After visiting this carpentry school in Switzerland we have a lot of catch

Nick tours a Swiss carpentry school with @greensidedesignbuild3469 and they find out the US has a lot of catching up to do from an education standpoint.
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[@alexanderjamieson7971]

I am starting to understand why Europeans make fun of U.S. construction.

[@trentthompson2928]

Did you see the dimensions of the lumber?

[@jeffreybrannen9465]

Misread that as “constitution”. Rereading made much more sense

[@T4b10]

@@trentthompson2928 hi, what do you mean with that comment? Is it good or bad?

[@trentthompson2928]

@@T4b10 I use to be in banking and all of the commercial loans for new buildings were 25 years. It was said that was how long the buildings were made to last before the structural problems would start, I always thought it was just the roof. We had a visitor that was from Switzerland and they were surprised at how short term we thought. He explained that when anything was built in Switzerland it was expected to last for 100+ years. …So in the US it seems that insurance rules our world. I know people that build kitchens, additions and houses. They are excellent at what they do, but costs and insurance are so high here they would have to charge more than the majority of people could pay, to do things how they would want to.

[@Trenz0]

To be fair, completely different use-case (for the most part). In Europe land is scarce, everything is long established and development rarely changes. Here in the US, we have a ton of space and undeveloped land. The population is constantly shifting. The housing market is totally different too. So much speculative investment from people trying to build basic houses for cheap to flip and make a profit. We don't necessarily need to spend time making things last because it makes more sense to tear it all down and rebuild or just move somewhere else. Super wasteful, but unfortunately that's the economics of it

[@kermitfrog271]

As a German living in Switzerland, who also lived in the states for two years, I can relate to the educational facts. However what I really like about this video is this purely positive attitude and open-mindedness. You talk with respect and an eye to what you can learn from it. Thank you for that example!

[@ekio3572]

Dominik bist dus?

[@golemtabak1183]

For me as a Swiss, it is strange to see how fascinated you are. Here, when a plumber comes to your house to fix something, you know that he has learned and knows what to do. He can also advise you if you are planning a remodel. The same is true with the baker, electrician, salesman, and so on. I myself did an apprenticeship and two years of further training. That's pretty normal in Switzerland. The dual training program, which consists of working in the apprenticing company and attending school at the same time, has proven its worth. An interesting perspective, thanks for the video!

[@faguolvlv]

I think that it is normal for European people. Only the US do differently.

[@theodoremartin6153]

More corrupt government control is a great idea Keep your stupid ideas in Switzerland .

[@golemtabak1183]

@@pachinkotronkfollo1075 If you have a residence permit: Yes. There are also refugees who do an apprenticeship in switzerland.

[@Bob_Adkins]

Many plumbers here in te US aren't qualified to do the job correctly, yet charge as much per hour as a physician. I'm not qualified either but I work for free, so that's why I do my own plumbing.

[@Benmeglei1]

@@faguolvlv yes it’s different. We’re basically the dumbest mother f ers on the planet. 95% of Americans can’t even point to Switzerland on the map. We’re the best at getting fat and sick tho. Cheers.

[@Nudisten1996]

I'm a beginning woodworker and found this book kzbin.infoUgkxD-QRFQz730FJEh4f9BYSf-nkIMIC9hL_ gives useful advice on different types of tools & their usage, types of bits, safety etc. So when i do start to buy tools and bits, i basically know what to look for, how to use them & the types of woods certain bits are recommended to use on.

[@bakerzermatt]

Swiss school teacher here: So proud to see you enjoying and admiring what some of my students will do!

[@bighands69]

US just does it cheaper and better in many states. The US does not have a singular education system and is based at county and state level. If the swiss love their system and are happy with it that is what counts. Some US states and counties have a similar set up to Switzerland and have so for the last 100 years.

[@bakerzermatt]

@@bighands69 Switzerland also doesn't have a singular education system. Every canton has its own system, and sometimes there will be variation within the canton, especially if there are several official languages. For example, some have 5, and others have 6 years of primary school. Apprenticeships depend on the company you work at, but the certificate you get at the end is federal (and not dependent on the canton).

[@eirik874]

crazy schools you have over there! Wow this is way better than anything you will find in Norway to.

[@spiritblitz]

working on construction sites here in switzerland, i see more and more degradation in quality. it used to be way better. People seem to priorityse money before work. so most people loose sense of responability. it's this stupid lifestyle: i just wanna make money and do not care about how i do it… i am not against refugees, but mostly u see this with people that do not speak german… a lot of building companies here are held by italians, albanians, portugese and so on… again, i like other cultures but its sad to see this shift happening…

[@timellins]

are you working at one of these schools? Is there any chance to study there as foreigner (Italian) and not really young anymore (34 years old)?

[@FB-fm3ub]

I like to see professionals respectfully admiring the achievements of other professionals. That speaks for those guys a lot 👍

[@christophjannek5398]

Made me smile when you guys commented on those roof frame mockups the students were required to make in a way like "you don't have to do it like this, it's to show what could be done"... In fact here in Europe carpenters will be regularly called upon making repairs to houses that are considerably older than the USA as a nation, where nothing is a perfect 90° angle and you're often mandated to stick to historic practices in terms of wood connections. For a carpenter here it's not that unusual to be asked to put a new roof on a 350-year-old house with the goal of that lasting the next 100 years minimum while the average American carpenter spends his days building houses out of two-by-fours and drywall, aimed to last about 60 years or till the next tornado comes around.

[@nocturneJOJO]

I agree on everything, but as a fellow european we have to admit that not having tornadoes (or hurricanes for that matters) here it's a huge advantage... ;)

[@mihigyver]

was nur 100Jahr?! ich will mis geld zurg! 🤣

[@maxegloff3001]

also... we do still build like this new... it is still required as per sia norms lol

[@TheExcessus]

@@nocturneJOJO Hurricanes and Tornadoes are in specific areas of their country, no reason why you can't build properly in the other parts.

[@SteveB-nx2uo]

Wood is a cheap workable building product. Houses built properly last a lot longer than 60 years, and as a Maine resident I work on houses from the 1800s fairly regularly. Not making houses out of wood doesn't make you better, it just means you don't have access to good building materials and put way more effort into housing more people with less space. There are larger advantages to living in the US, like not paying income taxes, being able to own property, being able to speak freely, and not having a shitty elitist attitude with nothing to back it up. Also, we have a real military and GDP. The fact that you think most of the US has to worry about a tornado is a good summary of the education behind your comment.

[@MrJvchef]

Oh and by the way all this education is FREE. When I tell fellow chefs that I had to pay to go to culinary school, they are so confused and blown away. Living in Switzerland had changed my life.

[@philippangst]

"it's not about how fast can i get it done, it's about how correct can i get it done" , thank you guys for this! Swiss Carpenter and Joiner here, gives me a great push to go forward on my path. Cheers from Serbia

[@jeremiahjackson117]

As a carpenter who’s got some years of timber framing under my belt having designed, cut, assembled, raised and finished, I am humbled by the ocean of information these students are being fed in this school. A healthy sense of envy is what I’m experiencing and simultaneously inspired to deepen my knowledge and understanding of the different realms of the craft. Great video! Thanks for sharing it with us!

[@alextschumper9020]

And the best part of those apprenticeships is, that they are free.

[@arnodobler1096]

​@Alex Tschumper Apprentices are paid.

[@lespaul5734]

@@arnodobler1096 He meant that the program itself is free. Apprentices are paid of course

[@Lifecoach7Ra]

Not only the schools are first class but it’s the dual system. A carpenter apprentice e.g. works four days at a shop and goes one day to school for three years. They also then can specialize later. Even China was impressed by Swiss system. Problem here is only that young people do not want to work anymore and seek easy computer jobs. Today we lack of qualified workers e.g. carpenters, plumbing and heating fitters, PV installers, electricians, watchmakers, etc.

[@arnodobler1096]

@@Lifecoach7Ra same in Germany

[@zufrazi]

In Switzerland, all craftsmen have such a school. So painters, locksmiths, bricklayers, car mechanics, carpenters... And in the usually four years of apprenticeship you work four days a week in a company and one day you go to school for theory. In such a training center like in the video one goes twice in the year for one week each and learns thereby different practice in the handicraft. These schools are state funded, not privately funded. After the four years of training and passing the practical meteoretical exam, you are then a craftsman, not a master craftsman. After completing the apprenticeship and another 4 years of practice in the craft, you can then spend another year in the master craftsman training. During the training you get a salary from the company in which you work, not very high but at least you do not have to pay anything. And for carpenters there are two different trainings on the one hand the furniture carpenters and for interior finishing of houses and like the ones in the video construction of roof structures which also build entire houses

[@chedderburg]

It’s a disgrace that the us doesn’t do this. Instead it’s all “just go to college” get loaded up with debt then never use the stuff

[@hdj81Vlimited]

In Belgium also. Only USA is dictating the whole world but actually are a 3th world country.........

