What is Liner Protrusion? What are Counterbores and how do you cut them? Part 1.

[@robclayson3193]

Great video. I have worked at Cat Dealer for 25years & Been rebuilding 3406B,C,E C-15, C18,3412E,C27/32. Love 3400serirs engines. Looks like I've been doing everything the same. Keep up the great work.

[@AdeptApe]

I'm glad people that are more experienced than me still watch my videos too.

[@robclayson3193]

@@AdeptApe well Narrated, great production. You guys have it a bit easier with the steering on LHS. That input shaft to steering box can be a right pain in the butt. I tend to run & hide on short nose Western Stars. Not sure if you've got any of them over your way. Cheers, keep on rebuilding 👌👍

[@wdobni]

outstanding .... i wish everybody's videos were as clear and businesslike

[@giggiddy]

+1 His clear, concise and relaxed style, makes him my favorite YT diesel guy.

[@taselescanlan2795]

Just started with CAT this year, your videos help a lot.

[@MarbenEscobar-Rivera]

How were you able to get a job there

[@taselescanlan2795]

@@MarbenEscobar-Rivera just apply at any Cat dealership. I was working for the power authority and ran into a dealership tech on a job for a hospital. He mentioned they were looking for someone, and after I helped him fix the generator, they hired me.

[@oldcatmech]

Very nicely done! Used powered one and hand one for 47 years at a Cat dealer! Spent18 of those years doing field jobs just like this! Enjoyed the video, keep doing them!

[@traviscallaway9675]

Gotta say Josh, probably the one and only video that explains the setup for cutting counterbores on a 3400 series. I just learned the hard way how to do it last week. Couldn't get anyone to cut them, so we ordered a Monaco tool. I won't get into the "how far too cut them" discussion, but other than the slop in the adjusting nuts, you are spot on on the setup. Also have to say I thought to use the ear plugs for gallery plugs. Might recommend, masking tape to cover the oil drain back holes...

[@larrytalley117]

Wonderful content that helps the Cat community keep those terrific engines running.

[@AdeptApe]

Thank you Larry for watching my videos.

[@larrytalley117]

@@AdeptApe love ya man. Hope you and the fam are doing well, and looking forward to spring.

[@carsons6519]

I'm getting ready to do one of my 2ws engines. Haven't cut a hole in 2 years but I do my own work so this was a nice refresher for the memory before I start.

[@peteengard9966]

The shop I worked in had the Kent Moore setup. Great for Cat, Cummins and Detroit. With add ons it also did the lower press fit Cummins and the bottom of the Cat blocks from erosion. Those inserts were pricey!!!! I always did 2-4-6 then 1-3-5.. A sanding block and 14 inch mill file for cleaning and de- burring. The Cummins used an insert. On most of the 855 blocks your actually cutting the insert next to each other. The Kent Moore tool was powered by a right angle driver.

[@cjtroutt8092]

That Monaco counter boring tool is the best I had mine for 6 years and use the heck out of it.

[@aerialrescuesolutions3277]

Awesome work Josh. All your videos are well narrated and concise, I'll probably never work on this type of engine, however, as a mechanic I greatly learn and enjoy all your videos. Thank you. Jim.

[@BigWarningSign]

Thank you for providing this content. It beats my math class

[@bretyoung1869]

That's amazing, you really do great work !!!

[@captainchrysler468]

Excellent video, I would say basically anyone who's truck/engine you work on can breathe a sigh of relief, it'll be right. Nice work!! Can only imagine the stories them .200" shims could tell...

[@captainchrysler468]

Forgot to say give Buddy and Piper a pet from Iowa!!!

[@johngoldsmith6629]

When Jacobs Brake first came out on 92U engines, now called A models. The used their own head bolt. It was longer as it was needed for the Jake stand thickness. The bolt broke the compression gases cut the bottom of the head, the liner, spacer plate was cut clean through and into the bolt hole of the failure. It was a V shape larger at the top. I cut down 0.300 and did not clean it all up. I put a cast iron shim in. Cut 0.100 off it, placed another cast iron shim on it and cut it flush with the block. Lastly I cut a stainless steel shim and put on top of it.

