Addressing Common “All or Nothing” Thinking | Exploring Fighting Games 02

[@jessc9324]

I made my husband watch this, he is a big fighter fan but gets discouraged easily when he goes online and loses to everyone, then he puts the game away until he feels "like it" again.

[@novriltataki]

Get him to watch episode 3 as well. I think it's going to blow him away.

[@TheArsmagnum]

Jessica C you are uncommon waifu, good for him

[@BankAlexander]

BasedJessicaC

[@Yun_Kurayami]

Git gud. Lolz.

[@VersusFate]

Divorce the scrub

[@Ourfairduke]

I'd like to say that, not always winning is the best way to have fun. Example: I play GG with a friend of mine and I can beat him every single time at the moment, so we devote a bit of time for serious gamplay and then when one of us gets salty, we just start to dick around doing stupid shit and not really caring on who wins or loses. I have more fun by fooling around than beating someone who has less experience than me. Also, some people don't take the game too seriously and just want to mash some buttons at the end of the day, that's what I understand by casual and that is perfectly fine as long as they realize that their progress will be impeded by their ability to just mash buttons that lets them have fun without stress.

[@polarnyne]

I could say something very similar. In my case, I got a friend buy Tekken who was very good at street fighter. Obviously, Tekken is a complete different game and took a lot for him to understand it. So, how did I played with him and have fun? Well, I just didn't apply Staple combos. I punished every single hit unsafe, but never into combo. That way, even though I was always in control, my friend didn't know that and had fun anyway. Eventually I started adding some difficulty while he started improving.

[@Toomnyusernae]

Playing competitively = less risk taking, more ambition to win. Casually = care less about losing, more willing to forgive mistakes.

[@yea-pn9fr]

Toomnyusernae There is also story mode in fighting games for casual. I play Blazblue because of it's story and characters. I didn't get Central Fiction all because of how Aksys scrapped the English dub like nothing and didn't notify the voice cast about it before hand.

[@hteety]

Super late to the party, but I dont think these are good ways to define the two. Rather, it's about your drive to improve. Comp players have a huge drive to get better, and until competition time, often hold less stock in winning and losing. They instead use most opportunities to practice. They'll do strong risky comboes over and over so come comp time, they have that combo in their kit. They will often take strategies that don't have much data to learn and experiment in match ups. Casual players are more about sport term enjoyment, amd don't usually strive for continual improvement. Instead they are satisfied with a base level of skill of their choosing, and happy to stick with what works.

[@spablabooknightcore8797]

I honestly never play video games competitvly but now I am giving Pokken tournament my all and its been fun. I have tackled some things in my life with the same mentallity you showed in the video and it has helped me. Thanks for the video, I can tell you put your heart into your videos.

[@c4dude333]

Thank you so much for making this video. This has been a very problematic thing as of late and you guys gave me a vastly better outlook on my situation. I can't thank you enough. Looking forward to your next video!

[@bulldogmicro4279]

I would argue that we are not always "playing to win". Depending on my opponent and what kind of personality they have , sometimes I end up playing for the "what if" factor. Fought this guy the other day on UNIST and he dp'd like 5 times in a row and I made a comback, he knew I was one hit, but instead of playing intelligently he goes brain dead and spans DP. I won that game, but I was laughing my ass off.

[@nepenthe_shroom]

Thank you for making this. This is a huge problem ive had for the two years ive been playing Smash

[@ratdotoislife3438]

i'm pretty sure people say playing casually and competitively are completely different because they have a mind set for one or the other before they start a match and it effects how you play this isn't that relevant in 1v1 games but in 5v5 or something similar it does because you may be able to change your mindset but your entire team might not.

[@MoldMonkey93]

This depends on the characters' execution requirements and the balance of universal mechanics (If at all) You'll be forced to learn X thing to even begin to be successful with Y character.

[@Mcraisins851]

4:26 You can blur out the whole video, but I'll still notice F.A.B.'s amazing potemkin

[@BloodyBay]

Generally speaking, Potemkin doesn't get nearly enough love. :-) (Neither does I-No, but, as someone who mains I-No, I can understand that one. She's a horrible, _horrible_ person. But man, she can completely shred that guitar, can't she? >;-) )

[@Thalanox]