[@jonasbhmer9183]

To my Knowledge most of Europe does this. To varying degrees.

[@3LFL3DA]

In austria, we also have schools like this one for mechanical engineering, where in most countries, you'd have to go to uni/college in order to be an engeneer

[@Peter-jl4ki]

"you get a salary from the company in which you work, not very high" - Something that's relevant here is that the salary is about a 1/4 of what a person in a minimum wage job makes. These apprentices usually still live at home with their parents and this is seen as a part of a basic education, similar to what college has become in the US.

[@wastafus]

The trades in Europe were organised in Guilds since Roman times right up until the late 18th century. Some guilds in Germany (Zunft) are still in existence. You nailed it when you explained that the purpose of the school is allow the student to understand his/her trade holistically. I really hope you guys realise a “US Carpenter guild” with education system to match!

[@ash3rr]

I find them a fascinating part of history because it was this process of turning a journeyman into a master that is behind the beauty and quality of many early European products.The reason why many Zunft became defunct was because of manufactury, also their exclusion of people who were not of German birth from joining guilds. People generally believe that things only get better with time, but in this case, because we lost many of these guilds most products made today are not only less aesthetic but of an inferior quality.

[@19joni69]

I remember my girlfriend preparing for these exams, she told me part of why you use the old tools is that you might also work in restoration and here in Germany there are laws that govern how you do restoration on some of the buildings and these can include certain building techniques being required for old buildings that pretty much require hand tools to be used for a big part of it

[@randykephart3661]

US has same laws in older areas

[@ravanpee1325]

Yes, "Denkmalschutz" which could be translated to "protection of historic buildings and monuments" is taken serious here

[@ravanpee1325]

@@andreasthoben4645 Yes, but the problem is also what is considered a building with historical value (every 0815 building with e.g. industrial, standartized render) and the attitude "safe it no matter the cost and effort"

[@scratchy996]

I was visiting Sibiu / Hermannstadt in Transylvania a few years ago. They were renovating an old Saxon church , and they brought carpenters from Germany, because those skills have been lost in Romania.

[@Kareszkoma]

Also because power tools can be lacking, and just don't fit. In a construction site many things need to be done, and sometimes need to be done very well. While the power tool can does that, what if it doesn't fit? Or not good for that purpose? What if the power tool is not used well? This is the reason why knowing hand tools are important. Hand tools and power tools sometimes replace each other, but not always.

[@billchesser1475]

My father was a carpenter. He went through a union apprenticeship program (work in the day time, school at night). Near his retirement, his local union asked him to apply as an instructor for a new Job Corps center. He did it just to get the head guy off his back. Turned out he was the only person that passed the exam. That started a second career teaching kids carpentry. Upon graduation, each kid was give a toolbox with basic good quality tools and set up with a job and mentors.

[@anthonymorales842]

God bless your dad. Outstanding

[@edwardogrodnik7797]

Wish we had our technical colleagues back, I started at 15 some boys could not read or write most had extra tuition brilliant for them, I was doing carpentry and joinery which involved bending moments of timber steel concrete we where thought every trade for the building industry , the idea is you should know what every one is doing so there are no mistakes and so the next trade can follow on with no hold ups,

[@anthonyhulse1248]

Exactly as it should be!

[@johnnytocino9313]

Exactly, he went through a Union apprenticeship.

[@johnnytocino9313]

@@edwardogrodnik7797 We still do but they are underfunded and not promoted.

[@luikanami]

As a German growing up in a family of carpenters, i can confirm that all of those things aren't not only the same in Germany and many more european countries, also all the little "mockups" and traditional techniques are still very much used and required today in the repair and new construction of traditional houses.

[@nate9945]

Thank you for your video showing the great training that is being done in Switzerland. I run a Union 4 year United Brotherhood of Carpenters Apprenticeship program in Seattle where the Apprentices do many of the things shown in this video. All of the classes go in depth into the theory, not just the work being done, including the different wood species, log cuts, building science and safety regulations. 4 weeks of in class training are paired with 1700 field work hours each year. Just like the Swiss program, there is no cost to the Apprentices, since all of the training is jointly funded by both the union members and the contractors. At the end of the four year apprenticeship program, they become Journeymen Carpenters, earning a living wage with full medical benefits and a pension.

[@AC.Prince]

Definitely needs something like this in the states

[@benrex7775]

I'm a Swiss guy who did an apprenticeship, but in automation technology. I really apprechiate the Swiss education system. I wish you the very best in creating a good school over in America.

[@r00kiet80]

Naja übertriebe mume jetzt au nid hä

[@benrex7775]

@@r00kiet80 Wieso übertribe? Ich finds es sehr guets Usbildigssystem. Bisch scho mol in Amerika id schuel?

[@r00kiet80]

@@benrex7775 nei du scho oder was? Han au e automatiker lehr und die kaster sowas fu spare. Das veraltete schulsystem isch alles anderi als guet. Amerika isch nid besr das het au keine behauptet.

[@XDFreakLP]

weppaaa automatiker gang

[@benrex7775]

@@XDFreakLP 🥳

[@alpakalp9473]

Its very cool seeing you walking trough my Carpentry education. I go there about once a year in my apprentice.

[@moos5221]

There is a distinct advantage about having the craftmanship schools and examinations in Germany/Switzerland over just learning by doing in the USA. You can find very skilled craftsmen in both countries, no doubt about it. Having every craftsman learn the craft in a school with an examination as proof of knowledge & skill makes sure, that they understand the basics and specialities of the crafts. In the USA you can learn it all aswell, if you work for/with skilled craftsmen who are able to teach you their knowledge, but in the USA craftsmen are more prone to learning to do things in a wrong way if a craftsmen is doing it wrong and teaches the craft to another and that one will pass on the wrong techniques again and may add some more failures to it, so after a few generations of craftsmen there might be craftmen who are doing things completely wrong without ever knowing about it (until a house collapses or a roof goes flying). When every generation of craftsman gets taught in a craftsman school, they all learn how to do their craft the correct way. They may do things wrong later in their career, but they will not pass this on to the next generation, so the craft stays pure und untainted forever. I learned this the hard way when I lived in the USA and had my car repaired by a mechanic who hadn't learned his craft in a proper way but was mostly self taught. The initial repair lead to a more expensive repair later on, because the unlearned mechanic didn't know all the aspects of the craft. I was very confused to learn at that time, that he needed absolutely no qualification to work in the shop and that even the owner of the shop had no qualification other then "I've worked on cars all my live".

[@Eweber007]

We used to have schools like this in the U.S. When I went to high school in the early 80s, we had Tech schools. Half a day at high school, half a day at Tech for three years. There were carpentry, masonry, mechanics and so on. Unfortunately, those days are long gone. People are finally starting to wake up and realize that there's not an app for everything, you actually need people to do the work and there are few left that know how. We desperately NEED schools like this.

[@jrosner6123]

Preach it!!!

[@plwadodveeefdv]

There are still comprehensive high schools like this in the US that teach hvac, electronics, carpentry, etc. Just have to pay taxes to fund them and Americans hate that!

[@-themercyseat]

With the coming social credit score system, it's easy to see why they intentionally did this.

[@herpaderppa3297]

yeah, that's what Republicans do to you.

[@loganaurora]

@@plwadodveeefdv the problem isn't that we hate taxes is that there's so much corruption in America that the taxes never get where they're needed so I'd rather spend the money ourselves.

[@paulnelson9269]

I’ve been a carpenter for 30 years and would love to go do this training I wish we had this opportunity

[@kirkyorg7654]

i learned from dad and a hammer lol

[@nelsonattwood3821]

Yeah, likewise, ive been a carpenter for 30 years, now retired, i would love to now go back and go thru that sort of training to learn how to do it properly. In some ways reminded me of the Japanese carpenter's training and workmanship.

[@ugsoldun7871]

why not start such a 'school'? n yes, I am aware of how simple that question is i comparison to the immense complications of actually doing so. find like minded trades people, get funding, find a building and start training true craftsmen/women. The guy can only be called a "master carpenter" in the U.S., in europe he's a "bodger" simply banging bits of wood together n leaving gaps everywhere. (No offence intended btw)

[@thomaswayneward]

You had the opportunity, why didn't you take it? I can tell you why, it was unnecessary and over the top expensive.

[@sadhu4624]

@@thomaswayneward this is because NOTHING in america is build to last, from plujmbers, carpenters, everyone in america has a mindset like you.

[@felixtv272]

Stadler (Swiss train manufacturer) has started a swiss-style apprenticeship program for the trades they need at their Salt Lake City factory, so there are similar efforts for things like this in the US.

[@karstenbursak8083]

So did BMW for their Spartanburg car plant

[@mattcable6379]

Gobsmacked, enthused and really very envious.

[@derekcockerton5830]

Having lived in Switzerland for five years I am an ardent admirer of the German/Swiss/Austrian apprenticeship programmes for any vocational ‘trade’ - top class highly respected professional craftsmen/women are the result! I for one would love to spend a couple of years in a school like this even at my ripe old age!

