Aged Out Podcast 108 || WGI 2024 Finals Recap

[@bradenkilpatrick2635]

Thank you for the kind words. As one of the 6 cymbals in IMPACT that was one of my favorite marching moments I’ve ever had :))

[@agedoutpodcast]

👏👏

[@Iplayquad]

YA BRADEN!

[@sebastianmarsol]

I've really enjoyed your commentary/content this season, thanks for what you guys do and for your support of the activity!

[@agedoutpodcast]

Thanks for being a captivating performer! Looking forward to seeing what you do next! Welcome to the Aged Out side.

[@buckdacious]

U a beast Seb! What a way to ageout!! Good luck In anything u pursue my man

[@alexwaynemiller]

Great stuff! Y'all should continue to expand how much coverage you do on Open and A class. Lots of education to be had by the community just through exposure of those groups. Cheers! 🍻

[@g-shmoney9978]

BEEN WAITING FOR THIS VIDEO!!!!

[@DeeboComing]

I actually couldn't believe that Blackbird came closer to beating Pulse than Art Shaped Box.

[@ARZiehm]

Both are great but Blackbird had much better emotional content; the theme worked on more levels, whereas Art Shaped Box was just big hype

[@DeeboComing]

@@ARZiehm I completely agree.

[@benvieira3895]

THANK YOU for talking about cymbal features. I've hated the trend of turning the cymbals into a weird second bassline. They can provide amazing texture to the ensemble if done right, but yeah as you said, if it's just them playing it ruins all momentum in the show

[@gmiller598]

MCM was the most fun and enjoyable show. X was great and super clean and effective. I personally liked both of them a lot and my 2 favorites in PIW. Loved Ayala, Center Grove and Sparkman in PSW.

[@evan_magill]

Infinity's quads were playing the hardest book out of any quadline this season, by far. Some of those arounds in their feature moments are absolutely ridiculous. There's been a gradual shift in world-class quad drumming away from crossovers and difficult arounds in favor of more single-surface clarity (long rolls on one drum, etc), so it was pretty cool this year to see so many groups with good quadlines. MCM, Broken City, United, Infinity, AQ, so much beef in the writing, loved it

[@thenelsonbruhs722]

Infinity had a very solid quad line this year. I was impressed with them

[@TheUpAndComingNobody]

Show me another quad line that's book is even half as hard as Infinity's. No other quad line can play those ooo eee's

[@garylagstrom3864]

Congrats to both of you! Being off by one for the majority is fantastic!! Hats 🎩 off to you both on that one!

[@c.j._]

Thank you for the support! - Sparkman Vis. Ensemble member

[@alexkim118]

Shoutout Centerville for going from 14th to Prelims to 2nd at Finals

[@agedoutpodcast]

Oh wow. Didn’t even realize that. That’s pretty wild!

[@nickpisarczyk]

So many good points in your conversation about open. I’d implore you guys to check out Meraki’s finals run in comparison to Q2 or Impact’s. I think that Meraki was not as strong musically in finals, and there were some pretty hairy moments in there. I also super agree with the cymbal feature point you guys made about open class cymbal moments. I thought most of the world class cymbal features were not as interestingly integrated as Impact’s was.

[@t1tan145]

I would say what Meraki has was a better example of blend and ensemble sound over every other Open group. Watching them over everyone else was just obvious they would win

[@Iplayquad]

WOO ✌🏻⬇️

[@t1tan145]

I went back and watch all 3 and the biggest difference I saw was design was very much the reason why Meraki won by how much they did. Every T was crossed and I's were dotted vs Q2 and Impact. Also generally Meraki's Pit was definitely the star i did think Q2 had a much better battery minus cymbals which i do have to give for Impact. Meraki is a great example of creating a great Open Class show to a very high level.

