A Twist On The Creation Argument | Mike-VA | The Atheist Experience 933

[@oxidize11]

These are the best calls. Actually discussing instead of being dishonest.

[@etgaming6063]

Finally, an honest caller that admits when he doesn't know something!

[@raymondstheawesome]

@Transisms R immoral quick question: doesn't the country of north korea believe that the leader is literally a god? if that is the case, then i would argue that north korea is not an atheist country if they believe that their leader is literally a god

[@raymondstheawesome]

@Transisms R immoral nevermind i looked it up after i responded

[@markvonwisco7369]

100% It's refreshing to hear someone struggling and engaging in an honest conversation.

[@mildredmartinez8843]

I congratulate Mike for his honesty and his search for the truth. Great call.

[@codeyamos]

Mike is the reason this show exists. Because there are people who can be reasoned with, who will acknowledge the problems with their religion to the point of leaving it. I wish more people like Mike called in, just so that the people who host/star on this show could get a better idea of how much good they are doing.

[@baxtar1963]

The atheist experience has confirmed my disbelief and any gods I watched them for 15 years I've never seen them lose an argument.

[@paradoxeefinity4595]

Knowledge and wisdom is experienced not seen

[@kikolugo]

Without God, there wouldn’t be any atheists.

[@paradoxeefinity4595]

@@kikolugo I agree

[@Vortigon]

@@kikolugo No, without the claim of a god, there would not be any atheists.

[@loveableheathen7441]

I've been immersing myself in the debate about God for the past couple years and so far have have never encountered a theist talking point that stumped me for even a second. The truth becomes so clear when you allow yourself to be intellectually honest

[@whatsupinspace854]

Pascal's wager was solved by the philosopher Homer Simpson when he asked "but what if we're praying to the wrong God and he's getting madder and madder every time we do?" There's just as much evidence for that God as for one of the Christian gods, therefore there's just as much chance that not praying is a better route into heaven than praying incorrectly, and it is impossible to know how to pray correctly (which God is the right one)

[@Firedrake1313]

No pressure to get it right though, huh?

[@zach-rac]

@@Firedrake1313 .. No? Not for me - how would one _possibly_ be able to assess that? What if you thought you'd done all the research and you'd given it your absolute best guess but then you died and it turns out there WAS a god, but they actually wanted everyone to use their brain and logic to come to the conclusion that there was NO god, given the evidence they had provided, since that was the most HONEST answer? Or perhaps you even believed you'd had a revelation right from a god and then died and found out that you were delusional or, even more fancifully, the butt of some alien joke?

[@jamesm1580]

This is depressing. Too many people live in a society that would shun them for using their brains. It makes my blood boil.

[@survivalpreparedness3401]

We are in the same boat .

[@ryanspangler4569]

How do you come to that conclusion? Seems like you’re just making it up as you go along

[@raymondstheawesome]

@Deren Lernsten there doesn't need to be an atheist explanation. the fact that there is no theistic explanation is enough reason to reject theism. that is not enough by itself to accept antitheism, but definitely enough to reject theism

[@jamesm1580]

@Deren Lernsten 1.) I never claimed to have an explanation for how the universe began(if it began at all)...but that's irrelevant to me not believing in any god. 2.) Atheism isn't a cult as you are already aware. People have already explained to you how an atheist is just someone who doesn't believe in any god, so I have to assume that you are acting as if you don't understand that bc it conflicts with your personal beliefs and it would harm the apparent validity of those beliefs if you acknowledged that atheism is just the logical position any reasonable human being would have to take since no good evidence for a god has been presented in human history. 3.) Again, atheism doesn't claim to have any answers. In fact, atheism doesn't make any claims at all. But you knew that already. 4.) I never said you could "get answers from lies". But I reiterate, atheism makes no claims, so it isn't possible for atheism to "lie". You seem to have a very hard time accepting the fact that atheism doesn't claim to have the answers to the universe, so to speak. It's as if you can't find anything to dispute when it comes to atheism so you create a false concept of what it actually is and then attempt to argue against that. That's called a strawman fallacy. Maybe try doing some introspection and think about why you care so much that many people are intellectually honest and admit that they don't have the answers to everything. Try thinking about where all your anger and hatred towards atheism comes from...bc you have very clearly shown those qualities in your comments. I think you might become a happier person if you come to terms with the cause for all this internal angst you are displaying.

