Academic Corruption, Psychedelics, & More: CALL-IN Show with Peter Boghossian & Doug Pinecreek

[@drpeterboghossian]

What did you think of this call-in format?

[@V23325]

I like the call in format. I’m not sure how much notice you usually give but I think having a few days notice would be great so for those of us who want to call in can both make sure we are able to be in a place where it’s possible and also so someone like myself has some time to properly work out what I want to ask because asking on a stream is a bit different than what I’m used to. And I think potential topics or themes you are interested in could be good too, not necessarily to limit it strictly but might get some different engagement. :)

[@valeriecarpentier6384]

Its hard to explain psychedelics to those who haven’t tried. It was not at all what I expected when I first tried it, I was shocked to discover how love is important and how we are all one.I cried with joy, I was never the same again… way more benevolent and understanding but also less driven and more “lazy” if I can say so… like I no longer have the ambition to succeed because my world view completely shifted. I just want to chill and explore and learn. Also I saw myself as I am and felt self-compassion for the first time in my life and it was really touching. I try to remember that feeling in my day to day life but it is hard. Also, I only took it a few times in my 20s and it’s been years… but I will always remember the first trip. But I will never experience it again. I feel like it was enough.

[@ponyboygarfunkel1675]

I enjoy smoking marijuana. It seems to mildly enhance my sensitivity to food, love, film, music, thought, etc. A most pleasant state, for me.

[@brianmeen2158]

Yes I know many people that said they enjoy smoking marijuana too. It did put them in a pleasant state at the beginning but then it started turning on them.. bad rebound anxiety, laziness, paranoia were a few dude effects they started to feel. I have 2 friends that have been changed for the worse due to weed - they went from charismatic, social and outgoing people to anxious, irritable recluses .. it’s tragic. So although I do think weed has its benefits - many that smoke it seem Oblivious to the side effects

[@ponyboygarfunkel1675]

@@brianmeen2158 Kindly note that I am a geezer. I try and pass my endless numbered days enjoyably. The grave will surely claim me, no matter my precautions.

[@Kenpachi_White707]

I also smoke weed. But for some I reason it lowered my hunger a lot and I lost 30 pounds. Pretty crazy. But even though I know weed can’t be good for you because your lighting fire a putting smoke in your lungs but I pray to the God I don’t believe in they never remove it.

[@ponyboygarfunkel1675]

@@Kenpachi_White707 I consider "weed" to be an ugly word. I choose to call it marijuana, or simply grass.

[@Kenpachi_White707]

@@ponyboygarfunkel1675yeah I get it. It’s such a wonderful plant.

[@alexandrazachary.musician]

My research is on psychedelics, insights, meaning attribution and belief change. If you are serious about looking into some neuroscience the best place to start is Carhart-Harris & Friston, 2019. REBUS and the anarchic brain. Here in Australia psychedelics have now been scheduled as prescribing medicine. Thanks for all you do. 🙏🏽❤️

[@Jamie-bu9cq]

Love the chat and interview format with Doug. Goid chemistry.

[@B.S._Lewis]

It's never too late to live your dreams, Peter. There's a Walgreens on every corner.

[@lymphy12]

Psychedelics is like riding a bike; you could loose control and bust your face, or you could experience a whole new world.

[@Ethan-sg9cm]

I love Farscape and SG-1!!!!!! How did you even meet Ben? Does he run in philosophy circles or something? That's pretty cool.

[@BeneathTheFoogyDew]

Was a good conversation, with wingmen like you guys Reid's reproductive future is bright. Hopefully see you at street epistemology in Adelaide in the not too distant future. I'll shout you all one of the many fine assorted beverages produced in good ol' South Australia.

