Advanced Climbing Anchors: Efficient 3 Piece Systems

[@logiconabstractions6596]

Is there a link to the blog post about equalization?

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

Yes there is! You'll find info on equalization, shock loading, and a few other topics on our most recent blog post: expeditiontraining.org/blog/

[@CharlieBrownThe3rd]

I can't access the blog post. I get an error 1020 access denied message. Is there a link that works? Very interested in this topic as my grieves and I have had many discussions about sliding systems for trad anchors!

[@cassiusonyx6858]

i guess im asking randomly but does anybody know of a tool to get back into an instagram account..? I was dumb forgot my account password. I would love any tips you can give me

[@fabianmalcolm6511]

@Cassius Onyx instablaster =)

[@cassiusonyx6858]

@Fabian Malcolm Thanks for your reply. I got to the site on google and im waiting for the hacking stuff atm. I see it takes a while so I will get back to you later with my results.

[@haphaeu]

quads are only quick to set-up if you're lucky and don't have to re-adjust the position of the limiting knots. to really reduce extension to a minimum you need those limiting knots to be as close together as possible, then you end up having to adjust them every time... that's why I don't bother with quads and go for the typical w set-up, which all taken in consideration is super good enough and the fastest to do and undo...

[@mitchellbaker4806]

180cm is the secret for quads.

[@somanayr]

At around 4:00, is it a concern that all of the pieces use the same flake? If that flake blows, all 3 pieces could go too

[@maxe2820]

Great video, but lmao 4:50 "you're gone"... The delivery was so deep, this guy needs to become an actor

[@johngo6283]

The V clove is GREAT! Never seen that one before.

[@homefront3162]

For years I have wanted to climb, I spent my life climbing telephone poles with no "safety". I am fascinated with rigging for climbing and love all,these videos. thanks

[@fragletemmer]

Good stuff. I will also give a shout out to the 'clove hitch anchor', not often seen but has become my go to.

[@drclimb]

Great video thanks! Be very cautious when loading single strands of a high tensile knotted material as done with the V-clove. Most recent analysis has shown that they can break (see article about sling breaks in bergundsteigen, #107)

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

Thanks for the reference. It's nice to see comments with data.

[@DeShark88]

Bergundsteigen #107 details a fall factor 2 fall, onto 5.5mm cord which was tied directly into the lugs of two ice screws. It's worth highlighting the potential dangers, but I would also say that the ice screw lugs are significantly sharper than a typical carabiner, which means that the forces that they can take is much lower. 5.5mm cord is also on the skinny side. The testing done in the report showed that the force held by the single thread was 5.7kN for the ice screw and 8.5 kN for the carabiner. So the carabiner can take 50% more force. A FF-2 fall is not all that common (sure it can happen, but it's always super dangerous even if your anchor survives). Using thicker cord, using carabiners, using a "jesus piece" to avoid FF-2 falls, all will mitigate the dangers of tying a knot in a single strand. As such, I wouldn't hesitate to use this configuration when climbing, but it is good to know the limitations, so I appreciate your comment highlighting this report!

[@OhMiggeee]

Is it better to attach your dynamic PAS on your belay loop like shown or in your tie in points?

[@juanmartiniglesias9894]

Hi there! Really interesting and useful video. Thanks! I have a question though, why I don't ser the use of a dinamic rope instead of a dyneema or nylon? Will a dinamic rope absorb part of a shock? Are there cons that I can't see?

[@lynettereid1345]

A question about the third anchor. I’ve seen the same setup in other videos but I wonder if the use of the sliding x is optimal. If one of the two left pieces fail, the entire load goes to the right-it’s not going to be shared by two pieces, because the extensibility of the sliding x is beyond the knot on the quad. Couldn’t you make that a fixed point with a knot and still have the quad making it multidirectional?

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

Thanks for the thoughtful comment. Yes, you can certainly do that. However, I'm rarely in a situation where I'm worried about a piece *actually* failing. If that's a possibility, then I might use a quad where I used the sliding x, two quads total. As we highlighted in the blog that accompanies this video, if you have pieces that are marginal, the quad is the best way to distribute the load as close to evenly as you can get, though I still wouldn't bet on it being equalized (that concept is also covered in the blog). Thanks again!

