Adjusting Ride Height and Adding Spacers to My 718 GT4

[@iamtheleuz]

Thank you for using millimeters so we can all understand your measurements. Enough with those fractions 😃

[@Deagles456]

The way you guys shoot this makes me feel like a foodnetwork or other live TV series. Really cool. Keep it up OG bros.

[@ObsessedGarage]

Thanks man.

[@1ls376]

12:31 " just a little dab". An obscure reference to the painter Bob Ross.

[@JustinKraft]

Having zero preload could lead to the spring becoming loose while driving if you crest a hill at speed, could lead to damaging the collar or spring. Side note changing preload also changes the amount of travel you have in either direction droop/compression due to the piston in shock changing static position. Scrub radius is the thing to keep in mind when using spacers or changing offsets, street driving I would say not really an issue may notice different feeling in steering wheel but probably not

[@DriftaholiC]

If you want to do it right, and I have a sneaking suspicion you do. Extend the lower control arm with a camber shim and then remove the added camber at the top adjustment. This gives you a wider track without the negatives spacers add like jacking and scrub radius.

[@gallardogarage2936]

Just lowered my 06 C2S with eibach 1.2 inch lowering spring, man it was great and the rake is nice, now i need spacers too, thanks Mat

[@afhyoutube]

Lighting looks great in this video from some reason.

[@Oldschool503]

I'm so glad this channel exist!

[@timkinley1779]

Is the driver's side factory height higher to offset the weight of a driver?

[@-Brandon_]

That actually makes sense...

[@Barefootdan]

and probably the additional weight of driver side fittings (Steering column, brake booster, etc.)

[@ashjns]

Usually the case with a correctly dialed suspension set-up!

[@liamcosgrave5410]

That's why you see guys adding weight to the drivers seat when corner weighting.

[@Flip01]

No wonder your arms are so big Matt. How many times have you removed these wheels since owning this car? Ride height is looking good.🔥👍

[@GoofysBandit]

The production and editing value in these simple install videos is bonkers. Thanks Matt

[@Deagles456]

Agreed!

[@mperformance3502]

Doesn’t 7mm reduce the hub contact to the wheel by a lot? Reason I go 10mm spacers with built in hub lip. Or 5mm at most to retain some of the factory hub lip

[@plorwax]

Bang on. 7mm is an awkward size. Either you go small like 3 or 5mm or all out with 10mm or bigger with a built in hub.

[@wde4657]

Looks to be plenty of lip remaining with the spacers on. The hub doesn't hold the wheel forces. It just centers the wheel so there is no strength concern. The forces are held by the friction between the wheel and rotor face and now in this case, rotor face on spacer and spacer on wheel.

[@mperformance3502]

False, the hub does more than just center the wheel. You don’t want just the wheel bolts holding things in.

[@wde4657]

​@@mperformance3502 The bolts provide the clamp force that keeps the joint together. There is enough preload in the joint to prevent any movement from lateral forces. There is also enough friction caused by this preload to keep faces of the hub, rotor, and wheel from moving relative to each other. This is one of several reasons torquing your lug nuts or bolts properly is important: getting the correct joint preload/clamp force. Your average M12 or 1/2" lug nut or bolt joint has about 10,000 pounds of clamp force PER NUT/BOLT. So you're looking at 40-50,000 lbs of force that must be overcome before the joint can even move. The hub doesn't actively support the wheel. It just centers it for mounting.

[@mperformance3502]

Try installing 20mm wheel spacers with no built in hub, let me know how that works out. Not knocking you, but I’ve ran over a hundred set of spacers since mid 2000’s. More than likely you’ll have some form of highway vibrations from non hubcentric wheel spacers without built-in hub. Here’s a nice read as well. www.machinedesign.com/fastening-joining/article/21832042/whats-the-difference-between-lugcentric-and-hubcentric-wheels

[@ScottPC]

Get a couple of wheel lug guides to help you take off the wheels without chipping the callipers or wheels... if it’s anything like the rest of the VAG group it’ll have some in the boot.

[@gusgus1562]

WTF??? You have every thing else but no guides to save those PCCBs when removing the wheels!

[@vongdong10]

He's got them for the center locks. Would they just be like longer bolts for normal wheel setup?

[@gusgus1562]

@@vongdong10 Yes, they are like a long wheel stud. Basically a approx 6 inch threaded rod that screws into one of the wheel nut holes and then the wheel just slides off that rod while keeping it from falling down onto to the fragile, expensive PCCB rotors.

[@ObsessedGarage]

I got this car recently. I have guides for BMW wheels, but none fit this car. Plus I'm not a little girl. I can lift the wheel off rather easily.

