Did Olivia Rodrigo steal from Paramore? (analysis)

[@AdamNeely]

Corrections/other thoughts. 1. Josh FARRO, not Josh Russo. I am an idiot, sorry Josh. 2. Mashups are a really interesting way of hearing the similarities between songs, and how important the instrumental arrangements are to the feel and "vibe" of a tune. Taylor Swift's We are Never Ever Getting Back Together fits...like, too perfectly, it's scary, but again that makes sense! Pop songs are built from the same template, and claiming ownership of any element of that template leads to some dumb places, like we've seen in recent years with copyright cases.

[@PockyNinja7]

It’s ok

[@BoardGameQC]

Damn! Now I want you to do a mash-up of all 4 songs 😂

[@DavidGossettMusic]

To whoever has the actual stems for both songs... We need the non-AI made version of the Swifty-more mashup.

[@kangabamandes8639]

Great video Adam... There's a new lil nas x song coming out which sounds very inspired by good for u

[@toolongforyoutoread6]

Don't apologize to Josh. He doesn't deserve it.

[@sambkingmusic]

Paramore also didn't file the suit themselves, and they've expressed that they didn't have any problem with Olivia's song sounding like their own

[@justmattisfine9876]

She still 100% ripped it off. Olivia is a good person but unoriginal and totally manufactured. Nothing organic about her.

[@sambkingmusic]

@@justmattisfine9876 dude who cares

[@elliotross]

@@sambkingmusic fr tho

[@TheSalPic]

@@justmattisfine9876 how did you watch this video and still come to that conclusion.

[@aweshumandy]

@@TheSalPic a wild guess but they probably didn't.

[@samljones]

I can't lie, Paramore x Taylor Swift went hard

[@wingracer1614]

It really does. Also funny since Rodrigo already had to give Swift a writing credit for her song Deja Vu which is based on Swift's Cruel Summer.

[@MarioAtheonio]

There’s an amazing mashup of the Taylor Swift song with Tool’s Stinkfist.

[@wingracer1614]

@@MarioAtheonio I like the mashup of NiN's Head Like a Hole with Carly Rae Jepsun's Like You better. I Really Like A Hole.

[@shadwellsong]

so good , i love pop music weeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

[@grillmstr]

goes harder kzbin.info/www/bejne/a2emopWhbqh9sJo

[@dnys_7827]

god adam looks tired of having to do this whole shtick every time a bs music lawsuit comes up, but I'm really grateful for it, it needs to be pointed out. thanks adam

[@AndrewBakke]

Both Adams in the video, even!

[@Miglow]

I was like, is there really new to say on this topic? Not really. But yes. It's good to see this topic as an excuse to see a few songs broken down all at the same time.

[@hisham_hm]

I've been noticing that lately Adam looks tired in general... also revisiting topics in videos (tritone, etc). Hopefully all is well with him. These past two years have been hard for all of us.

[@cabbycabby1770]

“Having to” ?

[@dnys_7827]

@@cabbycabby1770 'having to' as in i assume he feels a need to call this bs out when it happens, since hes one of the internet's most well known music communicators.

[@quixomega]

I think I might be a sucker for this chord progression, because every song mentioned in this video is one of my favorite songs.

[@re_bacelar]

Basically most of the pop songs have this chord progression. It's so so common. I wonder why people don't get tired of it. I love a lot of songs in this progression, but it's a cheese and unoriginal one these days.

[@antoniofarina716]

Also Dragonstea din tei uses this progression

[@vell2994]

Ya same

[@tfwnoyandere]

doesn't misery business go bVI - bIII - VII - i?

[@Donger-wf9kc]

Because it's a boring and generic pop chord progression

[@felixlara2945]

My first thoughts when hearing both songs was " the whole genre kinda sounds like this"

[@NormalizeNotBeingaVictim]

Exactly why this situation is so silly

[@thepuggas2197]

As an avid pop rock/punk listener when I saw the news blowup I thought literally the same thing. I have a 4 hour playlist and you can look at any songs and probably find melodic similarities. So I totally agree

[@ravenswood118]

EXACTLY

[@drawnathan]

FR pop punk music generally sounds objectively the same, it’s just the nature of the genre.

[@ravenswood118]

@@drawnathan I feel like you could say that for all the genres really haha, metal kind of all sounds the same, bubble gum pop all kinda sounds the same....

[@deriansilva368]

When you remake this video in 10 years on why a new artist isn’t stealing Good 4 U’s melody, I’ll be there and here saying hi to everyone in the year 2031

[@LittleWhole]

Ayy, count me in too

[@OsvaldoBayerista]

Cool, i'm commenting to add to that cause

[@martingu36]

lmao

[@mariokirwant3232]

Count with me folks

[@nedim_guitar]

I shall start drinking coffee until then, and I'll join you people with a cup in my hand.

[@m4sk3d1]

My head cannon is “Good for You” is the other girls Perspective from “Misery Business” 😂 the one that lost their S/O

[@CherryLipstick6x3]

Ooooh, this is good

[@AlaiMacErc]

Galaxy-brain head canon! :D (Or from that of the innocent cheerleader bystanders that get flattened at the start of "Misery Business"...)

[@DefenestrateYourself]

canon

[@MorgannaMGone]

Canon

[@PretzelBoi726]

This comment needs more likes

[@fisharepeopletoo9653]

This entire story could be summarized as "People who listen to the same music over and over accuse music of being same"

[@j.w.-]

Thanks, I didnt feel like spending 10 minutes watching the video

[@joshraid1550]

"These two teen girls singing pop punk songs about their relationships sound similar" just wait until you hear about Avril Lavigne. Also good for you is about a fundamentally different experience with different tempo and rhythm and tone and mood but they share like half a melody and a chord progression, which doesn't even mean they have the same beat or melody or hit the same notes or anything like that, just that the notes move up and down in the same way, just like how a weed wacker moves in the same direction as a clock. It doesn't make these things actually similar. I don't hear any similarities outside of that one very small melody moment and the genre they're in. Like what would changing good for you to sound different enough even look like? What would a sufficiently changed version be at this point? Is anything about the verses or instrumental similar enough to actually meaningfully change it into something else?

[@vapor404]

We're telling the same five story's over and over type beat

[@schaddalton]

My old piano teacher/songwriting collaborator told me years ago -- when I was routinely concerned that I'd accidentally ripped off someone else's song -- that "every song has already been written. It's just about how you decide to put the parts together differently to make it your own."

[@instantlydemonetized5988]

all copyrights belong to a caveman who accidentally made five holes in his uncle's thigh bone and blew into it

[@whosryan1443]

A guy i knew was writing a song with me about his brother, the words were original but the tune he was singing was just numb by LP, i scrapped it but apparently we should have kept it!

[@Lizzie011]

Watch daniel thrasher

[@caseys2698]

@@instantlydemonetized5988 this comment just made me laugh out loud for like an entire minute, thank you holy shit 💀

[@teddiespicker]

YES!

[@masayosiimai1698]

Reading comments with vocoder was so hilarious. Every Q+A questions should be read this way.

[@alexaramen18]

That way you can make sure the synth and vocals are in the same key

[@LosvikeN]

@@alexaramen18 best comment right here

[@woosix7735]

Sounds like GLaDOS

[@joanjett69697]

I think it’s extremely annoying…

[@sleeptalkenthusiast]

yesss omg that was so funny

[@Amplifimusic]

"When you read the dictionary, every book is just a remix" Gandhi

[@josephjilson2152]

Can confirm, I was the dictionary

[@cocainaforall4636]

@@josephjilson2152 I was the Gandhi.

[@bluemoon1972]

"Ghandi had all the best quotes" - Abraham Lincoln

[@Cpt_Guirk]

He interpolated that from Steven Wright. "When I first read the dictionary, I thought it was a long poem about everything."

[@jonasrmb01]

but you still can't just copy a book and sell it as your own

[@chrismuratore4451]

Ya know, Adam makes a point around 10 minutes about what would happen if artists couldn't "steal" anymore. I have to wonder, how many great pieces of art were just left in a box somewhere in someone's garage or attic. Too fearful they may be accused of "stealing" someone else's work.

[@sarahko1014]

Nobody will blame you for not knowing if your replicating songs from an artist/band that is not well known/underground. You’ll never know until you try if you want it that bad. But regardless if it’s with extremely popular bands or artists it’s very obvious, and seems less likely to be a genuine mistake because of the amount of people who have heard the song. Especially if you’re cherry-picking/replicating globally known, top- hit songs from Taylor Swift, drake Paramore etc. (TS and Drake are notorious for having their work copied). Accidents however are really not as common as you think.

[@loganhazelton]

@@sarahko1014lol drake copies underground acts all the time, the flow he stole from XXX was pretty blatant. In the end it doesn’t matter though music is and always will be an iterative art-form. Iteration is good

[@michaelaalcordo1614]

We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together and Misery Business getting mashed together is a certified bop.

[@callmeqt1269]

A hood classic, some might say.