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

Hmm, to which anchor type are you referring to and what's the context? The second carabiner might be better but I'm not sure what type of anchor or situation we're talking about here.

[@z1522]

@@sietschoolforinternational5234 As noted earlier, this logic seems backwards. If one's entire anchor is that sketchy, it is likely impossible to judge which is better or worse, and creating as close to equal distribution, but from independently isolated pieces, may not form perfectly equal loading - but minimizes significant shock loading the remaining pieces, should one or more fail, a scenario far more likely to result in total anchor collapse if all are really that poor. At that point, opening one's mind to every option, needs consideration - from looping the rope down to the last decent pro, having the second re-anchor and belay from there, moving up or across to reach more anchor potential, placing ten pieces together, etc. I worry that all the "Guide Endorsed" methods have actually stifled the resourcefulness of new trad climbers in their learning path. I may not be fast or efficient, but I'm still alive after 54 years climbing, including aid soloing Half Dome clean, pre-Friends.

[@z1522]

(revised)At 2:30, using a nylon/dynamic cord and not a static one, the small differences in pre-equalization would be quickly taken up by stretch under a significant load - effectively equalizing, with small disparities. At 7:20, NEVER create a tie-in with static slings only; if you move up to jigger with a piece, and slip, that can create a factor 2 impact jeopardizing everything including your harness loop. Think 1) static slings = cables; 2) always connect yourself to the anchor with some dynamic intermediate, length of lead rope or nylon, never Dyneema. Overthinking "sliding equalization" notions is not borne out in real scenarios, generally. Distributing load between separately isolated anchors is usually fine, as shifting, should one fail, results in a penduluming force that is actually very low, compared to a shock onto a couple feet of slack sling as it redistributes everything. The "shelf" concept seems confusing, and needless, versus adding a second locking biner to the Master point for belaying, etc. Of course, the set-up optimizes belaying a second, but to swing leads an upward pull anchor has to be considered, complicating the master point idea.

[@KillroyX99]

Great anchor ideas.

[@automatc415]

Everyone read John longs climbing anchors book! Will change your life and show you how to be significantly safer.

[@curvenut]

Could you elaborate your thought on the equalette ?

[@sarahshiplee5719]

In your quad with a magic x, could you not make this better by putting load limiting knots in the sling with the magic X and also by moving your load limiting knots closer together on the quad so that there is less extension should a piece fail and therefore less force applied in the case that it does fail? Particularly the limiting knot on the right side of the quad doesn't seem like it needs to be that high.

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

Sarah, you can put in the load-limiting knots but as long as there's a dynamic component in the system i.e. a rope, it doesn't do you any good if a piece fails. That's because an EXTRA drop of 5-10cm doesn't create enough extra force to make much of a difference. I rarely pay attention to how far the load limiting knots are in my quad because my pieces are generally pretty bomber. Maybe if I'm using questionable ice screws, snow anchors, or something similar, then I'll pay attention to where the knots are.

[@pascaljutras178]

does 15 inches of dynamic rope dissipate enough energy ?

[@baseballdipper111]

Why shouldn’t you leave the knots in your cordelette anchor permanently? (Seen at 7:56)

[@MangoBums]

you only need one screw gate carabiner on the anchor point? or would two opposing be better

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

When you're hanging at the anchor one locker is standard, when TRing, two is standard...but it's all situational!

[@isaacbernstein4908]

For your 3rd example of the sliding X anchor, the two piece component has a masterpoint, meaning that it is a critical junction. From my understanding, that should be a locker. Which in the end ups the gear count, but instead of using two slings and a locker, you could just make a 3 point quad and save material. Also, if concerned about whether or not the two piece component pieces blow, you may want to consider tying limiter knots, otherwise all of you weight gets loaded onto the "strongest" piece and you end up shock loading the other piece. Lastly, I know that this video is demonstration for different practices used in the field, and I understand that there aren't necessarily "set standards" about where you need lockers and whatnot. Just some things that popped into my head as I was watching. Great video though, I've never seen the V Clove before, definitely using that one!

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

Isaac, Yes, quite often you'd put a locker on the sliding-x, but it's very situational. I usually use a non-locker if I'm at the belay and able to monitor it. I use a locker if I'm not able to monitor it, ie in a TR setup. And yes, you can make a 3 piece quad but sometimes you don't have enough material to reach all the pieces and it's generally slower to rig, especially if you've already got your quad tied together, which I usually do. That would require untying it and retying it.