One of the down sides of fighting games (2D ones especially), is that the long strings of unblockable combo makes it seem like a single player game, with the losing player just spectating. If you want to just combo-string someone to death without them being able to do anything, then why not just spend time in the lab? Why bother playing a game with a punching bag that's able to respond at all? On playing to win vs playing for fun, why not just unplug your opponent's controller so you can combo them without response? That's a win. Why not punch them in the face, and then win the game while they're processing what you just did? Why not send someone with wire cutters to your opponent's house so they can literally cut their internet cable so you can win an online game, like I hear the did in Eve Online? That's winning. I'm sure they had fun doing that. If I'm picking up a game of badminton or ping pong with someone, my goal is to enjoy myself with trying to keep the ball going as long as possible, because I'm not good enough to play competitively. They've played more of the game, and have likely played it more recently than me, who has played the game a half-dozen times in my life, with the most recent time being more than a decade ago. It is not reasonable for someone who has familiarity and basic competence to go as hard as they can against someone who's still learning the ropes. Imagine a professional sports team playing against middle schoolers, and having them try really hard to win as thoroughly as possible. The middle schoolers would stand no chance, and probably wouldn't have fun. The skill gap is significant, and can't be overcome. Before you can even think about playing competitively, it's necessary to make sure everyone has the baseline familiarity with the game's rules and systems. When I'm playing a game and bringing someone in to it, or they're massively less skilled than I am, the game turns into a "practice round" or some other way where they get tutored in the basic skills. Then, once they're comfortable with the way things go, we play a low-intensity competitive version of it, where the challenge for me is to match my skill output with what they're able to do. You can only call it winning when the opposing player is at or close to your own skill level, and you're both sticking to clear rules about what tactics you're not going to use, like the controller unplugging, punching, or cable-cutting mentioned above.

[@MoldMonkey93]

There's some games I stay away from simply because they lack straight forward answers or answers at all to things that I feel are inefficient at conditioning my opponents. Is why I prefer games Street Fighter and most 3D games. Lack of a supporting community is another. Playing competitive isn't the desire to win alone. It's the will to understand the established meta and playing with said meta that adds chemistry to your aforementioned playstyle. You learn the rules of the system and play characters that suit your path to playing the meta correctly. If a game favors only one real playstyle, it can be hard for people who prefer a different approach thus give up. People stick to what they know.

[@adwins1257]

FUN ALERT

[@thej-vu9213]

Thank you for this episode. I am always saying I play for fun but I really want to win. I think is just like you said, the sense of improvement, is the sense of fun.

[@MoldMonkey93]

I feel like there's no real middle man to this. I specialize in specific fighting games, understand frames and other concepts but I still find it hard to adjust to a new fighting game because of my personal beliefs based on the fighting games I do play mid-high lvl like SF (V's netcode is shit, can't play it honestly) VF5FS (I have to play offline which I have for 6 years and know it very well) It has taught me how to approach Tekken (Albeit theirs gripes I have with it as a VF player) I feel like there's not enough for me to try and play. Need some recomendations.

[@Wind_Falcon]

I stopped playing fighting games but not for any of the reasons in the video. First, I feel like playing the games I want I need a fighting stick, and they aren't available where I live, and if I order from abroad I will be skinned alive on the delivery costs. Second, I play on PC, and the community is relatively small for the games I want to play. Third, I don't like how by the time on PC we get the latest version, there is already a new one on the horizon for consoles, and I don't like how we are constantly nickel and dimed for new and improved versions/characters etc. And fourth, considering the small community, that means most people are very dedicated/veterans, and there are very limited/no ppl at my skill level, and after years of playing the veterans (meaning getting crushed 90% of the time) or owning ppl that have no idea what they are doing, I just had enough. There are simply more popular and fulfilling online competitive games out there.

[@KusogeMan]

the idea you need a fighting stick is absurd,play wherever you feel comfortable,sf5 current top players play on regular pads,for example

[@Wind_Falcon]

Watching various videos of top players for characters I played there was simply too much I couldn't do on the pad. Also playing SF like games (3 punches 3 kicks) for me personally is impossible on a pad. I don't know how others do it, but I can't. I even had better success playing keyboard than pad with SF. (The game I played the most online was the fan made online patch for Guilty Gear XX Reload, and when it died out I didn't have the motivation to learn a new game).

[@Ziko577]

I emulate a handful of Neo-Geo games on my DS and with its controls it works ok. Also, I have two versions of KOF on 360 & PS3 and have had no issues with controls. I hate sticks because when I played Tekken 4 at the mall when it had an arcade (it closed years ago and the space is used for another store now) it was a nightmare trying to do combos.

[@novriltataki]

@Ziko577 You expected instant gratification from an arcade stick. It doesn't work like that. You need to take the time to get used to it, knowing that you are playing worse now for the long term rewards later. Therefore the hardest obstacle is the psychological one.

