They Didn't Retcon Anything! - Zelda Timeline Explained!

[@med5674]

Mineru couldn’t have raised Rahru and Sonia’s child due to her transferring her spirit to the Purah pad after her body expired due to fatal amounts of exposure to gloom so I’d say it’d make more sense for the four remaining sages to raise the child instead seeing as they were still alive and would have plenty of time to do so especially with the sage of water

[@AbsurdZeldaTheories]

Yeah that but is totally off. Despite having played that I missed that fact she “dies” on screen. Still it’s possible she could have been helping the constructs in raising her

[@zamvalis_official]

@@AbsurdZeldaTheories Bro what are you talking about. Hylia is a modern child being raised by their generation's version of an iPad. Nothing out of the ordinary lol.

[@haileeraestout5567]

@@AbsurdZeldaTheories This Happened AFTER The Interloper War Where The Goddesses Banished The Interlopers To The Twilight Realm And King Rauru And Queen Sonia Are Midna's Somewhat Great Grandparents

[@jrosario0126]

​@@AbsurdZeldaTheories there is something wrong here, in breath it is stated or implied no male gerudo has being born since the seal on ganondorf, second a hylian and zonai having children they have to be related in some way for it to happen thus i bring the option that the zonai are and evolved form of the twilight people, and this could explain why there are two zonai left, twili can't last long in the light realm, this is why most of the zonai civ is in the depth, why rauru sis is in the depth, and for rauru i presume he is a Descendants from midna

[@WarpCorpFromProjectmoon]

Imagine Goddess Hylia get educated by a nintendo switch

[@wizcatcheslightning]

I really like this theory. But Demise got his forehead scar from being imprisoned by Hylia with the sealing spike. The sealing spike sticks out of the forehead of the Imprisoned to allude to this. Also, when Ganondorf turns into the Demon King, Sonia’s secret stone, which represents time, becomes neutral again. Secret stones are inherently neutral and bring out the power of the one who possesses them. So Ganondorf’s rancor is most expressed in this scenario and he reverts to demon form and grows horns/gains the ability to generate demons for the first time we’ve ever seen. Symbolically speaking, he “conquers time”, which is a title Demise is known for.

[@Draezeth]

Also, the Master Sword was made *to* fight Demise. Ganondorf can't come first.

[@SeriousTable]

@@Draezeth Nah that part's easily dismissed. A sword created to fight the "the spirit of Ganondorf expressed as Demise" with multiple thousands of years bathing in the holy sealing power of Zelda would absolutely remain effective against Demise's original form. After all, the other famous title for the Master Sword is "The Sword that Seals the Darkness". Mineru would absolutely be planning ahead to build a weapon to combat Ganondorf in all his various incarnations (the very same weapon Zelda was holding and explaining it can heal, to a sage with the capacity to transfer her spirit).

[@WimpyKidGirl]

@@Draezeth if anything it suggests that ganondorf did come before demise, because there’s no master sword, link or Zelda, suggesting that totk took place before the events of demise and the curse

[@diveblock2058]

@@Draezeth also hylia made the master sword so would that imply that the master sword is zonai technology which would mean she knew where the trifoce is which would mean she could just nuke him since she is half zonai and the entire plot of skyward sword wouldnt happen

[@diveblock2058]

@@SeriousTable ok but then how would you explain hylia keeping the triforce safe while using the master sword as the key....does this imply that the zonai had the triforce but couldn't use it for god knows why because the whole plot of SS revolves around Hylia not being able to use the triforce....yet in this theory she would only be half zonai in which case if zonai arnt able to use it then why can the king in wind waker

[@tora4180]

I see the timeline as SS first, then a long time after is the pre-story to TOTK. I believe the Zonai are the descendants of the dragons in SS, and eventually they came down from the sky. SS Link and Zelda established Hylians on the surface, but they never established a kingdom, which allows Rarau to be the first king. I also think Sonia is a descendant of Skyward Sword Link and Zelda, and TOTK Ganon is the first reincarnation of Demise, whicj could be an explanation as to why the secret stone makes him as 'demony' as he is, because he has the closest connection to Demise's true power

[@jessefinnegan1719]

Also TOTK Ganon recognized the Master Sword. He didn't call it that, but he did recognize it as the blade that banishes evil. The only way that could be true is if he was born some time after the events of Skyward Sword, not before.

[@nuh-uhbro765]

I think this is exactly it. On the timeline in Hyrule Historia there are 2 time periods that take place directly after Skyward Sword, and before any other game. One is labeled “the sacred realm is sealed” and the other is labeled “the kingdom of Hyrule is established” which sounds to me like the period of time Zelda went back to. Everybody assumes Hyrule was established immediately after SS and even the Hyrule Historia claims that’s not the case at all.

[@LL-wc8ne]

and I think it could be possible that Rarau and Sonia might not having any kids. Other descendants of SS Link and Zelda became the king/queen of the kingdom when Sonia and the last two zonai passed away. This can explain why the rest of royal family don't have any zonai characteristics, but they looks more like 100% hylians. Sonia might be an indirect ancestors of TOTK Zelda, because she only have the power of time but doesn't have much sacred power that can dispel evil based on her conversation with Zelda in one of the dragon tears memories.

[@woomyboy98]

​@@jessefinnegan1719 Ganon recognized the master sword because while he was being sealed Rauru tells Ganon that a hero with the sword that seals the darkness will come to fight and kill him

[@tora4180]

@@LL-wc8ne Well they kinda have to have had kids, that's why Zelda had Time and Light powers

[@Red-vj3ww]

Totk definitely takes place waaaaayyyyy after skyward sword. Fi speaks multiple times in the game and more importantly it’s heavily emphasized that tears amplify the powers you already have. Ganondorf being a reincarnation of Demise’s hatred is what allows him to be the closest ganondork we’ve seen to demise. The stone is amplifying the latent piece of demise in every Ganon and it’s putting him on par with Demise. This explains the forgotten temple and also explains why the triforce isn’t mentioned as it’s been so long that people believe it’s just a legend if it’s even a legend anymore at all.

[@itsJoshW]

"Fi speaks multiple times in the game and more importantly it’s heavily emphasized that tears amplify the powers you already have." No. The Master Sword speaks. Fi doesn't come out of the sword and say "Master your energy is running low, would you like me to rub your back" or whatever nonsense that handholding abomination is. The Master Sword's original design was a combination of King Arthur, LOTR's Sting, and Disney. I don't think Fujibayashi even cared about the original games when designing Skyward Sword, which was why it was so abysmal. "Ganondorf being a reincarnation of Demise’s hatred" ?? How is Ganondorf the reincarnation of demise's hatred when the scheme of Ganondorf in A Link To The Past, Ocarina of Time, Wind Waker and even Twilight Princess was to not be "The reincarnation of demise's hatred"? That's nonsense used to attempt to pad the existence of an arbitrary character in a video game that otherwise does not connect to the other games. TOTK respects this by relabeling "malice" to Gloom, and definitively points out (numerous times) that historical inaccuracies happen with word of mouth. "The stone is amplifying the latent piece of demise in every Ganon and it’s putting him on par with Demise" LOL. This ones funny. So it amplifies what power in any user; So I'd presume each of the sages just are actually God's then? Or, could it be, that Ganondorf (An evil sorcerer) had his evil demon-like powers amplified? Should I also throw into the notion that Twinrova is also the names of his blades, and Twinrova was the serugate mothers to Ganondorf Dragmire (The Ganondorf from earlier Zelda entries, not this one)? "This explains the forgotten temple and also explains why the triforce isn’t mentioned as it’s been so long that people believe it’s just a legend if it’s even a legend anymore at all." Actually, no, it doesn't lol. That doesn't do anything with the Forgotten Temple. The Trifroce isn't mentioned because, in the past, it's in the Sacred Realm. In the Present, it's faded into myth, much like the Zonai, Ganondorf, and various others. In addition, may I throw into the mix that it's likely that the Hyrulian Family has possession of the full Triforce in BOTW/TOTK, which is also why it's not mentioned; It was long speculated that Zelda "has" the full triforce. For the Forgotten Temple, so many people aren't connecting dots and I laugh so much when they speculate 40,000 other things but something that "contradicts skyward sword is a shame". The Temple of Light was known to be the location where the Chamber of Sages stood in the Sacred Realm. The Temple of Light was breached, as it was also the location the Triforce stood in the Sacred Realm before Ganondorf Dragmire attacked it. I'd argue that the Temple of Light, somehow, is on the ground in the valley. Whatever event caused this to fall, was the last location for the Triforce. This, then, had been now a home for a large "Goddess" Statue, which underneath it in the depths is a Bargainer statue. There's a lot of implications I could go on with this, but I'll leave you with: Look into what a bargainer is in mythology, and try and figure out why that would exist in the very same locations as the goddess statues -- and why the Temple of Light would fall exactly right there, along with the Well Springs location being below the Springs of each respective statue.

[@geminisfl]

Stop calling the stones "TEARS"... those are different things.

[@thelastmastergamer2846]

​@@itsJoshWthe stones are neutral, and yes, they amplify latent powers. This was explained in the game

[@Neurogenesis1251]

@@itsJoshW If Fi didnt speak, Zelda wouldnt call the sword a "She" several times

[@despeinado340]

@@itsJoshW Dude, the sword literally makes the exact same sound as when Fi would come out of it in Skyward Sword. It's her inside the Master Sword, whether you like it or not

[@thebloodyaussie1458]

This has been my theory: The Zonai as a race date WAY way back but they didn't initially come from the sky. Instead, they actually originated in The Depths, rich with a material they can use to build and power great machines (later named Zonaite). They eventually come to the surface around the Lanayru Sea area where they start a massive mining operation (I personally believe the Zonai built the robots from the Lanayru area in Skyward Sword since they're similar to the stewards and other constructs). Eventually, Demise and his armies attack the land, and even though Hylia is able to imprison Demise, the Zonai suffer great casualties, leading to a new extinction of their race. As well as lifting the Hylians into the sky (later to become Skyloft), she also creates islands for the Zonai to live on in an attempt to keep their race going. However, as the generations progress, they slowly die down. The events of Skyward Sword then happen. A few generations later, whilst the Hylians are expanding into more and more territory, the last two Zonai descend from the sky to share their gifts (the secret stones). Whilst helping the Hylians develop new technologies and disperse to new lands, a Zonai and Hylian fall in love, leading to a union of the two races and the start of the Kingdom Of Hyrule. This then leads to the flashback events in TotK. I have no idea if any lore contradicts this (though contradictions and Zelda lore seem to go hand in hand a lot of the time) but this is what I got

[@glutentag5853]

Amazing theory

[@steaktastebetterpill]

Not a bad take at all. I'm also inclined to believe the notion that the Zonai may have been the creators of all that tech in SS, so all of this could make a lot of sense.