[@henryl1507]

Man ive learnt alot from your video's, and i use that knowledge in my trade. Im very grateful you share this and go into alot of depth in procedures and what tooling you use. Your easy to understand and clear. Thank you @Adept Ape!

[@AdeptApe]

Thank you for the kind words.

[@jefferylara7679]

Can hear the baby having its own good time in the baclground :)

[@2dog1]

Thanks 👍 I have an old deuce and a half Hercules multi fuel engine that blew a head gasket between the 1-2 cylinders so now I know what to look for

[@bigred1247]

I'd solved this liner issue with a specially redesigned liner with a special chamfered sleeve with a special square seal at the top and illuminating a lower one.weve used these in bull haulers engines big stupid power 90 ,000lbs to the mat..no issues with any or the mining pistons they created with fusion welding..if only cat would listen to us they did..and now they have a redesigned water pump works great.all I have is cats,my dad had cats,my grampa had cats,my great great gramps had oxen😂🤣😁😁

[@vitaliykostenko2567]

You are the best like always

[@cullenmiller8170]

Slow and steady wins the race when doing that for sure. People don't realize how much time is spent cleaning and measuring and taking notes when doing it properly.

[@giggiddy]

Nice! 2 parts and nice length!!!!

[@firechaser21]

I learn a lot from this video

[@AdeptApe]

I'm glad to hear that.

[@paulchoiniere7322]

Been at a cat dealership most of my 30 years. This is exactly how I was taught. One thing I added was a suicide knob to the handle.

[@sankar7055]

Great video Man, good to know the new thing I never dine this before. Thanks

[@pulsenpal7882]

straight edge and feeler gage probing footage in this nicely done video documents deck flatness outside of bore planes--i.e.--lateral block margin--some authoritative sources also perform mid axial and diagonal gaging of deck looking for "torsades de plan"--twisting of block--a condition much more commonly found in warped cylinder heads

[@tomnorthcutt4754]

I learn so much from these videos! Thank you

[@edwardmalinowski2301]

Josh - I have a question - when you are setting your depth of cut on the tool do you have to account for the depth that the liner has sunk? In the one example the liner measured -.005 on the initial measurements......does this mean you would set the depth of cut to .024 instead of .029 on that particular cylinder if using the .030 shims on all six cylinders?? Thanks dude!

[@localcrew]

That cutter seems like a nice tool for squared-away results. I wonder if they make one with a low-speed powered drive like a pipe threader has. That would be cool.

[@AdeptApe]

There is an offset drive cutter, you can get it through the Cat dealer tool catalog, I'm not sure who the manufacturer is, but it is faster. Price wise I'm not sure how much, but I'm sure it's a lot.

[@davidoneal6969]

Kent tool makes the cat one. It's quick and precise as long as it's in good working order. If it hasn't been taken care of, it will cut crooked and will make the cutter head chatter on the surface (making you cuss and cutting the bore by hand in most cases).

[@cam0perry]

Kent Moore porta tool 2100 is the tool you want. We drive ours with a low speed drill.

[@davidlampe4153]

Fascinating video thank you!

[@bigred1247]

I know your a cat guy so am I Josh.. but IPD solved this liner issue on cats by redesigning a better liner with a special square top seal and now have another option available thats even better.and trust me 75 cattle haulers here running them along with the better aftermarket head have had zero issues..

[@bigred1247]

Excellent

[@littletreesdiy4222]

Awesome information. Thanks for sharing 👍

[@that1guyyouknow1]

It seems crazy to me that you guys get this level of work, now granted our work is to turn around as many 3500s as possible for all the different FRAC companies we serve. If it needs any machine work they send the blocks off. For a bit they were even sending every 3300 out and letting the machine shops tell us if they needed any work.

[@Pete-ls5vi]

Do you do anything to bottom ridge when counter boring. Great job on your video

[@erikschutzman2402]

Very precise work

[@randygonzalez6250]

03:03 Wow that's a narrow area for the liner to sit! If the liner had more area to sit on do you think it'd wear less or not at all? Are cylinder blocks deliberately designed with extra thickness on top to accommodate resurfacing (re-leveling)? I have so many questions lol.

