Age of Mytholoy Retold Balance

[@MrHyazint]

I want AoM Retold to be as nice for the next generations als AoM was for me when i was a kid.

[@maperuva8995]

Thank you Boit for making a stand here, you've invested a lot into showing what would be good for Age of Mythology's community and its future as a competitive RTS. Your voice and point of view should be heard. Your content allows everyone, players, future players and viewers, to see how much of a change a community can make for a game. I also do enjoy these types of videos. +1

[@TheDannyc1991]

Id love to see this change log boit

[@timepaintertunebird8160]

They should have a Counsel of Civs like how Magic has a Counsel of Colors where one person represents their civilization and keeps it true to its design aesthetic, representing it in these balance changes in an openly biased way. That way, when a majority of the counsel agrees on something you know it comes from an objective place because all civs perspectives have been considered.

[@swide2750]

definitely want to see more retold content

[@KiluminatiOG]

Jesus Christ, I didn’t realize that was me getting absolutely brutalized for the first minute 😂😂😂

[@minnownow4]

One thing you didn't touch on but I think is quite important is the progression of a player - different gods, units, strategies will all be more or less powerful at different ELO levels, and while its very hard to reach a level like Chess in terms of entertainment across skill gaps, its still worth it, very worth it considering if Reborn goes well there will be both many new and returning players. It also has to avoid ELO traps for a beginning player - if blobbing (for example) is a legit tatic from 1000 to 1500, there is disincentive to learn new tricks or improve, until the player gets stuck in a rut, gets bored and leaves (or complains and gets strats that counter blobbing nerfed, but that's a different story). Lastly, a question - you've often mentioned and shown that Loki mirrors are a coinflip depending on RNG - but with your ideal balance being every game a chance to win, what would be your thoughts on Loki in reborn, if you had the chance to influence the process? With all that said, please give us a change log! That would be awesome to hear your thoughts. I don't know if you ever played much AOE3, but I (feel at least) there are a lot of mechanics and civ designs that work well for 3 that could really benefit AOM reborn if they carry them over.

[@ikosaeder20]

Good point about skill difference. What are you refering to with blobbing? I know some definitions, none apply to AoM. I think a changelog is difficult. Because people will nitpick instead of seeing it as a first draft with a direction in mind.

[@minnownow4]

@@ikosaeder20 blobbing would be the act of having all the military units bunched up to together (In a blob, if you will) and rolling around the map destroying everything in its path. As you can imagine it can be a very effictive strategy, reduced micro requirements, focusing the power into a small point, etc. While it has its uses, if a person relies on it as a strategy too much it leaves them open to direct counters (frost, fire giant, implode) or indirect (raids, base trades). The units may also not be used to best efficiency depending on pathfinding or overkill.

[@IAmDeliverance]

Love your content my man. more on retold and opinions on patches would be cool

[@krisp1871]

Definitely agree about the point about meta shifting akin to League of Legends, which is the undisputed king of esports. The constant meta shifts keep the game fresh and rewards dedicated players willing to adapt, while one trick ponies, who only main one champion(or god in AoM) get punished and don't simply autowin because of their immense skill in only one playstyle.

[@DubmanicGetFlazed]

disagree. if the rules of the game have to be changed every month, if new content has to be added on a schedule to make the game fun, fair and interesting? Thats just a bad game flat out. A bad game.

[@fryboiter6045]

Thank you for opening this discussion! 1) The Autoqueue button HAS TO STAY IN! It turns a clickfest into a decision making game. This has all kinds of cascading effects. It brings the range of players a bit more together. Yes it renders the game a bit less competitive. But AOE IV and SC II are there for anyone who enjoys a clickfest! You still need to know your Civ, God and Timings. You still have to micro your units. In the last three years I got 6 friends to start playing the game (EE version). None of whom would touch it if AQ wasn't possible. I myself would never play for Elo without AQ. 2) I agree that every civ should be able to win any matchup. But I heard between the lines that every Civ should have "a" (= one?) strategy to be viable. Maybe you didn't mean to say that, but thats what I understood. I hope the balance doesn't end up in a fashion that gives us 12x one-trick ponies. A positive example is Zeus with Athena rush, Centaur rush and 2 TC ceasefire at its disposal. A negative would be the good ol' Ra fast heroic.

[@edgarpascualnacher3511]

Yes we wanna know what you think!!

