Advance Wars Unit Analysis: Mech

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Advance Wars Unit Analysis: Mech
Welcome to my new series where I analyze units from Advance Wars. In this installment, I will be taking a look at the mech.
#gba #advancewars #nintendo

[@Mangs1337]

Sami and Sensei mains, this one is for you.

[@xmlash234]

All hail the tomboy commando

[@Chokoboh]

I love you, Egg. In a platonic way, of course.

[@TheSortingHelmet]

I, as a Sensei main, take offense to this here video. We unga bunga with mechs. Mech superiority.

[@gabrielsantosbastos5257]

Mechs are dumb, they don't do rocket jump and they only carry 3 rockets instead of 24

[@Ywthg5w6gwvyw]

As a Sensei Main thanks.

[@Chokoboh]

Infantry and Mechs running out of fuel does actually mean, they just ran out of field rations and are starving which stops them from moving much further since at this point they need to start hunting for food to not die. Luckily, the APC-Ice cream and Hot-Dog truck can come to their rescue.

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

And Drake just runs over and eats half of every infantry squad's 30+ day ration supply, then disappears into the night when he activates his power.

[@zeroomega3781]

@@aprinnyonbreak1290 Well, he does have a big belly...

[@SoldierOfFate]

@@aprinnyonbreak1290 Does that also mean he drinks the fuels of hostile vehicles in the process?

[@petergriscom3431]

@@aprinnyonbreak1290 I always thought he just gets half of your baguette supply wet.

[@cpanrusty5187]

@@SoldierOfFate because he have the American spirit even he's from europe

[@Zetact_]

Mangs: "For Mech spam to be viable you want to have a lot of bases and a small map." Sensei: "What was that, sonny? I didn't quite catch it. I'm old!"

[@nathanraby7659]

Not if you are in advanced wars 2 where he wasn't senile

[@andresdeleon9697]

Hachi wants to talk to you

[@nathanraby7659]

@@andresdeleon9697 I don't get it

[@andresdeleon9697]

@@nathanraby7659 with Hachi's Super Power you can deploy any ground unit you want on allied cities, basicly almost any property turns into a base for one turn.

[@DrDrao]

Honestly, I've been testing sensei for quite a while and sensei mechs aren't all they're cracked up to be. Sensei loves his infantry and battle copters, can justify transports more easily than other cos, and plays an above average amount of mechs, but he's still gonna use a ton of tanks, he's still gonna use recons, and his indirects are really good because of his ability to make fodder. The only commonly built unit sensei doesn't tend to build is the aa because his bcs are basically aa, and even then, he builds them from time to time.

[@carlphilippgaebler5704]

"Even if a mech is in the mountains, the anti-air will deal a lot of damage" That makes sense, if it's in the mountains it's up high so it's kinda like a helicopter

[@shinyrayquaza9]

anti air also rip through infantry even faster than a recon

[@SoldierOfFate]

@@shinyrayquaza9 Anti-Airs use a Vulcan Cannon (which is a 20mm Gatling Cannon) while Recons use .50 cal machine guns. You do not want to know what a 20mm round can do to a human being.

[@ardantop132na6]

@@SoldierOfFate Even worse, the type of the rounds that AAs were carrying (Fragmentation round)

[@dennylukman1801]

@@ardantop132na6 so, auto cannon grenade launcher?

[@ardantop132na6]

@@dennylukman1801 Pretty much just a low-arch auto grenade launcher that you can detonate it using fuzes.

[@Spilsbury1989]

What Mangs says: "dont aim to capture properties with mechs or worry about resupplying them What the comment section hears: "never ever capture with a mech or resupply them"

[@Delimon007]

Technically the 2nd part of that statement isn't wrong 😂 You pretty much NEVER resupply them as they should generally be defending cities anyway and you probably aren't going to be capping much with a unit with 2 movement. . . They are for anti-veh measures where you have the time to actually get them into position.

[@inversepie6512]

It's worth mentioning the mechanized infantry are a thing in real life. These are infantry that use APCs and IFVs to move around quickly. Clearly, Mechs in Advance Wars were designed and balanced in tandem with APC use.

[@darkwatershadow]

yeah. I use a lot of indirects so I usually have spare APCs around to put mechs in. As a result, I tend to build them more than infantry after the initial base scramble is over. Unless it's a low econ map and I need to save money.

[@TheEmperorGulcasa]

While APCs do make a single mech a fair bit more mobile, APCS are pretty costly to be ferrying any large force of mechs around. If they wanted mechs to be supported heavily by transports, I think a cheaper transport option would have been needed. Maybe a unit splitting the APC into a cheaper transport and a separate supply/construction vehicle.

[@supazippy3059]

@@TheEmperorGulcasa Famicom and Super Famicom Wars originally had the troop transport and supply truck. For reasons both got replaced with the APC in Advance Wars. I think it was done to simplify unit variety.

[@TheEmperorGulcasa]

@@supazippy3059 I can kinda see why since I don't think anyone would ever build a dedicated resupply unit in the AW environment since most units die before depleting their resources. Still, the APC is definitely not something to actually facilitate large scale infantry mobility. Maybe if there was like a lander for infantry, more costly but able to carry large squads. That would allow actual waves of mechs to go to the front.

[@quigglebert]

@@TheEmperorGulcasa a 40k Gorgon equivalent?

[@yofyo]

Mechs are really nice for pre-empting defensive measures (or establishing a newly captured base for cheap) as their movement speed is far less of a liability when they're just wrecking vehicles near your base. They are fantastic specialized units.

[@alex_zetsu]

I think the problem is when people try to use the Mechs as generalists. That works if 75% of the enemy funds are in Recons and he doesn't build a single rocket. Now you Mechs can demolish most of the enemy and shouldn't have problem reaching the few short ranged indirects he has.

[@gary9346]

Finally a sensible post

[@alex_zetsu]

I actually realized the mech's value for defensive measures can be weakened in the presence of com towers (which I detest since every map with them results in a scramble for them). A Mech on a city in AW2 can hold out against a combined attacked by an Infantry and a Tank, although its counterattack on infantry will be strong and it will barely scratch the tank. In AWBW, both attackers need to roll 2 or less for the Mech to survive. The Mech's ability to make the opponent waste time attacking cities don't apply with com towers, meaning most use you get out of them are going to be when you get a first strike with them. This means for the most part, if you make more than 3 in an online match you're probably having at least one do nothing other than wrecking a unit next to your base. Subtle changes like this make Mechs less viable online, another reason to like emulators more.

[@drdramallama]

One thing I have to say watching this series, I appreciate how Mangs puts time into making these maps look visually appealing. Like they're just for demonstration purposes so they don't have to look nice, it could just be a cluster of units on plains with some road or mountain tiles to show terrain differences. But he actually does nice things like adding already captured cities or forest tiles and generally making them have a nice flow to them. Could this be a future hobby in map design...?

[@cheesecakedoublepeanutbutt6511]

Mechs guarding a tank is the most combined arm stuff Ive ever seen in a video game lol

[@happyjohn354]

Its almost as if its named after mechanized infantry...