[@skepticusmaximus184]

I'd happily second that motion as fellow Adelaide boy. Greetings from Brooklyn Park Adelaide SA. Do you do street epistemology yourself @emeraldteir1750 ? Hope you get to Adelaide soon Peter. 🍺😊👍

[@BeneathTheFoogyDew]

​@skepticusmaximus184 Not publicly, I've done private english and maths tutoring for children and teens. In my sessions we did a similar epistemology exercise though with simple arguments about things they care about. Of the kids I did the exercise with, it's fun with kids like 11 and above, younger than that and they fold to what ever counter position you propose or pick and extreme position they don't necessarily believe in, but for the purposes of the game are not willing to move from. Childhood cognitive developmental milestones are wild.

[@skepticusmaximus184]

@@BeneathTheFoogyDew That's absolutely brilliant and inspiring. Kids need to learn some critical thinking skills and honestly establishing a Socratic dialectic to earnestly seek out an epistemic path to mutual agreement or just agreeing to differ without hostility is a superb approach. I also like a bit of stoicism with my Socratic dialogue too. Kudos on your wonderful contribution to the life of some very lucky kids. They will quite likely look back with pride in 20 years or so, and remember how important you were in shaping their character.

[@1312Johnny]

“They’re both stimulants” Yes, so is crystal-Methamphetamine! 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@valeriecarpentier6384]

I was thinking the same thing hahaha so is cocaine

[@biglollol]

Cheerleader fallacy? Just because you support it, doesn't mean you practise it.

[@barblundgren498]

Reliable Loving mom and dad that want to spend time with them-ding ding ding ding. Yes. Big yes.

[@realMaverickBuckley]

What were the chat saying?? Never seen Peter so riled up 😮

[@heathe3529]

Seemed like a bunch of creepy stalker types

[@ASH-su6nb]

Fun fact, peter or his mod banned a guy that was defending him. (defending Peter) because they thought he is a "creepy stalker" and banned him. FREE SPEECH! right?

[@brianmeen2158]

@@ASH-su6nb many of you really should go outside more often.

[@ASH-su6nb]

@@brianmeen2158 what makes u think I didn't write that comment outside?

[@HenryThree]

I think all the mysticism and spiritual insights that people try to draw from psychedelics are nonsense. I also think that, outside of some specific individual circumstances, taking psychedelics isn't going to improve you as a person or your life in any noticeable sense. However, I do think that psychedelics can allow you to view certain things in your life or in the world at large in ways that you would not otherwise (this is just due to the psychedelics forcing a slight breakdown of your typical neurological patterns and allowing neurons to connect in new ways). They're also just a damn good time. If Doug is looking for a solid argument for trying psychedelics, one would be so that he doesn't sound like he has no idea what he's talking about when they come up in conversation. (though idk if I would recommend DMT as an intro psychedelic, it's pretty intense, even though the effect is very short-lived)

[@Martin-tt1mq]

Peter Boghosian not only supports gay marriage, but he also promotes and talks about it whenever he can, regardless of the topic is on the table at the moment. I am not an expert in social science epistemology, but I can still see the difference between raising a family and satisfying sexual appetites, whether with real people, imaginary partners, objects, or even animals. As a society, are we going to institutionalize families based on sexual appetites, no matter which or how bizarre they are? And most importantly, what will be the children's role in all that social engineering? I'm sorry, but I think that providing children with a natural, safe and widely tested environment, such as that based on the traditional family, is and has to be very much above building a fiction to satisfy all those who are incapable of thinking beyond of their own desires.

[@JonathanRossRogers]

1:07:41 Confusing Star Wars with Star Trek is a completely different kind of mistake from saying that Dune is a knock-off of Star Wars. Star Wars drew a great deal of inspiration from Dune, which was published over a decade before Star Wars was released.

[@lhurst9550]

I would have never put you two together. Friends eh?

[@readwritemike]

Don’t let ‘em put you on your back foot, Peter.

[@ricksmith6813]

Oh boy!

