Military Sabre Lesson - how to defend against the thrust

A basic overview of how to respond and defend against thrusting techniques.

[@vidensodoacer]

I never used to be interested in military sabre, but it's definitely becoming more and more interesting.

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+Qorhtomh Yes it was only a few years ago that there was little interest at all and almost no training weapons available for it either. Now it seems like it is as popular as rapier, and may even surpass it in time. I am glad, it is a great system, and a lot of fun to practice.

[@ME-hm7zm]

+Academy of Historical Fencing The material, owing to its military nature, is much more approachable. Even early on in my HEMA journey, I found myself reading a few American manuals and wishing some of the medieval stuff was as clearly written (though, in retrospect, some of those American manuals weren't really all that clear).

[@leecody5885]

The legacy of military sword training continues even today in the USMC’s knife training

[@sneakerphotgrapher]

Well done! I especially like the fact the video is so concise, not rambling and repetitive. So many people take *forever* to get to the point, repeat it over and over.

[@mickmaxtube]

Great vid, very informative. In Australia where I live there are few fencing schools and most only cater to classical rapier techniques so it's great to have access to a more varied curriculum. Subscribed.

[@kevinlobos5519]

I have been learning a lot from these videos, great channel and keep up the good work!

[@LifebyBrianAquatics]

Another great sabre vid! Woohoo, thanks a million guys :)

[@brabhamfreaman166]

You handle that sword beautifully in the intro.

[@dfraser7402]

These video lessons have been excellent, and very useful. When can we expect some more advanced lessons continuing this focus on Georgian Military Sabre? Amongst the range of options, perhaps the following would be of interest to your audience: guidance on moving through partner drills to sparing; dealing with the bayonet; dealing with sabreurs from other traditions; introduction to Angelo, evolving from Rowarth, etc. As well, in another video you indicated a trial of new metal training sabres, but there as yet has not been a product review of a metal sabre that matches the characteristics of a Georgian military sabre. Long story short, this is a great and very informative series of concise training videos, and it would be great to see it continue

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+D Fraser Thanks for the input! We haven't be able to shoot lessons for a few weeks due time and audio issues. But we'll be back with them soon. About steel sabres. We just got the first Georgian type steel sabres last week, but I have three more on order with different companies. All will be reviewed in time once we have tested them thoroughly.

[@alyulka]

Good explanation. Thank you!

[@stevenkennedy4130]

That lady has skills! Thanks for the share!!

[@Yojimbo711]

Thank you

[@grinningchicken]

very good video

[@The_cherrybomb.]

Have to say have to add this to makashi formula a.k.a lightsaber combat

[@bighack4962]

Cherrybomb stuart thats why I’m here

[@JainaSoloB312]

Hello there! Always nice to see a fellow Seven Forms practioner

[@kronoscamron7412]

You can follow the low thrust deflection with a sideways head cut. Or an upward hand cut

[@bartangel4867]

sorry when i said knuckles to the side I meant knuckles up but palm down not to the side as all of the thrusts shown in this video.

[@yvesgomes]

Do you need more precise timing to parry a thrust? I have the impression that the thrust can easily get through if the parry motion is done a little early or a little late. I could be wrong, but I think I see a lot of this on this channel's sparring videos. And if I'm correct on this, I'm also curious if the "strength" of a thrust makes it more likely to beat a slightly late parry.

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

To some degree yes, but they are also much easier to set aside than a cut. The strength isn't so much an issue. The strength of a thrust is all about it's alignment to the opponents blade, what we call stringering in Capo Ferro's rapier, and blade domination more universally.

[@yvesgomes]

Thanks for the detailed reply.

[@Ciprian-IonutPanait]

6:21 I would go with strike to the arms or legs. Over-reaching may get you caught in the other's follow-up

[@javanmaes7850]

+Academy of Historical Fencing Awesome video as usual! The one thing I'd like to see is more slipping the leg during parries. If you look at the Illustrations and text of the Taylor/Roworth Manual the right foot is slipped back during the parries. P. 60 when describing the half-hanging guard states that. It seems a little unusual at first for people coming from other styles like rapier but shifting the leg should be done with every parry unless you intend on commanding his sword or for a specifically swift parry riposte.