[@SoldierOfFate]

That's real life military tactics for you. Tanks IRL always fight with infantry support because the former have blind spots where their cannons and guns can't hit (especially if hostiles get too close)

[@Delimon007]

This is pretty much the only time I even use mechs outside of sami, sensei, or hachi.

[@StivKobra]

I really like the setups you are doing for the examples you are showing. It's great for new players to actually see it in action tutorial, rather than just talking about the unit while previous gameplay footage is running in the background. Also, them tanks in the thumbnail - literally unwatchable, cancelling my preorder. Looking forward to that video though.

[@kingarthur3236]

Mechs have insane advantages, I mean if you can get them to shoot on a vehicle it's so hilariously cost-effective The problem is that more often than not your mechs are going to get shot by infantry and die before they do anything Their low Mobility is already kind of a killer, especially since they take alot of damage from strikes by vehicles, but what really messes them up is that they lose to infantry and infantry are just everywhere. Infantry have more move and are insanely cost effective against mechs, so ther chances that your 2 move guys are going to be cost-effective by shooting a tank with 6 movement is much smaller than the chance they get destroyed by an infantry. So yeah they aren't completely unviable but losing to infantry is so bad Also they literally cannot approach artillery without being in range without a movement boost so artillery shielded by infantry is a hard counter.

[@eggaiug]

Mech + Recon or AntiAir is good combo then

[@Delimon007]

Mountains are you friends :)

[@GurraDesu]

What is interesting, just mathematically, is that a first strike mech vs Md Tank is tit for tat, 15% is about 2400G value damage. The return fire usually leaves the Mech at 2HP, which is also 2400G. With attack boosts and RNG this can vary, but it means that striking a full health Md Tank with a mech is at the very least cost neutral in most cases. Basically; any time the mech can fire with a Bazooka is actually a fair cost trade, so go for it. The difference is knowing which target is more valuable to neutralise. AA firing on a mech in a mountain just slightly better than breaks even (63% dmg to mech = 1900G, 20% counter dmg to AA = 1600G). That said, an 8HP AA is still extremely useful.

[@kingarthur3236]

Taking if you're lucky 2 hp on a medium tank is not worth losing 8hp on a mech As mangs previously brought up bases are a resource, so almost throwing away a full unit just so you can do 2 HP of damage is usually not a good idea

[@GurraDesu]

@@kingarthur3236 Not disagreeing. Just talking about cost-effectiveness. A 2HP mech is just an over-priced hurdle against the enemy, so you'd obviously prefer to take engagements thta allows them a full HP first strike again.

[@LuLu-ip4zb]

Mech First strike is cost neutral or better against all ground units

[@alex_zetsu]

@@GurraDesu If I see a Medium Tank on a road and can attack with 3 Mechs or 2 Mechs and a tank, one of the Mechs can attack from the city, and the tank can attack from plains or better, I'll go for it. 3 Mechs is not too likely (although it can happen in PVP fog of war!), but 2 mechs and a tank is certainly possible. The first Mech attacks from the city to the road and the 3 stars will keep it mostly safe instead of being a 2 HP Mech like in the default example. The next Mech attacks, ideally from defensive terrain, but if it had to get behind the medium tank and attack from the road, that's fine. The tank (or third Mech) deals the third blow and by this point the Medium Tank will have lost a lot of its bite. Even though bases are a resource too, this is certainly worth it. If a Medium tank on a road is at 6 HP or less, I'll feel fine attacking with a full health Mech even if I can't follow up immediately with another unit unless vision in that sector is absolutely necessary and I can't use infantry to scout. Both AW2 and AWBY have maps where the Medium Tank's shortest drive from one ley point to attack another involves staying on a road and it lacks the 2 movement necessary to reposition to a plain. I sometimes see a Medium tank drive up to a city to attack a regular Tank. One time this happened, it was close to my Mech ball, so I just drove the Tank away, attacked with the 3 Mechs, and moved a battlecoptor in that direction.

[@Hone_mor2525]

I only really like mechs when I use a CO that can boost their movement. I feel like they are a lot better on Adder than Sami just because Adder gets his sideslip more often than double time.

[@lachlanv.b.7783]

Actually yeah. With his baseline tanks, high mobility mechs and inf would provide enormous support and give him a lot of potential to flank the enemy

[@LeoMidori]

@@lachlanv.b.7783 Yeah, that's actually a really good point. Sure, a tank with +2 is very good, but a +2 mech suddenly has reach and instantly overcomes its biggest weakpoint on a frequent basis. Would make them pretty great for capturing too! Adder is starting to get my respect more and more.

[@brandonwilliams6119]

That’s very true, Adder Mechs are really good

[@alex_zetsu]

I Like Sami Mechs and Mechs in general. True Adder's movement boost for one turn helps their main weakness (low movement) and he gets to use that more often than Sami's Victory March. I think the reason why people think Mechs are a noob play is that often they are spammed. This works in a lot of the original VS maps, especially AW2, but not custom ones made by users that are more balanced. I build mechs as Andy, but I have more Tanks, AA, Battlecoptors, and Infantry. As Sami I build three times as many Mechs as I do for Andy, Drake, or Eagle but even then I don't neglect the fact that I need her inferior direct combat vehicles. I also need her indirects, but I usually don't need to state that since Sami players are more likely to forget Tanks exist than forget Rockets exist.

[@kosmos4845]

i have to disagree with this one sami has a much better co power overall then adder plus the daily firepower bonus. the only co i would say is arguably better is sensei just because of his insane ramp and daily firepower bonus

[@krisjohn4668]

I like that a-air point their guns up when shooting at mechs in mountains.

[@flukenchrome9259]

Mechs are usually better the closer you are to your enemy as you don’t have to move over a long distance that the mech suffers from.Small maps tend to have shorter distances from the enemy and short distances favours mechs. Mechs are also good when they get to the frontlines quicker than vehicles as their weakness is being slower than vehicles and if they can’t reach the fronts quicker,they don’t really have weakness.

[@Holacalaca]

Its funny, as a kid i usually did all of these same long winded explanations and testing on the strategies game i played. I know every unit in Rome Total War and the composition of each faction. Its funny to think some people out there would love to hear the ramblings i do for fun.

[@Insulted25]

Never underestimate the Mech! Another good use for mechs is as city guards. Your opponent will be dissuaded from attacking them with tanks as tanks will take return fire, and infantry also have a hard time doing significant damage.

[@alex_zetsu]

Yeah, I've said this in a post I've made by myself, but Mech return fire is strong. Mangs say to attack Mechs with your infantry, but if I can attack a 2 HP infantry somewhere and not be next to the city or attack a 10 HP mech on a city, I'll finish off the infantry. And against Sami or Sonja, I often don't even bother even if there are no other targets since the first unit to attack one of their Mechs just get mauled on the counterattack. It can be worth it if I do something like attack with an Infantry (which will get hit hard and become little more than a meatshield) and then follow up with a Mech, Recon, or Tank (who will do more damage than an Infantry and take a lot less counterattack damage thanks to the noble efforts of the first guy). Mechs are descent city guards and those two COs just make me not bother most of the time.