[@Forcystus1337]

I've been thinking this as well because in skyward sword they never tell us (or I don't remember) who made these ancient tech timestones. I also DONT think the ganondorf in totk predates skyward sword it just doesn't make sense. The ganondorf in totk (to me) seems to be before ocarina of time. One point is that ganondorf is flanked by 2 green tinged gerudo on his left and right in one of the scenes in totk which may be a younger twinrova.

[@arempy5836]

​@@Forcystus1337 Yeah, that makes sense. Twinrova keep themselves alive through magic and once a new Male is born to the gerudo they raise him to be like their old master. Perhaps the Gerudo stopped having kings for a while after Ganon's betrayal, maybe even persecuting males born to them but they would later suffer some catastrophe before Ocarina of Time and were desperate enough to allow Twinrova to raise the new male to be king.

[@mrbiscuits001]

That’s a great theory, but the robots on the Lanaryu sea were built by Hylia herself. The way I see it, the zonai descended (or ascended if their depths origin is true xd) thousands of years to re-found hyrule at the very end of the timeline. To say it simply, totk’s past still happens thousands of years after the latest games in the timelines

[@ThoseMagicChangesAG]

I think people are overthinking this timeline thing. I think the events of skyward sword happened first, meaning that Zelda and Link stay on the surface to establish a kingdom there and some time passes where the Zonai come down and help those hylian’s progress even further. Sonia being a descendant from Skyward sword Zelda and marrying Rauru to establish the royal family.

[@noahmart0124]

Exactly, I don’t think link and Zelda of skyward sword procreated enough to create a kingdom overnight, I definitely think it took a long while for the actual kingdom of hyrule to be established, maybe after S.S. Zelda and link died and maybe one of their predecessors was Sonia.

[@herooftime2428]

The main issues is the placement of the Imprisoning War. Because since it’s first appearance in Link to the Past, it’s always been at the beginning of the the downfall timeline. But now is before Ganondorf was born. Or is this different Ganon from that of the one from Oot, TP, and WW?

[@ThoseMagicChangesAG]

@@herooftime2428 I mean if there Can be multiple links and Zelda, there can be multiple ganondorfs.

[@deathsheir2035]

@@sionnachrealta5534 It's a constraint to them, because they allow it to be a constraint. If we have three branches in the timeline already, why can't there be a fourth branch? or a fifth? A Branch in the era of chaos. One path, being the path and branches we already know, and the second being BotW and TotK, in which similar, yet slightly different, events occur. This gives us 6 different paths to follow. Heck, because of how far in the timeline BotW is supposed to take place, an event could easily occur, which some how bridges the timelines, and unifies it, leading to the collapse of Hyrule, and a second era of chaos. During this second era of chaos, traditions are forgotten, and information lost. Then the Zonai appear, and through them, a second era of prosperity, and the restablishment of the Kingdom of Hyrule, however, because of the information loss, they believe it to be the first establishment of the kingdom. Or the idea that there was an attempt to establish a kingdom, before the events of Skyward Sword is 100% sound, and because of the time gap, information concerning the birth of a man, in the Gerudo legends, is false, just simply forgotten. ignoring the timeline completely, simply adds a new branch or two to the timeline. Constraining yourself to the timeline, can give fun narrative plays, while still holding that Zelda feel.

[@jessica-ov6js]

That's how I see it too! Sonia is the child of ss zelda! Cause in ss the story goes they bring the ppl to the surface to live on the land of Hyrule that Hylia had made. So the people build houses and they adapt to this new land and when Zelda's child, Sonia is of age she meets Rauru and together they established the first Kingdom of Hyrule

[@Gamelorian]

Ganondorf: clearly has evil intentions and is even plainly smirking about it Zelda: I think he has evil intentions that will probably have reprocutions for thousands of years upon Hyrule which could be absolutely DEVASTATING Rauru: Yeah, I think I might keep an eye out

[@megaman37456]

The appropriate response should've been: Rauru: I understand Zelda, Guards, execute him.

[@Lwiis64]

The biggest stupidity of this whole situation is that Zelda has been hearing the prophesy of Calamity GANON her whole life. A 10,000 year-old prophesy. She then went on to experience the return of Calamity GANON and have a war against it which lasted for a 100 years. She then meets an evil man in the past named GANONdorf and doesn't put two and two together. I was without words. Why make a direct sequel and then ignore what the characters experienced previously? I thought then and there she would instantly realize that Ganondorf was the origins of Calamity Ganon.

[@megaman37456]

@@Lwiis64 That's the thing. SHE DID. She actually tells Rauru she doesn't trust him. She can't just say "Oh shit that man's the most evil being alive, I know cause in the future I had to deal with this monster called Calamity Ganon that spawned from under Hyrule Castle." Without actually having evidence to back up her claims. That's the tricky part about time travel, even if you try to warn the denizens of the past about an impending danger from the future, they'll call you crazy. Sure Rauru and Sonia would believe Zelda, but what about the rest of Hyrule? Shit what about the Gerudo?

[@Lwiis64]

@@megaman37456 I don't think she made the connection. She sounded like Ganondorf was giving her an evil vibe, not that she linked him to Calamity Ganon.

[@unnaturaldisaster9450]

He has three and still didn’t see it coming

[@owenbyrne9850]

this is an interesting theory, but I personally don't see Demise as a ganon variant. His forehead scar is from the sealing stake that sealed him in Skyward Sword

[@austiningle3158]

I believe that the times of the zonai take place after the events of the original timeline. A big reason indicator of this is the extended lomei labrynths in this game. When you complete them, a god of dragons, boars, and owls speaks to you. Each god seems to be zonai, considering their spirits were sealed inside of zonai structures. These zonai gods refer to tge treasure they hid as being ancient. So even to these zonai (who were likely dead by the time of the pre-story of totk) the treasure was ancient. The treasure in question just happens to be phantom ganon's armor from oot. Theres other things that point in this direction as well. The zonai hybrid hero, Rauru knowing about the sword that seals the darkness, ganondorf being sealed away until botw, etc. That last one is huge though. Him being the bearer of the triforce of power, no one else could hold his piece of the triforce until hes reborn.

[@royboy6578]

And there were a new hyrule before like in spirit tracks so maybe it's so far in the future that they don't remember the old hyrules also there are rito and zora at the same time so it had to Be after at least windwaker for the rito to exist

[@Sleepy_Muse]

It’s never stated or implied that the gods that speak to you are sealed away, and I don’t think it’s possible to seal away a god anyways, they seem to lack a physical from, instead there channels, through material things like statues and stuff For instance, the goddess statue can’t physicaly do anything. When the mother goddess statue topples over, it takes the combined power of 3 other statues, pluse 3 claw droppings from the 3 dragons (who WERE likly once zonai) and even then, all they do is pick the statue up, and that’s about it The underground statues only return Poes to the afterlife, and seemingly don’t need to do anything else, and it’s unknown as to whether there gods or not Minaru needed a construct body as spirit And we’ve seen spirits before, capable of coming and going as they please, unless they have unfinished business But I doubt the spirit of even a god, would have to abide by thoes rules Secondly, if I were an old spirit, or an old god from an ancient time and was communicating with somone who was only born recently, I would indeed describe the relics as “ancient” to them, because from there point in time, they are Almost every other relic description describes them as old, or from another world, because regardless of who’s giving them to you, or where they come from, it’s all going to be old Final note, because I’m kind of losing track here, but where do you get the idea of theses gods being zonai, when they claim to be gods of wolves, dragons and boars The general line of logic, is that a god of a mythical group of creatures, is ether a Deity variation of those creatures, or something that created them And despite historians claiming the zonai are gods, we know there not, they just had powers LIKE gods, and I doubt they claimed to be gods, especially if they too worshiped gods and made offerings to them

[@Kaiserker]

As a counterpoint, the Phantom Ganon armor was renamed to Evil Spirit armor in totk, which I feel is intentional

[@Chris-gx1ei]

​​​@@KaiserkerThis was Because of the new Phantom Ganon in TotK. If you kill the Gloom Hands, you will spawn a Phantom Ganon. The Developers maybe just dont want to cause confusion Because there are multiple types of Phantom Ganons. Same goes to the Sword of the Six Sages being renamed into Dusk-Claymore. It makes sense that they changed it to not cause any confusion Because of the new sages. Yet you can find it hidden in the overworld and it is only uptainable after awakening the new sages - which is quiet interesting to think about.

[@austiningle3158]

@Aaron Dee I believe these gods are zonai because you only interact with these gods in zonai temples. The temples themselves seemed to be made for the purpose of housing the ancient armor. Without the armor, the temples serve as puzzles with no reward. Even if the gods themselves weren't zonai, they worked with the zonai to build the labrynths. Is it possible that the zonai built the labrynths without the phantom ganon armor? Yes, but that's not based on anything in game. If the labyrinths were built with the purpose of hiding the armor, then the armor existed before the labyrinths. Meaning the armor of phantom ganon from oot had to be around before the extinction of the zonai. Mineru and Rauru are the last of the zonai when zelda arrives at the founding of this version of hyrule. To wrap this up, unless mineru built each labyrinth as a disembodied spirit after the events of the imprisoning war, oot had to have happened before the founding of the new version of hyrule.

[@Zomboy123456789]

Personally I think we’ve gone so far into the future that events are starting to repeat themselves. At some point there is a massive culling and the name hyrule is lost to all but the near god like zonai. At some point they come down and “re”establish the kingdom and then demises curse kicks back in and a new ganondorf is born. All the items of the past games suggest this as well as the Master Sword being complete with Fi speaking through it.

[@ShadowEclipex]

Consider this for the series of events: Skyward Sword's Past - Totk Past - Skyward Sword Present - rest of the timeline - TotK Present Seems awkward at first, but could make sense of a lot of the issues .

[@itskdog]

@@ShadowEclipex but Impa is in the Temple of Time from SS Past to SS Present, and TotK Past sent the temple to the sky, do that doesn't quite track, either.

[@ShadowEclipex]

@@itskdog True. Well the only way I can try to rationalize that is perhaps there are multiple Temples of Time throughout the franchise. Since at least the OoT Temple of Time completely different from the TotK Temple of Time. It would make sense for the people of Hyrule to build new temples over the centuries or even Millenia.

[@itskdog]

@@ShadowEclipex but what would Impa do in that situation as she is staying there watching vigil over SS Zelda. Also no giant hole in the ground outside the temple either where Demise is sealed.

[@ShadowEclipex]

@@itskdog Not sure what you are asking about there.

[@PhillyCh3zSt3ak]

The only issue with the theory is the Lanayru Desert which would eventually become the Gerudo desert. According to Fi, under the command of Hylia the area was mined for time-shift stones which led to dessertification of the region which used to be rich grasslands. However, as presented the Gerudo forces came from the desert. The only other issue is Mineru caring for any child. Based on Zelda sealing her spirit inside of the Purah Pad it wouldn't have been that long after the battle and Zelda would have had to settle accounts with the other sages before her own transformation. I can see setting up a contingency (that being the Shiekah) to take care of any offspring, but not her taking care of them directly as that would be impossible.