[@novriltataki]

I simply cannot relate to any reason you mentioned. "First, I feel like playing the games I want I need a fighting stick" I've played many games with PS1/2/3 pads for years and it's rare to encounter something that *requires* a stick. "if I order from abroad I will be skinned alive on the delivery costs." Not sure where you are living but there plenty of options, like buying a smaller stick and replacing the stock parts with better ones etc. "Second, I play on PC, and the community is relatively small for the games I want to play." Which games and why is having a small community such a liability? If you have even a single serious person to play against then you can improve. "Third, I don't like how by the time on PC we get the latest version there is already a new one on the horizon for consoles" I play my fighting games on PC now. Getting Rev2 a week later and Tekken 7 a day later. I'm doing fine. "I don't like how we are constantly nickel and dimed for new and improved versions/characters etc." You don't need to buy characters you don't play, and it doesn't bother me to buy new versions because I get a lot of play time throughout the year from each. The REV2 upgrade is only 20$... I feel like the cost only became a problem in f2p games like Hearthstone which is one of the reasons I eventually quit from it. "And fourth, considering the small community, that means most people are very dedicated/veterans" Having access to veterans that stomp you is a GOOD THING. It means that in your environment is one that allows you to get to their level if not more. You can try replacing your approach from "it's impossible" to "It's possible but I don't understand how to do it *yet*" which I think is more accurate, and wait for episode 3.

[@DarttheLegend]

oooooooo, you put Tanukana in this vid, she is so adorable and also highly skilled Tekken player, I love her.

[@DrKaku01]

casually you can go to more fancy combos that are harder not that rewarding but are alot more fun to watch, competitively i just do 100% combos secure the win nothing fancy

[@Markedspain]

Great video, and great work on the narration.

[@greateststam1]

"Fighting games at higher levels is more fun than playing at lower levels" this statement seems controversial to me. I suppose it can be more exciting at higher levels just like a faster race is more frilling than a slower one but that doesn't make it more fun for everyone. Zero quit competitive smash because the stress of that consistantly high level play eventually made the game not fun for him. Where as lower level players dont hinge on the success as much and focus more on socializing about the game and enjoying the music and aesthetics.

[@novriltataki]

I'm sure it's stressful when you play for a paycheck, and when streaming and making clickbait vids earns you a bigger paycheck anyway.

[@trendngaming410]

GREAT VIDEO! Agreed with everything you said. It's funny I stream and play sfv alot which ppl say is a simple game at his core but higher lvl the mind games are real. On off days I can feel myself getting frustrated from things I could rectify or just not trying. This was great I'm very eager to get better at these games but I think I will start to take it easy and not force it too much

[@ridhoikhsani5009]

what does respect mean in the fighting game?

[@ridhoikhsani5009]

yeah, something like that!

[@ridhoikhsani5009]

Chaf Cancel thanks dude!

[@jettmanas]

Good video! A part of competitive vs fun is whether one must use their main (esp. on training stage). When I do ranked, I'm likely going with my main & there's less "fun" involved when points are on the line. But in casual matches w/a PSN friend or whoever, it can be fun to switch up the characters & stages. Unfortunately, I only can play weekends. But I've tried to stay encouraged in fighting games, despite slow improvement.

[@EnvyBlack666]

Getting some Maximilian vibe here

[@LuisHGarcia]

At least there's no reaction faces, overused/forced/unfunny memes and manufactured "hype" that's equivalent of junk food. Would you rather have that instead?

[@DatOneGuy901]

its the Street Fighter EX music.

[@jagoaqasha]

DatoneGuy whats the title? I really like it

[@victorruiz7862]

This is a great series

[@gameguru8]

Is episode 3 coming soon?

[@novriltataki]

A week after it's ready. Patrons get to watch earlier though.

[@federicocarlucci7973]

novriltataki you are building the hype A LOT for episode 3 XD

[@novriltataki]

You'll see that it's justified.

[@sasuke2910]

I'm getting PTSD flashback to the ending 60 seconds of every Guilty Gear Crash Course episode.

[@JustAStupidBird]

How do you handle a mental block such as "I want to win, but I feel like winning using X method makes me look like a jerk."

[@novriltataki]

Be a jerk

[@Thalanox]

Things like unplugging your opponent's controller, watching their button presses to see their moves ahead of time, screaming at random intervals to distract and unnerve them, and pushing them off of their chair to get them away from their controller for a few seconds are all tactics that will increase your chances of winning the game. I do think that you'd be a jerk for doing them, though, and I personally advise against it. It all depends on how competitive you are and how badly you want to see that win screen.

[@jagoaqasha]

Music at 5:46?

[@novriltataki]

sakura sfex3

[@ReijiArisu1211]

Best Sakura theme ever.

[@federicocarlucci7973]

the problem with playing to win in many FGs like GG or BB is that they are somehow nieche and the online crowd is made of veterans that just stomp you. You "can't" realistically play to win :( and thus you squeeze fun out of other aspects of the game, like single Player mode or just training with the dream of being stronger in mind probably the "play to win" mentality applies much better if you have an offline community, but basically nobody in my area plays these games offline and my friends aren't interested to jump in This means having nobody near my level to enjoy the "play to win" while improving still, great content as always

[@novriltataki]

Having access to veterans that stomp you is a GOOD THING. It means that in your environment is one that allows you to get to their level if not more. You can try replacing your approach from "it's impossible" to "It's possible but I don't understand how to do it *yet*" which I think is more accurate, and wait for episode 3.

