Academia: Stay or Go? | Post-PhD Career Planning

[@sirmclovin9184]

The more I think about this, the more I realize that we need to build strong unions in academia to stop this madness. It is not just harming scientists, it is also harming science by making much needed indepth work more difficult. We need to collectively demand stable science funding from governments, or we will strike the hell out of those universities. We need to bring students on our side and collectively demand better conditions for everyone!

[@xkcd_68868]

Exactly. The instability and low pay in the academia will repel the smart people away. All that'll be left is mediocre crowd trying to push the boundary be competing with less mediocre crowd.

[@jerrykim9497]

U so smart

[@StillAliveAndKicking_]

Alternatively they will carry on recruiting mugs by lying to them. Guess which will happen?

[@Zazmix]

Move to Denmark lol

[@Hirogen24]

So truthful. For 10 years I lived like a pauper changing countries and moving around until the permanent job came, and I was very lucky to get one. If I were 20 again there is no way that I would choose a career in academia.

[@stanleychan3571]

As a PhD student, seeing you pan out the pros and cons and openly admit you don't choose to stay has given me so much comfort. I have gotten too used to being at the mercy of academia. Thank you.

[@ColinPaterson295]

Thanks Lucy. I completed a PhD in 1993 then stayed in academia for 2 years before jumping into industry because I found the lack of direction and isolation so hard. Roll on to 2014 and I returned to academia to do a 2nd PhD (I know trying to recapture my youth) and I loved it. The problem is now that I'm doing post doctoral research, in a great field, but the lack of direction stuff hasn't changed one bit, but my ability to live with that has. It is so hard to be self-directed for 6,7,8+ years especially as an early career researcher. If your field is too narrow finding opportunities is hard, if it's too active then finding original ideas is just as tough. Having said all that ... I find it more enjoyable than the 21 years I spent in commercial organisations where to progress you also need to bring in the money and if you do get to the board you are making choices over the lives of others, making people redundant and asking people to take wage cuts is not easy. For now I will struggle on in academia. Thanks again for the content and good luck!

[@Biomeducated]

Great insights. I also leaped from PhD (not finished) to industry back to PhD (on track). Gaining experience from both, I kind of feel a start-up/scale-up environment would suit me best in the future. It's industry but still so chaotic that the atmosphere and attitude is still a lot academic (in many cases)!

[@senzen3768]

It is good that you mentioned isolation and lack of direction... that is the problem I had through my PhD and now that I had finished it. I find it so disappointing because I think academia should not be like that. I would like to stay in academia but not sure if I will manage to find a position...

[@elhamgmatin]

I really like how determined you are in the decision that you have made. Majority of PhD students get so lost at the end of their phd and they struggle a lot to know what they really want to do. Best wishes with all you endeavours, Lucy 🌸

[@wayde5545]

I'm in a slump at the moment. I'm 3rd year PhD. You have reminded me, Lucy, that I should be very grateful to be given the opportunity to do what I'm doing. I will try to be more motivated

[@rafisalfonsonin4908]

How are you doing Wayde? Still unmotivated? I have been there. I am now finally in dissertation proposal writing but the summer with so much going was hard to focus, i lost a summer of not writing. Let me know how are you doing bro, my IG: RAFISMIAMIBEACH

[@Marx-Lennon]

I’m interested in your motivation too. I just defended my proposal and now I’m prepping up for internship. I’ve lost motivation several times during my 5 year academic career. I need to focus on this late year or so get my crap together!!! We got this!!!!

[@sallyolivia37]

I am a first year PhD student and have absolutely no desire to stay in academia. It just isn’t for me, I will be looking for industry jobs afterwards. I just dislike the stigma of if you don’t stay in academia after your PhD you didn’t really succeed.

[@brazeiar9672]

Staying in academia has an even greater stigma. It's a running joke in industry that "those who can do, those who can't teach". Academics commenting on (moaning about) issues like Brexit have destroyed what little currency academics had with about 2/3rd's of the population.

[@christinegreen3974]

So glad I found yout channel! I finished my PhD at the beginning of the pandemic. It's been interesting!

[@muistijaljet]

Your thoughts are spot on. After (and also during) my PhD my longest grants were 12 months. Not really ideal life for a person with a family. I'm still torn apart with my love for research and knowledge and the stability of having a "normal" job but what could be a better time to figure this out unemployed as the current pandemic. :DDD Anyway, I think you'll do great whatever you choose to do!