[@diveblock2058]

i mean the triforce is also a massive issue since the entirety of SS revolves around hylia not being able to use it but if shes not a god then she should have just been able to use it OR WHY DIDNT SONIA or zelda or someone use the magic win all button

[@PhillyCh3zSt3ak]

@@diveblock2058 agreed, however that itself may have faded into legend itself even within the Royal Family or wherever Sonia comes from in terms of family in the distant past.

[@diveblock2058]

@@PhillyCh3zSt3ak I mean that would also mean it comes after skyward sword because as long as hylia existed as a god, the triforce was known about

[@PhillyCh3zSt3ak]

@@diveblock2058 agreed and that's the way I see it too, personally. However, there are arguements to be made regarding the timeline placement or even this being a parallel timeline where all piror game events happened and are recorded in history as we see presented in the games, but their actual events are twisted from oral storytelling being twisted or recorded wrong. Just look at the Bible, for example. You have hundreds if not a thousand years passing after Jesus and his apostles' death so you have no first-hand accounts to go off of, so if a monk screws up the transcribing of a text and it goes unnoticed and the original decays beyond recovery, there's no way to know if it's correct or not if it wasn't caught immediately. That's how you can have so many contradictory - at times - things be present, someone botched a translation, transcription, and so on. If Nintendo really wants to double down on what we've seen presented in Tears as the new history of Hyrule and not Skyward Sword, this is the way they'd have to do it: someone screwed up a historical document transcription or recorded oral history incorrectly some time in the ancient past of Hyrule.

[@aidanschuenke2769]

One semi-important/interesting detail: At the end of Skyward Sword, Demise's consciousness is sealed into the master sword, this might've been what prevented Ganondorf from regaining his full power for so long, when he shattered the sword in totk it allowed the demon king spirit to escape.

[@PadSapphire]

But Mineru can't take care of the child, Zelda seals her within the Purah Pad after she was mortally wounded during Ganondorf's sealing. Mineru separated her spirit from her physical form to place it in the Purah Pad and await the day Link took it and freed her, allowing her to manipulate her new construct body. Interesting theory though, def will subscribe

[@ratking6390]

He has a Pokémon channel as well

[@maddym.5466]

Yeah, the only person who could take care of their child is the unnamed Chamberlain that wrote the 12 Stone Tablets.

[@AbsurdZeldaTheories]

Aw thank you so much ^_^

[@samreddig8819]

Not to mention that Hyrule castle has a plaque in the basement that claims it was built specifically as an extra seal on Ganondorf. Even though it's been destroyed and rebuilt several times. Once even BY Ganondorf himself.

[@kotlolish]

Glad to be editing a Zelda Theory for Toby once again! Hope you guys enjoyed!

[@AbsurdZeldaTheories]

Thank you so much my guy

[@LSSTyranus]

@@AbsurdZeldaTheories there was a timeline split at Skyward Sword, one that a lot of people seem to forget about that one could fit stuff into.

[@LSSTyranus]

And its through this that the possibility of Sonia being this other timeline's incarnation of Hylia comes into play, just...one that didn't have any need to go to the springs, since Demise got killed by Link before the plan could ever be put into action.

[@ThatDudeCurtis6]

Problem with this theory is Rauru literally uses the Forgotten Temple which is heavily implied to be Skyloft that dropped to the ground. He stores the Secret Stones there and this is where Queen Sonia is buried and you can visit her grave. The Ancient Past in this game has to take place after Skyward Sword And because Rauru’s Kingdom is based on the Great Plateau before his specific portion was raised as the Great Sky Island, it cant be after other games as people are trying to suggest, because during Rauru’s past The OoT style temple of time does not exist on the plateau.

[@clocked0]

1. What was Skyloft before it was raised into the sky? 2. How come nobody actually knew what the master sword was in the past? The games have shown time and time again that legends persist. Even 10000 years into the future. Are you confident it HAS to be after Skyward Sword keeping those two things in mind and remembering the prestory to Skyward Sword?

[@megaman37456]

@@clocked0 I am because Ganondorf is a byproduct of Demises curse, the being known as "Ganondorf" cannot predate Demise's arrival and ultimate defeat.

[@clocked0]

@@megaman37456 He never predated the arrival. Demise was around wayyyy longer.

[@Rand0mPeon]

@@clocked0 You know he’s saying that Ganondorf can’t come before Demise’s _ultimate defeat and curse_ right? Saying that Demise existed before totk Ganondorf doesn’t actually address the point.

[@clocked0]

@@Rand0mPeon Why can't Ganondorf have come before the curse? I'd understand if this Ganondorf was the 5th reincarnation in the timeline, but he's literally THE progenitor. Think about it like this: Demise uses this Ganondorf as a vessel/lends him his power because he embodies his aspects the most, much like how Rauru and Sonia embodied Hylia's Light and Time aspects. Ganondorf is imprisoned. But because of the impact he had, at least half the sages are dead, two embodiments of Hylia are dead, Zelda is moving at 88mph so she can't interfere, Hyrule is in the perfect position to be conquered. There is almost nothing left to stop, say, an *evil and hatred incarnate* from taking matters into his own hands and conquering Hyrule himself. Would Demise really sit on his hands and do nothing with that opportunity? In Skyward Sword's past why did Demise manifest himself physically at all when that made him much more vulnerable for no good reason? There's your answer. To conquer a weakened Hyrule. Why did Hylia give herself a physical form? Because she literally had no other option. She was the only line of defense left apart from the spirit of the hero assuming they were not one of those who died to Ganondorf. "Okay but why was there then a bunch of Ganondorf reincarnations after Demise's curse?" ...Because Ganondorf embodied aspects of Demise THE most? Why would it have been literally anyone else? "Skyward Sword was the founding of Hyrule" No, people existed on the surface before the war between Hylia and Demise. She sent people to the skies in order to protect them. There is zero reason to believe Hyrule was only founded AFTER Skyward Sword when we know for a fact from the opener and from the ruins that we can observe on the surface itself that it was once populated.

[@abdullaalansari8061]

One problem that I think a lot of people have overlooked is the existence of the rito at the time Rauru and Sonia were alive, if I’m not mistaken the rito did not exist in any of the games that were before the timeline split so I don’t think the pre-story of totk takes place anywhere before the timeline split

[@duncanmacleod6274]

Not only do they not exist before the timeline split, there's a clearly earlier form of their species seen in Wind Waker. Unless you believe there's a really weird form of convergent evolution going on and they're actually *losing* their avian traits, the Rito (seen not to change whatsoever in the span between the TotK flashback and TotK/BotW era) had to have emerged at least well after Ocarina. Their ancestors had to have been around and biologically indistinguishable from Hylians around the OoT era.

[@napoleonvasquez5034]

Imagine a DLC with Kass Explaining Rito travelling time and that's why they made a Paradox as Zelda did. HSKFJD, and then you have all the Rito Issue explained

[@kennyholmes5196]

Counterpoint: We don't see Tabantha or Hebra in any game before Breath of the Wild. The Rito are just hiding out there, and the Rito of Wind Waker are their own thing.

[@kennyholmes5196]

@@napoleonvasquez5034 Alternatively, the Rito of Breath of the Wild's lineage just kept themselves hidden away in Tabantha and Hebra. After all, we don't see either of those regions in any game except BotW and TotK.

[@indominusblade3]

This theory was awfull and all over the place, the gerudo even say a male hasn’t been born for thousands of years, meaning totk can’t be first

[@mirai6824]

I personally believe that Rauru founded Hyrule some hundreds to thousands of years after wind waker and phantom hourglass where the water receded and revealed the original Hyrule but by then the people of the islands were all separated and not unified and that's when the zonai stepped in to help the people and finally Rauru descending from the sky islands to establish The Kingdom of Hyrule

[@DirtyBobBojangles]

No

[@fannietheflaky]

I love the abundance of theories floating around! This is a really fun one, because I too have been thinking of ways to place the past events of TotK before SS. After all, for Hylia to send people to the sky, there had to be some form of organized society of Hylians on the surface at that point. I always enjoyed your endeavours as a bird keeper and am always excited for new drops on this channel, now. Keep up the great work!

[@ZackL.R.]

Right or wrong it just a fun thing to speculate. It make you feel connecter to other in the weirdest ways.

[@tysondennis1016]

My theory is that enough time has passed for all three timelines to be quite similar, complete with Hyrule falling and Ganondorf reincarnating.

[@MelissaDougherty]

Okay here's my current best theory: Totk splinters off of Skyward Sword into its own timeline. This would explain most plot holes, maybe. Kinda. But this would be smart on Nintendo's part because they can make more games in this timeline. Not a perfect theory. But we have to think of something for this madness.

[@silversonic1]

Well we all knew Pre-Skyward Sword would have to be looked into eventually. Still, I feel there are a couple of things that need to be noted. 1. Hylia did reincarnate as Skyward Sword's Zelda, but Hylia's bloodline continued through Zelda's offspring. 2. Hylia is a Goddess(big G) in Breath of the Wild. Who do you think powers up Link through her statues? 3. If you see the Skyward Sword manga that's in Hyrule Hystoria as canon, then you see the history of Link. He is reincarnated to act as her and her bloodline's defender. 4. At least Hylia actually TRIES to take care of the world. Those other three decided to make that world AND leave behind access to their power AND don't bother checking in on things down the line. They're like "Nah, you've got this." 5. Hylia having a tie to the Zonai at the very least makes sense. Remember when for no explained reason Hylians were called humans? That was a weird era. 6. How many canonical different Ganondorfs does that make now?

[@gavinbrown216]

The answer for number six as far as I know is three: OoT, Four Swords Adventures, and TotK

[@abrahamcueva4487]

​@@gavinbrown216 four swords was ganon not ganondorf. Also it just be 2 ganondorfs. Cause oot, ww, and tp was established as the same ganondorf from oot

[@gavinbrown216]

@@abrahamcueva4487 it’s stated in FSA that the Ganon in that game only became Ganon after stealing the dark trident, so he was a Ganondorf (at least presumably). I also already accounted for the WW, TP, and OoT Ganondorfs being the same person.

[@abrahamcueva4487]

@@gavinbrown216 ah fair. I might of miss remember them mentioning that in the game

[@indominusblade3]

Not to mention the hurtle castle in totk never got destroyed to protect the seal, meaning it had to of been way later in the timeline cause by rule castle has been destroyed multiple times

[@JorgieLlanos]

This is actually the best explanation/interpretation of the timeline I've been so far. Thank you for sharing 👍

[@UnluckySuperstition]

Its a nice theroy, but i will say that as far as Demise having the scar on his head- i belive that it was stated in game that that was the point of impact that the sealing spike Hylia sealed him with was appearing as a scar when he revived.

