Admiral Beresford and the 2nd Pacific Squadron - What if Britain had gone to war?

Today we take a look at just how close the Royal Navy came to engaging the Russian 2nd Pacific Squadron, and what the most likely outcome of that would have been.
Sources:
www.usni.org/m...
The History of the Russo-Japanese War - Sydney Tyler
The Tsar's Last Armada
MARITIME OPERATIONS IN THE RUSSO-JAPANESE WAR, 1904-1905 - Volume 2 - Sir Julian Corbett
Free naval photos and more - www.drachinifel.co.uk
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Music - / ncmepicmusic

[@Drachinifel]

Pinned post for Q&A :)

[@bkjeong4302]

Admiral Rozhestvensky and Admiral Togo switch navies. Would Rozhestvensky, now no longer held back by having to command the single most incompetent naval force in history and whip them into something resembling combat capability, do an even better job at Tsushima than Togo historically did?

[@QuizmasterLaw]

the most likely outcome, of course, is that Russia would suddenly have many of the newest style submarines

[@1967sluggy]

Would you ever do a video about armed trawlers?

[@waynesworldofsci-tech]

If war had happened would the RN have a ship named Kamchatka? Sorry, joke question. Serious question - if the channel had have been blockaded, do you think the 2nd Pacific Squadron could have made it north around the British Isles?

[@maggnus87]

Outside your usual scope but still want to ask, during the "cod wars" a British "frigate" rammed an Icelandic coastguard vessel, very nearly causing the Icelandic vessel to capsize. According to Icelandic sources the "frigate" limped back to Britain with a giant gash just above waterlevel. Do you know if that is true and what ship/class it was, since "frigate" encompasses more in Icelandic than in English.

[@aidanfarnan4683]

*Admiral Rodjestvensky seeing 20+ British battleships stating him down while he’s in port:* "Well, it's hopeless, so we may as well be interned and hope the British let us go in time to re-join the war." *HIRMS Kamchatka:* "So anyway, I started blasting..."

[@thegrandnope7143]

I reckon Rozhestvensky would have time to throw another set of binoculars and string of curses at Kamchatka, before it along with him and his fleet are turned into so much sinking scrap metal, by the rather large and rather bemused British force of at most 27 battleships.

[@myparceltape1169]

Admiral Rozjestvensky might have ordered his own guns to make the horor-ship disappear.

[@toawing]

@@myparceltape1169 with his force they'd probably hit the British by mistake

[@stevewhite3424]

@myparcel tape Sort of a self serving peace offering. 😄

[@kirgan1000]

@@thegrandnope7143 All ship target Kamchatka and open fire and continue to fire until that cursed ship is destroyed, then raise the white flag.

[@mazdrpan4099]

I would like to see a video on whether a Majestic class pre-dreadnought has sufficient armor to survive a direct hit from Rozhestvenskys binoculars being thrown at point blank range.

[@LeCharles07]

I don't think a Galaxy class heavy capital ship of the Federation could survive that, shields and all.

[@ricky6608]

I wonder if it could withstand being in the same formation as the Kamchatka

[@primigenius623]

😂😂😂😂

[@darthrevan4933]

@@ricky6608 no

[@fzyturtle]

no ship ever devised could survive being in a squadron with Kamchatka; in one fashion or another, Kamchatka would eventually do something to cause every other nation's warships to fire on the squadron.

[@bryant7201]

Kamatchka signals Royal Navy "Do you see torpedoes" in clear but poor signaling and language means RN assume torpedo attack is imminent, thus kicking off hostilities.

[@popuptarget7386]

Due to an error in translation, the message sent read: "Go stick your head in a pig". Naturally offense was taken.

[@mattwilliams3456]

I think the single salvo honor engagement would have occurred where the flagship unleashed a single broadside into the Kamchatka followed by surrender. My main question is whether Beresford would have treated Rozhestvensky with honor and allowed him to keep his binoculars.

