Making a Custom Thread Die on the Proxxon PD 250/e Lathe

Making a die is the natural followup to making a tap, and is why I made my shop made tap in the first place. The custom feed screw threads on my G Boley watchmakers lathe are an unusual geometry, but are damaged, and I need to chase them with a die to clean up the form. I learned about the techniques involved from books and KZbin videos, and took the shop made tap out for its first real workout.
The thread in question is a left hand 4mm by 0.6mm pitch with a 55 degree angle. It predates most modern thread standards, and is not compatible with any older standards I can find. This video is the first time my tap has ever cut steel.
OnShape Model: bit.ly/2JBwnTu
The links below will financially support this channel if you use them to buy stuff:
Machines:
Proxxon PD 250/e Lathe (24002) - ebay.to/3nbjK2D
Proxxon FF 230 Milling Machine - ebay.to/2UbpP2N
Tools:
CCMT External Lathe Tool - bit.ly/2JDiAM5
4mm Solid Carbide Square Nose End Mill - bit.ly/2MXGIK9 ebay.to/2JVRWB7
MAP/Pro Gas Cylinder - ebay.to/2Ue4sxH
Pizza Oven Bricks - ebay.to/2GOqjZr
Materials:
BS1407 Silver Steel, 20mm precision ground round bar - ebay.to/2IqoxxY
Music:
Easy Lemon by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution license (creativecommons.org/licenses/...)
Source: incompetech.com/music/royalty-...
Artist: incompetech.com/

[@andrewcorradini6525]

SO many great little learnings packed into one little project, and nicely explained! Whether one needs to make a tap or not, this is worth watching just to learn a LOT of little tips, tricks, and better ways to do things. (Just a few: why and when to use a spotter drill, not a center drill. Leave the plastic on the end mill. Drill bits are for/better at making holes in X situation; end mills in Y situation, BUT think about these things too which is why you need to actually use BOTH to make ONE hole in a particular, unusual situation. Which you wouldn't do (and would probably screw it up) if you didn't know & think about several characteristics of each! Etc....) THANKS for a great little tutorial.

[@plupkination]

That's the great thing about having a fully equipped shop.. Tool doesn't exist? I guess we will just have to make one! Awesome! I loved the dremel setup as well.. A dremel drill is definitely one of my favorite tools! In many situations, they are able to make what seems like a big problem seem insignificant!

[@TheArsonsmith4242]

I have to say, your dremel fixture setup was brilliant. I always fear breaking out that tool as it's the time I always think to myself, "this is where I turn a nice professional looking part into a garage hacked together looking part."

[@tonyrmathis]

I love the way you describe your thought processes, it's like hearing your inner monologue.

[@TopoPilot]

If the legendary David Attenborough was an Adventurer with a very small lathe. Love your channel! This video was incredibly satisfying to watch.

[@general5104]

Thank you so much for a very nice technical video. Try this little trick on for size, (from an old Machinist/Tool & Die Maker/Welder/Designer 40 years, retired disabled over 10 years ago.) Put your lathe in 1/2 back gear...In other words, pull the gear handle, but don't pull the pin. That will lock your chuck spindle, if you're going to use a tap handle. On another note, put your tap into a chuck, morse tapered into your tail-stock. Use your spindle chuck key to turn your stock and the chuck on the tail-stock for holding your tap. In this case, don't tighten your tail-stock. At first, lean into it to start the thread. Then just turn the chuck 1/2 turns using your chuck key to turn your stock. Don't use tapping oil...use Crisco Vegetable Shortening instead. You'll break far less taps this way! You'll also find you can power-tap using Crisco. When close to the end of the tapping session, finish by hand and then reverse on back out, after you come to a complete stop, or you'll pop your tap! (If you're tapping Aluminum, use Terpentine as a cutting oil.) You made mention, that your work wasn't supported from behind, when in the divider head chuck. I had a plastic sectional box of WOODEN parallel bars, that I used for this very purpose. Be it in a chuck or in a machine vice, my work was always level. If it got drilled into, so what. It would still work for some things. When it was shot, all it was, was a piece of oak I had machined in my spare time. Chunk it in the garbage and grab another one out of the box. That would take care of your support problem. Also, that was a Kewl jig you came up with, using a door hinge and a Dremel tool, to cut your slot. Here's something you can do, when you're hardening something...crush up a bunch of Walnut Hulls. Then crush up the coals from a wood fire. Don't take it all the way to a powder...that's explosive! Just down to granuals. Mix the shells and the carbon and DRY play sand and put in a metal bowl. Dig a shallow hole in the center, a tad larger than your part. Heat to a dark yellow or light red, whichever works best for your equipment/application. Then lay your part in the hole and immediately scoop more mix over the part. Then pour more dry play sand over it. (this holds the heat and allows the Walnut shells to inject the carbon into the open pores of the surface of the metal.) Forget about it for an hour. Using tongs, reach in and get your part. You have just CASE HARDENED it. Now heat IT up just before red and drop it in oil. This hardens and gives a memory. Then heat it in a shop toaster oven, on about 175 degrees for about 20 minutes...and then let it cool to room temperature on it's own. You just annealed it. If it's TOO hard, it will be brittle, and will break! The annealing takes the brittle out of it. Thanks again for posting a great video!