[@fredbohm4728]

@Deren Lernsten Dr. James Powers”, "Bouregard Hipple", “Jim Jones”, “Speirs Omnhurst”, “Deren Lernsten” It is the return of the Cowardly Clown Prince of Christianity. Still spouting your lies about how you defeat atheists in a debate, yet you have never debated atheism in your life. You make up your own definitions of words to suit your ignorance. All you do is bring up subjects you know nothing about which have absolutely nothing to do with atheism and then think you are winning an argument. You do not put forth the argument of atheists but rather what theists insist atheist arguments are like. You couldn't win a debate against a turnip.

[@joylewis546]

It takes time to get to self-acceptance as an atheist. I really appreciate how sensitive and honest Matt was in talking to Mike. Keep up with the process.

[@ingebygstad9667]

Now this was something new - and refreshing. Mike is an honest respectful guy who truly reflects. I loved this one :)

[@blatherskite3009]

Just from the way Mike (the caller) speaks - the way he listens and engages honestly, demonstrates humor and awareness - you can tell he already got his brain back :) Much as I derive pleasure from the batsh*t-crazy theist callers, this kind of call is the real practical point of the show, i.e. helping people find their way out of indoctrination and giving them the tools to avoid relapse.

[@Jerconjake]

Yeah you’re absolutely spot on with this one, the crazy ones have their place but this kind of caller is really what doing the work is all about

[@SubJStan]

I wish it were still like this because it seems they are going out of their way to pick the odd balls who often end up just being trolls

[@jayjonah83]

The fact that you can use "indoctrination" and "relapse" to accurately describe religion is astonishing to me

[@dudesayingthings]

Mike may honestly be the best caller this show has ever had. An honest guy who says I want to always keep searching. That's all you need to have a good life.

[@powbobs]

Brent from LA was excellent also.

[@paulvonblerk9365]

Respect Mike, a good healthy and logical mind at work.

[@phillipeldridge-smith1982]

As a lifelong atheist, I always find the most engaging conversations here are from the agnostics coming away from religious belief. Very honest. Very wholesome. Very good luck to this guy.

[@zach-rac]

I was in Mike's shoes a while ago - and he's right on a few things. I have indeed lost my blood-family to religion, and no longer speak with either of my parents nor my sister anymore. But they don't really love me, they love a version of me, so for me that made my choice easy. I'd rather die as my best self than live a lie (and also I'm not very good at lying lol).

[@WillPhil290]

Matt consistently demonstrates that, if you come correct and you're receptive and willing to listen... He can open up the conversation... If you come like a prick... You'll regret it... Lol

[@allahspreadshate6486]

It's the difference between "Do you want to a conversation? " and "Do you want to just tell me?".

[@simplicityistheultimatesop6571]

@@allahspreadshate6486 Krishna spreads hate.

[@MarioRossi-sh4uk]

Yeah but, other times he is imposing logic on people who don't follow logic. That makes no sense.

[@simplicityistheultimatesop6571]

@@justinfoulds7804 you’re quite right we have to persevere with these atheists and try to put some sense into their stubborn heads.

[@amandacogger3075]

@@simplicityistheultimatesop6571 lol

[@AntitheistHuman]

So refreshing to hear people like this, brings hope to humanity

[@floatinsun]

Logical arguments I like this ! Sensible caller who thinks and accepts different perspective of life

[@zekesalazar7643]

This was very well said and very wholesome at the end. Glad someone could benefit and be helped.

[@anrit5972]

I was a ten year old who came home from Sunday school and notified my parents that I would no longer be attending church as I do not believe in the whole concept. My parents said that it was my choice and they were proud that I had my own mind and would respect my beliefs. I have only attended church for weddings and funeral ever since and my parents still attend church 40 years later..

[@WillPhil290]

These are the conversations I live for ❤️

[@lawratify]

I rather have just one Matt as a friend and confidant than a hundred religious relatives and "friends".

[@00Skyfox]

This is one of the best callers I've ever heard on this show.