[@lordmontymord8701]

Of course he would have - a Rozhestvensky without binoculars might choose some other method to release his rage. And nobody would risk that ...

[@claydougherty9996]

I ran this scenario at Millennium Con, a wargaming con in Texas. The Mediterranean squadron intercepted the 2nd Pacific squadron and, despite a few losses, sank every Borodino-class battleship, every cruiser, and most of the older battleships.

[@Emigdiosback]

In other words, Tsushima happens earlier, and in another part of the world

[@khaelamensha3624]

I do not remember, does it means the binoculars did not have to learn swimming? 😂

[@johnyarbrough502]

@@Emigdiosback Russia benefits from enormous savings on fuel bills. (And binoculars)

[@papajohnloki]

barring a battle fought at age of sail ranges it's very difficult to find a scenario that is favorable to the 2nd Pacific Squadron.

[@genebohannon8820]

I don't understand where people get all this time to have so much fun. My last vacations in 10 years were for funerals over 1500 miles away. Im not broke either.

[@nonvalidOT]

I recently told a manager at my work that he was the Kamchatka of the company. He asked what I meant, I told him it was a very very famous Russian warship that routinely did the impossible like it was nothing.

[@JMarch05]

I will be using this one

[@gasmonkey1000]

Kamchatka: "MORE TORPEDO BOATS!" Rozhestvenstky: *Turns to aide* "Where's my box of binoculars? I'm going to sink that damn ship-" *Explosion*

[@kirgan1000]

Zeiss: Yes let the hate flow.......

[@Colt45hatchback]

Or... 😅 decides this is all too much for one man, climbs into boiler 😂

[@bigblue6917]

The trawler was manned by trawlermen from Hull. There is a monument on Hessle Road in Hull to those who died on the trawler. Hessle Road was where most trawlermen came from.

[@jmantime]

I'm surprised no one has gone looking for the Wrecks of the battle of Tsushima, the only wrecks that have been located is the cruisers Dimitri Donskoi ( found in 2003 ) and Admiral Nakhimov ( found in 1980 ). All of the other ships are forgotten about , in fact most shipwrecks of the Russo-Japanese war have not been found, except 2 cruisers and the Gunboat " Korea ". Even the japanese ships are not yet found.

[@gasmonkey1000]

We must find Rozhestvensky's magical box of binoculars

[@itsmeyaboi1441]

We MUST find the Kamchatka

[@DutchBlackMantha]

@@itsmeyaboi1441 And make sure it's still there.

[@connormclernon26]

@@DutchBlackManthano, it’s for the best to leave that curse at the bottom of the ocean. Lest we accidentally unleash its full power upon us again

[@jmantime]

@@itsmeyaboi1441 i'd imagine Kamchatka's wreck has probably collapsed to the sea floor at this point, she was built from a civilian liner and most civilian wrecks from that era have already collapsed.

[@grahamargent8057]

My grandfather was at the Dogger Bank incident. He rescued fishermen from the sea went on to serve in the RN in WWI and RNVR in WWII

[@Ridliman]

Third option: Kamchatka fires inside the port, hits a Spanish shop (shop not ship, a Spanish shop in the port), and then both Spaniards and British proceed to sink the whole Russian fleet while Rozhestvensky's efforts are just to hoist a boat, go to the Kamchatka, and beat the captain using a pair of binoculars while shells are falling left and right around him. What? Rozhestvensky was a pragmatic guy, so he may think "At this point, nothing there is nothing I can do to avoid dead so if I'm going to die at least I will die murderizing that son of a sleazy whore first"

[@kirgan1000]

I wounder how many replacements binoculars Zeiss did sell ; )

[@Ridliman]

@@kirgan1000 I remember Drach speaking about that in a Drydock, but I can't remember which one, but it was LONG ago.

[@gbcb8853]

Spanish ship chip shop?

[@7thsealord888]

At least the Admiral gets the immense satisfaction of beating Kamchatka's captain to death with his own hands.

[@villepore7013]

@@Ridliman IIRC in the 2nd Pacific squadron video he said that his staff had bought a box of 50 pairs of binoculars before the journey.