[@mikevithek]

@@callmeqt1269 why did this make me laugh so damn hard

[@cosmogrammar]

I would love to hear a full song mashup

[@cultofleda]

We Are Never Ever Getting Mashed Together then?

[@michaelaalcordo1614]

@@CunananBanana thank you for that!

[@joshmion7943]

If you could just... do a full song mash-up of Taylor Swift with Paramore, that would be great. That sounded amazing.

[@whistling_klutz]

Quick, somebody page Neil Cicierega!

[@unlikelygamer]

I found one: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ap-wqGeCibR2jsU

[@zyaicob]

I want the full mashup of Good 4 Ur Broken Dreams

[@random-zz8ut]

Oh my god yes! My two favourite musicians!!

[@TheSmallChap]

I'll uh... see what I can do with them. No promises though

[@therealcomicopera]

Despite all his faults, Shenker was right. Three blind mice is the only song ever written.

[@joshuabroyles7565]

OTOH, Schenker was stumped by Stravinsky. That, alone probably makes Stravinsky worth listening to.

[@simonjgriffiths]

I think that Schoenberg had it covered too

[@Morganstudios]

@@joshuabroyles7565 Yeah Schenkarian analysis falls apart after a certain date in the world of "art music". God I hate the term "art music", but I wasn't sure of the best term to use here lol.

[@joshuabroyles7565]

@@Morganstudios Modern art music turns over all 3 Schenkerian cards. But that doesn't mean the Queen was ever really there before 1900, either.

[@joshuabroyles7565]

@@simonjgriffiths The funny thing about serialism, though, is that if you need to graphically construct almost any kind of diagonal pitch relationship, you can probably do it. In that sense, we should be able to provide about 12 different Schenker graphs for any serial composition, "proving" that it's actually in each of the 12 keys.

[@stacie1595]

When I first heard Olivia's song, i was shocked and excited to see punk pop back on the radio. I loved Paramore and punk-pop in general when I was a high-schooler so to see current teenagers have their own iteration is awesome. I don't think Olivia stole anything, she just made her version of punk music for her generation and good on her for that!

[@rhel373]

Agreed, sure it seems pretty derivative but I'm just kind of excited a song like this can even be a hit right now!

[@hatorade1031]

Definitely. I was like "This reminds me of Paramore. I love it!"

[@ayyguevara8448]

really not trying to be a purist but this really isn't punk

[@stacie1595]

@@ayyguevara8448 that's why I tried to refer to it as pop-punk (in the vein of Paramore, fob, alt). Genuine punk is definitely very different from this.

[@inyrui]

@@ayyguevara8448 imo I don't even think it's pop punk lol it's just pop

[@MrPineappleTime]

When I was a teenager in the 2010s I used to love pop punk exactly for that: because It sounded always almost the same. I just enjoyed the feeling and energy those songs gave me and I wanted It for the longest time possible.

[@nickmonks9563]

You nailed it. I poo poo the genre as much satirically as out of my own egotistical superiority complex...but you're exactly right. That's the sound you like. And the sound is the energy. Though some other music may be more "complex" or "different", it often comes down to the same thing when it comes to preference. How different is one neo-prog song from another? One industrial song from another? One baroque pop tune from another? Ultimately we get hooked on the sound...the production...the pattern...the energy...and that's just fine. "My" music doesn't have the special sauce that gets you going the way "your" music does, and vice-versa. Legit.

[@EightToneSpanish]

@@nickmonks9563 Iron Maiden, Iron Maiden, Iron Maiden. Up the Irons.

[@miunya]

That's how I feel about modern 80s and synthwave vibe songs. Also disco inspired. Sure they sound the same but its such a good genre to me that I'm OK with it. Kpop is a big example for same sound lmao lets face it but we love it

[@arcaneminded]

"When I was a teenager in the 2010" weird flex

[@cadecapper4577]

This is how I feel too, if I like a song then of course I'm going to want to hear other songs that sound similar to it. Imagine if we could only have one song of each type/genre/sound/whatever, no one would ever listen to music again

[@riichobamin7612]

I think getting an original music is next to impossible. Art imitates art, artists inspire other artists. So as long as due credit is given, I think there is not problem.

[@mm4843]

The problem is that Olivia did not give the credits

[@yukiableful]

The problem is, how do you give credit if you don’t even realize you were inspired by another song that exists.

[@riichobamin7612]

@@yukiableful can you elaborate a bit more please ?

[@Aisha_Luv]

@@riichobamin7612 sometimes people just accidentally get inspired by a song in their subconscious, and dont even realize it, in which case I think its fine.

[@mhdfrb9971]

@@riichobamin7612 because you didn't discovered much music and only listen to mainstream pop

[@kirsten0233]

Olivia Rodrigo's music isn't my thing but I'm sick of the double standards. Bruno Mars' entire catalog rips directly from the likes of Jimi Hendrix and James Brown, and no one bats an eye because it's "creative inspiration" and "throwback." Olivia makes one song in the style of Paramore and she's a talentless plagiarizer because there's only room for one woman in pop-punk apparently.

[@xxTHExxABYSSxx]

No one bats an eye? We hate when he does it too. Don't make this a sex or gender thing. Idk why people always do that instead of attacking the actual issues. Stop stealing, stop listening to stolen work, ignore singers who do this forever, until they stop and the industry stops allowing this as normal practice.

[@xxTHExxABYSSxx]

Plus, she's been accused many times for plagiarizing songs, so it's nothing new for her to do, stealing music.

[@Sid00077]

Ig thats due to the age of Jimi's and Paramore's audience. People who listen to Jimi won't necessarily listen to Bruno and if they do, they are more likely to appreciate Bruno giving a nod to Jimi and not make a big deal out of it.

[@erichughes3987]

@@xxTHExxABYSSxx "We hate when he does it too" ok, good 4 u. The greater internet doesn't care though, I've heard nothing about this. And literally this IS how songs are written, it is PART of the creative process, I'm not sure if you're a composer or not, but if you are, I recommend becoming a little more open minded.

[@wingracer1614]

It's an understandable viewpoint but I do think there is a difference between Mars and Rodrigo. Mars puts out new songs in the style of someone else. Yes they sound like they could have been songs from an album by that artist but they don't sound EXACTLY like one of that artist's song. Rodrigo is just doing alternate lyrics to someone else's songs. Think of a non-comedic version of Weird Al. And it's not just once. Every single I've heard from her is a ripoff. Alternate lyric version of Kesha's Praying, alternate lyric version of Paramore's Misery Business, Deja Vu is just an alternate lyric version of Taylor Swift's Cruel Summer. This is a pattern. Yeah Mars copies styles but while Locked out of Heaven sounds sort of like the Police, there is no Police song it could be an alternate lyric version of.

[@nintendonut100]

Costello's response to the accusations that Rodrigo ripped him off was the most based response I've ever seen an artist give to this sort of thing. Things like this are part of why I love that guy.

[@waytoobiased]

such great takes are almost…Beyond Belief.

[@laserbeamlightning]

bro even copied his first name off another artist so I mean saying anything but would've been a mistake for him

[@thegoatriderfromthesands2646]

actually admitted it was the reason for the name.

[@MusicisWin]

I am suing, this video is a direct copy of mine, see u in court Adam-I know this guy who does crazy awesome breakdowns of copyright stuff on KZbin I'm gonna text him now

[@jaedii7287]

Really disgusting behaviour Adam, I expected more from you.

[@lolzlarkin3059]

I'm hoping for an interpolation credit to appear in the future.

[@niauropsaka]

I knew it! Guitarman/bassist fight!

[@ByRoherr]

I REALLY need that Taylor x Paramore mashup and the Green Day x Olivia Rodrigo, HOLY SHIT THAT SOUNDED GREAT

[@simonlindsley8433]

I've thrown the stems together on my account in case you're still looking for it !

[@earnnovaksmashups2513]

Ill upload them to my channel

[@andersonniu4800]

Green Day x Olivia rodrigo sounds awful tbh

[@unlikelygamer]

Here's one: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ap-wqGeCibR2jsU

[@tarabear7744]

@@andersonniu4800 agreed! I’m a big Green Day fan and I already don’t really like their new album they put out plus her music isn’t the greatest either just my opinion their voices wouldn’t match up very well :/

[@IanRoach17]

I liked how you pointed out the "its not stealing, its folk" many of my favorite folk songs directly rip melodies from previous songs that were well known in their communities because then once you learn the words everybody could sing a long

[@InventorZahran]

''Farmer-Labor Train' and 'Grand Coulee Dam' are both interpolated from the tune of 'Wabash Cannonball', which itself was an interpolation of an ever older song. Similarly, 'Sinking of the Reuben James' is based on the melody of 'Wildwood Flower', but with an added chorus section. There are many more examples, but this tradition of reusing popular melodies used to be totally acceptable in the early to mid- 20th century. Then as music became more of a commercialized industry, there might've been increased pressure to make every new song sound unique and different.

