Hardtail Vise Ep.14: Counterbore for Thurst Bearing

We're back on the old K&T mill to begin workong on the the counterbore for the thrust bearing and the two holes that are drilled and tapped for the bolt on jaw. This episode we'll focus on the counterbore using the mill's horizontal spindle and a 3" boring head to get that op finished out.
#abom79 #manualmachining #horizontalmill #hardtailvise
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[@brianmoore1164]

Sorry about incorrect print, but I think a bronze sleeve pressed in would look like it was the design from the beginning and maybe give it a few style points.

[@jeffbear5317]

I agree a bronze or brass sleeve would be beautiful! Might as well make the mistake into a improvement.

[@mikebroom1866]

All vises should come with thrust bearings. I put a needle thrust bearing on mine and it made a world of difference. I wish I had the machinery to be able to add a proper thrust bearing.

[@johncollins2037]

@mikebroom1866. All my machines give me a thurst. All built between 1938 to 1965, and machine material as they please, regardless of my efforts and DETERMINED input.

[@kindabluejazz]

Are you sure there isn't just a dead battery in your DRO? Electronics with battery backup have been widely used since at least the 70s.

[@matthewjordan3348]

More than likely your shellmill has face relief ground into it. This means your counter bore bottom face is not flat but conical. Your thrust bearing lower race will then not sit flat and will be forced to confirm to that surface under load. Likely leading to irregular wear or the lower race failing completely.

[@amalfi460]

I’m guessing this will be a 28,000 dollar vise when it’s done

[@CXensation]

Not sure that would even do it ...

[@calvinculpalt]

It's not for profit, doesn't matter

[@lukeb3930]

Not any meaningful number if it's not sold😅

[@zorbakaput8537]

I am sure he would be happy to sell it to you at that price as you recognise its true value.

[@cdnaudioguy]

MIght be cool to make a brass insert.. Just cuz.. ;-)

[@TheUncleRuckus]

Adam, iirc your DRO should have a Battery Backup so the measurements don't get wiped when it powers off. You may want to pop the cover off and have a look bc I suspect that it's a dead battery. 👍👍

[@bobtherat99]

I like when you decide to rely on your hand vs machine feed. I think that is the difference between a skilled machinist and a master craftsman. Craftsmanship is such a subtle art.

[@JohnBare747]

Too bad to run into unforeseen problems like that thrust washer size discrepancy but nobody better around to put in the Fix. Looking forward to another good year of good chips.

[@Ideasite]

Fantastic editing, Adam! The triple split screen view was brilliant. Had to rewind and enjoy that part several times.

[@bernardwill7196]

I wish a Happy New Year to you and your family. Greetings from Germany.

[@willemvantsant5105]

A lot of Vises have an inclined ledge cast just above the thrust bearing, reduces the chance of chips entering, this Vice does not. Would have been a nice feature.

[@RuthlessMindset68]

Hi Adam. If I were you, I'd break out both sets of plans for this vise and compare every last measurement! The saying goes 'Usually more than 1 error tends to creep into plans, through iterations!'

[@MichaelModrow]

Impressive project, Adam! Happy new year and greetings from Germany to everyone here! Sorry for my poor English, but ... I'm wondering, why you are going to make a spindle on your own anyway, 16:42. Of course a shaft of 1.25" will have a 12 % increase in cross section over 30 mm. But the delivered shaft has a rolled thread with an unbroken "grain" and with a more resistant, compressed surface. A new spindle would have to be turned down from appr. 50 mm or 2 inches and you need a new nut, too. Are you going to machine your own spindle just because you can? Is the thread pitch of any interest in a vise?

[@jeremylastname873]

“Trust, but verify.” The old adage rings of experience.

[@Peter_Riis_DK]

4:10 - Is it me or is the workpiece moving slightly? 😨

[@dizzolve]

sure looks like it's moving back and forth

[@kurtarmbrust]

After all the machining is done, you need to do some really artistic grinding on the casting to remove the mold lines. Maybe figure a way to match the as cast texture. That would make the vice a working sculpture!

[@metro_ss]

This has been a great series. Thanks for sharing!!

[@RobertGracie]

Saturdays are now my favourite day of the week at 8pm GMT because thats when Abom releases all of his EPIC videos :D never stop producing Adam, these are awesome to watch!