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+Javan Maes Yes that is true. In fact you will see me doing it in sparring so often, and yet I frequently miss it out in demonstrations. I will endeavour to increase the leg slipping. Personally I find it useful to withdraw the leg perhaps half of the time, because others you can counter better from a fixed position, providing you judge your opponents attack and your counter correctly. Only in the last couple of years has slipping the leg come more naturally to me, after many years of teaching rapier, where in fact we often do the opposite, and lunge into attacks.

[@javanmaes7850]

+Academy of Historical Fencing Totally! I started with rapier as well and found the exact same thing was difficult for me, which is why I commented on it. But the slip has a huge advantage in more cut oriented fencing. It helps control the distance and improves defence.While it is a little slower on the riposte, you don't lose any range of attack because your range is determined by the rear leg. It's a very defensive style of sword play.

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+Javan Maes Indeed, and I think it was a method developed specifically in the knowledge that you may not be able to use typical footwork and distance to remain safe like you would in a rapier fight. Simply because most rapier fights took place where there was a little room to manoeuvre, but a sabre/spadroon bout will often take place in melee scenarios where you have troops at your back and sides. One of our favourite sparring drills for this is where the defender starts rear foot backed up against a wall, and it must remain so. We then also do the same thing where they start that way but can advance from it to fight there way out if they can and want to.

[@javanmaes7850]

+Academy of Historical Fencing Yes it is great for fighting in groups. The tradition of slipping the leg in English/Scottish swordsmanship seems to have started very early. If you explore the early English material like Swetnam and Silver, the concept of striking and flying out, or lunging and slipping out of distance has always been a staple of the style. Later on in Broadsword and Backsword manuals like Wylde, Lonnergan, McBane (who actually uses the st georges guard as an engaging guard, like open fight in Silver!) and Thomas Page, its essentially the same style as later saber, except they make more use of traversing footwork and attacks instead of the later more linear style. My theory is that the reason Traversing attacks are less seen in the later Military manuals is more because it's more effective when teaching beginners. Direct attacks tend to have a higher percentage of being effective in free fencing., and it takes years to develop a sense of judging distance when you move off the line. The military styles seem to just be simplified Broadsword and Backsword play with a more modern pedagogy. For example, the left hand is often kept on the hip instead of using the older methods of the left hand for "Equilibrio", the attacks are linear and simple, the cuts are numbered for learning purposes, and it's one of the most effective styles I've ever practiced because of that simplicity. Roworth and Taylor borrow their traversing diagram from Thomas Page, who is worth taking a look at out of interest!

[@julianjames2899]

where did you acquire your training sabres?

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+Julian Larocque Black Fencer in Spain.

[@prospero768]

So, reading Roworth, I wasn't able to make heads nor tails of his chapter on thrusting. He's using some Italian terminology that comes out of nowhere and is never explained. Will you do a video on the thrusts, or can you recommend a source that explains them? Also, my print of the Art of Defence, much like the online version, seems to be missing almost all of the plates. Would you know where to look for them?

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+Michal Lukáč Angelo was a student of the highly regard Italian master Angelo, and unsurprisingly uses many terms and concepts derived from his school. It is a pain yes. I will get a video together on this soon yes. The best copy of Roworth I have seen is the reprint of the 1798 version that was done by Keith Farrell, it is quite complete and not expensive. I think all other versions lack a few plates at least.

[@prospero768]

Academy of Historical Fencing Angelo, of L'ecole des armes fame? As for Art of Defence on Foot, I procured a copy by Forgotten Books, which unfortunately seems to be a straign reprint of the book available on google books. The Keith version, is it the one available on UK Amazon, published by Fallen Rook?

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+Michal Lukáč Yes, the same Angelo, the family who for three generations taught swordsmanship in the UK, and whose system eventually became the official British military standard in the 1820's. Roworth published works for the Angelo's also. Yes that is the version you want.

[@prospero768]

+Academy of Historical Fencing I see, I was just making sure as I find multiple people by that name. Is L'ecole something you'd recommend to get and read in order to understand pointwork in Roworth?

[@imstupid880]

How do you parry a low inside thrust? I don't think your wrist can twist the right way for that.

[@matthewpham9525]

Either a half circle guard, or a low inside guard.

[@DantePopple]

when they go low, we go high!

[@omari2306]

Use an overhau cut, and redirect the thrust away from your body, then counter with a thrust of yours by moving outside of his angle after you redirected his thrust. In combat to death this will save your life, at the end only muscle memory matters under stress in life to death situation.