[@Insulted25]

@@alex_zetsu Doing the math, it looks like on a map without com towers, even an infantry+tank combo cannot kill a mech on a city, it will survive with 1hp (assuming generic units). With 1 com tower though the combo will defeat it. Maps with com towers make the mech slightly less worthwile as it's a unit that is just less likely to get first strikes.

[@alex_zetsu]

@@Insulted25 Please don't remind me com towers exist. Back to AW2... you're right. An infantry alone wouldn't do the job and I wouldn't generally do it and against Sami or Sonja I just wouldn't bother. even the combo wouldn't do it. The infantry + tank combo is just so that the tank doesn't take terrible damage on the counterattack, not to kill it. If my objective was to drive a unit through the city, this wouldn't work even with generic units and you're right the Mech did a great job as a city guard since I attacked it with 2 units and still need another turn before I can drive though. If my objective is just to make the area secure for my units the Mech doesn't have support, then I made 2 attacks, didn't finish off the Mech, but I think I did a good job given the situation and the other guy did a good job forcing me into it. If I did something like drive a Recon to finish off an artillery and then after that noticed I put it right next to a city with the Mech on it, (and the Recon makes me sure no artillery will attack a tank I put next to the city) attacking the with the infantry first and then a Tank I think would be a good move. In the case of me needing to drive through the city, the Mech is still in the way and I need another turn. In the case I'm just securing the area, I did my job that turn, but I wouldn't have been willing to attack with only 1 unit since the first guy takes too much counterattack damage. In the case of me saving the unit I placed next to the city, I'd consider the short term objective achieved. In all cases you're right the Mechs were good city guards. The city Mech would have prevented me from placing my units on 3 star terrain and took 2 units to neutralize. And in the case I needed to drive though the city, well even 2 units against 1 and I'm still wasting time.

[@happyjohn354]

@@alex_zetsu I think they do something like 15% more damage with their rifles on average. With a CO build geared toward infantry they whoop ass.

[@HienNguyen-fg4do]

17:40 clearly someone in the balance team see that kanbei mech in a HQ is so OP that they decided to make them to be more vulnerable to bomber

[@michaela2634]

Mechs have always underwhelmed me. They're never where they need to be and get picked off on their long march to the front lines. Movement of 2 is a real killer. They're pretty good on small, terrain-heavy maps though but those types of maps are rare in competitive play.

[@the24thcolossusjustchillin39]

Isn’t that What APCs, T copters and landers are for?

[@ibrahimabumustafa7335]

@@the24thcolossusjustchillin39 the proplem is the fact that you have to buy those transports and mechs which costs both money and bases, and players in general prefer to build infantry for the importance of the early control of the capture game and tanks for counter pushing.

[@michaela2634]

@@the24thcolossusjustchillin39 Yeah but they're a pretty big investment, especially landers. And transporting units often gives your opponent the advantage because the units cant act when they're dropped. So the mech ends up being a sitting duck for one turn.

[@Chokoboh]

Mechs are quite niche, (spamming them is often a very bad idea) but they are also real badasses compared to your regular footsoldier. Movement of 2 is only fair, since they do carry much heavier equipment than the standard Infantry.

[@DarkOrderSolDjango]

If you have a mech behind a tank your opponent will think twice about attacking that tank, in FOW matchs mechs are important because they can be a good bait for your artilery.

[@mimizdani8194]

17:48 that's because the mech has bazookas and bomber have a chance to make them explode dealing more DMG compared to infantry

[@Mangs1337]

By that logic, shouldn't in-directs also deal more dmg to mechs?

[@stivaoblonskystan]

The real reason is obviously that the bazookas are more visible from thousands of feet up, increasing the chance of a positive hit

[@zer0name720]

I thought it was because mechs' equipment weighed them down too much for them to take cover fast enough, or something

[@mimizdani8194]

@@Mangs1337 i guess not, cuz the indirects send the bombs at an angle. While bombers send them vertical. Allowing the bombs to hit the bazookas at a 90° to maximize damage hahaha Quick maths

[@mimizdani8194]

@@stivaoblonskystan AAah so the camouflage don't work that much haha

[@samuelgonzalez8480]

I love how quickly you can pump out these videos, they definititely seem easy to make, but they just show how much experience and love you have for this game, plus they are extremely interesting and entretaining

[@tifforo1]

I feel like you just described the mech unit itself

[@johannesrehn6494]

Been playing days of ruin lately and I find that will and his power + mech spam is amazing on most maps that's not too heavy on airports or ports

[@TheEmperorGulcasa]

Mechs are also cheaper in DoR aren't they?

[@jeffreychinn609]

Yep, 500 cheaper

[@derkatwork33]

Advance wars logic: the guys carrying heavy equipment travel faster through rough and impassible terrain than the guys with basic equipment.

[@crowhaveninc.2103]

My head-canon for that is that mechs carry gear and tools that make them more effective at traversing terrain like that, which is one of the reasons why their overal speed is so low.

[@stivaoblonskystan]

@@crowhaveninc.2103 Maybe their "mechanization" is actually an exoskeleton hidden under their clothes or something, which lets them carry the bazookas around and climb without tiring but slows them down overall

[@LeoMidori]

@@stivaoblonskystan I always saw them as wearing some body armor as well since machine gun fire isn't as effective on Mechs as it is on Infantry.

[@kairionnefarian-eu6691]

I find it a weird balancing quirk. Mechs are good on maps wich tend to restrict movement & vision. A lot of mountains, rivers and forrests really let them shine. But maps with hard to traverse terrain tend to provoke stalemates and choke the fun out of a match. I think saying mech is a weak unit doesn't do them justice. They are a formidable unit, yet the metagame of advance wars decided the game is more fun on maps where they can't abuse their strengths.

[@anonyme4881]

True, in AWBW maps tends to be a very open field, and mechs becale weak in this case I would like to see more restrictive map in AWBW

[@crawfy48]

@@anonyme4881 check out Scorpion Operation, it's a great map

[@anonyme4881]

@@crawfy48 Damn it looks beautifull

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

I'd actually say that the "meta" of advance wars shies away from maps where Mechs do well, because when Mechs do well, they are damn near unstoppable.

[@soulhoney1227]

I wish they used the bazoka to blown up a battlecopter

[@SonicFanDU]

Same, I guess the bazookas in the game are not locked-on guided missiles but like RPGs.

[@LeoMidori]

@@SonicFanDU Precisely. I'm imagining that copters just are a little too high up or evasive enough to dodge such things, and having Mechs with a seeking missile would increase their cost a fair bit.

[@Delimon007]

@@SonicFanDU You can take out slower moving aircraft without locking on. . . what do you think they used RPG for?!?!? Ground units only???

[@stoffhimel]

the bomber probably does more due to how much slower the mechs move. its more like dodging issues.

