The Great Controversy Chapter 4: The Waldenses

[@asenathnyandika5944]

Thank you our leaders. We love you. We delight in your Godly encouragement. Be blessed always.

[@ucheokoro2979]

Thank you Pastor and Mrs Wilson, may souls hear this message and decide for God like the Waldenses did 🙏

[@thevoiceofprophecytoday]

God bless Dr&Mrs Wilson more for this great work! Seventh-day Adventist must be quick to give more comments here. Many people depend on comments b4 watching or listening to anything via KZbin, God bless you for your comments!

[@elsiericarte4272]

Amen Thanks for sharing inspiring messages. More blessings Pastor Ted and Maam Nancy for your ministry🙏🏿

[@AdventistOrgChurch]

May the Lord bless you. It is our fervent prayer that you will be drawn closer to our God as you hear this message.

[@zandizondi5685]

Thank you pastor Ted and mrs Willson.. we looking forward to see you in South Africa 18 Febuary.. God shall speak to you...we cant wait to hear our president and see you and your family God bless you my pastor

[@estherkitney3340]

Thank you for this encouraging message, Pastor Ted and Sr Nancy. May this message encourage us for the times ahead as we await the soon return of our SAVIOUR. Esther Kitney.

[@bonbalab_]

Amen praise God . Thank you so much God bless

[@eleganteem]

Thank you Pastor and Mrs Wilson for this wonderful message of faith, perservance, and loyalty of The Waldenses who stood firm under intense persecution by papal Rome. Persecution of God's people will soon rear its ugly head again to try and obliterate those who keep holy the 7th Day Sabbath and reject the spurious Sabbath but let us hold fast to Jesus and His unchanging word that 'he that endures to the end shall be saved." Thank God for the Stone that will annihilate the false earthly system. I am looking forward to the ushering in of the Kingdom of God where there will be no pain, no crying, no sorrow, no death but life and joy abundant.

[@polycarpsmith1419]

One of the more *bizarre doctrines of Adventism* and Ellen G. White is her claim that The Apostle Paul writing in 2Thessalonians is on one hand making every effort to bring as many Gentiles ( *"all nations"* Rom.1:4) into the Church as possible, while at the same time, *the Adventist's* preach PAUL is telling everyone that His own Church which Christ instituted is going to become a great whore in less then 200 years. What people will do to justify themselves. In fact, what the Apostle Paul was saying was that the rebellion and persecution of the Church by the Sabbath keepers, was the acts of lawlessness against the authority of the Church, wherein some future date, the rebellion against Christ's duly established Church was going to find it's culmination in some egomaniac so full of himself, that he so try to undermine the authority of the Pope and Church, that he would attack the Church and the Pope to the point he would declare himself God in order to undermine the Pope and the chair of Peter. It is indeed, in the city of Thessalonica that this very thing took place *(Acts 17)* 5*But the Jews (devout Sabbath keepers) which believed not, *moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.* (to be killed) 6 And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also; 7 Whom Jason hath received: and these all do contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, one Jesus. Here you have it, motivated by hate and envy, the fabrication of lies and persecution against the Church by devout Sabbath keepers in the very city to whom 2Thessalonians written. Again, to the Thessalonians in 1Thess. 1:14, Paul writes concerning the rebellious Sabbath keepers, *"they MURDERED BOTH CHRIST AND THEIR OWN PROPHETS."* (As Christ also taught in Mt. 23) *THEY PERSECUTED US* (THE APOSTOLIC CHURCH) They *"DON'T PLEASE GOD!"* And, they are *"CONTRARY TO ALL MEN"!* All these same things were taught by Christ in Mt. 23. The rebellion and persecution against the Church Christ himself established is well documented in the actions of the Judaizers who vowed they wouldn't eat or sleep until they murdered the Apostle Paul as they did James and later Peter and others. ' It is the Apostle Paul who wrote these inspired words engraved in scripture for all the world to see in every bible to the Church of Rome in his Epistle called "Romans" : Paul prophesied, *"The God of PEACE will crush Satan under YOUR feet"* *Rom.**16:20* This verse says all you need to know as to whose side people are on. Those who fight the Church of Rome, will be gathered with Satan and be crushed, as promised by the prophetic and inspired words the Apostle Paul, not given over to Satan as the Adventists teach.

