Do You HATE Frames Per Second?

[@RetroReviewYT]

Holy smokes! Thanks for the acknowledgement. Although I wasn’t the one who fixed it to compile on 10.4, I suggested the change to make life easier for bringing new versions of the ClassiCube client to our PowerPC Macs. It originally specifically required Leopard to compile.

[@NatetheNintendofan]

Oh man I thought you were saying hey smokers Dragau 1

[@linusgsebastian]

Am I the only one who thought it took 55 minutes to boot? Thought it was a Timelapse 😂

[@ActionRetro]

hahaha i should have been more clear! real time, oh yeah!

[@linusgsebastian]

No prob. FYI I’m pretty sure fractions of a second should be in the format SS.xx rather than SS:xx. Not a big deal tho.

[@charliesretrocomputing]

I thought it was a timelapse too hahaha

[@MidnightThunderYT]

I also thought it was a timelapse.

[@brunof1996]

​@@linusgsebastian those are not fractions of a second, they are frames. It's timecode HH:MM:SS:FF

[@JayJay-88]

Great video as always. ☺ Tiger was amazing, I remember putting a SSD in my Mac Mini back in 2006ish (whooping 32 gigs) and it booted in about 5 seconds. Never seen that boot performance before or after. 😁

[@colinstech6601]

Hey Shaun! Nice vid! Great to see these old machines becoming somewhat nice to use!

[@SockyNoob]

Your icon is fucking adorable. Who drew it?

[@floodmaster]

Really goes to show how fast you can get a program going when it's in C!

[@bland9876]

i've been told assembly is much faster than any other language for some reason.

[@flintfrommother3gaming]

​@@bland9876 Anything that doesn't run on hardware from 1985 runs as good or better than Assembly unless it's written by a god.

[@smd89xx]

@@flintfrommother3gaming you need to be a god to understand what the fuck be going on in assembly so it checks out

[@chainswordcs]

@@flintfrommother3gaming eh, maybe extend that to the mid 90s (like the Game Boy) but i would tend to agree. due to the sheer complexity of remotely modern hardware, writing anything in ASM doesn't make sense unless you're for some reason required to (like maybe a rom hack)

[@TobyCowles]

@@bland9876 eh, that's mostly right but it's an over simplification. Good assembly is the fastest but you can get good assembly in many ways, for example C compiles down to assembly with something like gcc and now a day for complex programs and modern architectures compilers tend to write faster assembly then humans. Assembly allows you complete control over the code, you can fully harness the architecture of the CPU and with good assembly coding tricks/techniques you can maximize every cycle. The people who make compilers are constantly trying to implement these tricks so that when you compile something like C you get nice assembly. Scripting languages like Python or JavaScript, are slower because they don't fully compile instead they have an interpreter the program line by line which minimizes the tricks the compiler can pull. Something like Java is weird because it compiles to bytecode which is then interpreted so it exists in a sort of middle ground.

[@CommodoreFan64]

I'm not a Minecraft fan in the slightest, but that is really cool to see what proper coding can do on these old machines. 👍

[@charliesretrocomputing]

So you are a Commodore 64 fan??

[@Rau-Dr]

@@charliesretrocomputing Who doesn't like a nice 8-bit Computer?

[@sleora]

I agree, Minecraft java edition is the best of the other versions but on less efficient machines it makes you feel it was coded by chimpanzees!!! It mostly because, like in Minecraft, they stacked the versions on top of each other, only removing what's obsolete and/or not essential the the system.

[@rubberduck4966]

@@charliesretrocomputing You want to make a minecraft C64 Edition? But here a Apple-II-GS Variant would be cooler

[@dominicus9891]

funnily enough, the original creator of minecraft's code was terribly unoptimized from the beginning, and updates upon updates have been added on top of that spaghetti, it's a SUPER cpu intensive game lmao

[@kkolakowski]

It's interesting... OS X Tiger indeed booted very fast. I remember when I had my first Hackintosh - which is similarly cursed configuration like this one... with AMD Athlon 64 3500+ (it had 1.8Ghz clock) - and it booted in just 18 seconds! Which was ~2-3 times faster than Windows XP that I had at this time. I loved it and it was one of the things I showed off to my friends to show superiority of OS X over Windows 🤓 (I used both back then) Later in Win 8 & 10 MS used "tricks" (basically hibernates semi-booted OS state so "cold" boots are not really that cold) to make it super fast - way faster than modern macOS cold boots (which on the other way around - became longer and longer with every OS release, even when switched to SSDs!) I think that currently Apple doesn't really prioritize cold boot times as most Macs are using sleep anyway.

