Advanced Motorcycling -. Steve's going round the bend!

[@Macro-photographer]

As a Paramedic I had to be your 999th subscriber! Well done.

[@mac243877]

I have just bought st1300 delivery on 26th after 11 years away from biking, at 63 yrs young iv already decided to start advanced riding lessons found these video’s so interesting and helpful just love the calm attitude and riding style hope to emulate same, many thanks I have subscribed

[@peterwoodham7487]

Hi After 8 months how are you getting on with your bike. I am 68 and looking at a cb650 after 12 years away. Is this possible or as my wife said should I act my age?

[@mac243877]

@@peterwoodham7487 your wife won’t help you live longer it just feels longer. My initial problem was confidence and handling weight after a long gap. But take a few lessons I joined advanced riders group now sitting my advanced test on 28th this month. Feel at home on bike now love it. If you feel ok on it go for it but be careful a lot more idiots and really bad atttitudes on roads now. Safe riding

[@michaelalcock6905]

One of the best videos i have watched so far. Advanced motorcyclist of 20 years and still great to watch and learn off fellow members. Thank you.

[@Glasshousebc]

Outstanding video and commentary. Although I no longer live in the U.K., the info presented has helped my riding immensely over here Many thanks again, subscribed and will check your channel to see if you go on any roads abroad. Happy riding people. (I was based in Plymouth many moons ago, good to hear accents and see the scenery)

[@Stephenlesliewilds]

Excellent video - and an extra point is that your positioning made you safe when the lorry came around a blind bend - someone taking the "racing line" would have been in trouble. I believe positioning is vital not only in getting you around the bend but keeps you safe in respect of other road users. Looking forward to more of your videos.

[@robertsamuel5869]

Really appreciative to this as I am waiting observed rides with DAM. Thanks

[@69pip]

Great explanation and demonstration. Would like to see your take on gears and the correct selection along with an explanation and examples of being in both the right and wrong gears for bends, inclines etc and prevailing conditions as they unfold.

[@thehairybikers2108]

Paul Aspinall Hi Paul. When me and Jo get together again we may do that for you.

[@TheDervMan]

Great video, thanks for taking the time to share.

[@tonyemans4512]

Really enjoyed the video, well explained and really good camera position to demonstrate the view. Love the IPSG

[@Glasshousebc]

It’s funny, because the wrong ways you were demo-Ing are what they teach you to do over here in Canada (& US I believe as well)when riding. As you say, good for track days but not on the road. In using the system, the vanishing point (huge learning point for me), the steady throttle has helped my riding tremendously. Cheers again Steve.

[@thehairybikers2108]

Glasshousebc Your welcome. Hopefully the other videos on Jo's channel will be as helpful

[@Glasshousebc]

steve puckering they have been. Thanks mate.

[@thehairybikers2108]

Glasshousebc As I think I said in the video if you practice and put it all together you will be safer. Steady throttle means that the bike has settled and we have even weight distribution (tyre grip trade off). If we do this we will never loose the front end.

[@judgedredd49]

In Canada and the USA the training Motorcycle Federation show two ways in which to take a bend. Number one..... the slow way of parallelling the bends all the way round and number two the 'progressive way' which as you state is the faster racing way. Unfortunately many riders prefer to take the second way and as a result some 4.500 americans kill themselves on the roads in the USA and many thousands end up seriously or slightly injured. Admittedly not all on bends but that and overtakes are the biggest killers. Many riders take track days or training is associated with the track and perhaps that's why they suffer such carnage. Most track day train to a bend by what is called trial braking which is actually front braking further into the bend all the way to the apex and then releasing the brake and powering on with the throttle. Perhaps this is why they suffer as they do. Trail braking is being taught over here as well??????

[@johnlang3233]

Great linking of bends - nice riding

[@etiennelabeille]

Thanks, Steve. Excellent demo. One thing that wasn't mentioned was that if you take the "racing line" on a righthander, you put your head over the white line, asking for a trailer, say, to knock it off. But it was pretty obvious from the video. I'd really like see a demo of acceleration sense. You may have done one, I haven't checked. When I did my advanced test, it seemed to be very important to the examiner. It took me a long time to grasp the subtleties of it and a while to get out of the habit of comfort braking. Thanks again.