[@bobbylewis2]

@@polycarpsmith1419 True, all these Adventist Waldensian videos are just revisionism, almost no facts here at all just idealism.

[@charlesnzaramyimana9795]

Thank you our dear Pastor Ted and Nancy for your commitment to spread this message. God bless and keeps you safe.

[@AdventistOrgChurch]

We are glad to see you here, Charles. We hope you will share this inspiring message from Pastor Ted and Nancy with others for a dose of inspiration and an increase in faith. God bless you.

[@rebeccamichaelakpan8858]

Thank you so much pastor and Mrs Wilson.

[@sharonwilhelm2173]

I LOVE this series!! I am just a few months into my journey and finding out where the end-time remnant truly is! I am learning of truths about prophecy because I grew up being taught a mixture of dispensationalism and futurism in the Worldwide Church of God since I was 5 years old. I am so thankful for the loving correction, and I have a very long way to go, but this series sure is making it easier! Thank you from Missouri!

[@kwesispikes]

Praise God for the inspiring messages. May we stay even more faithful to the truth than the Waldenses did.

[@billclass5847]

Where are the Waldenses now? They weren't even Sabbath keepers anyway.

[@AdventistOrgChurch]

Amen. Let's keep looking unto Jesus, the Author and the Finisher of our faith. Blessings on you, Kwesi.

[@billclass5847]

@@AdventistOrgChurch Sadly, you all have looked at Ellen G. White and only used Jesus, to make converts to Ellen.

[@kwesispikes]

@@AdventistOrgChurch Amen. And may we all be blessed.

[@sonnymuchindu5609]

Thank you so much

[@CarlosRoblesCarrero]

Help us Lord to honor you as you commanded us.

[@AdventistOrgChurch]

Thank you for surrendering your life to our Almighty God.

[@sharonloomis5264]

Years ago I had a phone call from a business. Wrong number. But I like visiting on the phone. So I did. We were discussing people and I said they needed to read the Bible. She mentioned that she has her children memorize whole chapters. Every morning as they leave the house, they recite their chapters.

[@polycarpsmith1419]

Mrs. White wrote that the Waldenses observed the Sabbath: "Through ages of darkness and apostasy there were Waldenses who denied the supremacy of Rome, who rejected image worship as idolatry, and who *kept the true Sabbath* . Under the fiercest tempests of oppositions they maintained their faith." (page 65) "Some of whom [Waldenses] *were observers of the Sabbath."* (page 577) Bacchiocchi spent many years researching the Sabbath. In all of his years of research, even with access to restricted areas of the Vatican library, did he ever find any evidence that some of the Waldenses observed the Sabbath? He wrote: "I spent several hours searching for an answer in the two scholarly volumes Storia dei Valdesi--(History of the Waldenses), authored by Amedeo Molnar and Augusto Hugon. These two books were published in 1974 by the Claudiana, which is the official Italian Waldensian publishing house. They are regarded as the most comprehensive history of the Waldenses. *To my regret I found no allusion whatsoever to Sabbath keeping among the Waldenses."* Bacchiocchi is not the first Adventist to search in vain for evidence of the Waldenses keeping the Sabbath. The only thing researchers have found thus far are some documents which refer to the Waldenses by their nickname, "insabbati." *Unfortunately for Mrs. White, the term has nothing to do with the Sabbath* . It refers to the sandals the Waldenses were known to wear. The Latin word for sandals is sabbatum. Thus, the Waldenses were insabbati--*"sandal wearers."* *A Waldensian minister in Italy was contacted and asked if the Waldenses ever kept the Sabbath. Here is his response: "The Waldensians did not keep the Sabbath and were not guardians of the 'Sabbath Truth' as you call it. ... We can therefore say very clearly that the Waldensians were NOT Seventh-day Sabbath keepers and they were NOT persecuted for keeping Saturday as the Sabbath!" (click here to read the entire letter) Apparently Mrs. White wanted to have a line of unbroken Sabbath-keeping, from the time of the Apostles, to the Waldenses in the mountains of Europe, all the way through to the time of the Seventh-day Adventists. Unfortunately, such a continuum does not exist. Sunday-keeping began much earlier than Mrs. White realized, and the Waldenses never kept the Sabbath at all. Another inaccurate statement Mrs. White made about the Waldenses is: "Behind the lofty bulwarks of the mountains . .. the Waldenses found a hiding place. Here the light of truth was kept burning amid the darkness of the Middle Ages. Here for a thousand years, witnesses for the truth maintained the ancient faith." (pp. 65-66) The Waldensian movement was established by Peter Valdes around 1176. *The Waldenses were NOT excommunicated from the church until 1184* . Therefore, the move to the mountains could not have taken place until after 1184, and the persecution of the Waldenses had subsided by the late 1600s. *Therefore, it would be impossible for the Waldenses to have kept the light of truth burning for "a thousand years" during the Middle Ages