[@TheFlutecart]

2nd Pacific Squadron story deserves a mini series on Netflix. It has it all, vodka, action, adventure, comedy and tragedy. If there was romance, we don't want to know. Even a Science Fiction show that modified and copied the story, - it's Gold. Titanic X 30.

[@websterlf]

Check out the novel "Straits of Tsushima by Tim Chant. It features the Pacific squadron story.

[@seanbigay1042]

Your interest in a comedy this black disturbs me.

[@Cdodders27]

I can imagine that the 'broadside for honour' will score more hits on the opposing fleet than the 2nd Pacific Sqn could do while actually trying to hit them

[@Dav1Gv]

Like Fort Sumter where the only US soldier killed was when a final salute was fired as the fort surrendered.

[@emetcalf78]

The broadside for honor was frequently fired by guns facing away from the enemy fleet so as to avoid pissing them off if they were accidentally hit.

[@Cdodders27]

Yes, however this is the Russian 2nd Pacific Sqn, who scored more hits on each other (usially Aurora) than whatever their target actually was. They (probably Kamchatka) would find a way

[@emetcalf78]

The Kamchatka would probably misinterpret the orders and attempt a torpedo run on the British flagship all guns firing and sink the Russian flagship instead. The British would just sit their in disbelieving shock.

[@oldmangimp2468]

This was a well researched and thought-out scenario. However, one important detail is missing: how would the Kamchatka throw a spanner into the works and start an all-out shooting war?

[@Dafmeister1978]

If it came down to a confrontation with Beresford's battleships, I suspect the first thing Rozhestvensky would have done would be to order Kamchatka sunk in self-defence.

[@Yandarval]

Its very presence in the hemisphere would have done it. No spanner required.

[@alexandermonro6768]

Inevitably, and in a highly improbable manner...

[@merafirewing6591]

@@Dafmeister1978 still one hilarious yet unfunny way to start a world War around 8 years too soon.

[@matthewl67]

Unfortunately, anything we could speculate for this alternative history scenario would likely be insufficient for the what Kamchatka would really find to cock up.

[@aldenconsolver3428]

Having studied the second voyage to a fair extent it always surprises me that the fishing trawlers did not counterattack the Russian fleet and win a victory. It would have been a kindness to the Russian Seamen to have fought the British fleet right there, sparing them a long, horrible voyage and being sunk in a place where they had little hope of surviving. If the conflict had occurred in the channel some of the Russian ships could have at least been able to run themselves ashore

[@Brecconable]

If they seek refuge in French waters the Kamchatka opening fire on the French will trigger a traditional French flag raising ceremony involving a drapeau blanc and thus forever changing the course of European history.

[@Crazyfrog41]

@@Brecconable Except! This is the period of time where French leaderships incompetence was matched, only by there stubbornness... Meaning that they would probably damage and/or sink most of the Russian ships only to run aground thus ending the battle in a draw

[@lordmontymord8701]

True, it would have been enough to cross the Russian formation and they would have destroyed each other. Of course the Kamchatka would survive - and then open fire on their home port after thinking it was taken over by the Japanese ...

[@ryanfrederick3376]

"...you can come quietly, or you can die." Drach and I clearly share a similar sense of humor.

[@seanbigay1042]

"Come quietly or there will be ... trouble!"

[@hillogical]

On a dry dock a while back you answered a question on bringing an old admiral back to present day. I'd bring back Rozhestvensky, hand him the current events, a box of binoculars, and press record on my phone.

[@waynesworldofsci-tech]

Ohhh, why would you be so mean to the poor guy? He already had to put up with the Kamchatka. But oh man, I can imagine his fury over the state of the current Russian navy!

[@alexmiller2089]

"The Moskva was sunk HOW?" *THROWS BINOS HARD ENOUGH TO CAUSE AN EXPLOSION THAT EVAPORATES THE ENTIRE BLACK SEA*

[@hillogical]

@@alexmiller2089 Wait until he reads about the Kuznetsov.