[@theodoremartin6153]

It's all available for free on the internet. Screw governments who force people to get licenses for cutting wood . if I want to find out something I look ut up . I never call a government flunky to give me permission to work.

[@bighands69]

Some US states offer that as well. The Beauty of the US is that you can go to a state that offers what you want if you are unhappy.

[@rogerdudra178]

Greetings from the BIG SKY.

[@jgdooley2003]

The first thing I noticed in the video was the complete absence of vandalism or theft in the hand-tools display. If this was Ireland the place would be a lot dirtier and vandalised and most of the hand-tools would be missing. A large part of any hand craft training in Ireland is minding and securing your assigned set of tools. Lockers are used to secure every item after class and also everything has to be signed out of secure storage before each class. Trades people I have spoken to will tell you that securing your equipment is a high priority work skill, as is pricing work accurately to make a profit and getting paid on time, if you get paid at all. While some trades people are proud of their acquired skill-set others do not take much pride in their work and struggle constantly in their workplaces.

[@gcgopro6912]

@@jgdooley2003 A nation of thieves, just like us British!

[@alecharper515]

One of the most life-changing moments for me growing up in the 1960s was when my Austrian mother convinced my American dad to buy a simple alpine farmhouse tucked in the S. Austrian alps accessed via an unpaved set of switchbacks used by logging trucks and farmers and herders. The old chap next door (come to think of it, not much older than I am now...!) taught me the elements of woodworking, tool sharpening, faith, and patience. I must have had a sense of how special this all was back then. I certainly do now. Thankfully, an old black and white photo survives of this kindly old chap and me. Yes, if only someday we here in the US would take these trades more seriously and with greater pride. But I do see a Renaissance as represented by the people featured in this excellent video.

[@jan-erikbaars7413]

"It's about how well you can get it done, not how fast you can get it done, which separates Swiss for US crafts.." Good things need time. Great video!

[@Cyberdinemechatron]

...and last longer usualy...greets from Switerland from a former carpenter. 🙂

[@coops4549]

This was so interesting to watch and I picked up how humble you are. I was trained as a carpenter in NZ and was not allowed to use a power tool for 2 years until I mastered every hand tool and knew how to sharpen them. I had to cut a roof out by hand and the wall framing and all finishing mitres. As apprentices we were required to attend night school 2 evenings a week for theory and 4 week block course for detailed practical twice a year. In later years I went to Japan and worked and needed to start my wood working education again. I thought I was capable until working beside Japanese carpenters.

[@kgs2280]

The old-school Japanese joinery is incredible. I have an old book on it, and, to me, it’s a book of art. So much joinery that doesn’t require any nails or screws, and lasts for many years. But that’s how they look at so much of their craftwork, as art, as an art, as much as a skill. And, no, I’m not a carpenter or a woodworker; I just really love Japanese craftsmanship in all its forms.

[@AtlasofInfo]

That's amazing. I wish we had this level of education in trade schools today.

[@vihreelinja4743]

@@kgs2280 its also the earthquages that need different joints and doing it without nails is better as it remains flexible.

[@garyarmstrong9530]

I was an apprentice way back when the earth was young. My friend was a plumber apprentice and served 7 years. Carpenters and most other trades were all 5 years back then and we all either had night-school or correspondence and then trade school for 2 weeks each year. When we completed that, we were called Journeymen and expected to move on to get experience for at least a year before earning a tradesman's wage. Now most engineering & trades apprenticeships seem to be around 3.5 yrs in NZ.

[@kgs2280]

@@vihreelinja4743 Maybe more people should learn how to do that here in California then.

[@ulrichsuter3548]

I made it from a trained bricklayer with a Swiss degree to Harvard - studying and doing research. One might think the two things are not connected. Well, they are. In Switzerland, we have pretty much the same apprentice model for every trade. Plumbers, Electricians, Carpenters, Bricklayer... you name it. You work for 3 to 4 days a week and go to school one or two days a week. You have some intensive courses where you go to a camp for one or two weeks on top of it. You get tested all the time and you know where you are weak and where you need to improve. There is a lot of pride and discipline because in the end - construction is about getting things done the right way. Having lived and studied in Boston, I know a four-year program simply won't work in the US. But maybe an accelerated program in-person program for about 8 to 10 weeks could work. Online learning only helps you that much since a student needs a real in-person teacher to ask when he or she didn't understand a detail the first time. Or simply misses a detail to start with.

[@Brad-jg9vh]

Europe has a greater respect for the trade at every level. Good American potential craftsman are put off to the trades because of the elements entering the trade, the clients disrespect and the physical end. We definitely need schools like this in every trade. Without shelter we are animals. Carpenters, plumbers and electricians need to be given respect. Respect starts at home and then at school. Thank you for bringing this to everyones attention. Its huge! Only takes one peddle to make a wave.

[@mirjameisenegger5835]

You must unterstand, that these courses are part of 9 „external“ practical courses over 4 years. We also got the permit to drive different forklifts and for the chainsaw and also got educated in fall protection. During this 4 years we also visit carpentry theoretical school once a week where we learn math and drawing etc. And beside al this we work on the constructionside to gain knowledge. The valleys are made here in switzerland. With CNC it even won‘t take more time. I was one of the students in this center and appreciated my time there very much.

[@peaceenjoyer]

mega cool

[@BelviGER]

Stapler(tacker) or forklift (gabelstapler)?

[@juri14111996]

@@BelviGER forklift

[@andu__]

what's the name of this school?

[@RootedHat]

Switzerland, land of apprenticeships!

[@monacurkovic9420]

The most of this hand tools we used also in Switzerland at the elementary school in the regular handicraft class when I was 10 years old. The basic use and handling with this tools at a young age and the trust from craft-teachers and parents to let us handle chisel, welding machine, band saw, jig saw and planer, starts growing the interest in craftsmanship for girls and boys and gives confidence and sense of responsibility. I have benefited a lot from it and chose after a craft profession.

[@afs3294]

Real training for a real occupation, starting at high school ages. We need to improve our programs if carpentry and other trades are going to be viewed as desirable occupations in the US.

[@vanderumd11]

I work in the trades. The amount of wear on my body over 15 years compared to office work is night and day. It's going to be difficult to get people in the elements. The industry of printing is going to give much relief in 10 years. 3 guys will be able to print a house in a weekend

[@torref9230]

​@@vanderumd11 No doubt manual labor is always going to be hard on the body. However, this is also an argument for more education. Learning to work smarter, knowing your limits, and knowing proper safety are all aspects of training that are often overlooked or willfully ignored when you learn on the job. To your other point, sitting at a desk all day is also not good for one's physical health.

[@vanderumd11]

@@torref9230 how many men have you seen literally cut off limbs at work. How many men have you seen literally have bones broken at work. Actually have you ever held pieces of a man together until paramedics arrive. I'm talking about building structures out of mud and dirt. Hanging 37' in the air on a roof cutting a beam off with one hand... Grabbing 700lb beams as they swing out or a heavy storm blows in. The elements and accidents cannot be avoided all the time. The only problem with desk jobs is boredom. We have been there. It is only draining because people would rather get paid not to work.

[@zteaxon7787]

When the despotic, enemy run government hates the people and floods the place with disruptive, hostile foreigners to subvert any meaningful community initiatives. Taking up all of the resources then of course it will never work. Americans are targeted for genocide by functionally making impossible and outright banning any and all community engagement. They want you divided and helpless. Anything you would try to do will be seized to serve strangers. Leaving you only individualism which obviously isn't threatening to the vicious power which has its own neighbourhoods, political, cultural organisations, corporations and everything else openly. While banning you from having and maintaining them.

[@zteaxon7787]

@@vanderumd11 It depends on the business obviously. There are plenty of carpenters that are highly fit and healthy into their 80s. While fat and congested desk job people died off from lack of engagement. I have a desk job and try to get my hands dirty when not making money building, home improving. Obviously being into residential or commercial construction there are hazards. But safety has come a long way since the early skyscrapers as well. When you feel fulfilled after a day of physical labor with visible results instead of feeling existential dread staring at a screen giving you errors all day physical damage may well be less severe than a broken spirit from a boring desk job. But it all depends on conditions and the job you have.

[@CodPlayerNo77]

In der Schweiz ist die Arbeit mit Holz ein präzises und ehrenwertes Handwerk 🤝

[@thetazva]

I have just recently retired after 40 plus years as a contractor and carpenter specializing in resttoration and finish carpentry. I am seriously impressed with the school and the skills being taught at the schools.We honestly have nothing that compares here in the US. While we do have some excellent carpenters what we lack are dedicated schools to teach these skills before they are lost.Impressive school.

