and had an original 8g head shell and effective mass of around 16g with it... So the arm effective mass is 8g without shell... That said; depending on cart choice you have some options.

[@aussierob7177]

Using a Hadcock GH242 uni-pivot tonearm with effective mass of 11.4 grams and a Denon DL -110 moving coil cartridge of total weight 5.6 grams and dynamic compliance of 14 x 10 -6 cm/dyne results in a cartridge suspension resonant frequency of 10.31 HZ which should be satisfactory.

[@BensAudioCave]

A little weight up front would hurt anything… but hey if it works; right? Unipivot arms can behave a bit differently than their gimbaled counterparts… but hey if it sounds good to you then awesome! Those are pretty sweet arms

[@Geoff0711]

Brilliant - despite my dyslexia I got a degree of understanding - I followed with my AT33EV in mind but also considered my MP200 Nag as well and on my 1200 G with Jelco HS25 Headshell (12g) If I go with your At33PGT/ii I should be Ok - but also (now) considering the MP200 with maybe an MP500 stylus

[@BensAudioCave]

The 10g lp gear ZuPreme is a better fit… same shell 2g lighter… need a spacer on the techie with that shell… I use a 3D printed 3mm one… consider the heavy aux weight from KAB as well… counterweight closest to bearings helps a bunch I’ve found

[@Geoff0711]

@@BensAudioCave So the ZuPreme is the same thing - only 2 G lighter? Darn I donl;t know what to do now! I have the heavy counterweight on to balance the whole thing does that need to be added to the equation or is the other side of the bearing not part of it all>?? Also I am planning to keep two AT's (maybe) on identical headshells ready set up so I would have to buy another 2 instead of 1 unless I stick with another Jelco (I have an ECV and may buy the PTG/ii - unless I decide hang it all and play around the the Nagaoka MP200 (= 200 & 500 styluses) Rabbit frozen in the headlights right now.

[@BensAudioCave]

@@Geoff0711 the ZuPreme is identical to the HS 25 (I have the 12g one and 10g) but also offered in a lighter 10g… I just know having the weight as far in as possible seems to make it work better

[@Geoff0711]

@@BensAudioCave Just wish I had known about it a few months back when I got the Jelco - if I buy a PTG/ii I will want 2 identical Headshells for that and the EV - I will look it up - maybe I could mount the Nagaoka in the Jelco so they are all interchangeable but the 2 AT's a straight swap with small tracking weight change

[@Geoff0711]

I had to order another Jelco the ZuPreme was not available anywhere helpful - however - it occurse to me that the MG arm on these 1200G maybe a tad lighter than the arm on other SL1200's - so would that not go towards the difference we were trying to get by getting the ZuPreme over the Jelco?? Also - ordered the last PGT/2 off Amazon UK today so should have an EV on one and a PTG2 on the other headshell so I can switch as and when I feel like it...Hoping I am not far from the sweet zone on both - I cannot quite wrap my dyslexic brain around all the figures especially as the Compliance is at 100 hz as well as there is dynamic and static - its all too many numbers! 🤪

[@mreinsteintoptop]

Dear Ben, My oh my ..how do i start. Emoji head explosion says all. So i just shoot and hope for the best. Will you help me with an answer? I use the Denon dp 300f. Current cartridge Mp-110. Run time stylus is ending. So i bought Goldring G 1006. But how did I forget this subject... So big question, can this tonearm (cant find the weight/mass ,headshell ( pcl-310k) be combined with the Goldring 1006. I tried to register on VE. There not taking new registrations. The cartridges do not differ much in mass. Thnx in advance and great job

[@BensAudioCave]

So yes the 1006 will “work” on the denon but it’s the last upgrade I would have likely ever suggested… compliance wise it’s a bit high for your arm but would be meh ok… now that said; if you have an option to return it; I likely would as an AT VM95ML or even 540ML would be a better fit at much less coin… the DP-300f isn’t an awful table but it is an entry one… Honestly for the money it’s hard to beat the AT VM95ML and it will get you around $180 back in your pocket and treat the inner grooves better than the Nagoka or that particular Goldring… also make sure you are aligning 45mm from headshell attach point to stylus tip… here is the cart I would recommend amzn.to/3NT3cdn

[@mreinsteintoptop]

@@BensAudioCave thnx again yes. So does the AT VM95ML beats the current mp110 or should i have go with the VM540ML... :)

[@BensAudioCave]

@@mreinsteintoptop imho yes… because of the stylus… YMMV but it is the right cart on that table if you ask me

[@mreinsteintoptop]

@@BensAudioCave i took your advise. I returned the 1006 and got me the AT VM 95ML. Now i must place it the correct way. I know each hearing differs from one another. But its good to benefit from others experience. Thnx. Pardon my boldness, but alow me to add another question. Feel free to answer ;) I also own a Thorens TD 166. Completely overhauled. Momentarily i use a Goldring G 800 or 800E. (Are you some what familiar )What is your recommendation on stylus upgrade. Awaiting your response :)

[@elvisrafi]

Hi Ben how’s the compatibility of a original Technics headshell with the AT VM740ML on a Sl1200 mk2? Thanks

[@BensAudioCave]

Perfect

[@elvisrafi]

@@BensAudioCave thanks Ben. Could you take a look at my other question. Thanks you so much.

[@louissilvani1389]

I’m using a 1950s Fairchild moving coil cartridge heavy tracker on a TNT I’m afraid to touch anything.