[@domiro8156]

Another example of the ordeal of trying to free oneself from religion..... As a non-religious person from most of my life, it makes me feel both revolted and terribly sad to see these poor individuals' pain and struggle .

[@MasterSpade]

“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves - that we've been (taken.)so credulous. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back. (So the old bamboozles tend to persist as the new bamboozles rise.)” - Carl Sagan

[@wwlib5390]

master spade; the real question might be - have you, as an atheist settled comfortably and given up being interested in finding out the truth? The Bible says to seek Him with all your heart while He may be found. That implies the day will come when all your seeking will be fruitless. John 3 16 can lead the diligent, humble and sincere seeker to God's truth. Have a good day.

[@MasterSpade]

@@wwlib5390 -- I was a Brainwashed christian for the first 35 years of my life. I DID believe in the 'god' of the blibleS. I believed in him, prayed to him, defended him, and did everything I could to connect/find him. I even stopped watching the Simpsons because they made fun of him in one episode! lol!! But, nothing happened. Nothing worked. It was a one way street. I wanted to get closer to our lord and savior, so I did something radical, something too few religious people do, I actually READ the bible. I read the whole bible. Best thing I ever did!! Why? It WOKE me up!! I read all the contradictions it had!! It's full of God's Hate, Jealousy, and Hypocrisy! The first time I read it, I pretended all those Contradictions and Evil parts weren't there. I made EXCUSE after EXCUSE like the brainwashed christian I was. While reading it, I prayed every day. I still expected to "find" and "Connect" with him, ESPECIALLY after reading the parts where HE says that anyone who searches for him WILL find him. Well, I was looking for him......believed in him, prayed to him, defended him.......and did NOT find him, and remember, at that point I was a Brainwashed christian who DID BELIEVE and WANTED it to be true. By the end of the book.......I was waking up. I was getting Tired of having to make Excuses. I had questions. There were just way too many Contradictions and Evil parts to ignore. So I said "If there is a god, I would think he would want us to ask all the tough questions. That would at the least weed out all the false gods." So I read the bible again, but that 2nd time with Zero Emotional attachment, and an Open Mind, not a Brainwashed one. BOY WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!! After that 2nd reading, I could no longer excuse all the Contradictions and Evil in there. I turned Agnostic. Then after more research, I became what I am now, an Atheist. All that means is I see no Real Evidence of any god. If only more people would actually READ their supposed "Holy" books instead of having those books read TO them. This quote was True in my case and for most - “Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.” - Isaac Asimov Do yourself a HUGE Favor, read the bibleS with an Open Mind. Ask all the tough questions and free yourself of the Shackles of religion.

[@wwlib5390]

@@MasterSpade what contradictions? I have read the Bible many times and recognize that the beginning and end also have a middle part - when you realize the whole point is to reveal God's only plan for salvation (first you have to see WHY we need saving to recognize YOUR need) then you can learn from the middle parts while you are becoming more and more like the character Jesus modeled - loving, forgiving, merciful, patient, kind, and just. Are you of the opinion that if we just shed God our society will be happy happy joy joy? The middle parts of the Bible show you that can never happen without God, our Creator and Redeemer. Thanks for sharing your opinion tho. Have a good day..

[@MasterSpade]

@@wwlib5390 -- You asked: " if we just shed God our society will be happy happy joy joy?" IMO, NOTHING has set Mankind back more than belief in gods. So if the Entire Human Population finally woke up to the Biggest Con Job of all Time, that being belief in 'god', then we as a Species would THRIVE!!!! IMO, when someone asks "what would we do without my god" is like someone asking "what would we do without Cancer!". Only Cancer hasn't been NEARLY as Destructive as the con of 'god'. As for Contradictions in the bibleS...first let me ask you, is the bibleS( I put an "S" at the end because when I researched it, I found out that there is no "THE" bible, there are currently 60 different versions just in English!) the Perfect word of god? Are the bibleS the law of the lord? Just remember, something is either Perfect, or it isn't, there is no "In-between".