[@torino.carlitos]

hi nice video really useful, in the anchor "w", the material is kevlar? The anchor, what dimensions does it have?

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

It's made of tech cord, similar to dyneema, 5.5mm is rated to about 20kn. It's 6 meters long.

[@alecbackhus129]

Is there any reason I couldn't use two 7mm nylon cordelettes to build the last anchor. Is it crucial the materials be static? Or is it alright to use a dynamic cord.

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

Dynamic 7mm is great, just a bit heavy, so it depends if that's a concern for your route.

[@paulsommer1203]

Hi. Great Video. I guess Using a shelf for placing your rappeling device a.s.o. is very Common, but still i dont See The big Advantage, except having a more organised anchor. I mean that in Case of emergency, Bad weather etc i'd fear to Take The wrong shelf.... So i'd prefer to Put everything in The Central Point.... Or do i miss Something ... Best from Austria!

[@aleksei-19-ptru]

Hello again! So I continue to translate this awesome material! I have met a problem with expression "close to the bar tack" Josh said this when he was putting a clove hitch in the first piece of the V-Clove. What does it mean - "bar tack"??

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

That's the part where the loop is sewn together.

[@testboga5991]

Very helpful! Thanks, guys!

[@Sendboi]

On the quad anchor isn't there two points of extension? If the right blows like you showed there's extension but even more on the sliding x side, if that blows you get extension there and extension at the master point. Why even do a sliding x? It's already pre equalized at the master point? Wouldn't it make more sense to add an over hand to avoid shock loading the left side of one point fails?

[@windriver2363]

For the "W" anchor configuration, you appear to be using 6mm nylon accessory cord. Is that diameter sufficient for anchor building, or should something stronger be used?

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

Generally it's best to use 7mm perlon or 5.5mm tech cord (similar to Dyneema). We used the later in the video.

[@curvenut]

Question about non locking biners used on the protections. Since you are not using locking biners on the protections in the video , is it officially an accepted way of building anchor ? IMHO , it is an acceptable way to build TRAD anchor only since on trad anchors climbers are near of the anchor and can immediatly see if something wrong. As opposed to top rope anchor that need to be with locking biners since it is left alone. note: BTW, I half the times used not locking biners to build my trad anchors but friends sometines freak out.

[@jamescook4682]

Great video! Though I have to ask, what karabiners are you using in this video?

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

James Cook We used the Petzl Ange and the Sm’D Twistlock.

[@KillroyX99]

I would like to see drop tests on 1.5 feet of dynamic PAS. Any material difference to using stiff dyneema sling?

[@kilpatjr]

Yes! Short falls onto static vs dynamic slings, ropes, and manufactured personal anchors have definitely been tested. You can find them with a little Googling; here's a pretty representative one from BD: www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_US/stories/experience-story-qc-lab-personal-anchor-systems-explained/ Spoiler: dyneema generates something like twice as much force as nylon, which generates about twice as much as a dynamic rope in a factor 1 fall (i.e., you fall the length of your attachment). The usual disclaimers about how tests don't represent the real world apply, but I think the clear message is that you and an anchor you're directly attached to are a lot more likely to be damaged in a short fall if you're attached using something without a tendency to stretch. (Caution, I am a random person on the internet not affiliated with SIET).

[@tomlitton80]

What is climbing reason why they dont use locking carabenas on the anchor attachments too?

[@dk2428]

Excellent video!!!

[@eddenton9107]

On the last anchor maybe adjusting the knots closer together once you figure out the equalization spot. A 2ft pc of dynamic rope probably wont have much more shock absorption as a static sling or rope.

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

This still being debated. For now, as long as there's a rope or dynamic PAS in the system, there's no need to put the knots close to the master-point.

[@marioreptschik7301]

Why not clip the belay advice in the master point together with the self security?

[@paddyoneill3243]

Hi guys in the UK it is normal to build a 3 piece system that can be equalised using only your rope which is also dynamic clipping your belay into the loop of your fig 8 on your harness each piece of gear is independent there is no slip and 2 of your three pieces can fail... That being said what is the goal of using a sling set up?? When you have a shortage of rope? Or for a system which you can escape easily from?