[@juliusm5900]

Totally agree, LOL gives a good example how to balance, nerfing highest vin rates and buffing lowest tier gods. Additionally, highest skill required gods should be revarding, therefore on low skill 1650~1700 level games some gods should have higher win rate, and others should get more wins on higher ~1850 (voobly rates) level games, but... we should not come back to point, where every 1v1 tournament ends up as set vs set, isis vs ra... :) additionally, there should not be such broken matchups as gaya vs loki or loki vs set/ra on every level players.

[@panos684]

League of legends balance should never be an example to follow ever. On the contrary, it should be an example to avoid.

[@juliusm5900]

@@panos684 toxic comunity of LOL should not impact your objective arguments... Which you didnt provide

[@panos684]

@@juliusm5900 Since when do you play lol?

[@TheManaLord]

As long as we have all civilizations and core gameplay small minor tweaks are acceptable. But metas need to settle and mellow out, it should not be patched too quickly or too often

[@alexanderpetkov97]

all I can say is the AoM Retold hype is real

[@Vitor-fb7jj]

Egypt catapults should be built at the Migdol like everyone elses. And I would love to see this change log, boit! Greetings from Brazil 🇧🇷

[@ikosaeder20]

So siege works as a building would only be relevant for siege towers? That's quite inconsistent, because Egypt selling point is to have a separate building. I see more of a problem that when comparing to other long ranged siege units, the Egypt Catapult has a population value of 5 (but costs 4 pop) and is more resource efficient as well.

[@ivangiuseppekhumars1997]

AoM needs more population in DE

[@albal156]

We need to be able to build more houses I would say. Either that or have 3 Settlements as a deault on every map with additionals that you might want to claim. I think higher house population is what they should go for.

[@anomie3299]

rumor is that the dev's starting off point will be the ESO version of aom and working from there because it runs the most smoothly out of all the aom versions. if I had to guess they will probably port that into the aoe3 DE engine. it would be the most straightforward way from their perspective.

[@timepaintertunebird8160]

I would expect a port into the aoe4 engine if anything, it can handle stuff like missing projectiles as we can see from the mangonel, and the fact there is a currently active dev team working on an aoe title in that engine means there is an obvious way to train the retold devs on it.

[@anomie3299]

@@timepaintertunebird8160 if it were as straightforward then I would agree. it really depends on how much they are willing to invest in retold. i would be impressed of they did use the aoe4 engine. the reason why I suspect that the aoe3 DE engine will be the destination is because the original aoe3 was made using aom's engine. so them developing the aoe3 DE engine based on aoe3, which used the aom engine, would be a pretty easy way for them to move another game that used the same engine (aom) into the DE engine. not sure if you've played much aoe4 but there are a lot of other things missing besides missing projectiles. for instance, there's no displacement (except for bumping units). so unlike in aom where a cyclops, minotaur, or hekagigantes can make a unit fly and bounce across the ground, or in aoe3 when an artillery shot can send units flying, aoe4 has no equivalent. when an area of effect shot from great bombards hit a group of units in aoe4, they do not move. the engine does not utilize any sort of physics that causes displacement of units who are hit. aoe4 has a hard grid system built in it as well for building placement (and movement speed). this would be another adjustment for fitting aom into aoe4's engine, since aom doesn't use any sort of gridding. there's more I'm sure but these are what come to mind immediately. now, if they could make all these adjustments to fit aom into aoe4's engine, I'd be enthusiastic, because that would probably mean they would also pay more attention to aom retold, giving it frequent updates and adjustments for as long as aoe4 is relevant (since their team could easily move between the two games, like the point you are making). however, it seems like the devs tend towards what is easiest and most straightforward when it comes to these things. at least that's the impression I've gotten from playing aoe4 and watching them patch and update.

[@ikosaeder20]

​@@anomie3299 Due to the reasons you stated, I would much prefer to see the AoE3 engine than the one from AoE4. Otherwise some of the core elements of AoM would get lost, which means you lose part of the player base. Whatever version they use, balance patches are NOT affected. Whether a unit has 20% or 30% hack armor, this is stated in a separate file and easy to change. However the removal of certain mechanics would absolutely change the game as a whole (which happens when using AoE4).

[@PancakeCS]

Im basically brand new to AOM extended editon (i have 25 hours playing 2v2 3v3 against bots with my friends) and was wondering if you have advice for how I should aim to improve in the game or learn some fundamentals

[@BoitTV]

Watch my fundamentals series! :D

[@NaciónNPC]

the vid is fast motion right?

[@raydoee]

I agree with you boit!!! For if it’s not, then we will not have a good game! The game needs to be balanced to where you can win any game any way! As any god! Situationally of course.!

[@charleswest4627]

If I may ask, what patch is the steam full collection running on? What's the interaction between their multiplayer and voobly?