[@TehJosh]

@@InventorZahran I mean, the Alphabet Song and Twinkle Twinkle Little Star are the same melody, and nobody bats an eye.

[@InventorZahran]

@@TehJosh I always thought that was so it would be easier for young children to sing them without memorizing a large number of melodies...

[@AndrewAMartin]

@@InventorZahran It goes back even farther, into Christian church music - secular traditional and classical melodies were used as settings for hymns and psalms all the time. Like you said, it makes it easier for the congregation to sing along if the melody is familiar...

[@Default78334]

@@InventorZahran A lot of sea shanties are reused Irish folk tunes.

[@TonyArechiga]

My daughter was listening to Olivia and the first thing I said "This sounds like Paramore!" I didn't realize how deep this rabbit hole would take me. Haha

[@Cowboy1Brian]

I just arrived here! LOL

[@leej-]

@@Cowboy1Brian me too

[@zerocool7408]

Pop punk sounds all the same. Misery business is not very original in itself

[@friendlyneighborhoodposer]

Something similar happened to me a while back. I was listening to Misery Business while chilling in the pool and my younger sister asked , "Is that Olivia Rodrigo?". The disrespect 😂

[@overyourheadtop]

never compare the pop sellout rodrigo to queen vocalists hayley williams

[@ethandonnelly1973]

"Wait it's all the same song? Always has been" Studying music is basically that meme. Which probably explains why college for music has the habit of absolutely murdering the classes music preferences.

[@Miglow]

In Irish trad there's this common trope. At least in my circles: When you are new all the music just sounds the same. When you start to get it, you learn that every tune is unique and special When you get really good, then you start to realize that all the music sounds the same. Then someone inevitably says: there's only 6 tunes, only just played slightly differently. Also, those 6 tunes are really also all the same tune moved around a bit.

[@plebisMaximus]

Black Sabbath was created off the bassist failing to play Gustav Holst's Mars. Culture is built on pre-existing culture, claiming you can steal artistic concepts like melody is ridiculous, that's just how it works.

[@browncoat697]

@@plebisMaximus And ripping off Holst's Mars has basically been John Williams' entire career!

[@KyrieFortune]

@@plebisMaximus all music for the past century is just a remix of The Planets, honestly

[@themrbeenounshow1912]

@@Miglow ayyyyy a fellow Irish Trad musician

[@Mewse1203]

Boulevard of Broken Dreams itself is considered a "rip off" of Wonderwall.

[@TeaReesa26]

I can’t unhear that now.

[@ThePathOfTheWind]

Böa's acoustic version of Duvet also sounds the same as Wonderwall.

[@domdaddylucifer7556]

Also "Your love is a lie" by Greenday

[@Mewse1203]

@@domdaddylucifer7556 That's a Simple Plan song, but played point stands.

[@lazilexi]

well yeah, but Boulevard is such a great song compared to Wonderwall...

[@DanielRodriguez-gm1ih]

Can you imagine if we couldn’t use the same chord progression once a song it’s out? We would run out of chord progression in a day!

[@samanthacollier8933]

That is why it is more than just a matter of progressions.These two songs have the same rhythm, vocal melody, and structure in BOTH the verse and chorus. You can at least expect a different verse if you're going to use the same chorus melody and structure in a song. At least if you have even just a little bit of a desire to create something different. This is no different than shooting a TV series with the same scenario over and over again just because people like it. It might be okay for people to enjoy, but as a music fanatic, it bothers me and deserves no appreciation since there is not even one thing I can call unique or new. These examples are also ridiculous because Bob Dylan has a very unique style and there will be no such argument in true artists' originality like Led Zeppelin or Nirvana. Because they were one-of-a-kind, no one bothered to accuse them of plagiarism. If there were no innovations in music, then why wouldn't people just make computers create the music, choose a pretty 18 year old girl to sing with , shoot an overly sexualized music video, and everyone would be happy. I just can not accept someone who is stealing a song and getting all this, like, love and money for it.

[@haveheart2630]

These baseless cancel culture plagiarism claims will only hurt artists. It will make real copyright/plagiarism issues harder to take to court if people start losing cases for slightly similar melodies. I’m glad everyone stood by Olivia on this one.

[@dana102083]

its funny cuz my friends will ask me to play a song on my guitar and be all "omg how do you know how to play a song so quickly!".. I'm like.. same shit different pile.. so I'd ask them what some I'm playing just for fun, and usually I will just say they're not right for fun so they can see how many songs are that similar lol sometimes I will get something in my head and by the time of the chorus I'll switch to another song haha :)

[@haveheart2630]

@@dana102083 keep those friends!!! Music scene gets real fake once you start making money.

[@repentofyoursinsandbelieve629]

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.” John 3:36

[@hunterwright4388]

7:00 minute mark is the most important part. Chord progressions lead to similar melodies. Add in punk format and you have an even smaller canvas to paint on, so naturally brush strokes overlap. End of all the cases.

[@Technizor]

I suspect that part of the crowd calling things "stolen" is because they like one song and hate the new one despite/because of the similarities.

[@lebarbosa9778]

I like Olivia Rodrigo's more but she stole it. Whatever...

[@yoo571]

It's just nostalgia, people don't like when someone else touches "their" nostalgic thing they attack the new thing, even if "their" thing has done the same

[@carrotsmokingapipe9415]

@@yoo571 exactly, same thing happens with games. And it it sooo stupid bc it is art, the only thing that matter when it comes to art is if you enjoy it or not

[@someghostinthewild]

@@lebarbosa9778 "she stole it" jeez, did you see the video at least xd

[@pvanukoff]

Unless you can peer into the minds of the people who composed/produced the Rodrigo song, it's impossible to prove it was intentionally "stolen". All creative endeavors are subconsciously influenced by previous things we've seen or heard or experienced.

[@enenenergp]

Wow, my jaw dropped at the greenday overlay, on their own I couldn’t tell they were similar at all!

[@ThatFilmisGnarly]

Hum those tones everyday and youll realize 90% of your favorite pop/rock songs use those same tones.

[@paavobergmann4920]

@@ThatFilmisGnarly that

[@moonlightfitz]

Yep. Yep.

[@wontonii232]

That's the beauty of music theory kiddo!

[@rebekahengland25]

ugh. thank you for this. i'm a HUGE paramore fan but had trouble even seeing the similarities for so long. even though it's there a bit that's not the same as stealing. people just wanted them to compete bc society loves pitting women against each other. the band themselves don't have a problem, the fact that people are STILL claiming she stole from them is ridiculous

[@MD-uu5nt]

When you say "society loves pitting women against each other..." I think what you really want to say is women love pitting women against each other. Men don't really give a shit about celebrity nonsense...women take each other down more than anyone.

[@Bluerock121]

If you really can’t hear how similar the songs are, you’re tone deaf

[@miwo4984]

@@Bluerock121 or the circle of songs u listen to are just too small if u think its similar 🤣

[@HiItsMars]

“People love putting women against each other” Okay listen you absolute buffoon. Olivia ADDED PARAMORE TO THE SONGWRITERS CREDITS. She stole the theme clear as day. Give me a break. Are you tone deaf????

[@HiItsMars]

@@miwo4984 she added Paramore to the songwriters credits because they wrote the song she stole lmfao. Cope

[@Geinedofv]

"Structurally, both songs are just Three Blind Mice. That's at least the Schenkerian way of looking at it." LMAO deceased

[@egress8445]

Gave me flashbacks to theory class in my undergrad...fuckin schenker 😵

[@milanstevic8424]

rofl

[@cdescario8174]

lmao I was reading this when it came up

[@RoninWaffle]

Can someone fill me in on the reference?

[@davidgoeschguitar6505]

@@RoninWaffle Heinrich Shenker was a German composer/theorist who analyzed music in layers. Worth googling him if you are interested in how to understand how composers like Beethoven wrote symphonic works and can be applied to any style of music.

[@ExtraMichael]

Ugh finally, thank you for the first sober, non-hyperbolic analysis of these songs! Yes, they're kinda similar. Yes, they're both great. Yes, every great artist has done this. End of story.

[@Artimu5]

This exact same phenomenon is seen even beyond music, such as in literature, where it is actually celebrated. It’s widely known and accepted that different character types, tropes, clichés, story structures, etc. are inspired by and recycled from other works. I’ve even read textbooks that encourage finding these similarities between different books to find deeper meaning within the newer works. Art doesn’t exist in a vacuum, and that carries over to music as well. All artists and songwriters take inspiration from motifs and tropes of their own favorite artists and make it their own, and I think that’s beautiful

[@heythere6983]

It’s an obvious steal. Her verses are quiet and fast spoken just like paramore . The drum leading into the chorus is basically the same. Drum roll to lead into chorus. And as the guy mentioned the chorus feels the same . If you can’t hear that and think every song in pop punk is the same then you really have no idea what you’re listening to and are just a consumer and not a fan of music . It’s like making a new Star Wars and calling it war of the stars . It’s not loosely similar, it’s really similar .