[@13shadowwolf]

Doug is wrong, his comparison between the effects of caffeine and nicotine are not correct. Heart health Nicotine can increase blood pressure, heart rate, and blood flow to the heart, and it can narrow arteries. It can also contribute to hardening of the arterial walls, which can lead to heart attacks. Caffeine does none of these things. Other health issues Nicotine can also increase the risk of cardiovascular, respiratory, and gastrointestinal disorders. It can also cause delayed wound healing, peptic ulcer disease, and esophageal reflux. Nicotine can also negatively impact reproductive health and immune response. Nicotine damages cell division and significantly increases recovery from any major wound or illness. Caffeine doesn't have these issues. Cancer Nicotine can affect cell proliferation, oxidative stress, apoptosis, and DNA mutation, which can lead to cancer. It can also affect tumor proliferation and metastasis, and it can cause resistance to chemotherapy and radiation therapy. Again, caffeine doesn't have these issues. Withdrawal Nicotine withdrawal can cause side effects such as headaches, sweating, restlessness, tremors, difficulty sleeping, increased appetite, abdominal cramps, and digestive issue. While caffeine does have some similarities to nicotine withdrawal, it's nowhere near as acute. Doug needs to figure out how to actually do research and challenge his opinions. Nicotine has multiple side effects that caffeine does not, and it took all of 60 seconds to find a pile of data that demonstrats Doug didn't bother to check to see if his opinion reflected reality. I have noticed that Doug does very little actual research, he tends to just value "data" that supports his Presupposed Opinions.

[@brianmeen2158]

Thanks for the info! I have numerous people in my family that are it were chronic nicotine users and they all have heart issues.. COPD is no joke

[@PineCreekDoug]

Oh my, you must hate my politics so much that you feel the need to nit pick. Since you did the "hard work" of using Google AI search, here's the similarities (which I said). Caffeine and nicotine are both CNS stimulants. They act on the brain in similar ways, producing similar and different results. Caffeine and nicotine both increase a person's heart rate and produce stimulation and arousal. And yes, both CAN BE dangerous (like anything else) especially for people with hypertension.

[@13shadowwolf]

@@PineCreekDoug you completely ignored everything you didn't want to deal with that showed how shallow your comparison was. You're Oversimplifying to pretend to have a point, which is what Apologists do when protecting their religious beliefs. When you cannot actually address the argument, you pretend as if "they're both drugs and do the same" is a correct statement when it obviously is not. In similar dosage sizes, nicotine will kill you. When we look at total effects we see significant differences, when we compare Negative side effects it becomes even more clear how incorrect your initial statement really is. Oh, and if you bothered to check you would notice that caffeine and nicotine actually do not affect the brain in the same way. Caffeine increases oxygen absorption, nicotine reduces the functionality of pain reception sites, The subjective feeling is sometimes similar, but they don't have the same interactions with the neurology. Nicotine exposure during development can cause permanent negative epigenetic changes in the genome that can be passed on to future generations. It's VERY bad for mothers to have ANY nicotine, and the father can pass changes on due to damage to his genetics, smoking reduces sperm count significantly because it damages your genome and your kids may suffer. They are not the same in any way Doug, and the whole point was that you are making Oversimplification Errors to talk about subjects that you don't have enough information to have a valid opinion.

[@PineCreekDoug]

@@13shadowwolf ok. ok. ok. I encourage you to ignore me.

[@13shadowwolf]

@@PineCreekDoug you are snowflake that doesn't like having your opinions challenged, you get corrected and all you do is attempt an emotional attack on par with Eric Cartman. Quit projecting, talk to a therapist about how you need to piss people off to feel good about yourself, the constant trolling attitude is why I didn't send the message to you directly. I was ignoring you, I posted criticisms for other Peter B viewers to read, you decided to draw the conversation to yourself. Doesn't that strike you as childish? You don't address what you got wrong, you insult other people to anger them, and you try to make the conversation about you. Cameron Bartuzzi isn't all that honest, the reason he didn't want you on the show is because you are too much like him from the other side of the fence.

[@g07denslicer]

When does Nathan try to come on? Edit: I think it's 1:13:43

[@GOBATMANWOO]

31:00 one of my fav moments in a stream ever.

[@ruthhorowitz7625]

Could you read my book next?

