Rambling about chip degradation

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#Overclocking #Degradation

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

I don't like this video very much but it's not like I'll make a better one any time soon

[@jowarnis]

We are going to like it anyway, no worries!

[@Musonick]

Thank you so much for explaining us normal mortals this very interesting stuff!

[@estamnar6092]

I watch a lot of channels that take a very technical approach, so it doesn't bother me any lol. Looks good man.

[@akcesoriumpc6421]

better than nothing

[@mrjubby]

It's an awesome vid. Thanks for all the knowledge

[@CasualGamers]

Thanks for releasing this, it was great, even if you don't like it, we do.

[@DNAReader]

Basically every Bz video :)

[@danielhuckabone1214]

100% I learned a lot

[@GuestExtreme]

Brabão né meu, aprendendo muito aqui

[@mparagames]

Woah, didn't expect to see you here casual gamers!

[@CaveyMoth]

The fastest degradation of chips I've ever seen was when I bought some Doritos yesterday.

[@thepro8447]

bruh

[@jacobrzeszewski6527]

You wouldn’t have had that problem if you had just gotten Cool Ranch.

[@XxxTheCoolKidxxX]

Yo! This is funny🤣

[@brovid-19]

I will proudly say I chuckled at that

[@user-njyzcip]

I agree, that stuff doesn't last at all, turns into shit within a day

[@DRKdarkdex]

As an Electrical Engineer with a masters, I approve this video. Pretty well explained.

[@ZZstaff]

1:12 thermal Cycling 18:15 oxide breakdown 28:52 electromigration

[@Matricaria]

@@Neiva71 Except in order to have comprehension of each of those you need some comprehension of the others

[@Matricaria]

@cas curse If you already watched it, and you're back here again, did you really comprehend the subject matter?

[@Azraleee]

Hi Buildzoid, I'm both a trained physicist and chemist. If you have questions or want me to make a video going into more detail on Oxide Breakdown and Electromigration just shoot me a reply.

[@WouterVerbruggen]

@RectalDiscourse Dude buildzoid specifically asked for a comment if anyone could help

[@mrle0719]

@RectalDiscourse "degenerate waste of human organs" I really need to use that insult, it's really cool

[@mrsullied]

@RectalDiscourse nobody feels your pain. We put our phones down and... You know... Live nice lives. Try it.

[@Sophistry0001]

@RectalDiscourse username checks out

[@BeamMonsterZeus]

@RectalDiscourse You feign giving advice for someone else to be taken seriously on the internet, while simultaneous and ironically making an example of yourself for how not to be taken seriously at all. There's no room in hell for all the psychological baggage you seem to have.

[@PaulHawke1337]

10/10 ramblings.

[@penumbrum3135]

Video uploaded 50min ago. Comment is 1 week ago. Way to go KZbin.

[@nezu_cc]

Maybe he got access to the video before it was public?

[@PaulHawke1337]

@@penumbrum3135 It's all the magical powers of patreon.

[@Wushu-viking]

Very good explanation. That is the reason why I'm undervoting/underpowering my 1080 Ti down the point it does perform 5-10% less than stock settings (but plenty enough for me). But use SO much less power. 80-100W less. Having a GTX 1080 Ti use 150-160W is really nice. 60c max on air with very low noise. And the knowledge of much less degradation. Also always undervolting my CPUs when doing stock speed. Undervolting is possible on most chips, because the stock volts are normally set high(to be stable with even the worst binned silicons). Undervolting also saves you money on a bigger cooler and on the electric bill. But yeah... undervolting plus a bigger cooler is the best for longevity. I have a retro rig with a QX6850 (12 years old) that at stock freq, can be undervoltet quite a bit. So must still be in in good nic ;)

[@karl9791]

I use i3 530. Still rocking. No GPU and 3 Gb RAM overclocked. Stock cooler. 9 years almost 10. Playing arkham assylum :)

[@Shadower2014]

@@karl9791 whats the point of keeping an old processor alive for so much time? Like, idk where u from, but in Brazil we pay at least 3 times more in eletronics and we still dont want to keep the same cpu for 10 years.

[@karl9791]

@@Shadower2014 no one want keep it for 10 years. For me, the ideal would be swap every launch announcement. But is what it is. My point about my cpu is simple, intel have a healthy long life. And I use it almost 24/7. So.. Just that. And I have another pc. New one. Waiting just for the rtx 3080. And still no plans for rework in the old one, maybe some change in the storage... Maybe. Idk.