[@AbsurdZeldaTheories]

Oh true it’s been a hot min since I played skyward sword and that may be a particular weak spot of finish without the tear so could still work

[@blakelandry9313]

@@AbsurdZeldaTheories and I don’t think demise and Gannon Dorf are the same person instead. Well, I would’ve rather that the story did to make things a little bit more clear. Maybe they should’ve revealed that this is the same Ganon Dorf from ocarina of time where they could’ve revealed that after Lincoln snitched on him at the end of the game, and he was imprisoned. He eventually got out and used all his magic, which then caused him to go into the past, or then, he reunited with his people, but after spotting the stone tears he wanted to power again which then now people know the story of tears of the kingdom and what happens to Ganon Dorf. I would’ve liked it that more instead of it being unclear of why this Gannon Dorf is here and I still wish we could’ve seen bore Gannon

[@blakelandry9313]

@@AbsurdZeldaTheories also, I’m not a fan of Gannon Dorf, does this in one game which most Zelda fans don’t think this game should be canon, which is 4 swords for some reason Nintendo believes it’s canon even though it has a lot of plot points that don’t make sense for the actual Canon story, because in the bad timeline, child timeline adult timeline once Gannon Dorf died. He never came back. He only came back in the fallen timeline because he kept getting brought back to life by servants, but that was it. He was never reincarnated

[@sboinkthelegday3892]

It occurred to me recently, that the parallels in the time placement of events in Hyrule Historia might have more signifigance to them than just their relative difference. What if, it's not Ganon who manifests in different forms and times, but he simply persists, while the WORLD manifests in different forms? I'm saying, all these times when Ganondorf is sealed or banished or so on, maybe he is just moving along to someplace else. Moving between the timelines. There's certain parallels in the timelines, like Wind Waker and Link's Awakening share elements of music and deities ruminating on the meaning of life, and Zelda 2 and BotW share a plot devices in an ancestral sleeping beauty and chanbara swordplay. Which suggests they could be the same events happening in parallel timelines. And it is often the case, that even when explicitly referred to, Ganon is not always present during these events. Let's say OoT has a canon ending in the Child timeline, and Ganondorf is executed. This is suggested to be the same execution where actually he ended up being sealed to Twilight Realm. Maybe the sealing itself functions in such a way, above all timelines, that it is CONSISTENT despite the timeline, and WILL happen. And for this reason as Adult timeline Ganon was sealed to Sacred Realm, it was the SAME sealing as into the Twilight Realm. The timeline that lead up to the sealing was reversed in OoT, but remained in place because Sacred realm is above any timeline. But Ganondorf didn't just APPEAR in Twilight realm, nor presuambly in Sacred Realm since stuff with Agahnim is not very explicit. He DID however appear in one world around that time: in Wind Waker, where he is acting strangely... relaxed. Dignified. Like Napoleon in the island of Elba. Ganondorf could be in Wind Waker because THIS IS HIM in exile to another realm. Seeping malice INTO LttP and TP at the very same time, as he was operating in WW. Why was he appearing to Zant as a golden spirit in TP? Because he was IN WIND WAKER, waiting to escape that exile and re-emerge in Twilight Princess. Why was he in LttP only working through Agahnim, and the bat form that turns into Ganon much like Dark Beast Ganon? Quite the same reason. He was playing Tetra for a fool just the same as Zelda in Ocarina of Time. The conclusion to WW and burying of ancient Hyrule might have saved the WW world, but it was actually the catalyst to send Ganondorf BACK to the other timelines, some might say, as more powerful than they could ever imagine. This would make Four Swords particularly a special case, where it's EXACTLY significant that Ganondorf was resurrecting in the SAME timeline he died in during TP, as the four Dark Links. Arguably the ONLY time he really ever did come back from the dead, not just tossed into another timeline.

[@mrbiscuits001]

Great theory!! But the way i see it is that Hyrule still existed for ages before totk’s pre story. It’s just that rauru and Sonia just unified the races again to make a “kingdom”. It’s my personal belief that totk’s pre story is what unifies the three timelines that spilt off from Oot.

[@ProfessorMike64]

My theory is that this game isn't about the founding of the ORIGINAL kingdom of Hyrule. It's about the founding of the CURRENT kingdom of Hyrule. This theory also includes Hyrule Warriors as canon thanks to MatPat. The unifying of the timelines basically created three different kingdoms with three different Royal Families all existing in the same timeline. It's a mess. So, with the help of the Zonai, they basically reorganized and re-founded the kingdom of Hyrule. Remember, in these flashbacks, the Rito already existed, and in their fully avian form instead of their more human-like form from Wind Waker. And the Rito can't exist before Wind Waker, so this has to take place after. Edit: Also, I just remembered that there was a Zora in those flashbacks as well, which didn't exist before Skyward Sword, because they're descendants of the Parella.

[@kennyholmes5196]

Actually, they can exist before Wind Waker. After all, we see neither hide nor hair of the Tabantha and Hebra regions until Breath of the Wild. The Rito just hide out there, undiscovered until some time before Breath of the Wild. In Wind Waker, the Zora turn into the Wind Waker's version of the Rito, which is why we don't see any Zora in that timeline. As for why they're called the Rito, it's a case of an old myth about people who can fly causing people to mistakenly identify the neo-zora as the Rito of old, despite how the two races look drastically different.

[@indominusblade3]

This is way more plausible then the video, his whole vid is just retconning the whole series, like how can the cycle of Ganon exist if the Gerudo in botw literally say they haven’t had a male in thousands of years meanin totk has to be at the end of the timeline

[@kennyholmes5196]

@@indominusblade3 Keep in mind that TotK's present and the flashbacks of TotK's memories take place on opposite sides of BotW. TotK's memories happen before even the Great Calamity of BotW, which is itself stated to have happened tens of thousands of years before BotW. Therefore, the "haven't had a male in thousands of years" phrase does not conflict with what we are shown in TotK's memories.

[@Lightfulsyn]

Can we just appreciate that Toby created an entirely new channel for Zelda

[@dracish123456789]

The tears of the kingdom pre history could also take place after all the other zelda games. A refounding of hyrule taking the name of an old kingdom.

[@annieandelsieofarendelle3294]

Mark Twain said it best when he said, 'history doesn't repeat but it tends to rhyme.'

[@rossjones8656]

@@annieandelsieofarendelle3294 I feel like this is literally what's happening.

[@annieandelsieofarendelle3294]

@@rossjones8656 Exactly. I think the rest of the timeline did happen but something happened to the old kingdom, maybe a conflict like the Hyrulean Civil War that instead of uniting the kingdom divided it into pieces, until Sonia and Rauru became king and queen.

[@Bulbmin1]

I doubt it I think the pre strory is after skyward sword but also as I watch the video I think this dude might be right

[@CatlordCalamity]

@@annieandelsieofarendelle3294 Maybe after this "division", the races lived in isolation for generations until they forgot about the original conflicts, which then leads to the unknowingly re-establishment of the Kingdom of Hyrule by Rauru and Sonia.

[@astralaegis6283]

This is honestly the only explanation I've heard so far that makes sense. I don't know how long it will last, but for now, this'll have to be my headcanon.

[@max_208]

I think the biggest indicator the whole zonai stuff happens before skyward sword is the fact the spirit of the hero just doesn't show up in the past, where as it would necessarily be reborn under demise's curse to fight Ganondorf otherwise

[@stormshadowoffire]

There's the ancient hero which if you get their armor from completing all shrines in ToTK, is a red haired zonai guy. this is the original hero depicted in the murals in BoTW. So this zonai hero had to appear at some point

[@Sp33dy101]

​@stormshadowoffire that red haired ancient hero shows up during the first time calamity ganon appeared 10k years ago which was shown in botw, presumably the imprisoning war to seal ganondorf happened much earlier then that

[@Sp33dy101]

It could possibly be a decent of rauru and Sonia since they appear to be part zonai and hylian

[@megaman37456]

But Ganondorf was created by Demise's curse, he literally cannot exist before Demise.

[@ghoulchan7525]

i mean Rauru himself could maybe also count as a Spirit of the Hero incarnation.

[@BakkerfeelingAdventures]

Interesting theory but Mineru her spirit is within the Pura pad. I have 2 other possible theories though as for time placement. BOTW & TOTK are in a new separate timeline split, provoked when Link returned to the past in Skyward Sword, creating 2 realities just as in OOT. The other more plausible one is that they take place in a unified timeline, so far into the future that nobody recalls most of the legends from the original 3 timelines. That explains why Rauru never heard of the name Link. Also remember how Hyrule was in a state of decay in the first and second Zelda games (Zelda I & II). So many years have past that the entire land had reset, for which from Rauru's viewpoint, they were the first to establish the kingdom. This also aligns with the Triforce being in possession of the royal family, as Zelda has the full Triforce as sacred power. You can see the 3 triangle symbols on her hand when she uses it in the last 2 games. At the end of Zelda II the Triforce was again complete and in possession of the Royal family, like it was before the Zelda I game. So it would follow up that story.

[@madebymelz7702]

I think that the pre-story is a retelling of Ocarina of Time, so many of the broad strokes are the same, a war between Hylians and Gerudo, Ganondorf swearing false fealty, Zelda through time travel knowing his lives, the sages, including one called Rauru. And for their differences? Well it’s a legend isn’t it? Legends have their different versions depending on who tells the story

[@Rand0mPeon]

I _hate_ the ‘old games are just inaccurate legends’ theory. It feels like shitting on the old lore I grew up with. Like, I _lived_ those adventures through Link. Don’t tell me it didn’t happen.

[@ghoulchan7525]

then where does the Hero of Time outfit in the depths come from? man that guy just can't catch a break.

[@Purexfallenxangel90]

I like to think BOTW and TOTK take place in an alternate and unified timelife off SS where only key things (sea salt, mention of the hero of time and twilight) can have a canonical line if you exclude some games. cause WW leads to ST which is a founding of new hyrule after a flood and has trains no Ganon and new tech. Alternately this means that the Zonai could have descended to help leading to the tears and no triforce due to the triforce pieces now following the spirit of the hero, the blood of hylia and the Incarnation of Demis(ganon/ganondorf) in at some point ganondor repeated history in the new world causing him to be sealed. also explains why the thought about the master sword would have changed back to the moniker "the sword which seals the darkness" as is described in WW.

[@Blue-fg8vt]

I hate the 'its a legend ' argument people make. It invalidates those past games. On the level of 'it's all a dream'

[@Awnos]

​@@Rand0mPeon yeah but Nintendo have flat out stated that's the case multiple times.

