The Immoral Design of Diablo Immortal

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

Addendum: Legendary Crests are even worse, update video here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/j3eQXqyqjNNro7c

[@MBSteinNL]

Josh, an FYI - D:I is NOT banned in the Netherlands and probably wouldn’t be. If you want an explanation for that, I can mail you about it. Just let me know. As for Belgium - it isn’t there but would be. The game just isn’t available in both countries.

[@j4hithb3r85]

@@MBSteinNL i'd literally pay money to have it banned in my country

[@vortraz2054]

Its pretty insulting to call people confirmation biased when their predatory bullshit ruins the game and SHOULD NEVER be allowed to exist. Who, fucking, cares, if the game was INTERESTING until it started to milk you like a slave. We dont talk about hte game being good because its fucking not its designed to be a scam and it was always going to be. Gaming is the single most cost effective form of entertainment. Thats a sustainable system thats good for everyone and these greedy fucking LOSERS want for everything to themselves

[@Xeronkar]

Let's just hope that your work will contribute to highlight predatory design practices of the mobile gaming industry, and make the laws tighten even more in the future.

[@jaobidan2358]

60$ game purchase + 15$ monthly sub with all content/gear/items/upgrades accessible via grinding would've made this game historic. Considering there's, correct me if I'm wrong, 30 million active players? That would translate to 1.8 BILLION, not counting the revenue from the monthly subs, which is 300 times more money than they've made already...Using the 6 million figure you quoted in the video.

[@Chyrosran22]

I don't give a flying fuck how enjoyable this game might be. This is unacceptable. As you point out, accepting this is encouraging the industry to make such practices standard.

[@clydecash5659]

But the current gen blizzard fans are too stupid and will buy whatever the company farts out. To say nothing of the communist bootlicking.

[@jonaseriksson3782]

You can play the game WITHOUT encouraging these practices. Don't boycott the game when that's not the issue

[@clydecash5659]

@ Jonas Eriksson Not really. It’s setup almost exactly like a slot machine where you get rewarded for putting money in.

[@onlinegosling]

@@clydecash5659 Sure, so don't let the actual game creators who put their heart and soul into designing its art, sounds, and more just because you don't like what the corporate people do. By boycotting, you're not just hurting the executives who made this monetized, but the people at the bottom who actually made the game. If you're going to take down the monetization, start from the top and don't make the creatives in the crossfire.

[@fawzanfawzi9993]

Hey, it's the keyboard guy.

[@ariweaver1543]

I really wish predatory games didn’t make so much money. It’s so frustrating to see these incredibly abusive systems financially encouraged by their victims. Thanks for the thorough breakdown of this insidious and reprehensible design.

[@matthewanderson5198]

that's WHY they make money unfortunately. These systems are well designed explicitly for this purpose.

[@F34RDSoldier805]

It's predatory because there is prey, a lot of it. And it's bound to catch some big game.

[@Stdeo7]

@@matthewanderson5198 Well if PEOPLE would stop paying for these BS cash grab games it wouldn't be a problem now would if? Why would they waste time/productivity on this shit if it wouldn't bring home the bacon..can't believe PEOPLE STILL SUPPORT this sort of "development"

[@TheRonin69xd]

Well that's exactly why gambling sites thrive so much.. they abuse the people for their greed for money and use psihological tricks to keep you in, for example i played for like a month online on a gambling site and then quit and they even called me on my personal phone to tell me about an offer for their website, they are willing to give you free stuff just to get you back in the " game ".

[@pppoopoo4514]

Sadly all it takes is a few dickheads with a thick wallet

[@macaron3141592653]

I'm shocked. I expected this game to have a bunch of overpriced microtransactions, but instead, we get the most complicated microtransaction system ever conceived. This is an advanced, almost artistic, level of deception and entrapment that we can only gasp at. The lengths people will go to line their pockets at anyone's expense is utterly unfathomable.

[@cadenvanvalkenburg6718]

Diablo immortal is what mere mobile games aspire to

[@cromulom2223]

It's beautiful

[@OneofInfinity.]

And when the corpos take fully over there will be no consumer protection anymore or anyone left that enforces it.

[@mydogeatspuke]

It was to be expected when their justification at the announcement was "you all have phones."

[@atesztoth]

@@mydogeatspukeThat was simply disgusting. 😢

[@ilfardrachadi2318]

I have to admit I did get a moment's enjoyment out of Diablo Immortal - when I went to install it to see what the gameplay was like, and realised my Note 10+ wasn't supported. It was the punchline to "Do you not have phones" that was years in the making, and I truly appreciated it.

[@PristianoPenaldoSUIIII]

That's amazing lmao

[@lordfizzz]

Whaaaat lmfao

[@Arcaleon-rb1dp]

I wanted to try Diablo Immortal out but my Ipad is an older 32gb model. The OS and current minimal files on it took up just enough space that the game was not able to be installed

[@ImDaRealBoi]

Goddamn, even your phone was disgusted by these microtransactions

[@acelacsamana694]

bro just barely dodged a bullet...well played

[@TooLoLish]

I am a lawyer in Copenhagen, Denmark, specialising in consumer rights laws (amongst other things). That loot box loophole you describe from about 29:00 on is absolutely insane. As you correctly state, it is technically legal, however it is very obviously a loophole (at least under most EU consumer rights legislation). Blizzard abusing such a loophole in legislation meant to protect a weak party (the consumer) is a stain on the gaming business, and i am very saddened that Blizzard would stoop so low. I was actually considering playing this game, but now i would sooner quit gaming, than support this kind of tendency. Furthermore, i am thoroughly convinced that this loophole will, at some point in the near future, be patched in EU legislation. Most other jurisdisctions (Chinese, American etc) generally provide much weaker consumer rights protection, and so i believe they will be able to continue this distasteful tendency there. I am actually baffled, and i am very pleased that you are shedding some much needed light on this.

[@Ryanoceros06]

Thanks for shedding some light on things from a legality point of view. I've been curious as to what lawyers think about stuff like this. All the little intricacies and loopholes, etc.

[@Daryth84]

Living in America provides some unique privileges in the value of our dollar but also huge crisis' in the values of our industries, it's tragic it has come to this. I hope the EU can close this gap soon, because my only hope for my countryman is they will see Josh's video.

[@lexide9432]

Are you truly baffled though? You do realize how much money gamers spend on twitch right? The predatory tactics with bits, gifted subs, text to speech and everything else? Why is it okay for twitch to prey on depressed gamers but its not okay for the people actually making games to do it? I dont like this monetization system either but it doesnt surprise me at all. You have to realize how much money these kids are wasting on NFTs, twitch subs, twitch bits, donations that are taxed at 40% rate and the list just keeps going. If its fine for kids to spend their lunch money to get see girls on twitch lick a microphone or bend over to write their name on a whiteboard then what blizzard is doing 100% within the lines of what is " moral " nowdays.

[@royhuang9715]

This game is designed by NetEase, I believed Blizzard doesn’t have much input for this game for its design or gameplay, however I could be wrong. NetEase is a horrible company for everyone except share holders. Their game looks attractive with OK graphics and game mechanics but they want your wallet, they want it bad, they want it now. NetEase has a history of worker abuses, the most famous being one in 2019. The company adopted 995 work schedule, aka work from 9am to 9pm 5 days a week. No pay raise, no benefit nothing. Simply force people to accept 60 hour work week or get fired. which is actually against Chinese labor law but the Chinese Capitalists Party doesn’t gives a shit only communist would care labor rights. Other reason they can get away is other Chinese firms adopted 72 hour or longer work week. This is what neoliberalism does and want, it’s just sad the world 2 largest economy are ran by neoliberals.

[@Akab]

@@royhuang9715 blizzard is long dead, a rotting corpse of what it once was. xD

[@CHEFPKR]

The putting 3 legendary crests and being prompted to add 7 more for a total of 10 is right out of Las Vegas slot machines. Why spend $2 on a crap bet when you can spend $10 on the ULTRA MAX BET?

[@Ziegfried82]

Always hit max bet. You're there to lose money and have fun doing it!

[@gamerdood15]

I don't know about you guys, but that's what I do whenever I go to a casino. I'm there to lose chunks of money at once, not pennies, dammit!

[@bestieswithtesties]

Part of me wants to say that it's just insane blizzard dedicated so much time and effort into figuring out how to methodically and systematically exploit whales/gamblers to the absolute extremes... but then I realize it's not that crazy at all. Of Course they just copied casinos and then took it to new extremes. Welcome to the future of gaming. It's a shame that more countries, the US especially, don't have stricter anti-gambling laws to keep this kind of nonsense out of video games and locked inside casinos where it belongs.

[@michaelthomas5433]

Those one armed bandits have gone digital.

[@Draknfyre]

@@bestieswithtesties Literally every single game with monetization and lootboxes does this. People still stupidly think lootboxes are RNG. They're not; they're rigged as hell and drop/trickle wins at the minimum amount required before the average player stops feeding money in. Based on studies done for Vegas casinos.

[@xuvial1391]

Blizzard were at their peak when they borrowed good ideas from other games and combined + polished it into an amazing product. With Diablo Immortal, they did it again...but this time they took the the most UNETHICAL monetization tactics from all successful mobile/gacha/p2w games and combined it into a single monstrosity. Diablo Immortal is the perfectly calculated final form of predatory monetization in gaming. It's like something made in a laboratory by a team of sales analysts, psychologists, lawyers, etc.

[@yosengi]

But they can’t beat GGG’s Path Of Exile.

[@slimakovamamam]

@@yosengi really ? where is problem of buying stash place for more place or better cathegoring ? U can play without it literaly forewer and u are fine . Or maybe i dont understand what u mean ?

[@espirulografo]

Blizzard long ago corrupted soul ...

[@marusgoren9977]

ITs only an issue when Dota was born out of that rotting corpse of a company that they got sour

[@genultz4866]

See, now the main guy who was the lead behind it, took a literal class on how to be a scumbag mobile game developer, he literally went to China and took a literal class on how to have scummy monetization because in China it's the norm, it's perfectly fine and nobody bats an eye at dropping thousands (USD) on a mobile game or multiple mobile games.

[@bluexephosfan970]

Funnily enough, as someone who struggles with gambling, whenever I get the itch to play rewatching this video helps me fight off the urge lol

[@XxfieryfirexX]

Stop letting them steal your money

[@coren5911]

​@@XxfieryfirexX it's not that easy

[@ImDaRealBoi]

Ey, take care yourself and keep fighting. Hope you'll be able to work past your addictions so games like these won't take advantage of you.

[@ribz4539]

Stay strong champion

[@pvshka]

Diablo Immortal: Making people disgusted with gambling since 2022

[@AshenVictor]

The counterpoint to people saying "I'm having fun" is that you're having fun now, but the game is designed to make sure you have progressively *less* fun as you play until you get frustrated enough to reach into your pocket.

[@Nerazmus]

This is a diablo game. You know. The game known for audience that is known for farming their perfect gear for literal years.

[@shanemente]

well, I suppose that is when I will stop playing. not sure why people are so mad about this game like its some surprise

[@jamesbaggett3655]

Yet ive never spent an extra penny on any game. Side note i saw a commercial for a new torchlight game 😂

[@SiaLiroH]

And then they don't believe you, because it hasn't happened to them yet.

[@TheFinalTidus]

And then they will justify spending money at that point saying something like "Well I had fun for x hours so far for free so it's no big deal to spend a few dollars." and they got caught in the trap perfectly.