[@gusgus1562]

@@ObsessedGarage Well the real problem is if you should accidentally let the wheel slip when removing or installing and then bumping that rotor. Kinda like if you have the wheel lug nuts out of reach when your installing the wheel and you try to reach for the wheel lug nut while balancing the wheel on the hub. Especially tricky if your using wheel spacers that reduce the amount of hub to hold the wheel. Anyway, do what you want. It was just a suggestion. Good luck with the GT-4. Great car!

[@Nick-ss8ey]

@@gusgus1562 i think he is more than aware considering his obsession in chasing perfection, if he bumped the brakes im willing to bet he'd sell the car or torch it. there light wheels, being lifted off from a comfortable height with a guy who is more than able to lift that weight bro

[@graypaschal4769]

I enjoyed this experimentation to get what you want out of it. I was thinking 7mm wasn’t going to be enough, but didn’t get see a good shot of the track width. The negative comments strike me as haters/posers that think they know better what you want than you do.

[@jonathandilin5301]

This is our generations 911! Affordable, great looks, NA, wow! Congrats.

[@wessmith6558]

Bought the future classic spacers. 7mm for front and 15mm for rear. Have run 15mm on 981 since 2016. They are hub centric, the the 15mm have a hub centric lip. I will let you know how they do on the 718. Super excited about the FC spacers.

[@xkc9689]

Suspension geometry is crying in the background, but it’s your Porsche and you should enjoy it. For street driving, it doesn’t really matter much once you get an alignment it’s all good. Just careful about rubbing if you put luggage and a passenger in

[@joetee9135]

Yeah changing the geometry is what’s stopped me using spacers in the past. It’s not worth fudging the suspension and knock-on effects from that imo. Though obviously it looks better!

[@patrickbyr]

That Gentian blue looks stunning! You don’t see enough blue Porsche.

[@Perfection645]

I’ve always wanted to lower my ‘16 GT4 but I live in an area with MASSIVE speed bumps and horrible drive way curbs and I barley don’t scrape. Wish we could make speed bumps illegal....

[@soundgarden8885]

Widening and lowering a porsche of this caliber. Oh boy, this man has some serious first world problems.... I wish i had em. Dayum

[@tcolley]

But you watched it

[@Dutch79]

Stance is important :)

[@blraider9724]

Was going to do front spacers on mine but the paint on the rocker behind the front wheel is already getting chewed up. Didn’t want to risk the sticky Cup 2s throwing up crap on the outer edge of the rocker, fender, door or side air intake (which also take a beating). Decided to do PPF after 1000 miles but i still won’t be adding spacers due the same concern, even with the PPF. The Gentian Blue seems to magnify even small paint chips.

[@MWS1960]

You need to take into consideration the height when you sit in the car and how that effect things, I think the first adjustment looked pretty good.

[@kyleegti88]

What size spanner wrenches or where to buy them?

[@BrockDM1]

I've had good luck with spacers as well. You should look into getting a set of wheel hanger guides. Basically 2 long posts that screw into the lug hole and lets you guide the wheel on and holds it in place. Super handy for cars with lug bolts and not studs

[@mchong91]

Agreed

[@moneyparhar]

I did 15mm spacers all around my 997 c2 running 295 in back and 235 in front. Spacers by ECS tuning and came with long Philip head screw just like factory porsche.

[@gbass7328]

Agree about hub lip....Yes this is his car. Fun stuff! Need to drive it before measuring. Also, I measure from the lower rim edge to the fender. Takes away tread and inflation differences. Metal to metal. Frame to floor is best but way harder.

[@mattyp3119]

If you lose all preload on the springs, the only risk is like with any other suspension: if you come off the ground that the spring might shift around as much as it can not being consistently pressed in. So unless you're a group b rally driver or you plan on taking it to a track where elevation changes are sudden and extreme enough to lift your car, there wouldn't be any issue.

[@Miguel-Migs]

What were your final numbers front and rear suspension settings in mm? I can’t make out your diagram at the end even with a 65” TV 😂

[@ObsessedGarage]

Shoot, this was a while ago. I'm not sure.

[@MKUMBRA]

You mentioned no negatives about good spacers, but I'm genuinely curious on what their upside is? Why did you put them on?

[@ObsessedGarage]

Seems pretty simple to me. Makes the car look much better.

[@MKUMBRA]

@@ObsessedGarage I gathered that from finishing the video :) Thanks for the reply. I wasn't sure if there was a performance benefit along with the aesthetic benefit.

[@sgreer78]

Changing ride height changes toe.

[@Patrick94GSR]

Which is why an alignment is needed.