[@maxegloff3001]

i can thell you that they got a lot wrong. this is not a school program that you go through its an apprenticeship where you work for 4 days a week and have 1 school day. on school days you only have theory and drawing but also common knowledge like taxes etc. the work you saw the kids doing is during their ük which are courses transcending the company level to assure all carpenters share the same knowledge and skills. holzbau schweiz is the association of all carpentry companies and they set the standards for these courses and they develop the school materials. the school part is paritally funded by the state though. every professinal in switzerland has gone through something like this...either studied or did an apprenticeship.

[@maxegloff3001]

also they are not becoming master carpenters they will just be carpenters. a master is many, many levels higher.

[@tigersharkzh]

Swiss apprenticeships in any profession are awesome. I went to Zürich, Switzerland for a 6-month language course and added a 4-year apprenticeship in mechanical engineering to it. Best choice I ever made.

[@obsoquasi]

I'm Swiss and this has been really interesting to watch from an outside perspective.

[@justinjacobson4852]

My son just started a two-year trade school program (not carpentry). His employer for the past two years wants him to come back after school and offered him $2000 for school costs per year if he would commit. I told him to pay for it himself ($20k/year) and he could name his price later. I think this carpentry school has got it right--if employers want skilled workers AND commitment, employers should be willing to pay for the training. If they just want to do it cheaply (as most American companies do), they can expect neither quality nor commitment.

[@themoonbubble]

It’s amazing what you can learn when you’re not worried about what’s between your legs and what color it is

[@AndrewSpencer2]

Yesterday I visited my old high school. The once prestigious industrial arts program was shut down years ago. I would have loved attending a school like this which is light-years beyond what we had then. And now, there is nothing.

[@bobweiram6321]

LOL! America doesn't value anything. It's all about getting rich with the least amount of knowledge and effort.

[@oldscratch3535]

@@bobweiram6321 That's human nature. To get the most reward for the least amount of work. Its not an American concept. You'd actually be stupid to do anything else b/c the people around you aren't going to reward you for it.

[@JRBCBaseballGuy]

@@oldscratch3535 It may not be an "American concept" but it forms a significant part of the USA's set of values. At the risk of generalizing, you value quantity over quality. Why spend the time, effort and money on one good quality item when I can have 10 poorer quality ones. If one breaks (house, car, tool, etc.) I'll just buy a cheap replacement. Many other societies value quality over quantity. Switzerland and many other European countries are perfect examples. In the USA why buy a well built quality house that could last 200 years when I can pay 25% less? So what if it only lasts 20 years, I won't be living in it...

[@snowsurfr]

@@oldscratch3535 you couldn’t be more wrong. In every industry, the people at the top of their field are very rewarded for their work and the those who did the bare minimum of learning their trade craft or industry continue to fail until they learn through on the job training, are terminated or the business is sued. The repercussions of this the lack of public schools offering building trades classes has resulted become a major problem from infrastructure to residential building, in many communities across the USA. If you don’t me, ask any licensed tradesman.

[@oldscratch3535]

@@snowsurfr I don't need to ask a tradesman. I was a roofer for 15 years.

[@mycowboyways915]

I'm jealous of the amazing wood they get to work with. Even the most simple things they build look like art.

[@Peter-pi4zo]

The dignity of work, that's a beautiful thing.

[@alexandrugajin763]

This is really how every school should look like

[@dougmcgill9294]

I came from a military background to finish carpentry two years ago. One thing that I realized immediately was that there were ZERO formal training opportunities to get a solid grasp on the basics before I started installing trim on jobsites. The learning curve was (and is) steep, very steep at times especially when you're working on fully custom luxury homes. It's easy to get discouraged because of having to figure things out as you go/on your own, and another issue that comes up is the old hands are either too ornery or just not interested in teaching all that they know because they are worried about a motivated fast riser taking their job, which is completely stupid. There a lot of issues in our trade, but good to see some guys like you trying to work together to find solutions.

[@vanderumd11]

When you teach younger workers it increases job speed lol old guys showed me how to get 40 years out of an industry

[@QBRX]

Yeah, I remeber being young and having ornery old guys not wanting to help. Very discouraging!

[@dustinmarquand5301]

I've seen both helpful and grumpy aged carpenters.. I've also watched many if not most skilled trades teach their future competition at their own expense just trying to get help on projects. I'd probably relate many of the issues back to poor or no business practices.

[@jgdooley2003]

As a young man in 1970's Ireland that was the attitude in trades. Most senior trades people wanted to keep the juniors "in their place" and proper knowledge was lacking and the imparting of that knowledge to juniors was seen as a threat to the established seniors. Very few sectors had a properly funded and ran training function in order to develop and train people in their chosen field. I was lucky to get employed by 2 foreign companies which valued training and were able to give people the needed skills and training to keep useful and employed. Others were not so lucky and had trouble keeping employed in later life.

[@RobWhittlestone]

This is a wonderful video. It makes me immensely proud of the Swiss apprenticeship model. Kudos to the two gentlemen presenters for their humility and honesty and vision for US craftsmen. All the best, Rob in Switzerland

[@greenstair]

There's a fundamental difference in being in a career to make money and working in it to do a good job and letting the quality determine the reward.

[@waybatch1506]

I can only speak for the educational system in Germany. I am a carpenter and I worked in Switzerland for about 1,5 years. Without that 4 year (Switzerland, in Germany mostly 3 years) apprenticeship, you are not a carpenter or any other craftsman like bricklayer, blacksmith, roofer, joiner, painter and so on. You don't get to call yourself a carpenter or anything. And believe me, "Zimmerer" are one of the craftsman, that really take pride in their profession and love the tradition of carpentry. There is a specific dress code, at least in Germany. Not every carpenter wears "Kluft", but I do. It's like the white coat for doctors. Back to education... :) If you fail the final test after 3 years of learning, you are officially no carpenter. And you don't get to call yourself carpenter unless you pass the final exam. The pride comes into play here. :P After passsing you get a certificate = "Gesellenbrief" or "Facharbeiterbrief". With that piece of paper you officially are a carpenter and can look for jobs in carpentry. Otherwise it's a lot harder to even find a job in construction, because you are just not educated enough. It's great to see you guys appreciating the apprenticeship and the way of education so much, because in Germany, Switzerland, Austria it's the basic knowledge for becoming a carpenter in those countries. I don't mean to sound arrogant. That's just the way it is in those countries. It's the basic knowledge that is required to become a carpenter. People seem to forget, that it really is an "art", as you called it. For becoming a "Master carpenter" you will have to do another year of school in full time, or 3 years of education beside the work you still have to do from monday to friday. School is on fridays after work and saturdays then. As I mentioned for 3 years additionally to your 3 year apprenticeship. So after 6 years of education and practice your could be a Master. You get the "Meisterbrief" after passing the final tests. I would wish for that appreciation for crafts here in Germany. Very cool to see you that interested and passionate about carpentry! All the best from Germany :) I really loved watching this.

[@flecktrain]

Its the same so called "dual system" in Austria, where you often have a lt of snow on the roof. So static has to be excellent. Apprentices come to roofmaker/carpenter-school either once the week or a month/year. I loved it! B*/Vienna

[@bellissimo4520]

The Swiss approach to standardizing apprenticeships nation-wide (all of them usually 3 or 4 years long), and to combine learning on the job with going to school, is really one of the things that Switzerland should export to the rest of the world. It is a great option for young people who don't want or can't go to university. Not to mention, that in an apprenticeship, you already earn your first, very own wage (although a small one). I think many countries that are now very focused on people either becoming academics, and if not, remain untrained/uneducated, would profit from this system.

[@magnushelin007]

Absolutely!

[@Alex-gj2uz]

Its great to see so much appretiation from 2 experts.

[@StazKodama]

great attitude! also feel a little proud for our carpenters :)

[@TheGoodOldDays-IsNow]

I come from an English speaking country but live in Germany for more than thirty years. As in Switzerland, an apprenticeship takes three to four years, unless you start with an Abitur (matriculation level - i.e. the qualification required to enter university), in which case your apprenticeship "might" be reduced by a year. At the end you are a qualified tradesman, but still a long way from a master. To get to that level, you need a number of years experience (depending on which trade it is), then you need to go back to school to learn additional trade related skills as well as business and legal related topics. Knowledge of the laws relating to a trade is a major requirement for opening a company, therefore for all skills related businesses a Master and only a Master can start his own company. A normal electrician, carpenter, mechanic, painter, etc. cannot start his own company. For example, an electrician needs to know (and pass a state exam on) what is legally allowed when wiring houses, large buildings, manufacturing plants, etc. Only buildings signed off by a Master Electrician can be connected to the national grid, and if for example there is a fire due to incorrect wiring, the Master Electrician can be held responsible. In that respect he has a higher status than most engineers and he may even be required to check the work carried out by engineers to ensure it conforms with the law. To get around that, engineers can also take the state exams, but most of them don't. In my estimation, this system is what's at the heart of Germany's famed engineering skills. It's not so much that they have better engineers than other countries, even though they are very good, but it's because the people building what those engineers develop are so well trained. Also, tradesmen are respected here and a Master is recognised as the equivalent of a Bachelor degree. But there is still a major shortage of skilled tradesmen and it's getting worse year by year. But don't get the idea that it's like that everywhere in Europe! My German brother-in-law moved to another European country, which shall remain nameless, and he tells me that 80% of their tradesmen are very poorly trained and the system of education for them is way below what he's used to.