[@melias67]

Another good video once again. Crazy how many technicians I know who use die grinders to prep block decks….

[@AdeptApe]

I used to use them because that was what the more experienced guys used when I was learning. Definitely not the best way though.

[@ciaranbrennan16]

Great video, very interesting

[@CanadianCharlie64]

Very informative video, you really know your stuff

[@johnnygagnon4968]

What is your tolerence with the staigh edge for knowing if its surface is ok

[@eddygoodwin7089]

There’s a new channel I just came across called Jim’s automotive and machine shop. He’s working on an Allis Chalmers tractor that he just rebuilt. It launched the oil fill plug across the field and had coolant under the valve cover. Seemed like a liner issue to me but there is no talk of it in the comment section and and no mention on the videos and they installed the liners by hand with no tool to set them in straight. What’s your thoughts?

[@lmtsmt847]

Great work

[@josephpuchel6497]

Hey Great video tutorial. Who sets cutting width , is there a chart or work sheet ? Thank you

[@lesmiller1739]

On the machine we used cutting width was set by moving the cutting blade in or out. That was measured with a micrometer that came with the tool. Our tool would cut counterbores or holes for salvage sleeves. Cummins used to be well known for cracked counterbores.

[@badgerpa9]

Nice video.

[@Turbo400Jr.]

Thank you

[@kingjames7273]

Ipd has solved cats sunk liner issues with a redesigned slefve with a speacial square chamfered o ring

[@michaeldunagan8268]

Just read a Cummins ISX forum the other day discussing dropped liners and how a "counter bore" must be cut. I said: "What the hell is a counter bore..??!!" Now, after watching this video, I know.

[@jackmeoff2274]

Thats because screwtube is owned by google and they listen in on your speaker all the time. Thats why it got recommended.

[@edwinfuchs3887]

Just can’t help but notice that water pump inlet hose just open this whole time while you were working on the engine, I’m just usually careful about getting any kind of dirt into there without noticing, but awesome job showing details of this process

[@AdeptApe]

That item will be getting removed, cleaned, water pump replaced and everything cleaned, so really no reason to waste the tape.

[@edwinfuchs3887]

Thank you for that clarification:)

[@noonesocial3837]

Fascinating

[@johngoldsmith6629]

I have never use that style of tool. Our tool you use a electric drill and takes about thirty seconds to cut the hole once set up. I put two plugs in the block, one at the lower deck and one at the top. Since a drill is used on our type of machine the metal expels out. So I use masking tape and tape the top deck closed to prevent any metal from getting into other cylinders. When I set my depth, I measure all of my shims and use the thinnest one. They are not always the same and I place my shims in order from thinnest to thickest unless my depth is not the same on all cylinders. I place my shim in the tool and measure the gap between the bit and the block. I locate the best place to make this reading. Naturally you don't want to use a low spot to do this. If a spot is not available, I slide my bit out and get a section where the flange is not setting on. The pitted side of the liner, the exhaust side in this case. Is called the high load side. Most of your problems will be on that side, cavitation erosion, piston slap, driving the liner into the lower deck wearing it out. Basically the liner receives the shock load and vibration resonates from that side.

[@AdeptApe]

I do measure my shims, although not a lot of variance it seems I'll try to use the thickest shim in the deepest hole and etc. If a shim measures a bit thinner or thicker than normal I'll keep it and substitute one that measures normal I have in my box. Using the shim as the feeler gauge for the cutter is actually a pretty good idea, I never thought of that before. I have noticed the liner seal area is usually the worst on the exhaust side, didn't know it was because of higher loading though, makes sense since you'd have more cylinder movement there. As always, your 800 years of experience has led to some insightful information.

[@johngoldsmith6629]

@@AdeptApe Just because I handed Rudolf Diesel his pencil when he asked for it, don't have to rub it in.

[@JesseBrunner]

Have a link to the pneumatic vacuum you like to use?