[@bangormc3rd562]

People defending Diablo Immortal because the gameplay is solid are like fish defending the fishing hook because the bait is tasty.

[@franciscobrisolladeoliveir9596]

The gameplay IS solid. I just wish Blizzard would've taken the PoE approach for mtx then, most likely, people would focus on the crap PC port for DI

[@Inojin67]

@@franciscobrisolladeoliveir9596 They don't want PoE money, they want FIFA money

[@ManGrieves]

I don't hear anyone defending the monetization, no one "wants" it. People are just wanting to play the game and not have the politics of monetization brought into every conversation about the game. If nothing is physically being done to stop monetization then there is a point when complaining and being outraged online gets annoying for those just wanting to chill out and play a game they are enjoying.

[@AngelBattosai27]

The gameplay is good. The monetization system is bad because it doesn't give you anything very good over a f2p player : - Legendary gems doesn't give a huge powerlevel increase (about 5% increase for people spending under 200$) - Legendary gems doesn't have visual "qualities" : compare one little shiny rock to actual characters with a whole "design" - The "icebreaker" is lame : it gives a very small amount of market currency (can't buy anything) and a shit cosmetic, so the icebreaker effect is about giving the idea to the player that it's actually not worth to spend money - One time packs : are lame too and doesn't give anything good too - Whales can be wrecked even if you are a f2p player : it's "bad" because whales don't want to deal with weakness, they just want to roll over everyone. Especially in PvP mode in a mobile game. This game is actually one of the most f2p friendly mobile game on the market for all those reasons. And I would add that complaining about not being "competitive" in a mobile game, and more precisely in mobile PvP game mode... is dumb by design. If you want to feel "competitive", you don't want to be on a mobile game firstly.

[@Inojin67]

@@AngelBattosai27 As the guy at Bellular News says, the gameplay of the initial few hours is good BECAUSE they are trying their damnedest to lure you into a trap of predatory monetization later in the game

[@ThinkyBoi42]

When I heard the ‘per account’ bombshell, my jaw dropped and it made me realise They spent the majority of design,thought, energy, time and money… on how best to con players out of more money. It’s almost commendable…almost

[@haveyouseenchefplis932]

you mean per character?

[@mattaffenit9898]

@@BrokePencil Diablo 4 is a separate game, I think. At the very least the art style is different, but uh... I don't trust Blizzard.

[@mattaffenit9898]

@@BrokePencil Yes.

[@Damaniel3]

To be fair, JSH's favorite game (Runescape) does the exact same thing, and as someone with a main and ironman who has to pay twice for membership, it's kind of annoying. That certainly doesn't make the whole thing less predatory though.

[@eewweeppkk]

@@Damaniel3 That's a bit of apples and oranges, though. Runescape isn't a class based system like Diablo.

[@ModularKnight]

"If you've never played a Diablo game, here's a basic rundown: Demons exist, and you'd really rather they didn't. You can realize your dream of a demon-free world through the power of friendship and incredible violence." Quite possibly the best line I've heard from a video essay yet. Beautiful.

[@MetalCharlo]

@type36hachimoto92 DOOM and Diablo are basically non-identical twin brothers

[@phlumpers]

@Type 36 Hachimoto Where is friendship involved in doom?

[@ramiel7666]

@@phlumpers Daisy? You also had a good ai aide and a dude with with a lot of courage helping Doomguy.....

[@jmurray1110]

Vega

[@Xanderinkartist117]

@@ramiel7666 thats in the modern games, Classic doom was just you running around labyrinths murdering every demonic meatball you can see alone

[@nambreadnam]

The crowd booed when it was revealed that D:I was a mobile game. The response of "what, you guy's don't have phones?" was entirely missing the reason people were unhappy. We knew EXACTLY how this game was going to turn out. As an aside, we need to be careful that this isn't a cynical push to shift the overton window surrounding mobile monetisation. They may have fully expected the blowback, to then concede on monetisation systems they knew wouldn't sit well, so the players will say "oh it's not as bad as it was" when in actuality it's still much worse than other comparable titles.

[@ReikuYin]

I'm shocked, shocked I say, that their reaction to the backlash so far would be an equally tone deaf, "What? You guys don't have jobs?"

[@aquilliusranger2137]

That question alone from the exec is exactly why this decision executed every goodwill and humility they will ever have.

[@neon_pixels]

Oh, I'm certain they know why people were unhappy. I just don't think they care. The mobile monetization model (I won't even call it "gaming") is too lucrative, and they want to move towards it.

[@TobiasT96]

The thing is they don't give a fuck how badly the crowd reacts because at the end of the day Diablo Immortal is incredibly successfull.

[@Edax_Royeaux]

@@TobiasT96 At the severe cost of reputation and potential legal trouble.

[@SirSnoozebutton]

Thanks for creating awareness around these incredibly cynical piece of garbage systems. Showed this to a friend who deleted the game, even though he didn't spend any money yet. In the grand scheme it's not much but it's all we can do. Just vote with our wallets and boycott predatory crap like this.

[@blank-3403]

Woah money

[@Pat315]

How much is 100 nok

[@Linkmitch]

dood how come i'm seeing this for the first time?

[@thegreatfitzgerald2660]

@@Pat315 around 10 USD

[@sensudubs4421]

Im also curious about this donation thing. This is the first im seeing of this.

[@andymcdougall9385]

It saddens me that we now essentially have a generation of young gamers who have grown up with this type of manipulative monetisation as the norm. Gaming was such an important and enjoyable part of my childhood and I don’t see how young people today can enjoy it as a hobby in the same way I was able to given the route the industry has gone.

[@btarczy5067]

There are still ethical developers out there and it’s important to hold the ones who aren’t to that standard. To anyone raising kids understanding which games are and which aren’t exploitative is an important concern - if the kids are interested in games at all, that is. While there were exploitatively monetized games like the Magic or Pokemon card games in the past, incentivizing addictive spending has now become the industry standard to the extent that the worst offenders also have the marketing budget to push the good ones to the wayside. At this point there still are alternatives so media literacy is important for anyone but especially parents so they don’t end up in a situation in which they either allow or forbid everything.

[@Yourebeautyfull]

In the old days all you needed to be good at a particular game was put a lot of experience into it. These days all you need to be competive is rich parents. Times have changed a lot! :D

[@kevinarnold8634]

In the case of Diablo, it's quite easy. A new version of Diablo (plus Hellfire) made to work with modern operating systems is available at GOG. Diablo II Remastered and Diablo III are available from Blizzard. Each provides virtually unlimited entertainment and none have manipulative monetization. Grim Dawn has a similar feel, at least up to the Forgotten Gods expansion. Path of Exile is free, but has lacking base inventory. However, adequate inventory shouldn't cost more than a b2p ARPG and then you're set forever unless you also want to buy cosmetics. There are others as well. The genre has a wealth of options these days that provide good value for the money.

[@Astares9]

@albert einstien that game sucks

[@loulou3676]

@@AcousticOlli I've noticed this in a lot of different things. People lose interest in real life romance because AVs and waifus are crafted to give the same pleasure in a stronger and more condensed form. Lose interest in eating fresh healthy homemade meals because fast food is a tasty meal dense in sugar and fat. Lose interest in meaningful narratives because 30 second TikTok clips provide faster payoff. Or in the case of your cousin lose interest in well made video games because a mobile gacha game has far more flashy lights and rewards popping up constantly. The problem seems to be that the short term appeal of a product that provides what we think we want in high levels and instantaneously, dulls our senses to enjoy a cheaper but more authentic alternative that is better for us in the long run. It's not that different from people shooting up drugs to feel good in the short run while destroying their mind and body in the long run. In some weird way the gacha game developers/AV website runners/fast food executives are on their own hedonistic treadmill. They know their product is harming society, but they have their own addiction, an addiction to making lots of money very quickly. I guess this is just society destroying itself over time because our lizard brains are too vulnerable to make good decisions in the face of temptation

[@xenxander]

In case you don't check his other video about this out: The servers restrict your exp level. If you are above the server level, the displayed exp you earn is not what you actually earn.. the higher the level you are, the greater the difference you are from the meta level of the server, the less exp you actually earn, down to basically zero.. unless you're doing rifts that are opened with legendary crests. Also orange drops go to zero after a certain number of runs unless it's legendary rifts opened with those crests.

[@blippedyblop]

Just remember, folks. Blizzard spent a great deal of time researching this, no doubt hiring teams to best exploit psychological techniques to fool you into parting with your cash.

[@joelwillis2043]

Industry standard.

[@EnglishInfidel]

*to fool fools into parting with their cash. I'm going to be just fine, and I'm betting so will you.

[@jackcoleman1784]

If by hiring teams you mean hiring Netease.

[@vhyles]

Hiring teams of shrinks whose sole job is how to hook a player up with casino-like strategies, totally disregarding his wellbeing while predatorially going after his pockets and while also hypocritically ignoring their so-called mottos. I don't think a gaming company will be able to reach a lower ethical point, maybe ever. If you look up the word "zero integrity" in the dictionary, the very first definition will be "Blizzard". Apparently there is no limit on greed. Shame on these people.

[@TheAssassin642]

@@EnglishInfidel like seriously, we do people even try to stop scam/con artists in the real world? Why not legalise that? Like, only stupid people get conned, not people like us. We would never fall for a scam. I would never make the sunk cost fallacy or any of the others that are used against us because they're inherent to the human mind and must be learned about to avoid making them. But yeah, let people scam irl. Only fools will fall for it. Shit, why even have laws regarding what can and can't be sold and for how much. Not like that would be abused

[@Gilambesh]

I was in the room when the booing for immortal happened. The recordings were edited as it was so much louder in person.

[@pandarieus]

im not surprised that they were trying to save face after announcing that theyre making a mobile game because mobile games are so profitable for the wrong/unethical reasons

[@Carnyzzle]

What's fantastic is that this is exactly what we feared when blizzard announced a Diablo mobile game

[@locutusvonborg2k3]

yes, blizz knew that and gave 0 fgs. thats how much they care about the user compared to the wallet

[@thefirstloser]

Diablo 4 will be a MTX party...

[@Idiosynchrosis]

To be honest, it's not what i expected exactly. I expected a very p2w mobile port of diablo 3. Not a mobile port of diablo 3 SO PAY-TO-WIN that not only got preemptively banned on some European countries, but it reached a new low on p2w mobile games, making games like Genshin Impact and Epic Seven blush. Must say, being this scummy takes effort.

[@autobotstarscream765]

@@thefirstloser Remember when they did this to D3 at first? D4 is screwed at launch... 😬

[@aternialaffsalot]

Yep, people knew what was to come literally years in advance when it was first announced. Everyone complaining about this is like the single most epic circlejerk in internet history.

[@quietspark8703]

Golden Age of Gaming: "How can we maximize fun in our game? How can we push technology and use it to innovate creative game design?" Modern Gaming: "How can we use a minimum viable product to psychologically influence the masses to spend as much money as possible and keep them psychologically hooked as long as possible?"

[@ReikuYin]

Forgot a bit on that last one. "How can we do all that AND then still hold good faith when the second it is not raking in money, we drop the service so people, even those that might have liked it or actually put money into can't use the thing they purchased."