[@MovementCultivation]

Modern GPU's like the 1080ti doesnt degrade like CPU chip does. Linus made a video about this.

[@Wushu-viking]

@@MovementCultivation All electronics degrade. Just the variable how quickly.. And actually the 1080 Ti might degrade faster than a smaller GPU die (like a 1070) especially if loaded with many thermal cycles. Any big die GPU chip generally degrade faster than the smaller ones with many thermal cycles. But As long as you use it within Specs (stock settings) it should have no problem lasting for years (5-7 yrs) Keep thermals and voltage as low as possible, and you gain less degredation and longer lifespan. A way to check chip degradation, is to try running it low as possible voltage vs highest clockspeed as brand new, and then 3 years after, try it again. It might need a bit more voltage to run at the same clockspeed it could when new. Meaning its degraded. Might still be okay to run perfectly within specs, but degraded compared to when new. Memory is a more fragile thing with modern graphics cards. Nvidia cards do not have memory temp reading and I know GDDR6(X) run hot. The new cards give you speed.. but not lifespan. Nvidia has no intention on making these last for 5+ years. (Id be surpriced if more than half of the RTX 30xx cards still works fine in 6-7 years) Nvidia knows the market demands Performance now. Not long term endurance. Not overclocking the memory will be a good idea. Downclocking it a bit will give it a cooler longer life. Especially if its going to be put at hard work.

[@teddygoboom1]

24:27 all of buildzoid's chips "I can't believe you've done this"

[@BitterCynical]

Room temperature can also be like 5C when you're the extra ghetto type of overclocker who just opens the window in the winter for extra low ambient temperatures since chilled water cooling or dry ice is too expensive.

[@PainterVierax]

It depends where you live :D

[@thecatdaddy1981]

@@PainterVierax Norway here. Managed to get the water temp in my loop to 7C by opening the window. My 1080 Ti was chillin at 18C under full load overclocked. It's pretty dank

[@sangwonpark8967]

5Ghz on a R5 2600 using an air cooler gang

[@TOASTEngineer]

Just put your computer outside bro.

[@gamechanger2324]

Theres no way you hit 5G off an air cooler.....what voltage are you using to hit 5G & whats your fps gain if so?

[@mmbr20]

Hey BZ just wanted to say i really appreciate you going over this topic in great detail. There are too many people on forums spouting about high voltages/temperatures but cannot explain why. Thank you

[@KuraIthys]

-digs out my Atari 800XL¬ Ah, the days when CPU's had no cooling whatsoever (not even a heatsink) and ran at 5 volts - just like everything else in a computer. XD To be fair, there ARE stories of overheating from that era. But it's usually a design with extremely poor airflow and an unusually hot component. (one of the rare components hot enough to require a heatsink) In fact, the most likely thing to overheat in that era would be your computer's power supply... By the way, if you have an old 8 bit system for some reason... Don't trust those old power supplies. Although they may still work, for many computers they're so cheaply made that when they do blow up (when, not if) they'll take most of the circuitry of the computer with them. Given the age of the systems, that's not something you can reasonably fix...

[@williamforbes6919]

5v single supply, a huge step forwards over requiring -5v and -12v rails.

[@PainterVierax]

@@williamforbes6919 In ATX the -5V rail was used for ISA bus, it's gone for long time. The -12V rail is still used for RS-232 or RS-422 communication but now almost everything is connected through Ethernet or USB.

[@williamforbes6919]

@@PainterVierax I was referring to the 8086's power rail requirements.

[@PainterVierax]

@@williamforbes6919 this CPU itself (and its predecessor the 8085) only requires a single +5VCC to run. As I said, the negative voltage rails were used mostly for communication protocols outside the chip.

[@KuraIthys]

@@williamforbes6919 Some systems required more than that. But usually due to peripherals. The 800XL is 5 volts DC only (technically you can power it over USB) But the early c64 machines had both 5 volts DC and 12 volts AC. (blame the SID chip for that though; 6502 processors only need 5 volt DC) Interestingly you can still buy brand new 6502 family processors (z80 as well). The modern 65186 chips are fully static designs that are rated for 14 mhz (but many can easily run at 20 mhz or more), and will run happily at 1.8, 3.3 or 5 volts. (though if you use less than 5 volts the maximum clock speeds go down) It's kinda bizarre to think you can buy new replacements for processors that old...

[@Riflik45]

Watched it - understood it - like it. Thank you for this, please keep up with the good work!

[@yosoy1loco]

Alter, kommst du urspünglich aus einem Ort in Norddeutschland, dessen Namen mit F anfängt und K aufhört?