[@wwlib5390]

@@MasterSpade Thanks for taking the time to answer. Have a great day

[@Jerconjake]

Great, great call. You know Matt knows exactly what this caller is talking about. And what they had to say about being out as an atheist is so important

[@thekububeach]

I guess It's because Matt has been there before

[@MrKdcfc]

This is one of the best episodes I have seen. Good luck to Mike, its so sad how scared he is to be honest with his own family and friends. Also Matt and Jen's explanations and analysis were brilliantly put across

[@francoisona]

This dude is a breath of fresh air. Love his voice too.

[@user-ef4ky2uf7g]

Kudos to caller Mike. Imagine the hard times he must have had given his background. But he still investigated and tried. He sounds like a smart guy from listening to him.

[@hankkingsley9183]

This caller is a rare breed...one who listens

[@johnf536]

This is probably my favorite call.

[@milkenobi]

This call makes me realise how privileged I am to live in Australia. Deconstructing and leaving religion resulted in respect and even relief from my family and friends.

[@leglessinoz]

Hey from Brisbane.

[@amandacogger3075]

And now I'm jealous, love Australia and the Aussie sense of humour.

[@milkenobi]

@@leglessinoz 👋 I used to live on the Sunshine Coast in my 20s … spent a lot of time in Brisbane

[@lilithpowers9686]

I appreciate the honesty of this caller.

[@DaviesMartinezBeats]

An open-minded caller = a good two-way conversation...

[@roysmallian2889]

I cannot understand how a family can insist that a person's belief is conditional for their love and support.

[@theanti-anti-intellectual5026]

It's a trait they learned from their evil deity. If you don't suck up, you're banished.

[@T_J_]

@@theanti-anti-intellectual5026 Meaning they learnt it from other human beings, right?

[@theanti-anti-intellectual5026]

@@T_J_ Yep, humans from ancient history that basically didn't know jack squat about the world around them. Humans created gods in an attempt to explain why the world is the way it is. Then somewhere along the line, religions also became a grift for profit besides a way to threaten people to do what their leaders (kings etc.) say to do based on them claiming that their god(s) gave them the authority to lead them. Religion is nothing more than a tool to influence people's behavior at this point.

[@TheRealFumigator]

It's just how we're wired-- very tribal. "This is my circle of trusted people" and when someone "violates" that trust by adopting some other god system (or simply dropping a god system), it can be hard to accept. If you think about it, our modern social structure where the tribe is no longer one's entire world (food, shelter, safety) is barely in its infancy-- I'd say we're only about 400 years out from strong tribal structure. As we globalize via technology we're getting better at overcoming these instincts that have defined us for tens of thousands of years, but it's a relatively slow and gradual process to alter such instincts.

[@WunHungLo99]

This guy is the embodiment of why Pascal's Wager is flawed because religion does harm and this guy's struggling journey through skeptical thinking is evidence that religion does harm, his indoctrination has harmed him.

[@mattihn]

NIce call. Sounds like a clever guy that will find his way eventually.

[@lasal134]

A REASONABLE caller!!?? Wow.

[@mildredmartinez8843]

Great comments from Matt and his cohost.

[@williamtarry4405]

Without empirical evidence supporting the existence of a god, belief in a god is not warranted. I've asked every theist with whom I've interacted for their evidence supporting the existence of a god, and the only thing they've offered is more opinions and plenty of unfounded claims.

[@barbararipani1331]

Love this caller.

[@Filmbuf-g2k]

I totally get this young man's call...I'm 53 and although I've never taken to any religion as an adult (why is there so many if only 1 God who should set the rules ) and my brain tells me it's all man made over centuries, and I call myself an Atheist ,I still can't 100% let the thoughts that there may be a god go ...I guess its because of having being born into the Christian religion and all the stories being told to my little brain as a very small child...while my mind was developing...I'm 99% there

[@DMgHalt]

this guy clearly brought his A game and was willing to be honest in conversation, good listen.

[@SunofYork]

I resigned from the Primitive Methodists in 1958 and I have lived a life of immense good fortune before and after then..... I never met an evil atheist but I have met cruel self-described christians. eg My mother said she was an absolutely loyal 100% christian. My daughter became "Pregnant while engaged to be married", and my mother said to her.."In my time, girls like you would be kept in a dark cellar away from the sight of decent christian people"... Luckily my daughter did not miscarry as a result of that emotional abuse. I rest my case.

