Advice for Ironmace, State of the Game, Solutions, Dark and Darker's Great Potential

[@NotLikeThisJoe]

Please let me know what you think! I'd love for everyone to have some high-quality discussion about the game in the comments. We'll be back to entertaining gameplay and guides with the next video!

[@kikyska4813]

I feel the ranged damage piint is carried by gear since they usually (at least for wizard) deals lower base damage than melee options most wizards agree that if you aren't stacking at least +7 true damage you cant compete

[@colezeller4861]

@devteam let me first start off by saying: (IM SO SICK OFF BALANCE CHANGES) remove zone battle royal gameplay. Combine the maps into a single map. This should play like sword art online. The deeper you go the harder it gets the better the rewards. Your gameplay loop should look like cycle or tarkov with a persistent map. Repopulate the map with loot/mobs and allow players to join in And extraction whilst the map is still up and PERSISTENT. This will give VARIABILITY in the gameplay loop. If I’m new I can stay at the top of the map and escape after I’ve farmed / quested while dealing with less geared people because gear people go deep for better loot and better bosses. Having everyone play their different gameplay loops together allows for more interactions and more fun. PERSISTENT MAP FTW SUBNOTE: FUCK MULTICLASSING PLAYTEST 1-3 still my fav

[@ZenMunk]

great video! love your ideas. especially the gear disparity and economy, it really sucks. I dont agree with the ranged meta issue as hitting your shots requires more skill compared to the W+Mouse1 melee classes that either outrun or ambush most ranged classes, tank/ block shots or throw an infinite number of knives/ axes.

[@evilsa1nt]

What tool did you use to visualize all of your points? It's incredibly easy to read, even before you drawing on it in real time to emphasize points. Extremely well done, goddamn!

[@smalldevils2929]

@@kikyska4813eaaaSs

[@ryan6daysaweek]

This is excellent video. Well researched, clear points, and honestly professionally delivered. I think this is going to make some good discussion in both the player space and the dev space.

[@NotLikeThisJoe]

Thank you gamer. I almost scrapped this video multiple times, but I really had to get these topics off my chest.

[@GamesLife-vt1jo]

Im starting to learn how to make games to make my own dnd but a real Extraktion dark fantasy. Dnd have so much Potenzial but im abosluty not fine about what the devs to about the last year.

[@firesupotree]

Good discussion has been happening in the player space for a while, when the community leaders don't dismiss it and call them doomers.

[@mykrodose]

@@NotLikeThisJoe glad you posted this. great points!

[@WellDoneOnTheInternetEverybody]

@@NotLikeThisJoe never, you have great ka-nowledge when it comes to this game :)

[@ret7502]

I'm a senior software engineer/designer at a game dev company, 5 years experience I agree on all points, just wanted to leave a comment for the algorithm

[@EloyJoseSanz]

I'm literally the same, around 6-7 years exp and senior softwater engineer in a game dev company, and I agree with everything said. You are on point. I just hope they listen!

[@nomak7932]

I have had basically the same conversations with my friends who play the game. Very succinct and delivered super professionally. I hope this video gets the traction and attention from iron mace that it deserves.

[@WrathofKoopa-fs8le]

Well done my friend. As a fellow hobbyist I just have to say, you've demonstrated better communication, better thought leadership and a better roadmap in 20 minutes than we've seen from this game in the last year. Well said. I don't agree with 100% of all your ideas here, but any plan is better that what we have now. I commend you.

[@Brotection_]

A couple of them are just "ideas" to test out. But most of them are virtually objectively what's best for the game's longevity and health.

[@Proximusシ]

@@WrathofKoopa-fs8le i relate too koopa way too hard XD

[@KimPachis]

This man cooked up a Michelin star meal

[@breadtoaster1011]

This is so good

[@Y4mi2599]

ty for making this video, really explained what IronMace needs to do for Dark and Darker to prosper🙏

[@zeratikal3740]

Pls IronMace listen to this guy, this is honestly the best video talking about the state of DaD!

[@Brotection_]

This video is literally perfect. IM needs to watch this ASAP.

[@zakizamir4397]

Think you hit the nail on the head! amazing video! I personally just cant stand playing during this multiclassing phase which pains me as I love this game.

[@mrrager1409]

as someone who is literally brand new to this game (4 unsuccessful raids) im sure glad i found this channel, very informative clear and precise. im here for the ride! wake up Ironmace!