[@Chokoboh]

*Infantry-sans big bröther, the Mech-kun.* If Infantry are the generalist footsoldier for everyday tasks in warfare, the Mech are a highly specialized and heavily and expensively equipped special forces unit. They carry heavy Bazookas against Vehicles, they carry mountain-climbing gear and are even equipped with some kind of waterproof suits to heavily accelerate the traversal of otherwise very difficult terrain. Also, their military training was probably much more extensive and specialized to fill those niche roles which they're made for. Compared to virgin Infantry, Mechs are real Chads who can hold their own pretty well on a Battlefield where freaking Tanks are the Meta. No wonder the deployment cost of Mechs is three times as much as regular Infantrymen.

[@happyjohn354]

Bruh they just used mech because mechanized infantry is to long they specialize when riding in vehicles. They also do 15% more damage with their rifles.

[@I-ONLY-BUILD-MECHS-AND-DUSTERS]

Damn, my favorite unit of all time, because it's so hard to reason about how to use them properly. Assuming all decision making skill is equal, the battle will come down to an economic battle, and that's really the whole point of mechs: getting an edge in cost effectiveness. Yet it's infinitely complex just deciding when and where it would be correct to build them, and it's extremely hard to reason about what would or wouldn't have happened if you built something else. I also think they are significantly better in fog because they work rather well as an inexpensive gotcha unit. Being the slowest unit in the game, it is really hard to get them to do anything in non-fog against an equally skilled player. Really the only way they can even hit anything is 1) Enemy has no choice but to be hit, for instance they're surrounded. Getting surrounded doesn't really speak to the effectiveness of mechs (especially since they are so damn slow they will rarely be around any kind of surrounded target) so I'll ignore this situation. 2) Enemy has decided it's worth it to take the mech hit. This is BAD, because an equally skilled player will only let this happen if it's worth it, for instance, if he crushes your army at the same time. In that situation, he doesn't care about taking an odd mech hit, because you are already wiped out. So the main situations in non-fog mechs get to be effective are 1) Very rare and kinda luck/random based 2) Only when your opponent decides it's okay. That's not a great use case. In fog though, I like them on defense. A mech jumping out of a tree to hit a tank is the ultimate feels bad, and your opponent often doesn't get to decide shit. Being cost effectively countered by the most numerous unit, infantry, is a huge problem for mechs. Haven't watched the video yet but I'm guessing you already covered this part. I also actually see them as very similar to indirects in several ways. Indirects are defined by their inability to move and attack. For mechs it's almost the same. Of course, they CAN move and attack, but in practice? They mostly just move and create a zone of control (like indirects, in non fog) which your opponent will avoid, unless he decides it's worth even more to move into the zone. No equally skilled player just moves their tank in range of a mech without blasting it first unless they have a good reason to do so, just like they don't really ever move into range of artillery or rockets unless they have a good reason. One last thing, I think the campaigns conditioned us as youngsters to avoid slow units because of goddamn S ranks. This goes for indirects as well. It's often pretty tough to find a truly good use for scrappy units like mechs or slow units like indirects against the AI because their front lines crumble so quickly, your slow units are forever repositioning and never attacking. And we REALLY don't want to be using a unit that is both slow and easily killed, as that goes against two of the three total rating axes. There is no axis which ranks cost effectiveness. It's interesting when he brings up Adder as that's probably a synergy few people ever consider. Flat increases like +2 movement are best when increasing something that has a low base value. If you could have a unit with 100 movement, you really wouldn't care about getting a flat +2 on top of that. But this +2 move doubles the speed of mechs and turns them into goddamn ninja assassins. It's always good when you can heavily negate a weakness that is supposed to keep a very strong tool in check. Holy freakin hell I never knew about that bomber damage on mechs. My entire worldview is actually shattered, like what the hell is the logic behind that.

[@piotrtoborek2442]

About bombers' damage on mechs: carpet bombing is easier against heavier less mobile targets, which pretty much describes mech vs. infantry. While tanks have strong thick armor, personel armor used by mech won't help them in this case xD

[@ZorotheGallade]

They're a good early game compromise. You get to capture properties with an unit that can still go toe to toe with weaker vehicles and either win or at least chip them before they can push into your territory.

[@MrMarket1987]

Arguably they're at least useful for defensive strategies. More so in FOW. Since they struggle to go far, it can't hurt to have a few staying close to base and HQ routes to ambush a strong unit coming by or someone trying to sneak into blocking your spawns while having the effective attack range of Artillery at half the cost. And it should leave you with a decent amount of Funds to work with elsewhere.

[@peterstorm8089]

I know it is not in any of there sprite work (except arguably Black Hole) but given the name Mechanized Infantry I always imagined these guys wearing some kind of Exo-suit. Would explain why they are simultaneously slower than infantry but can traverse difficult terrain even better.

[@plaguelord22]

This was how I learnt that mechs can easily move over most terrain Thank you Mangs

[@Lestoni814]

I'm a simple man, I see Mangs uploads a Unit Analysis video and I click on it. Then I click that Like button.

[@JoseMoreno-gu2bf]

Mechs are vey map dependent. Even though, out of favorable terrain, if you built an early APC (to accelerate your captures) it can be used to ferry mechs to the frontlines almost as good as APC + infantry. Mechs get more value with transports. Another situation where mechs can be viably used is maps where there is a strong side and weak side, as the mech is a very good defense unit.

[@YourFunkiness]

When I was a teenager, I talked my friend into a match where I'd take Sami and he'd get any CO he wanted, but I got to pick the map. I picked Switchback. A winding path through mountainous terrain that mechs could transverse several times faster than tanks. No airports or seaports. I built only indirects and mechs.

[@YourFunkiness]

Throwing mechs against neotanks is not as stupid as you might think.

[@ddt9292]

i use mechs as defense for my base or as a long time defense for properties, as when i retreat a tank to a property to get a enemy to attack it, i move my mech into the property and get profit from the hit.

[@TheEmperorGulcasa]

Mechs feel like either a defensive or a super map dependent tool unless you're sensei or something. A mech will arrive several cycles late to the front line unless there's heavy terrain obstructions, meaning by the time they are in combat they have spent several turns doing nothing and are now meeting higher cost units. Super small maps with a very short rush distance but heavy terrain can see them perform decently. But they just won't be where you need them to be in time unless the battle lines are against your door already or there are central bases you can take over. The slowly trundling mech ocean is funny though.

[@ElManReborn616]

Mechs can also basically be a discount one time artillery, be placed in a zone you want to guard and discouraged (or punish in fow) enemy aggression. This is very situational because of their movement, but some early game can make it viable

[@D2v0n]

@2:00 If you have good logistics like say Tcopters and APC's you can get them to the front quicker then just a tank. Also great at holdin' objectives

[@rattled6732]

Can’t wait for the medium tank episode

[@robertharris6092]

Cant wait for the tank episode.

[@davidmcgill1000]

Can't wait for the lander episode.