[@sssenseiii]

We ARE in the golden age of gaming, you just point at the worst parts of modern gaming and ignore that 99% of everything sucked back in the day. There were 4000 ps2 games, make that 99.9% of games being bad. Oh, and no patches to fix said games. Or returns.

[@theRealSlimGordon]

​@@sssenseiii if this is the golden age, then I shiver at the idea of what it'll become. Also, games back then weren't nearly as broken on release as they are today

[@basedeltazero714]

​@@theRealSlimGordon An awful lot of them were. It's just that they stayed broken and were thus forgotten, never to resurface - except perhaps on the Angry Video Game Nerd show. Also, don't forget the classic arcade quarter-munchers and how their legacy affected early console gaming. Monetization over gameplay is nothing new.

[@vpaul4374]

"minimum viable product"? scrap that, we are making a minimum viable Service, since products can only be sold once while service is virtually an endless money sink

[@Jahodaseslehackou]

This game turned out to be a really nice cash shop simulator. Only occasionally are my spending sessions interrupted by an inconsequential minigame, where I have to run around with a small character and do some stuff (this part looks almost like in those old "arpg"games). I feel really heroic while dual wielding my credit cards!

[@Obelion_]

i wonder when they just cut out the game entirely, cant be long anymore

[@undertyped1]

To me it's like, hey, if it's what the people want, it's what the people want. If people are happy with being treated as loot pinyatas to be harpooned by blizzard predatory systems, then who am I to argue?

[@ryno4ever433]

Some gacha games are just all menus, so some companies have already been doing what you described for years.

[@viktoryordanov2543]

@@ryno4ever433 true, but here we talk about a AAA company that is famous for delivering great games over the years and having a massive community. So this sort of practice is insulting not only to the players but also to the developers and ppl responsible for creating these games till now. I personally expect this sort of systems to exist for indy games where their only way of earning money is through microtransactions in-game, but Blizzard has multiple other ways to do so and also to do effectively.

[@HabboDeManager]

@@undertyped1 The people don't want this. Human psychology wants this. It's wrong and so are you.

[@DarkViperAU]

When TakeTwo purchased Zynga, this game's monetization system was what I feared they'd shove into a future GTA title as it feels like all this stemmed from when Activision Blizzard bought King. You buy a mobile game company and suddenly everything has to make that mobile game money...

[@minddtrixxter4983]

it's him! hi!

[@DillonMeyer]

I remember in 2018 there was a leaked investor call between Activision, Blizzard, KING, Square Enix, and a few other major game companies. They talked about quarters earning and KING had earned five times the amount Call of Duty and World of Warcraft had earned in a year in just one quarter. It's just a shame. This was of course, before the Blizzard Activision merger, and before KING was bought out. It's just shameless and stems not from "Horse Armor" as some streamers might be saying, but rather from KING, developers of Candy Crush, Soda Crush, and other similar mobile games that essentially created the "pay to progress faster and easier" methodology. Their version was a bit more simple and less directly "fuck you pay me", as it was games targeted mostly towards facebook moms. A sad story.

[@Gigawood]

@@DillonMeyer funny you mention that - Jim Sterling had a video a few years back about “the most influential game of the decade”…and the title went to Clash of Clans because CEOs couldn’t stop talking about how the game was fucking monetized.

[@minddtrixxter4983]

@@DillonMeyer I think you missed his point, yes mobile games themselfes do make more money than pc games (which is kind of obvious since countries like china and india have massive mobile player bases) but being a gaming company and buying up a mobile gaming company doesn't (or shouldn't) be a reason to put this business model in all of you other products. My 2 cents are that we need to learn to let go of franchises. Diablo 2 was THE game of my childhood, but after I've heard it's coming to mobile and it's controlled by a chinese mobile games company I knew that it's just the same mobile game a third of china plays on their phones, just reskinned with the Diablo franchise. People attach themselfes to franchises like they are their moms, I don't get it. We've learned this lesson way too many times for this kind of thinking to be excused. Diablo Immortal is just not a Diablo game, but Diablo fans see it as one and are upset that it's not up to their standarts. Stop loving franchises, start loving games people

[@artseyy]

Impossibile

[@sentretsparkle]

15:02 *reading chat* JSH: no one is against the game making money, it's the fact it's so predatory OreoMuffin: technically everything is predatory Truly the greatest philosopher of our time

[@spacebassist]

Remember how humans evolved to eat each other and pilfer each others' food supply and condition the children to give them their parents food? Right guys? Guys??

[@The13thGhostBunny]

Just one of those people thinking they're being smart. xD

[@evoke2976]

@@The13thGhostBunny everyone thinks they are smart

[@Zeronightmarefox]

Charity Organizations: Are we the bad guys too? Point being: dollar store puddle deep wisdom from someone probably paying a lot for a shitty game.

[@derekrequiem4359]

@@The13thGhostBunny Technically all people think they're smart - OreoMuffin, probably

[@T41Thomas020]

I know that it was probably not intended,but i love how all the different currencies appear in the video.They start off at the corners and the top part of the screen,in a non intrusive way,but then they start to clutter the screen more and more,to the point where you cant even see the gameplay in the background.It’s basically a representation of the effect the insane amount of different currencies have in game

[@GuidesForUsAll]

Thank you for this video Josh, not just for the entertainment, but also for the objective information that can be pointed to to show exactly why these kinds of games are so bad for the industry and for consumers.

[@gamingtank234]

Nice to see you here

[@dken0r216]

Hi collection log man

[@lostempyrean]

Collection log guy Pog

[@ClaSiiCs]

funny seeing you here

[@FlightLine4240]

Ay much love Guides!

[@brianviktor8212]

It started with "don't you guys have phones?!" - what did you expect? Well, to be fair, I didn't expect it to be that insanely predatory and usurious.

[@navins11]

"don't you guys have MONEY?!"

[@genoob5843]

“Imagine not having 100k bucks at your disposal, couldn’t be me” -Blizzard employees

[@mjkittredge]

Don't you guys have lootboxes?

[@volkerxd8821]

I did I have no clue why this games monetisation shocks anyone

[@minimalphilia]

@@volkerxd8821 We all knew it would probably be this. Well not this bad, since nothing has ever been this bad. But a part of me wished, Blizzard actually tried to understand the bad feedback.

[@monkinator]

my jaw dropped when you said that these microtransactions were PER CHARACTER. I already thought it was bad but that is just preposterous. I cannot believe Blizzard took one of the greatest franchises in gaming and ruined it.

[@droid3411]

i cant believe you would expect them not to ruin it

[@godsigner]

Per character, server locked. (If you ever want to play with a friend who started on another server, you have to pay up again)

[@xomox5316]

nasty people eventually capture what was once loved franchises, star wars is the shinning example

[@Vespyr_]

@@droid3411 Some of us remember Blizzard being an incredible developer.

[@imran8880]

@@droid3411 ignorance is bliss. Don't spoil the joyride for him in the rabbit hole

[@LibraryofZin]

"...are per CHARACTER!" hit like a soap opera twist, half expected an organ. Absolutely stunlocked me

[@Gigawood]

My god, this is...horrifying. I knew it was bad, but I'm completely speechless after watching this. Thank you for being so thorough in your coverage. Everyone needs to know how predatory games have gotten.

[@boagspremium]

Yes. Unfortunately this isn't a solely Diablo Immortal problem, its a mobile gaming problem.

[@Gigawood]

@@boagspremium YEP. 😑 which really bothers me since my niece and nephew both play a lot of phone games etc. hell, even Roblox content is littered with micro transactions.

[@Kelenae]

"But its on mobile so its normal for this" I hate this argument because we know AAA Company's want this to be normal on all platforms so they can make soo much money. With little effort to make a good game.

[@Chasodey]

And you know what? It's even worse because he almost left out the Legendary gem part. Not only they are effectively bought in lootboxes of Elder rifts they also are diversified into star rating system. You can get 1 out of 1 gems, 2 out of 2 and from 2 to 5 out of 5 star gems. And as you can get 5 out of 5 are the best gems. And these gems also require upgrading. With other legendary gems as food and source of gem power. And you can have 6 gems in your gear. But wait, there is more! You can use your fully upgraded gem of rank 10 (any star gem if I remember correctly, thanks on that) to awaken a single piece of gear (and it requires an ADDITIONAL consumable for CASH) and then that single piece of gear will be able to have 2 legendary gems at once. So eventually after spending ocean of money your character will be stuffed with 12 fully upgraded legendary gems. And all those gems will have a Gem Resonance which will upgrade your base stats in percent. And the better gems you have the more resonance and therefore stats your character will have completely outgearing free-to-play players. And don't forget that it's per character, not account.

[@Nostromo2144]

What, do you guys not have wallets??? :D Plenty other great iso arpgs out now and in the works. I recommend PoE, Grim Dawn, Inquisitor Martyr & we'll be grabbing Last Epoch as soon as co-op is out. Path of Diablo is the best Diablo version out there, if you're not a hopeless graphics whore. Even D2R was pointless, so I didn't support it.

[@Liyern]

It's so sad to see. I remember the day when I went out buying Diablo 2 with a group of friends back in 2000, we had to all get written permission from our parents to buy it cause it was a 18+ rated game (we were all around the age of 11-12) where we lived. I've enjoyed that game off and on for 19 years and experienced everything that game had to offer over and over again and it never got bored for me. I spent 50 bucks and never a dime more on a game that gave me 19 years of playtime, and full access to all of it's features from the start, never asking me for more. What the hell has happened

[@ragreff5603]

Shareholders and corporations

[@pddaawwgg]

Same here… those were the days. Corporate greed happened. Sadge

[@Krysnha]

What happen, shareholders, corporations,, greed. And yes i know, i remember old consoles that give you years of fun, wiouth lootboxes, i have play old games like crazy, remember mi pc, and remember games like jade empire, star wars empire at war, evil genious, and many more, no loot boxes, no microtransacitons, emulators, i have emulators and see the amount of games there, old times, old times long gone

[@Croc.]

Capitalism be capitalising

[@rushi5638]

Short of voting for someone who would have started a nuclear war with China and turned that entire market into charcoal, I don't think you could have avoided Diablo Immortal turning out like this.

[@asherdales]

I've always found the devs saying they play the game in ftp and are "competitive" the same as "we have investigated ourselves and have found no wrong doing."

[@Ziegeri]

Well they are selling a product, it is not wrong, but lying about being competive is wrong.

[@SakuyaFM4]

I feel like this is a reference to the TSM incident but if not, I'm still gonna pretend it was.

[@Dragon-Believer]

What rea$on would they have to lie?

[@malding8643]

@@Dragon-Believer Great que$tion!

[@Gibby34340]

Kinda sounds like US politics...

[@robinauseer499]

I remember bingeing Diablo III and consequently becoming interested in Diablo Immortal. I live under a rock, so I missed ALL of the controversy surrounding it beforehand (but started becoming exposed to it as I was playing). But even before I saw that controversy, it was... *very* obvious just how hard they were pushing microtransactions. You just cleared your first dungeon, congrats! Would you like to buy more dungeon-related loot? You just cleared your second dungeon, congrats! Would you like to buy more dungeon-related loot? You learned about rifts! But if you want anything good within a reasonable amount of time, you need better and more crests. Would you like to buy loads and loads of crests for lots of money? Do you want these cool cosmetics? Do you want to pay for a monthly subscription? Better gear? To get stronger? Just getting beaten over the head with offers and deals and FOMO, it was exhausting!