[@Zogg1281]

Really interesting video, especially the bits about adjusting the die cutter to take shallow cuts. I knew that it was possible but I haven't seen it done. Thanks for the great info and for your time 😊

[@machineshopatthebottomofth3213]

Love the hinge idea! Great way of controlling the cut

[@morelenmir]

Watching this fees like exactly like watching an OU video--which I used to love doing as a child! Brilliant work!!!

[@richardmeyer418]

Thank you. I came from TOT and ABOM to you - enjoy your adventures with the weenie little lathe very much.

[@joshuadraper1534]

At least you own your mistakes and not editing them out. Good man. Thats how we learn

[@thenorthamericanphonograph1039]

I enjoy videos of people making things. My primary occupation is in a military firearms factory, and work with mills, drills, CNC machines, and lathes. My hobby is restoring acoustical talking machines and making the cylinder records for early two minute machines. My father makes miniature steam engines so has small lathes and mills. Thanks for a nice video.

[@philipsutcliffe6014]

A really good video, all processes clearly described without unnecessary commentary, very useful for me as I also have a Boley watchmakers lathe needing feed-screw renovation. Thanks.

[@johnmettler995]

I found the Demel / brass hinge set-up to be a stroke of genius. Nothing to be ashamed of there. Your vids are interesting, informative and relaxing. Always learning something. Thanks for the post.

[@PracticalRenaissance]

That worked great! I love the trick with the steel wool, never thought of that but I'm remembering that for the next time I have to heat treat a small part!!

[@FireguyNtx]

4:25, on the edge of my seat waiting for the old "snap". That has to be a little nerve racking. A big thumbs up for the link on how all the info for the the die was determined, just before you said it, I thought "how the heck did he determine all the......" Great video and thanks again.

[@andrewdolinskiatcarpathian]

Outstanding work Alistair. Thank you for showing such attention to detail.

[@davedunn4285]

Your attention to detail is amazingly impressive

[@trumanhw]

I LIKE This channel. Watching stuff being made on a lathe, mill, (and sandblasting, which you don't) ... is very fun -- especially of the highlights at fast speed. It's hypnotic. Thank you.

[@graemelaing5551]

Really really good videos (both tap and die) - great photography, great commentary and production - pretty much all possibilities covered.

[@danielwgk]

I love the hinge mount!

[@ginolabarbera2056]

Making a tap and die? What a courageous effort! Great work. You are my hero! I love the detailed technical explanations and lessons from experience you are passing on. Great stuff!! Keep them coming!

[@Thundermuffin93]

This was an awesome watch! Thanks for sharing. And what a nice narration you have to it all. Just enough at the right time, etc. Excited to see more!

[@nalinux]

Great idea with the hinge !

[@DiCasaFilm]

Excellent stuff. I recently inherited a mini-lathe. It was completely covered in grease. Using your videos I was able to take most of it apart and clean it. Now I’m just watching video of things you’ve made. Very fascinating!

[@daviddouglas4200]

Well done ! -- clear & understandable, can i offer the following -- Drilling the three holes , make a "pin" like a top hat to fit the center hole The flange - file away in three places then place in hole & proceed. Tempering -- Get a thick ( ish ) block of steel ( in the case of your die say 10 mm thick-- not critical but dont go too thin ) heat the block up realy hot & place die on block . watch the colors & quench -- this gives even heating & slower/ more control over proceedings. But -- nice one sir !

[@grantdeisig1360]

I usually just put the lead screw in the lathe and then run a thread file on it. It's a lot quicker if you have the right file with the correct thread pitch. But this was still a very cool video on how to make a die.

[@jonminer9891]

Very well done. A great combination of art and craft. Luckily you had some great tips from other craftsmen as well. What a great community.

[@mikemichelizzi2023]

Nicely done, that cutoff jig was clever!