[@Masupups]

The challenge of utilizing the Mech's cost effectiveness is almost completely how you get them to the front. "Amateurs think tactics, experts think logistics." -Some common saying I heard

[@Rangaisia]

One thing worth noting is that Sami's indirects are just as good as anyone else's, and are also cheaper than their tank counterparts. Conversely, Grit either had no infantry penalty, or it wasn't any worse than the penalty he got for tanks, so Meches were pretty good choice for him generally. Indirects can be used to cover the meches, and that will make mech's low defense a lot less relevant. Even if the opponent gets a first strike on a mech, their likely more expensive unit will get blasted by indirects. This was in fact perfectly viable strat in a lot of base AW maps, which often had chokepoints and difficult terrain.

[@ShadowWolfTJC]

One last tip that I have for mech play is to hide them in forests, like you would with indirects. For direct-fire units, mechs are about as limited in what to attack as artillery are due to their painfully-slow movement speed. Edit: Actually, now that I'm thinking about this, what are the merits of using mechs in APCs instead of artillery for accompanying tank pushes for the purpose of punishing enemy tank attacks against the tanks near your mechs?

[@alex_zetsu]

The artillery would be cheaper, so even though both have about the same effect if the enemy tries to go for your tank with a ground unit, the Mech + APC put you behind in funds. If the enemy doesn't attack your tank, then the Mech just waits for his opportunity which might never come or come 3 turns later depending on your opponent (the latter almost certainly against the AI). If you did the artillery, then if the enemy doesn't attack at all you just in forward one square at a time until your vision gets to see the enemy and you get a glorious first strike with your tank. Or if the enemy has a medium tank, take an additional turn to inch closer (remember he can't see your artillery), and if he still doesn't attack then hit once with your artillery and follow up with your tank to come out ahead as long as it's not on a city. If the enemy comes with a battlecoptor, even a 4 HP one, you're in trouble either way. If all you wanted to do was protect your tank, the Mech + APC was inferior when he doesn't take the bait. On the other hand, if there's something the Mech could do once your tank did it's job, then it becomes viable again and protecting the tank was just a contingency.

[@jesusdavidramirezcueto9698]

Great video Mr. Mango, i agree on the idea that Mechs aren't Infantry replacements/upgrades like Neotanks are to Tanks (better in all aspects, not taking the cost into account of course) which speaks very well of Mech design and how well specialize in certain scenarios. Outside of some balance issues (numbers), i believe all units are well designed and differentiated in their roles, they can't make other units obsolete or outclassed.

[@SynergyGamingTV]

Geez... I recall a game you played not to long ago where you got very VERY good cost effective trades using Mechs with Adder... strange... why do I remember this... XD

[@TheBikeOnTheMoon]

I always think merch should have had 3 move to justify the x3 cost you pay for compared to infantry. But in Day of Ruin they get cost reduction to 2.5k and they do much more damage against medium tank and mega tank, so it's a nice balance

[@alex_zetsu]

I don't really like some changes in Days of Ruin even though it's objectively a more balanced game. I _like_ the concept of the second cheapest unit costing triple the cheapest unit. Doing more against Medium tanks was a nice change though.

[@rmzing]

I can see someone ferrying a mech quickly to contested ground using a transport, then hiding the mech in a forest as sort of a budget one-time-use artillery in the early game. Even better if the mech can take a mountain as it attacks, so it grants that vision before it inevitably falls.

[@Panzergraf]

I rarely build mechs as I find the opportunity cost to be too high in most cases. Next make a video on Tanks!

[@maxis_scott_engie_maximov_jr]

The main word I give for Mechs is "Reliability", Infantry may be quick on flat terrain, but they can't be reliable when it comes to assault or rough terrain due to their low firepower and real slow movement on rough terrain My main strategy with Mechs is to do a Mech+Artillery Sub-opening and what I call Mech Marching, basically just a huge stream of Mechs going in one cohesive line towards the enemy, it's not Mech spamming since I do just 1 line from 1 factory to still have fund surplus for heavy armaments aid

[@papersamurai00]

Outside a Sensei onslaught, I find in fog of war Mechs team up with indirects well. In woods their slower speed matches the vehicles, and in ambush they have power to work with. A good budget surprise.

[@Temporal94]

I think the reason why the bomber deals more damage to mechs than infantry is because since the mechs are carrying heavier equipment they're less capable of reacting to bombs falling on top of them (heavier load means that it takes them longer to find viable cover). It's some little details that might have real life precedent like the Missile unit having high view range since they're a SAM unit with radar or the Anti-Air being a foot soldier mulcher due to the success of the Soviet Shilka and other anti-aircraft put in anti-infantry roles.

[@gabrielobando7761]

Oozium episode when?

[@cynical_boy]

HECK YEAH BROTHER. Thanks for focusing so hard on these series!! Love'em

[@lexif.8609]

Love these unit analysis videos!

[@CtisGaming]

I'm waitin' on the air craft carrier episode. I know it's only for adv wars by web, but I'd love to hear about it.

[@Posby95]

I'd like to see an analysis of the APC. How to optimize movement and such.

[@owangejewice]

I really wanna see one of these episodes wind up being like 30 seconds long! One that focuses on the Piperunner maybe?

[@joejaboy]

As for the bombers dealing more damage to mechs than infantry, my theory is that the extra equipment makes them an easier target and/or the bombs trigger the explosives that the mechs carry.

[@phog7375]

I started recently to play AWBW and have never played any advance war gar before so I really like those video they help me

[@harrozsteven6095]

I was way too excited for this episode lol. Great series 💯

[@revivalfromruins]

The Armor Knights of the Advance Wars Universe

[@assault410]

"By far the slowest unit in the game." Infantry with 1 more move:

[@kingarthur3236]

That's 50% more movement, I don't think it's an exaggeration to say by far If you want to move like 12 spaces mechs are going to take a full two extra turns

[@josephgarcia8209]

Mechs can be situationally useful when dropped on a contested property, especially with the help of an APC/T-Copter. They have a bit better defense than Infantry, while still being relatively cheap fodder. Assuming both COs are 100/100, a Mech on a property with 3 defense stars will never be 2HKO'ed by an Infantry and Tank. An Infantry would always be 2HKO'ed. This could potentially deny a capture opportunity with a healthy unit adjacent to the Mech. If the attacker were to activate their CO Power and get the +10% firepower boost, like it is in AWBW (but not AW2), the Mech on a property can be 2HKO a bit more than 50% of the time.

[@alex_zetsu]

With 100/100 COs, I usually don't bother to attack a Mech on a city. Even if I have an Infantry, I'd rather shoot at a 2 HP Infantry than let my Infantry be 1 square away from his Mech on the city by attacking said Mech and taking counterattack damage. I might attack a Mech on a city with an Infantry, but often I'll be looking to see if I have better targets. The first ground direct unit to attack a Mech on a city just gets mauled. Against Sami and Sonja, I'm even more weary of doing so. In fact if I can only attack with one unit, I won't bother against their Mechs on cities, even if there are no other targets. It's just not worth the counterattack damage. If there isn't an enemy indirect I will be willing to send an infantry first to soften up a Mech and then follow up with a Recon, Mech, or Tank (usually the last one). It won't kill the Mech, but at least it becomes less effective and I spared the more expensive unit from most of the counterattack damage.

