Adam Ondra & Will Bosi DEBATE Grade of 'Terranova'

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

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[@cmcgl]

No matter what Will says Adam is just like "skill issue" 😂

[@assaqwwq]

I don't know how to say this nicely, but outside of burden, which is pretty straightforward climb, kinda moon board style... There seems to be an incentive for people to go out there and send impossibly difficult climbs... Like the mellow crew... And while I love their content and their climbs, it's so fast decided that something is V17, even when they only worked on it for 1 or 2 months... It "feels" like there are forces at play that influence the grade. Maybe sponsorships, maybe they need to compete with all the 9c lead climbers.. idk That's why I appreciate Shawn so much, he only climbs what and when he feels like it and doesn't care about the grade And then people get confused (and upset) that some of us want the "old style" of climbing to be seen in competitions... When the "best boulderer" in the world can't maintain tension while turning his torso... Something is missing, not skill, not strength, imagination maybe.. that usually is the first thing that dies when millions are on the line

[@1uc123]

@@assaqwwq Mate, if you think these climbers make millions you're sorely mistaken, as to the rest. Yeah, comp is a bit of it's own style for sure

[@assaqwwq]

@@1uc123 why would you think I think that? I said in the sport there are millions, not that individuals have them...the sponsors definitely have them... You don't need to answer just to argue with me... if you have a question, ask... don't assume. And again, Shawn is sponsored too and he never seems to suffer from the pressures of his peers. All I'm saying is I wanna see the best and the strongest climbers do crazy impossible shit and not only left-right climbs, or daintily walking up small foot holds (which I totally agree must hurt sooooooo much) or a triple paddle momentum all gas no breaks. I want good climbers to climb good! and hard! and to put their foot above their nose and hook their own nose with their heel and pull so hard their face falls off. Is that too much to ask? I kid. I kid. It's a joke. But really, it's not all just finger strength or how far you can jump. Sometimes technique needs to be tested too. And for that, you need imagination, both in the route setters and in the climbers themselves. These people are INCOMPREHENSIVELY strong. Yet there's only one that has toe hooked their own toe jam while dangling upside down. God forbid they put crack in every climb at the Olympics. Nobody makes the podium then....

[@Matt-yu5ed]

Has anyone thought maybe it’s just not wills style? The climb that should be questioned is honey badger

[@dynamo5326]

@@assaqwwqwtf are u on abt. Climbing has always been this way 😂. One new grade and now everybody doing it

[@justingabriele3881]

We should acknowledge how insane it is that Jana has sent Nova and is working TerraNova

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

Absolutely

[@biltongandboba]

Fo sho, she's certainly been putting in the work though

[@solsticeclimbing]

@@stefangotti2208 you're weird for saying this but anyways

[@larrysmith9600]

@@stefangotti2208 Yes because complimenting someone = trying to sleep with them...

[@tristanmurphy7337]

@@stefangotti2208you’re an idiot

[@johannielsen463]

Oh..."Czech"...not "Chick"...makes more sense...slow morning brain with a "what did he just say"

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

😂

[@johnmcmillen4540]

same here 🙂

[@chuckz28]

Plot twist: Ondra downgrades all V17s to V15 or V16

[@gordonneverdies]

Two humble guys

[@AndrewShusterman]

Definitely seems like a climbing style seldom found anywhere else in the world, and that perhaps Ondra just grew up more accustomed with it while most other people didn't, explaining the differing opinions. Still interesting that Bosi did 5 V15's on similar rock in one trip, and yet finds this magnitudes harder than those... I think we need a 3rd or 4th opinion on this.

[@Alex-hq5ir]

Ondra had said Terranova was a problem he developed as a child and tried daily. I feel like he's underrating how familiar he was with it even if he only had 12 true working sessions on it.

[@hankmoody6636]

Wait for Jana Svecova to send it. Seems like she's edging closer and closer.

[@TheGumbyGuy]

This is why it's so difficult to have an objective grade on anything lol. I'll try not to worry so much on what the objective grade of any climb is because I'll never be climbing at the level where it matters anyway 😂.

[@robberthonetcf]

@@hankmoody6636The hardest Jana has climbed is 8c. Even if the boulder is 9a, I don’t think the community would allow her to upgrade the boulder.