[@rajivroy2352]

Your contents are amazing Lucy. I get inspired every time i listen to you. Keep going. We are behind you :)

[@aslisa6631]

Loved the honesty! You are helping lots of PhDs out there to think realistically! Thank you for that

[@LouFederer]

Bravo. I fully support this! I’m leaving academia too. Philosophy, in my opinion, can be my super esoteric hobby. And that is fine.

[@sarcasmisnotoptional]

I spent the last 5 weeks thinking about leaving my philosophy PhD program after only 1 year (a well ranked, though not the best, US program, 5-6 years to complete). I only have a couple of days left to decide and I think I'm leaving. Seeing people that are not afraid to say that they want and deserve a decent lifestyle and nothing, not even philosophy, is worth sacrificing that, is inspiring. I don't want to be miserable for the next 10 years because philosophy is my "passion". Knowing that my future is instability and uncertainty is already stressing me out too much. I'm a 30 year old woman, there is simply too much at stake, including the possibility of having a family and obtaining citizenship in a decent country. I really hope I won't regret my decision!

[@suleimanmustafa1473]

I completed my PhD last September and returned to work with my research institute. During the pandemic lockdown with a lot of free time to write proposals, I have been applying for postdoctoral positions to return back to the University.

[@adamtaylor2142]

I just left a postdoc to pursue a career at a national laboratory in the US. It seems like it could be a best-of-both-worlds situation. Nice salary, work-life balance, and I still get paid to work on scientific projects are the forefront of human knowledge! Have you considered looking in that direction?

[@emilyprevost2319]

hi, is it a permanent job or it is a contract ?

[@adamtaylor2142]

@@emilyprevost2319 hopefully permanent!

[@kkhanthony8533]

good luck! (a coming year 4 student doesn't know if it is worthy to pursue a PhD)

[@ashleybellasxo]

Hey, I am super grateful to hear this! I am going through a bit of a crisis in my personal life because I took a postdoc in a city that my fiancé can’t stand. I’m looking at postdocs at some institutes in the hopes that I can rank up and be a staff scientist one day. I hope things are working out for you, wherever you are!

[@adamtaylor2142]

@@ashleybellasxo things are going great on my end! I'm sure they will work out for you too.

[@InspiredLeader]

Thankfully, I was hired as a Adjunct Professor then full-time Lecturer in academia 10 years prior to entering a PhD program. This is what I'm called to do. I love the flexibility, creativity and working w/students. I plan to stay in academia after my PhD

[@hjjkjb5436]

Probably the best video I've seen on the topic, thank you!

[@gmt8336]

Love her eyes

[@Lea_5584]

Thank you Lucy for this video. I am starting this year a post doc in France and your video opened my eyes on how to plan my career as an academic or not.. It also made me realize how lucky I am to reach a step where I am asking myself this question.. congratulations for your success in your PhD and good luck for your next step ❤️

[@bradleyfrueh2761]

You do a great job explaining what life is like for a post-doc / professor, but what about the PhD in industry!

[@Kamala-4-President]

I think her answer at the end means she's not going to stay in Academia.

[@ennemuk]

I haven't even started a PhD yet and I'm already excited for post-PhD content! I don't expect to stay in academia exactly for the reasons you've laid out here and I'm curious to see how you'll shape your future :)

[@Dr.SariHamoud]

Do not do it.

[@pranischal]

I've been following your channel for a few years now... I think I started my PhD a semester after you did, and my experiences have mirrored yours quite closely. I had been thinking about the same question for past couple of weeks and today I saw your video on whether to stay or go... Thanks for sharing your thoughts! All the best!

[@keatingfeathering6869]

You have to love it! Otherwise you will hate it! I can’t imagine being anywhere else but academia. I got into it for that not a job...

[@lakhanpalsinghchouhan5639]

I'm a undergrad and want to do the same from this day until my last day.

[@anjalyb6935]

Congratulations Lucy for your submission. You inspire me a lot in my PhD journey. Now I'm on the verge of submission of my thesis. I didn't choose my career in academia. Personally I don't think that's the way I wanted to go. I got a job as a research associate in a MNC. I'm doing through online mode. And I'm compiling my thesis also. Thank you so much for your inspiration and you made me feel like I'm not alone... I really appreciate your efforts..