[@FutaCatto2]

I never understood why you people enjoyed Diablo. The gameplay and story does not look interesting compared to Baldur's Gate 3 which is the superior Roleplaying game. Unlike Blizzard, Larian Studios does not include predatory monetization schemes into their games.

[@robinauseer499]

@@FutaCatto2 Once upon a time, Blizzard was passionate about making games and not sucking their fans dry of money, and the older Diablo games were great fun and didn't beat you in the streets with microtransactions. They're fun to a lot of people, myself included, because loot pinatas make goblin brain go brrr (I'm not saying BG3 is bad; in fact, I want to play it, but I currently cannot afford it). Activision-Blizzard now uses the love all these fans have of these properties to keep them hooked and perhaps hoping that one day, things will return to being better.

[@sdsdfdu4437]

@@FutaCatto2 what do you mean, "you people"

[@joosttijsen3559]

bigger number = fun @@FutaCatto2

[@Leo.de69]

​@@FutaCatto2diablo is the progenitor of all loot based RPGs. Without diablo there would be no destiny, borderlands, PoE etc.

[@HEYBUDDYMAN86]

I know Josh said “there is no way to transfer character between servers.” I think this might be intentional. You or a friend start on the wrong server and have already been invested enough and want to play with each other? Well one of you will need to restart. But you’ll be behind your friend. What’s the best way to catch up with this friend? Well wouldn’t you know…

[@jonsi3559]

It would also require repurchasing all those things that were locked to your character. Definitely intentional.

[@ofrocks]

it's probably because they'll release new servers in the future and plan to market cross-server pvp. This always catch new whales.

[@diablocell]

No shared stash between your characters?? How could they have possibly forgotten that?! Oh, thats right, they forgot on purpose.

[@Guhonter]

As Josh keeps explaining the abusive mechanics I just imagined the designers of said systems sitting in meetings, deperately trying not to burst out in mad cackles as they refine their schemes, Eventually they just give up pretemding to have moral standards and through locked doors the roar of mad laughter can be heard as more and more predatory designs get hammered into the presentation for final design.

[@jackreacher4297]

It looks just like Dr.Evils table in Austin Powers

[@MichaSennin]

those meetings are held by only a few people with real power. it's pretty destil actually. it's a normal Corporate meeting with at least one person from the publisher. not a single person from the Dev team is in the room. you guys watched too much Austin Powers. Those are real Corporate people, if you would laugh like this they would remove you from the meeting asap.

[@adamofblastworks1517]

@@MichaSennin well they didn't say that they expected them to *actually* be doing that, but fair enough.

[@czarkusa2018]

@@MichaSennin Dystopias are quite boring.

[@TheGreatDanish]

True evil is banal. They just calmly detailed that low reward rates would improve revenue by some significant percentage, the people in power agreed, and the game, and the systems were rubber stamped.

[@Sarshu]

When Josh was displaying all of the currencies all I could think of was Ready Player One: "We estimate we can sell up to eighty percent of an individuals visual field, before inducing seizures."

[@belorianuskane1952]

This!

[@CharlesXIIOfMerica]

That movie was so incredibly close to making a point yet falls on its face when it gets lost in the plot.

[@TDestro9]

When he was going of the currancies he lost me after gold

[@matthewkeating6970]

Great vid

[@mizuiwai1837]

@@CharlesXIIOfMerica first of all its source material is a book so its plot was already in existence. second if you mean the book almost made a point and then didnt because it chose to have fulfilling character arcs instead (i assume this is what you mean by gets lost in the plot), well, congratulations, you have missed the point. it was written as a fun story with maaaaybe some moralizing/didactic storytelling on the side. not the other way round. if you want "educational content" or bullshit that prioritizes making a point OVER its plot, go watch a fucking documentary you loser

[@anastrophethis]

I'm a year late, but it just struck me: Compare these prices to the value you would get by buying... say.... Slay the Spire on mobile. The value to cost proposition is just mind boggling.

[@themugwump33]

It breaks my heart that developers are starting to refer to single player console masterpieces without micro transactions like Elden Ring as “legacy games”

[@ImmaSpam__________________Can]

Wait who refered to elden ring as a legacy game, I wish to know which publisher/developer did so I can avoid their games entirely

[@o_sagui6583]

Well, they are not wrong, fully fledged video games are a lost art that nowadays seems to only be sustained via selfless crowdfunding methods Good for games with a lot of creative lead behind them Bad for games focused around simulations God I just wanted another fun and compelling racing game just like ps2 and ps3 generations Now it's all oversaturated hyper casual hyper crunched pieces of dogshit, and when they aren't that, well then they are locked behind different platforms all together

[@truecaliber1995]

That's the strategy: Gas light the average customer into believing games without monetization are "outdated", and they'll eventually start buying into this narrative. In other words, repeat a lie enough times and some people will begin believing it.

[@MikeIce4SG]

Only in EA

[@qu1253]

Sadly they pretty much are. The entire industry is moving towards microtransction driven live services and mobile games. As great of a game as Elden Ring is, the amount of money it's made isn't even 1% of what Diablo Immortal made in less than a month. Thing is, developers like From Software and Platinum Games aren't all that profitable. They pretty much scrape by from game to game. They'll eventually be forced to adopt this business model to stay afloat or get bought out by a larger company.

[@Jnihil00]

One correction in regards to D3's cash shop. The issue wasn't tied to some sense of accomplishment that was being bypassed by the cash shop, it's that items were being rolled nonsensically and this *forced* players into using the cash shop to get reasonably rolled weapons. To give an example, I could get class restricted gear, let's say Barbarian great swords, but they would have affixes that would buff Demon Hunter skills and buff Monk related stats. This happened, all the time. You would get so much trash gear that was completely unusable with the goal to push you to using the cash shop. When Act-Blizz removed the cash shop, funny thing, gear rolled all in class all the time.

[@Quztuk]

Yup. I was a launch day D3 player, and that was fucking infuriating. It's a damn good game, now, but it kinda sucked at launch.

[@Mr.Spongecake]

I wish I could say I'm surprised that Blizzard pulled this garbage. I wish I could say I was surprised that Wyatt Cheng said that "you never pay money for gear" when gems are gear by every definition and you pay out the nose for them. But I'm not. And I think that sucks more than if I was.

[@dunkdamonk]

Yeah you won't pay money for gear. But you will need to pay money to use it. Have fun!

[@Damaniel3]

You're not paying for just gear, but something far more important than the items you socket them in to. Gear is nearly irrelevant to a min-maxed player - 4/5 and 5/5 star gems will easily eclipse the stats of anything you put them in. Resonance is the key stat that dictates health and damage, and resonance does *not* scale linearly with gem level - higher level gems have much higher proportional resonance than lower level ones. Essentially, the entire gear system exists as a way to make the gems relevant, and making the gems relevant exists as a way to get players to pay for them.

[@johnherrera5261]

Gotta make up for the sexual assault law suits somehow

[@Xiaara_Quala]

And then Cheng had the audacity to reply to someone "but it isn't directly paying for gear so I never lied to you guys" lol this dude

[@Jack-ni2qs]

@@Xiaara_Quala to be fair, he has to say anything in defense of the company and game by contract. He can't give you an honest response by design.

[@Dungeon47]

39:12 Incredible writing. You dropped the beat 39 minutes in, and what a payoff. I thought I was sufficiently horrified at this game, but that last single fact put it all in hellish perspective.

[@scottcomber]

This sort of thing is important to document, so we can really dig in and see all the poor behaviour and make sure it is well understood how aggressive the greed is.

[@Wockes]

And then come back in 10 years and laugh at how naive we were once normal is p2w

[@holographicfrog1503]

I really don't get why people don't have complete apathy to this bullshit. That would actually hurt them where it needs to. Vote with your wallet, in this case your attention.

[@DoingFavors]

Wait until they make WoW Mobile and it's "F2P" don't believe me?...that's fine...that's just fine.

[@jaymeeduhh]

Its funny how many people have no idea was gacha is

[@luxsignifer6996]

and to see where it all started to go to shit

[@Nightweaver1]

The worst part of these kinds of games is that they are very carefully designed to take advantage of human psychology and prey upon our weakness to gamble and take chances, as well as to make our lives easier with convenience through heavy amounts of MTX and pay to win. It's almost like these companies hire psychologists to data mine how gamers behave in order to best take advantage of them monetarily. I'm pretty sure mobile game companies do that as well. Thankfully, a lot of us are smarter than this, and can see right through their tricks.

[@lexide9432]

Same thing can be said about twitch and its predatory systems. Its fine to donate to streamers even tho 40% of that money is taxed and goes to the government. Its fine to pay girls on twitch to lick a microphone or to dress half naked and bend over to write the name of subs on a whiteboard but what blizzard is doing is SOOOO IMMORAL right??? Gamers are very stupid. Blizzard is just cashing out on the stupidity just like twitch is. But at least blizzard is producing a product that took actual work to create. Think about it.

[@irritatingtruth9121]

I kind of cannot help but laugh at this point. "You have phones don't you?", followed by, "BOO!".... Diablo Releases 30 MILLION download. Sounds about right.

[@jont2576]

@@irritatingtruth9121 1 week later number of active players online.....300. cue curb ur enthusiasm music.

[@XeyeshootX]

Hej Night, UX Design is a profession these days which is all about measuring, understanding and playing into the experience of your consumer (could be a website, an app, a game or any analog product). These often consist of teams where indeed psychologists / usability designers do exactly what you describe: analyze, understand the consumers way of using the product and finding a way to make profit on it. It is quite malicious to be used in this way, I would say.

[@darkomihajlovski3135]

@@jont2576 on pc maybe on phone its still gona prosper there far worse games whith similarly horrible monetization that make millions

[@robertstan298]

You forgot how there's 6 classes... but you only have 5 character slots. I haven't tried filling all the 5 slots with characters... but I'm pretty sure once you do that, you'll get a prompt telling you you can buy a 6th slot... "conveniently".

[@VRDejaVu]

Well, that 6 classes 5 slots thing is not new. Aeria did it in most of their games and there wasnt an option to buy more slots.

[@bronzejourney5784]

And? Whats wrong with that?

[@UNLKYHNTR]

I was like "holy balls, that's some next level greed" throughout the video, because the greed just didn't end...then he dropped the bomb about ALL of the money spent isn't locked to account, BUT CHARACTER!!! I literally had to pause the video at that point and take a lap. Holy. Fucking. Shit. I can't comprehend that amount of greed. That part turned the whole video into a lucid fever dream. What the actual fuck, I had absolutely no idea.

[@wyx1762]

They know they've gone too far on this one and that's their plan. They're going to say they "fixed" things, "We hear you" and "We're listening". When in reality they've just conditioned us into thinking things are better. This game will NEVER not be P2W. It's too late for them to remove that. Don't get roped in when they give us these worthless promises in future.

[@bond0815]

I dont thing they are going to even pretend. They know what they designed and they'll laugh all the way to the bank from the mobile money alone. Blizzard is done as a beloved gamer company and sadly they probably now make more money than ever. Chinas Netease + mobile users + whales will take care of that.

[@alextygesen3101]

Exactly, spot on. They do this in every game. They fuck things up just to claim they've fixed it when they unfuck it. It is an utterly abusive strategy that everyone keeps falling for.

[@ProfVaharrak]

Nah in these case it's just milking every cow dry before selling the farm imo, not that what you mention doesnt happen but that's usually EA's jam more than anyone else's.