[@MrAwesomeBrett]

I love watching you guys and getting a place to have a chat about this very specific avenue of drumming. I marched and played back in High School circa 2004-2008 and I've just been getting back into watching kinda from 2018 onward and it's crazy watching how this thing has evolved. It used to be less visual and abstract and more you march to your spot and ram out a bunch of notes and your show was about like Halo the video game and it was a lot of fun, but that was kinda it - now it's almost this cross between ballet and chops (which the stuff these groups are playing is insane. I thought I was good in 2008 but I couldn't hold a candle to the kids nowadays) - but with the more ballet artistic component to the sport do you guys feel like it's loss some accessibility to translating to a mainstream audience? This year in particular, I can appreciate the talent on display but when it boils down to it 90% of the groups are technically really impressive but the shows come across kinda boring. I love watching someone like Pulse but I was watching the top 5 groups with my partner who has no drumming anything background and she just didn't get it, beyond MCM, she loved that performance. It feels like shows are becoming to abstract and losing sight of general entertainment and growing an audience. I would imagine most of the crowd is parents of the performers or people who play drums - when I feel like there's a world which this could appeal to people who have never touched a drum if there was more consideration towards shows being more accessible - I mean MCM this year is an example of being able to be technically impressive but entertaining. I went University for percussion, so I understand why Pulse and X are at the top of the card but your normal person it just doesn't translate as exciting. I really believe WGI could be so much more than an account on instagram with 100k followers, I think done right this could be a thing that's got a million followers and money running through it and something you'd pay to watch in like a cinema or to actually fill up a proper stadium with if the approach was somewhere between entertaining and artistic. I would assume groups lean more abstract because the judges reward that so why not call a show Grow and make it boring in vague but play the shit out of it with drill and chops, when something like MCM has energy and familiarity that is more publicly appealing. I'm not saying every group needs to be Pop act but if being Bon Iver wins awards lets all chase that becomes the normal you're clipping the widespread appeal of WGI could be. Sorry, this is a long rant from a moderately tipsy guy who has a day off who misses thrashing some drums and wants other people to like this thing but it's kind of embarrassing showing people this at it's current state because it's become hella pretentious and less fun.

[@RVVDont]

04-08. Started watching again in 18? My own clone! 😂

[@rifle2563]

It's kinda a weird position rn because there seems to be groups of higher and higher quality, and wayyyyyyy more groups than there ever has been. I don't forsee WGI being a mainstream thing ever because it is inexplicably tied to education. We are wayyy more connected to scholastic than any professional sport. Our nba equivalent groups perform the same night as high schools. Another thing to consider is the "innovation" people talk about isn't stopping kids from wanting to march because as I said there are more independent groups than ever. The way I see it there are exciting shows and boring shows and that's always been the case. If things were too abstract than WGI would've been pulling insane numbers years ago when it was just drill and chops but they weren't.

[@jacobwichterich936]

You guys forgot about breaking down the scores for the Flomarching Fan Favorite award…..

[@agedoutpodcast]

Lol, I didn’t even know that was a thing.

[@RVVDont]

A shout out to the town north or Avon. Brownsburg’s first finals and they showed they belong in world class. Those kids didn’t look like a recently promoted open class line. I called it that they were going to Best a walled Lake and their hands were the best in that 10-15 range. That’s amazing for their first WGI comp in world class.

[@t1tan145]

It also cause the system is suppose to put like skilled ensembles together. It not like they were an open class group who did an open class show really well but a World class group was was in the wrong classification. Hence RECLASSIFICATION

[@RVVDont]

@@t1tan145 preach it!

[@blackrw42]

My eat crow comment was intended as a fun pun with Blackbirds :)

[@agedoutpodcast]

😂🤣

[@maltlich]

For what it's worth, I worked with the CC2 battery in '21/'22 and now have worked with CCW in '23/'24, and both ensembles have very distinct and separate identities. We holistically teach the same information from a pedagogy standpoint, and the "LFG/Grind" culture permeates throughout both, but we always come at it from the angle that the the only thing that differs between the ensembles is the content. The naming convention I think will come down to personal preference, as I think the argument for calling the groups "ENSEMBLE NAME OPEN" as opposed to "ENSEMBLE NAME 2" can also be made in the opposite direction. Dig the wider coverage y'all gave this season!