[@plainnpretty]

I agree

[@marceld3714]

Hey Adam, I've been watching your content for a few years now, I was sitting here watching this video and it popped in my head that Abby and yourself bought that property, just wondering how that's coming along? FYI, I'm the furthest thing from being a machinist, but I love the content. Keep up the great work..

[@CothranMike]

AB question: what about the 3° taper from the face mill at the bottom, or floor of the hole, repeated cranking will provide an off set dilateral force on the hardened floor washer. Cracking is possible yet

[@jmptaz]

I truly love how you do not hide mistakes you just knuckle down and fix what happened

[@willgallatin2802]

Adam, did you watch Bob Ross as a boy? That was one happy accident. :P

[@NotJRB]

I always enjoy each video. Thanks! As to the mistaken specification print, who's perfect? It all came out in the wash.

[@merkyworks]

Bronze sleeve would look really good

[@hasletjoe5984]

This will be the finest Fireball Tool vise on the planet! Thanks Adam.

[@canonicaltom]

A sleeve could look really nice, even intentional. Someone else in the comments suggested bronze. Maybe steel with some kind of coating.

[@number40Fan]

Seems like this video is a little out of order. I was a bit confused when it started like it did.

[@duanecovert4467]

this is a reminder to always to check the prints to the parts thanks for sharing

[@tsmartin]

Teachable moment.

[@james-ew7kl]

Average Joe the machinist ,in possession of the print and the part ( even if located at the other shop) would have had an earful if he had gotten himself in AB' s situation. But this is AB's channel and it is KZbin, so he is both faultless and in no way is there any take away lesson to be learnt by him; purely Jason and company's fault.

[@marley589]

@@james-ew7kl When boring to suit a part that you already have, you use the part to help as a gauge, it's belt and braces to prevent mistakes.

[@marley589]

​@@SpakasAlbertat the beginning of the video the shell mill was almost touching the fireball vice handle. The difference in size was obvious.

[@robstirling3173]

Make a nylon sleeve which will keep the dust out of the thrust bearing?

[@jmazoso]

Loving this project!

[@SharpShooterCO]

It's so enjoyable to watch you work! I am living vicariously through you! Keep up the fantastic work!

[@ch4611]

Hey Adam, at work we had a dro that would shut off like that and I took some electronic plug cleaner and unplugged all the connections at the dro, let it sit for a minute then flushed both male and female ends of the connections. We haven’t had a shutting off problem since. Might be worth a try

[@rakeshanchal9414]

Make a steel sleeve..Press and grub it..Bore it up to the bearing size..And tell the print guy that he is helping a lot..ta..daa....That's how we gonna deal this kind of things here in india.. Keep the good work brother..

[@randallbayles1326]

as long as inside diameter on that bearing matches the shaft size to keep it centered the outside shouldnt matter should it cause a thrust bearing is not for side pressure or alignment randy

[@philhunt9297]

I've just questioned something along the same lines. Supplied thrust bearing has smaller id than [I think Adam called it] spindle slot

[@TedRoza]

G'day Adam. Your Doing a great job according to the specifications given to you, & your future modification that you have planned with the bigger shaft & baring, will work out well. I like the use of the boring bar etc on the Horizontal drive. Another excellent video, looking forward to the next Installment.

[@yurkagagarin8140]

Adam,Ilike your love to old Mashines......Worming my german Heart...Sorry my English.

[@MadMotorDoc]

Enjoying the vise build. I was asked to bore/finish cylinder off spec sheet I refused without part (piston) in my hands (back ordered) good thing I didnt would have been over bored and thrown away vintage cylinder.

[@DavidSellars-b8l]

Tweaking an already impressive product. An American tradition. You will have to offer an upgrade kit for this vice.

[@marley589]

Is the upgrade his property to sell?

[@cymaz100]

Adam, it’s great to see your mistakes and the problem solving

[@johncollins2037]

what mistake?

[@avnsteve1]

Yeah bro! Just bore a smaller hole, right?

[@65BAJA]

Thanks for this. I thought it was going to be a slow day in my KZbin feed but I guess I was wrong.

[@davidhall1779]

abombing a fireball vice, sweeeeeeeeeet. bigger diameter spindle, donnt wait to do it until later. please do it now!

[@Curtislow2]

As Bob Ross would say "we have happy accidents"

[@BruceBoschek]

There is always something to learn from your videos. As always, Adam, I appreciate all of your efforts to teach and share.