[@xanasago]

And in D4 all the people are going to say. At least it's not as bad as DI. Just that it's much worse than anything before DI.

[@Barnesofthenorth]

I mean I'd say they went to far with the rampant sexual harassment of their staff and bullying people who spoke out against the Chinese governments attack on the freedoms of people in Hon Kong, which we should remember they never actually made up for or even really apologised properly. As much as I think this is a really scummy thing to do, do you really think this is the low point for a company that supports sexual harassment and dictatorships? This is them on a good day.

[@CardboardArm]

Small correction: the lootbox laws in the Netherlands and Belgium are national laws, not EU laws. Or rather, their interpretation of existing gambling laws. Consumer assosiations in the EU have banded together to lobby for EU laws concerning lootboxes because not every country interprets gambling laws the same way.

[@saturn580]

The level of contempt Blizzard are showing for their own player base is absolutely staggering and should not be forgotten.

[@tomvu1470]

They made MILLIONS already on Diablo Immoral. You can hardly blame them when people are willing to empty their wallets for this polished turd.

[@saturn580]

@@tomvu1470 If adults were just buying crappy games, I’d say that’s their fault. But when publishers start incorporating addiction-inducing psychological techniques into their games to prey on children, that’s a whole new level of immorality.

[@tomvu1470]

@@saturn580 That’s a good point

[@deliriumsd142]

The reality is this game is designed more for Asia. Asian players are much more willing to pay to win because of the opportunity cost of time.

[@auquitaine9201]

People have been saying this since diablo 3 released already... and it's never going to change unfortunately because most gamers are either idiots or children, so unless a law against predatory monetization in games is put in place then Diablo Immoral is the new status quo.

[@aurora_borealis9]

The way you break down each mechanic and microtransaction is really impressive, you are great at explaining them as well. 👍👍

[@Woolie]

10 years of content for free? sounds like GOTY-contender to me!

[@Vesperitis]

there are not enough quotation marks in the universe to encompass the term """"""""""""""""""""free""""""""""""""""".

[@panthrax555]

Game of the Decade!

[@sebastiankalinski2718]

@@panthrax555 You mean game FOR the decade 😜 OR Good game well paid

[@rahn45]

Fo FEE!

[@adamofblastworks1517]

@@Vesperitis I think the point is that if you play it for free, it will take you ten years to complete it.

[@Xezr]

So while the company was dealing with the harrassment lawsuits, they were actively involved in designing a scheme to to leech money off their players. Despicable.

[@xtcarnagerocks8915]

Gotta pay all the lawyers somehow

[@Blisterdude123]

If by 'dealing with' you mean 'investigating themselves and finding themselves innocent because businesses are allowed to hold internal, and closed private investigations without disclosing any actual details', then yes, they were.

[@Xezr]

@@Blisterdude123 Yep, pretty much.

[@almostanonymous8768]

When Square Enix was about to deal with a lawsuit they instead decided to hire someone to beat up the employee so they stay "clean" on the outside. Who cares? Right, nobody.

[@boarfaceswinejaw4516]

good news though. some of the vaguely sexual voice lines from wc3 reforged were removed... this shows they care about women and gamers.

[@Unbenttomcat]

They have literally built in every single predatory tactic I've seen in any mobile game I've played and dropped due to their predatory tactics. Gatcha 10 pulls and their premium conversion prices. Battle passes with paid tiers. Login reward enhancements that are lost if you don't get on. "Free" claimable stuff in the premium shop to gateway you. Each of these mechanics have varying types of abuse. They have taken all of them to the most abusive and predatory level they can.

[@autobotstarscream765]

This is why nobody but Blizzard would let Azmodan design their games and people actually _want_ Microsoft to succeed in buying Activision.

[@Pop013]

Like putting more coins in slot for more active rows and better chance.. heh

[@alaeriia01]

​@@Pop013 Yeah, except slot machines are obviously gambling and you have to be 18 or older to play the one-armed bandit.

[@rawrn.]

Even hidden paywalls and another similar to battle pass menu like bruh

[@zealous404]

I've played asian gacha games and Korean MMOs for almost a decade and yet I'm baffled by DI's monetisation, I think this game might just take the cake for the most egregious model

[@Toma-621]

My defense mechanism against intrusive games such as this is being broke 💀

[@T1mo777]

this will not work once you get your first bank account/credit card...

[@Toma-621]

@@T1mo777 I mean my comment was a joke, I don't plan on playing games like this no matter how much money I have

[@Rituraj-cp8qn]

I laughed so hard my phone fell on my face

[@bingbong4186]

The other defense mechanism is being cheap

[@NerrawGnap]

@@bingbong4186 or (like me), not having a method of paying for anything digitally. I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve spent money to play a game (arcades excepted, for obvious reasons) with room to spare. And even then, I got a family member who *does* have a card to act as a kind of middleman. The good news(for me, at least), is that while there are an endless number of awful, over-monetized mobile games, there are a few out there that are above average with minimal, non-gamebreaking micro-transactions. The bad is, there are also some otherwise great games that had some completely unnecessary, fun-killing, paywall added, and those are becoming something of a pet peeve of mine. (P.S. Sorry, this ran a lot longer then I’d anticipated. If you’re still reading after slogging your way through my rambling and ranting, then thank you so much for taking the time to read this, and have a great rest of your day(or night)!)

[@atmosdwagon4656]

Video gaming as a hobby began life in arcades, where enjoyment was limited to how many quarters a person might have on their person at any given time. These games increasingly went from amusements to becoming soft gambling in themselves; being tailored to be increasingly unfair in order to extract as much money from the player as possible, to the point where most games were bluntly intended to be impossible to beat by the average member of the public. (Fun historical gaming fact: Back in the 1980s and early 90s, Konami game arcades in Japan were often owned by the Yakuza and were fought over like Pachinko parlors.) All of that changed when early PCs and specialized game consoles gave us a specialized means to allow independent replay-ability, which in turn radically altered and expanded what the medium was capable of. It has grown and reformed itself so many times to allow personal expression and commercial benefit that it's almost hard to see the underlying roots of it all now, especially if you weren't there. But today, after decades of progress moving away from what essentially began as a novelty amusement one-step removed from a claw machine (soft gambling), that we're not only regressing the better part of 40 years on the monetization schemes, but throwing standards to entirely new lows for gaming? Standards that even real world casinos haven't seen since Prohibition, I might add. What on Earth is wrong with us? How have we let things slide so badly so quickly? And what kind of brain-dead idiot thinks that things like Pay2Win is a good thing? Is anyone actually so naive as to think that the extra proceeds are going to fund better, more artistic games down the line? Why would a for-profit entity even bother with that when standards are so low that they can keep the bean counters and investors happy with significantly less effort? I doubt anyone is going to read this because "block of text", but seriously: If you're defending business practices like what Blizzard is shoving into their games now, you had better be selling out, because I weep for your brain and the future of gaming at large if you're doing this on principle.

[@tylisirn]

It happened because people were too stingy to pay for mobile games, so they had to turn to alternate ways to earn money. Then they discovered that those alternate ways actually are more profitable than just selling the game in the first place...

[@atmosdwagon4656]

@@tylisirn Oh please. The average mobile game is a dumbed down, chop-shop version of whatever you'd find on PC or console due to the hardware and control limitations of mobile platforms. Those "stingy" people were paying what those games were worth. What you call "alternative methods of profit" is just gambling, and gambling isn't even remotely new. Its risks, consequences and profit-efficacy are some of the most exhaustively studied and proven of any psychological or business phenomenon in the modern era. All the video gaming industry has done is find a legal loophole to avoid the strict regulation and high taxation that regular casinos are rightly subjected to. And the rest of us are too gutless or stupid to do anything about it beyond what we see here: Exposing and damning it.

[@tylisirn]

@@atmosdwagon4656 Just because the games are simpler doesn't mean they aren't worth any money at all. That is exactly the attitude that lead to us getting microtransactions and lootboxes because no other monetization model is possible because people won't pay up front, everything has to be free. Once there is critical mass of games that are free to play (with microtransactions), all games have to be, because pay-up-front games can't compete with "free". And that genie can't be put back into the bottle, especially once it was demonstrated that F2P with microtransactions and lootboxes are more profitable than single pay model. As much as you look down on mobile games, the market is monetarily bigger than all other segments put together. So clearly, those games do have value to people. A lot of value.

[@theonewithin609]

China.

[@razorbackroar]

I read it & I loved bro bro. Nice story.

[@FratinandMadrik]

After playing it, the game feels like it's built around greed. There's a decent game here, not perfect, but REALLY good for a mobile game (it is a bit rough around the edges when played on PC, but still very acceptable), but the egregious way they've handled monetization in this game is inexcusable. It truly feels like the game was built as an excuse to charge money. I wanted to game to be good, and the monetization to be their way of saying "We're giving you this game for free, we need to make money off of this too, so here are some options", which is usually in the form of cosmetics or small time savers. To me, it feels like it's the opposite. "We're asking you to pay this amount of money, so we've also made a game so you feel like there's a reason to pay us"

[@alpha1beta1gamma]

Are you cooked… it’s a terrible mobile game.

[@PuellaMagiHomuraAkemi]

Man I really wish people would just keep playing the good games like PoE or Grim Dawn and simply IGNORE THE BAD, why giving trash so much attention?!

[@HopesBoomerang]

@@alpha1beta1gamma Uh, are *you* cooked? You call this bad while shit like candy crush is out here?

[@darianstarfrog]

​@@PuellaMagiHomuraAkemi these are good mobile games!?

[@Carnyzzle]

@@HopesBoomerang At least candy crush doesn't rely on you spending as much money as possible LOL

[@Gaousensei]

Reminder the mandatory "individual rates" came from the Monkeygate scandal in Granblue where Andira was on the New Years banner, but her rates were extremely low compared to other SSR pickups for said banner. The aftermatch of that event not only introduced mandatory individual rates, but also introduced a pity system called Cerulean Sparks and Moons that helped players build up crystals to spark with for a character they want with only two summons being unsparkable. Pity systems ever since were a staple in a good amount of gacha games, however those without pity systems tend to be more money grubby.

[@ViperliciousOG]

Looking at you, Dislyte. After *900 summons* (1 or 10 at a time) you'll finally have a chance above one whole percent to get the feature you crave. Yes 900. No, there are very few tiers in between depending on the banner. The pity system was exorbitant when I uninstalled. Good riddance.

[@hehz7829]

Diablo 3 was my first ever computer game, my grandma introduced me to it (and power leveled me every single season). Sucks that blizzard is doing stuff like this with their monitization.

[@qbxricky5315]

I know this is old but you have a really cool grandma

[@joshleenall]

@@qbxricky5315 No kidding. I didn't know one of my grandmothers and the other was truly hate incarnate. The idea of a grandmother power leveling me in d3 gives me all kinds of strange feelings.

[@ericbaker8781]

Cool grandma, mine used to keep me shackled to a radiator in the basement. I didn’t even see sunshine until I was 17 and had killed her with a lead pipe lol.

[@LuizAlexPhoenix]

​@@ericbaker8781 Oh, mine drank rat poison, stabbed herself 17 times in the back and then wrote a suicide note. 😉

[@Gary_a_normal_human_being]

@@ericbaker8781alright

[@MisogynyMan]

Gotta give it to Blizz, they put more thought into micro transactions then most companies put thought into the game. I'm sure they are going to make fortunes on this. Terrible.