[@MrJknight3135]

I'd love to see some analysis of Days of Ruin units, the unique ones in that game are interesting to me, like the Anti-tank and such.

[@TheEmperorGulcasa]

The anti tank is an amazing last stand unit, as it doesn't take heavy damage from almost anything except indirect and bombers. But it's tire move screws it on any kind of offense as it's just too immobile and you'd be better off with a rocket. An area held by a mix of units with an anti tank there is a nightmare to take though, especially if it's sat on a property to heal what little chip damage infantry and the like do to it. Bikes are probably the most noteworthy inclusion, as they really ramp up the mobility of infantry. Of course they are bad on heavy terrain and you don't want to just make mono bikes as they cost as much as a mech. Still, they can get to the front faster than infantry a lot of the time, which is quite valuable. The duster is a good anti air unit. Does good damage to any air unit and even is decent against fighters if it gets the first hit. Also can pester ground units a bit if it ran out of stuff to do. Ultimately still a costly and niche unit that you have to play carefully with to avoid ever entering an AA's range. Still, makes anyone committing to copters really unhappy. The gunboat is a cheap anti ship and infantry transport unit. It can't carry bikes, but otherwise it's great for capping islands cheaply in sea maps. They do great damage vs any ship other than dived subs, but they have only one ammo, so to use them in combat you need to use them as just a supplementary unit, have several to cycle around or have some way to resupply them closer to the front. Flare is fairly specific. They are basically a tougher treaded version of a recon. But they act as an artillery like vision spotter in fog of war. They are a bit awkward due to their fire range being not that long and having to not move to fire a flair. but they light up hidden forests and cities, which can be clutch. Obvously fog of war only, but I don't know if they are that preferable to recons most of the time as the game also changed how vision works so that you can reveal anything you moved adjacent to that turn (allowing the high mobility recon and such to light up a path through any hidden locations). War tanks. Kind of in between a neotank and a megatank attributes. Way cheaper than a neo tank and less ammo starved compared to the megatank. A bit more resilient than a neotank, but a lot less than the megatank's comical levels. They are still very slow compared to medium tanks and tanks though. Since it still gets put through the meat grinder by any normal tank counter like indirect and bombers and such, it's not my favorite unit. They are still muuch cheaper that previous top of the line tanks though, at only 16k. Seaplanes are amazing and kill almost anything with ease. Just be sure to have some APCs with them or they run out of supplies very fast. The baseline Carrier is too expensive though. I think most of the new units other than the bike are neat but kind of niche. I think the balance change to older units had more impact.

[@dotapazappy]

My favourite unit, the mech! Sami is my favourite CO even though she's kinda braindead in her gameplans and I love it.

[@jasonsoliva6678]

It actually makes sense that Mechs would take more damage from bombers, because they're slower and weighed down by equipment, they can't spread out. But that just contradicts why they would be so fast on mountains, perhaps they carry mountain climbing gear along with their specialist weapons.

[@megarotom1590]

that one ds war room where you can get 6 com towers with Javier: have fun interrupting the hq cap or killing any of my mechs in the mountains

[@naverilllang]

A Lash mech on a mountain is a very happy thing

[@MrMarinus18]

1:20 I feel Advance wars was just designed and balanced around more enclosed maps with a lot more rough terrain. If you have a choke-point with mountains mechs become incredible strong as combined with an artillery they can completely shut it down.

[@alecciarosewater7438]

Days of Ruin has the motorcycle, same cost and always gets the first hit against a mech

[@DarknessDpa]

Now I am someone kind of new to Advance Wars tho I never exactly used them all too much even as a beginner because of how slow they are. Right now before finally seeing what AW2 has to offer, I decided to do some War Room battles for practice and fun against the AI and the only time I really used any mechs was the one battle against Kanbei with the two almost split areas and I went with Grit since there were mountains. I did have infantry kind of clog up the area near my HQ that Kanbei was going after but I also made some Mechs to march on the mountains to shoot at the Tanks Kanbei was sending my way.

[@rraune7515]

Aside from their use in difficult terrain, the Mech is more of a defensive unit imo. If you see an opponent mounting a push against one of your positions, you can zone/outtrade tanks with Mechs deployed there. If the enemy comes to them, 2 movement doesn't matter much and even if a tank gets a firststrike on a fresh Mech sitting on a base, it will get repaired back up to a respectable level on your turn, be able to move off the base and shoot on the tank again. Then you can deploy another Mech and still have paid less than your enemy did for their tank + the opportunity cost of moving it towards you over multiple turns.

[@TheSirCrown]

There was one mountain map that my friends used dispute it's large size... It mountains proved to be hard so there were allot of fun fights in the ranges as players pushed with mecs to try avoiding the main roads covered with tanks and rockets... Mecs we're the best way to win and capture base's just cuz you couldn't move though the stail mates

[@alex_zetsu]

Out of 90 past games where I've played Me + AI vs a friend VS Another AI (I'm not great, I only managed to win roughly 4/7 times in a 2 vs 1 vs 1) we've had a situation in 3 separate games where infantry ran out of rations with no Drake involved. In 2 games 3 infantry ran out of rations and one time 5 did. Oddly, zero times Mechs ran out of rations when Drake was not involved despite them having less rations. All of these situations used a larger than normal map.

[@ArchierounD]

Bombers deal 110% damage to infantry, not 105%.

[@morenove5882]

That’s why the days of rune balance the cost of both infantry and mech, in those you will see more mech then usual

[@Demokirby]

My guess of why Bombers do more to Mechs sounds very specific scenario you are dealing with a high mountains level and something to chip through mech spam. Very weird engagement, but I guess they wanted bombers to have a better guarantee of dislodging and blocking mechs in our imaginary crazy mountain pass level

[@whydoyougottahavthis]

As a longtime player of AW1 only, IMO mech's are extremely useful when used creatively, you outlined a few perfect examples! If you can get a copter flying mech's every two turns or so into a strategic location either outside the enemy's view or ability to react within several turns, you've planted Sami's pixelated combat boot firmly up the ass of the Ai lol but it's limited ammo is a serious issue to me considering they use them when defending too even if the target isn't worth it, usually in my case after defeating a target i.e. recon, fire once, defend once, you got a one shot johnny and a near 10/10 unit that's just a headache to me but at that point you're also correct in that it's done it's job it was cost effective, but population effective is important too, why damn transport copters can offload only troops and not supply to at least mechs and infantry is beyond me, wouldn't that make kinda sense? Also reflect you can transport ammo but not much fuel like IRL

[@whydoyougottahavthis]

Also dude I've always said helicopters are flying mech's in terms of damage output is that close to being right in terms of behind the scenes data?

[@Ace-UY]

1:33 i mean, mechs have what looks like quiet a big bazooka and typically bazooka's are heavy so it makes sense that mech in aw are slow since they gotta lug around that bazooka on their shoulder.