[@JustinKraft]

And camber

[@NALOW84]

Thanks captain obvious. Heres another bit of obvious information- camber affects toe and toe affects camber. derp

[@brandondarnes3699]

I’ve always had good luck with spacers. I don’t see how they cause problems like some people talk about.

[@FredSHerr]

I need to adjust my GT4’s height. What size spammer wrenches do I need and where do I get them?

[@ObsessedGarage]

Pretty much any will work. I had some Ohlins ones laying around.

[@Mozeyzey]

I love all the daily CONTENT THanks MATT!!!!!!!!!

[@Patrick94GSR]

Yep, moving the collar height translates to more ride height change at the tire. It’s called the Motion Ratio of the suspension. However the difference is much less on a McPherson strut suspension design, than it is on a car with conventional double wishbones with the shock attached farther inboard from the hub’s ball joints.

[@ianlaishley1770]

Great video. My GT4 arrives next month. Love the Getian blue but mines Black with gold wheels as my Taycan is gentian blue and didnt want the same colour for both.

[@rubioalejo]

With that spacers you are altering the negative Scrub Radius( -10mm.) An advantage of a negative scrub radius is that the geometry naturally compensates for split braking, or failure in one of the brake circuits. It also provides center point steering in the event of a tire deflation, which provides greater stability and steering control in this emergency. Maximum spacers thickness allowed is 5mm

[@FrostyAMG]

LMAO. You literally just copied and pasted that from Google.

[@rubioalejo]

@@FrostyAMG Google is not the only source to get knowledge . I’ve been trying by my self on street and on the track with several options of wheel spacers to find out the best combination of performance and look. if you learn the basics of scrub radius you will understand! My advise is based on personal experience. If you want to push out the front wheels on Porsche cars with engine in the back and rear wheel drive more than 5mm with spacers, always it’s better to get a wider set of wheels, maintaining the appropriate ET . There are a lot of discussions on the Rennlist’s forum. Here is one of my threads #46 rennlist.com/forums/991/995241-spacers-on-narrow-body-with-20-carrera-s-wheels-4.html

[@kh155]

You should have this car corner balanced, it's the only way to truly adjust a pre-load style coilover properly. By adjusting the preload on the front to lower the car you just unsettled the rear of the car, corner balancing will square everything up with your new intended ride height.

[@ObsessedGarage]

I've always read and heard that and have always made the alignment guys pull out the scales, and yet have never needed to do anything on any of my cars. With modern sports cars it takes a whole lot to mess up the crossweights.

[@Andreas_lysandrou07]

What was your final measurements? Originally it was 10mm down front and rear. Did you drop it to 15mm with the final look?

[@lorenzogobbi9872]

hello, im looking for buy one, but in my country there are a lot of speedbumpers... from factory settings, is possible increase the height from the ground? by this adjustable coilovers?

[@joetacchino4470]

To anyone saying spacers are stupid and Porsche engineers know better, my C2S had Porsche spacers. As a factory option. And they were listed on my build sheet. Also, the car comes delivered with a height adjustable suspension for a reason.

[@gallardo20000]

matt is a true little honda bro, he even has 2006-2008 civic si style wheels on his porsche

[@tenebb]

does GT4 / 718 SPYDERGT4 COMES WITH THAT OEM ADJUSTABLE SPRINGS?

[@ObsessedGarage]

Yes, they do.

[@iain3915]

Just to get you thinking about it, how about a shorter final drive?

[@ObsessedGarage]

Nope

[@ruberube2855]

Hey brother you have any pics of the car lowerd? Thinking about lowering mine. Luv the channel 🤙🏻

[@Patrick94GSR]

It’s too bad that hub isn’t coated with anything from the factory to keep them from rusting like that.

[@zaceryhammond1144]

Surprising since the whole body is galvanized then painted to prevent rusting but I guess it’s a casting 💁‍♂️

[@zaceryhammond1144]

Surprising since the whole body is galvanized then painted to prevent rusting but I guess it’s a casting 💁‍♂️

[@deweberis2709]

33:40 those calcs are Janky, should have done a Solid Works project 🤔 🤨

[@lukek9694]

I see you have Koch Chemie products on top of your cabinets. Green star and GSF are good. If you've not already tried it I would. Highly recommended Wax Planet 8 Below snow foam. It's one of the best I've tried so far.

[@danielho1190]

Looks good! Definitely go with a 10mm - 12mm spacer in the front.

[@dholland911]

You have to watch the lowering as it will have an effect on shock travel. Also, you'll want to make sure that you zero the ride height out with your PASM computer when lowering the car.