[@barebear0913]

@@heythere6983 lol did you even watch the video?

[@itsmebeter3538]

@@heythere6983 shut up you’re literally wrong

[@TokuMGTT]

Archetypal derivation is always fun :)

[@theactorjohnlarroquette]

Ur equating influence to plagiarism. There is a spectrum and this is far along on the plagiaristic end.

[@Nabium]

Back when I was writing, I discovered that the book I was writing was basically a copy of a book that impacted me as a teenager, without me even realising. It was a real exitential crisis for me as an aspiring writer. What got me over it was and advice from a William S. Burroughs interview, where he explained how everything is a copy of something else, and the only way to make something seem original is to copy something intentionally. That way you have control enough to be able to hide where you copy something from. While if you try to write something original you just risk copying something without realising it, and thus you won't seem original at all. It makes me think that when we hear these claims of some artist robbing off other artists, that's probably the cases where the artist were trying to be the most original. While the times artists intentionally stole things from other songs, they made sure to make it their own way and we just have no clue of the influence.

[@52ndWarhawkGerbil]

I feel like this whole situation is so silly. Bringing old ideas to new generations in a package that is more digestible to their modern sensibilities is totally fine with me. It's cool to appreciate the works of the past, but I'm not expecting everybody to only listen to The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd etc forever. If we really wanted to take this to its logical conclussion we'd be all exclusively listening to medieval church choir music. People really need to stop looking for things to be angry about and just enjoy the music.

[@ZEBASS]

And now that you mention, Zeppelin themselves had their fair share of copyright issues. This is nothing new! :D

[@tamari1127]

Medieval church choir music, lol.

[@13thvarebel16]

Not that there's anything wrong with Medieval Church Choir music. I saw them at the Filmore in '89 and THEY KICKED ASS!

[@brunogasparoto7150]

The thing it's not about bringing old thing to modernity, it's about coping, having this level of similarity its really really unlikely to just happened randomly. And yeah, if the people where more into music they would have considered it and not give a shit for this

[@jonathansuarez8850]

Simply Cause Olivia rodrigo is trash and unoriginal

[@issyclaire8698]

the only reason people think it's the same is that they're clearly not listening to pop-punk a lot. a lot of songs sound extremely similar, even within the same band like Paramore they have songs that are hard to differentiate at first but once you're familiar it becomes obvious how different they are. if you listen to early 2010s music that was on the radio it was all so similar and there wasn't a problem, but because there is a separation in time and the current young generation isn't familiar with this type of music they don't see the differences, only similarities. it's like listening to metal for the first time, it all sounds so similar until you're familiar with it.

[@pickles224]

Exactly. This kind of music hasn’t existed in the mainstream for like 12 years, so what else are we going to compare it to other than the past? I think this is why it’s become difficult for rock to break into the mainstream; it’s definitely poised to do so, but until it establishes its cred as popular genre again, everyone’s just gonna keep comparing it to the past. People need to realize that this kind of female-fronted pop rock is a genre all its own, not a sound that’s exclusive to Paramore. Aside from them, artists like Avril Lavigne, Kelly Clarkson, Demi Lovato, Orianthi, and Hey Monday also have done this female-fronted pop rock sound. If people go listen to those artists and then listen to Good 4 U, it doesn’t like Misery Business anymore; just a song that happens to be a part of that genre.

[@andy6877]

Yeah lol when i saw people making the argument all i could think was like.... most pop punk sounds exactly like this? Lol like paramore as great as they are are no different? There id only so much you can do with as little time and chords as you get for contemporary songs. Its not like how on classical you can have hours to play and explore and develop thematic material of you want, you have to package it in and that only leaves so many options

[@saavvy]

Even though both music videos wore blue cheerleader outfits 🧐

[@heythere6983]

It’s an obvious steal. Her verses are quiet and fast spoken just like paramore . The drum leading into the chorus is basically the same. Kick from roll to lead into chorus. And as the guy mentioned the chorus feels the same . If you can’t hear that and think every song in pop punk is the same then you really have no idea what you’re listening to and are just a consumer and not a fan of music

[@pickles224]

@@heythere6983 you could say the same things about Avril Lavigne’s The Best Damn Thing too. But no one compares it to that. It’s obvious that Rodrigo took inspiration from Paramore to write the song. She admitted it. But is it “similar” enough for Hayley Williams and Josh Farro to get literal writing credits for it? I don’t think so. It’s an obvious ploy by Paramore’s record company to squeeze some money out of this extremely successful song. Even if Rodrigo “stole” Paramore’s song, Williams probably doesn’t even care. She hates that song now. She said the lyrics don’t connect with her anymore and the band doesn’t play it live.

[@slay2081]

There are billions of songs that have been written in history how do you expect one to be absolutely unique and different from all the others

[@matieyzaguirre]

because lawyers

[@stackered]

just dont copy a super unique song to the exact note and vocal pattern.... she literally just copied it with different lyrics man. this ain't it

[@stackered]

@les rete the vocalization patterns, which made Misery Business unique and why it was such a hit, was a direct copycat.. as well as the subject matter in the lyrics. this is why they gave Paramore writers credits on the song and are paying them royalties now

[@mightyloa5704]

well, Bohemian Rhapsody was, and it did hit Billboard. you just have to be a little more genius (sry just an oldschool fan rant here)

[@angrysealion2259]

@@stackered no actually the vocalization is not that similar it’s just the instrumental and only in the chorus

[@otislima7916]

I wish people would lean into these similarities more and just did more mashups lol

[@Tdiarocks123]

That's why I love Ava Max, she samples a lot of classics but makes them new

[@MaijaFeykind]

My favorite pop song of the past few years is that version of Midnight Sky by Miley Cyrus that leans into the similarities between Edge of Seventeen by Stevie Nicks and itself and basically turns it into an official mashup of the two. It’s a good little tune.

[@madeofdots]

i remember misery business and we are never getting back together being mashed up a lot back when that song came out lmao. and as someone who looooooooves to do mashups and has a whole list dedicated to new mashup ideas - so many songs can be put together well. it's part of the fun and it only enhances what makes each song great for me. and these copyright arguments are always kinda frustrating to me considering the long history of music being used by other artists and expanded upon or played with as part of the exchange and creation of music.

[@tricksfollies9549]

I mean, somebody mashed up *Pachelbel D* and "Starships" by Nicki Minaj, and that works way too well.

[@jamesrumsey6839]

If you like the songs and the artists don't care, then, surely, everyone wins. I have always loved the sharing of ideas between artists. When artistic minds bounce ideas and themes off each other something amazing can happen. It's only when something is completely plagiarized that I start to squirm; especially if the victim of said plagiarism cries out, 'No Fair!' and nobody listens or seems to care.

[@alxjones]

Honestly, I don't even care about the artists' opinions, as long as it's not affecting the artists' ability to be successful or recognized. In this case, I simply don't see that happening. Is there a significant section of the population which will stop listening to Misery Business in favor of Good 4 u? I think most people at this point have stopped listening to Misery Business already, and the people that still are most definitely won't be swayed by Rodrigo's tune. If anything, all the talk about how similar the songs sound to some people has brought more newcomer traffic to Misery Business, and thus Paramore, so this is probably a net positive for them just from that. Although, like you say, if it was a legitimate plagiarism case, things would be different. But these tunes are only similar in the ways that so many other songs in the Western pop paradigm are, and are different in all the ways that truly matter.

[@DH-bf9xb]

I feel like this shows a distinct lack of concern for lawyers and lawyering. Lawyer-ist!

[@marike1100]

@@alxjones First, lots of people still listen to Misery Business, it’s one of Paramore’s most streamed songs, people like MGK and others do covers of it. Second, Good for U is obviously plagiarism or Rodrigo’s management would not have signed over fifty percent of the publishing rights. They had no choice as they knew they would lose in court. It’s so funny how Rodrigo fans are spinning this. 😂

[@GamingOS]

@@marike1100 Doing it because they "Knew they would lose in court" does not equal "They were guilty of plagiarism".

[@thoticcusprime9309]

@@GamingOS notice how many other songs that sound similar didnt have this issue. similar lyrics, etc. white knight more

[@Markle2k]

I have a feeling that music credits in the future are going to look like the authors page on a scientific paper based on result from CERN. Longer than the structure of the work itself.

[@ShadowRaven66669]

Can we not just appreciate that Olivia Rodrigo managed to nail a sequel to Misery Business written from the perspective of the ex girlfriend? Genius.

[@thorman944]

Ever noticed that 'I am the sky' from AS2 is God's response to the human questions posed in 'like a stone' from AS1? get back to me when you understand. THAT was genious. THIS is at best a pale imitation.

[@ShadowRaven66669]

@@thorman944 why are you talking about AS on an Olivia Rodrigo video? Two completely different artists and genres.