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

The best reason to use slings in the anchor is that anyone can clip in or out of the system easily. If you use your rope it makes it difficult to lead the next pitch.

[@PB-sk9jn]

The UK approach you describe only really works nicely if you are swapping leads from pitch to pitch. Otherwise you end up replicating your anchor build when the second arrives. I learned in UK, and became a cordalette convert after a few months in California (Santa Barbara, Tahquitz, Malibu, went up to Squamish for a week too). Climbing Anchors by John Long is a really good book. John really popularised the cordalette, bring it from Big Wall fraternity. www.amazon.com/John-Long-Climbing-Anchors-6-2-2013/dp/B00HTJWRFQ/ref=sr_1_2?gclid=Cj0KCQiAw4jvBRCJARIsAHYewPP9iity3xaC5WNClAyC7TOzA1nbQXfwXKi_6mHvs6DONG07v1vvHvAaApxIEALw_wcB&hvadid=174212719106&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=1023437&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=e&hvrand=1079984055422123757&hvtargid=kwd-2721564094&hydadcr=24628_9648893&keywords=climbing+anchors+john+long&qid=1575118128&sr=8-2 There is something to learn from climbing in a country used to seriously big walls. Personally, I would typically use self equalising on multi-bolt anchors, as the risk of shock loading on trad placements is real. The video didn't show the single sling based 3 way self equaliser - like a W with two twists in the sling. Why? A UK trad bible is : www.amazon.co.uk/Handbook-Climbing-Allen-Fyffe/dp/0720720540/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=the+handbook+of+rock+climbing&qid=1575118041&sr=8-6 Open minds, with healthy critical thinking are good.

[@davehause8571]

Oh snap, 'sling craft'. Artisinal Slinging.

[@robmckennie4203]

what's the significance of the shelf? why not just clip into the loop below the knot?

[@08Shade80]

It helps to organize things. If everything is clipped into the same spot it gets very cluttered quickly

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

yup, what SurGabe said is my reasoning as well. I gave a more detailed answer below in the comments.

[@robmckennie4203]

That makes sense

[@aleksei-19-ptru]

In the video Marisol said about magic X or sliding axe. Am I right? Sliding axe means sliding ice axe. Or is there another definition?

[@08Shade80]

Sliding X not sliding axe haha

[@oliverlewis960]

I’m curious why you would choose to belay off of a shelf instead of a masterpoint does anyone have an answer as to why

[@randomclimber]

Management reasons: keeping things tidier, therefore easier to manouver.

[@oliverlewis960]

Interesting I could definitely see that being a feasible reason. Thanks!

[@namelastname2449]

Great video

[@CookieMonsteeerrr]

what is the name of the node used to connect the rope tie at 1:48?

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

Figure eight

[@rhocairn9433]

Nice video, concise and informative, thank you! For the quad anchor, you list as a con that the shelf isn't as user-friendly, but it looks to me like it doesn't have any shelf at all (at least, not one that's equalized, you pick the branch to give the full weight of whatever's clipped into the shelf). Am I missing something?

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

Gabriel, if I'm using 2 reliable bolts for my anchor I often clip my Reverso to one of the loops closest to the bolt. I think that's what you referred to as a "branch?" In that case I'm using a redundant but not equalized shelf. If you need a more equalized shelf, you can clip both loops but then it's a bit of a cluster.

[@davidschell7515]

This page seems to help. Looks like splitting the Quad is an option! half and half maybe? basically that is two mater points.... but maybe less attractive the smaller the cord diameter..... I suppose a second sling used in the system is also a good way to go! make a second master point entirely. americanalpineclub.org/resources-blog/2016/6/27/the-masterpoint-the-shelf-the-components-anchor-anatomy-in-action

[@davidschell7515]

​@@sietschoolforinternational5234 why not just add in a second carabiner into the master point and make a second point... ? is there a problem with this? seems like it may be better than the potential (extra) extension.... which could be drastically bigger in some rigs.

