AG3 Post-Episode Discussion - 'Grave Soaking' & Dr. Michael Brown

Brandon Kimber, Chris Rosebrough, Justin Peters, Steve Kozar, Jesse Westwood, and Richard Moore discuss the reasons for producing the "Grave Soaking" episodes, and how this impacted Dr. Michael Brown's decision to withdraw his participation from American Gospel: Spirit & Fire.
For context, the Grave Soaking episodes will premiere here (10/25, and remain until 10/31/23):
www.watchagtv.com/videos/ag3-...
For more information about Gateway Church's connection to NAR:
protestantcollective.com/wp-c...
For more information about CFNI's History and Connection to Dowie, Lake, Branham, etc:
• The Gordon Lindsay Story

[@gucheddie3204]

I have never heard about grave soaking before until now. Absolutely shocking. I come from an African tribe and speaking to the dead is a thing. BUT it is not Christian. How someone who reads and understands their Bible and still is able to justify this abomination is shocking!!! How is this different from mediums and sorcerers. Geeez! These false teachers have gone too far.

[@HeartAliveToday]

NAR loves their tarot (I mean angel) cards too! Unbelievable but true!

[@mickknight6963]

Exactly! It's no different at all.

[@TheJpep2424]

Bethel and nar does it. Michael brown denies they do it when there are videos of them doing it.

[@lauriecollins7312]

Jesse Westwood-Bottom -Middle BSSM graduate ( 3 yr School) from Bethel and was a Bethel Worship Leader for Bethel and other events. He is 1st hand experience of Bethel teachings - grave soaking -astral travel - Tarot cards-taught- accepted by Bethel. 14 years. American Gospel interviewed him in documentary and the devastating impact his and others lives

[@caroleimani9754]

Bethel uses Tarot cards to "prophesy" over people they meet on the street...They call these cards "Angel Cards" or "Christian Destiny Cards." ++

[@boring_hyla]

Born and raised Pentecostal for 47 years. Praise God for these men for teaching THE WORD as God intended it to be taught! God has opened my eyes and I am currently seeking a church that teaches Scripture alone. If it's a Lutheran Church, so be it!

[@RandomBoxingGuy]

@@boring_hyla praise the Lord! I’m glad you got out… I wished more would do the same. Most I know stick to the charismatic lifestyle because they grew up in it.

[@boring_hyla]

@@RandomBoxingGuy oh yes! I grew up in it and I'm 48 yrs old. I come from a long line of Pentecostal preachers too. I Praise The Lord Jesus that He is calling people away from the lies that are taking them to hell

[@susanneohmes1044]

Oh do I know how the impartation “ feels “. I was told I’m one of God’s eagles, will be able to stop earthquakes! I was grossly uncomfortable and weirded out, felt pressure and obligation… I decided I didn’t want to step out and do this or speak for God when he doesn’t say anything to me. I thank the Lord for opening my eyes to this!

[@caroleimani9754]

In my FORMER WOF Church, the Pastor/s would have an "impartation.thing"---It seemed like every other month...The whole congregation would go forward to experience this...I was blessed because I was in the Church Nursery at this time, and I didn't have to go to those things...I was wondering WHAT they were trying to impart to us...The Bible says: "Lay hands suddenly on NO "MAN." I didn't want them to impart something "weird" to me😅 ... ++

[@charleshill6132]

it's a honor to stand in the truth with all of you truly all of you have been a blessing to me and my family

[@janekrut2799]

I am just so sorry that you had to go through this Mr. Kimber - and yet, it does give another opportunity for people to see the truth of your integrity in research. I appreciate all that you have done and are doing - I also appreciate all on the panel - you are strengthening me with the truth.

[@holtella]

Grateful to Todd White. After sitting through a sermon that was completely packed out with multiple overflow rooms and hearing Todd talk about how he was “without sin”, it started my journey of questioning the movement I was part of.

[@buckiemohawk3643]

If I ever hear a pastor say they don't sin I run.

[@johnpeters9777]

Funny how the Apostle Paul didn't claim that and he wrote 2/3rds of the new testament.

[@johnpeters9777]

Well he did say Be perfect as I am perfect but he qualified that by saying 'I do the things I don't want to do'. He explained that we have a continuous war of the old man and new man. We have a split nature of Good and Evil. We are new creatures in Christ always but the sin we commit is our insane moments we choose the flesh.

[@brandonholling]

Hello! My wife and I was recently transitioned out of the NAR by God’s grace. And looking back, it was due our selfishness why we were attracted to the NAR. Thankfully, our last 2 churches because we recently moved to Austin Tx, are reformed!!! I am a physical therapist for the VA clinic and I serve our veterans. I used to pray for physical healing and never share the gospel when I was a part of the NAR. Now, when I have the opportunity through the Holy Spirit, I will share the gospel. Not that I don’t believe God cannot physically heal today, it is not the foundational priority in what Jesus called us to preach the cross and repentance. I saw the first and second documentary and I shared it with another brother of mine and he is a repentant believer now. Thank God and praise God !!!

[@JuliexSteadman]

..yes i think that is the problem, NAR type teaching attracts our fleshly nature... who doesnt want all the power and wealth now... the enemy knows how to entice us.. but God is faithful, he sees peoples hearts and he comes to their rescue.. But also scarily he hides the truth from those who love unrighteousness... 2 Thess 2:10-12

[@JuliexSteadman]

..but dont throw the baby out with the bath water... the enemy wants to stop us moving in the power of the gifts that are from God so he tries to thwart them... Unfortunately because charismatics have not spoken out enough, the NAR (dominion theology & new age) has got a stronghold inside the movement and main line churches.... When dominion came in through William Branham in the 1950's the AOG denounced it and him, when Bill Johnson became obsessed with Branhams teachings in the 1990's the AOG chucked him out (but they didnt go public like they did the first time). And have a look at John Andrew Collins book Preacher to the white hoods about Branham. Collins came out of the cult 10 years ago and has done loads of research, the depth of Branhams deception is incredible - it would make Ananias and Sapphira blush..