[@elmamalon7797]

What happens if you put shims with part numbers facing down? Tech who shimmed my block said to install leters facing down? Thanks alot!

[@RJ-or8bw]

I could have sworn I saw a video like this before

[@jimwood5796]

A lot of the mystery of liner protrusion has been answered

[@jesserasso1042]

Nice job very good video

[@mbowen007]

That was awesome like all your vids. Question - why do you have to cut the counterbores in the first place......just curious

[@AdeptApe]

I'll describe this in more detail in the second video, but the liner wears into the deck and and "sinks" which causes the head gasket to lose clamping force and then it starts pushing combustion gases into the cooling system.

[@EduardoSilva-xe3gp]

" Particularly C15" ISX " hold my beer😅"

[@RichardJW1]

very interesting!

[@davidwalle5025]

good job.

[@glenquagmire4232]

Is your headlamp a Nitecore brand?😁

[@mohammadalissa8255]

very nice great and smart man

[@bigbellyrebuilds2778]

I hope I don't have to do that anytime soon thanks for sharing...

[@bigcheese370]

You heard of ZK Mastertech? Would be interesting if you go the same route with video style or something. You both show what goes on in your careers, but you may not want to go that far into it like zk does.

[@shadowbot1234]

So using the feeler gauge to set the spacing between the two stops, is the space your closing up by moving the bottom stop up one click. Then when you’ve done it 29 times, both stops should be touching and you can’t move anymore clicks right?

[@AdeptApe]

That is correct!

[@limoshbs]

great video...

[@brittenthomas2971]

what if the spacer is installed upside down?

[@Ripsaw17]

I use a die grinder to get off the heavy-duty stuff with a very light cookie disc then I go on the doing my scraping and sanding at no point do I ever cut into the deck with a cookie you're asking for problems with the new gasket it'll never seal-rite or if it does it's not going to last very long if there's not a lot of gasket material stuck to the head sometimes I just use a simple wire wheel to break down all the heavy stuff and then again do my scraping and sanding

[@AdeptApe]

I wish more people would do it the same way you're doing it.

[@JOMaMa..]

Awesome !

[@robertgarrett5009]

Was wondering why sleeves needed shims, now I know.

[@mvand11]

What’s the labor time for a job like this? Complete Inframe.

[@user-ln7of9gs4s]

What caused the liners to sink?

[@Holtyify]

Hey mate , what size brake booster diaphragm do you use??

[@bigred1247]

5"

[@traviscallaway9675]

Don't turn backwards, can break, chip, and does dull the carbide bit.

[@teet468]

I have a completely unrelated question to this video and I was wondering if you could please help? I am a heavy diesel apprentice and I've asked all my trainers aswell as my supervisor and no one knows the answer. I've also searched Google relentlessly but still come up empty handed. #pleasehelp

[@jeffreylewis145]

What happened to alien technology carbide edge tool?

[@AdeptApe]

I used it on the final scraping actually, I just the wood chisel the first 2 passes, then finish with that one.

[@onlythelonely1644]

What causes a liner to drop?

[@johngoldsmith6629]

Number of items. A flanged top mount liner, expands as the piston fires. So the liner swells up and contracts. This movement erodes the liner and the top surface of the block. Increased HP, bigger fire, incorrect assembly are the biggest factors.

[@chevy36ful]

The only people that use this tool are truck mechanics, to do the job correctly pull the engine out do upper and lowers and water ferrals then the engine will do another life any thing else is a short term repair. We do 100s of blocks a year.

[@biglovesam]

Anyone have a good price on shims for the 3406b ? I need six .034" 6i4362 and six .061" 6i4363

[@davidstradling1198]

Block parts xpress out of chilliwack bc

[@asherdie]

Use thread chaser not a tap to clean threads

[@acert625vortex7]

💯👍

[@cessiesrabbit]

Why do the protrusion specs change to .0035 after the shims are added?

[@AdeptApe]

Cat changed their guidelines a few years ago. It used to be .001-.006 either way, but then that split it to .0035-.006 with shims. Why they changed it is a good question though, maybe they found the shims at .001 don't hold good enough clamping force on the fire ring, but that is just a guess.