[@mariecharles601]

Regarding the use of an «edk» to close up a cordelette loop. «Pros»; -easier to untie to access full lenght of cordelette, - in your demo...by putting a clove hitch just above it and putting a knot below it to create a master point...the strand with the «edk» is isolated against failure, «Cons»; -if clear instructions are not given, this could be ( and has been) used in inproper set ups.... I have seen numerous vtread cordelette tied in this fashion with only a few inches of tails .... some even use it on 1 inch webbing loops (again wtith only a few inches of tails coming out of the knot) and not «isolating» it against failure!!!.... I have seen prusik loops closed up with an «edk»!!! Using the «EDK» to link 2 rappel ropes is fine by me... with at least 30cm of tails (I prefer to add a second knot to slow the slipping has recommended by Andy Kirkpatrick in his article ; the ultimate abseil knot). I dont even have a problem with the use of it in a 3 legged anchors (especially if the «edk» is isolated). Just know that ENSA testing shows and concludes that this knot should NOT be used on cordelettes of any kind.... even with 30 cm of tails. A simple caption /notice in your video regarding the limits of this knot to close up loops might be a good idea. Charles / rock and ice instructor

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

Thanks for the thoughtful comments! I fully agree that the EDK can be used incorrectly, especially when there's not enough tail. I'm a big fan of it for my cordalette because it makes it easier to untie when needed. I'm aware of the ENSA tests. However, they used very slippery cord (I believe it was Gemini cord?). We've done loads of testing at Petzl and found that on most cordalettes, the knot doesn't role until you've put very high loads on it. With that being said, I think your last point is a great one- we should do a separate vid just on the pro's/cons of the EDK! Thanks again, Josh

[@Matt_Jones675]

Why no limiter knots on the sliding X? Seems like a potentially dangerous choice.

[@AMentorway4u]

Why do you not use 3.seperate slings incase on breaks ?

[@aviduke]

A 240cm sling gives more versitility to equalise the gear and adjust the direction of the master point.

[@johngo6283]

GREAT video series, thanks for posting them, Subscribed!

[@cyclingnerddelux698]

Outstanding video!!

[@simonandrewsphotography8157]

Great video, well explained!

[@herpfar7651]

Additional force into the system by a blowing piece (cuz of a sliding x set up) is more than questionable. Wouldn't rely too much on the dynamic component called e.g. Petzl adjust.

[@brycemullin2370]

I feel like it would be better to tie off the sliding x for the last anchor, if one of those pieces fail you're gonna get a nice shock load

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

As long as there's a dynamic component in the system (ie a rope, dynamic PAS, etc) the 'shock load' adds a negligible load. Redundancy with the sliding x is the biggest issue.

[@brycemullin2370]

@@sietschoolforinternational5234 that makes sense, thanks for the reply!

[@1Molehill]

If your carrying a cordelette, it's just carrying extra equipment to do a job that can be done using all the other standard kit you have on the route. It's extra weight & bulk which slows you down.

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

I generally agree, I don't carry one very often, however, there's some anchors that demand a big ol' cordalette.

[@aleksei-19-ptru]

Okay, I just want to know. Maybe someone will take me a defenition. In this video Marisol talked about a redundant shelf in the W anchor. So it's difficult for me to translate this into Russian. So Can I say that it's another point, another opportunity to fix the rope?

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

Yeah, that makes sense, you just need to keep a locker in the master-point so the shelf doesn't role off the end of the cord.

[@dfjdskf9234j4fisd]

That second anchor is DEADLY. DMM did a shock test on knotted dynema and it can break from just a factor 2 fall. It’s better to knot nylon since it has more give. If you disagree watch DMM’s testing on dyneema.

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

The DMM videos left out a significant amount of detail, most notably, a system with dynamic components. If you are using a rope in your system, that will serve as your dynamic component, and it doesn't matter if you use dyneema or a steel cable, the rope will create a dynamic system. Okay, maybe a steel cable isn't a good idea, but dyneema is! There's been plenty of testing that demonstrates that knots are just fine in dyneema and Petzl has a number of tutorials on their website that demonstrate using knotted dyneema in anchors. www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Multi-pitch-climbing On top of that, EVERY certified guide I've ever worked with uses knotted dyneema in their anchors. It's the industry standard, the DMM videos were just single data points that didn't take into account practical application in the field.