[@olufunkeoluwatoba9322]

Is there a place in the Scriptures where we are asked to preach the Gospel and it is not IMMEDIATELY followed by the commission to heal the Sick ,cast out devil... Can you show me anywhere the Apostles preached the Gospel and healing of the Sick or delivering of the oppressed did not follow

[@davidwireback8621]

I hear the same similar type of response in these groups. I left a NAR church and now I'm in a reform church. I don't think so ! They are so different. And their worship and the way they do things in their services is almost dead compared to many churches today. Where charismatic churches are lively and take time to worship the Lord like David did with all their might.

[@jodimurray6829]

I too was taken out of the Charismatic movement because of the documentary on American Gospel; since 2022, the Holy Spirit has been convicting me and I’ve been in repentance; daily I’m studying God’s word and I’m deeply grateful for all you men for teaching God’s truth, not man’s vain imaginations.

[@melchysomba9690]

Same

[@caroleimani9754]

I think I was taken out of the WOF Church by God... Maybe that sounds fanatical, but that's how I feel❤...I don't what to give glory to "man" for something that the Lord hss done😮

[@caroleimani9754]

🔥🌀❣️🙏🚢🎀🤪🩵💟

[@freddrone4556]

Of course it was God! All would agree. God bless.

[@davidwireback8621]

I hope you study first Corinthians 14. Show me a scripture where it says the gifts of the spirit have ceased. That there no longer needed. These guys will tell you that when the Bible was completed , is that which is perfect and therefore we no longer need the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Really? Why you have probably been in an immature church just like we're seeing in first Corinthians 14. Immature church were earlier in chapter 3 of the same book Paul calls them cardinal and babes who need to drink milk still. Just because some churches are some people abuse gifts of the spirit. doesn't mean that we stop believing in them. Paul was clear when he said do not despise prophesy do not forget speaking in tongues. Desire the gifts. These guys do not believe in

[@laurenlimebrook9828]

Exposing false teachers/preachers is absolutely necessary in these DARK times. The TRUTH is everything.

[@EphSBGGSO]

It’s clear that Dr. Brown wanted to co-opt the narrative and the debate. Good for you Brandon for standing up to him.

[@keith3362]

From what I read Brandon wasn’t honest with Dr Brown about his motives for wanting to include him but hey that’s what Calvinists do.

[@lauriecollins7312]

@@keith3362 You keep using “ Calvinist” as a slur. I’ve found most folks using it are parroting the word without knowing the meaning. Calvin was a Reformer like Luther and many others. Sola Scriptural over Catholic Traditions-teachings. Can you summarize your definition of” Calvinist” for the purposes of context here? Thanks.

[@samuelflores1419]

​@@lauriecollins7312Just like when they comment on Cessationist and know nothing about what we believe.

[@lauriecollins7312]

⁠​⁠@@samuelflores1419 Well Ive been researching the Pharisees- Sadducees and the Pharisees had their own miracle workers and healers. Honi the Circle Marker being one of the most prominent. Ruth Graham had book -taught on successful prayers using Circle. Josephus was a pharisee wrote Book on Jewish history. Pastor Chris did great vid on Pharisees- Sadducees - their origins so fascinating it got me researching. Another nugget why KJV people adamant hold to this version was Wescott- Hort were translation scholars but were involved in Spiritualism- talking to the dead. Necromancy.So Reformers opted for Reformed Believers. Wescott Hort also used Greek Textus vs Reformer used Textus Receptus. Greek Scholars influenced by pagan afterlife myths? The Study by Chris Roseborough was excellent - I still research the info given Encyclopedia Britania was his source on Pharissees My point: NAR-WOF beliefs are same as the Pharisees- the Sadducees were elite rich and very political. Twisting scripture exactly like current NAR-WOF teachers

[@keith3362]

@@lauriecollins7312 I'm not using it like a slur I'm using it to clearly define people who believe the calvinist doctrine that simply isn't in the bible. TULIP, limited atonement (aka Jesus didn't die for everyone - don't say they don't believe that I can show you a Calvinist pastor's video titled 'Jesus did not die for everyone), predestination before you were born to heaven (and really also to hell if not picked before you were born), some even believe babies if not elect will go to hell if they die (not all calvinists will say that cause it's so bad but some do). God has predestined those who believe. 'But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, (John 1:12, NASB) It's not some magic lottery God has based on nothing. I can quote scriptures all throughout the new testament on this. Saved by faith, through grace. Salvation is the gift of God for all those who believe in Jesus.

[@AmericanGospel]

For context, the Grave Soaking episodes will premiere here (10/25, and remain until 10/31/23): www.watchagtv.com/videos/ag3-spirit-fire-preview-grave-soaking-the-house-of-generals

[@chris2790]

They are not available.

[@lauriecollins7312]

Dr Brown is using “plausible deniability” as his defense. Grave soaking is necromancy.

[@theouterplanet]

@@chris2790I decree and declare that those portals of information will manifest.

[@stevenjohnson3883]

2 Timothy 2:15 says “Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.” ESV. And I just want to say ALL of these guys have done that and continue to do that!!!!! Well done gentlemen!!!!!!!!!!

[@Outrider74]

Three Calvinists and two Lutherans, walk into a groupchat… and end up with a great video! Excellent stuff! You guys should consider doing chats like this more often!

[@richardbaranzini8805]

Besides Chris, who is the other Lutheran in the chat?