[@johnnycigar3240]

@@robberthonetcf She just needs the guts to voice her opinion once she's sent for it to be a valid vote. The community can think what the fuck they want, our opinion doesn't matter until we've sent the thing. Charles Albert claims hard grades on some of his stuff. Confirming the grade warrants repeats but until then he's entitled to thinking it warrants a given grade.

[@ClimbingCaed]

Great edit between the two conversations! Thanks for asking all the right questions too🤘🏽

[@cheshoshotte]

I think TerraNova suits Adam style's so much that he doesn't really realise how hard it is. It's like people who are really good at coordination moves will found specific climbs so much easier than people not accomodated with the style the same way Adam find TerraNova "not that hard" (still V16 tho).

[@TristanCleveland]

Yeah, his style being "weird as f"

[@sneakysnake123]

So I understand Adams arguments, but then it goes back to the decision, what makes a V17 a V17? Why isn't weird unique technique as hard as the board style climbs? I don't understand that. Therefore I also think that many 8c+ and 9a are just so specific, that for some people they are just easier and for others harder, which makes it less meaningful to to grade some higher and some lower and just makes it hard to compare with the same grading system.... It is the same thing, that slabs are often sandbagged...7a slabs are imo way harder than 7a "normal" boulders for many people, just bc it is so different.... Could this become more relevant in higher grades even with other types of climbs? Also I feel like at this high difficulty, different beta and different hight and flexibility of people, just might make the difference of 8c+ and 9a in some specific cases, which again undlerines, that it makes less sens to grade it. I dont think will could make this insane split drop knee which Adam does, so he needs differen beta, which might then be harder than for Adam? Does this make sense? If in a really specific climb, there is not an equally easy work around beta for shorter climbers, just an extremely hard one, then it has to be a different grade for these people, no? and then the grades loose their sense

[@robberthonetcf]

My problem with Adam’s thinking is that he considers grades as something objective while they’re very subjective. What feels like an 8a for a tall person, might feel like an 8c for a shorter one. Every body is different and it’ll make certain moves much harder or easier, no matter how much you train. Until we have a robot that could climb the boulders with different body configurations and give an average grade, we should consider grades as just a difficulty reference.

[@joandomenech6708]

​@@robberthonetcf Bro that's exactly what grades are, a difficulty reference. The thing is people are so obsessed with grades that they forget that grades are there just to have a reference. I truly believe that as long as you find a good challenge even if you are an 8b climber trying an 7b that doesn't suit you it is perfectly fine. The problem is pretending that because you sent a grade once you are supposed to be able to climb every grade lower with no difficulty

[@sneakysnake123]

@@robberthonetcf exactly

[@piadois]

Thats why grade confirmation and consolidation only comes after a few climbers have sent the problem. When a problem has only been sent by one or two climbers, I take it as suggested grade.

[@flip_lange]

can't wait for the full versions! Sooooo good

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

Will's next week, Adam's will be a little after that. Such good convos! Thanks for the support.

[@flip_lange]

@ yaaaasss 😍 thanks for putting out great content AND congrats on sending the proj 🥳

[@patrykcwiertnia7768]

as i remember from adam movie - terranova was his home project for couple years!! and he had like unlimited time on it. so it is very different. Also at the time 8C+ was reserved for nearly impossible boulders and no one even thougt that 9A is even remotly possible. this is the thing for me in 2024 grade 8C+ is still very unexpolered and people started to giving 9A grade even without having that big expertize in grade 8C/8C+

[@jjizzler9592]

will bosi having a gaming headset is funny

[@pachko7164]

i'm sure he is global elite on CSGO, he is a tryharder

[@imaginebeinggood3471]

​@@pachko7164 Are you taking the piss, because that is some elite trivia if not

[@oderiest]

@@imaginebeinggood3471 Nah he's serious, I was trying to find it again online but couldn't find a source but Will's definitely mentioned it before. It was either global elite or Faceit level 10, probably the former.

[@user-ih3jl9um6e]

​@imaginebeinggood3471 it's actually true

[@bbfletch268]

Adam climbed TerraNova since a kid, he is very familiar with it. There has to be more people trying this but it might be harder than Ondra claims.