[@deadlyrobot5179]

Normies, normies gonna make them a fortune.

[@rahn45]

This is ironically and unironically the best gaming system Blizzard has developed.

[@johncarver357]

@@deadlyrobot5179 more like China and most of the SEA region. they dont even know why P2W is terrible because almost everyone is in the P2W market

[@knightdtd]

@@deadlyrobot5179 And then they will use that revenue number to prove that it's a good game and the haters are all wrong. Useful idiots...

[@Assassin5671000]

Well the problem is that is normalized et least in the mobile gaming industry to spend cash on it .I don't know how or why people look at a mobile game on a tiny screen ,with underwhelming game mechanics or visuals compared to a console or pc and justify even spending 5 bucks. I get it's way more accessible hence you can get a phone for cheap that can run a lot of these games ,but come on how on earth are these people justifying these purchases are there really people out there spending hours playing on a phone. Mostly I think it does come from casuals but more from the younger generations of gamers witch in my opinion just don't know better and get used to it quickly

[@Randymountaine]

This game is a masterpiece, The entire theme of Diablo is Hellish, suffering, misery and hopeless loss. Blizzard have delivered exactly that. Just not how we expected.

[@Cujo5]

Indeed. They've taken the evil out of Diablo and put it in the monetisation system.

[@GerryReid]

Very good so sad so true, and also sad

[@DaijDjan]

This take made me laugh - well done!^^

[@sanfransiscon]

"No weapon can overcome the weakness of an undisciplined mind."

[@Nightman9001]

Lmao great comment. I didn't see the punch line coming.

[@jankiwlenko3315]

Actually, if you miss a day, you do lose these rewards for good. Because when you buy another 30 days, you get these 2 crests on first day, but lose that at the end. You don't get back what you lost, you lost it and are manipulated to buy an offset 30 login rewards again without actually getting any extra value or anything back on the second purchase that you didn't get on first one.

[@ArchieBlacke]

So it's like kicking the can down the road? The only recourse being to keep subbing forever or lose what you paid for?

[@jankiwlenko3315]

@@ArchieBlacke no. What i said was if you lost it you in practice lost it permanently. If you buy new one you get another 30 days, just offset by your day count, so you get the final reward earlier, but the one for previous 30 days you will NEVER get.

[@krankarvolund7771]

Yeah, buying something and losing it because you didn't log once in the month should be illegal..... Honestly, for me, that's a scam, and it should be even more punished than the gamnling system that is bad and addictive, but still not a scam ^^'

[@raphk9599]

Alot of that sounds like gibberish

[@kirevkizrepnav572]

​@@raphk9599 Basically: cuz you pay for 30 days of login bonus, if you miss one of them you're fked. You can fix it by getting another 30 days, but then one of the new ones will be used for the old reward track and you will still miss one, effectively meaning that once you missed one you permanently lose out (untill you miss 30 and reset it completely ig)

[@misc.halcyon]

This started autoplaying while I’m at work and the whole “no one wants you to stop having fun, they want the companies to be held accountable for garbage” thing feels so very relevant with the Pokemon violet/scarlet debacle.

[@benjaminasmus3980]

At least pokemon isn't trying to drain us of all of our money with pay to win microtransactions, just making lots of games! But as a pokemon fan who was one of the few people excited to play violet. The quality of the game was dissapointing and one of the reasons I have a hard time picking it up after beating it. So much minimal effort was being put on all fronts it really discouraged any hope I had for the game.

[@_piranha]

Pokemon is not even remotely comparable to this shit lol. They're not trying to siphon money out of you or manipulate you, no one spent 100k+ dollars to get a shiny miraidon and did not get it. On the other side, no one sent death threats to people who didn't see a problem with this game ! Can't say the same for pokemon fans !

[@jonahabenhaim1223]

Pokémon has the problem nowadays of getting away with games that don’t feel finished but are still mechanically stable to sell a huge amount of copies

[@nendorocchi]

Your magnum opus hands down. The ending just blew my mind. Such a well structured video! It shows how intelligent you put everything together. Great!

[@Kevin00405]

I can't even express how thankful I am for my country banning that sh*t. It's disgusting. Thanks for delving in and pointing it out to us!

[@fosphor8920]

wish my country would do the same.. But they are like "naaah, it'll be fine"

[@klobuerste6936]

Actually, to be precise, neither Belgium nor Netherlands banned the game, its jsut that it would be to much trouble to release it, since these countries (luckily) have stricter regulations in terms of gambling/lootboxes.

[@Kevin00405]

@@klobuerste6936 I'm not saying they banned the game (and I am sure the game itself is fine), I am indeed talking about their loot system that's banned and for that I am extremely thankful. I loathe the deplorable way in which they steer you towards a gambling addiction. Especially in multiplayer games, where others may flaunt their exclusive content, taking into consideration that minors also play those games. I'm sorry, but it's simply disgusting.

[@antonioballve9779]

The level of complexity built into this kind monetization is quite honestly bizarre. If they spent all that creative energy into making a better game it could have been a masterpiece lol.

[@utodbz]

Those are ancient tricks used by mobile games for a long time, they are not spending that much energy..

[@kirayoshikage4057]

One time masterpieces don't make money. See: Team Fortress 2

[@DWith13Es]

@@kirayoshikage4057 TF2 is one of Valve's most lucrative ventures? Even discarding pre-free to play they get paid via the mann co store, they take a cut off community market board sales. That market board money is also put into the steam wallet, and Valve takes a cut from money spent on the steam platform.

[@trompell0]

@@kirayoshikage4057 yeah they do just not as much outright money. Making good products increases good will and loyalty. This sort of shameless cash grab doesn't foster that. I believe making things that aren't greedy evil shit is better than a bigger immediate payout. Elden ring alone shits on your tf2 point just by itself. Red dead redemption two also. And many more. Also TF2 blows lol

[@kushking949]

I love this game and spend nothing... The problem is A LOT of people like you was raised thinking you get everything you want in life for free bc mommy and daddy gave you what you wanted. The game is just fine with out paying. Oh I forgot self entitled people can't play a game where any one is better then them. Just grow up people and either enjoy the game or play something else and stop complaining like a little girl.

[@ASGARD147]

8:09 goddam Man, that's a way to sum up 25 years of a franchise, freakin' accurate too! Also I'm a big Diablo fan, and enjoyed immortal quite a bit, but gotta agree with most of what you said, specially when there are people out there with legitimate mental health issues and gambling addiction. Great video.

[@benjoe1993]

I was in the "just close your eyes and your wallet and play the game" group before watching this video. Thanks for this video. I didn't look into it because I didn't really care about it before but now it's very clear what this game was made for. This was not made for the fans but for the shareholders.

[@dee5559]

My stomach is hurting with disgust. Thank you Josh for managing to keep these information-packed 45 minutes this understandable, so the community can share and see always more of all the insidious things they're trying to hide

[@dakotashroom5401]

Oh, good. I thought I was the only one until I saw your comment.

[@adriandickson2673]

oooh insidious

[@PrettyGuardian]

I was shooketh by the end of the video. The reason the game took an extra 4 years in development is because that's how long it takes to develop this many layers of egregious monetization.

[@WickedMuis]

We may have lost TB 4 years ago, but at least we still have people like Josh making these thorough (review) videos.

[@gorvarhadgarson5227]

He warned us this could happen. Bless him.

[@navins11]

I'm sad that it took me longer than 5 seconds to understand what TB means. RIP

[@CapOfXav]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees abit of the cynical Biscuit in Josh aswell

[@hotsauceterry8759]

Never forget, can't believe it's already been four years. R.I..P.

[@greenarcangel]

he would be proud of Josh and all the others that are giving them hell.

[@cmdrwraithe1857]

I've outright boycotted any products with Blizzard attached to them. I'm glad that I did. This is absolutely sickening, Josh. Thank you for making this vid.

[@Malacite]

And here I thought Ubisoft was bad... This is like the culmination of everything Jim Sterling has been screaming about for years. It goes to show just how broken the industry - and the (lack of) laws surrounding it truly are.

[@UtubeH8tr]

Sucks he lost his mind bro.

[@magneric]

The industry can be fixed if people lose the blind consumerist mindset. There are way too many people that are OK with half assed AAA games at full price or gacha crap because it looks pretty.

[@Malacite]

@@magneric Boycotting won't do shit, it's going to take people demanding action from politicians

[@glockmat]

And would be exponencially worse if there were laws involved in it, since consumers dont buy laws, companies do, so a law to regulate gaming would just be bought by the very companies they are supposed to regulate, and what we consider absurd, would be mandated by law

[@magneric]

@@Malacite When politicians get into issues they like to make it worse and in favor of whoever gives them more money. You are aware of this thing called lobbying right? The government is pay to play and these companies are using the money from idiots that buy into their shitty product. Simple solution - stop buying their shit.

[@vgaglory4555]

As a gamer since the 80's it is so utterly depressing to see the direction gaming is evolving. I am actually speechless. What we are witnessing here is the death of gaming as we used to know it. Blizzard should be utterly utterly ashamed of themselves. They helped to develop the PC as a gaming platform, now they killed it.

[@AnyDiscount]

As a 80s kid myself that started gaming on a Spectrum I entirely agree with you. I remember fantasising about what gaming in the future was going to look like and it certainly wasn't this transaction laden mess (it's not even micro at this stage) , and yes I know not all games have gone this way, but it's definitely creeping in that direction. For such a long running franchise like this to go so deep into it my teenage self would be most upset.

[@QueenNaya]

Gaming as we know it died a while ago. CS:GO Skins - Battle Passes - Premium Content.

[@asmahasmalaria8596]

There are good examples, especially in the indie market. Just don't buy any games from major companies anymore, Activision, EA, Ubisoft, and so on. You're not missing out on much these days anyways.

[@heinzerhardt7047]

There are still a ton of great indie games out there with different payment models. Actually probably more than ever. Just that there are also these predatory games. The choice is ours.

[@XAn0nymousX0]

@@namelessliberty9869 The problem is finding them though. You go onto steam and you have to sift through thousands of games to find a diamond in the rough. So while I do believe indie devs will bring a renaissance to gaming, at the moment they're few and far between and extremely difficult to find.

[@ycl260779]

I wasn't surprised that there were predatory mechanics in diablo immortal. I was surprised at how GOOD they were at making those predatory mechanics. It makes every other mobile game's cash shop mechanics look cute in comparison.

[@MBSteinNL]

That’s why they probably cooperated with NetEase on it - one of the biggest gacha-game producers from China

[@M.L.official]

Watch that video from a finnish dude (Torulf Jennstrom or something) who talks about creating games by exploiting the human psyche and having no shame in doing that because, money!

[@skycaptain95]

Blizzard has turned their mastery of fun playing experiences to evil.