[@Outrider74]

@@richardbaranzini8805 Steve Kozar (WELS)

[@kenid4144]

@@richardbaranzini8805 Steve Kozar

[@good_olCR]

@@richardbaranzini8805Kozar

[@lauriecollins7312]

@@richardbaranzini8805 Steve. BUT BOTH CHRS - STEVE CAME OUT IF THESE Heretical movements- Chris -Dominionist movement- and Went to Lutheran ( Reformist) Seminary- has Masters Degrees in Biblical Hebrew/Greek - now Lutheran Pastor Steve came out of hyper charismatics movements more NAR- tried several new churches around them - found Lutheran church that taught Scriptures in context. Calvinist - ? Whoever is ID’ing them naming them “ Calvinists” is speculation. Hearsay. Justin Peters has Phd - believe his dissertation might be on WOF-NAR teaching but Im really not sure Calvinist is a slur- like “Uncle Tom” which implies ignorantly a topic they know little about. Uncle Tom Book was based on factual stories of slaves - changing names to keep slaves from being harmed or killed. Real Name was Josiah Benson- He eventually escaped South to Canada becoming a Christian Pastor also -was involved in the Underground Railroad

[@felixrivera1038]

I did not leave the Charismatic movement. I did become more aware. I cannot negate the experiences that have brought me to where I am today, by Gods mercy and grace. Nor will I try to convince people out of it. Just how God did it in my heart to have more reverence to the word, I will lead by example

[@g.h_-heart-_bunny]

Everyone on the panel has said what I was thinking so I'll just say thank you for sharing this and I pray that the Lord continues to give them all wisdom.

[@annabambus6572]

I agree. There is only one word l would change. I would change " them" to us, in your prayer. We just know that God is always in control, and never to lean on our own understanding. God keep you and your family and mine close, and surrounded by His grace always. Amen.

[@mihaivesa7719]

🇫🇷 Hi 👋 I’m French 🇫🇷 and I really enjoyed watching AG 2 Christ Alone merci Brendan et que Dieu vous bénisse tous

[@laurenlimebrook9828]

Listening to this gives stronger meaning to the verse that a little leaven, leavens the whole lump.

[@caroleimani9754]

Is that good or bad?💟

[@laurenlimebrook9828]

Leaven is bad, it symbolizes sin, the world. Churches open their doors to the world in many ways bringing in leaven. A liitle leaven leavens the whole lump meaning it will grow in amount until there is lots of sin, like errors and heresies. @@caroleimani9754

[@Francine1117]

It’s refreshing to hear these men of God! Thank you!!♥️

[@jocelynarcentales]

I’m really sad to see your sadness and disappointment, but what Michael Brown is tryna dodge the truth, it’s as if he refuses to see the truth and it’s right in his face. Only the Lord can open his eyes and May he humble himself to the truth. You are all a blessing ! Praise the Lord for using you all to speak the truth even if you get slandered by it.

[@ichoozjc]

Brown has wrote books addressing the issues with the Charismatic movement. He has been vocal about false teachings within the movement. I'm not understanding how it's his responsibility to voice scrutiny every single time there is a pastor in error or a misunderstanding of scripture. He is not the Pope of charismatics, is he?

[@reformedpresbyterianpulpit6745]

Exactly true

[@chrisburton8079]

Grave, soaking grave, sucking, whatever you want to call it ! Laying on the Graves Of the deceased, trying to somehow carry on with the Anointing/ mantle, that they’ve left behind is necromancy simple as

[@gigiis526]

Yep. Its demonic.

[@AmericanGospel]

We recommend avoiding “necromancy” because they can dismiss by saying, “We’re not communicating with the dead.” Our claim is that they are teaching that you can receive impartation of anointing (mantles) from the dead (locations, relics, etc.).

[@chrisburton8079]

@@AmericanGospel oh I see Rather like when Catholics go to Lourdes ? Etc

[@keith3362]

They are not teaching that at all. If they are show me the video or the teaching. They weee just by the grave of a Christian who was used by God and prayed God let that anointing fall on me. The rest is a Calvinist fit dream. But that is the Calvinist modus operandi. criticize other Christians.

[@chrisburton8079]

@@keith3362 kzbin.info/www/bejne/gqOrgYepbch_otUsi=QDboUzt1Z3c-FRvl

[@alwaysovercomingbear4809]

Agape to all that are sincerely searching for the truth of the gospel. It is an issue of great importance. 👍 ❤🙏

[@kotzting]

It warms my heart to see Justin and Richard on this forum. Let me say this in regards Michael Brown's obfuscation......., many things I found endearing about R. C. Sproul. I was charmed by his brilliance, his humor, his ability to distill complex concepts into layman's language, and his ability to listen to you like you were the only person in the world at that moment! But that which held him in highest esteem in may heart was his bravery....., his personal courage. Indulge me.....I was adopted late in life by my father-in-law, West Point Class of '39, and CIA operative. I came to love the man who charged across a bridge wired with 8 aerial bombs to blow should the Americans attempt a crossing. His shout to attack was lost in the sounds of battle. Facing an 88mm gun, and heavy, concentrated machine gun fire, he dashed across this bridge to signal the assault across the river. Under furious fire, he personally cut the wires and continued on into the town, leading the men who were being cut down on every side. One of his rifle company commanders, Capt. William E. Depuy, later to retire a four star general, recounted, "It was the greatest act of bravery of a single individual that I ever witnessed in the World War 2, bar none." God give us Christian men with bravery like that.

[@LRuth-vl9sy]

Thank you so much for speaking truth. Thank you Steve for being bold in the Holy Spirit and telling the truth about Todd White. Thank you Justin for repeating the importance of seeking God's approval before man's Thank you all!

[@KarinAllison]

Good observation by Justin Peters that Michael Brown and his colleagues get more irritated at having their friends maligned than God being misrepresented. His focus is on man and on THIS life.

[@danielcguy]

Amen

[@keith3362]

What a joke of a comment this is! Dr Brown is concerned about people promoting stuff that the Bible doesn’t say. CALVINISTS are the one maligning the very character of God with limited atonement and all the horrible doctrines of Calvin. And what a coincidence the folks making all these movies are Calvinists. BLIND GUIDES.

[@Psalm91-1]

Michael Brown is showing his colors again by putting a spin on the whole IHOPKC, Mike Bickle scandal. He’s great friends with Mike Bickle

[@Cozy4evr]

Hi all GB good to see you all prayers thank you for what you do exposing the truth in Christ word to mark and avoid false doctrine

[@charleshill6132]

amen

[@rodneyclements6190]

Michael Brown pulled out because he saw the darkness he is involved with coming to light and that he himself would be exposed. I pray that God would send great conviction on Michael and that he might be saved from his own false understandings!!!

[@jjschulz3472]

It was wisdom.