[@cillblinton8181]

Your unique perspective coming from many different games, particularly the slashers, is incredibly refreshing

[@ZipTie]

I agree with a lot of the video but I feel like a couple of the points are just wrong. The base stats on uniques are very high compared to blue, but the way stats work in DaD means the value of those stats on the higher end HEAVILY fall off in value, so a person in full uniques is not 75% stronger than a blue geared person, but much less. Not only that, the amount of low counterplay cheese in the game makes getting very geared (Which should be one of the main motivations) feel kinda meh, especially in solos/duos. Gear is insane, and a majority of the playerbase is still scared to run anything higher than blues, making gear worse wouldn't help this in my opinion. Second point was about "Make random modifiers worse and make base stats better", Ironmace did this, we had this exact patch for around a week, and a majority of the playerbase said it was the most boring the game ever was, hence it instantly getting reverted. There was 0 build diversity, finding loot was not hype or exciting, if you found a piece of gear one rarity higher than the one you are currently wearing, you always picked it up to wear with 0 thought. There was no thought about what stats you need or if it has added damage it was just "oh I went from a green chest to a blue so now I'm 10% stronger". Which would only make the gear problem worse, because now you can't build specific attributes on green/blue gear to beat higher geared players, you will just always be out geared and lose against anyone with higher rarity items. Random attributes also add hype / rng to looting chests and bosses. I agree with a lot of the video and the format of actual constructive criticism was a breath of fresh air, but I respectfully disagree when it comes to gear.

[@smijz59]

Yeah it might be a product of the low ttk at the moment but I can’t remember a single one of my deaths recently that was because of better gear, its almost always bad positioning. If ranged damage was nerfed and the combat is more melee focused I can foresee a lot of statchecking tho.

[@lellex5649]

when we getting some DaD vids ziptie? 🙏

[@xLAIOSx]

Yeah i also don't agree 100% with him on the gear too. The rest of the video tho is GOATED

[@NotLikeThisJoe]

I had a lot of topics I wanted to cover in this video, and definitely didn't represent them all as deeply as I would have liked. Like if we remove random modifiers completely, then I do think we'll have to have at least one other minor system that adds diversity, complexity, and more options while gearing up. Just as a random example, the devs previously mentioned a gear socketing system like in Diablo II. I remember that brief day or two where they tried the lower strength gear. Both sides for and against were very vocal at that time, but I feel like they did not leave that experiment running long enough to get good data. Regarding low gear players beating higher geared players, I do think lower geared players will have a much better chance if the gear disparity is lower. Finally, I wish that getting gear isn't the only goal in this game. I want Guilds/Clans where we can all contribute to building our guild hall, duel in a training room, etc. Also Hideouts that we can upgrade and customize. More customization unlocks in the future, and so on. Remember 4 or 5 player boss raids they once mentioned? I can see a lot of fun potential in this game besides acquiring the best gear.

[@ExileEditing]

Agreed

[@brain5437]

almost cried tears of joy at the riveted gloves hypothetical gear changes

[@dashblue8224]

the TTK has been 1-3 hits for at least a year, damage scales way faster than Vigor or Armor rating and on top of that they buffed headshot damage but left helmets only use being to give you more physical power, after that I gave up on the game as any skill expression was dead and buried

[@NotLikeThisJoe]

I wish I had also covered scaling (especially upper end), since I think this is a reoccurring problem and it gets out of hand in this game. You are right about damage scaling harder than survivability.

[@havocxmosquito2839]

headshot damage was never buffed, it never made it in.

[@BernestSanders]

More people gotta see this, not only the devs. I really hope this gets to other dark and darker content creators and they also chime in on their ideas for the game. Ideally the conversations should be had to refine and brung out some synergy between content creators

[@Clamp7777]

You have summarized and brilliantly articulated all of the key issues I have with the game. It has 100% been frustrating continuing to see repeated mistakes. Well done.

[@firesupotree]

This is a good video, its time to have these kind of honest discussions about the game if we want it to be here in the future. It may be critical, but his is the opposite of dooming, this is what putting actions behind your hopes looks like. One alternative to the 3-tier map backpack space issue, and its a band-aid we need to rip off eventually anyway: reduce the abundance of gear drops across the board. Loot drops have been buffed several times over in attempt to "equalize" the gear disparity issue and make gear easy to acquire for all. The result was increased inflation, and the same stratification between employed and unemployed, and those with game knowledge and those without. You can loot purples in your spawn room and yet gear disparity is as bad, or worse than its ever been. Less gear in circulation would mean even the wealthiest players would be running bis less often, lowering the acceptable window of gear to bring into HR considerably. Removing trade entirely would take this concept even further, and not much would be lost in the process IMO if they also nerfed random modifiers and reduced gear disparity. The gear you find in the dungeon would be more useful, even if it doesn't have the "correct" RNG rolls. There is nothing HaRdCoRe about a game where you make and spend the majority of your money on Instacart. It just makes the gameplay loop feel cheap. *we need to remember, this trade/reselling centric version of the game was DIRECTLY LOBBIED FOR by special interest groups mentioned briefly at **18:00** , namely the LordCollector Discord, Dytch, and Mendo. These people passed around petitions to quit the game, called it boring and abused their relationship with Ironmace to get the patches that nerfed gear disparity REVERTED in under 12 hours, this happened TWICE around hotfix 16-18 era. These people are where the "the entire game is gear, if they nerf gear the game will die, scrubs just need to git gud gear disparity is not a problem" etc. sentiments come from. That shit is literal propaganda.*