[@headfangs]

the hosts are right in that Pascal's Wager only works if you've picked the right religion. With the thousands, if not millions of religious beliefs that have come and gone in our human history, what are the odds of that?

[@milkenobi]

Mike’s part about it taking years for him to begin to let go of his faith is really important. It can take years of logical arguments to break indoctrination. Don’t be discouraged when a theist rejects your logic, you may have put a small dent in their indoctrination.

[@Enkidu-4U]

I've heard this argument before but it had to do with evolution. The Christian said "what if God created evolution?" They had this look on their face, like boom, I got you. I just chuckled a bit and said "No. All you did was commit a common fallacy." We call that, moving the goal post. For centuries the church has denied evolution, denied science, denied planets orbit the sun. Now that we know all these things to be undeniably true. Instead of admitting you were wrong. You simply moved the goal post. You have decided to continue to believe regardless of evidence. That makes it a choice.

[@somabhattacharya4362]

Good caller with an open mind to logic, rather than having a predetermined mindset, due to either indoctrination or being brain washed by patents

[@Mangos37]

Matt is too much an evolved beast of rationality. Beast

[@jonjosenna5581]

That was good honest call. Honesty and self-understanding makes for a better call.

[@euripidiesupman9755]

Excellent call.

[@aliyahholloway422]

What a great call and an honest guy

[@WunHungLo99]

This must feature as a top 10 AE call and very much a fulfillment of its mission statement.

[@abolfazlnazemi529]

I thought about coming out as an atheist but can't because I live in Iran. The law against blasphemy complements laws against criticizing the Islamic regime, insulting Islam, and publishing materials that deviate from Islamic standards. The regime uses these laws to persecute dissidents or atheists and journalists. These individuals are subject to surveillance by the “Basij” or “Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps” harassment, prolonged detention, mistreatment, torture and execution.

[@Sir-Complains-a-Lot]

I enjoyed this conversation immensly! what a kind, honest and smart caller! He even listened!!

[@ccampbell02yt]

One of the best calls. Should be stickied or whatever KZbin does.

[@shookreeseeree4]

A very good n honest caller .. should make a good host for this Atheist Experience.. when he eventually leaves the religion..

[@Cyberglyph]

I have to say Matt you really helped this guy, he was honestly not sure and you directed him in a good way as always. He was for sure somebody seeking answers and trying to get to nitty gritty.

[@anttihenttonen2814]

A good conversation, indeed. What often bugs me with The Atheist Experience videos is that audio and video are not synced very well. Can be listened to, not watched...

[@ajaynaira4559]

Yeah some videos are like that. I thought it was the youtube application bugging out

[@thepaperstaggering]

This was constructive.

[@1eftnut]

Mike, you’re far too earnest a person for religion. It speaks volumes when you’re terrified of revealing you true self to your religious family because of how atrociously they’ll behave.

[@mdug7224]

A proper caller🌟

[@dilldathrill9010]

Who would have thought it , the first time I’ve seen a caller listen, wait and actually listen to Matt without interrupting him. The guys turns out to not really actually believe in god. No need for a mute when people actually want to engage and not start preaching when they get uncomfortable.

[@faketrump3605]

the honest life argument is compelling for not worshipping a specific god without sufficient evidence.

[@BexxBott]

Caller is on his way out. Welcome brother we have jackets!

[@freddan6fly]

We also have brains.

[@ajclements4627]

@Deren Lernsten Getting really pathetic with your trolling lately NEP, everything ok at home?

[@skateboardingjesus4006]

@Deren Lernsten Uh oh, the theist NPC is back, flailing with his signature stupidity and desperation. Run along child, your shite arguments have run their idiotic course.

[@brynpookc1127]

Also, there’s the secret handshake!

[@fredbohm4728]

@Deren Lernsten “Dr. James Powers”, "Bouregard Hipple", “Jim Jones”, “Speirs Omnhurst”, “Deren Lernsten” It is the return of the Cowardly Clown Prince of Christianity. Still spouting your lies about how you defeat atheists in a debate, yet you have never debated atheism in your life. You make up your own definitions of words to suit your ignorance. All you do is bring up subjects you know nothing about which have absolutely nothing to do with atheism and then think you are winning an argument. You do not put forth the argument of atheists but rather what theists insist atheist arguments are like. You couldn't win a debate against a turnip.