[@JuliexSteadman]

I do not understand Michael Brown - where the hell is he coming from, Im praying for him, I dont want him to lose his witness to the Jews...

[@miryamnae2164]

He’s no witness to the Jews. Not with shilling for the sensual histrionics of sensual, charismatic ‘Jesus.’ Lol…walk on by, Mike.

[@reformedpresbyterianpulpit6745]

Amen

[@hunteroxentine3661]

Since we’ve brought up future AG films… I just want to put it out there, I want to see AG4: Demon Slayers Those guys need to be rebuked

[@HeartAliveToday]

Amen!!

[@katieisk]

Yes 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@RaptureReadyPam]

Truth!

[@Leanna.T]

The absolute arrogance those men have is unbelievable. No humility at all. It sickens me that I have had friends fall for the likes of Greg Locke and his other cronies.

[@HeartAliveToday]

@@Leanna.T Same here!

[@CWRIGHT243]

Brandon. If it means anything at all to you. If it was not for you and people like you. People such as Steve Kosar, Chris Rosbrough, Justin Peters, Jesse Westwood, and many others. My faith would not be where it is. God used a mighty group of men to reach out to the lost. Not only that! He used your experiences to help guide me and others back to a proper path

[@charleshill6132]

I think what jessie is doing is wonderful and points everything to Yeshua and is great

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thank you 🙏🏼

[@audyharrison]

I was in Charasmatic churches for about 30 years, and I'm thankful for those who speak the truth. In the early 2000s, our church was under an Apostle. This "apostle" was over churches that tithed to his ministry. He would occasionally visit our church, and he mentored our pastor. Our church also had a "prophet." I never thought it was Biblical to tithe to him and questioned his title.

[@caroleimani9754]

I think that Biblical "Prophets" ceased after the Apostle John died...People have problems with modern day prophets, because that spiritual category doesn't exist anymore.😮

[@audyharrison]

I agree

[@JuliexSteadman]

I dont know actually. Back in acts you had little 'a' apostles, not the 12 who i will call big A apostles... So i think it is quite reasonable to have churches that restore the 5 fold ministry as long as they are little 'a' apostles. Bill Johnson sees himself as a big A apostle with more power and authority than the original 12... thats the problem.. I the UK we have New Frontiers started by Terry Virgo back in the 1980s, calvanistic but moving in the gifts and restoring the 5 fold ministry... his church has been quite successful and properly taught the gospel...

[@bigtobacco1098]

​@@JuliexSteadmanwhere did this office go for 1800 years ??

[@mikaockerman832]

I am not defending anything, just so you know. But I wonder. Who do you think you should tithe to? I am very concerned about a lot of this false stuff that these men bring up. But I am also concerned about the brokenness of the American church. And I don't think there is any biblical backing for all the church leaders being "pastors" or how many churches are set up.

[@RuslanKD]

Looking forward to you guys releasing all 7.5 hours of content with him. Specifically the round table discussions that were had.

[@tomtemple69]

Ain't no way people are defending Michael Brown 💀

[@CraigBiernbaum]

Amen! All about the uncut round table being released. Also, if we could get it out on KZbin for free, that would be great lol.

[@danielleaknygr]

@ruslanKD looking forward to you releasing an updated review after you actually watch Cessationist 🙏🏾

[@spn2240]

I was wondering the same thing. There are lots of round table discussions and it seems to be sliced up depending on the topic so it is hard to know how much it edited or not given that there would be so much footage, i. e. Dr. Brown, Sam Storms, Remnant Radio etc.

[@tomtemple69]

@@danielleaknygr he wont, these people will never actually consider what the other side says because their experiences reign supreme

[@richardm23]

So glad and honored to be involved in this project and with you faithful brothers in this Q&A. Brandon, your patience and work on this is incredible.

[@EricMaxcy-xv9is]

It's Awesome to see so many GODLEY men in one place!!! Thank you for all your wisdom!!! I watch you always!!! GOD bless you all!!

[@ab-gail]

It seems like Dr. Brown just wants to defend his friends from looking bad.

[@melchysomba9690]

Couldn't have said it better myself

[@TheMik579]

Thank God for your exposing these heresies 🙌

[@a.dlamini]

Really thankful for both Jim and Justin. With love from South Africa.

[@lonecrusaider]

It's good to see godly men talk about these things as most of the time stuff like this is hidden. i believe too much of it is hidden and needs to be brought into the light so it is exposed for what it is.

[@dumpybear8664]

The charismatics... They are very open and everything is fair game except disagreeing with them.

[@keith3362]

Ha! It’s 100 times worse than that with Calvinist cessationists. They are making whole movies against other Christians. Calvinism is poison.

[@alejandrovargas7592]

Anyone with the least amount of rationality should know beyond any doubt, that just the concept is either evil, or mental delusion, or BOTH. How can outright deception like this even happen ? This means that many charasmania churches are heading down a very dangerous path to destruction.

[@nathanaelpezzo1750]

But anyone with the least amount of Biblical knowledge will know beyond any doubt that we should desire, seek, and expect spiritual gifts such as healing, tongues, and prophecy. "Pursue love, yet earnestly desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy." 1 Corinthians 14:1 "So, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues." 1 Corinthians 14:39 "Earnestly desire the greater gifts." 1 Corinthians 12:31 I strongly encourage you to examine the Cessationist position against the Bible, because I assure you it cannot stand against such scrutiny. That's why the major Cessationist leaders deal mainly with the abuses of the Charismatic movement rather than the testimony of Scripture. Listen to a Cessationist defend their position and count how many times they quote Scripture versus how many times they argue from experience, and compare that to the amount of times that Michael Brown or Sam Storms or the guys on Remnant Radio quote Scripture. The difference is literally night and day.

[@timothyhollins6010]

Jesus warned about this in the end times, very Evil.

[@thecrew777]

I think you're right about charismania churches and a path to destruction. The only thing I disagree with is "heading down" as though they are somehow still getting there. They are there. They have been there since at least 1970 when my entire family joined the charismaniacs and dragged me, as a 10 year old child, to it against my will. I left it completely 9 years later when I finally left home!