[@michaellane1316]

I've worked as a heavy equipment mechanic for over 45 years, didn't consider myself a master of anything until at least 35 years had passed, and still learning.

[@janhoelterling4320]

I grew up in Germany and learned my trade there in a very similar way (though now I live in the US). I sooo miss this type of education for my kids! I wish more people here realized what a great way to teach young people this is!

[@theodoremartin6153]

You know why people bail out of Europe? Cause everyone is broke from taking orders from government flunkies . Take your idiotic ideas and go back there fool .

[@bighands69]

The move to a US state that has trades schools and stop whining about it. There is a reason why you choose to live in the US over Germany. And you full well know what it is.

[@janhoelterling4320]

@@bighands69 You know nothing about me, and your comment is whole unnecessary.

[@nieczerwony]

It's more important to know your pronouns and how many genders there are 🤣

[@c0dy42]

@@nieczerwony where tf has anyone anywhere said anything about gender? just stfu and move on...

[@daverothwell4579]

What a humbling experience to see this. This is the type of school that should be the standard in the US and Canada. Incredible.

[@blacky4947]

i‘m a german carpenter and our job education looked almost the same. These small models i also had to build. It‘s good for understanding if you have to work with big material on the jobsite. But also our education cost about 50.000$ and takes about 3 years to complete which has to pay the Company where you will work with.

[@RoyatAvalonFarms]

We definitely need schools like this all over the US. And not even just for carpentry, but rather as a model school for many trades. Thanks for filming the tour.

[@astronemir]

Great point. We need these schools now before the knowledge dies with the generation that last got it. It was 50 years ago anyone was even educated like this in the US. If you don’t believe that the knowledge will be lost, history is rife with lost skills from once great civilizations. The chain is broken easily.

[@jgdooley2003]

@@astronemir Similar situation in Ireland regarding craft trades. There is a toxic snobbery against people entering trades and university is seen as the sole pathway to prosperity and security. This has got so bad that people no longer can afford to obtain a house in their own country because there is no longer the capacity to build enough houses to adequately house our people. A similar malaise exists in the UK. Every one wants to be a pencil pushing beureaucrat but nobody wants to do the actual hands-on work involved in building or developing housing. There was a year recently when NO apprentice tilers completed their training in tiling in Ireland. Similar shortages exist in many other trades such as plumbing and plastering which have to be filled from abroad, especially from Poland and Eastern Europe. Another big problem, especially among electricians, is factory work taking people from construction due to better pay and conditions. A similar sectoral stress exists with health-care workers moving from senior and child care into private acute healthcare as soon as they are qualified to do so. Ireland used to lose many of its people to emigration due to lack of jobs. Now it is a lack of affordable housing that is a big driver in emigration as the young Irish flee to less expensive places in order to afford rents in their new countries.

[@thomaswayneward]

Why do we need schools all over the United States of America. We have government schools for your children all over each State, what do you think of those schools?

[@MarkusMahlberg]

Funny thing is: That is the model of all trades basically all over Europe. And when those young kids finish it, they are not considered Master Craftsmen, but Journeyman Apprentices. Becoming a Master Craftsman usually takes another class. I do not know how long it is in Switzerland, but a Master Class takes 3-4 years in Germany, depending on the trade. Additionally, it used to be that you needed to prove a couple of years of work experience as a Journeyman Apprentice.

[@RoyatAvalonFarms]

@@thomaswayneward oh government schools absolutely suck. They sure aren't for my kids. That's why I homeschool. But these kind of schools to which I'm refering should not be state schools, but rather private. They could be operated privately by certain industries or trade associations. Several ways to pay for them could include private pay by the student, by companies who hire the graduates as their apprentices/journeymen for an agreed upon number of years, or possibly by industries who pool their resources through dues from the companies who chose to affiliate and invest. There are surely other ways as well. No reason to limit it. Successful models will rise to the top.

[@Philipp31415]

i am a Swiss too and didnt do an apprenticeship but my son is now doing one and I am very impressed how serious the company he works for takes it and the focus on quality. And it's nice that they are also allowed to make mistakes. The apprentice of my car garage managed to destroy the engine of my car but it was all relaxed and everyone accepts that kids can make mistakes.

[@lb2791]

A guy I went to school in Switzerland with became a carpenter and emigrated to NYC. He's making great money doing custom stuff for expensive appartments. Apparently, his skills are very sought after. I think he's pretty good at his job though, he used to build wooden skate parks as a hobby back in Switzerland.

[@ginobarrone5670]

This is a program we need to continue to have a skilled workforce in the future.

[@christheswiss390]

I'd like to clarify a misconception in this video: After a three or four year vocational training in one of the fifty or so trades and school education in general topics, every apprentice in Switzerland receives a national certificate of achievement in his/her particular trade. Why is it so important that this certificate is a NATIONAL certificate? Because it lets any employer know that if he hires a tradesman of a specific trade, he'll know what this person is capable of, which skills he will bring with him/her, and which types of work he/she can expect the new hire to complete. This is extremely important to assess the salaries that can be paid as well as which projects such a person can do right after his / her certification, or 5 years later, even 10 years later, etc. To become an instructor responsible for the eductaion os apprentiices, a swiss certified carpenter (for example) must first work for a few years in his profession , then do an additional 2 year education to become a formal Master Carpenter. Again, this is a national certificate with a nationally defined curriculum that must be achieved and is tested in national exams (to ensure the same standards are applied in all language regions and states of Switzerland). This professional carpenter then will carry the titel of a nationally certified Master Carpenter. The level of knowledge required to achieve this status is extremely high and encompasses not only carpenter skills, but also educational knowledge, business, general legal and accounting skills, math, material sciences and many more topics.

[@ClarkeLSmith]

I’m Swiss too and I did my apprenticeship in business management and accounting - totally unrelated to my current profession of cameraman (with CBS News) and cinematography enthusiast - my favorite part of the way Swiss apprenticeships are structured is that you work a 5 day work week and during that week, you go to school 2 days and work 3 days (I was in school on Mondays and Thursdays my first year for instance) This way you got to put to actual Real World practice what you learned that previous day. I loved it! A Swiss childhood friend of mine has his master and it’s so impressive to see him work. I’m not in the construction industry but I am very interested and have been through a gut renovation of a condo I used to own (and renovating my current house) and worked very closely with the contractor during the entire process… I was surprised at times to see how they would try to skip important steps to make things right… needless to say they had to re-do them anyway… and how often they would not even bother to read the manuals of some of the items I brought to the build stating that they had been doing it for “15 years”. And only after one week of working with them I realized that I had to be on site every day and watch everything. It was very upsetting. But it also forced me to learn about construction. And I don’t say that I know everything, I’m learning every day. The pride and seriousness that Swiss people take in their profession - especially those who had training through an apprenticeship - is very apparent. The skill level that tradesmen achieve after an apprenticeship in Switzerland matches and often surpasses the skill of some kids coming out of College is the US… and I think part of that is because they are putting into practice what they learn every week instead of doing a four-year degree and trying to figure things out after they graduate, when often, manners of doing things changed. I would love nothing more than to see serious trade schools in the USA. It’s one thing to learn on the job, it’s a very different approach to do an apprenticeship where you are guided by a master throughout the entire apprenticeship. Funny enough, my apprenticeship was at REICHENBACH & Cie, S.A. In Sion so even though I worked in the office, I got to experience a lot of what was shown on this video today. thanks a lot for the memory flashback!

[@ellarweegadsden8483]

Over here we'd get all involved in states' rights and have 50 different certification boards, with each state allowing businesses to determine what's to be done and how.

[@Pocketfarmer1]

@@ellarweegadsden8483 Switzerland’s population is about the same size as NewYork city’s. Just sayin’.

[@ellarweegadsden8483]

@@Pocketfarmer1 That was my point.

[@jrkorman]

@@ellarweegadsden8483 Then multiply that by each major city wanting to "make it their own"

[@jean-lucpeltier7005]

As a German carpenter it is funny to see how surprised you are and how little you feel you understand, especially in Germany this craft has a lot of tradition. I would like to see what you say when you watch a master here I think you could learn a lot

[@Rondo2ooo]

In Switzerland or in Germany learning the craft is another story. Carpenter, roofer, electrician, etc. It's in depth theory and practice, and you can see it clearly in the results. I wish that was more common across other countries because it levels quality.