[@xxDrone95]

Damn, i knew their had to be some dumbass whispering their toxic ideas into the devs ears or something with all the weird ass patches

[@firesupotree]

@@xxDrone95 Yep, its been this way since the playtest days. streamers get free gear, top leaderboards, and then form an "elite discord". Elite discord confers with the devs on the direction the game should go. Gets changes that benefit their playstyle, get their viewers to brigade any discussions that gain momentum that suggest otherwise. KZbin keeps deleting my comment for a sketchy link but look up "Jay's thoughts about the devs catering towards streamers" on the DaD subreddit, the top comment has ALL the receipts lmao.

[@eatinhashbrowns]

The change you mentioned for the marketplace items not being able to be resold until extracted with I think would be a great change.

[@stewiegrif1]

This was such a wonderfully put together discussion. I really love how you phrased your criticisms, and it is clear that you are coming from a place of love for the game. The number 1 thing that makes me rage quit/instant exit to desktop is when I either get kited to all hell (or have a zero-movement ranged fight of endless spam), or when I try and finally take the fight and the melee battle ends in 2-3 swings. If I bring in high PDR, I get kited/burst by magic damage, and if I go with MR/high mobility I get chipped by physical range damage. It is like so many of my fights are coin-tosses if I built my kit better than the other person! I've been playing battle royales and extraction games for years now, and some HR fights in DaD feel like the least agency I've had in any video game, specifically when it comes to how much influence I have over the outcome of a fight. There are some techniques that high-level DaD players have gotten used to to regain some of this agency that I just don't think are healthy playstyles for the average person (including door spam, range spam, dancing to avoid range spam, and unbalanced movement speed differences). Normal games before multi-classing felt like we were closer to this type of combat balance I've been hoping for, but now even normal games feel like pseudo-HR matches with how much the TTK has decreased with all these additional stats flying around (like slayer, spear prof, and other various shenanigans). Again, this was so well put together and I'm thankful to have a good place to share some more thoughts about the game that isn't toxic.

[@doctord.ph.d.4986]

I still think that an arena would be healthy for dark and darker. While it does pull focus away from the core gameplay loop, it accomplishes two other things. It lets new players dip their toes into pvp in a controlled environment, where they not only aren't risking gear, but they also actually get to try to learn the combat, vs getting ambushed, panicking, and getting frustrated.( I've seen a lot of new people quit after their first pvp experience. ) Secondly, it gives the hardcore pvp players a place to go, separate from normal lobbies. While that would mean less populated lobbies overall, it would let hardcore vets get their pvp fix, and newbies could have a little more breathing room in normal lobbies.

[@NotLikeThisJoe]

I'm hoping it is a place to truly see who is the best. No gear diffing. Leaderboards right now mean nothing except who grinds the longest.

[@johnwittgen5255]

What an amazing video really appreciate you taking your time to explain all this. I hope the devs see this!

[@amongstus4418]

Nerfing ranged damage isn't really needed, there's one super easy fix to make physical ranged not so bad...REMOVE SLOW ON HIT FOR RANGED AND INCREASE IT FOR MELEE. For Magic, nerfing the random damage values will help but they should also just get rid of any 'hit scan' attacks like Zap, Holy Strike, CoP, or Lightning Strike. All ranged should be skill shots and be blockable. They should then reduce the recoil you get from blocking without needing a perk so you are more incentivized to bring a shield and running without one is now a bigger disadvantage.

[@sallymae3631]

This mann just gave a concise corporate n professional solution to a very serious problem facing this company.... And he did it for free. What an angel.

[@bunsofglory173]

if the devs arent listening they need to. your advice is spot on and honestly they need to listen to people like you if they want this game to grow. awesome video. you earned my sub.

[@Vardoc1]

good video and well explained :)

[@STASIS_AUDIO]

Spot on, iron mace needs to see this video.

[@dizigned193]

Great video, here's a comment for the algorithm!