[@jorgesantos4683]

@@polycarpsmith1419 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints (1 Corinthians 14:33). Your narrative is consistently confusing brother.

[@mytonbaladiang8475]

Thank you Pastor for the message.

[@AdventistOrgChurch]

You are welcome, Myton. May the Lord bless you.

[@leemary4833]

Encouraging study.

[@clc7378]

“Endured By Them With Patience And Constancy That Honored Their Redeemer! I recommit… Help me Lord… 🙏🏼

[@AdventistOrgChurch]

You are in our thoughts and prayers, CLC.

[@michaelreyes8182]

Love this...thanks!!!

[@SWprayers]

Amen

[@lingchristine6413]

Amen and Amen ❤️

[@ethelineewers5480]

Amen and Amen 🙏🙌❣️

[@AdventistOrgChurch]

Thank you for watching, Etheline.

[@DraKBC]

Amen!

[@AdventistOrgChurch]

Thank you for being here with us, Dra. KBC. Blessings are upon you.

[@fredsimmons2793]

The Waldensians predominantly did not keep the Saturday Sabbath.The other examples EGWhite used as God's true remnant the Cathars/ Albengessians were dualists,did not believe Jesus came in the flesh but was spirit only.They didn't practice marriage and practiced suicide as a end of life option.The Waldensians wore a uniform dress, had long hair,this was a sign of their order.Andrews mission to prove this link for the sake of the SDA church was superficial at best and done a bit with guile.History and evidence has proven this a assumption.The Waldensians of today say this assumption by SDA's is not thier position,and that's being charitable.

[@SpottedEagleOwls]

To confirm. Did the Waldenses kept the Sabbath

[@mmtoss6530]

They kept the Christian Sabbath (Sunday)

[@menace4082]

​@@mmtoss6530the legalized instituted day imposed by Constantine. It's not the Sabbath, man has zero authority to attempt to change God's law.

[@AdventDefenseLeague]

Yes, they kept the SEVENTH day Sabbath, although at some point they also began to observe Sunday (unfortunately).

[@mmtoss6530]

The Waldenses were Sunday keepers and part of the Reformed Calvinist tradition. This is literally historically false. But you were right, the Waldenses actually kept the teaching of the Bible, just not the teachings on a 19th century heretical sect.

[@AdventDefenseLeague]

False. They were Seventh-day Sabbath keepers, even though at some point they did apostatize into Sunday keeping. That's the truth, and tomorrow we will prove this further on our channel. Stay tuned.

[@bobbylewis2]

@@AdventDefenseLeague Some of them did worship on the Sabbath, others and probably the majority did not. Their beliefs ranged pretty widely across their diaspora which was not just the Alps, but literally from Aquitaine to Bohemia, the Netherlands to southern Italy. Just about everything said in this video is false, from the origins of the Waldensians (they started with Waldo as a Catholic pauperes Christi group with some bad ideas, not Apostolic times which has zero proof), I mean I could go over each wrong thing here if you wanted me to but for now, let's stick with this video is just historical fanfiction which is exactly what Ellen did.