[@goldenchild7360]

What happened to the Sonic ride height calcs sheet tool?

[@wessmith6558]

Can you provide me the part number and source of the coil over spanner wrench please.

[@romstermonstermotorsport5206]

What’s with the rust?

[@makosasimakis118]

I guess it is just on the surface , caused by water staying there

[@ashjns]

Its exposed metal and like regular steel brake discs, will rust as soon as water is allowed to dry on it. Its no problem though!

[@mariodesmo]

One suggestion when looking at the car's profile to compare the height, I would have the car sitting on a flat surface with nothing under it. Having the lift under the car, may cause you to see the height of the car differently in relation of the ground.

[@Pearl3Drummer]

Damn Matt! Who does your nails? They look fab!

[@nickthilen6897]

Matt, did you end up having to re-align after lowering?

[@ObsessedGarage]

I didn't. Seems fine.

[@salsubaru]

what's the maximum height you can rise the car from stock settings ....?

[@ObsessedGarage]

Not sure, but it would be really high.

[@emadallie3721]

I like how you go sit in the corner and view the height lol

[@deweberis2709]

Have you seen the new GT4 RS ? It has a gooseneck style rear wing 🦆. Will you get one when its lauched ? Ops, forgot to post the link ☺️ kzbin.info/www/bejne/jn-3qax7ar6nqKM

[@ObsessedGarage]

I doubt it. I like this wing better.

[@scuph]

The only thing I hate about lowering is how the spacing around the tire from the wheel well arch is so uneven. I think it looked about perfect the first time you lowered it.

[@gloomyxyz]

This. The fender arch crested the tires so perfectly the first time it was lowered. Now it looks disproportionate and almost 'stance-bro'.

[@muckeyn]

@@gloomyxyz I think he’s at least a good inch away from being stance 😅. I think it looks perfect (the front) but aesthetically I do prefer less wheel gap over an even arch gap. Different strokes. I wouldn’t be surprised if Matt lowers the rear a bit Judging from his other cars.

[@Rexgf8]

I say go with bigger hub centric spacers. What's the point of running spacers if the wheels are not flush.

[@Malmoe4]

Just did my height adjusted OG spec haircut watching this. Debating if I should go 2mm lower.

[@deweberis2709]

I just can't believe Matt changed the anvil - it was orange - to a baby blue color just to make a composé with the OG blue 😂

[@richardmesser1091]

More ''improvements'' to a Porsche GT car

[@ObsessedGarage]

Don't be that guy.

[@DROIDRAZR16]

front is perfect but rear needs more low and yes get helper spring

[@ryanaboud3924]

Toe may be affected more than you think by lowering the car.

[@ObsessedGarage]

It's not. I've done it dozens of times and measured afterward.

[@ryanaboud3924]

@@ObsessedGarage cool. Good to know. I wasn’t sure, hence the word “may.” My experience is with Ohlins on a 991. Great content, by the way. Be well.

[@Yachtzeee]

Are you going to do an alignment?

[@seanm.collins9888]

I wonder if dark blue is Matt`s favorite color?

[@ObsessedGarage]

Regular blue is.

[@salangchoi02]

Hi mate. I am thinking of raising height since I am using my GT4 as daily. what height could be ideal in your opinion? Thanks in advance.

[@ObsessedGarage]

That doesn’t make much sense to me. I’ve never once scraped in this car.

[@MrCanadiandad]

No locktite on the spacer bolts to the hub??

[@ObsessedGarage]

Nah...I don't want them locked on. Those are just superficial to hold the rotor and spacer in place when the caliper is removed.

[@CarJunkie]

Lol... Where exactly will they go? I'd be more inclined to use anti-seize on them!

[@antonyv8171]

Don’t make it flush Matt, be happy how it is. Once u go flush and U get onto some bumpy roads, ur fenders will rub against your tires and start shaving off your rubber!

[@ObsessedGarage]

Not if done correctly

[@mattyp3119]

It has to come out too much to rub, on my 981 , I've got 10mm, not cambered, and have no rubbing ever and the car is lower than x73 by 10mm. Up to 10-12mm your good on these things with zero sacrifice.

[@antonyv8171]

@@ObsessedGarage dammit. I have a 2016 Golf R with a volkswagen racing 6 piston big brake kit with 355mm rotor, they come with a standard 7mm spacer to clear my standard sized 235/35/19 wheels. I ONLY get rubbing on my left hand side (in Australia my drivers side is the right hand side)..... I am running PS4S tires which are very square tires... but it’s annoying that I get rubbing on bumpy roads on my left hand side only, and there’s nothing to prevent it as it’s literally clearing my brakes by 1mm and the tire is poking the tiniest bit.. exact same set up tho on the right hand side and the tire is flush and doesn’t rub.. dunno what to do :( apparently ALL golf R/GTI’s have the exact same issue when u get a BBK, subframe is slightly to the left or something..