[@skepticusmaximus184]

I'm thinking that as an author, for the benefit of sound promotional practices, you might mention the title of your book, what it's about, and where to find it. I'm not trying to be snarky here, but your request "Can you read my book next?" sounds more like a school child asking the teacher, to be excused go to the toilet, than an author asking for their book to be reviewed.

[@ruthhorowitz7625]

@@skepticusmaximus184 you do have a point 😂

[@HowardSchoonover]

holy smoke what was going on in the chat?

[@9ja9ite]

I now right? I was about to jump in to ask what the hell was everyone’s problem when Peter started saying ban everyone 😦. So I just stayed out so I didn’t caught up in all that mess.

[@pixndoog]

“Affordance trap” was a good fallacy I heard once

[@Nall412]

what happen in the chat?

[@dilloneliassen9622]

A reason why an animal would need an abortion? How about a very career-minded milk cow?

[@realMaverickBuckley]

'You know Christians theyre so nice to me its astonishing.' 'Is the issue with the Woke and decline of our institutions related to Atheism.' ....

[@g07denslicer]

When you quote a video it really helps if you put the timestamp too.

[@jjphenom2831]

59:30 But there is no monarchy in Germany!

[@user-useff]

Peter likes sci-fi so I don't see why he doesn't like the sudo science studies.

[@KraszuPolis]

How to fix education: opensource AI teachers.

[@skepticusmaximus184]

It's a great idea in principle, but I'm a bit dubious of It's potential to be exploited by educational institutions, already ideologically captured, running the AI and tweaking the code for political indoctrination. I find myself testing AI with controversial topics to edge test it's capacity to be manipulated or have already been manipulated. If it can.(and it does seem so) then AI might become a way to automate the indoctrination. I know you said open source, but the underlying code must be maintained and in any open source project, there are humans who decide which of the code submitted is acceptable and which isn't. I don't see how AI could regulate it's own code base and learning/training in the absence of ideological bias. It an interesting problem though.

[@valeriecarpentier6384]

Star wars is a cheap version of dune not the other way around wtf 😂😂

[@N7sensei]

SW and Dune are both stupid. I'll fite you.

[@ubersheizer5398]

Nathan is a kid trying to find himself. He is attacking you, Peterson, and others for Street Cred. *edit: He has had some issues in his youth he is trying to figure out. Smart but confused.

[@theunknownatheist3815]

This Daniel guy is wrong about “radical individualism”. Sorry, but what is happening is NOT “individualism”- it’s Collectivism. He has a few decent points but his main points are wrong.

[@valeriecarpentier6384]

He sounded bitter and somewhat arrogant to me. But the guys handled him very well with their humour and wisdom 👏

[@N7sensei]

Homeschooling sounds cool, but it has prerequisites from the family's part and the kids will be deprived of social experiences (for better AND worse). My kids are still in kindergarten. I'm seriously considering homeschooling. I have 2 jobs, and maybe a few hours of free time every month I spend on myself. My wife is completely incompetent, and pathologically lazy. I suppose if I lower the quality of my services I can somehow manage homeschooling, but I have no solution to the social experiences part. My kids are already deprived of social experiences thanks to a neglecting mother, the cough lockdowns, very low birthrates and family members being old and scarce (only 1 cousin). Sports and online socialization experiences can not make up for being in the classroom with 30 kids and in the school with hundreds of kids for 12 years.

[@saracorbin1152]

Dude, doesn't sound like your marriage is going to make it. I'm sorry.

[@chrisb9345]

Digital Gnosis appeared on your recent UK SE discussion with Billboard Chris. He has been obsessed with you ever since. He currently earns $100 a month on patreon, up from around $40 when he did the video, so I guess it's worked out for him. Not earning a handsome living though.

[@Nall412]

Ohhhh. It was that clown.

[@chrisb9345]

@@Nall412 Yep, the one who used 'facts don't care about your feelings', but clearly didn't understand it, and just used it as a failed dunk.

[@user-pn8ke3kf5f]

@chrisb9345 Oh, are we talking about financial motives? If $60/month is enough to compromise someone who has the salary of a software engineer I can only imagine what hundreds of thousands of dollars from Viktor Orban would do for Peter... Or is it different when it's someone you agree with?