[@oluseyiakinwande]

The Waldenses may not have been perfect but we're opposed to the dark teachings of their days.

[@sharonloomis5264]

Okay.

[@AdventistOrgChurch]

Thank you for watching, Sharon.

[@billclass5847]

The problem with Chapter 4 is that the Waldenses were not Sabbath keepers at all. And, there is no record of any *"persecution of the Waldenses over the Sabbath keeping"* in the annuals of Human History or religous history. And, Adventist scholars themselves know this is true.

[@vickeluslweendo1074]

From which achieves of history do we get that info brother that confirms that the waldenses never faced any of the presentation in this chapter?

[@jorgesantos4683]

Simple definitions of Truth: 1. Jesus 2. The 10 Commandments 3. Unadulterated scripture (Bible) The Waldenses held fast in faith and principles of these 3. Now tell the netizens here why were they excommunicated & mass murdered by papal Rome? Please study history very well, was papal Rome the vanguard of all 3 principles mentioned above? If your answer is NO, then the Waldenses was the other party of the 2 that indeed held the truth. And when we say TRUTH, consider everthing complete including NOT KILLING, NO IDOL WORSHIP, NO LYING, NO ADULTERY and 7th DAY SABBATH KEEPING, etc. incorporated in the 10 Commandments. If we profess to love Jesus, then this should be everyone's takeaway: Jesus says, “If you love Me, keep My commandments … He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me … If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.” John 14:15-24.

[@michaelreyes8182]

Sorry Bill, like so many who question truth will come to light. Not from the Waldenense writings, most were burnt BUT now from records kept by their persecutors! Notice.. ''One of the primary sources of evidence of Waldensian Sabbathkeeping during the first half of the thirteenth century comes from a collection of five books written against the Cathars and Waldensians about 1241-1244 by Dominican inquisitor Father Moneta of Cremona in northern Italy. Moneta passionately defended himself against criticism from Waldensians and Cathars that Catholics were transgressors of the Sabbath commandment. In the chapter De Sabbato, et De Die Dominico he discussed the significance of the seventh-day Sabbath of Exodus 20:8, “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy,” and contrasted it with the value of the Lord’s day, his term for the first day of the week.'' That should be enough if truth matters ...check it out for yourself.

[@robertsandberg2246]

I've heard from secular sources too that the Waldenses survived as long as they did because, in part, they were able to defend themselves against the Papal onslaught relatively easily in their mountain redoubts.

[@billclass5847]

@@robertsandberg2246 There's a portion of Chapter 4 of the Great Controversy that is just great. First, Ellen G. White declares how the Waldenses were "Sabbath keepers for a 1,000 years" but shortly thereafter, she claims, *"Some"* of them were Sabbath keepers. . How many is "Some"? 3 or 5, or 6? , very likely NONE! She doesn't claim to know the names of any of them or where to find those devout and willing to die for the Sabbath martyrs. And, that for a very good reason, *there wasn't any!* So, the entire bluster of Chapter 4 of the Great Controversy ends up with *NO proof* of anyone keeping the Sabbath day! And, in fact they were all keepers of the first day of the week, SUNDAY and not Sabbath keepers at all. They all melded into the other Protestant Churches who kept Sunday also! You can't make this kind of utter nonsense from EGW up. Making and utter fool of herself she writes: Mrs. White wrote that the Waldenses observed the Sabbath: "Through ages of darkness and apostasy there were Waldenses who denied the supremacy of Rome, who rejected image worship as idolatry, and who *kept the true Sabbath* . Under the fiercest tempests of oppositions they maintained their faith." (page 65) . She simply just couldn't find any anywhere among the Waldenses, because there isn't any! The entire story of Sabbath keeping among the Waldense's is pure fable!