[@alexmiller2089]

@@hillogical He would have that abomination decommissioned and used for gunnery practice

[@hillogical]

@@alexmiller2089 I honestly doubt he'd go through the decommissioning process first.

[@Jon.A.Scholt]

No matter what happens in any scenario, the Kamchatka would still be up to her crazy antics, sowing chaos in her wake.

[@tba113]

The diplomatic side is mostly new to me, and it's kind of amazing: history somehow found a way to make the 2nd Pacific Squadron's experience _even worse_ than it seemed before.

[@nomorenames7323]

The 2nd Pacific Squadron may be my favorite piece of nsval history. I struggle to think of anything I adore more than that story.

[@willghezzi]

One would be hard pressed to find a more horrendously hilarious piece of naval history

[@seanbigay1042]

But seriously, folks, we need to remember how the black comedy of the 2nd Pacific Squadron ends. The worst fleet on the seven seas meet one of the best ... and gets massacred.

[@RedDawn370]

Voyage of the damned. You need to crowd fund a movie for this!

[@weldonwin]

Preferably with the cast of The Death of Stalin

[@theother1281]

'She was cosplaying as a battleship', what a delightful turn of phrase.

[@AnimarchyHistory]

I firmly believe that if war did break out. They would have actually gone with the plan to meet them ship for ship. Because deploying Home Fleet against them would be the furthest thing from Cricket possible.

[@thomaskroboth4483]

When I read the title of the video I asked myself if it would take more than a minute for Kamchatka to be mentioned. 1:03 min 🤣

[@AROBASPARK]

Don't worry, Commarades - the Kamchatka got this. Fleet Admiral jumps overboard with his entire Box of Binoculars yelling "NOPESKI!".

[@toddwebb7521]

We all know the Pacific Squadron handily wins thanks to the spot on early warning from Kamchatka turning back the British torpedo boats.(obviously kidding)

[@Pyxis10]

And then they lose when they all shoot eachother.

[@michaelimbesi2314]

I think there are a few possible scenarios where they do end up duking it out. First option; one of Rozhestvensky’s ships fires without being ordered and this kicks off a general melee. Second option; Rozhestvensky or one of the squadrons under his command sees (or thinks they see) an opening and decides to try to outrun the British fleet down the west coast of Africa and get away without being interned. In either case. Third option; the Russian government behaves somewhat more obstinately and claims that they were actually torpedo boats, and that the British are lying as part of their alliance with Japan. This further infuriates the British population, who demand the destruction of the Second Pacific Squadron as vengeance for this insult to their national honor. In any one of the cases, I think the British are likely coming out on top quite easily, and with an even more lopsided kill/loss ratio than the Japanese had at Tsushima. Even if Beresford takes only 4 battleships into battle, between the Russian gunnery being so terrible and the 2nd Pacific Squadron possibly being stuck in port, the British are essentially fighting in practice gunnery conditions and would likely annihilate Rozhestvensky’s forces without significant loss.

[@octaviusaugustus2022]

*Inhales Deeply* "I think it is probably best to refer to Sir Julian Corbett's rather magisterial maratime operations in the Russo-Japanese war of 1904-1905 volume two" *Many Inhaler Noises*

[@tombuchanan379]

I have always been amazed they made it all. Only to be slaughtered. Voyage of the doomed. Always thought Teddy sent the Great White Fleet as a statement that the US could pull off what Russia...or anyone else not named the Royal Navy... could not. The ship pictures are one of my favorite parts of the channel but on videos like this an occasional map would be useful. I know my geography but a visual helps. Thanks. Love the channel.

[@jandobes5922]

Most likely result? Beresford: ,,Strike your colours and stay in place, until politicians can resolve the situation." Rozhestvenskiy: ,,Da, we don't want trouble with Britain, we will stay calm, as long as nobody opens fire." Kamchatka, looking at the British battle line: ,,Oh no, more Japanese torpedo boats. Fire at will!" Beresford and Rozhestvenskiy look at each other, they both nod in mutual understanding and a combined barrage from both battle lines slaps Kamchatka into the middle of the next century. End of the story.