[@xenophon5354]

I'm not sure if you've done a video on this, but could you briefly describe the different types of points used on steel sparring swords? Do you have a personal preference? Is one clearly better than the others?

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+Tom Rundell Do you mean the tips? As in blunt, rolled, flared, etc?

[@xenophon5354]

Academy of Historical Fencing Yes exactly.

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+Tom Rundell Yep I can certainly do that. New videos have been sparse in the last two weeks because I have had flu and therefore my voice has gone. I should be able to get it done early next week.

[@xenophon5354]

Academy of Historical Fencing Oh, I was only seeking a comment on it here, but that'd be great! I haven't seen any other of the HEMA channels talk about it in any detail so I think that would be helpful. Get well, man!

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+Tom Rundell Always happy to take suggestions for videos. It's better that way, answering a useful topic like that on a comment and it will just get lose in a sea of comments. Make a video and its for all to see and discuss, and it is an important subject.

[@aleksandrrakowski4953]

My friends told me, Sabres are very long, as a 5”7 man, would I be able to fight with a sabre?

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

That is not accurate at all. Sabres vary immensely in length, they can be very short or very long and everything in between. I (teaching this lesson) am also 5'7". To put it in perspective, the average height of a soldier at the battle of waterloo was approx 5'8". The sabres used on foot in the Napoloenic era were also typically a bit shorter than later period equivelents. Yes you absolutely can fight with a sabre and are of typical stature for them. Anyone of any height can use sabres, so long as they avoid excessively large examples if they are shorter.

[@libaedunto4875]

where can I buy those practice swords? I forgot the name of that fabricator

[@Lacerik]

Are you intentionally doing this work outside of distance or am I missing something?

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+John Previtera Most of the work here is in distance. Bear in mind that the curved blade veers off when parried and then looks much further away than it is. Where thrusts are made straight like in prime you can see it reaches far enough to hit the body and penetrate several inches. The distance is perhaps a whisker more than normal because I told Esther not to move her back foot as to keep the framing for the video. My reach is a little more than hers, and it is therefore always me setting the distance, despite the fact that she is the one attacking.

[@sirupate]

Where do you get your practice sabres from?

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+Simon Hengle These are from Black Fencer in Spain, and have resellers in the US and Canada if you are that side of the water. Our steel sabres come from Peter Regenyei in Hungary.

[@sirupate]

+Academy of Historical Fencing; Fabulous, I'm a UK man I'll look them up, I have downloaded Roworth to have a good look, many thanks for your help

[@sherrattpemberton6089]

+Academy of Historical Fencing Have you had any experience with the Universal swords 1803 infantry officers sabre?

[@sirupate]

+Sherratt Pemberton No, are they good?

[@karkkosvolfe]

Saber thrusts can be hooked over, under or around due to the curve. Same idea as to he Shamshir or Chinese Saber. I would point out that most of the saber techniques are simplified. This was due to the large conscript nature of the time. A better concept of refinement is late medieval techniques for Messer combat.

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

Thrusting using the curve is in the British sabre system, and specifically mentioned as an advantage over the broadsword. It's just a more advanced part of thrusting, and so would be covered in a later lesson. Sabre/broadsword is a streamlined method of instruction and technique, but I would not say that its simplification is a bad thing, or at all related to conscript armies. British broadsword/sabre has a long lineage that goes back a lot further than say the Napoleonic era. As well as the fact that these systems were not originally for conscript soldiers.

[@karkkosvolfe]

Academy of Historical Fencing Valid point. And interesting, as I am not familiar with British Saber systems. Technically, by the 18th Century swordmanship wasn't the artform or the 14-16th Centuries. Meyer and other masters of the Late Medieval period clearly explained this even at their time. In regards to the push for a simplification for the masses. I do believe some people retained the skillset of the old masters. Yet, it clearly wasn't the norm in the American or other manuals I personally have read. One such example is the change in parries and winding from the flat to the edge. Parrying with the edge, paraphrasing Meyer, is the lazy and inept man's defense. The flat provides clear and fluid lines of attack and easier use of winding or other handwork. If you parry with the edge you damage the blade, cease to threaten the opponent and lose overall control of the exchange.