[@richkozlowski]

Is it possible to do a quick review of the tooling for the horz. Mill set up.

[@BCHonea]

You better powder coat this in an amazing way

[@ydonl]

And pinstripes... okay, but flames... no. Not this time. :)

[@eddrm4685]

Happy New year!

[@ackeragard3128]

Wouldn't it be nice to have a seal in the bearing sleeve? To decrease grinding-dust i the bearing...

[@halsnyder296]

Amazing how much machining goes into a vice!

[@Landrew0]

You don't need to go to all that trouble to remake the spindle. The metric one is close enough, and most people understand metric nowadays.

[@zorbakaput8537]

You didn't watch the vid - if you did then you didn't listen.

[@dl2122d]

you can make a cup that will fit on the screw and cover the bearing to help keep it clean.

[@ronnydowdy7432]

Definitely a one of a kind A-BOM VICE NOW.

[@MikeBaxterABC]

9:32 :) .. LOL ... I remember when Adam broke that .. sheared the pin right off the wrench, if I remember correctly :)

[@james-ew7kl]

That was hilarious. I would have expected him to have renewed it right off the bat, but maybe he don't break too many stuff.

[@billabernathy1541]

Nice work, Adam. It's nice to see the K&T in action once again.

[@JimWhitaker]

Good camera work.

[@mm9773]

If those guys don’t reply to Adam, what kind of customer service is the average Joe going to get?

[@jimdarhower4945]

They did reply. He spoke with Jason. What are you even talking about?

[@ToolCrime]

What do you expect customer service to do? This isn’t a normal. Adam is building a vise for himself. He’s on his own adventure on this one.

[@bearsrodshop7067]

Been waiting for you to get back into your old shop, where most of us spent hours before the new shop came along. Maybe its all those Kennedy tool boxes call you back, but what ever it was, please do more over here in the Old Shop,,love it! Being a hobbyist, and mite put my foot in my mouth, but wouldn''t having the new bearing in hand to double check MCarr spec come before finial dimension was milled? I did hear you say slip fit, but had to ask, Bear.

[@BedsitBob]

When you make the 1.25" screw, would you need another nut, threaded accordingly?

[@ToolCrime]

Yes a new tube nut will have to be made to match the spindle size

[@dorelgogu8631]

Hi! Thanks for the videos! I've learned a lot from you. A suggestion, if I may. For the holes, you can use the old shaft you and your father made. Just make a bushing and use the overarm support for centering. What do you think about this?

[@jayvc001]

Maybe a plastic delrin or hdpe sleeve for the temporary bearing. or 3d printed pla if you're into that kind of thing.

[@57Dalv]

Adam, help me understand your internal measurements with the telescope gauge mic 2-3 ga. @ 21:28. When you check that internal diameter the guage has a square end but the cut is a radius. Isn't the actual reading larger than the "shoulders" of the gauge. Sorry for my ignorance, 40+ years in construction but nothing to this degree of acurracy. I am a long time follower and learned so much of your trade in machining. Thanks

[@spikeypineapple552]

The gauge doesn't have a square end, its a radius. Look up some pictures of telescoping ID gauges.

[@silasmarner7586]

@@spikeypineapple552 Well put Mr. Pineapple.

[@marley589]

Telescopic gauges are usually locked with the handle roughly near the centre not at one end. Never seen them used like that.

[@nutzaboutnature1738]

Making lemonade from lemons. Great video and thanks for including the pitfalls. :)

[@torkandbeans7321]

Love your vids, is this just for your vice or are you going to work with Jason to make USA made vices for production.

[@DavidKutzler]

This video gave me some serious boring head envy. I wish I had that kind rigidity in my boring head setup.

[@michaelwebber4033]

Sounds like the DRO has a loose connection for the power. I'd check that out I think

[@MrPnutter]

Your friend at fireball, WOW😊

[@davidlittle9010]

That’s the most precision built vise in the world. 😀

[@marley589]

How many mistakes so far? how many are acceptable to still be called a precision vice?

[@james-ew7kl]

@@marley589 Mistakes tend to happen more times at each end of the spectrum: A) little time to do the job and are hurried, and B) all the time in the world to do the job and there's essentially no timescale.