[@kevinlogue5652]

bet mike’s doing amazing rn - good for him if that’s indeed the case

[@andreistanciu4359]

On top of that, Pascal's wager assumes that "Believing" is the criteria by which you get selected or not to go to heaven on hell. What if believing isn't a requirement?

[@ummmno3871]

Even as a child I couldn’t believe that nonsense if my life depended on it. Guess gawd make me wrong. Oh well

[@michellebrown4903]

Welcome to the light Mike .

[@michellebrown4903]

Haha... you are in the cult .... l can categorically inform you ,that l have never met another atheist, or group of Atheists, to discuss " Atheism ".

[@ajclements4627]

@Deren Lernsten You must have zero self awareness to understand how ignorant you look day after day spewing the same tired copy paste over and over.

[@fredbohm4728]

@Deren Lernsten “Dr. James Powers”, "Bouregard Hipple", “Jim Jones”, “Speirs Omnhurst”, “Deren Lernsten” It is the return of the Cowardly Clown Prince of Christianity. Still spouting your lies about how you defeat atheists in a debate, yet you have never debated atheism in your life. You make up your own definitions of words to suit your ignorance. All you do is bring up subjects you know nothing about which have absolutely nothing to do with atheism and then think you are winning an argument. You do not put forth the argument of atheists but rather what theists insist atheist arguments are like. You couldn't win a debate against a turnip.

[@davidzeledon61]

Why does always someone ask? Can you hear me? What makes you think they can't hear you?? 99% of the time they do. God it drives me crazy!!!

[@iveseen1]

If you're not accepted by people because you're an atheist, are they worthy of acceptance. What business is it of others what you believe?

[@radleye1]

One of the best calls ever.

[@Smileynb]

If you're going to claim that your god created the universe and made it look older than it actually is, the next question must be "When?". If you can claim that god added a bunch of dodgy evidence to trick us, how can we be sure that he didn't create everything yesterday, but implanted all our memories to make us think that the day before yesterday happened?

[@pgsmith22]

It is so amazing / tragic that a 'loving' family could dissolve over such a trivial matter as a 'god'. Such are the frailties of faith in some.

[@EricWBurton]

Mike was experiencing what most of us have experienced. This call was 9 years ago - I hope he is doing well.

[@StarFinderWebb]

Hey can we get better audio on the host please. The caller was loud and clear. Almost felt next to me. But it's hard to hear the host in many of the videos. And some of them I need to skip. Live the show! And the people behind the scenes!!! Keep up the good work 👏

[@oldmanh4540]

I feel sorry for this young man, he sounds like he’s quite intelligent

[@coffeetalk924]

It still sounds so weird to hear people like us atheist say, "I didn't come out" until such and such a time. It almost sounds like we're guilty of something.

[@Glasschin2.0]

It’s the domestic abuser modern religion used.

[@robertjudd3996]

As a religious believer you actually need to be in the right side of that religion, Ireland still kill each other despite both side being Christians, Muslim killing other Muslims because they are not the right Muslims. Atheism is not suggesting killing anyone.

[@mexhapati]

Why do we have to tell anybody anything? Either they can handle it or they can't...I mean ...if they cannot then you might consider NOT TELLING THEM. you'll be doing the merciful deed.

[@anrose8335]

Great video! For myself I especially like what Matt has to say at around 20:35, that we have another portion of our brain that operates independent of our logical brain, which is why atheists can have nightmares of "hell" years after deconversion.

[@fpcoleman57]

This is one of the best calls you guys have extracted from the thousands of videos that have been broadcast from The Atheist Experience. I think Mike is already an atheist but he isn't ready to come out. I live in the UK. Except for some Muslims and Jehovah's Witnesses -- coming out in the UK is not an issue. (I understand that I may be ignorant regarding other religions, denominations and sects.) Coming out from mainstream Christianity in the UK is relatively easy. If your whole life is centred around the local church and your whole family are believers then coming out is a massive issue. Sounds absolutely awful to me! The only analogy I can think of is that it would be like cutting off an arm.