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

I wouldn't agree with a reduction in art form, not at all. I do also study Meyer, and have studied and practiced many earlier styles including the messer, early sword and buckler forms etc. I believe the changes were simply for efficiency. With an increase in the common use of the sword solo, predominately linear approaches to swordsmanship make a lot more sense. I don't think that has anything to do with simplification or a loss of art. Far from it. Masters of many arts claim that things used to be better, were better back in their day, art has been lost etc etc. Usually they are simply hanging on to old ways. That doesn't mean they were necessarily better or worse. 18th century swordsmanship is an incredible art form, and its training methods and form has highly refined. It wasn't a simplification for the masses at all. The masses and commoners used a different style altogether, as outlined by many sources at the time. Fighting as cudgel players. The form shown in 18th century manuals was a highly evolved art form for those who practiced regularly and religiously. Many of which were highly skilled masters. There is a tendency to think that with change things either get better or worse. They can of course, but they can also simply change because of context. The increase in use of linear footwork, solo sword use, lack of two handed sword usage, increase in complex guards, these are have an effect on the style and approach to a style. One is no less an art form than the other, they are simply different in their approach.

[@martinds93]

Those are wooden swords?? If not, what are they made off??

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+Martin dos Santos No they are nylon plastic, made by Black Fencer in Spain.

[@Ciprian-IonutPanait]

5:05 wouldn't that also allow for a counter? I think it is better

[@Boruta46]

The thrust which is low is a particular problem ...it takes too much time to rotate the blade into hanging parry. Also the speed and reach of lounge in the thrust .. there is just not enough reaction time to retreat :(

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

Its an incredibly fast parry that I use very regularly, I don't see how it could be remotely slow?

[@nicr589]

i finally know how to block thrusts phew

[@bartangel4867]

This is a good video and it makes sense. however (I'm by no means expert or even a beginner and I never took a lesson) a person will rarely start with the trust. they will more likely start with a cut and then when swords meet they will turn it into a thrust. If they have your weak on their strong it won't be quite as easy to block. At the same time they will be threatening with Tatar cut from the other side and you will not know which is coming the thrust or the cut. also there is usually more bent in the most sabers than the one shown here. and the thrust does not have to be with knuckles up and palm to the side. it can just as easy be made palm down and knuckles to the side. That will allow you to make use of the bend in the sword in a thrust so it is not going to be as easy to block. You are one hundred percent right you don't need lots of strength to move it aside because as you said all of the energy is directed forward when someone does a thrust. but in most situations defending a thrust would not be quite as easy as shown here.

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

There are several kinds of thrusts, but this video is not about kinds of thrusts it is about the methods of defending thrusts. Thrusts can start as a thrust or start as a cut and move into a thrust, both methods are used, but again this lessson was about the defence, and so the attack used was the basic version for the sake of simplicity in showing the concepts, it is very normal to thrust straight from guard though. Parrying with the weak is not a problem against a straight thrust and is a common and perfectly decent method. If they started their thrust as a cut then you would move to parry it as a cut anyway, and adjust accordingly. As for the curve of the sabres, far from it. These sabres have around 4cm of curve, which is actually well above average. There were time periods where particularly curved and particularly straight were very common, but this is well above average. Many 19th century sabres have just .5-1.5cm curve.

[@bartangel4867]

Ok I'm just asking. what I'm saying thrusts are not almost useless in a saber fight. If its ok to ask I would like to see a video on how to use saber when your left handed and if no body would like to see it by itself you can always add a part when you show how to fight against left handed person. I would at least like to know if having your lead leg outside of opponents lead leg ( when fighting opponent in opposite stands such as left vs right) help you like it would in unarmed combat? and if there are more things that you can do against the fighter in opposite stands that I don't know about

[@bartangel4867]

@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing when I said strong on weak I meant as the swords meet as opponents deliver the most basic cut. if one of them has his strong on opponents area that is very slightly closer to the hilt but in an area that is nonetheless further from the hilt than the first fighter. From that point the first fighter can deliver a thrust to second fighter's face. I think this thrust would be hard to block because most of the first fighters sword would already be passed the second fighter's sword. on the other hand if a first fighter would try to use cut from there while perfectly viable he would need to knock opponent's sword out of the way first. But he would not need to do it if he was delivering a thrust I'm sorry if this sounds convoluted but this is the only way I know how to describe it