[@nikki5095]

Did the MNC see your PhD as a strength? I'd love to keep doing research outside of academia.

[@anjalyb6935]

@@nikki5095 dear, my specialization is in macroeconomics . Yes , I wrote in my job application as a PhD student and the software that I learnt through these years. It helped me a lot.

[@sazanm.mandalawi4930]

You are probably my favourite person on KZbin doing videos!!! I can listen to you all day! All the best in what is to come xox

[@sarahmassalkhi]

I love your content Lucy, i feel you are the friend i've needed throughout my PhD journey. I'm doing my PhD in astrophysics, due to defend this October, and seriously contemplating leaving academia for the same exact reasons you mentioned in this video yet I don't know what I could possibly do with my degree.

[@brazeiar9672]

There isn't much astrophysics in industry but a degree in Physics, Maths or Engineering generally opens doors to decent paying jobs. You can pick any job really.

[@nikki5095]

Lucy, thank you for your candor. I am an undergrad looking down the barrel of grad school and leaning toward a PhD because I love my field. However, I am fairly certain that I don't want to stay in academia. I look forward to seeing where this decision leads you. :)

[@brazeiar9672]

Undergrad is mostly fun, PhD is mostly not fun. PhD ~ slave labour. Undergrad ~ paying customer.

[@lakhanpalsinghchouhan5639]

On this day I am a undergrad and want to do research until my last day.

[@PhDCoffeeTime]

"The world is still turning. There are still options!" Lucy Kissick 2020 Thanks for this video, it has taken me 6 years of instability as a postdoc in three continents (HK, US, and France) to figure this out. Having "to run just to stay still" is the biggest problem I have with this system. I am still transitioning from the last postdoc for a role in the private sectors. (If you would like to get connected on job search, we could chat more on Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/verabschan/) Another view I have seen from working in the US is that there are many PhD alumni in the workforce who are living scientific and happy lives. So, despite the popular belief of seeing academia as the "only option" especially in the early PhD, we could just be "too focused" to see other creative options. Especially after we have lived in a world surrounded by academic professors who got lucky in the older world of academia for their permanent job. Scientists can be creatively choosing the career that fits them the most, and academia is just one of many options out there.

[@Biomeducated]

The latter sentence could not be more true! Amen!

[@PhDCoffeeTime]

@@Biomeducated Glad you can relate, Kevin :)

[@ashleybellasxo]

What are the other options please? 😙

[@songbird8778]

Thank you Lucy for being honest and. presenting facts clearly and fairly. I truly believe you will be amazing as a lecturer and students will love you, if you select academia. But I respect your decision. More power to you!!!

[@xUnderwaterGiRLx]

I wish I had your wisdom when I finished my PhD! Signed, a lecturer in the UK

[@Ramen_Sensei]

Your thoughts are amazing! You literally opened my mind. So many decisions....but ur awesome.

[@91722854]

12 hours per day? would be nice to have an upgrade so our skin can harness sunlight via photosynthesis, while having a secondary sleepable brain so we can switch out and let it sleep and charge while the other one can still be awake and used for research, drinking water and peeing

[@NAKK786]

once had a thousand desires. But in my one desire to know you all else melted away. Rumi

[@jerrykim9497]

I really agree thanks lady :)

[@shresthachowdhury1770]

Good luck Lucy!!

[@menkiguo7805]

I just went into university and got my first conference paper submitted. Now I like research so much but I am afraid I cannot get a research job after phd.

[@Plottoberry]

I'd love to do a postdoc but its almost impossible. I'm looking for research jobs outside academia now.

[@tembekamhlakwaphalwa9535]

Thank, I have my answer

[@ashleybellasxo]

I recently graduated and started a postdoc in a new city. My fiancé broke the news that he can’t stay with me in the new city we moved to together, and that he has to go back to our old home where our friends and family are. I really love what I study, but I don’t know if it’s enough to sustain me without someone to go home to at night. I don’t know what kind of opportunities there are for me at research institutes outside of academia. I think I’m going to forego academia but I’m holding tight to my dream of being a scientist.

