A Viable Subsonic Load? Sub-X 7.62x39mm, Hornady

[@trev1388]

Results from the field: 16-inch ruger ranch with these suppressed at 65 yards yielded a delayed kill, and the round stopped in the scapula of the opposite shoulder of a 120lb doe. Very FMJish results. Compared to The Maker 190s i loaded back into the same brass with trail boss. They were more of what we want to see. I had great expansion.

[@BuffRANGE]

Thank you for that data!

[@beenschmokin]

Lehigh and Buffalo bore, which use Barnes bullets, are the king of expansion. Copper is king.

[@DZ4295DBW]

​@@beenschmokinagreed

[@juanthelawnmowerthief1641]

Thanks for putting this out Sir! The Hornady Sub X in 7.62x39 and 300 blk don’t really expand beyond what you saw here in this test. For the prices these Hornady Sub X go for you can buy expanding solid copper subs.

[@BuffRANGE]

Right on

[@lurebenson7722]

@@BuffRANGE I understand what this test is about, but I wanted to let shooters of the 7.6x39 know of loads I am making that do very well on the Black tail deer we have. So, I load the Barns TSX 150 grain or the PPU 150 grain boat tail 311" bullets with 25 grains of W 748 powder for the 7.62x39 as a good short range deer load and self-defense load. The PPU 150 grain 311 bullets I buy from Graf & Sons 100 for $19.00 These PPU 150 grain 311" work very well at the slow speed to open up and cause pretty good organ damage on deer. Bullets of 310 and 311 really make no difference going down the 7.62x39 bore and with inconsistency of foreign made 7.62x39 from 310 to 311 dimeter so what it works these are hunting loads not match grade ammo.

[@BuffRANGE]

@@lurebenson7722 good data!

[@cheryltysver4819]

Matt... Excellent video as always! I've pretty much always gone with faster than standard twist rates when the barreling a rifle unless it is specifically designed for speed or reloading is for some reason not an option. Over stabilization has not been a problem and more often than not it provides benefits in circumstances where conditions would likely entail non- stable flight or penetration path deviations. As an example...a 1:10 twist .50 Alaskan with 525 gr. S-Solid penetrated the first 4 x 6" pressure treated pine and caught the edge of the 2nd one and penetrated the full 4" of that 4" x 6" before completely penetrating a 3rd 4" x 6" and exiting. The half-moon channel carved out by the bullet in the 2nd block showed no signs of veering which I found to be amazing...

[@beenschmokin]

Hornady living off their name rather than true performance. Good video sir.

[@Swampytheroot]

Thanks for the info. I'll be avoiding this load for my x39s

[@Deathlily76]

I'd reccomend trying the 762 bullets made from Maker Bullets. They have a good reputation for expanding subsonic projectiles.

[@nomad155]

They need to be a full cartridge made brand for the average consumer.

[@saltymofo5870]

Had very similar results. Ruger gen 2, 9.5” twist some yaw at 5 yds, and a little more than you at 100. Fairly accurate for marginal stability about 2 moa. Would not cycle 2 different ar rifles(10.5” and 16”) suppressed or not, with even more instability from the 10 twist. Also no expansion out of any thing tested. More importantly to me was only about 20%was subsonic at 3100’ 60 degrees f.

[@nikos6220]

This test is the final straw. Hornady needs to redesign that .30 cal sub-x.

[@randomguy1371]

They've never made a good subx tbh. Idk why they don't just design a bullet like a 9mm hollow point and put a heavier lead slug behind it inside the jacket. Maybe stability issues but at least offer it for us

[@charlesvaughan7148]

From my Ruger Ranch the drop was severe at 50 yards compared to the standard steel case ammo. I will not purchase any more of this ammo. Great video. Love the 7.62x39 and 300 Blk vids.

[@playerunnamed2491]

I disassembled 5 cartridges, the weight of the gunpowder in one is 13.1 grains (average, there was one cartridge of 13.2 grains), it is also interesting that it is behind a small primer (finally).

[@CountryboyBOB]

Used a BCA AR 16 inch with Dead Air Sandman S cycled fine.

[@brando104]

I've been waiting for this. This is exciting. Still would like to see the underwood 7.62x39 tested

[@nomad155]

If you check the AK files, there's good rep on them.

[@H_Hold]

So ive gathered; Reload your own and test to find something reliable

[@StreetLight099]

Have you ever tested the Barnes 85gr 5.56 round? I believe it is the heaviest commercially available 5.56/223 ammo. From what I’ve seen there is only one other test of this product on YT

[@christopherwisby8926]

I finished a trash buck off with one of these at 50-60yds. I was impressed with the expansion. Didn’t go all the way through.

[@BuffRANGE]

did you happen to recover the projectile? The penetration and lack of expansion from the gel clearly doesn't translate to actual tissue expansion and penetration based on your results, unless it hit bone?

[@lorenzotelleria1858]

You've got to try them in a bolt action (like you said, the Ruger American Ranch for example!

[@EvilWiffles]

I been telling people this for awhile. Don't waste your money on Sub-X. You are relying heavily on expansion for subsonic and you just aren't getting any of that with Sub-X. Mostly shoot .300blk but Maker bullets have been really great for expansion, I think the faster twist might help keep the petals open a little longer. 1:3 twist with 8.6blk is probably why those Makers look as gnarly as it does in gel.

[@BuffRANGE]

When I gel tested them I was very disappointed in the results and likely why the project got buried in my folder. I'd love to see a subsonic copper expander in 7.62x39 and I would imagine Maker's or the likes could do it. Indeed the 1:3 is helping the 8.6 blk sub expanders work nicely!