[@novadea1643]

Adam nonchalantly sandbagging everyone 🤣

[@n3v3r1s4]

That style of downright contortionist climbing Adam really is perfectly suited for.. unlike most of everybody else. Ya'll have seen his warmups and whatnot, right =P On the other hand, Will just likes to pull hard! =D I mean, yeah, sure, I won't pretend to know much about climbing anywhere near that level, but armchair commentating is what KZbin comments are for! =)

[@mikedruce1701]

Imagine Adam going on a 9A boulder TEAR & downgrades them all to 8c+ lol

[@microspartan]

We are blessed to have adam ondra. i love his genuine smile. inspiration for me

[@ulysses2592]

Awesome. Been waiting to hear more about this.

[@deschain1910]

I feel like, when Will started talking about the beginning vs. the end, this might be partially a conversation about how you go about incorporating endurance into the difficulty rating, and when the length of a boulder alone bumps it up a grade.

[@Particularpete]

Thank you Adam for still sandbagging everyone

[@Outlabyrinth]

Adam should go repeat again 😊just to see if he change is mind 😛😊

[@ac311205]

The fact that terranova seems like it’s more difficult than alphane, ROTSW, and spots of time throws a wrench into things. I always feel like Will always wants to say that most V17s shouldn’t be V17 other than BOD but he is too nice and respectful of the FAs so he doesn’t say it.

[@cadencampbell5684]

I totally agree

[@HighGravityDay]

So you don't respect that Will doesn't say that and instead fantasize about what you think he thinks. Do you see how that is kinda rude and disrespectful?

[@matiask7633]

I think there's not much value in attempts or days of projecting on grade. Climbing is highly skin and condition dependent, and for example alphane, multiple people have said it was easy to work on because of it being so skin friendly. Will has had constand condition issues with terranova, and it's not a boulder he can travel to consistently like Spots of Time. I also think he's pretty honest about his grading, he downgraded sleepwalker. With his lineup of 9a and 8c+ boulders, I see no reason to downgrade the others. It's just that Adam is a bit blind to his own strengths and experience with the style.

[@Kingofdafarm21]

Why is everyone always skipping 9c+ with the sport climbing grade conversation?

[@ssize_t]

it doesn't exist. The scale goes from 9c to 10a

[@Kingofdafarm21]

@ssize_t I'm talking French sport, yes it does exist.

[@blacknine901]

I think it's just the charm of a new number ahah

[@ssize_t]

@@Kingofdafarm21 no no it doesn't, i checked. Last time I climbed more than 9c I basically climbed 10a, so 9c+ doesn't exist

[@danielfry8097]

​@@ssize_t....what

[@_mirjka5746]

I love the fact that both Will and Adam acknowledge each other at such a prestigious thing.

[@Mashmans]

So fun to see the joy on the faces of Adam and Will as they ponder how difficult a climb is. I can see that rock climbing is achieved by stringing different techniques together in order. Would it be fair to make the argument that the true grade of a wall is determined by the order, and which moves are chosen to make the send? Would performing a BETA breaker constitute for an entirety new climb and grade?

[@foobar9220]

In rock climbing, we normally consider every hold along a certain line to be part of the climb (there are some boulders that are defined by elimination of certain holds, but those are rare exceptions). The grade is determined by the easiest beta on those holds. So a beta break can justify a downgrade, but it is still the same climb. We see this all the time when a second or third ascent finds some alternative beta

[@WallFlailer]

Closed captioning says his 4th V7 and I’m choosing to believe I’m right up there in the mix with the hardest climber in the world 😊

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

🤣

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Hi Ryan! Where do we get the shirt?

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

Booooooom! www.etsy.com/shop/TheStruggleClimbing

[@paulmitchell5349]

' Shitty and frictionless ' crags like Raventor. Such an accurate comment by Adam .

[@DreIsGoneFission]

Obviously Adam is a humble beast. But let’s talk about how humble Will is by being the one to actively float the idea that Burden ISNT the first V17, which would, in terms of the history books, kinda discount his own accomplishments as the second person to climb it?

[@themanissam1]

He would still be the second person to climb Burden and he was never the second person to climb 9A

[@liam-ox9ql]

When was this interview?