[@ThePhDiaries]

This was really gutting to read. Getting a postdoc is such an accomplishment and you must be very proud -- but I'm completely with you on 'without someone to go home to at night'. I'm sorry this all hit you at Christmas. Since making this video I've worked for a year as a scientist at a national lab. I'm going to make a video on it asap actually, and you've spurred me on, because it really is the intermediate sweet spot between industry and academia: you get to still be a scientist, and not one just profit-driven like for a business, and it's a normal permanent job. So far I really can't find any serious downsides - I even get to apply for grants and choose what I work on, within limits. Hope you're doing okay, it sounds like you're caught in a really difficult position. And I hope you still get to be a scientist, whatever you do.

[@angelashen2515]

Hey Ashley! I went through a similar experience but I was only planning to pursue my PhD in a new city. My partner also told me that he cannot move there with me since his family and all connections are in our current city. I get your feelings exactly. As a stranger on the internet I really cannot comment much on your case. But for me, I want someone who would support my aspirations and fight to be with me. Yes, I find it challenging without his companionship. But I firmly believe new people will come into my life who would suits me and my future better. :))) Best of luck and stay safe~

[@massabranca]

Great explanation, lucy! Do share what are your follow up plans! will you continue writing fiction as a side project?

[@kusumajagadish]

Its almost 2 years I have been looking for postdoc and I regret taking my passion as a career. No job and being dependent on someone at this age is a terrible feeling

[@senzen3768]

Great video, Lucy, as usual! I am sure you will do good whatever you do! I wonder what do you think about chances of people who are not lucky enough or good enough to study at the world's best universities, like yours is? And also, maybe you could make a video about publishing thesis as a book?

[@QuercusQuest]

Perhaps you could also make a video on how to get into a PhD?

[@ems7623]

I'm glad to have found your channel. I made it as far as tenure review when extreme burnout hit. At virtually the same time, i had a health crisis. Then my elderly father started having his own health issues and i was always thousands of miles away. I decided not to go up for tenure. I entered a three year mourning period - three years because on top of everything else, the pandemic struck I'm now trying to figure out what to do next. I'm really lost. What does one do after academia when you decide to leave not after the PhD, but after a junior professorship?

[@wolfcarz]

Thank you for this, I needed to hear it...but the big question is, if I love doing research but not under that kind of conditions (job instability, not having a place to feel 'home', not having time for family/friends/partners, etc) what is the next step? doing research on industry? It could be an option, but if not what else? sadly working on research nowadays is so difficult and challenging for a lot of factors that we can´t control. Thanks again for your video.

[@tonyshoeball7759]

I'm looking to do my history MPhil at Oxford, how is the University?

[@AJBadwan]

I did my PhD because I want to be an academic entrepreneur (make money by creating high-tech products, testing them, publishing about them and then commercialise them in startups businesses) or in other words...Tony Stark. This is a new area for academics and in my opinion, it is much more exciting then getting research grants

[@MrProy33]

If someone has any question of whether they should stay or go, thry should go. Academic life is rigorous, ultra-competitive, and forces the cream to rise to the top. If you aren't absolutely dedicated, have a singular, narrow research focus, have unlimited drive to establish research that purposefully drives the discipline forward, and possess an unquenchable thirst for education, then leave. It's simple. We don't want you in the academy if you want things your way. We do things our way, we have for centuries, and you either get with the plan or get out.

[@ronaldspencer547]

Move to Pasadena and work at jet propulsion laboratory.

[@artemakoulini]

completely unrelated but I love the knot on your scarf, how do you tie it?

[@adams8849]

Hey Lucy, could you please interview a fello PhD in management. I would like to know how they went about it, I bet it would be slightly different from your science one. I have just started my course and this interview would help.

[@bangbroefootball]

so do you have any suggestion related another platfrom that similiars to academia? Thank you

[@preranasharma8356]

So relatable

[@Thiago-pc7vk]

Does it occur if im a Havard undergrad/postdoc theoretical physics graduate?

[@tapassarkar396]

💓💓💓😌😊...get inspired always 😍😊

[@drbonesshow1]

Some will only leave academia feet first and dead.

[@Aemilindore]

I have been enjoying your videos throughuout. But I do not agree with some facts pointed out. But they may very well be true in other parts of the world. In top universities of Asia, you can get tenure after 4-7 years and forget that you will ever be fired.