[@vizoxa]

Really living up to your name with this one

[@ZackL.R.]

actually, I still find that there must be a timeline split just after skyward sword. just that the game featuring the split does not exist yet.

[@AbsurdZeldaTheories]

I think Wily did a video on this recently. Could well be right ^_^

[@draconicstar1895]

Who knows? Maybe the time traveling shenanigans in Skyward Sword cause the timeline split. Look what happened in the other game featuring time travel ;-;

[@ZackL.R.]

@@AbsurdZeldaTheories just think there a lot of empty Space between skyward sword and ocarina of time. Would make sense to justify a soft reboot. It would also be technically True the statement of breath of Wild happening after Ocarina of time Time wise. Since the ganondorf we see is Just the reincarnation of demise but within the Wild timeline instead.

[@kotlolish]

​@@AbsurdZeldaTheories And I edited that one too! :D Strange how videos get "UNITED" huh?

[@drwily]

yup i covered this in a video, splits certainly exist but only when nintendo covers them do we see them

[@Bigsaltygamer]

I personally think that demise is a extremely concentrated phantom gannon, and used most of the tear's power to make him. So the imprisoning spike makes the wound in his head.

[@23itfollowsme23]

I love this. If I remember correctly, the reason the Hylians went to the Sky was because of the evil down below. It would explain why the time constructs existed in the desert. I need to go back and play/watch SS so I can be certain, but I feel like SS comes after Rauru and Sonia founded Hyrule. And Demise could essentially be the spirit/malice of Ganondorf manifested into form

[@diveblock2058]

it dosnt rly work because the plot of SS revolves around Hylia not being able to use the triforce to just nuke gannon and if shes half hylian and not directly created by din nayru and farore then there shouldnt be a issue

[@indominusblade3]

@@diveblock2058exactly it was stated that the trifurcation can’t be used by a real god, by using this vids theories logic then hylia wasn’t a real god meaning she would of been able to use the tri force to kill demise

[@diveblock2058]

@@indominusblade3 the only real arguement is zonai being gods....in which case dam we lowered the bar but then also why can gods be diluted like for instance in wind waker the king used the triforce however why is that possible if he has zonai blood in him now while yes its diluted why is that a loop hole like if a god lives 10000 generations his family can use the trifoce? why are din nayru and farore the all knowing all seeing all powerful gods respectively not able to account for a bloodline?

[@indominusblade3]

@@diveblock2058 exactly, this vid just contradicts everything that happened in SS, also the fact that they built hyrule castle above the seal of Ganon to keep it hidden yet in other games hyrule castle has been drestroyed meaning Ganon could of easily of been released way before the events of totk

[@diveblock2058]

@@indominusblade3 The thing this theory hinges off of is that everything we know about the legend of zelda games is just an incorrect re telling of the legend of zelda....which I hate because it invalidates everything any why even bother making a theory since totk could also be incorrect but whatever As for gannon it depends what timeline totk is in if I were to bet its probally adult timeline or its separate timeline which would make gannons thing not happen...but no way to know untill the next books

[@dracojohn7892]

3:50 a child that become orphan

[@jasperjavillo686]

Really like this theory. It also helps to tidy up the mess in the lore that was created from the mistranslation error caused by translating the title "Bringer of Demise" as "The Demon King Demise" and "The Curse of the Demon Tribe" as "The Curse of Demise". By making Demise another avatar of Ganondorf's evil, it makes him both a character and a force of nature with an epithet, tying together his two names across translations, and making his curse both one of his own creation and one of the Demon Tribe that Ganondorf created.

[@diveblock2058]

however it dosnt work because the entirety of ss revolves around Hylia not using the triforce to nuke everything

[@eddyhg8098]

I respect the honesty in putting "Absurd" word in the name of the channel because man you charrypicked only the stuff that validated your points while there is a world out there that contradict what you say

[@bryansoares8319]

Hey! I think the backstory takes place after skyward sword, while i dont always agree with the official timeline it does say that the Kingdom of hyrule is founded some eras after Skyward Sword And and interesting tidbit is that twilight princess mentions that the Oocca are the founders of Hyrule, tho this is mistranslated in engish as them creating hylian race I do wonder if there is a connection between the Oocca and Zonai since they share same lore, maybe oocca are cursed remnent of the zonai? The Minish are another sky race that came down ans brought down the force to the people of hyrule early too are they also connected? Are rhe secret stones force? Are minish just small zonai???

[@CatlordCalamity]

About your first paragraph, I've heard a theory somewhere regarding the connection name of the Divine Beasts to the TotK sages, with the Divine Beasts taking their name directly from these sages. Interestingly, if the TotK sages lived during the founding of Hyrule before OoT, then could that possibly mean the sages from OoT and Medli from WW got their name from the TotK sages? It's very interesting to me because we've been thinking the Divine Beasts were named after the OoT sages when really it's named after these sages who turned out to be an older group of sage.

[@RikkiJVelez]

I like this theory for the most part and generally what I believe. There’s a few details here and there that need to be ironed out like Mineru couldn’t have raised Sonia and Rauru’s daughter since her body expires shortly after the battle with Ganondorf. But I like the idea that all other Ganondorfs, Ganons, Calamity Ganons, and even Demise are all extensions of the original Ganondorf still sealed underground.

[@voidoflight2420]

I've heard with Tears of the Kingdom that the English translation muddied Ganondorf's motivations, and that in the other versions of the game Ganondorf's motive for wanting to change the world is mainly because he fostered a hatred for the Zonai for being propped up as gods. He believed Rauru didn't deserve to rule at all, and saw him nothing more than a coward with his hubris leading him to his kingdom's downfall. He believed that the world was full of cowards, and wanted to bring back the ancient world's sense of courage, believing himself more fit to rule than Rauru. This theory has a couple of inaccuracies. For starters, Demise's forehead scar is a mark left when he was the imprisoned. From the seal placed upon him. Then you have the fact that Mineru in TotK succumbed to her wounds from the Gloom, and needed to be put in the purah pad so that she didn't outright die. This would've left the child that Sonia and Rauru had to effectively have to be raised by other people. Ganondorf being the origin for the Demon King sounds cool, but it doesn't really work with what we know about Demise or about the sacred stones, and it makes it feel more like the Demon King is moreso Ganondorf harkening back to Demise's hatred outright rather than him being Demise. The game also states the Zonai were the ones who lifted Hyrule into the skies above. The only thing I can really think of is that the Zonai came down from the skies some time after Skyward Sword, given that Zelda in that game didn't seem like the type to found a kingdom, and her relative (Sonia) along with Rauru probably were the ones who founded the first kingdom of Hyrule. Even then though, this theory is kind of botched by the existence of Ganondorf, given the whole thing with "Gerudo males are born once every 100 years", which stopped the moment that Ganondorf became the calamity, at least according to Creating a Champion. So, this would mean that this Ganondorf couldn't have been the first incarnation. However, at the same time we also have contradictions in the form of geography. The Great Plateau was where the Zonai Temple of Time and the Zonai Hyrule castle were originally located, which we know eventually got moved to the skies above Hyrule itself. Then we see that the Great Plateau in BotW has ruins similar to Ocarina of Time's Hyrule, and is one for one a recreation of that, implying Ocarina of Time happened at one point or another. The confusing part is the fact that how can Ganondorf from Ocarina exist, if the other Ganondorf was sealed away under what eventually became Hyrule Castle in BotW? A new incarnation hadn't been born since that sealing in TotK, so it just throws everything off. We know the Hyrule that Rauru and Sonia founded can't just be a "New Hyrule" situation either, since the game would've said something about that.

[@-Zechariot]

For the thing about 2 Ganondorfs existing, it's not impossible and it has actually happened already once before, with Link. Link, the reincarnation of the SPIRIT of the Hero, in Twilight princess, meets one of his past Reincarnations, the hero of time, in real time as a SPIRIT somehow, meaning these two are BOTH the reincarnation of the spirit of the hero at the same exact time. I know that in general, reincarnations exist as the singular thing being recycled, so how can it be recycled into something new yet what it used to be still exist? That would usually create a paradox, but this is nothing new in Japanese anime and video game stories. Reincarnations of things meet and greet and exist all the time in various media. Another example of this is in Naruto. Naruto and Sasuke are the reincarnations of Indra and Asura, yet during the war, Madara and Hashirama, who are ALSO reincarnations of the two, exist simultaneously, one even fully being alive. So it isn't at all impossible for there to be 2 incarnations of Ganondorf existing at the same time. One, because it has already happened before in his own franchise, and two because it's not uncommon for these things to happen in fiction.

[@diveblock2058]

it would also have to imply that Hylia wasnt created by din nayru and farore which then would make no sense why she couldnt use the triforce if she was half human

[@voidoflight2420]

@@diveblock2058 Exactly. She wasn't able to use the triforce because she was a goddess.

[@voidoflight2420]

@@-Zechariot The Hero's Shade in Twilight Princess is a ghost of The Hero of Time. He already died. The hero's spirit also works differently from the standard reincarnation that we know Ganondorf possesses. With the Hero's spirit, it seems to be able to choose a host without having to be directly related. In the case of the Wind Waker, there is no hero until that Link does the trial of the Gods, which ends up proving his own worth as a hero. Twilight Princess Link inherits the Hero's spirit, but he's his own person despite this. With Ganondorf, it just simply seems like normal reincarnation. A male Gerudo isn't born whilst a Ganondorf already exists in the first place.

[@diveblock2058]

@@voidoflight2420 ye it just kinda disregards the plot of skyward sword if hylia was just a half god (however it would imply the godesses just made the triforce and left it unprotected which is funny)

[@bobmasters9871]

I didn't realize you had a new channel, found this by accident and immediately subbed

[@TomskyB]

My interpretation of the Imprisoning War as depicted in Tears of the Kingdom is that it seems likely that it's another version of the events displayed in Ocarina of Time. Neither are necessarily more correct or accurate to the "real" events, but rather, as both Tears of the Kingdom and Ocarina of Time are "legends" then both of them will inevitably have different versions of events in regards to the sealing of the Demon King Ganondorf. A lot of the plot points of TotK's Imprisoning War are strangely similar to Ocarina of Time in such a way that they seem almost parallel in a sense. In particular, this is very obvious in Memory 7 where Ganondorf is swearing fealty to Rauru, its very obviously a direct parallel to the scene in Ocarina of Time where you're peeking into the window with Zelda. Also, I don't think Mineru could've possibly looked after Rauru and Sonia's child, her body dies not long after the fight with Ganondorf and her spirit is placed inside the Purah Pad. She's not really able to look after anything in that sense.

[@Crichjo32]

Exactly. People forget the series is called 'THE legend of Zelda'. The 'the' in the title is important, because it implies there is only one legend. Now legends much like our own reality, are always changing and there are different versions of the same story as they are passed down from generation to generation. What I'm saying with this, is that each Zelda game is canon but also not canon. SS is a prequel to both OoT and ToTK, both games depict similar events yet neither one is the one true version - that is up to us to decide.