[@beroning]

Very well put together, these suggestions clearly come from high game experience and knowledge. You understand the sistems Fully and is taking a neutral stance about the game without bias we see all the time on reddit and discord: "buff my class, nerf everything else" You perfectly hit every single important aspect of the game, and how to fix/improve it ! Amazing research done here, i hope the devs watch and consider your suggestions. You cleary love the game and want the game to last for years to come ! Cheers! Great video !

[@NotLikeThisJoe]

Thank you brother

[@kmndra5831]

yeah especially gear stats 600% stronger (clown)

[@PotRoasters]

Some good points made here. Ironmace has lost the plot

[@NotLikeThisJoe]

It does feel this way the past few weeks, but I hope they will reorient/refocus soon.

[@SoWestMeetsEast]

I had a few of the same arguments but it's usually met with "skill issue" in that toxic discord. I absolutely loved this video, thank you for making it.

[@Tomorrows21]

amazing video, hope ironmace and other players see this.

[@wolffslip3875]

IM take notes !! this was an awesome video holy hopefully they see this

[@JWL123]

Started same playtest you did, have 1600 hours right now, this video is amazing and I really hope someone at IM watches it

[@EEmanss]

This video is just what we need... Well done bro

[@TJWatts-o9t]

Great video, hope the devs see this

[@Nuzico]

very good video, i really hope the devs take a good and long look at this

[@uNoCardiologist3110]

Congrats man! You've earned yourself one more subscriber! Keep up the professional work! Ironmace could really use people like you to make Dark and Darker even greater.

[@JColdiron]

I never comment about a video twice unless I’m responding to someone but I’d have to safe that this video was phenomenal. I agreed with most if not all your statements and really hope that the devs/sdf take some of these ideas into consideration.

[@pauljerome01]

This is the type of presentation I hear from a Annual Quarter report on stocks, i like it

[@TheRealDentry]

Massive respect and appreciation for putting such a well put together analysis on the entire game. Thank you.

[@hisober]

I appreciate you sharing these ideas man. Looking forward to your streams!

[@chost-059]

this guy is definitely goonmaxxing up this game, great video

[@immortaledge8830]

I've played since playtest 1, and I have a long history of balance thought and discussions under my belt across many games ranging from casual to competitive, thus I've decided to give my thoughts on the gear balance of dark and darker; which is where the majority of the games balance issues stem from. Ultimately it boils down to how Ironmace has chosen to balance the gear in the game; specifically damage vs resistances. Now what do I mean by that? Simply put there is an imbalance caused by the relation between resistances and damage in the game where the damage has been continuously raised to match resistances. This leads to a disparity between damage and non resistance builds where if you aren't running a resistance build you get 2-3 tapped if not one shot by a high burst damage build (looking at you add damage) or on the other end some builds require true damage to even be able to fight resistance builds. This all came about because Ironmace decided to buff damage to match resistances, except in rogues case where they couldn't buff damage due to modifiers in their perks so they buffed pen instead. There are 3 ways to fix this but I will highlight the one that I think will be healthiest for the games balance in the long run. Cap resistances at 50% and balance the weapon and spell base damage as well as add and true damage around it from there. This will help with the overall balance of the game and tone down the absurdly low time-to-kill vs non resistance builds, as well as leave room for perk and skill re-balancing that will not be pen/damage focused. my thoughts over 2 years of playing this game - Shickkz

[@Binoutv]

excellent video, it's impressive how majority of gamer are agree with your idea, lot of idea i had the same with my friend about the state of the game but the devs are not aware of i hope they will implement contents on your way it will be a good game!! keep going

[@MechaBengar]

Goated post. Ive pretty much said, and agree with every aspect of this. Well done gamer

[@ExileDarker]

Excellent video. That was worth of your time! Thx a lot:) waiting for you multiclass cleric

[@MEE7CH]

I hope someone at IM sees this. This is exactly the kind of feedback they need to improve the game, well done.

[@Garguler]

What a beautiful video, everything is on point! I really hope they will see it, keep it up!

[@siddh2658]

Hey I love the video and expresses my disappointment with the last season aswell. I think being able to voice your frustration while being able to give constructive feedback is difficult and you defitnetly nailed it!

[@EsotericCat]

this has been all my guild has been talking about recently. thanks

[@Polokko]

Really well argued points overall, though I do think the numbers you brought up when talking about gear are misleading. Stats from gear are added onto base stats, so going from +1 str to +6 str isn't a 600% increase overall. It's something like +1% physical damage bonus going to +6% physical damage bonus on a fighter, or less if the str is high enough. Still, I 100% agree that it's an issue. The most fun time on Dark and Darker was that one day where gear was bad.