[@marley589]

@@james-ew7kl I guess I have been lucky enough to work at companies where mistakes very rarely happened. That's using apprenticed staff though.

[@k4x4map46]

good stuff...lots of fixturing and machining...interesting project

[@bulletproofpepper2]

Oh man, my heart dropped! So glad you got a plan “B”. Thanks for sharing.

[@RobertKohut]

All's well that ends well... 🙂Great project series!! :-)

[@yelims20]

if that bearing is thursty, give it a drink LOL

[@johnlawler1626]

Lovely piece of machining mate thanks for sharing 👍

[@jacobhoupt]

Dead coin cell battery in your DRO, maybe?

[@ProfSimonHolland]

excellent fix.

[@angelramos-2005]

So far so good.See you the next one.Thank you Adam.

[@thisolesignguy2733]

The way the light hit it, it gave it a copperish hue. That got me thinking that the vise would look awesome if it had a coating on it..I think it would be really awesome if it was chrome dipped. Just a thought I think could be an option.

[@ellieprice363]

RustOleum Hammered toned copper would look great.

[@philhunt9297]

I pressed pause 13:32 so forgive me if I'm jumping the gun or not understanding precision machining but here goes. Supplied thrust bearings (undersize od) also have a smaller id than that of the vice. Unsure if it matters but going by the design and build for heavy work it does matter....a lot.

[@philhunt9297]

18:52 Answered - I jumped the gun

[@buckhorncortez]

@@philhunt9297 Then simply delete the comment...

[@philhunt9297]

@@buckhorncortez I see my previous reply was deleted - so I'll try again. Does Adam delete video clips when something don't look right or goes wrong? Are you perfect? Do you accept everything in front of you as fact and unquestionable?

[@harlanmartin9964]

uggggh....wrong design drawing....I design fabrication drawings for the foodservice industry (stainless steel tables, pot sinks, dish tables, etc) ... I have engineered a complete project before, some 35 items, only to be told once they were done that I was sent the wrong design plans and that the facility had completely changed.....very frustrating, but it ended up ok because I got paid twice for the same project....but was a total waste of time. Luckily it worked out in your favor!!!! great video!!

[@willemvantsant5105]

Rolling element thrust bearing with metal filings, recipe for failure. Good old fashioned Bronze thrust washer is more durable, and Adam you are plenty strong enough to deal with the added friction😅

[@chrisburbank6484]

look up the efficiency difference between bronze bearings and roller bearings hen relate that to torque to the screw

[@ToolCrime]

Big difference. Thrust bearings for the win. I’d just keep the bearings dry. They don’t spin fast enough to require grease to attract particles.

[@MF175mp]

​@@ToolCrimeI would just add some kind of multi lip dust seals, or labyrinth seals maybe.

[@canonicaltom]

Just cover it with a rotary seal if you're that paranoid. A dry thrust bearing like this will stay clean by itself though.

[@willemvantsant5105]

Not paranoid at all, just stating fact, you probably dont know the meaning of the word Paranoid.

[@itarry4]

OK so explain why lathes which will also act as horizontal Mills, so the head stock has a way to connect your Milling tools to it as well as still taking the 3 jaw, etc chucks, collet chuck and the rest. I mean surely you can attach the tooling to the collet chuck so you'd just need the horizontal bed attachment to use your lathe as a horizontal Mill. Probably wrong don't know nearly enough to judge but seems possible at least.

[@andrewterry8092]

No. Lathes are designed to hold and move the material in the chuck, while the tooling remains motionless. Mills are designed to hold the material motionless, while moving the tool. They are totally different. The lathe has no way to hold the material, even if you could somehow attach a tool in place of the chuck. And if you could, you'd have no way of controlling the tool or moving the material, at least not without major modifications that would convert the machine from a lathe to a mill.

[@itarry4]

@@andrewterry8092 oh I knew that just still I know some lathe companies make Mill attachments already which use the headstock motor to power the tooling so thought it'd be easier to make a horizontal version but again not exactly sure how those Mill attachments work so. I mean you'd only need a horizontal bed to mount and move the material in that extra axis. I guess the hard part would be finding a way to adjust the height of bed which would really restrict what was possible as I think the mill attachments you can buy get around the fact the height of the bed can't be changed much by making the milling head move up and down instead. Thanks anyway.