[@truthlover710]

These guys aren't prophets, but they sure were prophesied about!

[@CraigBiernbaum]

@@nathanaelpezzo1750 Amen!

[@jennesset1102]

Driscoll has connections with Morris. He’s becoming closer and closer to those in NAR. At the very least he claims visions.

[@toolegittoquit_001]

And - like all the rest - he is unqualified to pastor a church

[@lcollins4313]

They morph into new roles, that isn’t true reflecting and repentance. Carl Lynch is onstage staff at Mike Todd’s facade. Hillsong leaders are reinventing themselves. It’s a cult. Here we have True Shepherds of the flock… notice no Gandalf stick props. Sincerity vs deceiving.

[@annebritraaen2237]

Dr. Michel Brown knew what he was doing, and that was to sabotage it as much as he was able to. He might not have watched the former films, but he couldn't have been ignorant of their content.

[@Ephesians-yn8ux]

Hard to believe he was completely oblivious going into the third film, if that’s true he is less intelligent than he presents himself to be. Either that or he’s lying and knew what he was doing.

[@janekrut2799]

Exactly in the same way he is oblivious to Sid Roth!@@Ephesians-yn8ux

[@theouterplanet]

@@Ephesians-yn8uxBrown is the guy who would invite a known serial killer for dinner and brag about how a good family man he is.

[@Savedbygrace22]

@@Ephesians-yn8ux Dr Brown is the same man who claims he’s never watched Benny Hinn’s videos but knows he really loves Jesus and is a brother.🤦‍♀️

[@lauriecollins7312]

@@Savedbygrace22Costi Hinn has firsthand knowledge of Benny Hinn Ministries and has spoken on this well.

[@lauradav2]

❤❤ this is helpful. I appreciate your dedication to bringing this to light. Living in the south means we deal a lot with gaslighting and deflection under the cover of politeness (or unity). We need men who will pull the shade back and reveal the truth for what it is. Seeing the duplicity just turns my stomach.

[@EphSBGGSO]

Chris has a great point about Jesus’ warning about false “anointed ones”. I went to a Phil Wickham concert (wish I hadn’t) and he was constantly talking about how the singers and musicians with him had these “anointings”. Wickham is NAR through and through.

[@caroleimani9754]

Jesus said: "The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because he hath ANOINTED Me.." What is wrong with being anointed to do something? Read the Bible 😮🔥

[@caroleimani9754]

Just because Phil Wickham talked about the musicians being anointed, DOESN'T mean that he's a member of NAR...Jesus talked about being anointed (by God)...Is He a member of NAR? 🌀😜🙏🌷🚢⁉️

[@bettycarmella1127]

This was excellent thank y’all brothers🙏🏽

[@angelaboutwell2761]

Mr. Kimber I haven't had the chance to watch American Gospel , but those on this panel have shown clips of it and from what I've seen and read. They seem very well rounded and informative. I plan to watch them myself once I get another job. I know it cost to make these documentaries and I would like to watch them at some point. I have been watching your KZbin videos they have helped since I was apart of Charismatic and Pentecostal church since I was a little girl. What I've seen and experienced in these churches scares me now. I am grateful for God leading me to Justin Peters Cloud without waters. That led me to the Kozars (Messed Up Church), the Longs (Long for the truth), and Chris Rosebrough (Fighting for the Faith). They have all been very helpful in guiding me away from false teaching. I have been listening to Dawn Hill of Love Sick Scribe as well and it has helped me greatly to walk away from what I thought was true Biblical teaching. I am almost three years departed from the movement. Very grateful that you are doing these documentaries and hope to watch them soon. Keep up the great work. No one expects you to be perfect, your doing this to honor God and lead people to the truth and that is what matters to me and to my family who are very deep in this.

[@gucheddie3204]

Thank you Angela for sharing your story. It will encourage many others who are still scared to leave the darkness and come to the light of the true Gospel.

[@caroleimani9754]

​@@gucheddie3204 Sometimes it's scary to leave something you might have been entrenched in for decades.. I left my FORMER WOF Church about 2 1/2 years ago...I had been a member there for over 36 years and leaving was like pulling teeth, but I had to leave for my SPIRITUAL sanity

[@theresa42213]

What Dr. Brown is doing with the American Gospel series is reminiscent of what Ruslan is doing with the 'Cessationist' film, ...that he never watched. Thanks to Steven Kozar for bringing the creator of the film on to speak about it. :)

[@Obi-Wan81]

Ruslan is a bit of a joke to be honest. His biblical understanding is limited and he cozies up to known 'teachers' whose theology is way off.

[@Marlaina]

​@reformian1558 then he doesn't need a KZbin channel dedicated to what he doesn't know. He's bringing judgement on himself

[@Obi-Wan81]

@@Marlaina But for people like Ruslan - it's a job for him. And he has a following.

[@Savedbygrace22]

@theresa42213 You are so right. That Ruslan video was embarrassing and slanderous. I understand many Christians give him the benefit of the doubt for just being naïve following false teachers but that video proves he is arrogantly complicit! Like Dr Brown he knows just enough Christianity to be dangerous and fool others.

[@keith3362]

No it’s not Dr Brown can run circles around all those guys based on scripture alone. Go watch his debate with Jim Osman where he is the one using scripture way more than the ‘sola scriptura’ Calvinist.

[@chazisflying]

Very grateful for you brothers. Back in 1994 Harold Eberle came to minister at our church, and that’s when the nuclear bomb was detonate it, and it just absolutely destroyed the place. The people that are still part of that congregation, or stranger than ever. They believe all kinds of odd doctrines. I can remember Harold, standing in the middle of the room and saying in relation to love not the world or things in the world he said no that’s wrong. We’re supposed to love the world your neighbors need to know you love them. And then the whole idea that Jesus was not our example, but only our substitute we don’t have to pick up our cross and carry it in that way. I’ve been waiting to hear something about Harold Eberle for sometime now, so thank you.

[@susanflight2626]

Thank you all this is great!

[@brenmanock]

Great panel. Love you guys.