[@cessiesrabbit]

@@AdeptApe Would I be okay at 2.5 to 6 in your opinion?

[@ianatkinson8464]

😎👍

[@robertoudokrapf453]

OLÁ Adept 02/08/24 Vossa forma forma de conferir a planicidade deixa muito a desejar. Aumentei a imagem de vosso vídeo e foi possível identificar VISUALMENTE grave erro de retífica, mesmo sendo de fábrica. É muito difícil encontrar uma planicidade perfeita e mais ainda, alguém que saiba usar corretamente uma "régua de precisão". Roberto Udo Krapf

[@andrewhatton1606]

I would just go ahead and get a rebuild

[@AbcXyz-rn2lz]

Counter bore... Why everyone doesn't have a 3406b in their classics.. Super expensive and time consuming...

[@garybucher6824]

I just looked up that cuter $2300 seems a little pricey when you only have and plan on having one truck. Lol

[@garybucher6824]

My truck has been pushing a gallon or 2 of coolant out of the overflow a year, for several years now. I'm assuming it's the head gasket . What's the odds i would need this tool?

[@AdeptApe]

Well Gary you probably do need to cut the counterbores, but if you only plan on using it once you might want to contact a Cat dealership to see how much it would cost to have them cut them instead. If you do all the prep work yourself they can be cut in less than a day so you would spend less than half the cost of the tool. If you plan on using the tool twice it basically pays for itself.

[@garybucher6824]

@@AdeptApe that's what i was thinking too, i appreciate your response and everything i have learned from you about Cat engines! I hope you have a good day!

[@bigred1247]

​@@AdeptApefind himself a moonlighting engine guy to cut them..awsome video Josh slow and methodical is always best snd those 5"brake diaphragms sbsolute genius. 👍 👌 👍

[@para55a2]

All this to change a fuse? Just kidding!, the guys in Pakistan would have just rolled it in the dirt and hit it with a rock. Slap back together and send it out. Only to come back next week, but that's called "repeat business"... Josh, you guys fix it too good, no repeat business

[@AdeptApe]

Unfortunately, yes I hate that kind of repeat business. Pretty funny comment.

[@para55a2]

@@AdeptApe That because you guy don't accept goats as payment like the boys do in Pakistan. When will we ever learn? All kidding aside, I love you videos, I learn so much (more than I can handle at times!) keep up the great work Josh!!

[@GaryBoyd02]

Liner protrusion isn't that when the engine get too many little blue pills in the radiator?😎

[@shivanandlatchman1146]

Hi

[@timblack33]

I thought you hated air ratchets 😉

[@AdeptApe]

I do, but unfortunately it works perfectly for this particular applicant.

[@joseloera3519]

I emailed you boss

[@Saan455]

80$ each

[@frankjokel5263]

I always just buff the hell out of the spacer plate, problem solved

[@kc360awareness]

First!

[@AdeptApe]

You win

[@kc360awareness]

The very idea of feeling like a winner pushes me to be first. It’s a lifelong passion. Actually as a school bus fleet mechanic I enjoy your content. You’ve actually helped me quite a lot, thank you for putting up quality content and of course for validating me a a winner. 😉

[@rogeryoung2049]

If they installed the shims at the factory then you would be out of a job. Too bad the liners sink all the time and blow those head gaskets. it could be fixed but that would cost more money.

[@bigred1247]

Nope check out IPD solves caterpillar issue with newly designed crevice seal and liner..

[@angelmunoz3462]

No mechanics work like these anymore, my cat dealer destroy my engine in Michigan , they are not real mechanics

[@6Diego1Diego9]

where do you see yourself in five years?

[@joe72205]

If you’re receiving gifts in exchange for product placement, you need to clearly disclose it. The FTC has been cracking down on undisclosed sponsorships.

[@AdeptApe]

I mentioned they sent me the liner protrusion gauge in the video. We already had the counterbore cutter. It's not a product placement, it's just the tool you use during the procedure.

[@captainchrysler468]

Oh boy karen has arrived... Go watch scotty kilmer or something