[@MrHardon75]

Always a pleasure to watch your videos, thank you.

[@nikond90ful1]

Thanks for the video. Really nice bit of work. Shows what can be done with very little.

[@ericericson3131]

I found your tempering method interesting. I am a woodworker and sometimes forge my own tooling. I find it easier to temper in my wife's cooking oven. Light straw is usually around 400 deg F. Check your material data chart. Check oven with a thermometer first and let it soak for about 20 - 30 minutes. you can also throw a test piece in and check it that manor. A word of warning, make sure you have removed all the oil from your part. If you fill the kitchen with oil smoke, your survival may be in question.

[@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe]

Tempering in a bed of brass chips seems to be a common traditional method among horologists. I was using this method as I've seen it used in a number of videos about clock and watch making. As you saw in the video, it didn't go all that well. :) I'll certainly try the oven technique at some point, though I may have to wait until the oven is already hot, as it seems wasteful to heat up a large cooking oven to temper such a tiny tool. Thanks for the suggestion!

[@pentachronic]

@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe You can always cook some food in the oven (with tin foil over it) on the bottom shelf when tempering !! 😉

[@gensyed]

Very well narrated. Professionally done. Thank you.

[@barrymcdowell4852]

Thankyou for a great video. Great idea making your own die to what ever thread you require. Barry. Australia.

[@colincreedtattoomachines]

Great stuff Alistair, Well done!! I particularly like the simplicity of your jig idea for cutting the slot. FWIW, I've got an old Aussie made P&N die that's not only split but features a tiny grub screw that forces & holds its gap open. The real beauty of this grub screw arrangement is it acts as a fine adjustment stop so the die can just be used as a chaser. Out of all the dies I own, regardless of their sizes, this is the only one with this particular feature. regards Colin

[@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe]

Thanks Colin! I'd love to know how they cut the thread for that grub screw. Since I made this video I've used die wrenches with much finer adjustment screws, which give much finer adjustment of the die depth, and I'm considering an upgrade to my tailstock die holder to make it easier to control the die depth of cut.

[@colincreedtattoomachines]

@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe I'll email you some photos of my die which should give you a much better idea than me trying to explain it.

[@LeDibeau]

Very interesting, very exciting, congrats for making a die!!

[@bostedtap8399]

Excellent, and innovative. Thanks for sharing.

[@Just1GuyMetalworks]

Nicely done! It was a tap making video that got me hooked on tool making, and now a die video too 😁! Thanks for the share 😃!

[@mlee6050]

@Just1Guy Metalworks yeah it great though I am disappointed a bit, was hoping to be able to make a full set myself than have to own tap or die to make the other one

[@IsaacMeyerMN]

Always nice to find new KZbin channel that is going to be great.

[@GrafRamolo]

I own small tos mn80 lathe, so I really enjoy your channel.

[@Workshopfriend]

I really appreciated the content and presentation of this video. Thank you!

[@EricTViking]

Great video, love seeing all the bits that didn't go exactly top plan too. 😁👍

[@mikebarton3218]

Hi Alastair. Great video. Thanks. Can't wait to see the next Chinese mini-lathe video too. Mike

[@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe]

Hi Mike, thanks for watching. The next Chinese lathe video is in editing, so I'll get it done as soon as I can.

[@jimanderson9403]

Nice work. Contrary to your belief , I liked the hinge idea for the up and down motion as you advanced the piece closer to the cutter . Good job. Glad it turned out well for you.

[@pilgrimm23]

My Compliments and... Well done sir.. I understood the whole process and the reasons why. Well done...well done

[@pcbman1st]

Very good video. I learned quite a bit even though I'll never make a die or tap. Learning how to heat treat and temper something was worth the watch.

[@kalleklp7291]

Excellent work..! From what I could see you hit the temperature pretty much spot on. So that die should cut for good.

[@EmmaRitson]

very nice work! thanks Alistair.

[@kaoshavoc]

This is like metal porn. I just, can't stop watching. It is amazing and relaxing. Keep up the great work mate.

[@deanharris7149]

Righteous! The door hinge is brilliant, loved the narration, great video, subscribing!

[@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe]

Glad you enjoyed it! I was certain that I'd be criticised for using something as improvised as a door hinge, but everyone seems to love it. :)

[@tuscanland]

What a wonderful job!

[@muzzaball]

Toolmakers simply amaze me!

[@Wyowanderer]

Excellent work, thank you.

[@Rubbernecker]

Nicely done!!