[@milllosh]

A slight correction on electromigration. Current only flows on the surface of the conductor, not inside. Electrons jump from one atom to the next, from one end of the conductor to the other, leaving "holes" behind, and the direction of the flow of the current is actually the opposite of the direction of flow of electrons, so, basically, the direction of the flow of "holes". Every conductor has a certain resistance, which is actually the resistance to the electrons jumping from one atom to another, and one can think of it as the amount of hold an atom has over an electron. Also, current always flows in the direction of least resistance, which is now even more obvious. We can observe electromigration as migration of electrons that deviates from a wanted path due to changes that happen in either lower or higher resistance in certain areas of a conductor. If there's more than wanted resistance, electrons will take a different path, if there's less resistance, more electrons will flow on the same path over the same time. Voltage, temperature, impurities in the conductor and many other factors (including electromagnetism) can determine whether the electrons will behave as we want them to or not. So, too much resistance in a wanted path or lower resistance in a not wanted path will be the symptom of electromigration. The rest of the explanation that involves current, temperature and other factors is correct. O, and one more thing, electrons have insanely low mass, so it's not a bump as described, but they lose energy on overcoming the resistance, and are no longer able to follow a path that has more resistance than electron has energy, so they take a path of lower resistance. [edit] one more note, greater the resistance - more heat, which causes even greater resistance.

[@Gillsystems]

Buildzoid doesn't care about DX10 or lower. We found his true love.. tesselation!

[@frosty9392]

his 1's really look like 7's sometimes

[@everope]

No

[@rostyloco1]

I recently had my computer report 8GB instead of 16.... I thought I had killed one of my RAM sticks. Turns out I had thermal paste in one of the sockets.

[@bobhumplick4213]

33:27 tried to tell a guy once that higher clocks take a bit more power, he insisted that only voltage matters. but like any electrical system power draw is a result of work being done, in the form of heat generation...and transistor switching. forgot the context of the argument but i think the guy was saying that an extra 500mghz on the core, as long as voltage stayed the same, power draw would remain the same

[@The_Man_In_Red]

🤦‍♂️

[@Bramble20322]

The dumbass thinks CPUs are literally resistors, lmao.

[@jacoblaster7406]

"You can't have negative current." The physicists grant you a pass, since you didn't specify current density. ... Is the Hall effect just a -laminar- turbulent flow of electrons? (Edit: _breathes in electrical engineer_ )

[@jackadams99]

Ive been hearing stories of +1.3v overclocks significantly degrading zen 2 ryzen chips. Not sure whether to believe the internet on that one. I swear most people that post on overclocking forums dont know what they are talking about.

[@randymiracle4958]

The last part of your comment is spot on.

[@Tanka_the_Maid]

I heard the same stories about the +1.3v overclocks, I am still curious if this could be true as I have my Ryzen 7 3700X Running on a 1.325V Overclock The max temps are around 67*C under full load, but still I am curious

[@jeffm2787]

Well I managed to regrade an 1800x at around 1.40 after months of running it OC'ed. I won't take an OC anymore, only will run stock. To be fair I was running it on a smaller AIO (H80i GT) which wasn't really up to the task. Killed the AIO as well, as it started getting galvanic corrosion issues due to the heat destroying the glycol.

[@BitterCynical]

I've had my 3600 for a few months, have settled at 4.1GHz and 1.38 vcore for a while now without any obvious instability and I don't care much about stability for 24/7 stress testing with something like prime95. I am skeptical of all the info about how above 1.3 volts is so dangerous because the stupid thing is supposedly rated for 4.2GHz boost and achieving that on all cores at all times without crashing is impossible with just 1.3 vcore, at least on my chip. Also the marketing about 4.2GHz boost is misleading because leaving everything on auto with overkill custom loop watercooling for tons of thermal headroom the CPU has only a single core intermittently boosted up that high when settings are left on auto. If anything the incredibly shit stock wraith stealth cooler is the real problem. I basically had typical above 90C laptop type temperatures even on auto settings when running cinebench R20. Now under water it's more like 70C and in typical use like gaming the temps are around 50 to 55C with the manual overclock and supposedly high core voltage.