[@eli2210]

Yeah but it’s cringe when guys write songs about their ex yet praised when girl does it. Double standards

[@economicsjingle]

There are also cheerleaders wearing blue who are extras in the misery business music video!

[@HiItsMars]

@@thorman944 are… you comparing audioslave to Paramore..???

[@johnhalloran1650]

I think this is just a troubling phenomenon of musical gatekeeping. I think people want to hold onto this pure creative view of music and that this attitude cannot be tainted by the popular mainstream music. I think this is incredibly troubling with (pop-)punk music where it generally is characterized by it's pure raw and emotional artistic act, so when a rising popstar like Olivia makes a song with some similar and very common characteristics sound similar to a song, people want to tear it down.

[@Ashley-km4qi]

I completely agree. Most of the time you hear these gatekeepers wishing genres like pop punk and rock would come back, and when someone finally does then they tear them apart. Particularly pop artists. I remember Billie Eilish did a small cover of Smells Like Teen Spirit and a lot of angry men ripped her to shreds in the comments. It made no sense.

[@AdamEmond]

I have been waiting for this analysis from you for ages. Thank you!

[@amrazing33]

Found another Adam!

[@gyorgyst5086]

I heard about this case by Rick Beato

[@No-jr8dx]

For ages? The song isn't a year old

[@bleuorb]

Yes

[@paradicsomharcos]

why? heyley williams from paramore made wrote this song to olivia.....

[@matthewpowell2527]

I love the U2 line from The Fly, "Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief. They all kill their inspiration and sing about their grief."

[@rasm0225]

It’s no secret at all.

[@raymartinez5389]

i dont like u2 but that is a pretty nice phrase

[@raymartinez5389]

@Nikos Antikythera u mean he is "the biggest piece of sh*t" ?

[@Matthew_Troll]

I think this stems from normal people not having classical musical education. And just because people are vocal doesn’t mean they are right. Song structure, chord progressions, and melodies have to follow set rules. When you narrow the field and have great artists pouring their souls into their music while at the same time paying tribute to their influences this will inevitably happen. Never forget that you were inspired by someone to pursue music in the first place. I’m sure that Haley Williams and Taylor Swift are just grateful that their art has had an impact on such a talented young person. I am super impressed by Olivia and you can tell that she knows her stuff from a songwriting perspective. I’m excited to see where she goes in the future.

[@edwardcardona717]

It's always so frustrating to see people without any music education or understanding think that music can just be owned, or should be owned. Absolutely nobody is original, if you've ever heard music before, if you create more it's going to be based on something you've already heard. Entire genres might as well just be a set of Themes and Variations.

[@zackwyvern2582]

Nobody is original, but some music are closer together than others. At what point do we let actual plagiarism go just because they changed some things up slightly? (I'm not saying Rodrigo plagiarized.) This doesn't pass in science,where the structures of paragraphs is often enough to demonstrate plagiarism. I guess its just accepted for popular music to be so unoriginal after all.

[@lethalpenguin61]

That’s not necessarily true. If absolutely nobody is original then who made the first song? You sound like you can’t think critically.

[@letBIGGIErest]

@@lethalpenguin61 bitch no single person “made” the first song. Music evolved through years of evolution and cultural development. The first “songs” we’re probably tribal chants that wouldn’t even be considered music by modern standards.

[@nataliaf.6289]

the only problems is that music is owned and it pays to own it. for me the trouble here is how much of olivia songs have interpolation and not just that all of that songs also have massive budgets and are launched by a massive company, Disney, that is trying very hard to make her an icon. It scaries me that normalizing interpolation the artists will be even more just a collage of elements a marketing team mixed up under a face.

[@pwhqngl0evzeg7z37]

@@letBIGGIErest It doesn't really matter that no one person made the first song, though it's extremely likely that the set of isolated individuals to first sing in their regions did not do so at the same exact time. Regardless, going from primitive grunts to a chant is an undeniably original process. Going from chants to a more structured piece is also an undeniably original process; hence the individuals who did these things first in their isolated region are original. It's absurd to say "absolutely nobody is original."

[@just_jedwards]

My immediate reaction to your first question about if they sound the same was "no, that's just what that genre sounds like."

[@Unknownusername1004]

Literally what my initial thought was. It’s lazy pop punk instrumentation and simple pop vocal melodies. Not saying it sucks definitely not something I’d listen to either though.

[@JuliaAllenHesse]

I'd be super impressed if someone could do pop-punk and *not* sound like the unbroken string of similar bands dating back to the Ramones.

[@Unknownusername1004]

@@JuliaAllenHesse there are a lot of them but they usually have other elements from other genres

[@Dowlphin]

You can even go one step further and imitate someone's iconic style and it would still not be a ripoff. Might even be a sincere homage. You know Dire Straights, right? Check this out: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eqCzlWmmbpl1laM (4everfreebrony - Momentum)

[@Razmatini]

literally since i was a kid i've had this fear that i would write a song that accidentally sounds like another song and i would be accused of plagiarism even though it wasn't intentional. so definitely what i needed to get over that was a precedent of aggressive litigation...

[@batty.b]

I *REALLY* want a full version of we are never getting back together with Paramores guitar that was fantastic

[@elliottgordon3679]

Found one m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/qKWxl3SsepenetE

[@louisrios5546]

When my interpolation of Sungazer's "Dream of Mahjong" becomes a massive pop hit, I hope that Adam will defend me in court.

[@TNTErick]

and i'll be adverting your remix so you'll get sued

[@philliptoole6439]

I'd also argue, as a musician (if you can apply that moniker to a drummer), that on a subconscious level even songs we "create" were likely influenced by something we've listened to previously. Besides, as noted, we can only do so much with 12 notes.

[@nthgth]

Of course a drummer is a musician, man!

[@philliptoole6439]

@@nthgth That comment was tongue in cheek as I AM a drummer.

[@nthgth]

@@philliptoole6439 I gathered lol I'm trying to buck the apparent stereotype

[@philliptoole6439]

@@nthgth I, for one, embrace it fully. I'm all about setting the bar low. LOL!

[@heythere6983]

It’s an obvious steal. Her verses are quiet and fast spoken just like paramore . The drum leading into the chorus is basically the same. Drum roll to lead into chorus. And as the guy mentioned the chorus feels the same . If you can’t hear that and think every song in pop punk is the same then you really have no idea what you’re listening to

[@GaelissFelin]

when i heard this on the radio i thought "wow this sounds like misery business. is this sound coming back into style? fuck yeah let's gooooooo" lmao. it's a great song! the lyrics are awesome. i love that teenagers are recognizing emotional abuse for what it is an not putting up with it anymore. it's def important to give credit where credit's due, but we shouldn't slam artists to the point that they're worried abt putting ANYTHING out for fear of getting cancelled. then we just won't get any more cool shit

[@roseberry-nj2ux]

Lmao theres a misunderstanding here. Everybody at my school tries to play the victim to drive pity. You won’t believe it till you see it.

[@sweeetjuicetv]

SAME OMG i was so hype bc i miss the pop punk era

[@alejandroochoa559]

No need to cancel. But if I made something, even inadvertently, so similar to someone else's work I would at least give credit and maybe reach out to them beforehand to show respect for their work.

[@brzt4256]

The world will have lost nothing if songs like Good 4 U were never written or published.

[@nathanielwise508]

@@brzt4256 tell that to the thousands of kids who adore her music. we should never snub what other people really enjoy even if it is not to our taste

[@vyliad]

I honestly love it when music goes so well together, I like to try to mash two great songs together cause I think it'll sound great, but I've only made one salvageable mess cause I don't know how to mix songs, but it's still fun and everyone is making a much bigger deal about this than it actually is, all the music that has ever existed or ever will exist has been written for hundreds if not thousands of years, and we've found 4 particular chords that work so well together for an incredibly catchy feel, we've built an entire music genre called Pop around them. If I ever work up the courage to write a song despite the hoards of people that will point to the song I'm statistically guaranteed to end up "copying" without ever having heard it, I would be absolutely thrilled to hear anything that people make with it. That's what rock and roll is built on, and I'm pretty sure that's what all music is built on. We shouldn't be attacking eachother over this, it's ridiculous. Even if the song actually did draw direct inspiration from the other song, that's not plagiarism, that's music. And y'all who are fighting need to chill and maybe listen to some.

[@TSMaster]

What happened to all your videos?

[@nothing3859]

Music has gotten so petty. Imagine if the Ramones chased every band that copied them. Would've been a bloodbath.

[@hodgiaparnell3307]

Tbh Paramores sound has moved on from their sound when misery business came out. If Olivia wants to play around with that sound now I say let her, it'll bring a new generation to pop punk and reignite love in old pop punk songs. Does explain why I suddenly like a pop song currently in the charts seen as it sounds like one of my favourites

[@sociallooter]

Why don't we all become commies

[@EternoUno]

yeah for sure if you compare misery business to hard times they definitely went a new direction.