[@Parkourred3]

Loved the video and the breakdown of everything I had an interesting idea when it comes to add damage modifiers. Removing add damage modifiers is definitely needed but I think a great replacement is putting in more armor and magic penetration. This would still allow people to counter build against tanks (high amor or magic resist builds) but it wouldn’t have any effect on time to kill for those that don’t build armor and magic resist. Allows for build flexibility still but removes add damage stacking as a must across the board to be competitive

[@DokjaTTV]

Brother I'm 1 Minute 36 Seconds into the video and I can already tell this is a fantastic guide for the devs to save this game. I hope they see this and take some notes. Love you NotLikeThis

[@jj2621]

this is a GREAT video, doesn’t bash ironmace for their mistakes but you still hold them accountable. people love this game and want it to succeed ! but in order to smell the roses we have to push through an entire bush of thorns. I understand that the pressure put on by the community’s negativity probably doesn’t help their production, but this game still has a chance to pull people back for a great experience if they take it constructively. hope watch this video and they take the advice to heart. i wanna see all my DnD bros having fun, and i want ironmace to be proud of their product :)

[@WellDoneOnTheInternetEverybody]

10:00 i think spud put it well too. increasing non pvp stats like undead weapon damage or undead/demon damage reduction for increasing static rolls to rarity of gear. also, stuff like increasing loot found based luck and maybe a new 'quest item' based type of luck.

[@Redb]

this is spot on hopefully they take some of this on board

[@SisemOnTwitch]

fantastic video. tons of issues in this game i wish were just flushed out and fixed and you covered them perfectly

[@dawsondavis]

I used to love playing Dark and Darker. The original playtests were some of the best gaming experiences of my life. The time to kill and lack of skill expression led me to leave quite a while ago, but I am really hopeful that it will eventually become a great game. I really like most of the ideas you have presented here.

[@KyleDnD]

amazing video i hope the entire community sees this

[@Rsslone]

Very thought out and everything made perfect sense to me. I hope someone from iron mace can at least think about the ideas and points raised.

[@chrisbigglock1529]

Truly well said, need to get the attention of the devs ASAP

[@Proximusシ]

im glad you made this video i highly respect it. these are defenitly core issue that need to be addresed with the devs and i hope this reaches them. Great video 10/10

[@stephenprice3632]

Perfectly said, couldn't have worded it better. You've gained a new sub, and I hope the devs see this and really consider all the points you've made in your video. Well done!

[@thomasm_complains]

100/100 percent best well put together take in the real issues with DAD. Keep posting this in general chat

[@mikebassman2873]

Great vid mate. Dark and darker needs this

[@GamesLife-vt1jo]

In lobby is hard my mates needs always 5-10 min to gear up its boring to wait

[@corpusaeternum]

Good video! I like the suggestions. One big problem with the home phase as you named it, is they seem to really dislike quality of life features, its almost like they take pride in things being obtuse or taking more steps to accomplish which also leads that phase into taking longer. I think they relaly need to flesh out this part to be more quick and intuitive without punishing players for it aside the points you made

[@mikekedian1221]

Man you are 100% spot on. If Ironmace doesn't very seriously consider employing you they are bad.

[@theycallmetox7408]

This is 100% what's needed. I have stopped playing since multiclassing. My friends tried this game, but stopped playing after an hour because they couldn't be arsed to deal with the fast pvp encounters. I have talked to my friends who still play, but stopped like me when multiclassing came about what would do it to make it a better game. Your video hit the nail 100% - I am just afraid that they listen to the discord playerbase. It feels like most of them want multiclassing. And how does this get to Ironmace? Well hopium!

[@DavidKarapetjan]

Although I am fan of the idea of multiclassing, I do agree with you 100%. The game is not ready for it and many other things they have tested. The core gameplay loop is not hardened enough to be adding such systems. They have great project with a lot of potential, but they should right now stick with what they have and make sure the quality of the base game is in good shape, before moving to big game changing systems. I hope devs will see this and re-evaluate their approach.

[@dashblue8224]

11:40 I don't think making gear less exciting/powerful is the answer, I think we need the health of all classes to be like 300% higher so even if someone has better gear you can still beat them if you are much more skilled at blocking or using debuff spells

[@NotLikeThisJoe]

My friends and I have long talked about raising the HP of players. I think it would be very interesting to test out.

[@joejoe2160]

I think a 40% reduction or so in damage would be good, honestly when fighting with all players savage roared the fights feel a lot better and fairer

[@immortaledge8830]

@@NotLikeThisJoe Raising overall hp is more of a bandaid fix to what is simply a broken system, at the end of the day damage is way to high and raising hp won't fix this problem in the long run. Ideally resistances would be capped at 50% 60% max so that IM can afford to lower damage numbers across the board to decrease the disparity between fighting tankier builds and squishier ones, this will also lead to higher TTK. I've thought about this for quite some time and this is the only healthy way to balance in the long run.