[@helioNz4R]

@@jeffm2787 1.4v wasn't ever regarded as safe for 1st gen Ryzen though

[@MikaelKKarlsson]

#Buildzoid - Punching chips in the face since 2015. (24:23)

[@tarfeef_4268]

47:30 "you know what, just take the CPU out of the motherboard and just keep it in the fridge. Only way to keep your cpu from degrading"

[@florin604]

I had a laptop who's Nvidia video card died like this. After resoldering it worked 3 more weeks

[@wasweissichbla]

this confirms my lowtemp fetish :)

[@The_Man_In_Red]

Why hello there Are we also idling at 28-31C and 50C under load? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[@mazajee]

@@The_Man_In_Red get a room you two

[@MartianGopnik]

Hmm. Thanks for the info! I am actually having what sounds like it might be a thermal cycling problem, currently. The (438mm^2) GPU is fine when web browsing or playing less graphically-intense games, but as soon as I play a game with "shiny" graphics, I get a BSOD (or sometimes just sudden black screen.) I thought it might be something in the interaction between GPU and power supply, since OCCT's GPU "memtest" runs for at least 4 or 5 minutes (which is where I stopped it manually,) with the core reaching 60-70ºC on DIY hybrid cooling w/120mm rad. The "3D" test that loads the core (and draws more power) crashes almost immediately. If replacing my power supply proves ineffective, I may just resort to partially disassembling my GPU and sticking it in an oven at 170ºC.

[@bodasactra]

Very good vid, it gave me the confidence to try to beat the next gen big brother of my current CPU. I did 4.2 all core OC at 1.4V on a Ryzen 5 2600X with idle temp of 27.50c/load over time temp 71.50c using the Wraith Max box cooler for FX 8390 CPUs. This allowed me to beat the CPUZ single core score of the stock Ryzen 3600 and match it in multicore score, validated and stored on CPUZ site. It gave me great joy to beat $190 CPU with one I got new for $89 on sale. Note: it is Dec. 2019 mature manufactured.

[@TontonGahu]

Thanks for the information, love the scientific vulgarization of the different processes and phenomena.

[@MrBaracas]

Well, my 3600 is most clearly degraded already big time. Only 1.35v did it on a d15. Never really got very hot either. So yeah. Guess I'll be RMAing every 6 months. So much for the "value" crap of that platform. Funny as hell that the old 2500k is still rocking since 2012 at 4.8gh nearly 24/7.

[@TimothySimpson]

I appreciate the video. However, I still don't know how to figure out what/how to adjust things on my GPU. I recently started playing Borderlands 3. That game pushes my GPU harder than any other games I've played. I have a GTX 1080ti that is NOT overclocked. But, the game pushes it to 82-83 degrees C. I have been trying to figure out what is a safe voltage to bring it down to, while also increasing the fan speeds earlier to reduce the heat. Can't afford water cooling. And am disabled, so I can't take it apart to repaste it. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks again for the video. Razar.

[@eugenepioquinto5222]

I just want to re iterate: Thanks for your efforts. 👍

[@timduncan9372]

Ugh...This might not be related to this video but I just bought a new PC with an X570 mobo that has a bad chipset placement (blocked by GPU). I actually looked at your videos for mobo recommendations but somehow 'forgot' about chipset placement factor. My supposedly brand new 3900X PC is having more problems than my much older PC. Don't do my mistake people.

[@vladvah77]

What are your problems with 3900X sir?

[@BrianCroweAcolyte]

This makes me very suspect of the longevity of these 14nm intel chips that people love smashing 300-500+ watts into lol. On the subject of overclocking and whamming voltage and amps into chips, I'm actually very happy with what AMD is doing with XFR and Precision Boost. I only ever overclock for performance so if the chips are safely maxed or even just nearly maxed from the factory I'm happy. Less time staring at bios and blue screens and more time gaming.

[@Yelkwood9]

the intel cpu's aren't that big actually, even the 10900k is only around 200mm2, and runs significantly cooler than Ryzen in spite of the higher power draw due to the much lower thermal density of 14nm. These chips are going to be running for a long time unless people are pushing them to the limit 24/7 and are not respecting Intel's vdroop specification

[@Rafael-rn6hn]

Electromigration sounds a lot like what might be happening to Intel CPUs. I'm guessing most motherboards are running unlimited current and unlimited power, plus thermal velocity boosting to high voltages. Even server boards might be hammering the prefered/boosting cores with high load and getting them up there in volt/current/temperature.

[@hpcarlos2255]

I never get a Clear answer butt i Run my R7-3700x @ 1.375v at 4.5ghz with Temps Never SurPassing 73c after 3 hours of intensive Processor demanding titles like CyberPunk or Origins / Odyssey , etc ... games 🎮 all I want to know is if my Cpu will Run at 95% after Five years of OverClocking ? 🧐

[@Kappi1997]

33:31 in most cases the current rises more than linear because with higher frequency the time were there is a shoot through or bough of the mosfets still changing will get longer because the MOSFET has to work faster.