[@billclass5847]

The summary of Ellen G. Whites *"Great Controversy"* argument is thus concerning the Apostasy of the Apostolic Church from her book, in chapter 3. 1. The Apostle Paul and John warned that the Apostasy of the Church Christ instituted. And, that the apostasy of the Church was going to happen and was already happening in 53AD and by 90AD, the Apostle John was already commanding people to *"Come out the Church Christ instituted upon the Apostles, the prophets and Christ being the chief cornerstone.* Thus, the "HER" and Harlot of Revelation 18 to EGW and Adventism is the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and the *book of Revelation is begging all the Christians to leave the Church Christ died for and John, Paul and all the Apostles labored to bring into the "ONE Faith", ONE Body, the ONE Church to an end regardless of Christ's promise to never leave it or the gates of hell prevail over it. * 2. The falling away, was NOT those who left the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. *but THOSE WHO REMAINED WITH the Apostolic Church* Christ instituted was "falling away" . And, ONLY those who would LEAVE the Church (the use of Rev. 18:4 by the SDA) would be saved, while those who followed in obedience to the Church would be lost. 3. The falling away in her mind described in 2Thess. 2:4 *was caused by the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church abandoning the enforcement of the Sabbath commandment upon the Gentiles.* and that every Christian must become Jewish first, before claiming to be Christian and the claim of Cephas to be Pope. 4. EGW and the SDA claim was that faith through Grace in Christ and the Holy Spirit and the fruits of the Holy Spirit was and is not sufficient to keep a person from murdering or stealing..etc., thus the spirit of lawlessness. And, that ONLY by the LAW of 10 commandments could keep people from sinning, NOT by the Holy Spirit. 5. She also claimed that suddenly somewhere long before 325AD, the Catholic Church decided to have a Pope, who was the Vicar of Christ and no one in the entire known world protested. This was *"already occurring"* in 53AD when the Apostle Paul wrote 2Thessalonians 2 while at the same time the Apostle Paul as calling the Peter, "Cephas" meaning Rock. And, prior to that Christ named Him "Rock" from the moment Christ called him and so did every other Apostle who spoke the Aramaic language, as Christ and most of Judea at the time. Only those who DISOBEYED the Church could be saved in EGW's teaching. 6. She then claimed by the time of Constantine, the entire known world of Christianity had fallen away "to join forces with the Pope" and that was "The Great Falling Away" prophecied in 2Thess. 2:4 in 325AD. Yet, not one voice protested anywhere in the entire known world of Christianity. 7. For Ellen G. White, persecution and martyrdom of the Church was a good thing and the church living in peaceful times was deplorable. She would have much preferred that the torture of the Christians continued than have peace. 8. In the end, Ellen G. White and the Adventist church teaches the Papacy didn't begin until 538AD according to their 1260 day prophecy, but that conflicts directly with their own writings which say the Papacy was already ruling in 325AD, which is 217 years or more difference. Ellen G. White writes explicitly in Chapter 3 of the book Great Controversy, speaking of the time of Constantine in 325AD less than 200 years after Christ: *"THE GREAT APOSTATE HAD SUCCEEDED in exalting himself “above all that is called God, or that is worshiped.” 2 Thessalonians 2:4. He (the Pope) had dared to change the only precept of the divine law that unmistakably points all mankind to the true and living God.* (Great Controversy Chapter 3. …. "No such honor was given to the day by Christ or His apostles. *The observance of Sunday as a Christian institution had its origin in that “mystery of lawlessness”* (2 Thessalonians 2:7, R.V.) which, *EVEN in Paul’s day, had begun its work.* Chapter 3 of Great Controversy. Yet, there is no record of any "Controversy" about a change from the Sabbath to Sunday in the records of Church history. 9. EGW's and the Adventist's point is that Christ ( *God himself in the flesh* ) could *NOT* and did not *"Point mankind to the true and Living God"* And, that only by Sabbath keeping could they come to know God, period. 10. Lastly, Ellen G. White had this to say in her Book, "Spiritual Gifts" . What a beautiful line is this from Ellen G. White: " "No matter how powerful the evidence given of Jesus' being the Son of God, the Redeemer of the world; *they had murdered him* , and could not receive any evidence in his favor. Their only hope and consolation, like SATAN 's after his fall, was in trying to prevail against the Son of God. They (THE SABBATH KEEPERS) continued their rebellion by persecuting the disciples of Christ, and putting them to death. " *(Spiritual Gifts, 101)*

[@michaelreyes8182]

So, whats your point?