[@DavyCDiamondback]

I agree with the Legend thing, but there's no hint of the hero of time in the imprisoning war. Maybe this is a timeline where there was no hero? I don't know, it's all so cloudy

[@galaxyplatinum5533]

I'm so happy that you made this video, it's the theory that makes the most sense imo

[@Xyoth]

What if Demise was his first blight? An entity of malice that embodied his spirit. The idea that he can’t just resurrect infinitely & is just using his old/true body as a conduit to reincarnate himself given enough time sounds more interesting than ‘he made a last moment curse, that doesn’t wear off, unlike all the seals he’s been put under’ Or maybe each incarnation was at their core Ganondorf, but each time he came back, they were more individualistic & less recognisable. • Demise being the pure demon, beyond the man he “evolved” from. • Dragmire looking similar to Ganondorf, but different. • The Blue Boar (Four swords adventure) wasn’t born a boar, but either way, he’s unrecognisable. • The Calamity & its blights are just mishmash’s of play-dough.

[@magicrealms]

There is a way, WAY simpler explanation, sometime after the games in the canon timeline, Hyrule is destroyed. Then the zonai come down from the sky, raru eventually makes a new Hyrule kingdom (something like this happens in spirit tracks). And that's how BOTW and TOTK happen.

[@firebirdfiction7590]

This is the closest to my theory anyone else has come yet. But I do see issues... 1. Mineru is dying and we see her soul in the Purah Pad just before Zelda eats her secret stone. So she couldn't have raised Rauru and Sonia's child. 2. There is a Statue of Hylia in the temple of time in the sky which doesn't fit with Hylia being Rauru and Sonia's child. Anyway, I doubt you'll like my theory since you don't like timeline splits but it is definitely an absurd theory 😂 My theory is that BotW and TotK take place in a timeline that split before Skyward Sword... More importantly I think Zelda goes back to a point in time before Skyward Sword and we actually see the point of divergence in the memories. It is just after Sonia is killed... Rauru lunges at Demon King Ganondorf with his third eye opened. If Zelda hadn't intervened he would probably have been killed and there would have been no one to seal Ganondorf... which leads me to my first statement... Skyward Sword's Demise is the original Ganondorf. His curse was never a curse per se... it was a statement of fact because every Gerudo male is Ganondorf reborn so he knew he would be back. Second statement: Sonia is a Shekiah ... her hair and colouring are similar to Skyward Sword's Impa and they use similar pale skin paint. I suspect the Shekiah started using the eye and tear symbol (which is surely the Zonai third eye) after Rauru's death/sacrifice (depending on timeline) and note impa in skyward sword is already using it which is part of why I am sure these memories are from before Skyward Sword. Prior to serving the royal family the Sheikah served Hylia and given her intricate body paint and Time powers I think Sonia may have been her high priestess (but this is just surmise based on my belief that Hylia is the Goddess of Time) So in the original timeline Rauru dies and with no one able to stop him Hylia has to step on sealing him herself and casting off her divinity to be reborn as Skyward Sword Zelda... who is also a descendant of Rauru and Sonia and thus has Rauru's light powers on top of her Hylia powers... important for holding Demise's seal until Link can kill him. And once he does (twice no less) He and Zelda name their new land after the mythical surface home of her ancestors... Hyrule. In the new timeline Rauru seals Ganondorf, Hylia never gives up her divinity and instead of the events we know we get Calamities where some of Ganondorf's power leaks and forms Calamity Ganon only to be pushed back when the Princess of the time reinforces her ancestor's seal. As to why this new timeline has so many references to the other three timelines... I'm not sure... except before the botw/totk timeline existed someone must have time travelled in order for Rauru not to die and it can't have been totk zelda because if this were a stable time loop a timeline where Rauru died could not exist. So maybe whoever that was carried tales and then when Zelda jumped back she overwriote them but also carried the tales she'd heard... Or... and I can't take credit for this bit since it is me riffing of someone else's video ("How tears of the kingdom fixes Zelda's timeline" by Thinking at Max Volume) because while I don't agree with their timeline placement the video introduced to a term from Elder Scrolls lore "Dragon Break"... and yes this could totally be such a thing (and the Zelda Team did say they had taken inspiration from Elder Scrolls). And it is not without precedent in Zelda as a timeline merger is the only way to explain the temporal mind#$%@ that is the ending of Skyward Sword (and a timeline merger there also explains how the freaking Goddess Sword can be in TotK - it is an artifact created by the timelines merging... because in the timeline where Demise dies in the past it never needs to be drawn so it remains in its chamber and when the timelines merge *boom* it now exists alongside the Master sword) So that is my theory... absurd enough?

[@AbsurdZeldaTheories]

I can’t reply to all the point jt yes totally absurd. And actually the statue of Hylia doenst appear in the flashbacks ^_^

[@firebirdfiction7590]

@@AbsurdZeldaTheories excellent... all the best theories are absurd

[@Galamoth06]

But how exactly do timelines "merge" back together? Like, the actual mechanism behind three separate, linear timelines with different starting conditions merging back into one, which is virtually impossible without some kind of divine intervention or other supernatural occurrence. Because a Dragon break isn't really an explanation so much as just another name for a timeline merger.

[@firebirdfiction7590]

@@Galamoth06 a good question. You'd have to ask the developers about the mechanics they envision (if any - it is just a theory after all), but if Bethesda can do it with the Elder Scrolls then I see no reason that Nintendo can't do it with Zelda if they want. If I had to hazard a guess I'd point the finger directly at the goddess of time mentioned in Majora's Mask and who may or may not be Hylia.

[@firebirdfiction7590]

@@Galamoth06 addendum I quite agree that dragon break is just a term for a timeline merger... or really for the period between the split and the merger. But I did just have an idea... if as some people say BotW is an inevitable outcome in all time lines (which I have never liked but okay) then so must be the start of TotK... so imagine three Zeldas who are substantially the same person and who have weird time powers all arriving at the exact same point in space and time before the timeline split and becoming one (because weird time powers) and the timeline merges with them...

[@blackattack1840]

Mineru must've found it very difficult to raise Hylia as a ghost. But I guess that's what the super nice constructs were for. Would love to see a game where you play as Hylia and forge her sword and beat demise and all that. A twist on the "YOU PLAY AS ZELDA!"

[@blackattack1840]

But they'll probably have us play as the original chosen hero

[@xenocross6597]

7:59 But Hylia was created by the golden goddesses making this theory entirely invalid

[@Gzilla313]

Considering that the three elemental dragons are references to the Golden Goddesses, what if the Golden Goddesses were Zonai who swallowed Secret Stones to become the dragons, and that's how Hylia is born as Rauru and Sonia's heir after their deaths?

[@ShadowEclipex]

My personal theory for the sequence of events are: Skyward Sword past (guess you do time-travel in SS)- TotK Past - Skwyward Sword present - rest of the official timeline - TotK Present That way Demise's curse can still be in effect for all of Tears of the Kingdom and Demon King Ganondorf is still an incarnation of Demise and Zelda being a incarnation of Hylia. Also would explain why the Hylians ascended to Skyloft, using the remnants of Zonai tech which they had access to. It also explains why no Master Sword exists in TotK's past, because SS Link forged the Master Sword, brought it to the past to slay Demise, then kept it with him when he went to SS's Present. Complicated sure, but it is the cleanest way I can see it working.

[@Luigi_Luigi2401]

My only problem with this theory is that in the Japanese version whenever you fight kohga underground he tells you that ganondorf will bring demise back on this world but they changed it to 'end' in the English version so maybe demise was present before ganondorf and demise was able to reincarnated as ganondorf again multiple times throughout the games but the original ganondorf was the strongest one it all doesn't make sense 😭 unless that the names are wrong and in all these legends the character's names are given by their most known ancestors or descendants there is also the possibility that these characters names are given to them inspired by the old legends but maybe ganondorf just names himself ganondorf because he sees himself as a successor to the original ganondorf, I think the only problem right now with the timeline is who is who😂

[@dardo105]

I don't know that this is a BKT channel, the video pop in YT. And I was thinking, I know that voice. Great to hear you again. Great video

[@ratking6390]

Following Toby’s timeline, my theory is that after phantom hourglass, Link and Tetra find a new continent and found new hyrule. Spirit tracks happens and after thousands of years the great sea recedes and the land of hyrule is no longer flooded. The Zonai emerge and found a new kingdom of hyrule (different than the new hyrule in spirit tracks). After all of this we get the memories of TOTK. I’m open for criticism in the replies.

[@Coroplocs-Chameleon]

Sounds good, but I think it takes place in the downfall timeline. As apparently in Zelda 1 and 2, the population of hyrule is near extinction. My theory is that very few hylians survive and the zonai (unmentioned before) then descend down.

[@adammorin2955]

Both are good theories but I personally believe that breathe of the wild and tears of the kingdom are in a timeline where all three merged. This gave nintendo more freedom to express stories and not follow any timeline placement from fans. This also feels like a reset on gannon as the only person that is the villain as they probably want to change things up. Both games have references to all three timelines and on top of that locations in all three as well.

[@kevinellis8017]

I've seen and read a lot of peoples Timeline theories and the thing is, ALL of them make sense. All of them could work, but they also have discrepancies against them. Hell, even TotK being a sequel to BotW contradicts/retcons itself. A lot of lore from BotW isn't even mentioned in TotK. So I say your theory works and that's all that matters. We can write essays on the theories and contradictions all day. I'm of the mind that I'm for the "Reboot/Vague/New" timeline where it doesn't even connect to SS. Staying separate from the rest of the games make the lore WAAAAY easier to digest for new fans, allow the developers to focus on gameplay (which they openly admit all the time) over the lore. That and BotW/TotK use Easter Eggs for fans in names, places, armors, skins, lore. Or just mess with people with name drops. I also think keeping it ambiguous and not tied to any set timeline allows us fans to make our own connections. Eiiji Aonuma making the Timeline public divided fans so I don't think he'll openly make the new games set to a Timeline any time soon.

[@theakiwar9118]

Spirit Tracks happens exactly 100 years after WW. Nico even is still alive and talks about Tetra and WW Link

[@adammorin2955]

I feel like many people dont see hyrule warriors and hyrule warriors 2 as cannon but it is to the timeline. because in hyrule warriors itself references everything in the timeline and leads up to breathe of the wild.

[@jexthegamer]

This is how I understood the story too after finishing The Tears of the Kingdom. Well done! It is the first in the timeline through the flashbacks and the last (so far) through the gameplay. I can't wait for the "prequel" to this new trilogy -- I'm hoping it will focus on the "Ancient Hero" who fought Calamity Ganon thousands of years before Breath of the Wild. That should connect this trilogy nicely with the three timelines we have so far in the Zelda history.