[@ThisIsAGoodUserNameToo]

Steve hasn't shown you how to make a script yet?

[@tejk5184]

Very interesting vid. I flashed my GTX770 yesterday to -100MHz core and made a custom fan curve because it is my child and I dont' want to loose it.

[@uncrunch398]

How long would it take to kill a chip by keeping it stored, unpowered, not connected to anything, in its ideal conditions in the original retail tray?

[@666Necropsy]

lets see how this plays out with 7700x, 7800x, 7900x, 7950x, and the 3d versions.

[@renchesandsords]

This was a VERRRYYY good video and has greatly educated me on-chip degradation and safer OC habits

[@bigcazza5260]

1080ti is significantly smaller than the other tis, thats why it doesnt thermal cycle itself to death as much. 471mm sq vs 600+

[@EuroRogue]

Dude, this is amazing info for us mere mortals! Great video!

[@ObsiFIN]

Fun fact: The material for PCB (sub) is always mostly glass and epoxy resin & copper for the tracing and via hole plating (of course some other substances, but mainly speaking). More higher end tier board, more fillers. Fillers in the material usually for heatspeading and to try to make the PCB more robust.

[@snowhawk4049]

So my Ryzen runs on 0.68-1.0V and the temperature is in a range from 24-44°C. If I keep it that way it should basically run forever.

[@myownsite]

Sounds like good silicon, overclock the snot out of it.

[@snowhawk4049]

@@lawliot It is a Ryzen 1600AF, I can easily overclock it to 4.3Ghz but don't really need the performance right now, so I decided to run it at stock frequency with aggressive undervolt. Benchmark results are the same as with regular voltage but the power consumption is around 49W instead of 80W under load.

[@MrThomashorst]

Yeah ... but running a cpu forever is rather boring ... as luuzeri suggested, go and oc the snot out of it

[@PainterVierax]

@@snowhawk4049 not "forever", but maybe a lifetime if you still can find replacements for the other parts around. Also after 50 years, softwares, OSes, communication protocols and ports will likely be all incompatible.

[@CaveyMoth]

My 2700X runs at 66 degrees Celsius. It's doomed. =\

[@user78405]

i set 1.37v for 4.32 ghz and thats how tight for the chip on ryzen 2nd gen chips....not sure about why people set it pass that ...i have no clue why...probably board is different on anyone...i not planning keep this long since cpu death is closer i fear ...so waiting for switch back to intel for long term usage ..

[@moomoo5537]

You are talking nonsense lol.

[@jameshanna8762]

Bender: "Like putting too much air in a balloon!" Fry: "Of course! It's all so simple!" Great video! I'm a simple man, so I appreciate when smart guys break it down Barney-style.

[@alexskywalker888]

So he's Lela in this situation?

[@MrThomashorst]

The over trick works since the 8000x series ... nVidia screwed the underfill and layer1 connections fail very early at normal use

[@darthgrossmaul]

*over trick = oven trick full ack on your argument!

[@dimwillow7113]

I will only idle with my cpu for now on to minimize electromigration.

[@salehamini2036]

I wonder how vega 56 and 64 managed to survive this long when they run HOT and their cores are huge.

[@williamforbes6919]

Interposer maybe? I don't know if that has a knock on effect for this.

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

they aren't that old

[@TheGyuuula]

I plan to get a used Vega 56 and powerlimit the shit out of it. You can halve the power consumption for like 20% performance loss. It uses less power and still significantly faster than an RX 580.

[@sulphurous2656]

*Worrying Laughter*

[@Noooo23523]

@@TheGyuuula my rx 480 uses 130w maximum

[@Kizzster]

Would the Zen 4 7000 series degrade if it's constantly running 95c long term?

[@HdtvTh]

So, basically, rip your gpu cooler off and smack a big noctua cpu cooler on it. Water cooling is meh and unreliable.

[@CaveyMoth]

Do it DIYPerks style!

[@XFourty7]

Whoa, new GIMP looks like Blender & Photoshop had a baby.

[@MrThomashorst]

The electrons wont smash the atoms out of their way. Instead they push the electrons from one atom to another and causing the atoms migrating from one type (e.g. copper) to another "useless" type which is not longer part of the copper-structure and drifts out of the material.