[@weissschnee2772]

It's worth noting that the sabre guard's point is not threatening the attacker who is thrusting. This very subtle differences of the point's position make all the difference in the world. In 2:50, the attacker had her point close inline to the defender. When thrusting, if the person's guard point is offline, the time required to bring the point from offline to online is enough for the opponent to recognize that a thrust is coming; we can already see her preparing her thrust. My classical fencing instructor tells me to always keep the foil's point inline and threatening else an advanced opponent doesn't feel threaten and can choose to come into close combat since the point isn't threatening. I've already been disarmed and stab in close combat enough to keep my point threatening. One can also do a circular parry against a thrust. The different between a circular parry and an opposing parry (what is used against cuts and is natural for humans to do) is that a circular parry redirects whereby an opposing parry blocks. Of course, sabre play is different than foil play, so I don't have much meat in my statement already.

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+Weiss Schnee You have some valid points certainly, but there are more to consider. The debate over whether to remain point online or not is not something universally agreed on throughout history, not by any means. The first reason is because there are more ways to threaten with a blade than just the point. in the Roworth manual for example the tip is held much higher, unless using a spadroon. which is more thrust orientated (though not exclusively). Keeping the blade online can also encourage closing, and blade grabs, and make open hand parries easier for the opponent. I taught rapier for many years before I took up a serious study of sabre, so I do know what you mean. Capo Ferro who I taught from for example, would have you keep the point online to threaten with it almost all the time. But I would say the priorities change a little with sabre. The shorter blades, the way they can drive and beat through, the risk of exceptionally fast counter cuts. With curved blades we also initiate point offline, and the mere rotation of the hilt whilst engaged brings the point online.

[@weissschnee2772]

Academy of Historical Fencing Gah! Debates everywhere! They shall never stop spawning! Oh, well. They represent the complexity of the topic. "Keeping the blade online can also encourage closing, and blade grabs, and make open hand parries easier for the opponent." If the opponent's non-sword hand is in front (the default location for rapierists), then the consideration of off-hand usages is as important as the opponent's sword. I wouldn't be surprise that a hand on the hip (the default location for the non-sword hand) can suddenly use off-hand usages at certain situation, though the time will be longer in comparison with the hand in front. Back to the topic: I would love to do an analysis of comparing the many ways of how a sword guard (mainly single handed), either on or offline with the point, can threaten the opponent. "The first reason is because there are more ways to threaten with a blade than just the point." This way we can know the strengths and weaknesses of each guards, thus finding tactics to face against them and glowing our martial understanding.

[@robinhersom7383]

+Weiss Schnee Roworth does actually include circular parries in his system, but points out (rightly, in my experience) that they are usually too cumbersome for a heavy blade such as sabre, and more useful for the light-bladed spadroon.

[@adityafirdaus3881]

She is so beautiful

[@ME-hm7zm]

Observation: You bobble around too much while talking. It's a bit distracting, makes you seem nervous. I comment on this because it's something I tend to do as well, and have been called out on it before. Otherwise, good show.

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+Michael Eversberg II None of us are perfect :-) It's a product of being in front of a camera rather than a group of students, but I am always working to improve the videos.

[@ME-hm7zm]

Academy of Historical Fencing It's no big thing. I tend to do the same, but this is on account of being a toewalker more than anything else.

[@F3EDER]

Haha, I've had the same critique directed my way. They said that my upper body was still while my lower body were pretty much dancing. It is pretty easy to get rid of though.

[@SmigGames]

For me, walking around helps me think in front of an audience. I feel like it's harder for me to look relaxed while standing still. Of course, that's because I'm not the greatest speaker, but there's something to be said about moving around a bit.

[@ahjlabawaba9508]

instructions not clear. Got stabbed

[@rahulshubh8103]

Sanatan shastra vidya is much better

[@baileysmooth]

Do: 1. Quick introduction 2. Pose/demonstrate problem. 3. Demonstrate solution 4. Explain 5. Revise. Not: 1. Waffle on for two minutes. 2. Get to great content.

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+Bailey Smooth You might not want the 'waffle', but there is a lot of information which needs to be shared, and people like to have shared to understand context, the wider scenarios and why we are using them. If people haven't got the patience to last two minutes hearing that then perhaps they are in the wrong hobby.