[@LRuth-vl9sy]

The spiritual immaturity in not comprehending the brokenness that always precedes a real commitment to walk with the Lord is shockingly common. Believing myself to be a " good Christian, " it wasn't until going through much tragedy and then in my desperation, actually reading the Bible and understanding that I needed our saviour, Jesus.desperately. I thought I already knew that but when I saw the sin in my life that the world agrees with, I cried bitterly. Feeling both horrified that I sinned against the Lord . But also being given the gift of finally knowing why Jesus died for us. Truly appreciating all He has done and will do for the first time. Now every moment is dedicated to Him and only Him. It's a complete rebirth. Also, when you give someone a way to voice their opinion and they walk away in a huff declaring that your offer is not good enough. Or, when someone tells you you are doing something that they themselves are actually doing. Unfortunately, these are symptoms of narcissism. Thanks again.

[@mirandahanna1326]

Praise God that rhis discussion was done.

[@susanneohmes1044]

Michael brown sat in for Sid Roth’ s program,yes that should tell us something! Good job brothers!

[@theouterplanet]

Sid Rot

[@Eric-jt8yx]

Great video. Thank you

[@sneaksyranger]

It is far more difficult to elevate yourself over the ranks of the "merely saved" if you don't have the mantle of apostle, prophet, or other such great leader.

[@jethrokingsley8903]

As a continuationist, not a leader, not seeking a platform. Someone who loves the teaching of several cessationists whilst holding to a continuationist position based on scriptural reasons. Do you view me as a heretic and outside the Kingdom? I am currently on mission in Japan spreading the wonderful Gospel of Jesus Christ and believing God to confirm His word with signs and wonders. Blessings in Christ. I do hope that we can grow closer and not further apart. It grieves me to see such division.

[@heathobrien356]

Do you believe that signs and wonders are a requirement in spreading the Gospel?

[@Marlaina]

There are many many times on cessationist videos where they refuse to lump every continuationist together with those featured in the video. The continuationists that claim they do are using strawman arguments as a way to view cessationists in a bad light. With that said, there's no way to know if you fall into the heretical category without knowing your beliefs.

[@jessethomas3979]

Nothing you've stated would make you a heretic.

[@jethrokingsley8903]

@@heathobrien356 What I believe to be scriptural is that signs and wonders should accompany those who believe. It's not a sign of being saved, hence why I am not calling cessationists anything but beloved brothers and sisters. It's the gospel that saves, signs and wonders confirm. They are a showing of God's power and of love, when in order and done for the edification of the body as Scripture commands.

[@jethrokingsley8903]

@@Marlaina I'm not making that argument. I have however heard quotes from the Strange Fire conference that strongly implies that anyone who holds to continuationist beliefs is outside of God's Grace. And, according to how I perceived one of the quotes from a brother in the Cessationist movie, I am not a protestant either.

[@johnhoward1964]

Thank you for this. It's very enlightening and at the same time shocking as to what is happening within the church today. Have you ever wondered if this NAR movement is the great falling away? Leading people astray with a false gospel and a false Christ?

[@johnhoward1964]

That their "revival" is actually the gathering of those who will be led astray?

[@wakeupchristians4836]

Thank you so much!! God Bless Y'all

[@alessandracafé9438]

Thank you for this video. Very informative

[@pianomanny1397]

Thank you brothers for all that was said as it "had" to be said. I had listened to Dr.Brown on several occassions and after a while began to question his academics. For someone who touts as he does of his theological training and background certainly his theology is questionable.

[@vivianclaiborne7653]

@piaonmanny I too listened to Dr. Brown...and couldn't believe my ears, when he explained the...''synagogue of Satan'' in Revelation 2:9, and 3:9, which was ridiculous! NOT...only that, he explains many passages different, from some simple ''REGULAR''... everyday ministers...with 20 people in their congregation. It scares me...people all over the ''WORLD''...🌏... 'hears him...''Assault...the Word Of GOD!~then Assert it...EXASPERATING~~ Isaiah 1:18~ ''Come...let us reason together...saith the LORD!~🥰... If he'd do more research...he'll learn that the Jews were allowed to immigrate to Palestine, in the 1800's BRITAIN...allowed 4000...Israeli Jews, to immigrate into Palestine, between 1882-1914!~ BRITAIN...allowed 75,000 Israeli Jews in 1939~then on May 14, 1948...Britain and America helped them to move to Palestine...Completely! After reading about the Attack of the Israelis' ...of America's ''USS LIBERTY''...in the 70's, I was Done! Americas'...Navy believed the attack was made, because they didn't see our flag. Another Flag was raised...it got blown away also...so only a few naval men were left alive! They managed to make it back safely...BUT...LIVED TO TELL THEIR STORY~

[@artpreach]

Good discussion in defending the Gospel, I appreciate godly men addressing very important tenets of the Gospel of Jesus Christ......thanking God in advance for many eyes to be opened and hopefully many salvations as a result of this Discussion!🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@theouterplanet]

Also. Brown was on Paganis show recently. Paganis new book. Secrets of Generational Curses. I mean. How many curses did Christ free us from? All. Or. 45 %?

[@toolegittoquit_001]

I guess when Christ said ‘Tetelestai’, it wasn’t really finished. And the same with Believers and demons

[@heathobrien356]

​@@toolegittoquit_001, how do you know that Jesus meant every issue that plagues mankind, or that the work necessary for the salvation of mankind is done?

[@bigtobacco1098]

​@@heathobrien356ummmmm the Bible ???

[@heathobrien356]

@@bigtobacco1098 , I'm sure. References? Chains of thought?

[@Tonibolognaaintnophony]

Please know, I was a biblical virgin 30 yrs ago. However God works in & through us, I told no one my desire to be a a Levitical priestess to sing for & care for the House of God after 8 yrs of personal Bible reading with Jesus. I was soon asked by the worship leader to sing for Easter 2022 & within a year, I re-learned how to play guitar & keys & singing like I didn't know I could. God did & will continue to provide us with gifts to use for other's to see His glory through us. If we don't use them, we lose them. Thank God for music 🎶 It's about repairing not replacing.