[@BensAudioCave]

Older carts can be tricky to find info on… however MC carts will need to be at a minimum retipped from time to time… if I can help in any way just drop me a line at the listed email on the channel!

[@septiseptimiu8287]

I also tried to calculate using figures and calculators online but the real life results were wrong! In real life using a test record and testing cartridges is best method. The specs that cartridges producers supply are mostly wrong! For example the newer AT-VM95 cartridge is not medium compliance but high compliance and resonate at 7Hz on my AT-LP140 turntable which is medium mass arm. 😉

[@giovannibaietti2384]

I have a Thorens TD165: TP11 Tonearm = 16.5g ; TP60 Shell = 9.6g Mounting Hardware total mass = 1.1g Stanton 881S cartridge = 5.7g ; Dynamic Compliance = 30um/mN @ 10Hz (?, I have doubts) => Mass: (16.5+9.6)+(1.1+5.7) = 26.1 + 6.8 = 32.9g => F_resonance = 5.0659Hz ? or => Mass: (16.5+0[embedded shell])+(1.1+5.7) = 16.5 + 6.8 = 23.3g => F_resonance = 6.0197Hz ? The F_resonance is very low, but with Tracking Force of 1g (without brush) since 1986 I have never had any problems. Why does the F_resonance have to be in the 8÷11Hz range? What serious thing happens outside this range that doesn't happen inside this range? Thank you

[@BensAudioCave]

There is more to it than that… it’s like running too soft a suspension on a car… the resfreq is just a measure of that… the tp11 is a fairly heavy arm and needs a lower compliance (hence stiffer suspension) cart or else it can sound stuffed and not track warps very amongst other things

[@BensAudioCave]

Also the shell is included in the mass of the tp11 IIRC so the math may be a bit off

[@BensAudioCave]

The AT33PTG/2 is a decent match for your arm as but the VM540ML is even better and would really open up your sound… I loved the old Stanton moving irons but they need a much lighter arm to be at their best here is a link the 540ML amzn.to/4a6MkeQ

[@giovannibaietti2384]

@@BensAudioCave Originally, a Stanton 500, I think Stanton 500EE, was mounted on the TP11 with a D5100EE stylus (1.5g of tracking force, elliptical seen under the microscope, and golden rectangle). The Compliance seems to be 16um/mN, therefore about half of the 881S. F_resonance > 8Hz

[@giovannibaietti2384]

@@BensAudioCave Since the Stanton 881S is made in the USA, the data C = 30um/mN could be in static regime (0Hz). In fact, with C=30@10Hz a cartridge from the late 70s would require an ultra-light arm of 5g!!! which perhaps didn't even exist back then (in carbon fibre). More reasonable C= 30/2 = 15@10Hz. All that remains is to try with a test LP, and see if the resonance with the TP11 is at 6Hz (KO) or instead at 8.5Hz (OK) as I hypothesize.

[@marcelofernandolandi270]

saludos Ben, desde Argentina😃

[@backrack01]

Nobody in the world seems to know what the effective mass is for the technics 1200gr. Supplied head shell...is 7.6g. People have speculated the effective mass is 9 or 12g. Vinyl engine has no information. It's been beyond frustrating. My cart reads two compliance s. Dynamic and Static. It's also Japanese (Mp-200)

[@BensAudioCave]

According to the technics rep it’s 4.5g without the shell

[@backrack01]

@@BensAudioCave thank you. And for Japanese carts... I take the dynamic compliance which on the mp200 is 7.2x10-6 cm/dyne and times it by 2?

[@homerjones3291]

From my calculations, the Hanas are almost as bad on an SL-1200.

[@BensAudioCave]

Except for the ML... That has more weight to it... However, you can change the game by altering headshell mass :)

[@homerjones3291]

I personally prefer resfreq to vinylengine because it doesn’t round to a whole number and you can just the tonearm/headshell/cart masses all at once, and you can play with those numbers without going back and forth.

[@homerjones3291]

@@BensAudioCave Funny thing I found, which totally breaks the law of only changing one parameter when you’re trying to a compare - my Hana ML (boron cantilever and microline stylus installed by Soundsmith) on an Ortofon LH-4000 headshell sounds way better on my GR than the stock Hana on the LH-4000 on my mkii. The RF is around 7.48 for both tables calculation-wise, but I realize it is absolutely not an apples-to-apples comparison. Better table? Sure. Better cartridge now? Maybe. I have a Shure V15MR Type V on an original mkii headshell that I need to try out to see what that sounds like now.

[@BensAudioCave]

@@homerjones3291 definitely my preference as well for the same reasons

[@BensAudioCave]

@@homerjones3291 it really blows my mind how even small environmental discrepancies seem to make a difference sometimes

[@SpinalChamp]

Oh great, one more thing to worry about.

[@BensAudioCave]

Don’t worry! Enjoy the music! But hey if you are about to buy a new cart or stylus; consider doing some math… It could really elevate your results! 😀

[@SpinalChamp]

@@BensAudioCave Now that I know it's too late. Luckily my cartrige and turntable/tonearm are both Well Tempered Labs so it's all good but for the next upgrade it's another consideration

[@louisgreen3915]

Hey SpinalChamp, just for a short cut, (let alone the best kept secret) this is the only thing to worry about. Everything else is just sale pitches.

[@bochristensen1969]

sumiko amethyst

[@BensAudioCave]

????

[@williamdenton5716]

I only made it to 4 minutes in... sorry...

[@BensAudioCave]

It’s a video about math and science of sound… really no way to make it livkier