[@krullachief669]

Mechs travel not in packs, but in herds. You hear that? They do travel in herds.

[@theguardlorenzo5898]

Excelent video, still, one thing that i would like to point out, which isnt related to the gameplay directly, its own well implemented are mechs implemented as a reference to the IRL units. Mechaniced infantry are units that are meant to work using a lot of transport vehicles so they can keep up with armored divisions and give them infantry support, in game, they represent this by making transports almost a must for said units to be used, and not only that, but also making them excelent "guard" units as mangs pointed out, and they sometimes have asigned enginner vehicles such as bridgetrowers to help in movility tasks, such as crossing rivers and mountains, tho this last one is not as common. I think they kinda nailed their representation ingame.

[@ziljin]

AI sensei Mech Spam in War Room map Mials Hope is a nightmare

[@BusterBuizel]

Hey Mangs, how do you think Anti Air Infantry would work with Stinger missiles or other man portable air defense launchers?

[@arrowb.8438]

ooh, thatd be super interesting, maybe like 5k, but deals really good damage to copters

[@davidcaddell9290]

The only reason i could see why mechs take more damage from bombers would be due to sympathetic detonation.

[@xmlash234]

I've always seen mechs as Marines/Paratroopers. If you can sow enough of them in a certain area, you can slow down or blunt an enemy advance. If you can land them first, they can also make a tough unit to dislodge. Of course, this assumes you build enough transports and mechs to make them effective and that they can get to where they need to go

[@soulhoney1227]

*Mech is know as mechanized unit* ' They are humans not robots'

[@iranoutofideasforausernam1703]

Interestingly, mechanized infantry in real life refers more to APCs (or IFVs, Infantry Fighting Vehicles, which don't really have an AW equivalent) carrying mech units than to the mech units themselves. The vehicles enable much more capacity for carrying equipment and greater mobility as opposed to simply traveling on foot. Some further distinguish into mechanized infantry being just the IFV crew and APC crews being armored infantry. Generally, the heavier anti-vehicle weapons are mounted on the vehicle itself rather than being carried by hand. Of course, this all just means Advance Wars mechs bear no resemblance to their real life counterparts.

[@LeoMidori]

@@iranoutofideasforausernam1703 You're definitely right, somehow Wars World has some units curiously stuck in a WWII mindset of combat with the Mech and APC. It always struck me as just a bit weird the APC has no weapon to speak of, even relatively early mechanized infantry squad vehicles had at least a machine gun.

[@vita2831]

I really enjoy this channel.

[@tylerandrews4375]

Those mechs in the thumbnail are gonna learn what backblast is real quickly

[@suddenllybah]

I'd say that mechs do not trade good with infantry. even with first strike, you lost 2 health to take 6 infantry health. and 2 mech health costs the same amount as 6 infantry health.

[@suddenllybah]

I think it's interesting to think about 3 mechs vs 2 infantry and a single tank. same money and base turn cost. However, infantry are more mobile on plains and roads, (50% more move) and tanks have 3x the move. which makes it a lot easier to get first strikes/big counter attacks using a bait unit. (that is, if your opponent gets the first attack with 1 unit but you can get 2 full health counter attacks, you will generally win in roughly 50% damage between all units involved.

[@michaelnatanael3360]

A lil' bit of correction here Mechs actually take slightly less damage from indirects compared to Infantries. Artillery -> Mechs (85%) Artillery -> Infantry (90%) Rockets -> Mechs (90%) Rockets -> Infantry (95%) So you can one-shot Infantry with Rockets if you're lucky, but Rockets cannot one-shot Mechs.

[@GreyWolfLeaderTW]

I suspect that the cons mentioned her about Mechs are why Intelligent Systems reduced their price to 2,500G in Days of Ruin, to make them a little more viable/cost-effective and encourage their usage more frequently.

[@SheezyBites]

The problem with mechs has never been cost effectiveness though, they almost always do more value damage than they take. The problem is their opportunity cost or mobility. Fix either of those and you've got a much better unit, but without it it's still a worse option than basically any other action, it's just slightly less disruptive if you're saving up for something. I don't know how you'd fix the opportunity cost, at least without same pretty radical special or new rules (I guess a barracks property which can only make infantry units would make sense?), so to me the obvious answer to making them more usable is to learn into the mechanical infantry aspect and let them keep their action when unloading from a transport.

[@LeoMidori]

They also have to compete with Bikes, and Bikes are their own beast entirely.

[@IntrepidMercenary]

It would be nice to have a neotank version of infantry like the same movement of infantry but with the firepower and move cost of mechs for 5000 G.

[@CtisGaming]

Tiny Metal is an adv wars like game with that unit. They're called a spec ops and have 6 movement. The 5000 cost infantry is instead a sniper that's an indirect with 0 minimum range that can counter attack, but can't target vehicles.

[@ddt9292]

that would be broken with sami and sensei, imagine victory march with those or airbone assault that spawns those.

[@armorbearer9702]

So something similar to motorbikes in Days of Ruin?

[@rraune7515]

You know, they nearly did that. They mounted the Bazooka into a metal frame and the MG on top, put everything on chains and priced it at 7.000G. They called it a "light tank" in the game for some reason, not sure what's up with that

[@rubricance9617]

@@CtisGaming in tiny metal spec ops have move of 4 not 6 only one more than regular infantry. that said its still the same as a light tank so its not insubstantial. they also have higher survivability but unlike a mech they dont have good anti vehicle firepower. and when they cost as much as a tank and a regular infantry its tough to justify the cost when theres so many cheaper counters to them and the cost takes away from your main army. at least mechs in tiny metal can use their rockets on copters. makes them good as an anti bcopter role.

[@V0ID115]

Advance wars remain a game that prioritizes offense, which makes sense given its context, but I feel the need to point out (like probably others already did before me) that Missiles and Mechs are not bad units, but they are DEFENSIVE units. A common trend is that less popular units are usually the ones which perform the best on defensive roles. Mechs have terrible mobility, which cripple their offensive potential, alongside their poor survivability and inability to attack anything without taking some form of retaliation. However, mechs cost 3000 can very much lock down certain areas with their presence. Sure, spending 2 bases when you could be building more expensive units may not be that interesting, but consider that 2 mechs (6000) can in one turn dismantle a tank (7000). Even if they don't kill, you're still spending less funds to discourage enemies from approaching. Mechs are more often than not thorn walls. You don't need to worry about them unless you start to consider approaching them. In which case if you're not careful, you'll get hurt big time.

[@epicninja2378]

On the subject of mechs attacking heavier tanks (not sure about megatanks) being cost effective if they get hit enough you can skip straight to the cost effective shots if you first slam it with an indirect. Grit becomes a master magician with his trick of making heavy tanks disappear.

[@TheAzureNightmare]

You know what we need? An IFV Unit. Maybe as an optional replacement for the Light Tank, that costs 1000 more.