[@Fenarious]

Absolute W, very well made with fantastic points.

[@Fallrac]

Thank you for putting the time into making this video well done.

[@Kentaloupes]

Agree with everything! Thanks for putting all my thoughts into words!

[@SuicidalTendys]

This goes so hard. Amazing work!

[@Jrizk19]

agree with every single point, down to the purple torch. great video. hopefully they make it fun

[@TouchGrass297]

This is an amazing video. It covers almost everything that is an issue and gives some really good points. I think if they take even a few of these ideas into the game it will be way better. One thing I can say is when it comes to the nerfing of gear and random modifiers(which I think is a good idea) they need to balance classes around the new lower gear. For example them nerfing rogue base stats to horrid levels instead of reworking invis. If a new system of gear it would be way way harder to get that strength and vigor out of the negatives from 6 vigor 9 strength to 15 and 15. Along with this classes like wizard really aren't great at low tier levels, but are extremely strong with high gear. However nerfing the high gear would make the class extremely painful to play. You can say the same with so many other characters. I can say a similar thing with fixing the ranged meta, while I think the ranged meta is bad you can't just make ranged way worse without killing multiple classes(mostly ranger). Then lastly when it comes to there "collecting data" they need to do that with changes on the test server. And to make the data collection better they need to make the test server a better test environment with stuff like max level characters, full completely quests, and possibly boosted gold rates/free gold.

[@JColdiron]

100% agree. I really love this game so I have a lot of patience for it and it’s devs, but I do feel like they need to start being a little more strategic since the bigger this game gets the more structure is needed.

[@CatBack94]

Fixing the core game play loop could probably be done in the week if they tried and make the game a far better experience. I agree with all points you made about gbmm, multiclass, gear disparity etc

[@DamienCloud]

Hey friend, that might seem like a silly because there has to be an unknown good reason why it is like this, but do we really need to limit gold stacking to 10 golds? Gold is always the first thing I toss when I'm full, it's valueless dead weight in terms of ap in HR and more often than not 1 slot items will outvalue it. It's also incredibly annoying to manage in the stash Why don't we put it at 50 gold? Make pouches 200 golds (not sure about the big ones) If I'm missing something please let me know

[@NotLikeThisJoe]

I wanted to bring up gold storage on the Darkest Hour podcast yesterday, but we ran out of time. I think all gold storage containers should be cheaper.

[@DamienCloud]

@@NotLikeThisJoe Yeah that's why I came to ask you (congrats by the way you're a legend in the community now I'm so happy for you :D) it's a shame you didn't get to discuss it, maybe another time. I agree they should be cheaper as well

[@dylangutierrez7482]

This is amazing , thank you for your work 🫡🫡🫡

[@lukarito]

I agree to all points and i think that not only unique items should have special effects, small effects would make the game way more fun. For an example there could be a smithing system that can be leveled (Home Phase Quality) that makes it possible to make wolf claw gloves (doesnt require gold to craft only materials) that apply 1 bleed dot damage every time you hit a limb (minor buff as u want to hit the head). But at the same time if you mess up the smithing minigame the item breaks into components (gold sink).

[@xxPsychusxx]

fantastic video. my friend pointed out that stat curves dont make it 600% stronger but its still rough. I hate GBMM and multiclass, etc.

[@pleasediscord1605]

We do really care. Great to see a video with fully articulated opinions.

[@MattyJETS-y8i]

beautiful. Been playing since the very first play test. For someone who plays high level and for fun you hit almost all the fundamentals that need to be worked on. Last few weeks I have found myself saying "this gameplay loop is ass". From my perspective it looks like they are REALLY trying to iron out the game for actual release(EX asking for help in all language translation and super unnecessary rush of multi classing) They need more money/project management/resources. I love this game and I think IM public image could be improved ten fold if they stopped over promising and underdelivering. It's in IM hands now.

[@BlackWolf4112]

Dude. This video was perfect. I love dark and darker so much, but with the current gaming landscape I have major trust issues with any game developers. I honestly do not think that ironmace will fix this game and make it as good as it can be. But i WANT them to so bad that it hurts. I pray that that they see this video or at the very least see the discussion from this video and make the game that we care about as great as it can be. Thansk again for this video as it was very articulate and in my opinion spot on for what ironmace needs to do. Definitely earned a sub from me.

[@nothavoc9382]

Excellent video, excellent points of focus, completely agree with all of it, well said.

[@murzol1634]

wont the melee become too strong if we nerf ranged damage ?