[@thehairybikers2108]

Hi Stephen. I think I did mention once my head and body would be over the line if I were making any progress. I can't cover all aspects of advanced riding in a twenty minute video but Jo and I might be doing another in the near future

[@thomaswarren2699]

9:00

[@CJW-Media]

Brilliant video, thanks. Just signed up for IAM and looking forward to making it official, been studying roadcraft and watching videos like this for years, decided it was time to do it properly and hopefully become and advanced rider. Nice clear, consice explanations as you make progress, top notch 👍😊

[@thehairybikers2108]

You're welcome hopefully the other videos on Jo's channel will be if help

[@Plumduff3303]

I went round the bend years ago

[@judgedredd49]

If the vanishing point remains the same then we actually have the right speed to take the bend or curve. When it is getting closer to us as we approach and go round it then we are going too fast and need to slow down. When the road at the bend or curve is opening up or the vanishing point is getting further away from of us then we can increase our speed but only if we want to.

[@alibongo8209]

You make it look so easy lol

[@richardsherwin3259]

Awesome video 👌👍

[@Eastsussexbiker]

I’m training to be an observer so I will get my associates to watch them very good for training

[@judgedredd49]

A lot of the bends that he showed us were more like curves in the road and he rarely came across a bend that was severe. However right at the beginning he did and said that the bend became more severe and it actually caught him out. There are some bends like that where they are easy into the radius around the bend, then the curvature actually tightens up and a rider doesn't know this until its perhaps too late and they run off the road or collide with another oncoming vehicle. So even if the bend is known and certainly on new bend its safer to presume that every bend is a tightening one and therefore go slower into into it. If it doesn't tighten then no probs if it does then again no probs ok. Approach the bend, slow to the right speed using the vanishing point, slow a little more say 5 mph for a reducing radius , after slowing turn handlebars into bend, look where you are going and with a smooth throttle take the bend but also remember just how far you can see and be able to stop in that distance. If you can only see say 50 ft of your side of the road, not counting the other side, on any bend then you should not be doing much more more than 20 mph. [ full stopping distance at 20 mph is 45 ft and remember that you are leant over and braking is much more difficult to stop on a bend ] and when straightening up after the apex one can then accelerate out of the bend to whatever legal and safe speed one wants to.

[@judgedredd49]

When he speaks of positioning over to the nearside or offside many years ago the police recommended 5 different positions from the kerb or verge side being position no. 1 and the far right being almost over the white lines being position no. 5. They reconsidered these two extremes and obviously came to the conclusion that both extremities were an increased danger and as a result they have changed that and they now only have three positions. No 1 is where the nearside car tyre would be and no. 3 being where the offside track of a car's tyres would be and position 2 is the sump line or middle of ones carriageway. Thus limiting our road position but vital for our safety.

[@judgedredd49]

According to the latest Police Roadcraft Manual of 2013 there are only three positions to understand. The first is the nearside position which is no longer close to the verge or kerb but in line of the nearside tyre mark of a car. The second position is anywhere within the sump line of a car between the nearside and offside tyres path and the third or outer position is the offside tyre position of said car. and not anywhere close to the middle white lines at all.

[@2wheelsrbest327]

OBB just a point of clarification re body positioning are you saying the same as Michael Neeves MCN Road Tester advocates that your head is the heaviest part of you so you need to move that across the bike on either bend and a gauge would be moving your head over in line with the appropriate mirror. Another great and helpful video thanks.

[@stevepuckering4523]

Ted Edwards Yes I concur with that advice. As your confidence grows with the use of the system and mastering the vanishing point and positioning for bends you will find that you will be able to ride quickly and safely at the appropriate speed and gear. As your progress and skill increases another helpful hint would be to drop the right shoulder and elbow for for a right hand bend and visa versa.

[@2wheelsrbest327]

Thanks Steve Ted

[@mojoman7141]

Hey steve, good information and pov cornering, i´m a late starter on the bike scene at 52 lol, so basically what your saying is on right corners, nearside-middle-nearside and lefts offside-middle-offside, you could call it the long way round the corners. What for you is an appropriate gear or do you use the rev counter to choose the gear to have a middle range rev according to your speed around the bend. Cheers Alan

[@thehairybikers2108]

Mojo Man Hi Alan. You seem to have grasped what I was trying to convey. Remember we never sacrifice safety for the view ie when Positioning for a right hand bend and there is a junction that we have no clear view into on the nearside then we give up the nearside position and come more central to increase the safety bubble. Selecting the appropriate gear will come with experience but remember that it be in line with the road speed we are doing. So using IPSGA we see the bend Information, looking at the vanishing point. We position (P) then either throttle sense or brake (S) them select the appropriate gear (G). We never brake and change gear at the same time. Then accelerate (A) steady throttle around the bend power on exit