[@adamgr6988]

@@M.L.official I think you're talking about the one called "turning players into payers". The thing that I found disgusting about his talk wasn't all the psychological tricks or proud greediness, it was the way he used all these dehumanizing terms and language to describe what are essentially his customers. Something I didn't really think about during the video, but was floored by realizing afterward - the talk is supposed to be from a game designer helping you maximize the success of your mobile game, but virtually none of the talk was about creating an actually good or compelling game that people would want to support because it was fulfilling. It's all well studied psychological traps and different barrages of psychological warfare to deploy and break the will of anyone foolish enough to click "download" expecting anything other than an elaborate hustle masquerading as a video game. Sadly good game design chops *are* an important thing to have, but only so you can dial in the exact amount of reward and fulfillment to leave the player frustrated and anxious for fighting the trap of becoming a payer

[@M.L.official]

@@adamgr6988 I really hate that psychology exists. For me, some things are best left untouched or unexplored by people. Yea there are benefits to knowing how a human acts and what the triggers are for certain behavioural patterns but almost all benefits are purely for malevolent purposes or exploitative purposes. It isn't just for video games but literally anything. You're right about the consumers bit, these people virtually think of us as bills and coins. I fell into the mobile games trap once and never again in my life. Spent a couple grand, learned my lesson and staying well away from them. Hoping others in the same position do the same

[@hobbitonthestorm1519]

I rewatch this sometimes. It’s like a classic horror movie

[@_Just_John]

Seeing game industry evolving in this way makes me appreciate the products of companies with integrity even more.

[@Capnsensible80]

It's so sad to me. I started playing Diablo in the 90s as a teenager and LOVED Blizzard. Every new game from D2 to WC3 was incredible. They used to be great because they made games THEY wanted to play. Seeing them devolve into a company that only focuses on sexual assault of its employees and milking their players for every last cent in games of mediocre quality and all the OG devs gone leaving only those who don't even play their own games has really disappointed me.

[@emulation2369]

It's not evolution, more like devolution to me...

[@elfpi55-bigB0O85]

who? where? everything sucks now

[@ironchariotrider7474]

The problem is that those companies won't stay that way. Eventually they all turn into a money making focus group.

[@Hares_Pit]

Shout-out to FromSoft

[@AnimeFan-dl4qd]

I still think-the moment when the gamer asked "Is this a late abril fools joke"-is gamer history-what a legend

[@Anonymouthful]

Check up on the guy, aparently he finds Diablo Immortal to his liking.

[@slevinchannel7589]

@@Anonymouthful 2:20: This Speech of Josh here reminds me so hard of what 'Some More News' and 'Second THought' say bout Worker-Righs and how were totally not powerless. Must-Watch for the average people, if i may say so.

[@SuperQuines]

Last year I graduated law school with dissertation about loot boxes. Therein, among others, I tried to find a good legal definition of loot boxes, and I even considered whether monsters in games like diablo or poe are loot boxes given that they can drop random items of different value. Blizzard has made it a reality and took it to the next level just a year later.

[@agnidas5816]

And you got paid zero for it. That'll teach you to write something meaningful in your dissertation. You're supposed to hide the real good ideas you come up with in college till you're part of a big firm and even then ... wait some years.

[@vembdev]

Monsters in diablo or PoE don't ask you 10$ to drop the loot. Of course loot boxes are same as monster loot. Thats why they are called loot boxes. They drop loot. Chests are literally loot boxes too. Whoah, pass that shit bro :D. Difference between lootbox and chest? One costs real money and you're paying for a feature that has been free in games for 30 years.

[@SuperQuines]

@@vembdev Exactly. Just to make it clear, I never said that there's anything wrong with random reward mechanisms like random loot after slaying mobs in games. It's just necessary to note that if you look for what a loot box is, it is precisely that (random reward mechanism, which, as you said, is something that was in games for decades). It is just stripped of gameplay and locked behind a pay wall. Here blizzard tried to mask releasing loot box based game by keeping the gameplay part in. But that's just one big loot box. Awful...

[@housemana]

the last thing humanity needs is more lawyers. for every one good lawyer, there's ten that graduate that will sell their souls for gold. even with best intentions, you really are just going to be fodder for the machine. don't expect to change the world with your profession. you're just going to be used as a stepping stone unless you also decide to put your soul up for sale.

[@morgle3811]

@@housemana wow so deep

[@augustopdrocha]

The biggest tragedy is that there'll probably never going to be this fun, fairly priced game available for us. The predatory monetisation destroyed any possibility of this game, perhaps this series, to ever be as good as it's supposed to.

[@HiGlowie]

Doubt we’ll even get another good Diablo game.

[@martinszymanski2607]

not really a tragedy anymore imo, indie games have gotten to the point at which they're competing and outpacing AAA releases regularly. if path of exile doesn't suit your fancy i'm sure there's a game which recaptures the same charm diablo 2 had for a modern audience, you just gotta find it.

[@DOGEELLL]

​@@martinszymanski2607yes there is As much i hate to say it indie took over there is barely anything good about AAA i wish it could go back to the prime glory days

[@lettuceman306]

Honestly, I feel like trusting any list a company makes about the standards it holds itself to is a fool's errand. They ARE going to ignore it, and whenever they're called out, they'll weasel their way around it. Don't be mistaken; money is ALWAYS the primary motivator.

[@EzraBradford]

At least in the United States, a publicly traded corporation is legally _required_ to put money first, and can be sued (by its shareholders) for prioritizing anything else higher. Any ethics statement you can believe at all would have to include how having these ethics doesn't conflict with maximizing shareholder returns.

[@ThEjOkErIsWiLd00]

Sure. money is always the primary motivator, but it shouldn't be the ONLY motivator. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you don't care about me and my consumer rights and only care about what's in my wallet/bank acct, then I don't care about your games.

[@lettuceman306]

@@ThEjOkErIsWiLd00 Oh, it definitely SHOULDN'T be the only motivator. The issue is that, well, for most game companies... it is. And that needs to change.

[@ClamMan1989]

It's fake corporate nonsense written by people with a fake job

[@Freakymonify]

Four years ago we lost Totalbiscuit. We never lost his spirit though, because now here stands his successor. As articulate and unyielding as the legend himself, every bit as fit to keep fighting the good fight. I've said it before in a previous comment, but it's worth saying again; John would be proud.

[@Eamil]

There are people that have hailed "watchdog youtubers" like SidAlpha as successors to TB and while I understood it, I never felt that way myself because that wasn't all TB did. His primary thing was still first impressions videos and other projects that provided positivity and variety to his content. He never had to go looking for something minor to complain about during a slow news week, because that wasn't the main purpose of his content. I think in that sense, Josh really is a true successor. "Bad news" isn't his whole thing. His Worst MMO Ever videos, even about bad games, are entertaining and balanced rather than relentlessly negative, and his Josh Strife Plays channel really shows the love he has for games in general.

[@Ryanoceros06]

That's a hell of a compliment! Fuck, I miss TB.

[@M.L.official]

Don't think anyone can succeed TB. Josh is good tho

[@Elenrai]

@@Eamil John did not have to go look for those things to "nitpick" about, the man is practically single-handedly responsible for FOV sliders being the norm again, all thanks to a twat of a PR staffer that tried to lie in public... With that said, John did not care for slow weeks, the mad fuck would happily do nothing for an entire week but a single "WTF IS; this shitty tower defense game for 2011s baby gamers first TD fad" One thing is for sure; John only had slow weeks when they were self inflicted.

[@mathiasknsgaardkristensen3396]

I was just about to come here to write this. This video is remarkably TB-esque in format and messaging. Good job Mr. Hayes, for making this kind of content. Fantastic video.

[@tts1981]

When a company creates a team of psychologists for income purposes, run, run the fuck away from them.

[@aquilliusranger2137]

Remember when L4D2 teams have psychologists to make gamers more addicted to their game? Good times… *good fucking times* …

[@tinglesrosyrupeeland]

Very well made video, thanks for the upload! Especially liked the inclusion of the code of conduct at the end

[@crunchyfrog555]

I've got to say that as a sad old git in his fifties, who has tons of games from the dawn of gaming (and never selles them) I truly appreciate Josh doing what he does. We NEED more rational, fair and lucid commenters out there to be spokesmen for us, because this behaviour is BEYOND acceptable. Basically, we NEED to be better and people like Josh show us the way.

[@Squintis]

Don’t stop gaming man. There’s still some good ones out there.

[@Rockstroem]

It's nice to have people carrying the torch that was dimmed after TotalBiscuit passed too soon.

[@thecoloradokid5418]

@@Rockstroem I really do miss him, always the good ones that are taken too soon

[@geekmastermind]

Also a middle-aged grump here, and I agree.

[@snickle1980]

@@geekmastermind 😁I'm also one of the olds. Boomers assemble. Anyway, AAA will redeem itself in some distant year, but it wont be this one! For now, the indie scene is still where it's at for creativity and innovation in gaming. Games that birth new genres. Good times.

[@WizbizMcBrix]

I got hit with nostalgia while listening to you talk about this game. It reminded me, at some points, of watching TotalBiscuit. Excellent video.

[@mainstreetsaint36]

RIP John Peter Bain, you were one of the real ones. :(

[@ChiaroscuroxX]

High praise

[@aaronmichelson5510]

RIP for sure he was a legend

[@havefuntazarasu5367]

DIABLO IMMORAL: WHERE THE MORE IMMORAL THE BETTER YOU ARE AT THE GAME EXAMPLE INCLUDING FRENCH KISS YOUR SISTER FCK YOUR HORSE IMPREGANTE YOUR MOM EAT YOUR NEIGHBORS SHT ON THE BED

[@Siriathion]

TB is rolling in his grave watching whats going on with Diablo. He was a huge Blizzard fan.

[@EnochtWong]

Wow, just wow. Perfectly explained and backed with facts only. Not only that, but you managed to distill the information in such a way that a casual gamer like myself can understand. Thank you for your advocacy and for taking the time to put this together. It is no small feat and I hope others on here watching appreciate it as much as I do. Cheers!

[@bookfish]

The problem with people sayin that "I don't support the cash shop, because I'm not buying anything from it" but keep playing the game, is that they are actually supporting this shitty monetization. You playing the game gives the spenders the reason to spend in the game. Playing pvp? Now there's someone to defeat (now spenders can buy power from the cash shop). Just generally chilling in the game? Now there's someone to impress, with the shiny cash shop armors. It doesn't matter that you don't care about how other's look, the important is that the spender can show off their expensive cosmetic armor, whether you care about it or not. If you really don't want to support games like this, then just don't play it.

[@ThatOneCloudGuy]

The thought of finishing an Extreme or Savage fight in FF14 and then having the drops/mounts be locked behind a paywall actually put me in a coma.

[@BruteSix]

pay boosters to get a current BiS gear without any effort 😂

[@TheRetifox]

Fourntetly the best mounts in game are indeed mog station only. Look forward for it

[@RomeDrori]

@@TheRetifox, as long as ff14 doesn't start putting the crazy hard to get mounts in the mog station, I have a feeling that the best mount in the game wont be mog station lol, though I cant say I disagree with you, as a subscription-based game I think ff14 has taken its cash shop too far, i already pay you monthly

[@haven6410]

Wow, that's rough. Hope you wake up soon.

[@SharkBelk]

What an incredible review and deep dive into this game. First time viewer of the channel and I'm floored with how excellently put together this video is. Took me a moment whilst watching to realise this wasn't a total biscuit video, will definitely be watching more.

[@S4ltyTar0]

What? Total Biscuit has been dead for 4 years, how could he be doing a Diablo Immortal video?

[@taronzgaming7739]

@@S4ltyTar0 If there ever was a thing that would make TB roll out of his grave to bitch and complain again (rightfully so, I miss his rants :( ), this would likely be it.

[@skorne7682]

There's a few good youtubers out there continuing the good fight TB began. It's so sad TB is no longer with us but at least we still have people like Josh.