[@judyroe663]

Repentance stands in the way of money making for these profits and teachers

[@HerManyJoysss]

so thankful for this!

[@toolegittoquit_001]

Robert Morris is the bag man for the NAR. Despite his incorrect teachings about the ‘tithe’. (Actually because his teachings inspire congregations to open their pocketbooks …)

[@theouterplanet]

TooLegit in da house!!

[@ScottFrye000111222]

Morris denies Jesus as God while he was on the earth

[@lynnwillis4332]

First time I heard Morris preach, I was able to discern an arrogant spirit

[@charleshill6132]

they are elivating themselves above Yeshua

[@juliemayes2027]

Dr Brown is very good at certain topics which is what makes him such a dangerous man unfortunately but in my opinion he has given up his right to call out anything on this topic now he was given his chance and he basically blew it such blindness of NAR must be spiritual

[@charleshill6132]

that's terrible you all have opened so many people being decieved I support you all 100% I stand in the truth of the perfect word of the Bible where truth is found

[@debbie9369]

My favorite people!!!!

[@murtomedia4217]

John Wimber did the same thing. Went on and on with his stories.

[@bibletruthreformed]

All my favorite people! ❤❤❤🙏🙏😊! I love “The Cessationist Mafia” 😂😂

[@jjschulz3472]

Not something to be celebrated.

[@RandomBoxingGuy]

“First rule of NAR… we don’t talk about NAR”😂

[@kimwolf1708]

The whole evening, the 2 episodes & the discussion (minus the glitches) were excellent. THANK YOU, for your hard work AND for your response to Dr. Brown. Will you be discussing what are regarded as "revivals", such as Asbury?

[@ilsebaunjensen104]

Yes please!! Do that, please!!!

[@samuelflores1419]

I may be wrong but I think FFTF Pastor Chris made a video on Asbury's so-called revival.

[@kimwolf1708]

@samuelflores1419 yes, he did, but I'm interested on their take on it. Plus, about 8 months have gone by & they could trace if there have been any lasting benefits. I'm guessing none. Thank you for your recommendation, though!

[@iitishkina]

Aahh, where did you see the 2 episodes?

[@kimwolf1708]

@@iitishkina when they live streamed it.

[@susanneohmes1044]

I’m listening to all of you often, learning a lot. I used to follow Michael brown on radio . I’m not a scholar, but the Holy Spirit is my teacher! I’ve heard MB speak on lots of these issues you are discussing, and I get “ confusion” from him. To say this right, I think he’s confused, and he could easily confuse a listener, who is not discerning! He waffles when confronted ! Speaks out of both sides of his mouth!

[@tomtemple69]

Yes he obfuscates a lot

[@apriljbuchanan3683]

I can't help but wonder why Dr. Michael Brown is missing the more significant issues and nit-picking over little things that are not even the actual discussion. I don't want to assume his motives, but it's clear he hasn't done his research. I don't know how you deny evidence and reject that NAR is real and simultaneously rely on what my friend told me, as well as defend such things as a sneaky squid spirit (not in this documentary I know of, but it's easy to find information on The Messed Up Church). I am, however, so grateful for the work of Brandon Kimber and all who have been involved in the making of his previous documentaries and now this one. Great work!

[@nathanaelpezzo1750]

It seems woefully arrogant to say of a PhD who has written and published hundreds of well researched and highly praised books, Biblical commentaries, scholarly articles, etc., that he hasn't done his research. Is it not the least bit possible that maybe he has done more research than you? Is it not the least bit possible that he is right and you are wrong? I don't say this to be mean, but only to suggest that maybe there is more to this whole conversation that people like you and I just aren't aware of. (Btw, I'm not sure how much you actually engage with the work of Dr. Michael Brown, but I follow his work quite a bit, and have heard him repeatedly and with utmost clarity condemn NAR teachings and practices)

[@matthewv6210]

@@nathanaelpezzo1750 Your comment is woefully arrogant and ignorant. Why don't you provide evidence of Brown "repeatedly and with utmost clarity condemn NAR teachings and practices". Oh wait, that's not possible because he denies it even exists. You are a liar.

[@impossiblemission33]

@nathanaelpezzo1750 same. Dr. Brown unequivocally rejects NAR.

[@KingJesusLion]

@@nathanaelpezzo1750 Well said! Unfortunately, I see that the primary goal of these ministries are to be “heresy hunters,” and lump in all those who do not parrot their biblical hermeneutical approach and conclusion. Dr Brown is a gift to the body of Christ. I don’t doubt these ministers zeal, but humility exhibited would be so refreshing. I guess they’ve taken the role of the Holy Spirit, knowing every thought, intention and mindset of what charismatic believer in Jesus. Blaspheming against the Holy Spirit is a severe thing

[@tpw7250]

​@KingJesusLion Justin Peters will not sit down with Michael Brown, but bashes him from afar. It doesn't seem like any of these guys will even sit down with the guys from Remnant Radio to discuss the gifts of the Spirit. Why? Because there is no Biblical argument for cessationism.

[@charleshill6132]

I remember Chris doing a clip of Michael Brown praying over a woman pastor and sh started to wwhale and it was not the Holy Spirit it was creepy

[@foundsheep]

Yes, that was here in Australia. Her name is Catherine Ruanala. Query spelling? Totally out of order the whole thing.🙋🏼‍♀️🇦🇺

[@TOlive-fh8sb]

I was raised in the Pentecostal (AoG) movement. Though I have cut ties and changed my theology, I do not completely adhere to a cessationist point of view. However, I am so grateful that these men call out the absurdity and falsehoods of so many that call themselves teachers/preachers, etc… At some point, no matter the camp in which you reside, we have to expose that which is overtly against the scriptures. It makes me so frustrated that Brown refuses to take a stand.

[@martinvandijk1871]

Acts 5:1-16 is amazing. Because of the sin and judgment of Ananias and Sapphire great fear of the Lord came upon the people. Right after that there is the account of so many healings and the people even putting the sick on the streets hoping Peter's shadow would fall on them. How we need both the fear of the Lord and His power. It shook the world and brought His Kingdom in. We need the Living Word.