[@t1tan145]

You could end up with a POW which stands for Pulse Open World due to how fast they ascended to World Class. Also the benefits of having a second ensemble is huge especially for areas that only have the one or two world ensembles.

[@godking1914]

Atlanta quest rocked cuz.

[@travisopocensky7198]

Appreciate the Q2 love 💜

[@captainkiwi77]

I mean, I understand it jolts momentum… but also this is the ONLY place we can showcase a cymbal line in corps style marching arts since all of like 5 corps still have outdoor cymbal lines. They’re members too and we should be doing better by them for sure, programming their features correctly like y’all said, and providing them the opportunity to showcase there instrument (maybe even do it well enough we inspire some corps to return to the tradition)

[@bethhentges]

MCM was the clear fan favorite, and they brought almost everyone to their feet. None of the other groups had near as many standing.

[@Iplayquad]

Thanks for the kind words ✌🏻⬇️

[@imdome9768]

dyk where to find the vis judges' tapes? I want to know why X got tanked for visuals by R. Hardin.

[@imdome9768]

nevermind you went over it, but I'd still like to hear it

[@garylagstrom3864]

I agree about the cymbals feature! I mean the way the use of cymbals was and yes this will make me seem old but the 80’s and 90’s made sense and now it’s like whaaaattt🤨🤨🤨😏😏😏

[@williammyslajek5196]

thanks for vibing me out hard in the semis lot Evan 🤘

[@agedoutpodcast]

lol which lot was this?

[@Sean_McNulty]

i didnt get to go this year, thanks for this!

[@dabicsta]

Thanks for all the content this season. As far as the squads you spoke to, MCM and their accessible show design was tops, Infinity's cerebral approach a close second. I think my favorite, George Mason, was let down a bit by execution.

[@lyncwolfe3620]

I agree on MCM and Infinity

[@chandlerharris4333]

MCMs show was so good, something about them they always produce awesome stuff

[@IamKymWithaY]

I would gladly Agree with IMPACT cymbals as top cymbal group!! That cymbal feature was super cool!!!

[@ertyboi944]

I love all of the respect for the other classes. However, it would be cool to see you guys discuss scholastic world the way you do with independent world. A lot of the groups have been getting better and better, and the line drawn on what is limited to scholastic is being broken constantly in the maturity of the writing. Would be awesome to see future videos predicting that class or discussing the scholastic season in further depth.

[@t1tan145]

I think the problem is that outside of the top 5 of Scholastic World consistency gets pretty wild. Also while the maturity of the students are getting higher every year you really only see Avon, Ayala, and Chino Hills do things that are really close to the independent groups. (I think what makes the other groups different is what there design is vs clarity.) Honestly clarity from 15- 8 is pretty similar.

[@chrismatthews3800]

Great show, boys!!! I'm not sure how ONE judge could see "X"'s visual package as an 18.9, and the other a 19.7.....that's almost a full ONE Point swing! No other group had as wide a point spread between the two judges within each caption. Perhaps Pulse was better...but that's Not great consistency on the sheets! Oh well!!! Here's to Continued success on your channel!!!

[@MrAcrobeleno]

Yo that dog show hit different though

[@luke_h_percussion]

Again would like to apologize for my statement on x😭. They’re drumline must have just been dirty on prelims day when I saw them. (To be fair it’s backed up by scores? (I’m coping))

[@Yash-oz3em]

UP2 had the best quadline in open class with the hardest book🤧

[@jamesrose2312]

Dudes, MCM shoulda got first based on their run on finals night and the complexity of their show. BCP, Pulse, and RCC have the same damn playbook every year and I’M BORED.

[@t1tan145]

A question I have is that for those a groups you mentioned that are doing the same show. Do they have to change if they are proven successful and also are different from everyone else in PIW? Isn’t the beauty of this activity that you can do any show you want?