[@Greenitthe]

@@sociallooter Not a bad idea tbh

[@ratatatuff]

I have always wondered: where's the "punk" in "pop punk"? I mean, Olivia Rodrigo doesn't have anything even remotely connected to "punk" in her music. That's simply a misleading label.

[@qwkimball]

Wow. The phrase "old pop punk" aimed at a band formed in 2004 makes my Psychedelic Furs albums feel really old.

[@erik_gerhard]

My first thought is “how is interpolating the hook of a song legal, when the Marvin Gaye estate can sue anybody and their mother for ‘groove and feel?’”

[@pelesrelewot]

Why are you Gaye

[@chinmaysambrekar9825]

@@pelesrelewot Who says I am Gaye?

[@shawnbay2211]

Laws aren’t ethics.

[@seany1539]

@@chinmaysambrekar9825 you are gaye!

[@thethirdcrouch]

I'm not sure if they credited Gaye though?

[@joshuaestrada6042]

They should totally do a duet together... Like at a concert... I think that's the musical version of hugging it out... If both artists took their music and combined it... I've heard a mashup and they work...

[@deltav864]

"I'm sure I've ripped off other people too." Adam Levine. "Yeah you did." Pachelbel.

[@takemyhand1988]

Also memories really has a same melody has a disney song.

[@deltav864]

@@takemyhand1988 To be fair, everyone rips off pachelbel... I like this comedian guy at a uni doing a rant about it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gJXbnImHrpyEgq8

[@burningsticks]

Its public domain

[@ecosound34]

@@deltav864 this was the very first youtube video i ever watched

[@arya6085]

@@deltav864 that guy did another pretty funny sketch too: kzbin.info/www/bejne/moLaZapvjMyLmbM Great comedian all round

[@anthonywestbrook2155]

Doing the "forensic musicology" on the two songs, then showing how that same analysis would apply to other songs is a really strong way of countering the argument. Well done.

[@terrier-9544]

Reminds me of how Doja Cat & SZA's song 'Kiss Me More' is an interpolation of 'Let's Get Physical' by Olivia Newton John!

[@neilkennethofficial]

Or even "Say So" sounding like one song (that I cannot recall) by Kylie Minogue.

[@Stevonicus]

@@neilkennethofficial and that Kylie song was just riffing on disco and R&B

[@Corbin2908]

Thing is, Doja explained that the she was inspired by that song while working on it. And it also sounds like she worked on it to make it sound like something new. Meanwhile, Dua & Miley's "Prisoner" is a more prime example for interpolation of "Physical". I think it all comes down to how the outcome feels when you listen to it. But that different outcome can only be heard if the artist really work on it.

[@cannedpineapple2702]

I literally cannot hear that sound without singing physical along with it

[@chrisparr7529]

I tuned into this video expecting a comparisons between sections but was actually engrossed with all of the music theory and detail. Honestly, great content - keep it up!

[@Mincher]

Let's talk about how good that "Same song" harmony was though.

[@cameronhiggins5622]

I was very much caught off guard by it

[@meimeirkgk]

3:06

[@rhuboy8048]

@@meimeirkgk I think it's 3:57

[@meimeirkgk]

@@rhuboy8048 thank you !

[@Souliest1]

Right? It sounded very similar to Digital Underground's song "Same Song". Good for Adam!

[@aimeeh2079]

Theres something so attractive about people who know their stuff so effortless and fluently I was hooked from the beginning of this vid

[@ashleyhamby7146]

Seriously! I had no idea what he was talking about.

[@resident_emo108]

I would love to see Adam’s take on how one would innovate with the pop rock genre in order to debunk the “there is only so much you can do, if you want to be unique play jazz ig” theory

[@loganstrong5426]

I mean, it's extremely easy to innovate in those spaces, honestly, and there is a ton of innovation happening in ways people don't generally talk about, but most artists don't want to. I don't mean that as a bad thing, either, just that most artists aren't looking to revolutionize the musical landscape, they want to tell their own story WITHIN the musical landscape already existing.

[@Miglow]

@@loganstrong5426 let's not forget that Adam didn't really cover the differences. Despite the similarities can we honestly say they didn't do something different than all the other songs that used a similar musical foundation? How different do things need to be to be innovative? I also have spent a lot of time with Irish music. Musicians are literally constantly playing and recording the same melodies that countless others have played and recorded. And, the repetition doesn't get old? Because there is still nuance and change and innovation despite people literally copying the same melodies over and over. (Which, actually jazz does that a lot too, to some degree)

[@Guzuma]

when i first heard good for you i knew i’d heard the song before even though it was my first time listening to it. i didn’t immediately recognize it as misery business which is weird because i’ve heard that song so many times i think both songs are good in their own right. pop punk was one of the genres i grew up with so i’m glad others’ nostalgia for it is seeping into pop music of today. (same goes for nu metal. actually the late 90s-2000s nostalgia wave in general since i have a lot of nostalgia for that time as a later born millennial)

[@NeonRadarMusic]

I find it really astounding that during an era when virtually the entire history of recorded music is available at our fingertips, people hear one song that sounds like another (which has literally the four most common chords in the known universe) and act like this has never happened before. Also, are we just going to ignore the fact that a rock song went to #1 in 2021?

[@Ashley-km4qi]

Which rock song?

[@EnnuiOn]

I don't keep up much with the charts but which rock song?

[@sean_mccadden]

@@Ashley-km4qi Hes talking about Good 4 U, it debut at No.1 on the Billboard top 100

[@binita4672]

@@sean_mccadden calling this shit song a rock song is an insult to us rock fans

[@GThenameisleo]

@@binita4672 It’s a rock song. Grow up.

[@miunya]

I'm happy that she sounded like misery business because I loved that era and ive always wanted more in this era but Haleys changed her genre. (And that's OK too)

[@bribear0030]

which is growth

[@miunya]

@@bribear0030 aint nothing wrong with that but that's just my reasoning for accepting back this style hehe

[@bribear0030]

@@miunya ok. Hehe.

[@celinakay4367]

Funny enough I love Paramore and it didn't even cross my mind about the similarity lol. Also, I've heard many many many songs that in my head sound like other songs especially in this genre. I think lawsuits like this are silly. Like look at how perfectly all these songs go together.

[@TP_Gillz]

If you love an artist, then how about supporting them getting credit when people blatantly rip off their music....

[@cirqu3859]

@@TP_Gillz I see you just didn't watch the video

[@TP_Gillz]

@@cirqu3859 I did watch the freaking video. His arguments of chord arrangments being stolen all the time is NOT the issue. Since basically, every single pop song uses the I - V -vi - IV. Or some slight variation. It's NOT the chords anyone cares about, or the key they are in, it's the MELODY and VOCAL melody over an extremely similar arrangement that is CLEARLY ripped off. It doesn't take a music theory savant to notice that.... ...And THAT'S THE PROBLEM. That kind of BLATANT STEALING of another artist's work, repackaged LAZILY like this for profit, and for acclaim, without credit being given to the original THAT YOU KNOW YOUR COPYING is F'ng bull. I am glad she lost the lawsuit. IF more people gave a crap maybe she would have given credit in the first place. But, she knows, like so many other artists, know people don't give a crap about musical artistic integrity the same way they don't give a crap about how their Big Macs are made. This is about as clear of a case of an artist copying another illegally as I have ever heard of one.

[@TP_Gillz]

@@cirqu3859 He is plain wrong and misleading in this video. Yes, pop songs do all sound similar, and have similar "vibes", even the same exact chords and beat arrangments. But what they don't do, is DO ALL OF THAT ON TOP OF ALSO COPYING THE MAJORITY OF THE MELODY. Melody and harmony have been forgotten about here. Yet, it's everything. Even original songs that don't have a clearly defined melody part, such as a vocal line or guitar solo, usually still have a distinct melody to them, which IS what makes them ORIGINAL. Otherwise, it's just a drumbeat or chord progression, which would not be under any copyright protection. That's NOT the case here. This guy forgets that. Any jury with EARS can tell she ripped Paramore off. She deserved to lose that lawsuit.

[@mattww7]

@@TP_Gillz There was no lawsuit, Paramore didn't even sue her, she was pressured by the public.

[@AugmentedGravity]

I just love this channel. Its adicting to watch, especially because you manage to put words and meaning into what my brain is hearing and thinking but can’t translate to words that mean something.

[@jorgeramirez84590]

Let's be honest guys, we've all been waiting for this one

[@krioni86sa]

Why?

[@badfaithnomination]

@@krioni86sa Many people have been talking about this lately.

[@badfaithnomination]

@@krioni86sa & Adam has tackled the Dark Horse controversy in his channel before, & as one of the most knowledgeable musicians on this platform, his thoughts on this should shed some light on the case.

[@sbyrstall]

I didn't since I never heard of either.

[@abbott5580]

Tbh did not know about this song until today.

[@Ashley-km4qi]

When an artist in this generation finally brings back pop punk, a genre people desperately wanted to come back and now that she did people are getting angry at her. She really can’t win. I hope this doesn’t discourage Olivia from experimenting with pop punk more in the future, because it really suits her.