[@boring_hyla]

One has to wonder how a man like Sid Roth gets a show ... I know, but I'll keep that truth to myself right now. What is done in the dark, God will bring into the Light

[@ericevearitt3317]

Brandon, we got your back, and praying for steadfastness in your Biblical discernment against these charlatans and false teachers.

[@Maxandshe]

Yep, we went to CFNI. Lots of NAR visiting speakers. Couldn't wait to get out!!! So sad.

[@MoscowMood]

Wow, I went to Christ for the Nations in 1998-2000. Totally agree that this is where I was first exposed to the NAR, even though that wasn’t a thing yet.

[@annomario]

I am so proud of Justin he can hold his own against anybody

[@MRFITTA]

For some reason this stream came up on my feed, one look at the panel, and I've got to tune out. I've enough challenges in the world without having this lot further add to the challenge of living for Christ in a depraved sinful world

[@brenmanock]

Love all you guys. You've saved a lot of people from the vortex of these aberrations.

[@cosmichrist]

Watching this before watching the film, thank you for this part.

[@DanielSlaughter-vi5hy]

Of course Pastor Rosbrough is the 1st to chime in. What a OG.

[@scubaoctopus]

Awesome!

[@RandomBoxingGuy]

I do have a lot of respect for Dr Brown’s intellect and passion for people… BUT, It’s very apparent and clear why he pulled out. He saw all of the clips, sermons, interviews, etc exposing many of the people he attempts to defend like Todd White, Kevin Zadai, Mike Bickle, Hinn, Sid Roth, etc… And, then… he didn’t have a legit response without offending most of his friends on the charismatic side.

[@anotherdayatthefeast8100]

Brown runs cover because he is a part of the grift.

[@jjschulz3472]

The opposite is true.

[@eric_sandstrom]

I really believe it is valid to question if Michael Brown is even a Christian. When it comes to discernment. I'm aware that's one of the gifts. But I also think that every true Christian should have a general sense of discernment. The type of discernment that can easily classify SID Roth as one of the people Jesus talked about saying you will know "them" by their fruit speaking of false teachers . Yet Michael Brown holds Sid Roth up as a brother in Christ. I think rather than talking to Michael Brown anymore people should just pray for him. It's mind-boggling after that recent round table discussion

[@kevink9938]

i just finished the first two episodes (after my one year subscription 😊) couldn’t wait until after the round table to come here and express how grateful i am for all a y’all. God Bless Brandon and my favorite cheeto eating discernment bloggers. may your beanbags never leak styrofoam!

[@kevink9938]

@@heyyou9839 there will be several more AG3 episodes and lots of other content. i think you can see what’s available before subscribing.

[@thewestwoodhome]

❤❤❤❤❤

[@bettycarmella1127]

❤️❤️

[@Deacondan240]

Thanks for the commentary and challenges to the P and C camp. There seems to be a disconnect in that space between real Biblical spirituality and experience and a discerning practice. Being in that space , and once not, I think the reaction of ppl against yourselves is the lack of recognition that God acts in people thru the spirit for the body in their churches. A true cessation isn’t really can’t affirm their charismatic brother without doubt and a critical eye, so the dialog is stunted. That said, Brown and Storm are acclaimed scholars and the perfect ppl to step up and address the excesses. WE NEED A REFORMATION IN THE P AND C SPACE THAT ALLOWS HEALING, PROPHECY AND DELIVERANCE MINISTRY, but in HUMILITY, RECOGNIZING SOVEREIGNTY AND GRACE THRU BROKENESS.

[@michelefoz4569]

Dr Brown is kidding himself! He is denying facts! Pastor Chris is right...brown knows his bible, it's almost like he has too many friends he doesn't want to offend. He needs to stand up!! Stand for God's truth...the truth!

[@THATjeffdelaney]

QUESTION: Why do we continue to put Michael Brown on a pedestal, as if he is the Sage of which we bounce our beliefs? The guy was a crucial part of one of the most heretical events ever in the Brownsville Revival.

[@tpw7250]

What event was that?

[@THATjeffdelaney]

@@tpw7250 the Brownsville Revival

[@lauriecollins7312]

@@tpw7250Its easily researched. Clip notes on Brownsville Revival would hard to put in words like William Branham history.

[@tpw7250]

@@lauriecollins7312 What about it in your opinion was heretical?

[@THATjeffdelaney]

@@tpw7250 , they would display all the demonic traits of being “slain in the spirit”, rolling around on the ground, speaking false “tongues”, getting “drunk in the spirit”, running around laughing demonically, etc. Having been in the charismatic cult at the time and witnessing the “laughing revival”, I can assure you that it was not from God, having no scripture basis or precedence in any of it.

[@Paul-Neil]

Thankyou Brothers. This is really helpful

[@angelaboutwell2761]

I have watched this discussion three times now and the part where you read Dr. Michael Brown reasoning for leaving documentary American Gosple and later the fact he didn't bother to watch the other two really angered me. You don't go head on teaching unless you study out what you'll be teaching. He definitely gaslighted everyone involved and to be honest by Dr. Browns own words claims to want to change the direction of the documentary to suite his own beliefs rather than tough it out and actually listen and accept healthy criticism just revealed to me that he has some issues personality wise. He needs Psychiatric care and Biblical counseling. Gaslighting and denial are a form of manipulation and verbal abuse. Both of which are made clear in scripture that teachers and pastors are not to do to those they teach and disciple. From the videos I've watched of the Brownsville Revival while in Bible college and watching some of Dr. Browns Line of Fire makes me question if he should be followed or accept any of his teaching. I understand why Kimber and others wanted him apart of this. I would have welcomed hearing both sides, but what Dr. Brown said spoke volumes about his character and unwillingness to step up and accept others veiw points.

[@christistruth705]

After watching the Roundtable discussion and listening to some of what you guys have said thus far ( 15:00 ), I would say Brown is claiming plausible deniability by not watching Sid Roth’s show, American Gospel, or any of the people in the WoF/NAR movement.

[@annewhittingham8823]

Thank you for standing up for truth