[@PiotrMys]

Nice to see you appreciate. The whole apprenticeship system is one of the reasons everything in Switzerland is of such high quality... and that I have no problem trusting a 20yo fixng my plumbery or any other part of my house :)

[@KeithHill2]

My town has a huge career center during sophomore thru senior years of high school. All the building trades were right there. The foresight was great. They purchased 100s of acres near the school for subdivisions. Each year the school completed at least one home all by the students. The home was sold and the profits went back to help fund the school. The school even had botany and a landscaping department. During the senior year statewide trade competitions were held were contractors could do direct hire and guarantee students jobs upon Graduation. This was one of the best trade schools in the nation as far as I’m concerned. Mostly hands-on. The way it should be. We waste billions giving to other countries and paying student loans. We should be investing in our kids futures and the nation.

[@madisonrallis9334]

Here in Canada, we have a carpenter by the name of Patrick Moore who teaches the drafting/layout techniques seen around 0:10:27 He studied these techniques in France, but many other countries in Europe, like Switzerland, teach them as well. He offers courses throughout Canada and the Eastern U.S. and would be a great follow up to this video because he is actively trying to revive these techniques here in North America

[@boromirofmiddleearth557]

we need these programs in the US! great video! thank you. Children, young adults need guidance on how to work with their minds and hands. The myth is that a young person can be anything they want. Rather than going with a students strengths and building on that.

[@Aidan-tu4un]

The Swiss Apprentice system for ALL trades is awesome. I arrived with my young kids 7 years ago and it is one aspect of the Swiss education system that I am most impressed with.

[@creativedave]

Beginner hobbyist woodworker here. I feel like everything you mentioned here is 100% TRUE. From day 1 we're taught in the States to not work with your hands, and if you end up doing that you are somehow beneath someone who went and got a 4 year degree doing something else. The end result: we have an infrastructure which seems to be under a constant state of decay. Forgive me if I'm sounding naive and ignorant; it's just my perspective. Although woodworking/carpentry is not my profession, I have a tremendous amount of respect for people who work with their hands as I'm now finally venturing into woodworking in the middle of my life. I think if we want to see change, the actual conversation and mindset needs to be changed first (pride needs to be instilled in our youth today). It will be extremely difficult but it's all about speed here (like you said), and time is money. Thank you for posting this incredible video, it's really inspiring.

[@psdaengr911]

Your perspective is different from mine. I learned a strong sense of self. I wasn't a object that was to be passively "taught" like a part stamped in a machine. My biggest failures came from forgetting that and letting other's make or force decisions for me. I learned from watching others to make decisions, to chose to understand whatever I was asked to do, to value and appreciate the effort of anyone who was trying their best to do a good job and try to understand what they did, why they did it that way. I never stopped actively earning. Imo. I'm a novice at everything, including the profession I spent 40 years doing. There is always more to learn than I have learned.

[@creativedave]

@@psdaengr911 Thank you for your perspective. It’s inspiring.

[@danielhawkins6425]

A couple years out of college with an engineering degree, I met a high school classmate who'd become an auto mechanic. He was reluctant to shake my hand, apologizing that his was still grimy. I told him he shouldn't be ashamed of honest work, and shook his hand anyway.

[@musicbro8225]

I think pride and satisfaction are essential for a healthy human. When JFK said, 'We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard...' sums it up for me! Now days people do everything they can to avoid working hard, it is their prime motivation and one that produces pseudo pride and satisfaction, something more like 'people will envy me because I made a lot of money and avoided doing any work'.

[@hdj81Vlimited]

this is how a socialist government works. In Belgium also gooing that way.........downhill and FAST..... because USA is controlling them........

[@laurinswoodstudio]

That was really interesting for me as a swiss furniture maker/carpenter. I've learned a lot about how different the education system in the US is compared to switzerland. I think we are definitely really privileged here in switzerland with this education system.

[@bighands69]

The US does not have a singular education system, health system or police force. It tends to be done at the local level. The biggest counties (cantons) in the US are bigger than Switzerland which means there is a lot of verity in the US. Some states do offer Swiss and German like trade schools while others offer nothing. Some states will have very specialized approaches due to them having industries that are specific to their state. Utah for example is not going to have a fishing industry like Florida or New Hampshire so there are not going to be options for training in that field.

[@fepeerreview3150]

Thanks for doing this video! It's great for Americans to see what people are doing in other countries. Real carpentry! Not just boards cut to length, slapped together and attached with metal straps. I've traveled a lot in Switzerland and southern Germany. They are making houses like this today and they are really beautiful homes. And not just "homes for the rich". I plan to build a house in Europe myself, in 2-3 years. I'll be working with a cabinet maker in Switzerland to have the kitchen fittings made to order.

[@wischmopps293]

Humility from us Americans? Refreshing

[@kimberlyokeeffe5360]

My maternal side is Swiss/German and I get the do it right the first time. My Grampy was not a master carpenter but did make cabinets and such for himself and a select few family members. I got to 'help' on a few projects and I can tell you that most of what he made is still in use today. It's been over 50 years and these pieces are still as study as the day they were put together. This country is so behind Europe when it comes to trades. It's such a shame that we can't have these types of schools available for our kids.

[@ronh9384]

There are some available you just have to find them. They won’t have the same building techniques but there are some available.

[@glennduxbury2568]

Real, solid wood

[@davidanderson1060]

I love this school and the service it provides. Another challenge we have in the US is to educate the public to demand (and be willing to pay for) higher quality buildings. The market follows demand. When people are uneducated about the materials that live behind the paint on the their walls, they aren't willing to pay more for the quality of those materials and the time it takes to put them together.

[@vanderumd11]

To be honest.. most people I know do not have the patience nor care for advanced building. They want to be at a house for 15years and move on. They are not thinking about passing the house on

[@RandomActsOfMadness]

These kids are mainly going to build multifamily residentials, and many times of the developer will continue to own the house, creating incentive for good builds. Also Switzerland has a very strong historical culture of building houses, given that they have been limited in space so the houses needed to last a long time. Also, let’s not forget that the somewhat shady swiss banking industry creates a lot of wealth, and by demanding swiss taught master carpenters that wealth inflation can be passed on to the carpenters, creating a viable living and higher motivation among carpenters. You won’t see many swiss carpenters competing for jobs outside of switzerland. But we all benefit from their local price/quality inflation, through youtube content at least. Great video!

[@johnsmith9903]

I said above.There also has to be a regulatory push for better quallity. no Inspection and you get a race to the bottom. And I think with siding over studs in some parts the US is there.

[@KjetilBalstad]

In Norway a certain quality is demanded by law, and the book with the requirements is |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| this thick...

[@wora1111]

As others have said, in Europe we tend to build homes, not houses. We expect one of the kids to take over the house and live there with its family. When houses are sold usually the structural elements are sound and changes are mad for the interior design (flooring, windows, heating system etc.). And we preferably hire craftsmen from our village. And everybody will talk about the quality of their work (It broke after only twenty years of usage ...). Just noticed I never argue about the price, only about the quality I expect.

[@transequitur]

Very inspiring even though the Swiss have had a reputation for excellence for as long as I can remember. To contrast this to what we do in Amerika is truly sad. I became a union apprentice carpenter in Southern California in 1977 and watched the slow decline of the construction industry; especially the last 20 years have really been a race to the bottom. Despite that, I'm very glad I have the skills I do. If we could only emulate the EU educational system, but sadly, we're too myopic. Thanks to NS Builders !

[@juliehenderson1672]

Awesome! Establish a school like that in USA.

[@ryangrimm9305]

Kudos to you for presenting this. As I have looked over this and other schools, I know that at best at present I would be considered, MAYBE, a second-year student. I'm now 69 years old. So much of crash-and-burn learning goes on in this country, it appalls me. I tried to get into a timber framing apprenticeship program in the late 1970s, but as my father had NEVER taught me German (indeed, discouraged me), I could not get into the schools in Germany. I would have eventually had dual citizenship as a descendant of German grandparents, and a full college education (but frankly, wanted the wood work skills)...but that is a long and complex story, as things happen. I DID have the opportunity on a few occasions to work with properly school-trained carpenters from Germany and Switzerland, but this was mostly in my late 40s and 50s. The gaps in my understanding exposed me to the chasm between my abilities R.E. work habits and tool use skills. I am glad you removed the humiliating 'master carpenter' from your business cards. When you get exposed to such high levels of workmanship, it is a lesson in itself. Foe many years I had learned to support myself as what we call a handyman. My object was to get in, get out, and in finishing have no evidence that I had ever been there. Nowadays I am training myself in more tool use and finishing techniques...not applying finishes, but rather the fitting of joints, proper use of fasteners (and when not to), etc. Right now I'm in the process of completely rebuilding and re-evaluating my small shop for proper function, utility, and ease of use. I have been going through my hand and power tools, getting rid of lesser quality and utility items, and finding things of which I have multiples and passing them on to another recent retiree who desperately needs to take in some training, and hope I can pass on to him what few lessons I have learned in a sometimes hard and struggling life. When the shop is in full order, my first tasks will be to completely re-handle all of my wood chisels, and re-hang several axes. Then a matter of some work to make some pocket change: mallets of various types, frame and turning saws, etc. This will, with further networking, I hope, lead me to a set of gigs as a (late) apprentice timber framer. I'd worked on seven timber buildings, two of which were new work, and have found it to be the ONLY thing I've done and enjoyed doing.