[@bradnelson3595]

I've been playing around with ClassiCube on my stock G4 Titanium 867 MHz ever since you featured it in a video a while back. It runs well.

[@retropuffer2986]

Amazing work ActionRetro. Especially when you factor this is a mid-90s computer!

[@mr.number9279]

Would love to see Classic Cube on some of the other Macs/laptops you've worked with in the past. It was actually really crisp.

[@selzzaW]

I'd be very curious to see how the Halo Mac demo runs on this thing. It's apparently running above the system requirements.

[@scurvy3113]

This please

[@scurvy3113]

Blood gulch for LYFE

[@jeffsims7386]

If you get ahold of the right version, very well I would assume. It was originally designed for Mac.

[@imselfaware419]

Odd how the top comment isn't a unfunny: "wOw JuSt lIkE mY pC!!!"

[@SnipE_mS]

Always makes my Saturday morning exciting to watch these

[@hessex1899]

You should have a go at getting a pistorm to work in a Mac SE. :) I put one in my Amiga 1200 and it's crazy fast.

[@AltimaNEO]

That's pretty funny! I remember 90s Macs were horrible with regards to load times. Also the loud grinding those hard disks made.

[@ElectronicInspiration]

Brings a whole new meaning to "Minecraft 3D Shareware v1.34"

[@draggonhedd]

Love these videos, and i love upgrading stuff welll beyond sane, but Sean never adjusting his CRT geometry is really distracting hahah

[@JoelRosenfeld]

I love the title of this video. When I was kid my father had an 8600 that I marveled at. I learned everything I could about it, and sometimes I feel that my knowledge of computers more or less stopped there. In my mind every computer has a daughter cards and is extremely expandable and have an amazingly well designed case.

[@QUANTUMJOKER]

You use Minecraft to test ultra-upgraded nineties Macs; I use Half-Life 2 and the cl_showfps command to test graphics cards in my cheesegrater Mac Pros. Source games are actually an excellent tool for benchmarking graphics cards in Mac OS.

[@erinwiebe7026]

Very impressive! Let's see a 68k version next. :)

[@coochie8670]

Damn, Erin. Baddie in the chat.

[@benotsilent6703]

0:34 - this is the entire reason I subbed to your channel months ago. Thank you.

[@bentendo6464]

Reminds me of playing Minecraft alpha on my 2.4GHz P4 machine back in the day. Maybe 10-15 fps, but good fun!

[@bf0189]

Reminds me of classic Druaga1 we miss you Druaga1! A true pioneer in this absurdity

[@mustasheolll2020]

I find it fascinating to see such an old comp running a modern looking operating system + with the chime before the modern one…Just hits different.

[@MsMarco6]

Wow ClassiCube looks awesome. We've come a long way since I was struggling to get 15fps on my imac G5 back in the day.

[@stevencarlson5422]

Its actually amazing how well it can run just crazy that you can get Minecraft to run on such an old machine

[@jobalisk6649]

Can confirm classicube runs beautifully on my speced out emac 1.25ghz as well, and thats with only a gb of ram and 32mb of graphics ram

[@JamesnLollify]

I love all the goofy upgrades and Minecraft shenanigans

[@xerzy]

Now I'm wondering if Stevenarella could run well on this... I wonder if there are any incompatible crates or if porting would be straight-up. Also there's Minosoft, it's Java but it sure is working better for me right now bug-wise.

[@georgeh6856]

Control-click in OSX will emulate the second mouse button, although having an actual two-button mouse especially for games is much, much better. I don't know whether control-click would have worked in the ported Minecraft.

[@Mainyehc]

Also, seeing how he’s running Mac OS X-freaking-Tiger (!!), it should be fully compatible with the Mighty Mouse. ;)

[@deglecj]

14:25 still better than my macbook

[@joshj88]

The thing mostly holding it back is the system bus, but it sure is neat to see it running a heavy game.

[@anidnmeno]

these are my favorite shenanigans

[@patrickcecil1229]

Thank You Sean you always have the best tips for things to run on our old Macs. Had no idea Minecraft would run on a G4. Going to try this on my PowerBook G4.

[@ArniesTech]

Retro hardware never ceases to amaze me 😁💪

[@livefreeprintguns]

I miss those old beige towers and OS9.