[@cameronwebster6866]

@@andrewterry8092 An endmill can go in a lathe collet chuck just as well as one on a mill, and the work piece can be affixed to the top of the cross-slide (for an example see this video of line-boring on a benchtop lathe: watch?v=xp6QfH29IhE). The main issue with using a lathe as a horizontal mill is that a standard lathe only has two axes, Z and Y (a compound is just a way of mixing the two), this means if you only have a lathe and absolutely need to do a bit of milling you can, but it is going to be fairly tricky.

[@whittysworkshop982]

He uses a horizontal mill because he has it; why use a less rigid way on a lathe, doesn't make sense.

[@itarry4]

@@whittysworkshop982 that's not anything like what I was saying or suggesting. It had nothing to do with his channel or the machines he has or uses at all it was a general question about why no one has maybe ever made a attachment or built the ability to use a lathe in a similar way to a horizontal Mill. Not really sure why you'd even think it was a suggestion for him or any sort of criticism or whatever. I don't even mention him or his machining choices.

[@souravsharma8182]

Hello sir, i watch your videos and sir request to you please make your's latest SHOP TOUR video and your last shop tour video was 3 year ago.

[@garychaiken808]

Great job. Thank you 😊

[@PhilRable]

How did you centre the job for the first cutter?

[@chrisburbank6484]

i was kinda wondering about this too

[@blublublublublublub]

Maybe he has touched off on the fixed visejaw

[@chrisburbank6484]

best guess would be to put a known size shaft clamped in the vice , sweep it from the spindle then do the offset for the part

[@marley589]

The position of the counterbore is crucial to where the end of the leadscrew will fit at the other end for smooth operation. There must be an x datum that he worked from? Perhaps he can explain in the description where the x reference was.

[@1903A3shooter]

GREAT looking surface finish. Was fun to watch. Dave, Newport News Ship,

[@RoyHamm-v5u]

I have a question. Bare in mind, that I'm not a machinist, so i could be wrong here. So here goes. Would it not be a good idea to bore out the deeper hole and insert a bronze bushing into it, to help the alleviate some of the load off the thrust bearings, and help keep the screw in line with the nut, and the shaft wouldn't be just turning in open space.

[@rodneywroten2994]

thanks for sharing

[@rodneywroten2994]

thanks for sharing

[@6NBERLS]

Most excellent.

[@SiboBushings]

Well done, great job

[@richb313]

Great job Adam

[@floridaflywheelersantiquee7578]

Thanks for sharing

[@andrewstoll4548]

So we have a happy mistake. It does not happen that way very often. Lucky you.

[@Omnis2]

Fabricators can’t make parts to Fireball’s specs. Machinists can’t make parts to Fireball’s specs.

[@deemstyle]

You win the internet today! Had me laughing out loud!

[@Manufacturingsite1]

Amazing video

[@troybrown7994]

I know you’re upset about the mistake you made while machining the jaws. Have you thought about taking a few thousands off each hardened jaw so that it sits tightly to the cast jaw holder? You of course would have to match this machining on the other jaw so they would match and sit level when closed. Just two cents from a non machinist. Love the channel, keep up the good work.

[@tates11]

The main mistake was to leave a sharp corner in the jaw body. If you see Fireballs video that is the place where all the vises failed. A radius in this corner is best practice with a chamfer on the jaw insert. Did anyone notice the huge size difference at the beginning of the video where the shell mill was next to the finished vice.

[@__austrianoldboy_9861]

nice machining

[@cayde7469]

This is completely off topic, but I am doing a full restore on an old lathe and the cast iron thread selector handle broke and needs to be brazed and remachined. Does anyone know if Adam does repairs like this and if so how I could contact him?

[@samec88]

I think he does, Keith Rucker also does those sorts of repairs a lot on his channel

[@markanderson7349]

Adam, I have 8 shafts that I need to build up using the flame spray. I need to take about .125 off to clean up the old wear. My tooling is pretty sparse and the shaft material is extremely hard, I can barely scratch it. Can you recommend a cutter that will stand up to this material?

[@liamkelly8684]

Adam will not reply unless ur starrett or some other big company

[@josta2010]

@@liamkelly8684 Meow 😾🤣

[@johncollins2037]

@@josta2010 @liamkelly8684 is being TOTALLY Honest

[@mrxmry3264]

Just FYI, you have a typo in the title.

[@myname7021]

thurst 😆