[@ikosaeder20]

Steam is called Extended Edition, presented secondly at 2:24 as "Extended Edition Patch 2.8". EE has a smaller but still active multiplayer community, especially when Meta-Plays host their tournaments. Voobly has more high level players. A lot of players swap between both to find opponents at any time.

[@emmanuellmiqueletti7029]

Maybe if you habe something like the Chinese garden where you can chose what is your bonuses that's opens fields to so much tunning during the game.

[@deldrimor146]

Let's see that changelog!

[@SP-cp3qu]

want to see the changelog

[@MrHyazint]

Hey Bolt do you play normal 1v1 rankeds in the steam version? Or are you just playing private lobbys.

[@sebastianrojas261]

Mythic units more big, special giant Mountain and colosus more movement of atack for units

[@op-qn4kb]

Wasn't Isis the strongest god at some point?

[@koolaidjerk]

Yeah, but only because people didn't know how to abuse set and game knowledge was low. We were all using shit builds and had no idea what we were doing lol, even at the 1800+ level. There weren't any patches that made her worse, the meta evolved and people realized other gods were better.

[@x0tek]

I think what you've described "all options being situationally viable" simply isn't realistic, even if the devs try their absolute hardest. It's a constant back and forth between allowing the meta to develop versus utilizing patches. If you patch a solution in, the games depths can't be fully realized. However, sometimes things truly are too broken and oppressive (Dear God pre nerf Isis spamming a Titan in like ten minutes) It's okay for tier lists to exist. It's okay for some gods to simply not be as viable. What matters is that at the highest levels there is intricate counterplay with a subjective "enough" gods viable.

[@BoitTV]

The point is that I feel voobly balance patch 5.0 for the vast majority of games, I have a chance to win. So the path of removing the broken shit seems to be to be the best.

[@albal156]

AoE2 has been doing this since it came out. New civs added with broken characteristics/strategies patch to nerf/buff things. Theres also the bigger patches like the one recently where the game has been changed to make infantry a bit more viable now.

[@jerejarvinen625]

Lets see it!

[@foohfreitas6153]

great boit u said everithing

[@amphiprionoccelaris5198]

You don't have winrate statistic in aom?

[@andreiandrone4699]

Basing Retold on Voobly patch for balance, a bit better graphics, especially unit models, along with making China more unique, would surely make the game sell very well at launch. I also believe it would help if the game were to be slowed down a little, everything from movement speed of units, to gather rate for villagers, longer training times, longer build times, etc. I feel like the pacing is a bit too fast atm, and casual players feel a bit stressed out by how fast they must make decisions, or by how hard it is to manage both the military and the economy at the same time. I know that the pro players like it this way, but I do think this change would make the game more successful overall, as it would be more relaxing to play it, and a lot of people would appreciate that.

[@DubmanicGetFlazed]

3 words: "Get good noob" xdd jkjk lol

[@panos684]

Agree 100%. Don't listen to pros and balance the game so there are no autolosses or autowins because u picked a god.

[@swide2750]

imagine 3 minor gods is introduced

[@diego2817]

For balance just don't listen to pros, age IV naval was ruined by beadtyqt, pros has nothing to do with designing a game

[@zhang1750]

I saw same thing in other games.

[@diego2817]

@@zhang1750 is a bad practice for studios to brings "pros" to balance games, they don't play for fun anymore and they simplified because that's how they play,

[@acm_mack7466]

Some good points, however I see the game in the background was used to try and indicate that norse is balanced vs egyptian which is definitely isn’t :P

[@jerejarvinen625]

I think you are trying to read in to something that isn't there. Look at the thumbnail

[@acm_mack7466]

@@jerejarvinen625 I respectfully disagree, but still enjoy the content - I think patch 5.0 is an improvement on what was but further balances are needed, everyone has their bias according to play style, credit to boit for at least admitting it

[@BoitTV]

Nah I just picked a game. No thought went into it haha 😅

[@SP-cp3qu]

n1

[@jogarris9945]

For Retold I'd like to see a paper-rock-scissor meta in the same vein as Starcraft. So, no china and no atlantis, just the orginal 3 civs.

[@strahinja95]

Disagree: atlantis is good addition, china is a terrible one

[@TheManaLord]

What a waste to remove mythologies in age of mythology

[@hausu3163]

thank god ur not a dev

[@nikolajkristensen1803]

hey pardon my ignorance but is "retold" simply just an upcoming addition to the full game?

[@NotFlappy12]

It will probably be similar to the Definitive editions that the Age of Empires games got. Meaning a remake of the game.