[@stevensondrake]

I trained as a carpenter in Ireland and has a very similar 4year apprenticeship. Onside working for a company then college for some of the time. Its allowed me to jump into any area of carpentry all over the world. Great system.

[@mathieusarran7833]

My favourite videos made by Americans in ages…. Reminds me of my time in US university…. They had No clue about anything but super proud of what they were told they were supposed to be

[@BenjaminKibbey]

I would give anything for there to be a school like this for our youngest when he is older. At 7, he was making perfectly square cross cuts with a handsaw. He's 9 now, and the other day, I showed him how to cut a mortise with a chisel, just once. Tonight, I came across him with the chisels I gave him cutting a square mortise just for the fun of it, and doing it correctly. I am no carpenter, just a hobbyist, and trying to learn things now just so I can help him learn and grow, but there's only so far that can go. Most schools have nothing for industrial arts, and there is so much talent like his that is going to go underutilized because of that. Honestly, I was watching this video thinking about what it would take to learn German and move to Switzerland just so he could have a chance at a school like this.

[@kathleenmallory154]

If you can, try to make it happen. Even if you send him on his own to live with a host family. Learning a sufficient amount of German is a must, this will give your son opportunities in Germany, Switzerland and Austria - all countries with an excellent apprenticeship system.

[@stairman3151]

I had carpentry in H.S... I built my first house at the ripe old age of 15.. I've be building custom staircases for over 20 yrs . I had a fifth generation stair builder from Czechoslovakia train me.. . I had over 20 years as a carpenter/finish Carpenter before I started custom staircases. It still took me over 4 years to learn them. I now have over 43 yrs under my belt.. although a lot of people call me a master Carpenter / stair builder, I won't consider myself a master Carpenter until the day they bury me. BTW. I have one of those adjustable shoe curved hand planes. I will use it on rare occasion on a curved staircase.. I remember the days before nail guns and speed squares... Also... They're called balusters not spindles. AKA balustrade! Okay that's a rookie mistake. LOL also here in the states and most everywhere else. We used was called a housed stringer. We route out the stringer to accept the treads and risers. I suggest you KZbin some stair builder videos .... If you want to see some real artisan woodworking / craftsmanship. Go to Japan

[@martincraftsman576]

I'm with you kid, I'm 59 and started at 16teen stair and house joinery. Done shop fitting, roofing, shutters, etc,etc. Brick work, plumbing. All part of my apprenticeship. I now own my own joinery yard and do hand made joinery etc no one else can make. I'm a dinosaur but they pay.

[@stairman3151]

@Paul Mykietyn nope..

[@kolpek_fpv8064]

I'm an engineer who has always loved working with his hands. When I was bored growing up, I'd often go out into the garage and find whatever scraps of wood I could get my hands on to facilitate small projects. It's been years since I've had the time or space to work with wood in the ways that I love, but that time and space are finally just around the corner. I'm highly interested in European and Asian woodworking techniques and wish there was a place where I could go learn such skills. While the internet is a vast sea of knowledge, it's just not the same as hands on education with somebody experienced in the craft you wish to learn. I'll be pursuing woodworking on my own, but I love the thought of a more readily available and structured learning space as you two discussed at the end of this video. Thanks for the tour.

[@tony0327]

HOPE YOU SUCCEED THIS COUNTRY REALLY NEEDS SOMETHING LIKE THIS FOR ALL THE TRADES.

[@mikes8218]

This is awesome for all ages. Including myself. Very cool!!

[@TheGaussFan]

In the mid 60's my US grade school started "Industrial arts" shop in 6th grade (age 11) . For two classes per week I learned about woodworking, metal working, and basic electricity. I developed a liking for manufacturing and industrial processes due to this very pleasant exposure. Somehow our country has become so impoverished educationally that extracurriculars that I enjoyed as a kid have been defunded. In the 2015 timeframe, my daughter had No Shop class, no art class, no music class, No PE class, they even eliminated outdoor recess that followed lunch. They were talking about eliminating the library so they wouldn't need to pay a Librarian. I had all of these things in public school. Any extracurriculars for my daughter had to be provided by privately hired services that were out of reach for many parents. We have impoverished the education of the majority of Americans. They are then handed a hammer, and after a few minutes of instruction are building our homes.

[@awax2585]

Americans could have the exact same thing if only they stopped complaining about how bad and expensive everything is while also not wanting to pay taxes and wanting to decrease government while keeping the military industrial complex afloat with huge subsidies. You guys don't understand that we "socialist" europeans don't just pay a lot of taxes, but that we also get our money's worth and that when our governments run something, they will try to do it as efficiently and cheap as possible to not waste taxpayer money while private companies which you all seem to love in the US will do the bare minimum while making you pay the maximum because their top priority is to pocket the difference. You guys need to understand that capitalism is basically the flow of money from society into the pockets of a select few people like Jeff Bezos and that taxes and government don't just exist to rob you, but to limit that flow and/or divert it back to society ...

[@wesleyc1029]

@@awax2585 This is so true! Tragic that Americans more and more each day believe that the answer to everything is to turn it over to private equity. The most tragic example being health care. The saying that we in the US have the greatest healthcare in the world as long as you have enough money to pay for it is actually reality. Medical debt is still the #1 reason people lose their homes. With the ongoing push to privatize administration of all of Medicare, soon we will have have cradle to grave third world "you're on your own" healthcare.

[@goetzfrank4090]

To make you guys feel a bit better please understand that a lot of the European wood architecture was inspired by wood construction in the US. When I was a student in Architecture School (in Germany) in our wood-construction semester we looked at precedents like Sea Ranch. I am happy that you guys picked up on details like the sill panel and the rain screen. We can all learn from each other. Less focus on speed and dollars and more focus on quality, craftsmanship and passion for ones own work….. agreed, all the way!!!

[@mrskwrl]

So glad someone is aware of the lack of education in the States. Would LOVE to have this kind of pride in work in our country. Hopefully ya'll can start something to make some real changes in our society in these coming centuries. Won't be easy, but glad ya'll care.

[@andreas_swissry]

Hi, thanks for the video. I hope it becomes an inspiration to bring the dual education system (apprenticeship) also to the US and other countries of course! It was probably said before, but I got the impression in the video that you missed an important point or I did not understand you correctly. The apprentices (students) do not stay 4 years at this school and then get a contract with a business. They already have an apprenticeship contract with a private company where they are trained on the job. They work there four days a week and one day they go to a governmental vocational college. They also get a small salary from the company which goes up every year of the apprenticeship. The carpenter school you visited, is run by the carpenter's syndicate and financed as you said. The students just do a one or two week special course every year once or twice, to help the companies to get first some basic training and later some special case training that not every company does on a daily basis! Hope, that helps you and others to understand the European apprenticeship that is available for many crafts and trades. About 68% of the girls and 77% of the boys do an apprenticeship in Switzerland while the others go to college and university. Buy the way, during the apprenticeship a special college can be done that allows students to enter engineering school. Or after getting some years of experience in the trade, students can do a master school, that gives them the tools to run a business and the level to train apprentices!

[@kunzworld2309]

I think it helps to explain this education system, which works more or less the same in Germany and Austria. Schools are normally free in these countries. What you looked at was a School commonly referred to as a Berrufsschule. All trades have these no matter what type of trade, it can be electricians, painter, car mechanics or cabinet making. As a student you enter a 3-4 year apprenticeship. You get a salary from the first year on. And you are fully employed,. Each school year you spend a certain amount of time in a school you saw. But you also work in the real world with your experienced colleagues on jobs.

[@mirjameisenegger5835]

This school is not free, the company that sends the student has to pay for it.

[@simonhass1151]

These schools are typicallynfor free! In Germany, Austria and Switzerland it is exactly as described by kunzworld! It is called a dual aporenticeship. Costs are caused for the companies indirectly through the associations. But: here you can rely on craftsmen-once they come to your house doing theor work: it will be done, according to laws of sustainability.

[@simonhass1151]

Teaching personel is payed by the state (taxpayer)

[@4legdfishman]

This is by far, one your best and most informative episodes I've watched from your channel. I always knew that the United States lagged as far as educating craftsmen, carpenters and many other trades and this definitely causes our deficiency to stand out. I'm only a DIY guy, but the reason I watch channels like this is because I'm so obsessed with creating the best home I can possibly create and make every update and remodel stand out. Those kids in this particular school may not even realize how lucky they are. Thanks for sharing!

[@bighands69]

The US does not lag behind. It is a myth that has been circulated. The US for starters does not have a single education system is it based on states and local education. Some states have the trade school option through school and others do not.