[@dfjdskf9234j4fisd]

SIET, School for International Expedition Training thanks for the response!! Yeah if there’s a dynamic feature in the system it’s safe true. But I wouldn’t use knotted dyneema for a PAS, thank you for the clarification. I guess DMMs video just freaked me out

[@SketchySam123]

I agree with Kyle that the some of the anchors depicted here are dangerous, however for a slightly different reason. The relevant metric should not be the fall factor but rather ultimate breaking strength. Dyneema in a loop is rated to 22kn. When you tie into a single strand instead of the loop, you halve the breaking strength to 11kn. It’s important to note that a clove hitch reduces the strength of the material by about 50%. So tying that single dyneema strand into the piece with a clove hitch further reduces the breaking another 50% to 5.5kN. It’s even worse with 6mm perlon, which has a single strand breaking strength of 7.5kN, which is reduced to 3.75kN when tying in with a clove hitch. Cams generally break at 10-14kN so this tying in with a single strand clove hitch puts an unnecessarily weak link in the chain. It is quite possible to put a 3.75-5.5kN load on an anchor in the event of a fall, even with a dynamic rope. It’s true that other pieces in the anchor may share the load, but “equalized” anchors are rarely perfectly equalized so it’s possible that on piece can take the full load. I reviewed the Petzl literature and I did find instances of Petzl recommending putting an overhand knot into a dyneema loop (two strands). Quick calculations show this has a breaking strength of about 18kN, which seems to be more than enough. However, nowhere in the Petzl literature did I find the recommendation to put a clove hitch knot into a single strand of dyneema, which, by my calculations, can fail at 5.5kN. Further, I think physics and empirical evidence (e.g. break tests), rather than widespread usage, should be the arbiter of whether a particular technique is sound. Only a few decades ago, rock damaging pitons were the standard on classic free-routes. Not to mention swami belts, hip belays, and sticht plates. Also - a distinction should be made with clove hitching into a piece with the climbing rope versus a single strand of dyneema. Climbing rope is designed to be used in a single strand and thus has a single strand breaking strength about about 20kN. However, climbing dyneema is designed to be used in a loop and thus has a loop strength of 22kN, or a single strand breaking strength of 11kN. So tying into a piece with the rope on a clove hitch would weaken the rope to about 10kN, which should be plenty for an anchor application.

[@FilipGundersen]

Thank you for a very good video.

[@vincizara]

Im not a climber but I watch the whole video for curiosity

[@miketaiwanwalkcity6355]

What is the shelf for?

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

The main reason is that putting the Resverso up a little higher makes it easier to pull slack through the device, plus it helps keep things a bit more organized if the Reverso is clipped into a different place than the climbers' clip-in location.

[@simonandrewsphotography8157]

This anchor is for the top of the pitch when no bolts exist (a trad anchor). The belayer clips themselves into the shelf for protection. The master point holds the climber following.

[@Hermann2713]

Why wouldn't I clip my belay carabiner into the master point at the first two anchorsystems?

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

Yup, what Marten V said is the main reason, plus it helps keep things a bit more organized if the Reverso is clipped into a different place than the climbers clip-in location.

[@Hermann2713]

Ah ok, thanks. Never done it like that before. Going to check it out next time.

[@cwoodside907]

For your "W" set up, I don't fully agree with belaying off the anchor shelf. Why wouldn't you just belay off the master point instead and clip yourself into the shelf?

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

I like to tell folks to generally avoid clipping into the shelf, especially when the sling is made of dyneema, the knot could potentially role off the end of the sling unless there's a locker in the MP. Make sense?

[@lorenzocambria7089]

Great video ! very well explained. Thanks for sharing this with us :-)

[@dfjdskf9234j4fisd]

His PAS in the last bit is incorrectly attached to his harness

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

This is how Petzl recommends attaching the Connect Adjust since the stitching is unlike most other PAS's out there. Here's the link if you're interested: www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Lanyards/CONNECT-ADJUST

[@coreyhigham728]

Just went to the link provided, and one image does show it girth-hitched to the belay loop, but the text (copied from the page) states “Attaches to the tie-in point(s) of the harness with a girth hitch.” The page for the ‘dual connect adjust’ shows it girthed to the tie-in points, and has the same text. Seems Petzl needs to make the messaging clearer on the pages in question. I’d hope and expect the instructions that come with their PAS’s are more consistent.

[@umdbest001]

Subscribed

[@geoninja8971]

I'm always amazed, we use honking 10-11mm ropes, then build an anchor with tape that looks like a schoolgirls hair ribbon?