[@Angel-Kitten]

Perhaps the "right" god does not want man to be honest and kind. It is as possible as other assumptions. Maybe he wants you to fool, rob, deceive, and ki*ll. Because he likes action brutal thrillers or by any other reason.

[@dickvarga6908]

if i followed the bible i would likely be in prison: abduction, rape, murder, genocide, slavery, assault.

[@AC-zx4hd]

Interesting. Then God would have to create buried fossils for prehistoric creatures that never existed?

[@freddan6fly]

The mental gymnastics of believers is astonishing.

[@guildwarrior3232]

No, no. No. Fossils in the ground are the work of the Devil, so as to mislead you into believing the erph is zillions years ol- Wait...

[@raymondstheawesome]

@Deren Lernsten sounds just as plausible to be honest

[@fredbohm4728]

@Deren Lernsten “Dr. James Powers”, "Bouregard Hipple", “Jim Jones”, “Speirs Omnhurst”, “Deren Lernsten” It is the return of the Cowardly Clown Prince of Christianity. Still spouting your lies about how you defeat atheists in a debate, yet you have never debated atheism in your life. You make up your own definitions of words to suit your ignorance. All you do is bring up subjects you know nothing about which have absolutely nothing to do with atheism and then think you are winning an argument. You do not put forth the argument of atheists but rather what theists insist atheist arguments are like. You couldn't win a debate against a turnip.

[@brucebaker810]

Oh, He made them exist. Long enough to provide their bones. Create live, allow a "whole life"...then pith them and stick them on the board? Create live. instakill, bury? Create as bones or fossils? Fitting gods into a fact-focused world is Hard.

[@MarioRossi-sh4uk]

4:20 "If you make a truth statement, then the burden of proof is on you". If I say that tomorrow the sun is going to rise, I don't have to provide much of a proof, otherwise than "it always did so". I have to provide a proof when the claim I make is exceptional. The more exceptional it is, the stronger the proof I should provide.

[@michellebrown4903]

It's very sad . Theists have created prisons for themselves.

[@veronicats100]

This whole show merely boils down to the fact that magic does not work. Foundations of physical laws work. These are the kinds of questions you get from the mind that has no Science background.

[@TheNumbaOneMiss]

If you choose to believe in god because of the risk of being wrong you lose anyway because this god rewards blind faith not precaution.

[@ronwhitehouse23]

This caller is so genuine I feel so sorry for him not being able to live a honest life, This is what RELIGIOUS INDOCTRINATION does to people. That is cruel, and yes god permits it apparently.

[@bobs182]

Pascal's wager makes me think Christianity is a fraud. If Christianity is valid and stands to reason, what is the need of threatening people with punishment after you're dead. Why does a loving god need to operate like a mafia boss? Why is God's ego so delicate that he can't handle disbelief? The whole thing seems like something control freaks would make up to control you.

[@donaldgoodnight7853]

This call is so like many Christians I have talked to. Nice conclusions Mike. Religious people are exhausting. None of seem coherent. Even with those that have degrees. Well so called degrees. My niece has a degree from a Christian college? But she is quite stupid. Fun call here.

[@j.dragon651]

The creation, in lieu of a better word, IS the creation. It has always been and will always be. It will create anything it possibly can, naturally. It doesn't need a god, there is nothing supernatural about it.

[@Herzeleydt_Diesentrueb]

One might call this a winwinwin end...

[@ohnoitsthatguy09]

I feel similar. grew up in a very mormon family. I'm at around 80/20. 20 percent of me is having a difficult time letting go, even though i believe i did let go of the idea of god about 25 years ago, the emotions that are attached to it are real. its fucked up.

[@ajclements4627]

The journey from believer to non believer takes time, you’ll get there and be happier for it.

[@wylie5525]

I had it a little easier than you since I have been out of Mormonism for almost 50 years. I stayed away from any religion for decades, and then realized how much the church had changed many of its beliefs. What came out during the Romney run for President was that what we were taught at the local level (seminary and at church) was not based on church tenents. My sister is hung up on an apologetic version of Mormonism, excusing every thing and making stuff up when nothing else fits; but I just avoid talking religion with her and consider her disappointed with her life and church is all she has left, and her family is screwed up even though they grew up with the church.