[@MrCrankyface]

Great camera work and super interesting video!

[@mm-tl5gc]

Great to see, really interesting, never done quenching with water, was surprised not to hear the pinging sound of the steel letting go. Impressive video👍

[@JohnClothier]

That was fascinating!

[@Kevin-gx8lc]

Great stuff! Love your vids. Greetings from Southport.

[@Hertog_von_Berkshire]

Awesome work. I have always admired toolmakers.

[@dikkybee]

I am a toolmaker and unfortunately this guy is a hack and knows enough to call himself a DIY backyard wannabe. Do not use his techniques as most are wrong.

[@cristiandanielpopescu4793]

Beautiful work!!

[@jster1963]

Great work Sir!

[@rezasamian]

Nice. Very nice . Thanks for all video's

[@tinker5349]

Hi vnicely made and very interesting, well done.

[@RavjiPindoria]

Super video; nice presentation.

[@MattysWorkshop]

thank you for another very informative video, very much appreciated

[@burtlade1705]

Nice presentation! Thank you.

[@bryanduke1973]

One thing I noticed about people who use tap and die is you turn a quarter turn turn back to get rid of chips and repeat that way your tap doesn't get damaged or your stock more likely to be because its softer

[@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe]

Yeah, I do turn my tap back, but I go too far beforehand, and don't do it often enough. It's a knack I need to work on.

[@CraigsWorkshop]

Hi Alistair. Great work on the die (and the tap beforehand)! It's good (instructive) to see the challenging moments as well as the plain-sailing moments. LOVED the slitting fixture :-) Cheers, Craig

[@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe]

Thanks Craig! I'll try and always include the mistakes and problems, as for me they are the most interesting parts of the videos.

[@CraigsWorkshop]

@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe They are certainly the parts with the most learning potential. Cheers, Craig

[@Festivejelly]

Good tip with using the parallel to make sure its square. I was just thinking about how I might do that today.

[@thomaschandler8036]

Enjoyed your video. Very instructional

[@juanrivero8]

My tiny Proxxon MF70 micromill will chuck a cutoff disc and I use that when I can. Cutoff discs are really brittle but fortunately are cheap. Especially if you buy the ones from Dremel rather than Proxxon. For heat-treating operations I made a "tin can furnace" from instructions all over the internet. Can be used indoors on a flat brick, costs almost nothing. Got to remember that boric acid trick. Well done.

[@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe]

Thanks for the tips! I'm on the look out for an MF70 for fine work, as I think it might fill a gap my mill currently can't quite do. Would love to know more about how useful you find it. The tin can furnace sounds like a good approach, as my current furnace loses a lot of heat into the open. The boric acid trick is a standard horology technique, and is covered in a lot of watch and clock making books. Clickspring covered it really well in his videos, which is my main inspiration here.

[@juanrivero8]

The MF70 is no Bridgeport. It will accept tooling with approx.1- 2-3 mm diameter shanks. In fact the collets that come with the mill are 1, 2, 3 and 3.2 mm (1/8") but it is possible by diligent search to find end mills that will fit it. The Proxxon endmill set is very expensive and a bit of Search work is worth the trouble. I have pushed this mill beyond its limits. I have no room in my shop for anything bigger. It is agony to face a 40 mm square piece of flat steel with a 3.2 end mill. But I did it . I think that within its limits the MF -70 is a nice piece of gear. Especially when you are limited for room.

[@mumblbeebee6546]

I recommend Pask's "Percy Pig" Furnace as kzbin.info/www/bejne/hqCcdn6ZhM9kq8U

[@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe]

@@juanrivero8 From what I've read the MF70 collet is the same system as Proxxon use in their drilling and grinding tools, so would be the same as my little drill, and would accept the same tooling.

[@juanrivero8]

Interesting. If you shop around the internet, you can find a lot of tooling with 3mm shanks. I have some 2mm, 2.5mm, 2mm ball end tooling in solid carbide that I am very pleased with. I can also chuck Dremel tooling, which is a lot cheaper than Proxxon. Maybe not as good so I regard the Dremel stuff as expendable tooling. The MF70 qualifies as a Very Small Mill. I have no room for anything bigger:)

[@madosh_baku]

Hi from Baku Azerbaijan - Apsheron Peninsula. Good looky!!

[@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe]

Wow, I had no idea my videos got that far! Welcome! :)

[@mahesh1757sardesai]

very nice, perfect and clean work with utmost care... keep it up bro.

[@gile849]

Great job man.

[@jamalalghazoune9164]

That's Really wonderful.