[@iantaakalla8180]

I hope she keeps this style or at least keeps herself associated with it. It is a great revival of a style I enjoy

[@affedrew]

As someone approaching Old status, one thing that hooked me into the Good 4 U was all the influences I could hear. Specifically, the transitions between the end of the chorus and the start of new verse sounds like it could be a sample of the beginning of Carlotta Valdez by Harvey Danger, a song and band I love, and wish more people listened to.

[@ObsceneParadise]

I just went back and listened to Good 4 U properly with this in mind, and man, I can kind of hear what you're talking about. Carlotta Valdez is one of my favourite Harvey Danger tracks, and it's got that feel to it for sure.

[@ridesharegold6659]

That's part of the reason people love these songs. Because they're so comfortable and familiar.

[@johnwelch9661]

So many pop songs influence each other it’s such a bummer she got such grief for this.

[@VioletIsOnTheNets]

i'm genuinely so tired of every new "New Song stole from Old Song" discourse that comes up, because it always comes down to the exact same points: a. they're probably in the same genre b. songs in the same (or a very similar) genre, while not all identical, tend to be extremely similar c. let's say they _did_ actually look at Old Song and decide to copy the chords and melody - does it matter? do you _really_ care? to take that last point a bit further with this particular example: Misery Business came out in 2007. good 4 u this year, in 2021. it's been *14 years*, something tells me that good 4 u isn't gonna be "stealing" any streams or CD sales from Paramore. i can't think of any actual human who would listen to good 4 u and decide "well now i can remove Misery Business from my playlist because its been replaced by this new song", or inversely would hear this song and then stumble upon Misery Business thinking "i don't need this song i have the newer version" they'd either just listen to both or only listen to one because they weren't going to listen to the other in the first place the very nature of music is such that almost nothing is entirely original, which is _good_ because it means if you like one song, you'll probably find a ton similar to it

[@tobistein6639]

I think Paramore’s label might think that they can squeeze some dough out of the lawsuit and that the publicity of the suit will bring some traffic to Paramore’s older music.

[@BarbarosaNo]

Wow, that's such a fantastic point. The whole point of 'genre' is finding songs that sound similar to other songs you like. From that perspective, demonizing songs for sounding similar is hypocritical.

[@irishRocker1]

@@BarbarosaNo Yeah but why do we not constantly hear lawsuits about metal bands ripping off other metal bands? It's because they tend to be musicians writing their own songs whereas the whole pop industry is about fast turn around of whatever fits the current trend so the copy/paste and tweak a little. Usually by a writing panale or committee rather than an artist/musician.

[@BarbarosaNo]

@@irishRocker1 Interesting. I never really thought about it but tons of metal songs sound veeeeeery similar and you're right, not nearly as many visible lawsuits. Metal musicians know that most of their money is made from touring and merch, not royalties. So they might not care as much about plagiarism. Whereas a professional songwriter lives mainly off of royalties so they would naturally be very protective of that. I definitely think that for artists themselves, increased attention to the genre/scene as a whole can only benefit them, so getting copied probably helps their career more than anything.

[@Butts666]

I think you're working with the flawed assumption that this is even remotely about logic or being right or wrong. If a corporate lawyer sees the chance to squeeze even more money out of people of course they're going to jump at it.

[@gthobaben]

Adam discussing the relationships of notes to one another rips off Pythagoras.

[@ChunkyLover69420]

Paramore already getting royalties from the amount people listening to their music again from this link

[@jacklandismusic]

This happens a lot in genres like pop, punk, folk, and country, where relatively simple chord progressions are used. There’s only so many notes that can fit as a melody over those chords, and folks are bound to repeat them. “You Are My Sunshine” and “This Land is Your Land” start their verses very similarly. “Joshua Fit the Battle of Jericho” and “Didn’t My Lord Deliver Daniel” are pretty similar spirituals. “Mick Maguire” and “Hot Asphalt” are two Irish folk tunes with the same exact melody and chord progression. The fact that we are all building on the same musical foundations and being influenced by similar roots means that we’re bound to purposely or accidentally borrow pieces of what we’ve heard before. In most folk music traditions, but especially in Appalachian folk music, there’s a long-standing tradition of learning songs and techniques from other people, who in turn learned them from other people, and so on. By virtue of being different players, or because we decide to change something in the style we’ve learned, different techniques appear gradually, and styles change. I don’t see the problem with songs referencing each other, or having similar melodies. That’s what music is. “7 Rings” melodically referencing “My Favorite Things” is like the exact inverse of Bob Dylan’s “Moonshiner”, which is a song that is lyrically identical to an Irish folk song of the same name, but with a different melody. That’s how music works. We’re all influencing and being influenced by each other. Music is a lot like evolution. You can pick out the common ancestors, and follow the branching paths of slight changes from past to present. Each individual change may not seem like much at all, but in the larger context of deep time, we can see that huge shifts have happened.

[@Zaphod23]

If you look at Sherlock Holmes, when things go into the public we get endless amazing interpretations

[@stevedkelly]

Best thing for business, is for Haley to say, "Thanks for the credit. Let's collaborate on something." It's been done before with other artists and worked out, like when Billy Ray Cyrus and Lil' Nas X collaborated.

[@Feteronii]

hayley commented on it by saying that her publisher is "wilding" lol

[@xxTHExxABYSSxx]

Lol you're so wrong. This chick stole a whole song from Paramore and changed a tiny bit. Naz x and Cyrus collabed on purpose and released the song together. Massive massive difference.

[@digitaljanus]

You mean the collaboration that Trent Reznor got the royalties and country music award for? 😄 (Honestly, what a gift that track was, showing close most modern popular music genres actually are.)

[@xxTHExxABYSSxx]

@@digitaljanus another thing they aren't realizing. People really need to look into writers and production teams who actually own everything

[@renoutlaw8371]

@@digitaljanus Omfg people understand the difference between a straight up fucking sample and just having compositionally similar songs challenge

[@gallifreyFNM]

There was a great remix dubbed "Boulevard of Broken Songs" that used this exact concept to mix things like Green Day, Oasis and some other stuff; well worth a listen for those interested in the concept.

[@Maitch3000]

I remember back when Oasis claimed that Green Day stole from them.

[@KindredBrujah]

It's in the Axis of Awesome vid as well. Ancient in internet terms these days, mind you.

[@BeatleJWOL]

A modern-day version of that throwing in some Taylor and Olivia would be wild.

[@MrQuasar]

I heard this "Misery Business" song on the radio on the bus a month or so ago, and I realised it sounded JUST like "Good 4 u," so I immediately shazammed it to figure out which song it was.

[@surfskatechill127]

When I first heard the song I immediately thought oh someone is taking old musical structures I liked and making it relevant again. I personally don't see anything wrong with it especially since its not like they are claiming it was wholly original and Paramore doesn't seem to have any problems with it.

[@ThatFilmisGnarly]

Bruh, plenty of hip hop and pop in the past decade used this same chord progression. You just didn't notice because the producers used synthesizers instead of guitars

[@Thomas48484]

It’s like musicians are doing what they’ve been doing for a long time

[@LightsOnTrees]

I legit hopes she sees this. Too much of an old man for her, but I think she's doing a great job.

[@davidguthriemusic]

Misery Business, Boulevard of Broken Dreams, and We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together are all some of my favorite songs ever; I think I really like this chord progression and melodic motif LOL

[@Miki-hn5gv]

Same here lmao

[@MM-vs2et]

Well you're in luck coz pop music is chalk full of it

[@JamesOKeefe-US]

So funny, I was thinking the same thing 😆 😆 😆

[@draj8590]

I'm sorry

[@leon-lm7uf]

i also like taylors collab with zayn i dont wanna liver forever, its in this pattern too but on a slower tempo

[@koala4484]

Honestly with the amount of songs being written these days, it is physically impossible to not copy a part of another song

[@amc1140]

Yeah i wonder if its intentional though. Did Olivia really do this by accident?

[@Cebollaverde]

It’s very telling that this is only an issue when huge sums of money are involved. Poor artists are sharing/stealing from each other all the time and nobody bats an eye

[@kaya.serrano1693]

Yeah I forgot which artist said it, but someone from a pretty popular band said that they were allowed to sample/interpolate another big band’s song. They even asked for direct permission from them and the permission was given. Then after the song got popular, the band that allowed the use of their song, demanded more in royalties and tried to to file a lawsuit against them.

[@Miglow]

@@kaya.serrano1693 then the phrase "always get it in writing" comes into play

[@reillywalker195]

@@kaya.serrano1693 I wonder if you're thinking of The Verve and The Rolling Stones. The Verve got permission to use a sample from "The Last Time" in "Bitter Sweet Symphony", but they later got sued for 100% of their song's royalties after it became an international hit.