[@khulgarulfsson8067]

I don’t think the middle ground is fictitious. I think it’s definitely possible to have doubts and shift back and forth in different situations or from day to day. If you think the probability of there being a god or gods is remotely close to being a coin flip, I’d say you’re an agnostic. An atheist is either convinced there are no gods or unconvinced that there are any, not sort of unconvinced. A theist is either convinced there’s a god or at least finds it significantly more plausible/persuasive/appealing than not.

[@aemiliadelroba4022]

This is stupid , So theists now saying that God made a the Earth in 6 days according to Bible but made it look old like millions yrs old, to just play with us , and trick us ! Really! ? Maybe This God doesn’t have anything better to do, just playing around .!😂😂😂

[@t800fantasm2]

@Deren Lernsten "G0D SUDDENLY created Adam an adult" Did he create Adam with a penis, testicles and a belly button?

[@MrShigura]

@@t800fantasm2 Just a reminder for the sake of comedy, “Daren” claims to be a retired doctor millionaire. 😂

[@amtlpaul]

@Deren Lernsten "There is no objective tool that can measure age"- Whatever gave you that idea?

[@t800fantasm2]

@@MrShigura Yes, he's been on about that for a while... Last year he was 58, 59 and 61 too... He must age fast... lol He's claimed to have been "researching" and debunking atheism since he was 8... Probably at 8 he was still wetting the bed... Well, in truth he probably still does... seems to be too delusional to not be...

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

@Deren Lernsten "There is no objective tool that can measure age " Just another *pathetic LIE* from our resident pathetic liar..

[@StarrDust0]

Good convo, this guy clearly wants to be an atheist but might be in a christian community that he fears...so he goes along to get along. But as Matt pointed out, he might lose friends but at least it's not like what they do to people in muslim countries.

[@evidencebased1]

I hope Mike took the red pill.

[@andreasplosky8516]

If christians say that god made the earth look like it is old, than they have already admitted the defeat of their theology.

[@t800fantasm2]

@Deren Lernsten "G0D SUDDENLY created Adam an adult - not a baby. " So how did Adam know how to walk? talk? not pee and poop in public? how to eat?

[@amtlpaul]

@@t800fantasm2 Ah well you see, God created him with that knowledge. It was only after the Fall that we had to start learning these things and... 😂

[@amtlpaul]

@Transisms R immoral If trolls like yourself are purporting to represent Christianity, it is in serious trouble

[@andreasplosky8516]

@Deren Lernsten "Is it so hard for G0D to also create the universe in one moment to resemble an advanced age?" I do not think you get the fundamental problems I am alluding to. I will try to explain: First: If a christian devices a god that cheats and deceives in such a way, he also creates a god who's actions and motivations can not be trusted, which shakes the fundamentals of his theology. Second: What's more, this christian has accepted the fact that science is right and that he is forced to tweak and reshape his fantasy god-friend to accommodate science. This christian has accepted the subservience of his god to human science and will therefore in the future have to remake his god many more times as science progresses. This simply is an admittance of theological failure and collapse, because the christian then implicitly admits that his god is his creation, and not the other way around.

[@fredbohm4728]

@Deren Lernsten “Dr. James Powers”, "Bouregard Hipple", “Jim Jones”, “Speirs Omnhurst”, “Deren Lernsten” It is the return of the Cowardly Clown Prince of Christianity. Still spouting your lies about how you defeat atheists in a debate, yet you have never debated atheism in your life. You make up your own definitions of words to suit your ignorance. All you do is bring up subjects you know nothing about which have absolutely nothing to do with atheism and then think you are winning an argument. You do not put forth the argument of atheists but rather what theists insist atheist arguments are like. You couldn't win a debate against a turnip.

[@garyskinner2422]

If I were him I'd want to truly know do my family love me more than thier religious beliefs, no way on earth will I pretend to be something I'm not, I do fully understand his trepidation but damn it no way I could live a lie, I'd just say my beliefs have changed but in no way does this change how I feel about my family one iota and then it's up to my family to decide what's more important to them.

[@mrdgenerate]

God created stuff with age so more people wouldnt believe and thered be more room in heaven.