[@GrahamWKidd]

Great topic Drach!! Yes, we Patreons are very wonderful.

[@MARGATEorcMAULER]

I'm so glad that in reality it turned out like it did, that was the most hilarious naval tale I have ever heard.Im so glad I heard it from you.Thanks Drach.

[@MoA-Reload...]

Damn it, I was excited to find out who would get to sink Kamchatka in this scenario. Maybe they sail out for the single broadside BUT Admiral Rozhestvensky makes a special request to be allowed to turn all his guns on Kamchatka just to make certain they can't screw up the honourable surrender.

[@--Dani]

The power of the Royal Navy back then is truly awesome, they would have squashed the 2nd like a bug. Had they fought, he probably wouldn't have sailed out into certain death for him and his men as you stated at the end of video, then saving more lives because the battle of Tsushima Strait wouldn't have happened. 👍

[@roho10011]

No question on the RN’s overall strength at the time, but I found it interesting how few top-line battleships where in home waters at the time. Of course they had plenty more at Gibraltar & in the Med (as well as elsewhere around the world) but I would have thought the RN would have had a fleet in home waters at the ready given they knew the Russian Baltic fleet was going to sail so close to their home.

[@bobdan9856]

I could see Admiral Rozhestvensy upon sight of the British fleet jumping in a life boat. Paddling toward the British battleships as fast as he can begging them to save him form his fleet. Then after the battle Britain sending the Japanese a bill for the ammunition expended plus 10%. Which Japan would be happy to pay.

[@thomaskositzki9424]

Yay, the 2nd Pacific Squadron! Pop a cold one and get the popcorn, it's going to get entertaining! ^^

[@rontamburrini8968]

Excellent, this is something I've wondered about since the Voyage of the Damned video.

[@treyhelms5282]

Just when you think it couldn't have gotten worse for the 2nd Pacific Squadron.

[@seanbigay1042]

"How could it possibly get any worse?" *SKREEEOOONNNKKK!* "OH, COME ON!"

[@mitchelloates9406]

Not just the number of lives and ships that would have been saved, imagine the money a certain Admiral would have saved on binoculars....

[@stargazer5784]

My favorite Admiral of all time.

[@Nordyman47]

Long time subscriber here wishes there was some way you could add captions to the beautiful ship photos for name, date and location if known. Thanks for your hard work.

[@vikkimcdonough6153]

2nd Pacific Squadron: _Extremely_ screwed.

[@FireFox_60]

He wouldn’t throw away his men but he would throw away the entire box of binoculars

[@scocon8658]

Around 27:50-ish you mentioned the Russian Pacific Fleet being "interred" - That's about right, IMO...

[@joelcarson9514]

Came here for the Rozhestvensky's binocular comments, was not disappointed.

[@MakeMeThinkAgain]

Now we need an account of the IJN Torpedo Boat Squadron at Dogger Bank.

[@vicmclaglen1631]

What might have been the impact of thus denying the Japanese the opportunity to have their glorious victory at Tsushima? No subsequent confidence/pride boost, perhaps less war mongering and massive fleet build up...who knows. Knowing how historically cautious they tended to be when committing their fleet, would they still have been bold enough in Dec of '41, would they have built up the same sort of fleet at all? Impossible to answer but interesting to consider.

[@The_Modeling_Underdog]

Either looking at what really happened or in a What-if scenario such as this one, you can't help but having some simpathy for Rozhestvensky. A proper candidate to the "Semper Iratus" tittle after Admiral King. The man had some solid balls of steel and a good brain, as well. One minor quip on this one, Drach. Kamchatka didn't pull any shenanigans, like sinking a trawler off the coast of Vigo, ramming the wharf at Tangiers or happily signaling the Royal Navy to stay away or risk be sunk. Cheers!