[@leandror8168]

Is that cordelette just tied together with an EDK? I thought that maybe a double fisherman's might be safer

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

Yes, a double fisherman's would be safer, but it really only gains you a few percentage points in strength. More importantly, the DF becomes permanent after holding a heavy load and then the cordalette can't be untied and used for many other applications. So we are essentially sacrificing a tiny bit of 'safety' for utility, which I feel is actualy safer in the long run. Also, in this particular application, the strand with the Flat Overhand (EDK) is only 1/3 of the anchor, which makes the flat overhand even more justifiable in this situation.

[@bellini98-1]

@@sietschoolforinternational5234 wouldn't a double overhand be better? In my experience I've never seen them slide if you tight them one strand at the time, while the simple overhand I've seen it slip a good 2-4 cm in an anchor like this

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

@@bellini98-1 Yeah, a double overhand would be great for this situation, and depending on the situation, I often put that into my cordalette. Thanks for the comment.

[@tonyjewell478]

@@sietschoolforinternational5234 Thanks for this clarification. The EDK certainly makes the cordelette more versatile by virtue of being able to quickly tie and untie for different uses and I'm glad that it is accepted in the guiding/teaching world. And if I'm not mistaken, the knot is actually only seeing 1/6th of the load as there are six supporting strands.

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

@@tonyjewell478 Glad that helps. Regarding the knot only seeing 1/6th of the load...that's not exactly true for a many reasons. If you check out our blog post (link above in the video description) you'll see that equalization pretty much never occurs in the field. It's even difficult to create a truly equalized anchor in the field. If the load changes direction at all, different legs 'feel' variable amounts of load. Also, if one leg is longer than another it will often feel less of a load. And if you look at the variable angles that extend from the master point, this will also put more load on some legs than others. So, if everything was perfectly equalized, which it really never is, *then* you'd see 1/6th of the load on the knot. Hope that helps! -JB

[@wordpress4373]

V clove with dyneema? Nylon should be much better.

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

It's legit to tie knots in dyneema, not only is it common practice with every professional mountain guide I've worked with but even Petzl is cool with it: www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Installing-an-equalized-belay-station?ActivityName=Multi-pitch-climbing. Also see the technical notice for dyneema slings on the Petzl website.

[@kilpatjr]

@@sietschoolforinternational5234 Thanks for a fabulous video and a great discussion. I wish all corners of KZbin were this informative and respectful! It's awesome to have such a respected provider producing such high quality freely available material that I find generally quite trustworthy. While I totally agree that knots in dyneema are fine (as shown in the Petzl tech tip for equalizing and limiting shock loads), I'm not actually sure I'm with you on this one point. Mammut specifically calls out loading single strands as a bad idea in their manual for the Contact sling. It seems to me this would rule out the use of that dyneema sling to construct a V Clove. Maybe I'm missing something? static.mammut.com/file/User_Manual_HI-MAM-023-5_Slings_PRINT.pdf

[@Chance-ry1hq]

Watching these videos will make you free solo. Talk about making a simple process, climbing, complicated.

[@mr.jsendy2826]

damn good video. gas

[@jankan4979]

super glue is still the best system

[@jamessparks5966]

It's crazy you trust your life to that thin little piece of fabric.

[@audiomystic]

It’s very very strong. The gear is more likely to eject from the rock than the cord ripping.

[@simoneboxler1065]

and remember the rule n° 1... Never use dyneema slings with knot for your anchors...

[@arnoldkotlyarevsky383]

"...because if one piece were to fail....you're gone" That is pretty bleak.

[@bubbyb0i6967]

Indeed, but it's also the reality of it. Mistakes with climbing can be met with tragic consequences unfortunately. No sense in downplaying it or hiding that truth if you're looking to educate and keep people alive.

[@maineoutdoorsman677]

Where the back up on the 1 strap ,👎👎

[@igneous061]

or just simply bolt up everything.....

[@neurochemnerd461]

Ooof. Pitons... Came across this video while reviewing anchors and I just want to say that I don't think that's setting a very good example for people learning to build anchors. Some dummy out there might buy one of those, hammer it in (or worse, slide it into a crack like he did), and deface the rock. I don't understand why he didn't just place another nut.

[@JonHarper-s7f]

They single most boring video I've ever watched