[@Benri05]

I will not use my pc anymore to prevent degradation

[@chincemagnet]

This is good stuff, I swear I must have degraded my 9900K. Used to run stable at 5.4, just stopped one day out of the blue and never would again since. Not that I’ve tried it recently. I’ve considered delidding, but the risk is too high for a chip that’s still good for 5.3 all core daily It’s been liquid cooled on a high end custom loop, so not quite sure exactly what happened.

[@chincemagnet]

@Zfast4you yes, that is correct, well, set at 1.4v, temps when under heavy load in the 80s, but it's a gaming rig, temps rarely exceed the 60s. I'm not upset about it though, it lasted for about almost a year at 5.4. I'll hang onto it for another year, maybe 2, then upgrade. If i start having trouble at 5.3, then it's time to go.

[@chincemagnet]

Well, to be perfectly honest, I’ve been over clocking for 15 years and I’ve never experienced this before. I’ve had a few graphics cards die on me, but never had any other components give me trouble. I have a pretty extreme liquid cooling setup, so it’s about as good as it gets without going chilled liquid. Well, I guess I did have a 980x I used to run at 4.0 when it was stable at 4.4, but I’ve been throwing caution to the wind since then. I killed a Kepler Titan, my fault, pushing it too hard for too long. But never a CPU. I did crack the TIM on a 4790K once, but delidding fixed that. Besides, why sit on it at lower clock speeds if it can do more? I don’t keep anything beyond 2 years, 3 max. Regarding performance, I’m obsessed with minimum frame rates, the super high clock speeds are typically what bring those up. And I also have a high end set of RAM OC’d and timings all tuned for max performance. 380w BIOS on both my 2080 Ti’s. So everything is balls to the wall.

[@zmonchamp]

The Fury X also has a benefit of the built in water cooling. The Fury or Fury Nano cards will be the ones that'll show the thermal aging affects way sooner than the X. The Fury X also throttles at 65'C because of water pump. heh

[@caiof0584]

I don't know if I missed it but there is the fact that the smaller the lithography, the lower the voltage and over voltage tolerance. I remember I saw an interview on gamernexus where the interviewee said that the biggest cause of the degradation was by far the voltage due to how you said, the place that heats up is well below the chip and because of that, independent of the cooling system (without subzero) the heat generated there by the overvolt increases exponentially compared to the rest of the chip and that over time slowly ends up burning part of it and depending on the voltage used the heat reaches such a point that it simply does not have time to transfer from there to the rest of it which causes it to burn almost instantly. As mentioned, it is a problem that also tends to worsen a lot with the reduction of lithography since the chip becomes a lot more sensitive to changes in voltage and temperature as it gets smaller and the components tighter and closer.

[@bradleymorgan8223]

I just had a CPU die on me after probably 4 or 5 years at 1.38v, thank you for explaining what actually happened!

[@Herbertti3]

I have degraded 2 cpu's so far 4670K @4.5Ghz. Didn't run anything above 4.2Ghz in the end. Second one 1800X @4.1Ghz and had to drop to 4.05Ghz after 2 years.

[@WouterVerbruggen]

The oven 'trick' also works because of surface melting, which is a quasi-state where on the surface a layer of atoms melts. This will/can mend cracks forming in the solder balls and its connections, therefore restoring a good connection

[@marktackman2886]

As a network engineer, voltages and oxidation are part of our everyday lives, atrophy.

[@paulvancyber1979]

My HD7970 die after 6 years, but i live in a very hot place and not always I use AC

[@Ds3DeniS3Ds]