[@lancelindlelee7256]

One comparison: 1 T Copter and 3 Mechs is 14000G, same as 2 tanks. Same fund value but takes 1 more base to produce. You get about 50% more units at the cost of mobility. (Counting Mech and Tank to be about equal in damage, not counting the T Copter as a unit)

[@alex_zetsu]

A few thoughts. I think Mangs is overstating the problem that Mech spamming is inefficient use of the bases. Infantry spam pretty much has the same problem. I wouldn't open the game with Mechs, but midgame building Tank + Mech + Mech isn't that much worse than Tank + Recon + Infantry in a turn. But Mech + Mech + Mech is often wrong unless you're saving for a Neotank and you happen to have an APC to start ferrying guys forward (not produced the APC 3 turns ago because you wanted to Mech spam later, but produced it for something and it did its job). And Infantry + Infantry + Infantry while exellent on the first three turns, if you're doing it on turn 15 means you're either saving for something expensive or just doing something wrong. The problem of being the slowest unit in the game is a weakness I've started to realize overtime and I think this is the real limiting problem for them. I mentioned before I might be willing to interrupt a cap by a Sami or Sonja Mech if I can attack first with an infantry and then follow up with a Recon, Tank, or Mech, but I won't attack one of their Mechs on cities if I have only one unit that can attack but take counterattack damage from the Mech, not even using an infantry to interrupt a cap is worth it in my opinion. However, if I see one of them capping a city with a Mech, I feel like I've won even if I don't dare interrupt (except maybe with a bomber or indirect). Until the city is captured, I only have to not be next to that city instead of being weary of anything within 3 tiles of the Mech. And the other guy wasted a lot of time just getting the Mech there. Not even Sami doing that is efficient for her, it would have been better for her to use infantry instead. I actually think attacking a Medium tank with a Mech isn't such a bad idea, assuming there was no other unit for the Mech to attack. Often times there will be something else to attack and therefore something much better to do, but taking a little bite out of it in exchange for getting the Mech beaten up isn't too bad. In fact I'd rather attack a Medium tank on roads with a Mech than attacking an enemy Mech or Recon stationed in a city. Getting the first strike on a Medium tank happens a bit in fog of war, but oddly I rarely get to do this to Neotanks even though both have the same short vision. And if an enemy put his Medium tank on a road next to one of his own cities, it's a shot I'm willing to take over attacking enemy Mechs and Recons. Attacking a Medium tank on roads with 3 or 4 Mechs is glorious but doesn't happen a lot. I often do find that I can attack one with 2 Mechs and a regular Tank, sometimes due to it being trapped other times because it's movement put it just short of my Mechs. If one of the Mechs can attack from a city or mountain and the tank can attack from anything with any defensive stars, even plains, I think this is actually a good engagement if your units can't attack enemy indirects. The first Mech goes to attack the Medium tank and the city or mountain will give it some protection. The next one takes a bit more bite out of the enemy, it'd be nice if there was defensive terrain but even a road vs road situation this isn't so bad. The tank (it can just as well be a Mech, but happens more often with tanks since they are mobile) then moves in and takes a third shot at the Medium tank. While attacking a Medium tank with a Tank will normally result in than tank being mauled and ineffective, by the third time its hit, the Tank will have most of its HP left. Do some Orange Star vs Yellow Comment animations for some of the future videos.

[@alexstewart9592]

If md tank + mech + mech exactly spends your income, you could instead take md tank + infantry + infantry + 4000G in bank, in order to get two turns of md tank + tank + infantry, which costs 2000G more than md tank + mech + mech. And if your income is below that point going md tank + infantry + infantry gets you ahead on getting your next Md tank, or lets you sustain Md Tank production for longer.

[@KGafterdark]

Like you said. I'd like to add that I think mechs are moreso defensive units than they are offensive ones, being great at fortifying places where you have superior infantry and overall unit count/offensive presence (being able to beat them in infantry skirmishes is one of the most important factors, considering you don't want them to ever attack your open mech train with infantry). If you and your opponents are already zoning each other out with vehicles, and you guys are already trying to inch closer to one another and trying to break each other's infantry walls, you might as well go with the more cost-effective option that's going be moving as much as your tanks would. On maps like a hope forelorn on awbw, having an infantry+mech wall pretty much block off your opponents weak side or forcing them to build an expensive unit on their weak side is EXTREMELY cost effective.

[@isenokami7810]

Just started playing AW myself, and thought this would be a particularly important episode for me. Then you gave that opening speech, and realized I had different problems with these guys. Long story short: even just starting, my personal experience lets me understand exactly why high tier comp players don’t use them as much. The extra firepower is great, but I wasn’t using infantry for battle anyway, so that’s not as useful for me. That leaves the pitiful move range holding them back. Given the choice between the two, I found myself going infantry over mechs, just from my own preference. Didn’t know about their better terrain movement, though, that’s pretty useful to know.

[@kristiandahl1310]

Looking forward to the battleshiop break down eventually. Just feels like you have the power whenever you build one.. then realize not worth the funds due to no anti air defense and needs a cruiser escort for subs.

[@projectpitchfork860]

I never understood why they didn't name Mechs AT Infantry (because mechanized infantry is infantry that is transported by APCs or IFVs) and just made it an infantry, that can fire on tanks but doesn't deal the same damage as a tank and thus can only cost 2000 funds and has 3 movements.

[@thebladeofchaos]

Personally I've taken to believing that they do have mechanised elements with them. Light vehicles (not so much recon but probably more like a Universal Carrier) that enable them to just ignore terrain in most cases (except mountain in snow of course) and are the reason why they do more damage with their machine gun (it's firing from off screen) Calling it AT infantry is a bit iffy because that implies 'don't fight infantry'. I'd personally go with 'Commandos'. Go in, do damage, get out. don't stick around and get your unit killed and it can punch way above it's weight money wise

[@projectpitchfork860]

@@thebladeofchaos Vehicles would only slow them down in terrain. Infantry that's specialised in fighting in rough terrain is called light infantry.

[@projectpitchfork860]

@@thebladeofchaos They aren't commandos. Commandos are irregular fighting forces, operating behind enemy lines. It also wouldn't make any sense that they have anti tank weaponry. Infantry with anti tank weaponry is simply called anti tank infantry. Just like an anti air is still called an anti air.

[@projectpitchfork860]

@@thebladeofchaos It also wouldn't make sense for them to be slower.

[@TheLeadElite]

I feel like mechs are a bit better in days of ruin due to the veterancy system and their lower cost. At least that's my experience from playing the war room maps. There are a lot of mountain heavy maps in that one though. Bikes cost the same and are better on more open maps though.

[@Nirual86]

oddly enough I felt like the mechs were also weaker in Days of Ruin even though looking over their stats the only real nerf they got was a 10% hit against anti-air, and they actually have better defenses against bigger tanks (not even the War Tank can reliably one-shot them) The lower cost also doesn't really make a big difference outside of the first couple of turns because taking up spots in the factory production queue is still the bigger factor. Also, the veterancy system is a pretty big reason why mech spam is far less effective. Can't be too reckless with them or your enemy ends up with a lot of veteran units.