[@k.f.m6901]

Hey Drach, here's an suggestion for the 5 minute guide: the Trento class italian heavy cruisers

[@roho10011]

Great video; thank you. You don’t think the Russian admiral would be thinking; 1. The Czar will kill me if I surrender our last fleet to the English without a fight. 2. About what Britain did to the Danish fleet… TWICE. Cheers

[@alexcrawford6162]

Good timing, I just rewatched your 2nd Pacific Sqn videos yesterday!

[@Leeeeegion]

I like the idea that the British let them go because the Japanese wired in that they would like to meet the 2nd pacific squadron for a fun battle.

[@jayst]

I am a descendant from his family. My dad and I were tracing our genealogy and I wanted to learn more. Thanks for making this video.

[@oj8868]

From the title, I was expecting a slightly tounge-in-cheek war game akin to other historical what-ifs you have examined previously. But this sober analysis turned out quite a bit more interesting!

[@ph89787]

28:57 plus or minus some grumbling from the IJN ranks at being denied glorious battle.

[@bkjeong4302]

Which is another major butterfly that’s going to come out of this.

[@ph89787]

@@bkjeong4302 that’s going to mess up the Kantai Kessen.

[@bkjeong4302]

@@ph89787 Exactly.

[@jackthorton10]

That’s the point:)

[@johncunningham6928]

There is just one thought... All your possible outcomes disregard one thing... The wild card that was Kamchatka... She could have... pulled total annihilation out of any sensible, pragmatic solution

[@panzerdeal8727]

Rozhestvensky, signals british fleet: "Watch my glasses!" throws binoculars at Kamchatka: "There's the one you want, may I go now ?"

[@Huntress236]

You should do a discussion of your own family history as it pertains to naval history.

[@johnmiller8975]

Cthulu "I am the God of madness" Kamchatka "My vodka, hold it"

[@alpha_kappa_357]

thumbnail is the real picture of global allied fleet awaiting the rumbling

[@CSSVirginia]

How would Japan have responded? Gratitude to their allies? Resentment for "kill stealing"?

[@michaelcampin1464]

I must admit I read a very interesting article about the Dogger Bank incident in a gentlemens magazine when I was alot younger. Yes I really did read the article not only look at the lovely young ladies

[@tulsatrash]

Thanks for this look into how close war between the Russian and British Empires came to happenings after the dogger bank incident.

[@Geoff31818]

ooooh i want to hear this!

[@nauticalwolf6649]

How would a broadside for honor work? Would there be signals saying it would be done? Would the shots be wildly off course or just come up short? Etc.

[@Archie2c]

To bid only 4 ships vs the whole Squadron with 4 back up is very Battletech clan Invasion.

[@BrassSpyglass]

Rozhestvensky definitely would not have commanded his ships to engage the British under any circumstances. The Kamchatka on the other hand would be steaming at flank speed guns blazing, probably killing Rozhestvensky by either giving him a stroke or from a wild shot hitting the Knyaz Suvorov's bridge, thus condemning the Russians to the ocean floor.

[@cartmann94]

That’s okay. The Russians only needed to tell the Kamchatka that the Royal Navy were all torpedo boats, and the battle would have been over. Kamchatka was the Scrappy Doo of naval ships.

[@bkjeong4302]

Don’t forget her gunnery was so bad she fired 300 rounds without hitting anything.

[@JMM33RanMA]

When studying the decades leading up to WW I, I was struck by how may times it failed to ignite. This potential Russo-British war was not something I had read of. What I remember most vividly was that a Typhoon prevented a three-sided war between UK, US and Germany over possession of the Samoan Islands. The British ships mostly survived, the German and US ships did not fare as well. If another Naval War that Might Have Been is in the cards, this one should be considered.

[@alexmiller2089]

*Admiral Rozhetzventski dumps out 40 foot connex full of binoculars into the Atlantic as the Home Fleet and Channel Fleet surround him*

[@jefferyindorf699]

To paraphrase Obama, Never underestimate Kamchatka's ability to f*ck things up.