[@joergsonnenberger6836]

@@bighands69 The US is lagging behind, don't kid yourself. There have been a few initiatives to bring modern vocational training systems to the USA, but they are limited in scope and more importantly, in acceptance. Going to a trade school is just part of the deal, but your degree or certification must also be understood and valued by a potential employer or a customer.

[@robertlaird6746]

I love that they have trade schools. I learned through the school of hard knocks at the very bottom.

[@Ouwkackemann]

Century-old tradition of craftmanship, still alive.

[@NortheastFrameGang]

Great video....during my travels throughout Europe I've come to realize we're far behind the Le Compagnons(traditional French Carpenters), German Zimmerman, and Sukiya-Daiku(residential Japanese Carpenters) when it comes to carpentry and their methods...what you were looking at is called "L’art du trait", which is a method of combining elevation and plan view drawings that allows the craftsman to create any segment of or whole work piece with complete confidence as to its correctness. In short, those working drawings created by carpenters and masons allows them to build the soaring cathedrals of the Gothic period throughout Europe. L’art du trait is a subset or extension of what we now refer to as stereotomy, which is, essentially an applied geometry that relies on graphic presentation as opposed to formulaic calculation, geometry without calculus. However, the art of stereotomy has become associated almost exclusively with the craft of the stone mason and today it has been displaced by computer based descriptive and projective geometry. The methods of L’art du trait were highly guarded secrets and shared only with those young craftsmen who had been found acceptable to masters of the craft. This knowledge, jealously guarded as it was, gave masons and carpenters tremendous standing within their communities. Architects (acting more as project developers and managers) were completely reliant on the knowledge and skill of the craftsmen. And, this was the case until as late as the middle of the nineteenth century, when architects, engineers began to use descriptive geometry and, in short order, assumed the “mantle of authority” that had been worn by masons and carpenters for centuries. Sadly, due to the power of commercial and governmental interests, master craftsmen were reduced to the rank of mere workmen. But the tradition of l’art du trait is still alive and being learned and practiced by a small group of dedicated carpenters in northern Europe, primarily France and Germany, and now Montreal Canada, thanks to Patrick Moore(google him) and Sim Ayers of Discovery Bay California who is the author of The Holy Grail of Roof Framing Geometry & Trigonometry(a highly suggested read) And, although it has been displaced by modern technology, l’art du trait is considered so important that it has been recognized as part of the “intangible cultural heritage of humanity” by UNESCO......for those of you on IG, follow David Bowman @student_of_stereotomy on Instagram.....as for getting a program started here in the states, I'm all for it....It would be great if you could get together with Ryan Smith of Oswego NY, Dominique "Nick" Ridge of NorCal, Sim Ayers, and put something together....they're all over on JLC Live and IG

[@markspears1167]

Very interesting and informative. Thank you for sharing this information.

[@jumbleblue]

I think it's really great you did this tour and imho it is a testimony to your professionalism and dedication to your profession that you can appreciate the qualities of this swiss education. I think one thing I'd like to point out here (I'm swiss, teacher and educational scientist) is that the quality of the carpenter apprenticeship is reflecting the fundamentally different education system in Switzerland compared to the USA and most other countries. The main difference is that in Switzerland people go Kindergarten 2 years, then school 9 years. After that the system is different. There is the choice between the apprenticeship-way and the academic way. In the apprenticeship-way we have about 250 different professions to chose from. Carpenter is just one of them. Bricklayer, Nurse, Office, Car-mechanic, you name it, each has its own apprenticeship with a minimum of 3 years. Typical is 4 years though. All apprenticeships are usually 3 to 4 days work in a company, 1 day school and a couple of months of intense full time courses in places like the one you visited. Now that is already very different. But what may be even more amazing is: 65% of all people in Switzerland do the apprenticeship. Only 35% do something like "highschool" which will end with a big test and the permission to enter a university. Therefore apprenticeships have a very good standing in Swiss culture. Once you have finished an apprenticeship you can proceed back to school and get your entry into university or other tertiary schools within one or two years and still pursue an academic career. This is true for everyone. All those school as well as the apprenticeships are free. And so are universities. If you pass the tests you can go to any university in Switzerland for free. Also there are two "branches" of Tertiary education in Switzerland. One is the universities, which you need the highschool degree for, or two years of school after apprenticeship. It's the highest level and more on the theoretical and research side. The other branch is not translatable, because it would be translated as "highschool". But its probably more like college? Anyhow. After you do it your are for example an engineer, and to enter it you need only one additional year after an apprenticeship. Like if you are a carpenter you will study maybe wood-engineering or if you are an electrician you will become an electrical-engineer. Or you switch area, which you can. So, I hope that was interesting :)

[@palbergwerx.comcreativedir1338]

What a novel concept - investing in the future of your citizens...

[@simonhass1151]

Exactly like here in Germany.

[@BlueFlash215]

You respectful approach to everything is really showing how strong your personality is. Instead of trying to find flaws and seeing the own way as superior you have an open mind. It's not something to take for granted and not something very many people can say they do. It reminds me of my mechanical engineering degree at a technical university in Germany. I had to draw machinery by hand for over a year before we used CAD tools and learned how to use them. My sister, lived abroad and got a bachelor's degree in economics. She asked if I was able to help her with math problems of her courses. It was at a whole other level and reminded me of our school tests instead of something you'd see at a university. Nevertheless, she is a strong person, got her degree, worked hard and was successful on a national level in the USA. It's a different approach and I never let her know that we basically wouldn't see those problems at university because it doesn't belong to problems one should face at university because of its simplicity. I admire the people in the US. Lately they receive a lot of hate on the internet about things they sometimes can't even change or change in near future. I loved visiting my sister in the States, visiting my niece and getting to know my brother-in-law. We had the best holidays in the Smoky Mountains, went to the coast to enjoy the ocean at other times. A great country that sometimes has its difficulties due to politics. Much love from Germany and the utmost respect for how you approached everything

[@Christex401]

I studied Japanese carpentry.. the skills of a Japanese carpenter is absolutely insane

[@zubiac]

yeah, their joints and the level of detail are out of this world. even for european master carpenters.

[@timellins]

may i ask where did you study japanese carpentry? I was trying to find some curses in japan, but the only one i could find taught in english is a one month course...

[@iamblaineful]

I so wish we had this Public/Private partnership in the US where young people could learn the trades while working a bit and be under contract to work off their learning/education. The skills they are learning benefits the end customer, so it's a win/win/win. Trades at that skill level will increase costs, no doubt, as most framers are OJT trained from entry to better, but the learning stops and it's treated like production factory line work instead of a craft.

[@bobgrant8540]

Canada + other commonwealth countries have a similar 4 year apprenticeship program. So Australians + Canadians sometimes interchange a year. Each year requires 1560 hours on the job before returning for 8 weeks of school. You miss a day and there'd better be a good reason. Like the Swiss we're graded on our shop projects ( marks docked after 1 mil out in 4th year.), And the theory exams require a minimum of 70%. Final year, 4th, has 2 theory exams provincial (state) and a national before your a licensed tradesman. Journeyman who have more than one trade license, depending on the province and their exam results are issued one Red Seal with a master designation. Personally, i think who the apprentice shadows -the journeyman's teaching skills and the scope of the construction projects makes a big difference. But Nick, in my experience if a tradesman doesn't have project supervisor experience they have not reached a master tradesman level. thanks for your show there's always more to learn.

[@chrismacleod9326]

Specifically why would one need Project supervisory experience to be viewed as a master tradesman? Not doubting your statement just curious!

[@johnsmith9903]

You have to be able to run a job on your own from start to completion to be a master. the guilds would have required that in the old,or present days.I believe that would be a requirement of most of the"worshipful company of(name trade)" would have. Many guilds go futher and supposedly also have conduct rules.

[@gy5386]

@@chrismacleod9326 planning, scheduling a job helps one understand what each trades process is, and what can be an impediment for them. I worked with a mason that did his apprenticeship in Austria. They had to learn the process that the electricians, plumbers and hvac use; so as to plan and not block or create problems for them as they install their system.

[@francoisbouvier7861]

I have met and worked with European trades people, ( Ireland/Austria specifically).I'm a red seal carpenter with over 40 years experience. Just my opinion but I think the European system is superior to Canada's. In my four years of trade school I was not aware of anyone failing if they showed up and did their best.

[@101010Meaning]

Unfortunately the quality isn’t present in the Australian building industry, my understanding is that the ‘joinery’ component of carpentry has been deleted. Even very basic stuff like trenching the base plates for wall framing is rarely done.

[@RobertLidstroem]

Sweden here, thank you for visiting Europe! We have 6800 hours of apprenticeship before you are able to call yourself a carpenter. Good for you to open your eyes, come and visit, and see how we do things here. I think the us system is very open to people who just by a hammer and a hardhat and calls themselves carpenters!

[@joelvale3887]

That's what I call quality building.