[@Gadgetman1989]

Shawn I gotta say I love your videos, they inspire me to tinker with my Mac Quadra 630.... Well... All I have left is just the motherboard, mouse, and keyboard, thankfully the keyboard is the only thing in really bad shape...

[@RowanBird779]

The fact that this machine from 1997 can run Mac OS X better than my modern(ish) computer is insane

[@Xenotypic]

hope you get the subs you deserve, m8. been watching since the floppy raid vid lol

[@SaccoBelmonte]

That ClassiCube is some serious wizardry. Imagine if something like that was released back then. It would change the apple gaming landscape completely.

[@eDoc2020]

Is the old 1.2.5 PPC optimized release still out? I backported it to Windows and managed close to 30fps on a 500MHz Pentium III. I wonder why this 1GHz G4 isn't as fast, maybe it's the slower bus speed. I'll need to try ClassiCube and see how it runs. It would be great if it can run on an original Voodoo.

[@swolfington]

that performance delta is bananas. i wonder if ClassiCube would run on the stock hardware?

[@methanoid]

Do a video multibooting iMac G5 - Mac OS Tiger and Sorbet, Debian and MorphOS. THAT would be software shenanigans

[@Mainyehc]

I have a beige PowerMac G3, and if I get it to boot (I believe it’s getting stuck at the Open Firmware prompt because of a dead clock battery), I absolutely must get a BlueSCSI v2 and print myself one of those nice face plates (and modify it to make a replacement one for my optical drive, as it’s missing it and looks fugly as hell). You published a link for those files on the other video, right?

[@madmax2069]

Please please remove that battery, do not keep it in the unit, it will eventually leak and destroy the board. Do a pram reset after removing it (command-option-p-r keys). I run mine without a Pram battery without issue (except for the fact it does keep time).

[@OrganistAnthony]

The startup chime sounds so much better at the original pitch like on this machine.

[@emoneytrain]

The 9600 was my dream machine as a teen in the 90s.

[@vjcodec]

I love Shawn’s over the top body language! I wonder if he orders his dinner In a restaurant like that?

[@TicoDK]

This remembered me when I fist tried to run GTA 3 on a AMD K6 with VIA onboard graphics... Also it runs better than Pokemon scarlet/violet on the Switch.

[@junior-gamer-410]

Maybe could try a superflat world

[@Dark_Afton759]

This video gives me nostalgia of playing Minecraft on the 18 year old pc from my parents in 2019 before i got my current beast of a machine

[@elmariachi5133]

You could also try Open JRE instead of Sun's original Java. Usually the original's performance is better, but why not try? :)

[@Reaperman4711]

2:27 every time a youtuber says 'Square Space' the stupid 'Square Pegs' theme song gets stuck in my head for an extended period. 😁

[@shlomomarkman6374]

Regarding old PCs, i can't find any description of one of the first computers i had access to. It was a laptop resembling a thinkpad (and probably IBM), running DOS, having monochrome amber screen and having a 386 or 486 Intel CPU. (The year was 1993 but it wasn't new). Do IBM created such device and what was it's model? Of the games on it, i remember running Wulfenstein 3d in monochrome.

[@Derpy1969]

There’s a way to disable the RAM check at boot to save time. I don’t know what it is. It might be a FW command or a keystroke.

[@devourerthegoop2887]

I wonder how all of those versions would run on the later G4 machines with two CPUs. Considering how much Java is CPU bound it could help, especially as they have a faster bus and memory

[@urikaufman4258]

Am I the only one who likes the looks of the Power Macintosh? The newer G3, G4 looks great but the older beige Macs are soooo elegant.

[@jibixyyt]

I play this version daily on my Celeron M and it's lovely, it runs smoothly at 40-250fps

[@Jackpkmn]

Command+Click I've found is a pretty common emulation of a right click.

[@aswxwing]

Minecraft PPC, so silly but love it.

[@nickolaswilcox425]

dont know if im remembering right, but i think you can press control and click instead of needing a right click on these versions, i used to play with a track pad on a macbook so suffice to say having a different way to place blocks was preferable

[@fsfs555]

That cold boot RAM test is what took the longest. A reboot would be at least 10 seconds faster to the desktop. And Java has always been obscenely slow. It's nice that the code is portable, but even fast computers chug hard trying to get through Java. Any time I had to run something with Java, even on computers well into the mid-'00s, I just started the app and then went for a coffee and maybe it would be done when I got back (if it didn't crash or if my version of Java was off by .1 and so the app wouldn't run on it). It has been around since like 1995. I don't get how it's still so painfully slow, even today.