[@jedimasterdraco6950]

I guess we now know who the captain of that ship was.

[@RossEphgrave]

Would have been interesting to know Japan's involvement if any in this possibility... I would imagine they would have loved to see the British join them in their war...

[@mikearmstrong8483]

Think of all the hardship Rozhezventsky could have been saved if he had been annihilated by the British in the channel or off Portugal or Gibraltar instead of sailing halfway around the world to meet that fate. Dudeski just couldn't catch a break with a net.

[@ahseaton8353]

In the "real world," the conventional wisdom was the Russians were prohibited from using the Suez Canal due to the Dogger Bank Incident. However, Drach says that the Russian battleships we're always going to go around the Cape of Good Hope due to their draft (probably) being too deep for the canal.

[@Drachinifel]

Elements of the Russian fleet (older ships and those with shallow draught) did make the Suez transit. So I think the deeper draught of the newer ships, complicated by the deep loading they were under for the voyage, was always an issue, Digger Bank or not.

[@AIRRAID2]

👍🏻Nice nice 👍🏻 Thank you.

[@nigeldepledge3790]

A fascinating look at what might have been. However, when you talk about the Russian squadron being "interred" at Gibraltar, I really hope you meant "interned". The former is a funerary rite, while the latter is simple imprisonment.

[@adventussaxonum448]

The difference in terminology would depend on whether the Russians fought or surrendered.

[@RavenclawEaglet]

Honestly the more interesting question would be... what would the Japanese Combined Fleet and the prospective battle have looked like in June/July/August 1905? Assuming that Rozhestvensky gets orders to get to Vladivostok anyway after a one to two month internment.

[@hanzzel6086]

Well, by that point they would likely be saddled with most of the 3rd Squadron for most of the journey, so add another couple of months of travel time due to the floating scrap heaps. Which would likely mean many more Japanese ships present. On the other hand, that is an additional ~4 months of general training (and ~2 months of additional gunnery practice once out of European waters. Considering the massive improvements manged during the irl voyage, that could be significant), potentially better supply lines having been established, and perhaps a 4th Squadron of (relatively) capable ships purchased from the various South American and lesser European powers (purchased in case the British decided to destroy/keep the 2nd while in interment/as an attempt to save face after it's humiliation). All in all, I don't see it ending that different, a much more capable Russian fleet gets destroyed by a significantly superior Japanese force.

[@charleshite7707]

I have never heard of admiral Drachinifel.

Very interesting what if

[@juancarlosperezcortes9259]

I think the Russians miss a big opportunity to get rid of The Kamchatka and shake its bad luck

[@abyssaljam441]

a broad side for honor should be the title of a book detailing very short naval engagements

[@KyriosMirage]

Something tells me that the Spanish would not have approved of high-caliber naval guns going off in their ports. I could see a blockade as another option, though the Spanish probably couldn't have done anything to stop Beresford if he decided to come on in.

[@JennyMingClarke]

The Spanish would have lodged a formal note of protest and sent a bill to the Briish who would have TOLD the Russians to pay or Else.

[@AtholAnderson]

It’s only tangentially related, but if the Japanese hadn’t bottled it up in Port Arthur, how would the First Pacific Squadron faired in an open ocean engagement against the IJN?

[@hanzzel6086]

Not great. While they had modern ships, experienced and extremely well (by Russian standards) trained crews, and mostly modern ships, they where hopelessly outnumbered. Iirc they had 5 BBs (before one hit a mine and sank) and 7 cruisers. And they were low on fuel and ammunition. Now, if the 1st and 2nd had managed to link up the Japanese may be in trouble, but separated both are doomed. And the 3rd, which must have been thrice blessed in order to have remained afloat long enough to make it to Tsushima, and would have improved the Russian chances significantly if it had stayed home.

[@ricardokowalski1579]

We needed a Rozhéstvenski at Mers al kabir.