[@johnmacaulay1695]

Onetwelfthscale A wonderful video of exercises in miniature engineering. I also own a lot of Proxxon tools and am always amazed at how accurate they are. I have found that using the diamond cutting wheels are a lot more secure than the carborundum wheels.

[@philoso377]

I have been there. I failed to create relieve behind first 7-9 turns that was quite challenge. I ended up to keep it as a broken bolt extractor.

[@neilw2O]

I have had great success using 3 flute end mills. A lot of chatter is occurs because the cutter can react against the opposite side. This works VERY well with facing cuts.

[@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe]

Interesting, that sounds very promising. I'll have a look for some 3 flute end mills.

[@philipdenner8504]

Awesome, thanks for showing that.

[@steveclark3379]

nice use of the door hinge .. very good

[@woodscreekworkshop9939]

Nice work!

[@kcraig51]

When you said zed (z) axis, I was like ??? (I'm From the U.S.) Excellent idea to split the die. I've got to remember that one!

[@fredcreer1929]

Sorry about the language difference. Its a cross we all bare.

[@askquestionstrythings]

Maybe it's a regional thing or maybe it's an industry thing. Z-axis and Zed-axis were terms I heard growing up from my Father (a tool maker machinist) and were terms used in Math and Engineering courses I took. (I'm from the U.S too)

[@pentachronic]

Great work! And really good video work. Love it!

[@spnynorman5519]

Really interesting - thanks for sharing

[@premalathalatha3587]

very good video. solution for non standard threaded dies

[@harkiratsingh7883]

I like most of u. Your system of working is great. I salute your working method. Thanks. Sir

[@paulbanks8583]

Lovely video and brilliant job of making the die. Keep up the good work

[@sukhwindervirdi5622]

Good

[@maxgreen6838]

Very educating, thanks a lot!

[@TheBsavage]

Great job making this video. One of the best I've seen. Great video work, & great expository on the ups & down, goods & bads & good detail. Loved all parts of it. I use a lot of Acetone, generally, but for degreasing I've found commercial products that call themselves degreasers to work pretty well. As much as I hate WD-40 (oversold & not a lubricant as many claim) their specialty degreaser works pretty well, in my experience better than Acetone. Also brake-cleaner works well.

[@daveys]

Great job, excellent!

[@dennisobrien3618]

I first saw the boric acid/alcohol paste on Clickspring. Same for the tempering in brass shavings. I may have to try it next time I heat treat a small item. You might be well served to make a mini forge with a couple soft firebricks and your mapp torch. It would hold the heat in the part much better and more evenly.

[@mikesmachining8826]

Nice work

[@Smallathe]

Very impressive!!!

[@allengentz7572]

Excellent work now I know how to do it.

[@jaywilliams8882]

I've simply used the jacobs chuck in the tailstock to hold taps while threading holes. It works very well.

[@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe]

The Proxxon tailstock has a short B12 taper with no tang, so it's holding power isn't very strong. I have used the technique you suggest on a larger lathe successfully, but not on the Proxxon.

[@502deth]

heres one method i use, ill put the tap in the keyed drill chuck (cant be a keyless, youll see why in a minute) and get it good and tight, then ill keep the chuck key in the chuck, and position the chuck arbor in the tailstock so that the key rests against the compound. they chuck key then becomes a kind of dog to "drive" (hold) the tap and i turn the lathe chuck to thread teh part. if its a particularly tough part to thread, ill put an adjustable wrench on the jaw to turn it.

[@tombal7408]

Wow adventures is the right word! Awesome

[@iaahner]

This is amazing! I have to wonder: do you think you could have ground a very small HSS internal threading boring bar and single point threaded the inside of that die? It is small, but not very deep, so the tool could be quite small without flexing too much. Your tap method certainly worked, but it makes me wonder just how small of an internal thread cutting tool I could make. I might have to play with that for the fun of it.

[@johntenhave1]

Beautifully filmed. A most interesting approach. Depending on your resources putting the part between centres and chasing the thread with a single point tool might have been easier. Still, great work with the tools on hand. Thanks for posting.

[@normdoty]

fwiw ; boric acid mixed with water is used as an eye wash under certain conditions. very very well done, i have always wondered how dies were made, now i know. thank you for a very interesting and instructional video.

[@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe]

The only warnings I found were against breathing in the dust, so the gloves were mostly because of the alcohol. However I'm not qualified to tell people what's safe, so in videos I err on the side of caution.

[@davidgangte9320]

U r genius!! I like ur Dremel idea....👍👍