[@Dreams_Of_Lavender]

We need someone to continue to build on top of classicube and recreate more versions of Minecraft to be playable on old Macs, lmao. That would be AMAZING. Java was never an efficient programming environment to actually run apps in but it is portable as long as an appropriate Java VM is present, that is its strength.

[@VSDeluxe]

That's more power that we have in our work PCs that are running on Win 10 with 2002 hardware.

[@Mr-Sleet]

I like how classicube can run on old hardware, it (was) a pc steam game.

[@jonwhatmore5151]

It is the pull-in of the camera itself that causes the pulsed moire effect. Revel in it!

[@Daktyl198]

I wonder if the developer of the custom PowerPC version could implement well known performance mods into his build, like Sodium, Starlight, and Lithium

[@Daktyl198]

@@zenithowo yes, but as far as I’m aware that’s mostly because they didn’t want to do the work of backporting it rather than any technical limitation. I could be wrong, though.

[@ashisharky]

I wonder if the classicube developers forgot to deltatime some calculations because i dont think youre supposed to run that fast

[@TaijanDean]

Now, all we need is a port of Minecraft for the Mac Plus or SE/30.

[@oscarcharliezulu]

That was a lot of fun to watch

[@kloroformd]

You should make a public server from it and standby with a fire extinguisher.

[@marblewarble47]

great stuff, man! love your videos :-)

[@john_ace]

I doubt that power is a problem on this mac. I have two of them and they have no signs of the PSU dying. The PSU in the 9600 is quite powerful with 390W total power and up to 41A on the 5V rail. Moden PSU often have less amps on the 5V rail (a modern 750W PSU has often only 15A-20A on the 5V rail)... and may not work reliably!

[@eDoc2020]

And also the SSD and card will be using under 5 watts. If it has enough power for a DVD drive it has enough for an SSD.

[@mikesilver2283]

Sean, why you not stretching picture on whole surface of CRT monitor? Why there is an unused black stripes on screen - they could be used too i think.

[@dhpbear2]

Do I hate the IDEA of "Frames Per Second? I love it as long as it's a high number!

[@magmaxt]

It's possible run minecraft 1.16+ in PPC based macs? it would be interesting to see how G4 and G5 macs behave running the new terrain generation.

[@iClone101]

IIRC, the problem is the Java versions required to run newer Minecraft versions aren't compatible. Java 8 is required for 1.12-1.17, and Java 17 is required for 1.18+. Java 5 is the last version officially released for PPC, while Java 7 is technically compatible but rarely works properly.

[@bluesillybeard]

@@iClone101 Java is open source (iirc), so theoretically someone could compile Java 17 (That's a version of Java from only a few months ago!) for PPC without too much trouble. In practice, who knows how feasible that actually is.

[@handlandj]

I'm surprised there don't exist more powerful mac-flashable PCI gpus. Also...is there any AGP-to-PCI adapters that are compatible? I'm not sure... but imagine slotting a 9800 or an x800 in here! There's a PCI version of the geforce 8400gs, but I doubt that version ever was flashable. Oh if only! I heard there was a pci radeon 9600 in the power mac G5 2ghz... do those ever show up? Sooo many questions! Also, is the ram in 70ns or 60ns EDO mode when in OSX? Lower latency is better, your throughput increases! Might buy an entire extra frame per second! After all, MC is CPU bound... but also very RAM bound. CPU speed here is good, RAM size is good, but RAM SPEED...well... And can we assume this is the mach 5 motherboard?

[@Aeduo]

That classicube version looks like it has even less going on than the 3DS or pi versions. I wonder if the pi version could be made to run on that. If it's java, it might just be optimized enough to work ok. Although I think it's based on like version 1.1 or 1.2 or something.

[@Vlamat67]

Si vede che sei un grande fan di Minecraft....quando provi un Mac usi sempre questo software.....che libidine...

[@jeffsims7386]

Did you try command + click with the single button??

[@memadmax69]

I think you can knock off 24 seconds off that boot time because its sitting there looking at the SCSI bus. Is it properly terminated by any chance?

[@mikegoggin570]

I've never heard of ClassiCube. WOW!