[@randombot1422]

no because melee has a higher skill ceiling and ranged requires the same repetitive gameplay loop of hit and run.

[@hamper700]

@@randombot1422 How does that even answer the question

[@randombot1422]

@@hamper700 that's a you problem

[@hamper700]

@@randombot1422 🎣

[@randombot1422]

@@hamper700?

[@kamikazipluto1870]

I really hope changes like this are attempted in the test servers, I've been hitting similar discussions about the random modifier removals and how that would likely be a healthy change for the game and for balancing purposes on IM's side for simplifying the design and data collection accuracy, that and I look forward to the multiclass limitations they mentioned implementing in next patch, and would like to see how they approach that aswell.

[@skylermeade]

I truly think an arena mode could be insanely good for the game. Imagine you dungeon dive to get the loot, then on the surface you fight for full loot in 1v1-3v3s in a gladiator-like setting. would give purpose to the current gameplay, and allow those who strictly enjoy it to continue that, while giving PvP heads like me our place as well. I feel this idea enriches the current gameplay while adding onto it as well. also opens the overworld/player housing ideas + allowing people to improve pvp skills reliably

[@dawsonstorry3042]

Very nice video man! Hopefully IM will take some of this into consideration. The guys over at The Darkest Hour pod gotta get you on!

[@kaide1000]

Give this man a job at IronMace

[@fatedluck7269]

Removing reselling would be really helpful to get rid of god tier kits always being made since the beat gear ever isn't always in circulation

[@matt-z5j]

I dont think we need ways to send loot up to the stash. Filling up in a floor gives you the opportunity to extract with full inventory of loot in the tier of that floor, however you can take the risk of going further down to the next floor and exchange what you already gathered with better loot. You dont have to be able to keep everything.

[@Sylvr369]

I have a topic that might add to the discussion. Dark and Darker has a ton of different tags. It brings in players from an enormous number of genres. It's First Person. It has (kinda) intricate melee combat. It's an extraction game. It has a BR zone mechanic (sometimes). It has Classes with different builds and abilities. It has Quests. It has a High Fantasy setting. It has Group play and Teamfights. It has Solo play. It has an Economy. It has complex gearing. Gear is found and randomly generated. It has Hardcore aspects (in that you usually lose your gear permanently when you die). From all this, you bring in FPS players, ARPG players, Pure RPG players, MMO players, BR players, Survival game players, maybe MOBA players, maybe Fighting Game players, etc. Hell, you even have some actual Dungeons and Dragons players. That all sounds great at a glance, right? More players = good, after all. The problem is, all these different groups of players want something different from the game. Players coming from a heavy PVP background want skill expression. They want an even playing field where skill matters more than gear. They want packed lobbies where they're going to run into other players/squads frequently. Players coming from an RPG/ARPG/MMO background, however, want to be rewarded for their time. They want to grind, and they often don't want to be interrupted while they do so. They'd be fine if they went the entire round without ever seeing another player. They also want to feel powerful at the end of their grind, so that if they DO happen to see another player down the line, they'll be capable of defending themselves, and the gear they worked so hard to get. To further convolute it, some players in BOTH of the categories above have friends to play the game with, and some don't. So here you have this huge rift in the community of this game. It's very apparent if you spend any amount of time on either the subreddit, or the Discord (I wouldn't recommend doing either...). Literally no change that IM makes will go without criticism, because there's no way to please both camps with the player count that we currently have. If we had Fortnite or CoD numbers, then sure, we could sustain enough modes to accommodate everyone, but currently, it's just not feasible. To make things worse, the split seems to go fairly cleanly along a certain Social Media line. Most Twitch Streamers and other Content Creators tend to be largely in the PVP camp, whereas most Redditors seem to be more in the RPG/Grinder camp. So when a Dev goes to a Twitch Stream or does an interview with a youtuber, or guest stars on one of the podcasts, they get one set of feedback, but if they browse the Subreddit, they get a completely different set of feedback (I'm not really sure which side the Discord would fall on. I don't have the mental fortitude to endure it long enough to see). I feel like, before we can even talk about focusing on the Core Game Loop, IM has to decide which camp they want to DEFINE the Core Game Loop. Maybe someone smarter than me has an idea of how to reconcile these 2 types of players, but I'm having trouble seeing a way to please both of them. Perhaps there could be something besides gear for the grinders to grind for? Something that doesn't contribute to PVP gear disparity. I think I've heard a couple Content Creators (Soma was 1, I think) recommend PVE only enhancements. That might be a good place to start.