[@briankeithwood]

look at maker bullets. I know they have 300 blkout, might have AK as well.

[@sethperry1323]

I have a bunch of brass an I was going to get the bullets an reload some up... but I didn't realize my 7.62x39 brass was LRP!! Sob

[@lurebenson7722]

If you ever need 7.62x39 brass it is Fancy brass that sells once fired brass and I bought 1000 mixed brands once fired 7.62x39 brass for 100 dollars with shipping. If you need a good deer load, I use the PPU 150 grain boat tail soft point 311" from Graf & Sons with 25 grains of W 748 powder and this is an AR 15 with 16-inch barrel 7.62x39

[@triggerbarPhD]

I need this in my life.

[@lurebenson7722]

Just putting this out there for anyone looking for the AR 15 for home defense and concerns for over penetration. KAK Industries I bought a 16 inch AR 15 barrel in 30 Luger that is absolute wonderful to shoot and been shooting Racoons with it. Ammo and brass and bullets for the 30 Luger are all over the internet and from Graf & sons. The bullets are from PPU and so is the brass and Star line also makes 30 luger brass. Bullet weights are 85 and 80 grain from PPU and Hornaday. The 30 Luger is tested by Wars military's have used it

[@playerunnamed2491]

Greetings. The weight of powder is 12.6 grains for one cartridge, or is it the average for several?

[@williamgaines9784]

Your 100 yard group is not so bad using a red dot...not sure if it is 2moa dot or larger. I might try some if they were not too expen$ive. The Sub-X in my 350 Legend group well, but I have not tried them on game...Summer and what not😓 Fall is approaching and some deer or hog will be the true testbed.🤠

[@officedullard8722]

What's that rail mount you have on that one AK?

[@dbmail545]

F*ing sweet! I have wanted you to test this stuff for a minute but am too cheap to send you enough for a proper test❤These are great in my bolt guns but won't run my AK or PTR. I see you are wearing your Nomex gloves. The over penetration is no problem. Alls I cares about is if F&G classifies it as a "hunting" bullet.

[@KettlebellGunsmith]

I wonder how these do through windshields and car doors...

[@sentinel208]

Been waiting for a good test of this ammunition, thanks. I was hoping this ammunition would have performed as Hornady has advertised, most disappointing. Hopefully they will develop a sub sonic 7.62X39 round that will perform well, until then I think I'll pass.

[@nomad155]

Guys on the Files and Ak sub have talked about how this stuff was very Lackluster coming from such a reputable brand. Double tap or Underwood should try making a sub x39 load

[@MrYogitron92]

Maybe a lighter recoil spring on the AK would help.

[@almaadams3631]

Wait a minute. I have seen these for $28-$30 a box.

[@bigtrev761]

🇦🇺😎👍That’s incredible

[@BuffRANGE]

Thanks for stopping by!

[@robertopiccinno8870]

If a cal.30 bullet with 240grs. needs minimum a 1:7“ twist, then a 255grs should need minimum the same twist rate or even less. Are AKs with such twist rates out there?

[@BuffRANGE]

Not conventionally. Most are 1:9

[@robertopiccinno8870]

This means that out of standard AK barrels this 255grs projectiles will keyhole and baffle strike?

[@gagemason3865]

I’ve tried hunting with these before and I was disappointed by the lack of damage they do, even on raccoons. Little to no expansion. Wound looks similar to a mediocre 9mm hollow point. Expanding copper subsonic bullets are the only subsonic bullet design that is ethical to hunt with or use for defensive purposes in my opinion.

[@landmine940]

Good Lord 😮

[@almaadams3631]

Uh, no adjustable gas on that BRN 180?

[@BuffRANGE]

There's 2 settings.

[@almaadams3631]

@@BuffRANGE Thanks Buff ( couldn't readily find the specs)

[@panthermark]

Looks like the same crappy expansion as 300blk. Back to the drawing board Hornady.

[@briancunningham5011]

These rounds are extremely over priced for what you get.. in my area 20rd 35/40$

[@SiliconeSword]

That's totally insane lol, these would be good for smoking a scuba diver

[@A3_Dynamics]

🦍

[@bigtrev761]

🇦🇺😎👍Hey Matt

[@BuffRANGE]

Hello!

[@DinoNucci]

PizzA

[@IsaiahChapter53isAboutJesus]

Hi Buffman, Love the channel. Just found you. Quick question, Im deciding between RMA 3+ RF2 @ 5.6 LBS for $280 per plate, however La Police Gear's 1155 is level 4, half the price, and claims its the same weight as the RMA plate. Is there any issue choosing the LA P.G's ate in your opinion? BTW, do cheaper cermic plates spall differently than more expensive ceramic plates. Meaning, is there any spalling concern with cheaper cermic plates?

[@BuffRANGE]

lAPg sells 1155? Or do you mean just their level Iv offering ?

[@IsaiahChapter53isAboutJesus]

@BuffRANGE Pardon me. Yes, their level 4 offering. I was thinking an 1155 is just a universal nomenclature for a entry level 4 plate.

[@BuffRANGE]

@@IsaiahChapter53isAboutJesus No worries. The cheaper imported plates tend to skimp on things, and generally it's adhesion of the backer to the strikeface. In this case the LAPG Level IV generally starts to frag and fall apart in larger chunks like RMA's 1155. The 1092 has a laminated strike face, and when I tested it, still was entirely whole after numerous shots. The LAPG is lighter because it uses a .5" foam border, where as the 1092 is full edge to edge. The LAPG is also single curve. The LAPG work but they are on the bottom of my recommended lists because of the cheaper builds. They will work but are there are better options.