[@texben123]

Also, all three of the dragons are actually the goddesses because they eat their tears that they made and became the three dragons in the sky. Zelda did the same thing. Which proves that the goddesses are actually Zonai them being dragons means they used a tear to transform . They probably did this because they were probably getting pretty old and did it to live forever. That and to look over Hyrule forever too. My theory is Zonai can live for thousands of years, and the goddesses of been around for a very long time since the beginning of the entire world meaning they’re ancient which is why they turned himself into dragons cause they knew they were gonna die of old age.

[@kretisme]

I doubt it just because of the context of them makeing the triforce wich is the foundation of the world the zonai although technology advanced and having power are very reliant on the world actually existing I can definitely believe the dragons are zonai consuming there gems as for something to be forbidden means someone did so already

[@texben123]

@@kretisme I have to disagree, Zelda is living proof, that the goddesses turned them selves into dragons. The Zonai were worship like gods and have advanced technology. The Triforce and the sacred stones are their most advanced technology they have. The goddesses, are Zonai because it explains their God, like power, because the goddesses could be the oldest Zonai because they’ve been around since the beginning of the entire world of Hyrule. Meaning, they’re ancient so them eating their sacred stones and turn them selves into dragons makes sense. Their barely worshiped It’s because they disappeared and became dragons. Also, the Triforce will still work, even though they turned themselves into dragons. The Triforce is a very very advanced technology that the Goddesses made that will still work, even if they’re gone . Zonai must have a very long life span, I’m just gonna assume that the goddesses are in their billions. And the rest of the Zonai can live for thousands of years. Because remember the Triforce can manipulate reality, and create an entire world. So the Goddesses could extending, their lifespan, would not be surprising.

[@texben123]

@@kretisme Nintendo, turning the goddesses into dragons with make them more money? Because Gods actually can transform into dragons some of them. That and Nintendo can make plushy’s of all three dragon goddesses. Merchandise or even a spin off game. If they want it to like the origin of the goddesses, there’s a lot of things they can do with the Dragon Goddesses.

[@kretisme]

@@texben123 they would make money off of dragon zelda merch anyway with or without any goddess conecton it matters very little to this yes in some series a god can be a dragon but not within existing zeldalore even with things being as shaky lore ways a commen thread being dragons are below goddesses hylia who is below the three goddesses who have acted a few times within the world but for the most part the remain neutral and the two suspected times they interfere are linked suspected times being ganondorf getting the triforce of power in tp and the flood in ww both being potentially reactions to zelda of that time sending link back to his childhood messing with the timeline in a way she is not meant to if this is the case it would mean they are out side of the flow of time and not adherent to it effects zelda turning into the dragon means very little as she is a descendent of the mortal incarnation of the goddess hylia she became a mortal because a godess cannot use the triforce so everyone after is not a god or godess also I could be mistaken on this one my numbskulls are not coming up with anything but the zonai themselves never reference the triforce only there gems the the goddesses being forgotten is simple it's easy to forget gods who do nothing most of the time they rember hylya because she was actually around them plus her being (although in mortal incarnation) part of the royal bloodline giving them the right to rule as for people worshipping the zonai yes they may have but it doesn't mean much when you come across people who don't understand the tech or your abilitys of course they would see them as divinity especially if the only other person to have power like that is presumably a descendent of hylia's mortal incarnation and we know that they had the gems that boosted there power further so probably looked more divine than her it has nothing to do with the discussion but hyrule is a place not the whole world

[@kretisme]

@@texben123 sorry for the word vomit lol I have never been good at grammar and splitting up what I type

[@Mike-dx5jc]

After playing ToTK I was also thinking of Sonia/Rauru child theory and after watching your video it helped me put together my own theory using elements from your vid. I havent played every Zelda Game nor do I know every lore detail of the Zelda timeline so forgive me if I get something wrong: -In the Beginning the 3 Gods create the world, their first real test being the Zonai. They look after the Zonai, teaching them how to be at peace, educate them and overall guide them to prosperity. Eventually the Gods decide to create other Races (Goron/Zora/ Hylians etc.) and bestow the responsibilities of guiding them to the Zonai. To help the Zonai they give them multiple Secret Stones and are told to give them to the other races once they are able to achieve peace and harmony (which is why there are more than one stone). The Gods leave and the Zonai separate into different groups to go and help guide their chosen race towards peace with the other races. Over time and being separated the Zonai population begin to dwindle eventually leaving Rauru and Minuru as the last of the Zonai. Even though the other races are getting closer to peace they still arent at the point where Rauru is comfortable with giving out secret stones to them, except for his wife queen Sonia the representative of the Hylian race, who they have a child with (More on that later). -Zelda appears from the past. -Ganon begins his first attempts at conquest and learns of the existence of the secret stones through a fight with Rauru in which Future Zelda is also present (we see this memory in the game), the secret stones become his new target for power. After the death of Sonia, Rauru is forced to give the secret stones to the other races in a last attempt to stop Ganon. They Fail and Rauru seals Ganon away. -Zelda becomes the light dragon, and Minuru zows to help Zelda in the future, it is at this time or possibly during past interactions with Zelda that she begins looking at ways to create something similar to the master sword eventually creating what would become the master sword in Skyward Sword. Even before the fight with Ganon Minuru was already looking at ways to transfer her soul to live longer. After the fight Her body was dying from her wounds but she still needed to keep her brothers child safe, so she begins to artificially replace her body parts with zonai constructs to extend her shortened lifespan however long she could and to give her more time to figure out how to transfer her soul. All at the same time raising/teaching Rauru/Sonai's child whos named Hylia. Due to being half Zonai/Half Hylian Hylia grows faster than a Zonai but still slower than a normal being (think Grogu from Star Wars), having been taught by Minuru she learns of "the demon King", and how "Zelda" will eventually come from the future to stop him. Minuru finally learns how to transfer her soul and goes underground to await Link in the future, leaving behind Hylia and the secret stones. -With her knowledge of Zonai Tech and of some future events to happen Hylia does her best to bring about peace while she waits for "Zelda". This leads to the inhabitants on the surface to "believe" she is a god. Hylia combines the secret stones to create the triforce as a way to help her maintain peace and the idea she was chosen by the 3 original gods to keep watch over the land. (A single stone can amplify a persons natural ability, but multiple stones fused together can have enough power to make any wish come true) Sometime later she also has a child with Zonai Blood (More on this later) -Ganon's spirit separates from his body and becomes Demise the "Demon King". In Hylia's eyes THIS was the "Demon King" Minuru told her about, and how it was "Zelda" from the future who had to defeat him not HER. In a battle against Demise Hylia is hurt badly. She decides NOT to use the triforce to DESTROY Demise as this would interfere with future events via the butterfly effect which she could have learned as a possibility from Minuru when learning about future zelda. But she stills needs to keep the Hylians safe to ensure "Zelda" is born so she sends them to the skies and seals away Demise. Before dying she tasks her child with keeping watch over the surface to help maintain peace as much as possible. -In Skyward Sword a "Zelda" is born, like sonia she has latent abilities to control time, but not a lot. When Zelda was shown Hylia's memories (from her accidental use of time manipulation boosted by sacred energy from the springs) she confused them as her own and believed she was the reincarnation of Hylia and because she had latent time control abilities like Hylia those around her believed it as well. What Demise believed he absorbed to break free from his monster form wasn't actually the spirit of a goddess, but really the essence of time manipulation Zelda innately had, which reverted his physical body too before he was imprisoned. -Skyward Sword ends with Link and Zelda killing Demise and going to the surface and founding the Kingdom of Hyrule starting the "Royal" blood line (Royal in name only) -Generations later a form of Ganon appears again but this time Zelda's descendent's time manipulation powers aren't strong enough alone. This is when a Zonai descendent of Hylias child, comes and helps defeat this form of Ganon using his sacred abilities passed down from Sonia/Rauru. (The Zonai age much slower than a normal Hylian so while many generations have passed since Skyward Sword Link/Zelda only a couple of descendents came after Hylia's child so they still retain their mostly Zonai appearance. (this is NOT to be confused with the war shown in BoTW) THIS Zonai appearance is what the armor USED by the hero, from the legend told in BoTW, is based off of. -After this war that the Zonai hero took part in, he marries the princess and they have a child, thus introducing Sonia/Rauru sacred powers/blood into the Zelda family linage.

[@DavidRPitt]

The Hero's Aspect armour indicates that the last hero of Hyrule, the one in the tapestry, was part Zonai. TotK is a retcon. It's even a retcon of BotW's references to previous Zelda games, like the Ranch Ruins, the old Castle Town ruins on the Great Plateau, the story of Ruto on the Zora history tablets (which is implied to be a legend in Sidon's re-writing of it in TotK), and all of the specific references in the Subdued Ceremony memory. None of these seem to be canon anymore, just 'legend'. That's why I reckon TotK is more a soft remake than a sequel.

[@juice2307]

Nah, TotK and BotW both reference Skyward Sword at the very least. It’s more likely that in the wide expanse of time, there have been multiple Ganondorfs and multiple risings and fallings of Hyrule.

[@Sci_X1]

Nintendo is not kind enough to retcon or reboot the Zelda timeline we’re suffering until Nintendo themselves updates the timeline

[@ein123456789]

Nice, we came to pretty much the same conclusions. Details differ but I’m glad someone else was able to put it together

[@the1384]

Don't forget there should be a Timeline where Zelda never Time Traveled in ToK. Ganondorf killed Rauru and took his Sacred Stone. Sonia sacrificed her Sacred Stone to destory Ganondorfs. That caused him heavy Damage, a scar on his Forehead and Ganondorf also started to lose his Mind that Transformed him into that Demise Beast Form only remembering that he is the Demon King. Demise crawled under the Earth and started to gather Malice to one Day strike again. I believe in that stalemate Sonia gave Birth to Hylia the Last legitimate owner of a Sacred Tear. The Last 3 where forged into the Triforce.

[@Johnjohnson2695]

Took me a few minutes to realise this really is BKT. Instant subscribe

[@GothKazu]

this theory is the only one that makes sense, and im glad you made it. This combined with the theory that BOTW is the end of ALL timelines, which converge at some point prior, is what im going to stick to, until given official word otherwise.

[@chrisg4575]

What about the original Calamity Ganon? Being as the reward for completing all shrines is the Ancient Hero set, which resembles a zonai warrior who fought the Calamity, where does the first Calamity take place in the timeline? Only thing I can think of that works with this theory is that Sonia and Rauru had a zonai child who fought the Calamity, and his descendant is Hylia. But that means that the first Calamity takes place before Demise.

[@zetenyvarga7428]

This video calmed me down about this topic. Thx💫

[@tabletop963]

I was thinking almost thist exact same thing. Right on brother. Thanks for putting in video form.