[@Biomeducated]

Interesting. Is that as a native Asian, or do your chances even increase if you move around as a Westerner. I suppose not everyone is that geographically mobile, perhaps after 6 years postdoc you have a family and such... Is it really only the Western world that is saturated with PhDs looking for professorship?

[@gabrielcwong]

post doc tenure track? non tenure track?

[@knw-seeker6836]

As so often no one tells you what´s going behind the scenes or how it´s in reality

[@sajjadedalatzadeh8869]

I think when an employment contract as a lecturer in UK becomes permanent you already achieved what needs to be achieved as an academic. That's not super difficult if you have some publications and teaching experience on your CV. After that, you can work hard to move up the ladder or stay where you are and enjoy working in an academic environment, getting a mortgage and buying a house, building lasting friendships, and not moving around. At that level, the expectations are not high, so you don't have to be prolific to keep your job. Academic path becomes difficult when PhDs start comparing themselves to prolific professors at top-tier universities. That can happen in any job. If you wanna be a CEO, CTO, CFO (UFO!) at FAANG, you need be willing to sacrifice. If you wanna be an Olympic athlete, you gotta give up a cozy life. You wanna be a celebrity, you might have to live on the edge. Anyways, I liked your video, keep it up 👍

[@NAKK786]

When everyone is trying to be something, be nothing. Range with emptiness. Rumi

[@sarth.choudhary]

I wish I had found this video earlier.

[@chippydolphin]

♥️♥️♥️

[@ahmadrizwan3211]

Hi❤

[@Brockdorf]

I wonder if it is part UK and part astrogeology? In the US Ph.D. at a good University is about $60,000 for Criminology, $70,000 for History, and $225,000 for Accounting (these are ones I am familiar with). In the UK it looks like around £50,000 for Criminology and £60,000 for Accounting. It looks like your pay is much closer together? We also have PhDs from Europe that say they left because PhDs are not rewarded for hard work over there, that seem to fly in the face of your 60-hour workweek statement. I will say though, almost anyone in a profession in the US works 60 hours a week--I hit 80 almost every week and near a hundred in the busy season.

[@brazeiar9672]

80hrs a week at £50k is very poor wages for a professional. That is £35k/year after tax and student loans, equivalent to £17.5k for half your week (40 hours).

[@Dr.SariHamoud]

I love your videos. I am a psycholinguist from Syria in the 4th year of the PhD program at a prestigious university in New Delhi, India. However, racism and lack of funding are forcing me to leave academia. That is, when I finish this PhD. I have been denied too many top conference visas just because of my nationality.

[@lakhanpalsinghchouhan5639]

Are you at Delhi University or JNU? Are you not getting any Funding? What are you saying about Racism in India? It is unbelievable.

[@honnifaye6061]

She looks like that one girl from Modern Love

[@foregoneblock28mola77]

Hi uwu

[@MSneberger]

4:00 So what you are saying is you are going to get an H1-B Visa and move to the USA and work for Space X or NASA? I can just hear the clerks in the USA's ICE/DHS/INS discussing the matter now: Clerk 1: "You have to see this applicant's reason for being special enough to come to 'merica and steal one of our jobs!" Clerk 2: "Let me guess, they write software?" Clerk 1: "She says she's a 'Martian Geologist.'" Clerk 2: "Martian? Aren't they on the 'No-Fly List?'" Clerk 1: "Well she claims to have a UK passport . . ." Clerk 2: "At least a non-Asian/African country has vetted her! Where is she going to work?" Clerk 1: "Sponsoring entity is Space X." Clerk 2: "Oh great then, Elon Musk opened his Tesla factory during the Pandemic when all the Liberals were complaining!" Welcome to America Lucy!

[@MSneberger]

"Spent Nuclear fuel!?!" I am so sad you are not headed to the USA to work on Mars geology! Or wait a minute . . . are you working on sending spent nuclear fuel to Mars!?!

[@mmohamed6590]

When I watched your video about a day in your lab. I noticed u dont have a boy friend. The day ended without even u have friends. I expected u like this life. But now, i understand that girls like flowers. They have a certain period in which they glorify with beuty like your beutiful blue eyes. After that, the time passes and all beuty will go and the remaining family and love lasts for ever. Doing research is great, but it should not opposes the human needs for love, enjoy, and making family.