[@95Comics]

THose are a very specific set of shenanigans! lol

[@michaeljones6256]

Can you possibly tell me which macs come with 64bit pci graphics cards. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[@kenero_4227]

Some mfs would still prefer this over a windows computer 💀💀

[@lordofhyphens]

This is kind of a Ship of Theseus situation here, but wouldn't it be more accurate to date the system closer to when the processor card was first released (around 2002-2004)?

[@daemonspudguy]

I extensively played Minecraft on a MacBook, and can say that to place a block with a single button mouse on a Mac, you control click.

[@GEN9100]

Don't forget about the major system bus bottleneck.

[@quittessa1409]

Would lowering the resolution improve the performance of JavaMC?

[@silverfoenix]

I would have been surprised if I didn't see this video before yours! "Arch Linux on a 400 Mhz Pentium II! (feat. Minecraft) | WGEX" By WindowsG Electronics He managed to get the server running but with the same issues you mentioned! it needs processor power...

[@emilypeters8888]

I love machines from childhood

[@identityfor]

Lol Minecraft. I love this thx. Gonna be hitting that Minecraft tag for sure. Or die trying maybe lol.

[@JBBost]

Pulled out the big box of OSX and I was like "why did they install X-Men the movie onto their computer?!"

[@InitialiseDisk]

That’s actually really cool. I’d like to see if it would run on an unmodified Power Macintosh.

[@goclunker]

Not really. G4s were pretty powerful for their time, graphic cards sucked until after the g4 was gone, so without mods, anything under a 1.2ghz g4 and higher end graphics doesn’t have the grunt

[@InitialiseDisk]

@@goclunker Do you think a 33ghz processor could do it? 88mb.

[@goclunker]

@@InitialiseDisk lol no

[@InitialiseDisk]

@@goclunker haha that’s what i thought

[@IronwingTechHaven]

This is so awesome!

[@elfenmagix8173]

There is a Minecraft (i.5.2 - I think) compiled for the G4 and nother for the G5. The one for the G4 I ran on a 12in iBook G4 with 1.5GB of RAM and it was slow like yours. was. But on the Powerbook G4 with a 15in screen and 2GB of RAM ram a lot faster with an acceptable frame rate of slightly over 40fsp. There is very little differences between machines other than the RAM but I think it is the amount of RAM that gives the game a boost and not the CPU or GPU.. Just think, one can play Minecraft (pocket Ed.) on a 512MB/700MHz Raspberry Pi, one should be able to run Minecraft on g4 Mac despite the limitations of the machine.

[@dbranconnier1977]

I think the ARM processor in the Pi is a lot more efficient than the PowerPC G4.

[@eDoc2020]

RAM is definitely not the issue. I managed to squeeze over 20fps (in a favorable biome) in 1.2.5 on a Pentium III 500 with 256 megabytes of RAM. You can read the amount of RAM used on the debug screen and if it's well under the available RAM it doesn't make a difference.

[@zacharyschwanke7160]

Sean, would it be possible to make a modifyed version of windows 98 or windows 3.1 to run on a power pc g4 chip?

[@dbranconnier1977]

Windows 3.1 and 98 run on x86 CICS processors and not natively on PowerPC RISC processors. You might be able to get them to run on an emulator (DOSBox) or VirtualPC on the PowerMac or if you have an add-on 486 card. Also, I think there was a version of Microsoft Windows NT 4.0, Windows 2000 and IBM's OS/2 Warp 3 that could run on PowerPC.

[@zacharyschwanke7160]

@@dbranconnier1977wasn’t there a power Pc pc floating around for a while to?

[@dbranconnier1977]

@@zacharyschwanke7160 Yes, IBM made some. They had their own Unix named AIX that ran on them too. Not sure which other computer manufacturer also made some.

[@zacharyschwanke7160]

@@dbranconnier1977 wouldn’t those beable to run windows?

[@dbranconnier1977]

@@zacharyschwanke7160 yes, Windows NT 4.0 and I think Windows 2000.

[@ChrisCookTech]

14 year old me would have spent days playing Minecraft on that computer. Very cool.

[@puwazatza]

reminds me of playing Tomb Raider 2 on 7600/132

[@karkatvantas69420]

"Hey what FPS do you have?" "60" "Oh nice!" "No, not nice, its 60 Frames Per MINUTE." "Oh.."

[@teamredstudio7012]

Can't you do Ctrl+Click for right click? I think you can play with a one button mouse.

[@blendingsentinel4797]

I wanna see Minetest on this. Might be easier due to the source availability and generally better code base. (C++ and Lua rather than Java)