[@justinthyme5263]

I literally did the ending of ToTK yesterday so the timing of this vid couldn’t have been better for me 😂 also you make spectacular videos

[@lonk7596]

"Explain where the divine beasts went with actual in-game text and without headcanon" challenge impossible difficulty

[@mrman8444]

at first, i wasnt sure, but after watching the whole video, if it was in my power, id say this is the cannon placement of everything, so thanks for no more confusion about all that

[@devantediamond1041]

WAS SO EXCITED TO HEAR YOU ON ANOTHER CHANNEL i hadn't been watching when you talked about it!!! I like to think the pre-story of totk happens after Skyward sword for the fact demise clearly went against Hylia in skyward swords lore not Zelda, plus it would make sense that this could be demises very first reincarnation after skyward sword, also if Gerudo and many others didn't exist until after skyward swords ending this theory would work but pre skyward sword lore Gerudo people didn't exist in that game until a few generations after Gerudo and many others didn't exist until after skyward swords ending

[@slateoffate9812]

1:24 Simple, everyone in the fandom has forgotten about New Hyrule from Spirit Tracks. Zonai Hyrule isn't the same Hyrule from previous games. It's... New New New New New Hyrule, but with the "News" cut out because at that point it's just redundant.

[@aaronjosephs2560]

I finally finished the game, really took my time with it. I watched a half dozen timeline theories, and i was bewildered that none of them were saying my personal theory, which is very very close to exactly this video.

[@AbsurdZeldaTheories]

Wooooooo ty ty ^_^

[@davidecarucci1073]

Personally i think totk happens in-between botw and the last game, so much time passed we dont know if hyrule from botw is the same from ss. Plus the fact that there are some parallels with oot might suggest that the end of the timeline split.

[@Bagel_B0y]

Interesting theory I'm glad I managed to stumble upon this channel The more Toby the merrier, as the saying goes

[@Punjabi_dude]

Wow. This works. Subscribed!

[@Polar1s2]

Now that I see demon king Ganondorf, he does resemble Demise.

[@DragonSire]

best explanation I have heard so far

[@mrbait]

This is almost exactly what I thought. The fact during an interview the developers implied the logo would give away the game tells me it’s the first and he last in the series. Makes 100% sense that every iteration of Ganondorf comes from the original and that Demise came from underground (where sealed Ganondorf is). I think in the future they will make other games in between Tears of the Kingdom as I think it is the definitive first and last game in the series.

[@GameEssays]

There's a Hylia statue in the zonai temple of time. That alone tells me it's after Skyward Sword.

[@Hertaspacestation6980]

My theory is that simce Botw is set in the end of all the timeline, maybe in the timeline comnection, Hyrule was gone like in Wind Waker and a new kimgdom that is also called Hyrule was established by Rauru. The Ganondorf is a new reincarnation and this time is closer to Demise since Demise's will modify this Ganondorf.

[@MagusAgrippa8]

Ah the ultimate question. To watch because I really enjoy Toby's take on these things and be heavily spoiled, or wait to play more before watching so I have my own experiences to draw on while examining his ideas...

[@1800mexicano]

You have and entire Pokemon channel where you use your own theories to play off of and craft other theories, so I can't wait to see what you make this channel

[@kaysarilyas4430]

I swear I thought you sounded like birdkeepertoby and then I checked and this is a new channel

[@emiacuna8821]

It's so tempting, i don't want to be spoiled as i haven't finished the game. But I really want dig into this. i'm saving it for later.

[@monsterno.definablenever.3484]

It makes perfect sense to me. Demon King Ganondorf was just one of the first reincarnations of him, born of the gerudo just like King Of Evil Ganondorf later would be. He was sealed by raurua, the time-travelled master sword was sealed in Zelda, Sonia's child raised by Either royal attenders or the Sages.

[@ededdynedd]

The X scar on Demise is not from a "tear," it's literally because he was sealed with a giant freakin stone jammed into his forhead. This is the problem with A LOT of Zelda "theorists." They start of with good premises and evidence, and then they completely misinterpret or twist a detail with a glaring and very clear explanation for one stripped of that context entirely just to fit their narrative. "I want that to be a tear scar, so I'm just gonna decide that. Oh that stone lock was also there in the same game? Oh that's clearly irrelevant, let's make sure to omit that."

[@sethporter9066]

Oh my god, someone *finally* put these thoughts racing around my head in order! I was thinking something similar but was running circles on the whole Demise bit

[@eziowayne]

This is a great, thoughtful theory! Nicely done!

[@sslender07]

I like this theory, but I personally prefer the one that says skyward sword happened then a bunch of other games happened. Eventually that kingdom of Hyrule falls and Rauru and Sonia only THINK they’re founding the kingdom when they’re actually refounding it without knowing that it existed before. After all, how would Sonia even have her time powers if she was just a regular Hylian? She’d have to have descended from another Zelda like oot Zelda to have those.

[@thelegendofzegend1410]

The thing I don't see anyone talking about (and there is no way to explain it whatsoever, as far as I can tell) is the Rito. They don't exist in the timeline until Wind Waker, and they never existed alongside the Zora until Breath of the Wild which can only happen because it's a timeline combination. If they existed in the creation era, then where did they go? And how did the Zora evolve back into them in Wind Waker? Also, if all of the classic Zelda races existed before Skyward Sword, why are all of them except the Gorons missing in that game? TL;DR: The biggest problem with this theory (and any timeline theory I've found) is the implications it has on the evolution of Hyrule's races.

[@commonphrasegames]

Just put on a random video to fall asleep to, laying there thinking "damn this guy sounds a lot like Bird Keeper Toby".

[@dubbicakes]

This theory is so much cleaner than Skyward Sword being the first in the timeline. I refuse to believe the current standing theory that Hyrule existed for thousands of years, fell, faded into nothing, and then Rauru and Sonia founded a second kingdom also somehow named Hyrule, also worshipping a goddess named Hylia, and started over. Rauru and Sonia believe they are the first to establish Hyrule in its entirety as evident from talking to Zelda. Also, for demi gods like the Zonai to exist while an ancient evil, and multiple generations of Link's and Zelda's fight for thousands of years and then come down having no knowledge of it whatsoever is strange, especially if the old Hyrule existed and there are countless stories of these battles all over the kingdom. Also also, you're probably onto something about Hylia, Rauru, and Sonia's relationship because she can use their Light of Blessings to grant the player life.

[@siroctopus2652]

As cool as this theory is I can't shake the fact that (while it might just be a nitpick) the Hyrule Rauru sees (at least on the ground) is more or less the exact same Hyrule that Link sees. Following the timeline in this video Hyrule has to change shape and size for every single LoZ we see throughout the series and then return to the exact same land with the exact same castle, and (almost) the exact same great plateau. Every other part of this theory is bang on and it's amazing how much you've been able to put the puzzle pieces together. But I think the far more likely scenario is that Rauru is in fact the first king of Hyrule... THIS Hyrule, much the same as the "new" Hyrule that we see in Spirit Tracks which was founded by the Hero of winds and Tetra (iirc).

[@mayanightstar]

Finally! A voice of reason!!!!

[@adekmommo]

There also could be a possibility that Ganondorf was able to go back to his demon king form here with both tje tear and his spirit that could've been released when the Master sword shattered at the beggining of totk since, you know sealed demise and all that but yeah this makes sense altough it is obvious that they didn't think of this earliier but the theory adds up. Great Job my friend.

[@redbirdtribe]

Wouldn't it make more sense for Hyrule to be destroyed at some point and then the new first king of Hyrule would be created because it's already established that this is way way way far in the future compared to the other timeline. So all the events would still stay in order. Meaning the past of tears of the Kingdom takes place before breath of the wild obviously, but after all the other games

[@timewarrior7298]

Omg i just had a simular theory, today and came across this video, glad im not the only one to think of this.

[@mackerel6099]

Interesting thoughts. One minor aspect I appreciate is your portrayal of the Zonai, for now there are some ppl that are building theories around the idea that the Zonai are hiding something and are secretly nefarious, which is just absurd? It contradicts their characterization entirely of having attained enlightenment, and sharing the gifts of that enlightenment with the denizens of Hyrule. As you simply put it: they are gods and want for nothing. Also really love your speculation on the ancestry of Zelda and the descendants of Rautu and Sonia

[@franciscoguinledebarros4429]

This theory makes a lot of sense, putting things into perspective on how loose some definitions are (my favorite bit is how Demise rose from the Ganondorf Seal), HOWEVER What is the placement of the Sheika Calamity? More importantly, the Ancient Hero? From the way the armor set looks (and how NPCs confirm this is the appearance of the ancient hero), this wielder of the master sword was Zonai (no, its not Rauru, maybe there was no master sword but a Zonai and Sheika Tech clearly co-existed 10.000 yrs before BOTW) My first, simplest and honestly kinda lame thought is that there was simply a third Zonai, but thats cheap, that or its not a Zoani (admittedly its slightly more lizard like than.. goat?) But to have an entirely different species with no other mention and this close looking to a zonai in unsatisfying aswell The way I see the entire timeline, focusing on that, is that SOMETHING happened that collapsed all timelines and destroyed hyrule (like the flood of windwaker), and after millenia it all basically reset with the Zonai and how it plays out on TotK's flashbacks, then an unknown time passes, technology advances (maybe spirit track can go here?) and then calamity hits, in this theory Rauru's child is alive all this time (maybe as king maybe not) and is the ancient hero, then the story of BotW and TotK play as presented, 10.000 years, calamity, 100 years, BotW, some more time, Upheaval, around 6 years I think?, TotK

[@ObviousSensationOfMadness]

The thing is. I do agree with you since no Master Sword seems to exist in the Zelda TOTK Pre-Story. So it might work!

[@roguemusketeer7501]

I think something that everyone seems to miss is that the period of time where Rauru and the 6 sages fight Ganondorf is called "The Imprisoning War", which the official timeline states is an exclusively 'Defeated Hero' timeline event, with this incarnation of Ganondorf being explicitly refered to as "Demon King Ganondorf", which happens to be the same title he goes by in Ocarina of Time, IIRC. So my bet is that the time period TotK Zelda got thrown back to was between 4-swords and Ocarina of time, with nothing in the prequels being affected. Because of the shear threat that Ganondorf presented, Zelda (and possibly Queen Sonia, but i think this wouldve happened after her death) used her powers over time to try and bring Link from the future to this new past, but caught the wrong incarnation due to her inexperience. This Link would eventually fall in battle against the demon king, leaving the events of TotK's pre-story that we know

[@ShadeNightwolf]

Here I come with a wrench 🔧! Memory 7 and Memory 9 in ToTK have a massive plothole: Where is Sonia's and Rararu's child? If Ganondorf kills Sonia, where is their child? Have they birthed an heir? Or because all this was "Always" meant to happen, then their child has already been hidden away for safety?