[@TheEvilMrJeb]

Drach Drach Drach… the Russian 2nd Pacific Squadron surrendering and saving their lives? That’s a happy ending. You know that Russian tales progress with “and then things got worse.” Here’s what would actually happen: Rohesvinky is supervising the “broadside for honor” and surrender of his fleet. All they have to do to live is not hit the British, and with the fleet’s accuracy, that won’t be a problem. “Why is Kamchatka sailing into gun range of the British fleet?”

[@jackthorton10]

Not one step back… even at sea

[@glenallen196]

They need a major Hollywood movie about this legendary trip. The humour along the lines of the film 'the death of stalin'

[@TomFynn]

After "The Fast and the Furious" now: "The Slow and Infuriating".

[@seanbigay1042]

Dude, talk about black comedy ...

[@michaelmoorrees3585]

Not just torpedo boats, but Japanese torpedo boats ! Didn't know they that kind of range !? The officers on Kamchatka were "geniuses" ! (Note the quotes).

[@theofficerfactory2625]

I have no evidence but I am sure the French would of offered safe harbor to any damaged vessel as the Germans would be like "Oh, drama. Let's observe!"

[@090giver090]

Every neutral nation would have offered safe harbour to any damaged vessel. They'd just have interned the ships if they were unable to repair and leave in time (see three Russian cruisers at Philippines after Tsushima)

[@noncynic1]

Who ends up paying to clear Vigo bay of all that scrap metal, England or Russia?

[@MrGouldilocks]

Britain should have just sank the damn second Pacific squadron to teach Russia some manners. What the hell was Russia thinking? They literally risked going to war and having the last part of their Navy annihilated because they were too proud to apologize. If anything, just issue an apology, to avoid having your fleet blown out of the water, and then quietly do an inquiry. If during the inquiry, Russia decides they weren't at fault, then retract the apology.

[@MrFangsea]

I wonder if the russians haste to leave was due to knowing his fleet could be bogged down for a while due to the incident and would be better to just move on. Like how he tried to avoid the other ships later on in the voyage.

[@gunengineering1338]

"We have concluded that your crew is appallingly wreckless and deserving of the utmost punishment. Therefore; in stead of forcing you out of action and sending your crew home, we are releasing you to go meet your fate at the hands of the Japanese."

[@tyk.6406]

"Russia depleting modern capital ships for no apparent purpose." Nope, that doesn't sound at all familiar.

[@philliprandle9075]

Great what if topic. Keep up the hard work

[@stefanusloloanpieterhutaba2744]

Who was the commander of the reserve fleet you talked about? It raised my interest

[@obsidianjane4413]

I don't think any of the families of British sailors killed while he was giving the Russian fleet a sporting chance, would have appreciated Beresford's "chivalry". It was a rather unprofessional thing to even jest about.

[@gbcb8853]

Mers el Kebir in Tunisia?

[@BuzbyWuzby]

...and Yamamoto would have kept his fingers

[@johnshepherd9676]

There would be long term repercussions from a Anglo-Russian confrontation that are being overlooked. The Russian government would most certainly blame the British for their loss to the Japanese which would have diminished the likelihood of Britain joining the Frano-Russian alliance and leading to British neutrality in any general European war.

[@090giver090]

> The Russian government would most certainly blame the British for their loss to the Japanese Like they didn't do so IRL 😁(In case my irony isn't clear: they totally did so IRL) >would have diminished the likelihood of Britain joining the Frano-Russian alliance The OG "Entente Cordial" was signed between France and Britain in April 1904. Half a year before 2nd Pacific squadron even set sail. Originally Franco-British and Franco-Russian alliances were two separate cases only made into a three-way friendship we associate with the "Entente" today by German invasion of Belgium at the start of WW1.

[@generalgrievous2202]

Would be interesting to see how this scenario would effect the 1905 Russian revolution

[@wesleygay8918]

I'm really thankful that conflict with Britain was avoided. I can only imagine the amount of poor innocent pairs of binoculars that would have to be sacrificed to satiate the Russian admiral's anger.