[@FrostyBolty]

Except by playing Single Player mode, you are playing to win vs the Single player game

[@federicocarlucci7973]

novriltataki I agree. I'd just like to be able to actually talk to people who defeat me to get a better insight on my mistakes (and forge new friendships! :D) Online the only way I know is Discord, but that's still somehow clunky

[@novriltataki]

Less randoms and more organized sessions then.

[@reibin4085]

Yeah, I thought the same thing while watching the video. If you don't have an offline community you're at the mercy of the online players and the skill level is could be very high in small community. Improving on your own could be very difficult and daunting, and many could not even notice any progress in any way. But I do think that playing at your own pace and with your own objectives is the best way to enjoy competitive multiplayer games.

[@sinistermephisto65]

I disagree 100%. There are mechanical limitations that simply make it impossible to categorize all types of playing as the same. You cant play to win if you have shit execution. This is a fact. You cant play to win if you cant learn match ups

[@ReijiArisu1211]

If you don't play to win that means you don't try to win at all. If your goal is to win, you play to win.

[@mikaelamonsterland]

You're still trying to win the game even at the most basic button mashing level. Even if you have no idea about any part of the game you aren't actively trying to lose.

[@tanyaharmon6739]

When getting into fighting games, don't have this mindset

[@sinistermephisto65]

@@tanyaharmon6739 I guess I meant you won't succeed. You can probably tell I gave up games in general but fighting games I quit since 2012. I simply wasn't improving and the only game I was marginally good at is so dead VF

[@tanyaharmon6739]

@@sinistermephisto65 thx for clarifying, and maybe you can try some other fighting games that have good training tools. Like skullgirls helps the online is god like.

[@Einherj3r]

That Equilibrium opening gets you an automatic thumbs up!

[@andymrb]

Making compromises. This reminds me of the days I only had access to Tekken 3 at home, when I was competiting in T6. I couldn't practice my combo execution or gather experience as often as I preferred, because the local arcades/competition were several hours away from my home. But I could improve the more fundamental skills, like reactions(throw breaks, block punish etc). This video also reminds me of whatever tiny gradual improvements I make in life, I should be happy about them and continue to aim for improvements.

[@epikuattaku6796]

looks like you play some true anime games. besides ggxrd, which everyone knows, melty blood and arcana heart 3 love max. video gets a like regardless just because of that

[@TrollOmnipotence]

I cannot play FG anymore. I cannot grasp why they feel disgusting to me ever since SF IV. Only post 2k9 game that has ever felt good to play to me, was KOF 13. I could play that game for hours non stop. The rest feel shallow. Slow. I cannot grasp what they are missing tbh.

[@yyyyyyxxyyyyy]

Although i subscribed and watched your videos for a long time, this is my first comment. Really amazing content you produce, short and clear to the point,

[@ShigityShank06]

Holy Crap! Was that a rabite?

[@hypersoulgamer]

Gold.

[@troper5762]

"Playing Competitively" and "Playing casually" are one and the same? Can you please explain? Becuase to me, that doesn't make any sense. And one's having more fun when pushing himself harder? Sorry but I don't get it.

[@novriltataki]

IDK man I thought the video explained it pretty clearly...

[@troper5762]

2:11 "Which one is inherently harder to accomplish? Trying to win. Which one os more fun? Trying to win." Not necessarily. Personally I find more fun to just fool around without actually having the intention to win. And I think, playing competitively is go to the big tournaments, where pressure is crishing and you have to give your best. And playing casually is a more relaxing experience, whrer you don't actually have to give your best, and can fool around with your friends. Competitive gaming can sometimes be frustrating, and frustration is not fun. I guess that's why your explanation confuses me.

[@MoldMonkey93]

@@troper5762 The problem with this video is that it doesn't take into account the types of players that play and understand these games. It's too beginner friendly in mind.

[@GilbertTang]

I like your intro. It's just after the second hour I regret not skipping it from the start.

[@BankAlexander]

Ok I legit thought this was going to be about someone always gambling and making reads in a match. Nice video!

[@droy900]

Great vid man .

[@lancergt1000]

2:23 Tell that to Hearthstone players

[@workernetZX]

My question (that I think it doesn''t have an answer) is how to deal if you are feeling actual regress. The feeling of actually playing worse even dat not bein enough to kill my love for fg's it drains the fun out of it.

[@novriltataki]

It may be more productive to address this after EFG03.

[@workernetZX]

Anyway i'm looking forward to efg03, great video man.