[@sandmangti7040]

If one should not adjust, why adjustable from factory? Matt no track so no issue.

[@WHY.A.H.WHY.A]

Get some wheel hangers Matt. Or convert to Studs & Nuts

[@895takashi]

Yeah that blue looks really good, tesla has a similar blue but tesla paint quality is questionable

[@agmd1]

Questionable is being generous

[@davidebonati4582]

Uguale alla mia blu genziana però wells gold 👍👍👍

[@pauleiler5648]

Get it right... then it should be corner balanced.

[@paulff3]

Matt, are you going to do the gear swap?

[@ObsessedGarage]

Definitely not.

[@paulff3]

@@ObsessedGarage warranty?

[@makosasimakis118]

Nice !!!

[@atlasrex]

10/16” same as 5/8”

[@gusgus1562]

What you just did to your GT-4 is really a piss poor way to F... up the suspension. Is it possible to obtain replacement springs that will lower the ride height but not result in a stiffer/harsh ride? I'm looking for 3/4 to 1 inch lower for cosmetic reasons only. The answer is no for any significant reduction in ride height, because it is not the springs that create the harshness on a lowered car it is the change in geometry. Specifically, it is the change in the angle of the trailing arm. Lowering the car reduces or eliminates the angle in the trailing arm reducing the moment (lever arm or vertical distance between the forward mount point and the mount point on the control arm) that operates the spring. Think of it like a motorcycle swing arm - there must be some angle in the arm for the suspension to work. if there is no angle (no vertical lever arm) the force vector from a bump (which comes in horizontally and not vertically like you might think) is transferred to the chassis and not the spring/damper. This is what creates harshness. It should also be noted that lowering the car increases the roll couple (roll force) by increasing the distance between the roll axis and the CG. This causes a lowered car to roll more, not less on the same springs. This is one reason why most lowering springs are stiffer than stock. Lowering the car too far also removes the dynamic camber gain while turning resulting in reduced traction and increase tire wear. In general it is not a good idea to lower a Porsche (or any strut-based suspension). Race cars get away with it for two reasons - the first, and main reason, is that they almost always use different suspension pickup points through different wheel carriers (i.e., the GT3, Cup, and GT4). The second is that they generally operate on smooth tracks and can run stiff springs to control the roll.

[@ObsessedGarage]

Why do you think this car comes equipped with a height adjustable suspension? Answer: to adjust the height.

[@gusgus1562]

@@ObsessedGarage That is not correct. The adjustable suspension is to do corner balancing and alignment when changing camber/caster and toe for track optimization and tire grip.

[@ObsessedGarage]

And what would you do to improve that? Lower it.

[@gusgus1562]

@@ObsessedGarage Depends!

[@reddden1]

Nice

[@tigerbiterhater]

Full send it. Slam it.

[@jspeedadventures]

Hope you don't ruin the car's handling just for looks.

[@mperformance3502]

By lowering a few mm? No. Also it’s a street car.

[@DarkTouch]

adjusting a car for looks. funny that. there are reasons to set the ride height. droop, bump, shock travel... typical aesthetic obsessiveness. why not just go full stance?

[@Doggepp]

10mm = 1/4 of an inch... Hmm not exactly

[@Dutch79]

Almost 1/2"

[@ObsessedGarage]

Doing 10/25.4 in my head while on camera is not as easy as you sitting there watching back with a calculator.

[@Doggepp]

@@ObsessedGarage Haha, im from Europe so no calculator needed. But yes, normally im just as confused by your mesaurements as you are with ours!

[@shannongovender1652]

Dunlop’s need to go

[@FrostyAMG]

Haha, I am sure you are well aware adding spacers to a new GT4 is going to trigger many people. Lol

[@mperformance3502]

Didn’t the 997 gt3 come from the factory with wheel spacers?

[@marktorcaso7631]

Corner balance your.

[@ObsessedGarage]

Waste of time

[@marktorcaso7631]

@@ObsessedGarage I guess if you just drive on the public roads you may be right. But I can tell you it’s day and night in my car.

[@mikerobertson9406]

10/16” 🤪

[@BarbWaltersMusic]

So many dislikes already, tough crowd

[@o.k.6640]

So Matt, try driving fast :-)

[@martinjulecki2728]

do you even drive the car? lol

[@mljhr6108]

Dude loves himself