[@SharkBelk]

@@S4ltyTar0 the point im making by that statement is that the quality production and depth of this video is so high it rivals that of what TB would put out and from watching this as a first time viewer of this creator it very much felt like I was watching a video made by said creator who is sadly no longer with us. Don't worry I'm very much aware of his passing and was very gutted after the fact also :(

[@planescaped]

@@SharkBelk Everyone who isn't a daft airhead knew what you meant. >__>

[@sarinat3101]

I remember how decadent I felt back in the day when I bought my very first in-game item ever: Trang Oul's scales, the last piece I needed for my full Trang's set in D2. I was almost embarrassed to admit it to my friends. Oh how far we have come :/

[@Heckinwhatonearth]

I've spent 100s if not 1000s on free korean mmos on the 2000s. The shame isn't wearing off either!

[@KenshinHimura10]

I think what frustrates me about these extreme cases of monestisation is us players are both the cause and also the only cure for this problem. Luckily for me I'm only susceptible to cosmetic shops, not pay to win shops. The true endgame of any MMO or online game.

[@hossep2695]

I just want to say that I absolutely love the patron names bit. It gives me a chuckle every time I see the tiny font, and I can't wait until it just becomes a series of lines

[@Deadsnake989]

I was mildly annoyed the first couple times I saw a video and it was too small for me to read. But eventually I started finding it hilarious, and still do think it's hilarious every time it gets smaller.

[@grizzb1966]

My heart breaks a little every time Josh talks about a new payment model as the video goes along. I feel sorry for any Diablo fans for the disrespect Activision Blizzard has given to this beloved franchise.

[@zephyr8072]

I mean at least their disrespect for Diablo is borne out of rampant, naked greed unlike their disrespect for Warcraft which comes from arrogance, stupidity and incompetence. The former, while evil, is at least understandable.

[@Tsukigato]

@@zephyr8072 And yet I'd much rather take someone being arrogant, stupid, and incompetent to ruin a game than outright, uncontrolled greed, understandable or not.

[@DrShoe]

Idk why people complain about microtransactions. Just dont buy them and play the game

[@zephyr8072]

@@DrShoe Why would I play a game that's specifically designed to give me a bad experience unless I'm constantly feeding it money?

[@swegby9383]

@@DrShoe Did you watch the video?

[@personman5156]

You know, when Blizzard announced a mobile Diablo, the groan was heard round the world. One man even asked if they were joking, and Blizzard acted like WE were the crazy ones. But you know, I wager we all felt that way because we knew, some way or another we KNEW, it was just going to be a free game built entirely from the ground up with predatory microtransactions built in to the fundamental gameplay. This was par for the course, its exactly what we expected and Blizzard still had the audacity to pretend we were weird for not wanting diablo on mobile devices.

[@peaceandloveusa6656]

Yeah, the "You don't have phones?" line really said it all. They did not make Diablo: Immortal with the community in mind. They made it with their own self-interest in mind.

[@Mant111]

@@peaceandloveusa6656 Let's face it: you just don't remake a beloved version of a game franchise for phone for no other reason than exploitation. That's why everyone groaned.

[@gl4re]

@@Mant111 This put the nail in the coffin for me for Blizzard game, play all their games ever since diablo 2. I always hope they make a turn around, even worst company like EA can do it surely Blizzard surely can do it better. We all can wish but Blizzard is dead and time to move on. I still put hope when they release RMAH but this is just a whole different level, not even a chinese waifu gacha game is this predatory. It is even more mindboggling that many people deny that and defend this game so much.

[@jackcoleman1784]

Saying he asked if they were joking is the smaller part of the story. What he asked was "is this an out of season April Fool's joke.". He asked that for a reason. Blizzard once claimed they were developing a mobile Diablo game AS an April Fool's Joke. It was supposed to be so far fetched an idea that only a FOOL would believe it. THAT'S what he was referencing when he asked them "is this an out of season April Fool's joke.". That's how hard they went from knowing their fanbase to bring greedy. An April Fool's joke became a reality.

[@g3nj1]

@@peaceandloveusa6656 they saw candy crush make more money than them by taking advantage of addiction and said, "hold my beer."

[@ShroudedWolf51]

"Just turn your brain off and enjoy!" It's already really difficult to resist the predatory systems with my brain fully engaged to resisting spending money. If I turn my brain off, that'll only lead to me giving this company of abusers, harassers, and sexual assaulters ridiculous amounts of money. When the whole Blitzchung thing happend, after the spineless response from Brack at BlizzCon, I deleted my BattleNET account. Having gambling addiction problems, I "lost" quite a lot of money. But the more has come out about Activision-Blizzard-King since, that was the best decision I've ever made.

[@Frosth15]

Best game ever made with the best game system of all time. Truly a masterpiece, Diabillion/10 even brought to you by the Legendary Wyattblo Chengmortal "Don't you have credit cards?" Recommended for everyone. My favorite part of the game is where they all say "It's Diablin time" then swipe that credit card for a Diabillin experience. My heart is full and my soul renewed

[@sionbarzad5371]

Diabillion/10 killed me hahaha

[@Dubauabud]

Unfathomably based DiabilionBro!

[@JedeOff]

Lmao what is this

[@fatcat22able]

Truly one of the game systems of all time

[@starsiegeRoks]

Ah yes, the confirmation bias guy, miss the part where Josh says that it's a great game without all the money mechanics?

[@spnked9516]

What's more shocking than Immortal's monetization methods is the speed at which the industry and market as a whole have degraded to the point which allows it to exist in the first place. Some of you might be old enough to remember Bethesda's attempt at horse armour DLC back in 2006. Bethesda rightfully earned a ton of ridicule and condemnation for this stunt, but less than a decade later cosmetic monetization - along with day one DLC and other piece-meal practices - were commonplace in both the AAA and AA markets. A couple years from that and games-as-service is the standard practice.

[@nulian]

Dunne this game is like all mobile games for last 5 a 10 years

[@MasterofFates]

American Capitalism infecting Entertainment will kill games for everyone. Capitalism is anti fun by design. Games are built to make a singular person rich now adays

[@athingwhichexists]

Someone said it well, "gamers got the market they deserve" the reason why this stuff is being done is because people pay for it and allow it to happen. I know I personally refuse to pay for day 1 DLC or in game monetization unless the game itself is free and the monetization is cosmetic in which case I pay somewhere from 20 - 120 depending on my enjoyment, but most people don't limit themselves like that and happily shell out hundreds of dollars on digital shit. If people didn't buy this stuff then it won't work and companies won't do it. Luckily there are plenty of other game devs that don't do this predatory shit, but it is annoying that you can't enjoy the highest end graphics without having to go through these money stealing mechanics

[@patrickmchugh4616]

It has been a rapid deterioration from the mere suggestion of cosmetics (the horse armor you mentioned) to the full-scale monetization models present in modern mobile games. Rapid, yes, but unsurprising. The industry of video games has wholly outgrown its modest beginnings, an almost quaint and naïve era in which games were developed as fully-formed experiences that, at their best, embodied the mechanical complexity of the medium (Starcraft, Quake) or the unique aspect of storytelling/player experience (Half-Life, Fallout 2). Of course, this ethos of game development still exists (see Elden Ring of this year as a shining example), but in a system where capital is king, and game creation requires huge investments and the good graces of the shareholder, I fear this spirit of game development will soon be as distant a memory as the first equine platemail that became a kind of standard-bearer for the entire dismal trend.

[@agentep9979]

​@@nulian What is so surprising about this is how such a big and beloved company could do this, Blizzard is not like EA, they had an actual good reputation, but it seems that the last few years Blizzard has abandoned its stellar reputation for quick money, it just shows how insane MTX systems are starting to creep into its biggest and best AAA companies

[@Zedd550]

As a software developer, i'm a bit suspicious of the "left over files" claim regarding the face tracking software. Especially in a big dev shop like Blizzard, you don't just "forget" files like that. There are normally multiple checks where "left over files" would get noticed and weeded out.

[@trompell0]

I'm not a developer in any way but I have the same suspicion. Sketchy.

[@SpudOfDoom]

Thankfully my phone has a pop-up front camera, so it is 100% super obvious if the camera is on or not. I haven't seen any sign that it activates in this game so far, and it hasn't requested permission to either.

[@kuronaialtani]

At this point, I wouldn’t put it past them to forget something like that Since they’ve clearly thrown so much else out the window for decency

[@pcs322]

eh, on a poorly managed project with tight deadlines (both pretty likely here) I see that stuff all the time (at a faang company). once half a feature gets merged to your main branch, then the feature gets scrapped, everyone forgets about it when they're pulled to 8 other features. all it takes is a PM to tell the dev team "tech debt isn't a priority". edit: that said, that facial recognition feature sounds made up. who decided that was worth implementing? it basically sounds like a front for gathering information. I guess having a really useless facial recognition feature draws more attention to it than a few dlls. malicious all around.

[@skycaptain95]

@@SpudOfDoom what the heck is a pop-up phone camera? What model is this?

[@DetectiveMekova]

Virgin Diablo Immortals Whale: Microtransactions, predatory lootboxes and okay gameplay Chad Josh Strife Hayes's Patron: Somehow cheaper, Consistently good content, Enjoyable community, get noticed in credits of video

[@dratharous5107]

Keep up the good work Josh! Commenting for the algorithm! The more people that see this will hopefully help lead us to fixing these greedy practices eventually!

[@daltonmiller7335]

Becoming the first person on earth to actually figure out how to alchemize lead into gold sounds easier than learning the currency system in this game.

[@DeathBlocks]

That is well said. And I hate it so much. Don't get me wrong I don't dislike complexity and depth in games, I prefer that. But there is a limit that feels like it is crossed to purposely confuse players. And not only talking about the orbs and platinum that need to be purchased, just everything. There is a point where it is just silly. If you really feel like you need tons of materials and each activity needing it's own then have the person who you go to for the activity be the one that converts something into X material. And it doesn't fit the game, this isn't Elder Scrolls with a complex alchemy system requiring tens of ingredients, it is Diablo that is kind of brainless. I felt like I didn't even know what I needed a lot of the time, in part because I didn't enjoy the game that much but it also contributed to lack of fun because it is a pain to plan your next goal when you need to remember like 20 materials.

[@Demogarose]

What kills me is that everyone seems to have just... forgotten... that Blizz has been awful for quite some time. The laundry list of controversies and bad actions that they have never apologized or made reparations for.

[@Spartan0430]

at some point they're going to burn enough good will with their hardcore fanbase that they'll actually start to hurt but blizzard successfully became a cultural phenomenon and people allowed themselves to become too financially and emotionally invested into blizzard to not realize their relationship has turned abusive. i've lost friends for simply being critical of blizzard, that's how delusional and fanatical these types of people are.

[@ingamingpc1634]

@@Spartan0430 They became addicted to the very thing they loved and they destroyed themselves over it it's a sad reality

[@Thanatos2k]

Hearthstone is abysmally monetized and has only gotten worse over the years. No one has said anything. Why??

[@ortah2616]

@@Thanatos2k cause people don't care about Hearthstone anymore

[@EskChan19]

Yeah, Diablo 3 had the real money autcion house and intentionally manipulated drop rates to drop items your class can't use to force you to use it, Overwatch single-handedly normalized lootboxes for years after, Hearthstone is a mess of monetization. But it's Blizzard, everyone's darling, so it's ok as long as the "good guys" do it.