[@ljgarrison6910]

Steve, your videos are fantastic. I have been a biker for 13 years, having had the last 2.5 years off, it's not been nice but now two wheels is feeling good. God knows how I used to ride like a nutter, I had no sense of self preservation. Now I want to ride for another 20 years, or more! I find myself sometimes freezing when I see something unexpected, say mud etc, and as much as I shouldn't beat myself up given I am only 200miles back in the saddle, I wonder how you would work to minimise this? Or do you think I can return to my confident self, becoming a smoother and safer rider in a matter of practice. EDIT: Also, why do you advocate for not shifing while braking?

[@thehairybikers2108]

LJ I would recommend doing the advanced course with your local group. The system used is Information Position Speed Gear then Acceleration. The speed is lost first under braking then off the breaks and select the gear. Therefore maintening maximum grip front and rear. By braking and changing gear at the same time control and grip are reduced

[@judgedredd49]

He said that the speed limit was 60 mph and to maintain that speed" if it is safe to do so." One doesn't need to. Many train to the national speed limit or any speed limit but they are not actual targets that have to be reached at all time. When training and taking one's test one will eventually and generally have to be close to those limits but that is around town as that is where DSA tests take place. On country roads you ride to your own limit and capabilities and whatever makes you happy and are easy with and within the limit of sight in order that you can at all times in stop in an emergency without going across the road. Remember also that many bends are not and cannot be taken at that high a speed and one will have to slow considerably for any bend that is unknown and sharp.

[@kpr1969]

just found you and subscribed...I;ve got my mod 2 in a couple of weeks and after watching this vid i'm confused. My instructor is training us the exact opposite positions going into bends... i mentioned this at the beginning as with the best viewpoint around the bend etc but his theory is bail out areas if it goes wrong..please help as I have one more lesson before my test and i'm going to throw this at him..I want a 1st time pass and I want to ride how the tester will pass..

[@thehairybikers2108]

This is advanced riding using the system and goes beyond the standard of taking your bike test. These videos are just a guide to advanced riding using the system. For your standard bike test I would advise to do as your instructor advises. If you then wish to develop your riding skills then sign up for the road smart course where these skills will he learnt

[@iad77]

It would be nice if you had time to do analysis videos of crashes, I see a lot of riders going into slight turns and just losing the bike, low siding etc.... You could just comment on faults you see? Dan Dan the fireman does a similar thing with his live chat.

[@antman5474]

...mud in the central position is a real issue here in the west country, I noticed you spent a lot of time on the nearside. How would that fare on the test? Where I live nearside and offside are generally the only option. Too many John Deers about.

[@thehairybikers2108]

Ant Laud Positioning is what is the safest at any given time. Nearside position is used on approach to right hand bend to extend the view but never sacrifice safety for that view ie. If there is a junction nearside that we cannot see clearly into then we would be more central on approach. Also nearside position for brow of a hill unless there is a nearside junction then again it would be central

[@antman5474]

...thanks for that Steve, any advice I can get is good advice. I'll get practising.

[@anton5749]

Steve, do you need to do a mirror check before changing road position?

[@thehairybikers2108]

Regular mirror checks are essential we need to be aware of what is around us at all times. If you are talking about moving from position 2 to position 1 to extend your view for a right hand bend then no. If moving from lane 1 to lane 2 on dual carriageway then yes. There is no need for a lifesaver as we should now know what is behind us when conducting this manoeuvre. However lifesaver is essential when joining dual carriageway, turning right, exit off roundabout etc

[@anton5749]

Thanks Steve. I have been trying to do mirror check when changing position from 1 to 2 x 1 to 3 etc. I find I’m taking my eye off the road too much and making mistakes but this what I was taught. I never thought I really need to do so many checks as I have a picture of what is happening behind. T

[@judgedredd49]

The greatest danger of a racing line is simply ... on a right hand bend if one takes up a position that will take one over to and close to the centre white lines , the crown of the road, then in this position if anything comes towards you round that bend and they they are also up to the crown of the road ie taking it wide, they may take your head of or anything else that is in their way. On a left hand bend approaching the bend over to the right and close to the crown of the road before one turns towards the apex means the same thing that once again you are in danger of being hit by an oncoming vehicle also That vehicle now cutting his right hand bend.. So both situations are a NO NO The racing line is OK if one is on a track and one can see or one knows by experience where the Apex is. On new to us roads and out in the country the apexes are not know in other words they are blind to us and one will only find them by slowing and taking ones time through the bend and then after the apex is passed one will see the road opening up and away we go.