[@chrisb9345]

@@user-pn8ke3kf5f I'm talking about clout chasing, where all you are trying to do is promote ideas your 'tribe' find acceptable, rather than trying to discuss controversial issues honestly or attempoting to change anyone's mind. Though I think Peter's ideas are sometimes flawed, I don't get the impression that he does this at all. Gnosis is a noisy, empty, vessel. Nothing he has ever said, or will ever say, is of any consequence.

[@user-pn8ke3kf5f]

@@chrisb9345 Lol you serious? Peter is the one that has the "I'll only talk to them if they have a large platform" criteria. He is absolutely a clout chaser over a truth seeker. If anything, I would say that there is some sort of inverse correlation with channels/platforms being truth-apt and how large they are. Some of the best channels out there for education/expertise content are tiny because they don't pander to an audience. I think Nathan is clearly more well read almost across the board than Peter is on almost every issue. There's a reason he is able to do 10hr+ bad apologetic streams covering a wide breadth of philosophical, historical, psychological, etc. content.

[@unbekannter_Nutzer]

@nicotine: I can support Doug from experiences with discussions about vaping. Yes, the harm which is done by smoking is not related to the nicotine, but by byproducts of burning the tobacco. And you can't kill yourself by an reasonable overdose of nicotine alone.

[@FartPanther]

False, whilst 95 % less harmful than tobbaco, pure nicotine is harmful in itself due to vasoconstriction and it's much much easier to overdose using vape products (and yes nicotine can be toxic).

[@dutenheffer1565]

I vaped for ten years. One day at the gym my lungs started to feel like they were burning and I couldn’t breathe. That happened 3 times in a row at the gym and I started getting scared. I came to the conclusion it was from vaping and I switched to snus. Never happened again after that. I read a paper that said IT can cause something that looks like a chemical burn to the lungs. So be careful. Better than smoking for sure. But it seems like the negative effects go from nothing, to very severe very rapidly

[@13shadowwolf]

Seriously, go look up all the effects Nicotine has on the body. It damages cell replication, it causes narrowing of artery walls, it literally changes your genetics to the point where you can pass epigenetic changes onto your children. There are multiple studies showing the changes to your neurology that nicotine use causes, please go look up the Scholarship in the field. Nicotine is very much a drug that should NOT be in the human system.

[@dutenheffer1565]

I’m heavily Christian (Protestant) and use the shit out of psychedelics

[@1312Johnny]

I have a colour television! 😃

[@N7sensei]

@@1312Johnny I liek turutlez.

[@ubersheizer5398]

Dune is all about Islam. Dune was before Star Wars and Star Trek. ugh.

[@indi_prime]

Liberalism is when you need to pay for the consequences of others eating shit? Yah that's a hard no on liberalism, maybe take that back to the drawing board

[@Nall412]

That’s what Liberalism is brother. We strive to keep our society somewhat Liberal in the classical sense. A dude who eats his own shit. For starters who gives a fuck? Long as he’s not hurting others or interfering with others individual freedoms

[@Nall412]

He’s a candidate. If he want’s too ruin his credibility by uploading him licking seats and eating shit. Let him doit. He’s just making it harder on him self too get any kind of political role. Let em sail on out into the sunset. He’ll be irrelevant soon enough

[@indi_prime]

@@Nall412 It speaks to a problem with liberalism more broadly. It constructs this artificial world for people to occupy and ends up trapping them inside, with shit eaters. I do not like shit eaters and do not want to share a society with them because I do not trust their judgement, especially since liberalism grants them the same authority as all others, regardless of their propensity to consume faeces. This is unsustainable in part due to the second-hand shame that comes when acts of degeneracy are observed by competing cultures without a punishment foundational on Maslows hierarchy, pain, and secondly due to the fact a population cannot feel psychologically comfortable being classified into the same legal category as shit eaters, the legal fiction of citizen is a dishonour when such creatures are permitted entrance