[@allanzhou6778]

it’s two interviews piece together

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

I talked with both Will and Adam a few weeks ago. Full podcast episodes will be released soon (Will's is next week, Adam's will be a little after that). They're both bangers!

[@liam-ox9ql]

@@thestruggleclimbingshow can't wait🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@ShakespeareanBroncobuster]

Adam will always be the climbing goat. People will climb harder grades, but he was sooooo far ahead of everyone

[@jannisvogel6670]

He share the place of the goat with Güllich

[@brh8660]

People say that the sexism on the climbing scene has gotten better, but folks repeatedly saying "Czech girl" instead of the name Jana Švecová tells me that we've got some way to go. I don't think there's any ill intent at play, but imagine some male climbing projecting a very hard route and folks just saying that strong "American boy" instead of using their name.

[@loltonstoryson6596]

Your right about the sexism, but calling her a Czech girl isn’t so bad. There are very few female Czech climbers climbing at that level, so I think that he just momentarily forgot her name.

[@andrewkim9503]

Honestly I think Aidan would crush Terranova. I also wonder if Adam would have success in climbing it today...

[@conserve_climber]

Force board!!!!!! 👍👍👍👍

[@kajtekmccranck9978]

Maybe it's 8C+/9A? Problem solved. Thank you. Good night.

[@chiz161190]

I wonder if Adam would be able to repeat this boulder now

[@Fefko13]

Thumbnail: World's first V17? 26 seconds into the video: "I don't think so"

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

And then a little after that…Will thinks it could be…hence the debate

[@jeromejean-charles6163]

I would like to see Laura Rogora on this boulder . Might surprise everyone if there are not some reachy moves.

[@steveilg6134]

Sooooo god! TY! AO tho… crazy!

[@huyanakin]

as an experienced boulderer i can see it is 9A+/9B. totally obvious

[@ClimbingKeen]

Sounds like Bosi was just tired by the time he made it to terranova. Really seems like he should’ve gone to terranova sooner

[@alexgreaves4526]

I don't think being too tired is the problem, very possibly it's a factor this time as it was close to him working on Spots of Time. But this was his 4th trip on it. Will first tried Terranova in Apr 2022, then had 2 different trips on it in Sept 2023 then Nov 2023. He climbed Alphane Nov 2022, Burden of Dreams Apr 2023, Return of the SleepWalker Feb 2024, and Spots of Time Oct 2024. He'd already climbed 2 v17s before first really focusing on it, so clearly more than capable at the time. Those 2023 trips are kind of in the sweet spot if you're looking at roughly half a year between each of his other v17s. If the man says it's really hard, I think he's put enough time in for me to believe he hasn't just punted on planning his trip. It's really hard.

[@stephenTcartwright]

calling Ravens Tor a shitty crag was pretty ruthless :(

[@Selfreplyingbot]

Cheaper then a pair of climbing shoes ?! My shoes don’t cost 340$ …..

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

The Force Board portable force gauge is $150 US

[@uncommonsimon5775]

Will will come and he will try it and he will do what will does best and will climb it 😂

[@niksolu]

First? I thought there were already some

[@maciek5917]

Adam put it up a while ago. It’s not a fresh send

[@gjk9119]

At this point I feel like no one really knows the line between v16 and v17, just like strong people in the gym won't feel anything between v2 or v3, hard grades are also different for different people.

[@Arithmophobia]

I hope it isn't the worlds first v17 because its so UGLY

[@ssize_t]

🤡

[@babsds0]

Lime is the purest form of climbing.

[@tristanmurphy7337]

@@ssize_tyou’re on every comment that is slightly critical of Terranova bruh you’re the clown just say you’re and Adam fanboy and let people have their opinion lmao

[@kevinmauge3699]

CLICKBAIT RAHHHHHH

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

Huh? The video fully delivers on the title. Your comment is Clickbait. And I bit. Damnit.

[@steveanspach1312]

No one pays for podcasts. Get better sponsors.

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

My podcasts are zero cost (thanks to awesome sponsors). I release extra content on Patreon for those who are stoked for more and are in a position to support me as a creator. I work my ass off on this show, and it’s not my main job. Aside from Magnus, probably not many people making a living doing this. It’s a passion project but I still need to cover my costs and time as best I can. Otherwise my wife will leave me.