[@user-cd8yw9op8x]

Hot take MCM 2024 was GMU 2023 reimagined. Enjoyable as hell. Cool effect moment with the silence and scream. Nothing they did really pushed the activity though. The show design largely felt safe. All that said, I watched all 3 runs. Prelims and semis I sat next to the music judges down low. (2-3 seats to their left) finals I sat directly behind a visual judge. MCM had a great finals run. While it was the best they played all weekend, there was still more to be desired imo. Best MCM show since 2011!

[@garylagstrom3864]

Calls for the Macallan 18! Cheers 🍻

[@agedoutpodcast]

That’s a good pour!

[@the5as1marchingarts]

Put some respect on STRYKKEEESSS NAMEEE LOL

[@agedoutpodcast]

😂

[@DeeboComing]

Sparkman's presence is so crazy honestly. Saw those kids in the lot and they were probably the most physically imposing battery section that I saw all week amongst ALL groups. Those boys are all like 6'1" and up lol. They legit look like a varsity basketball team. Sucks that Jack announced he's leaving there at the end of this school year. 😔😔

[@agedoutpodcast]

I saw that post also. Hopefully they will be able to have a smooth and successful transition, and keep the momentum going.

[@DeeboComing]

@@agedoutpodcast I'm sure they will. He has like 20 people on staff 😂 That battery book he wrote this year was absolutely insaneeee! If the front book was just as dense and was executed as well as the battery book, I think they would have come real close to cracking the top 4.

[@luke_h_percussion]

For Evan’s comments on mcm vs broken city, I think kind of shows my one issue when you guys split hairs. From what I could tell, mcms marimba line was noticeably dirtier than broken city’s and and I think that’s probably what cost them.

[@agedoutpodcast]

Valid point.

[@ironfossil9963]

Lot runs are dangerous to base a judgement on. A big saying in the activity is "it doesn't count until you put it to your feet".

[@mcgrud]

For the algorithm. ✊

[@rbass311]

Surprised you guys didn’t talk about front ensembles doing drill during their shows. You guys think that’s something we need to see more or less of? 🍿

[@agedoutpodcast]

Hahaha waaaaaaaay less! Yea, really only touched on that with Matrix, who’s front ensemble did a lot of drill. Would hate to continuously do those resets….

[@LupitaCortes]

10:57 ✌⬇

[@kietey14]

Kinda late to be asking this, but any chance you guys will talk about how Rhythm X quite literally would have won, but R Hardin scored them a 93.5 (the lowest score) in VISUAL??? which is the only reason they actually didn't get first place? You guys are pretty good with discussing drama, and this might be one worth taking a look at.

[@agedoutpodcast]

We did talk about that in the podcast here. It’s towards the end when we’re discussing the top 5 groups.

[@thedogroof7364]

Lets to Infinity 3💪

[@garylagstrom3864]

The new Fantini lingo: Piss Clean😛😝😜🤪😁

[@TheTroyHagen]

Commenting this before watching. Loved Rhythm X at Finals. Pulse was killing it all season, thought they left a little on the table at the end. I was curious if the prop opening early is what killed X. Overall, they were both amazing.

[@TheTroyHagen]

Post-watch. Glad you guys pointed out that Vis number being the outlier. Didn't even notice that. Pulse design is just on another level man. Galactic Class

[@thenelsonbruhs722]

I honestly have no idea how pulse won. They had a dirty finals run. X was almost pristine at finals

[@TheTroyHagen]

@@thenelsonbruhs722 I mean, yeah, they were. Tied for music, and won Music Effect. The visual number putting them in 4th is what called it.