[@jmo8192]

I just find it amazing that inspiration has easily been blurred to the point where people think inspiration is instantly "stealing". Music is music, if there are different lyrics, different feeling, different emotion, it is not the same. It's amazing to me that if I heard a a song in a mall, like the flow and chord progression, then made a song based of that and posted it I would just be a copycat. Even melodies can be owned now so if I'm writing something from the heart, I best be careful because it may sound similar to someone else's song.

[@thorman944]

same feeling, same emotion, same chords, same song with different lyrics. sorry, your point is dumb.

[@ninezerotwo1778]

In a pure sense, yeah, but music is not just music anymore when it involves money.

[@pizzatime2584]

@@thorman944 lyrics are the most important thing when regarding a song especially in uniqueness as there are so many different ways lyrics can come together but chords and other things are much more limited

[@sofiabento3024]

Worst of all, I don't even think people think that, people want to think that, we live in a society where people normalize treating celebrities like punching bags.

[@xxr7938]

​@@thorman944did you even listen to the song lmao

[@oliveenkidu1]

Truly appreciate that you acknowledge the friction between the historical reality of musical appropriation for profit and the inevitable scaffolding of musical and cultural movements.

[@voguishthrone5887]

There’s this really cool mashup called “Good 4 U is a totally original song” or something like that that basically mashed up a lot of these songs- there’s a section tho with some of Inscryption music in the “maybe I’m to emotional” part which is *so good*

[@Inflake]

In the music world, everyone is constantly stealing but sometimes without the knowlege of you actually doing it

[@PalmelaHanderson]

It's not even just music, but anything creative. I know 2 comedians in the same city who independently came up with the same joke and both tried to say they did it first. I't like... they're freinds, they hang out, one of them might have told a story while they were out drinking one night and boom, they both get the idea for a joke and can't remember where they got it from. Music (or comedy in this case) is not created in a vacuum.

[@ArLnkin]

Is it stealing without intention? 🧐

[@j_a_m_e_s_]

Bullshit she knew what she was doing .

[@classykalai]

@@j_a_m_e_s_ Did you even watch the video?

[@veronicaelders4823]

The only thing I'd add is that Olivia Rodrigo has literally said Paramore & Misery Business was one of the inspirations behind SOUR. Like it could've been a subconscious done because she enjoys Paramore or a tribute, but Olivia was very well aware of the band and the song before writing and working on Good 4 U.

[@vanessaajohn]

Out of the billions of songs that are out making it impossible to create a new sound I’m glad she did, because Good 4 U is a banger.

[@user-lk2vo8fo2q]

the thing is, even if she literally said "i wrote this song to intentionally sound like misery business because i like misery business" that wouldn't be a problem and paramore wouldn't be entitled to shit. that's just how the cultural commons works. when you try to restrict this sort of thing, that's called poaching the commons.

[@GillianRice]

@@vanessaajohn better than Misery business that’s for sure :)

[@imagine5366]

@@GillianRice 🧢

[@raechuuu510]

You don’t need to add this because I think he made it clear she was inspired by them and no one ever claimed she wasn’t well aware of the band. He even said it may be a case of her wearing her inspiration on her sleeve a bit too much (paraphrasing bc I don’t remember exact quote)

[@hogpsking33]

That Good 4 U/ Boulevard of Broken Dreams mashup gave me goosebumps and I want more.

[@colinedmunds2238]

Look the 80s remix of BLVD then, you’ll dig it

[@xxTHExxABYSSxx]

How? One felt way slower and doesn't follow the melody even slightly, and is a different genre.. Chord progression do not match songs together, it's so much more than that.

[@katharinasei.1807]

Yes, please. More of that.

[@Dowlphin]

It is eight years ago now that I encountered "Green Day vs. Oasis vs. Travis - Boulevard of Broken Songs".

[@katharinasei.1807]

@@Dowlphin Thank you, kind sir/ma'am.

[@noodle6178]

i was desperately hoping for triple-q's mashup cover to come up somewhere in this and it didn't but i think it's both absolutely bonkers and makes an interesting commentary on what originality even means. it includes good 4 u, misery business, and we are never ever getting back together, *and* boulevard of broken dreams which was mentioned here, but it also brings in a bunch of super unexpected songs that no one was accusing good 4 u of plagiarizing, but either are fairly similar, or aren't but mesh weirdly seamlessly with everything else (disaster of passion from guilty gear strive, shut me up by mindless self indulgence, immigrant song by led zeppelin, some sonic fan song, etc.) really just shows that sure sometimes plagiarism in music happens but really everything is a lot more mushy and similar than people realize (also highly recommend their version for sucker by the jonas brothers, which combines it not just with a song it was accused of copying, but also with a song THAT song was accused of copying during its time (oh and also with a japanese idol game song titled "kyun! vampire girl" that as it turns out has sucker's EXACT melody))

[@sebwalsh7592]

I was hoping to see someone mention triple-q's mashup

[@Dashlt]

The mashup came out about 6 months after this video.

[@RoselynTate]

That time when I completely unintentionally jazzed up Bach's Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring for the piano part of a song I wrote (because they happened to share the same chord progression, and so the melody worked perfectly as a countermelody in my song) and literally had no idea until someone mentioned that they thought it was cool weeks later. I just thought I was clever for writing a cool countermelody. 😂 Sometimes when this kind of thing happens. it isn't even a conscious choice -- it's just that you happen to find something that fits the vibe of what you're going for, and as Adam says, there are only so many ways to go within that structure. So if something that has already been proven to work in that structure is floating around in your brain, you might use it without even realizing that's what you're doing.

[@IP2CxHistorian2]

ok, but youre not some trillion dollar music label that formulaicly copies old original hits just to prop up ur puppet of an artist...now are you? urs was an honest mistake....this aong on the other hand was not....

[@RoselynTate]

@@IP2CxHistorian2 If that's really how it happened, then that's one thing. But I think as Adam pointed out, there are other songs that are even better fits that weren't done on purpose? So I'm just not prepared to assume motivations of whoever the writers happen to be. If we're going to start crucifying artists for being formulaic, that's problematic, as Western music is by its very nature a formulaic creative process. All original hits build off of the music that comes before, whether or not you're familiar with their influences. Just because you don't know the sources they're inspired by doesn't mean that those inspirations aren't being heavily borrowed from. And that's been the case going back to medieval times -- it was common practice to borrow from other composers, and even from previous compositions of your own, through most of Western musical history. Even attempts to completely break away from current tradition show their influences in what they DON'T allow as part of their new idea (ie: Schoenberg and his transition away from Romanticism into the creation of serialism / The Second Viennese School). So I worry that if our focus as a society turns to policing the creation of art and music, it will lead to a reduction in the creation of truly great art, because artists will be too worried about unintentionally mimicking their inspirations and being sued for it to go there. That is not to say that outright plagiarism -- for example, an established artist stealing a song whole cloth (or barely changed) from an unknown artist -- shouldn't be punished. They absolutely should. But I think there's a fine line between making sure that kind of exploitation can't happen and the potential of shutting down creativity for fear of reprisal.

[@IP2CxHistorian2]

​@@RoselynTate for 1 adam never said that...for 2 he nor you can provide an example better than paramores song since thats the reference track in question...the problem with his comparative examples is that they arent similar in tone or vocal inflections...the copycat song sounds almost like a cover whereas his other examples sound like music theory...we all know pop has a certain formula but he ignored the cadence & various other elements while focusing too much on music theory...hes also a fan of taking old things & making them new so...its clear what side he takes despite paramore literally being credited which is an admission of guilt on its own....

[@moosesandmeese969]

People: "Olivia Rodrigo stole from Paramore!" Every pop punk band that tried to sound like Paramore: *Nervous monkey puppet*

[@1dareu2mov3]

*Rodrigo

[@KindredBrujah]

Paramore sounding like a bunch of pop punk that came before: *Nervous monkey puppet*

[@taxidrivernwo]

I like paramore but they were much later in the pop punk era

[@Ashley-km4qi]

Paramore didn’t even invent Pop Punk. People just hear a woman singing the genre and automatically think it’s a copy of Paramore, but don’t say anything when it’s a guy singing the genre.

[@therankingguru6960]

@@Ashley-km4qi Because Olivia is famous. Thats what jealous people always do.

[@corwin32]

Overlaid, it sounds like “Boulevard of Broken Dreams” as done by Blink 182

[@BollocksUtwat]

Thanks, now I can't unhear Tom DeLong butchering the inflections of that chorus.

[@eve_squared]

I feel like they police music too much like an invention or physical object rather than like a feeling. Songs will always sound like other songs because all songs are made of the same notes and to a lot of people chord progressions and patterns are not concepts they understand. People who strive to create unique music don't usually do it by changing key or rhythm, they change the sound itself such as Chicago fighting not to be a standard stage band and implementing brass in their music. Hotel California by the Eagles used a 12 string to create a special sound a lot of people hadn't heard before. Truly musicians never want to fight with each other over these things but the companies that sign them will go to the end of the world to squeeze pennies out of copyright claims.