[@MS-fg8qo]

Terranova isn't a boulder but a freaky, ugly traverse.

[@ssize_t]

🤡

[@saketssss]

Would be the biggest disrespect towards Nalle. Adam knows better, just because majority of the internet who climbs V3-V6 argues about a grade they don't have a clue about, doesn't mean it should be graded that way. BoD will always be the first V17 no matter what. Just because a boulder hasn't seen any repeats yet, don't make it V17. Even not that many climbers have tried Terranova compared to BoD, the argument that people are making is just silly asf. This is the main reason Nalle went offline. Please stop it.

[@davidbousi7845]

Is Will someone who climbs V3-V6 and doesn't have a clue about the grades?

[@saketssss]

@@davidbousi7845 It's still not up to him to decide what grade something is.

[@yScribblezHD]

@@saketssssIf he sends it, it's up to him to at least throw his hat in the ring no? Grades are essentially just consensus, but of course these harder climbs have sample size issues.

[@MobyLity-app]

Grades should be based on how rare it is for someone to be good enough to do the climb, not how hard the ascenders found it. By that metric Terranova might be the hardest boulder in the world

[@ssize_t]

🤡

[@shrill_2165]

I think if you think more about that, you’ll disagree with yourself

[@seekelectricity]

the motivation behind grading routes/problems is to give climbers an idea of how difficult something is without having climbed it. if we were to grade in the manner you suggest, we wouldn't get the same kind of metric, would we? it would then be telling us something different, and it would make the physical accessibility of a climb a critical factor in its grade, no?

[@babsds0]

This isn't a good metric since it will lead to climbs located in remote locations, or just uninspiring lines which are hard but shitty movement, to get overinflated grades. I don't think anyone is repeating honey badger anytime soon so does mean it's 9A+/v18?

[@MobyLity-app]

​@@seekelectricity Im not saying you should grade based on how many ascents exist, because yes then boulderes in unpopular places would get harder grades. For my suggestion, you would have to have the best boulderes both give e.g Terranova and Burden of Dreams their best shot and see how many can complete each. Just like an IQ test. It doesnt measure how smart you are, it measures how rare it is for someone to be as smart as you, and i think its a great system. Right now ive heard of a problem where 2 V16 boulderes being in the same area where one has 5 ascents and the other has 30. Because those 5 ascenders thought it was just as hard as climbing the other one. But if the other 25 had no chance of climbing the other one, i dont think they should be the same grade. I think the bigger downside to my suggestion is that it would be really hard to set up.

[@ccaputa]

BAYTUH.

[@RogerFerety3028]

So someone manages after months of effort to scale a short sequence of small holds marginally trickier than some others. That’s what this video is about?Absolutely no one cares. Get a life.

[@tristanmurphy7337]

@@RogerFerety3028 correction, you don’t care. Plenty of other people care, I love climbing and staying up to date on what elite climbers think of some of the hardest boulders in the world to me is a lot of fun. Just because you never developed a theory of mind and think everyone shares your opinion doesn’t make you’re right. People have different interests lol

[@jarfrobinksss]

this is why the old school "V" grade BS needs to stop and we need to move to 2-3 grade ranges due to the multitude of styles, strengths, body types, flexibility, etc. Why are we still holding on to this old shit like it's the constitution? You know some old drunk guy came up with it right? Grades need to be color based or something, and this boulder would be the color that denotes somewhere between v16-v18, based on Will's assessment lol

[@saxon8981]

gey

[@zacharylaschober]

Terranova cannot be the first v17... it has a drop finish. Not saying this cannot be a boulder problem or even an extremely difficult one, merely this seems wrong. Needs a traverse grade, which is something I believe Adam is well versed in.

[@ssize_t]

🤡

[@JM-ro3kr]

Why does it matter if its a drop off? There are any boulders, even hard ones, that are drop off

[@babsds0]

Hubble which is the first 9a is basically a boulder on a rope.

[@peterhammer6915]

Drop off doesn't matter imho. But it is a traverse and way different to f.ex. BOD or SOT.