27:01 TL:DR Search images for MOSFET Drain current vs Voltage You can see there is a "saturation" of the drain current. At that point is it technically close to linear at that point, but it had a different behaviour from 0 to a certain voltage. Very rough explaination: I am by no mean an expert but if it is helpful I studied physics and I'll share some info: In a MOSFET transistor there are usually 2 voltages at play: the one between the Gate and the Base, and the one between the Drain and Source. The former acts as a "switch" in digital electronics, it serves the purpose of "turning on" the flow of current between Drain and Source. Let's say we keep the Gate and Base at a certain operating voltage and slowly make the Drain-Source voltage go up, Drain current at first goes up very quickly, then it saturates and goes up way slowly. You can find a lot of graphs by searching MOSFET Drain current vs Voltage or here www.researchgate.net/figure/Drain-current-versus-drain-source-voltage-in-trigate-MOSFETs-with-various-values-of-gate_fig5_260522076 That's why twice the voltage (past a certain point) does not equate to twice the current. The reason behind it has to do with how this "gate" operates: it's pretty long to explain here 'cause one needs to know how fundamentally a MOSFET transistor works, but very roughly speaking: the gate "creates" a path for the current to flow between Drain and Source, when the Voltage between Gate and Base is over a certain threshold voltage, lets call it V_{Threshold}. Also typically Base and Source are shorted to the same voltage so we can speak of Gate-Base voltage as Gate-Source voltage: V_{Gate-Source} . When V_{Drain-Source} > V_{Gate-Source} - V_{Threshold}, in in the proximity of the Drain gate voltage is lowered by the drain voltage and drops under the threshold voltage needed to keep this path open, so the conductive section aka "the path", pinches, thus hindering the flow of the current. On one hand you have higher voltage difference that tends to make the current flow higher, but on the other the zone around the drain which is hard for electrons to flow in gets larger, this effects counteract one another, still there is a linear increase in current vs voltage at that point, but one that does not intersect the {0V ;0I} point.

[@kekley8116]

Put my 3600 in the fridge right after finishing this video, hopefully it'll last long enough to give me my money's worth now. Thanks Buildzoid!

[@nikkytae]

this is pretty interesting, it helps us understand why our chips do degrade over time which is my main concern as a non-overclocking consumer.

[@user78405]

THIS IS WHY INTEL USE METAL GATES ON ALL i3,i5,i7,i9 core tech ....since core tech intel used, are not high voltage to begin with but they have gates are very easy to overclock with plenty headroom due to low volts already gonna in...those K gates can withstand better than SOI pentium 4 or any AMD chips current now....due to stackable compatible to be stack each other to form 3d gates to form later i7 and i5 can handle 5ghz and 1.38v from 1.05v

[@matt4193]

Interesting and enlightening. Thank you for your support.

[@Vegemeister1]

I suspect that the oxide breakdown dependence on temperature has to do with the electron energy distribution being narrower at low temperature, so you have fewer high-energy electrons that can damage the oxide. It's the Fermi-Dirac distribution.

[@RetroAnachronist]

My 3950X was hitting 1.5v or more at times. I set a -.1v offset in my bios. Lost like 10°C and my Cinebench scores went up. I’m half tempted to keep going down to find the happy spot, as this was just a zOMG STOP fix.

[@johnoakes7922]

Thank you for sharing. I really appreciate what your sharing. Some of us don't know, wouldn't know, or even consider the things you are explaining. You help make people smarter about things. TY!

[@andrewb9595]

I know this is an old video but it shed some light on why I've hit the limit on my low power 5700X setup, running at 3.3GHz @ 846mV all-core and 4.85GHz single-core @ 1.204V with a 49W power limit... I couldn't find a 5700GE. [-30CO all-cores, +200MHz Boost Override, -72mV offset, 925mV SOC, 49 PPT, 0 TDC, 73 EDC] I think AMD's power management is preventing me from pushing more current into the chip because it's afraid of EM. Or it could also be due to localized hotspots even though my R23 temps seem fine at only 60C max; which would explain why clock speeds decrease slightly between 58C & 60C. So at this point I think I'm pretty much stuck, unless I can cool it more (unlikely in a 4L case) or if I somehow find a BIOS that allows for something like -60 Curve Optimizer on an AM4... Which is as likely to happen as winning the lottery.

[@borealeone]

Did you actually have experience with thremally degraded Hawaii? I haven't seen a person with this problem on the forums (as compared to G80 and all other bumpgate affected NV cards), most of the time people kill their cards with AUX overvoltage or due to bad VRMs on some non-reference boards... Mine 290 is still alive and it had reference blower for half of the time...

[@kpakpatojournal1555]

So basically, keep temps low, and voltage moderate.. Thanks for all the details and explenations in between

[@ALLINGaming0]

I love videos like this one.

[@Ohlukei]

I am a computing freak since 1986 and the degradation of micro processors is totally new to me. Even old computer from the 1980's are still working fine. There may other parts fail at some point but the micro processor is the least to fail. 👀

[@YTHandlesWereAMistake]

27:43 Patrons, you know what to do. Let’s make history.

[@game.different]

First 20 minutes is also applicable to laptop CPUs. Louis Rossman has raged at Apple for years because the poor Macbook cooling causes mobile Intel CPUs to run at max OEM Tjunction all the time. The resulting thermal cycling causes similar problems to the GPU issues Buildzoid is discussing here...