[@contactinspect]

What bike is it?

[@thehairybikers2108]

BMW RT1200

[@mike309saa]

Don't quite get why taking a racing line would throw you into oncoming traffic or the hedge depending on bend direction. If you take any corner fast regardless of the line you take forces will throw you to the outside of the bend. Just taking a racing line doesn't give the best view of the road ahead. If this was the case then you'd see motoGP racers coming of the track way more often just depends on how fast they're taking the bend.

[@thehairybikers2108]

Hi Michael The point i was trying to make was f you are making good progress then taking the racing line would put your head and body into on coming traffic on a right hand bend and the exit forces would throw you onto the nearside and on a left hand bend the exit forces would throw you onto on coming traffic. Yes at slow speeds the racing line can be used but then your safety bubble in regards to other road users is less than taking bends using IPSGA

[@mike309saa]

Ah fair enough though doesn't the racing line itself put you in the exit position rather than the forces? Obviously depends how fast you're going. I'm currently on a A2 licence and going to be doing my A category test soon had a riding assessment today to see how many lessons I'll need and instructor said I'm near enough there already though not overly confident with life savers or mirror checks for that matter. I do life savers when changing lanes or when about to exit a roundabout as well as pulling away but some like when you turn left at a junction you're meant to look over your left shoulder but surely you'll miss an opportunity to go? Also with mirror checks I find they take too long I obviously check my mirrors though not sure how often I'm expected to do so on test and just feel like it takes so long that in the time it takes to check mirrors which is around 2 seconds cars ahead could have stopped or something. Just wondering if you can give some advice?

[@thehairybikers2108]

Michael . Mirror checks. The danger is always from behind. This is just a 20min video and i cant cover all aspects of advanced riding in it. I teach that before we alter our speed we check our mirrors. Say we are in a 30mph going into the national I say 20mtr from the national do a left then right mirror check. If there is something close behind you say you are riding in a group then consider life saver before you power on. Coming from a national down into a slower speed limit then left then right mirror check before breaking and then it's the gear and we should be doing the speed limit before we cross the imaginary line between the two signs.. Yes life saver when turning right and left and when exiting roundabouts is crucial to bring safe. Good luck with your riding

[@thehairybikers2108]

Michael as for the racing line i would encourage you not to use it on the road as the forces on exiting is why most bikers have accidents. On a race track it is the quickest way around a corner but there are no hazards. Using IPSGA and being able to read the vanishing point is the safest way. There are many motorcycle fail videos where if you look they have taken the racing line and the result is always am accident on the exit

[@mike309saa]

Nah I don't use it on the road I watched a video ages ago before I did my A2 test on how to corner just wouldn't have thought the line itself would throw you to the outside that's all. Do you have to do life savers if at a junction turning left? Keep the vids coming btw videos like these have been a massive help. Have been on A2 licence for 3 years now and have covered at least 50,000 miles and have only had one crash due to a car parked on the near side pulling out on me on a narrow back street. Luckily despite being a 30 limit I don't like doing anymore than 20 in a narrow back street with cars either side. He wasn't indicating and pulled out when I was no further than 2 meters away and I ended up hitting his headlight had to have 10 stitches in my knee. But touch wood not had another other accidents on the road thanks to videos like yours helping me learn all I can about observation and anticipation.

[@handsfree1000]

Steady frottle

[@Eastsussexbiker]

Good video are you ex job !?

[@thehairybikers2108]

Hi Grant still in the job ex police motorcyclist

[@judgedredd49]

At 4.40 he overtook another vehicle but no mirror check and no lifesaver before he moved out for a better view. Then he accelerated quite quickly past the car and I just wonder, if before that, if he was doing the maximum speed limit or close to it just what speed did he reach whilst overtaking? Any speed in excess of the speed limit is an absolute fail for Advanced Riding just remember that. If one needs to speed in order to overtake then the overtake is deemed to be inappropriate and unnecessary . There are more accidents on bends in country roads than anything else The next greatest danger is in inappropriate overtakes so be careful out there. Remember Bends and Overtakes kill or seriously injury more motorcyclists than anything else.

[@roywilkie9577]

dude you're all on the wrong side of the road

[@martindekker8203]

I don't agree with him at all. Why do you say the racing way is the wrong way on the open road. Don.t make sense to me. You can get full traction on the front by trail braking.