[@NotLikeThisJoe]

First, thank you for the long thoughtful reply. I can tell you care about this game. I think there is a way in which we can please most of these types of players (but of course not all). We can have the sweaty hardcore pvp, but also have progression and grinding mean something without it becoming too powerful. If the playerbase expands enough, then I could see other limited game modes solving some problems too.

[@AlphaMelGibson]

I agree with most, I think the suggestions in the video mean goin down the br/pvp/extraction path. And tbh, I dont see another way, at its core this game is Tarkov but with fantasy style combat and BR elements. The Diablo players and DnD players are here, but at its core this is not the game for them, unless they are open to BR/pvpsweat aswell. This is a important aspect of why IM is going back and forth so much, the RPG people cant get a good WoW or Diablo game in DaD but we can make this a unique extraction/br/melee game. In other words, the combat has more to offer and can hang with pvpshooter titles, the lootsystems and skillstree/spell systems are very shallow compared to PoE or others.

[@beef1084]

this is all great. well put together and clearly explained

[@icejoe6534]

GREAT video! EXTREMELY well made, researched, and POINT BLANK STRAIGHT FORWARD HONEST. I was a HARDCORE DaD player since playtest 3. when EA came out i bought it SECOND 1 and was paying EVERDAY like 8-10 hours PER DAY. The whiplash of going back and forth on changes, the horrible balancing, and the LACK OF CONTENT added is what drove me to quit around December 2023. Multiclassing being added has only reinforced my drive to NOT return i HATE the lack of class identity. Then i saw they added +2 All attributed back and on more pieces like WHAT R U THINKNING IRON MACE?!?! In all my play time since playtest 3 i have been a 90% duo's player 5% solo and 5% trio. With duos being FORCED to play on the ice map (which IMO is the worst map) just ruins duo's for me. Before i quit in December (so during like November) My teammate and I did all quests except for killing the bosses 10 times because we r duos. Then they added map rotations which i thought was going to be awesome, but the duo version of the bosses were still the trio bosses and i feel they should be balanced for duo(whatever party size is on the map so like 205 health reduction and if needed mechanic rework, tho i dont think any CURRENT bosses need that as their mechanics all work). Another reason i quit as stated already was the WHIPLASH from FLIP FLOPPING on balance changes. 1 second they want longer fights then the next day they add +3 all on every piece of armor. Then they say +3 all is bad for the game but in 2 weeks they add +3 all back again. this has ruined my trust on their vision(they say they want X but do Y) and also proven to me IM just doesnt know how to balance/is not good at balancing. Another thing that drove me to quit was Barbarian/Throwing axes/Ranged meta(bows and throwables/NOT MAGIC) - Throwing axe being able to SLOW me (without Achilles strike) AND allow the barb to run faster is just simply NOT FUN. THEN ADD ACHILLIES STRIKE ON TOP OF THAT. it ruined the game. and the fact that from late October/early November to NOW APRIL 27th THIS IS STILL AN ISSUE AND STILL HAPPENING is just simple put A JOKE. secondly mentioned was ranged meta, how long does ranged meta need to be a thing until they realize its horrible??!?!? holding doorways for 5 minutes as a standoff cuz of ranged meta is NOT FUN. Why does a ranger do MORE DAMAGE than a wizard when the ranger gets to shoot IMMEDITELY vs a Wizard having to CHARGE UP his spell? I am one of the FEW ppl who dont think Cleric/Wizard is an issue. These are just a few of the reasons that drove me away from the game and have KEPT ME AWAY from the game PREVENTING ME FROM COMING BACk. one thing i lastly want to touch on is CONTENT ADDITIONS.... in NOVEMEBER IM said Druid and ice was coming next month(dec) and thn it got pushed back, then it got pushed back AGAIN, then AGAIN... DRUID IS STILL NOT OUT BUT THEY ADDED MULTICLASSING?!?!?! like wtf?!?! ADD CONTENT TO THE GAME STON FLIP FLOPPING BALANCE CHANGES WASTING MONTHS AND MOTNHS ON REPEATED MSITAKES!!!! And DONT GET ME STARTED ON HOW HORRIBLE THEM MAKING ARENA MODE IS. THAT WILL KILL THE GAME MARK MY WORDS. Dark and Darker and Dark and Darker arena WILL NOT COEXIST mark my words. One will kill the other.

[@NotLikeThisJoe]

I think a lot of the veteran players feel this way. We have love and passion for this game, but we have been confused and frustrated repeatedly by some decisions from IM.

[@NModem]

I don't have much to say, agreed with every point you made, really hope IM sees this video

[@OdinCasts]

Fantastic video, agree with basically everything that was said, and have echod the same points in nearly every way both on reddit and podcasts. I am optimistic that sdf knows what he's doing, and there are good times ahead.