[@XiaOmegaX]

With the news of 7950X3D's dying very quickly, someone should do a study on how far mobo makers are overvolting CPU's in bios "optimized defaults" state, because that's the leading culprit.

[@MrCriistiano]

Just a quick tip: shoot your videos in segments. That way, if you want to reshoot something, you only need to reshoot one segment. I don't think anyone cares about camera cuts and whatever.

[@rospincasocl3741]

AHOC: "I don't really care about anything older than DX11." Radeon 9000 series: "we wuz kingz"

[@Ghennesph]

on the topic of water, one of the big advantages of it is actually the thermal volume of water it's self; under a long-term heavy load, water and air cooling performance isn't that different, but where water really has an advantage is in sudden temperature spikes, which would mean a larger thermal difference between the chip and the substrate, are much better managed due to the higher thermal volume of the cooler.

[@Christopher_42]

hey man i applied 1,5 volts on my old xeon x5675 when intel says not to exceed 1.45 volts.... i just did it for testing its not a 24/7 stable use. My stable is 1,4 volts for 4.5ghz..., is that ok? did i degrade my cpu??? temps didnt excceed 76 celsius on 1.5 volts on stress test..

[@thiagodelgado3128]

But there's ins't clear to me, low voltage+low temps+stock current+ 4.6GHz all core all time, this degrades more than stock clocks? or clock frequency don't interfere in degradation?

[@tyraelpl]

Exaplained well, i mean understandably for most people. It is a bit of a crude explanation but it seems fine. 1 thing tho, what about e- tunneling with your gap of 1 atom? Imho those atomic gaps you mention have to be a bit larger than just 1 Cu/Co atom. Also phonon dispersion happens pretty much always, all the time, which is why e- cant speed with light speed thru (semi)conductors. And this popping outta place (their crystalline lattice position) is more of a diffusion which you kinda fail to mention too so... Anyway i lack some proper wording but overall? Nice, thx.

[@АнатолийА-й7ж]

My 2080ti xoc bios 29%(2000w). H2o. 51°c max in test and games. Metro exodus 4k/ultra/rtx ultra/dlss

[@tirasoft8582]

Is it ok for a i9-10900k to keep it at 1.48-1.5V with the core temperatures 20deg (Cryo cooling) ?

[@riffsthatkill2180]

I wonder how many amateur enthusiast viewers' CPUs you've fried because your 1s look like 7s.

[@timtoomuch]

Bro you gotta put out murch.i would definitely buy a shirt that says "The Thing Is"!!!!

[@saywhat9158]

So, when you buy an overclocked GPU, the manufacturer is basically [though not saying] selling you a product that they are sacrificing its lifespan in use in order to get a higher selling price because even if the silicon of the chip is good enough to allow higher overclocking, the rest of the components do not necessarily support the additional stress that will occur over time. Yes?

[@magottyk]

With electromigration there is a trigger threshold and migration is not linear, temperature also feeds back into the rate of EM. www.ifte.de/books/em/em_chap2.pdf As cross section divided by current squared is a part of the MTF equation, more current is exponentially more migration.

[@JamesFox1]

current would fail first my 1700x runs constant 1.8 vlt

[@VillaMasterSF]

lol cool it down and dont run anything on it ? okay so you basicly saying i should turn off power XD ?!?!?!?!? brain advice :) !

[@wickedbinary7108]

I wish there was an Alexa type device that was a wee mobile Buildzoid that all his awesome technical knowledge could be referenced, intact with dry wit. I'd pay double for the dry wit.

[@meysamafzali5138]

One thing that you said is wrong When the power consumption is equal If u increase the voltage you draw less current v*a=w

[@rogerwilco2]

We have run chips at -190 C for decades, in specialized low noise amplifiers.

[@insu_na]

I'd guess oxide breakdown reduces resistance and electromigration increases the resistance. If you can control for current and voltage, you can calculate the resistance and check which issue you're dealing with. Pretty sure you can't control these to an accurate enough degree to get any useful data tho :(

[@jaykay9975]

My 7970 thermal cycled to death. I bought it the day it came out and it died about a year ago. I baked it twice and got to use it for about a month after. But baking it every month isn't fun so I finally got rid of it.

[@enioapolinario8538]

Great lesson for free, thank you so much Prof. BuildZoid!

[@JaydedWun]

Does this mean 5850x3d chips are likely to die a lot faster than other chips?

[@gen0megen0me93]

About electromigration if cause for electromigration is electrons bumping into atoms, than twice voltage mean twice amperage so four times the "kinetic" energy of moving electrons