[@scottyt5918]

Ye Olde Charles Towne Percussion

[@UCDaviddci08]

For the Algorithm

[@t1tan145]

To break the whole Pulse/POW system a bit. When POW was created there was only Pulse and RCC and the need for another ensemble was there. Since if you didn’t make the for mentioned ensembles you weren’t marching unless you joined a random A or Open group. So Pulse Open was created. Their very first season they ended up 3rd at WGI. The next year mid season they were reclassified to World. (At one show an announcer called them Pulse Open World and it just stuck hence the name POW.) Both Pulse and POW have their auditions together. Since 2018 the ensembles are becoming more separate with different staff and resources. Obviously sharing Box Six and other elements. If Pulse is the culmination of a basically perfect drumline show. POW is the bouncer for WGI finals. POW has solid design and has only missed finals once (due to a penalty) but there design is so strong compared to other groups not in the top 5. However because they are the “B” group they aren’t the best of the best like other ensembles in finals. Which makes POW very unique in the fact in any other part of the country they would be the best ensemble there but in SoCal they are destined to be 4th. (This is isn’t a jab at other ensembles since people are figuring out the design aspect more. It was just especially not too long ago POW would beat you because the design was better and they played pretty good. If you think drum corps terms POW is basically going against Top 5 Drum corps members

[@Brockstar]

Have to be honest, I simply don't understand the fascination with 2024 Pulse. The pros: they're clean. The cons: the show's integral thread is weak. Comparatively, RCC put out a ferociously musical show with extreme complexity and dare I say a profound overall theme: the arc of life. Shame on you for shaming "morphine drip" -- I get you guys are young, but you do realize this is the way we, and many of our pets, go? For humans it's hospice. In regard to the Finals performance, it's difficult for me to say much based on the Flo videos on KZbin. Pulse certainly was clean. RCC, it was less clear how clean they were as the mics seem to be so distant that discernment is sketchy at best. In lot videos for Finals, both were clean. I admire the difficulty of what both pits played, but there's zero doubt what RCC pulled off was more challenging and musically (and thematically) cohesive. To me this is like comparing a band that put out a collection of songs to an artist that put out a masterful album.

[@t1tan145]

It was very much after Pulse performed everyone knew Pulse had won. Regardless of what scores said. I think people forget that Pulse isn't JUST clean but there design is proven to be the strongest in the activity. RCC is super fun but they definitely weren't the cleanest inside. You can choose to poke holes into the show but at the end of the day no one beat Pulse.

[@Brockstar]

@@t1tan145 No dispute as to who won. Just dispute as to those results. You site cleanliness, and based on what I'm able to observe via KZbins, it's difficult to say because neither recording provides a clean sound, however I do agree, based on the videos, Pulse sounded cleaner. BUT, back to my primary point, I think RCC's show was more outstanding and interesting musically -- and respectably clean. I'll take that!

[@t1tan145]

@@Brockstar You’re free to like whoever but as someone who was watching in person the videos are deceiving.

[@agedoutpodcast]

I agree, Pulse and X were definitely considerably cleaner than RCC, both sectionally and as an ensemble, watching them all back to back inside.

[@Brockstar]

@@t1tan145 How so? I've been in the first 10 rows of DCI Finals for the past several years close to the centerline, so I think I get what you're saying but....?

[@RVVDont]

Make cymbals cymbals again and not shitty bass drums. In my day you played normal split parts you could read and cool visuals.

[@cuttingham_1232]

Have you guys seen Orange County Independent (OCI)? If so, what are your thoughts on them?

[@jvblu]

The 3 point gap in PIO was absolutely bewildering of a difference, I don't really know what to say about it. I also entirely agree that the best use for the cymbal line is for all the unique textures they can bring to the ensemble, and the appropriate way to give them a feature is when they have accompaniment from the front ensemble at a "lower energy" moment in the context of the show itself that allows for them to speak without putting a halt on the momentum or leaving the venue super "empty" with practically no reason. And then I do agree that naming additional ensembles in an organization using numbers makes it feel like they're "lesser" by nature. I share the opinion that Matrix did it right by using "Matrix Open" instead of "Matrix 2" even if they went ahead and did M3 after that. Those ensembles shouldn't be treated like they're less of an ensemble just because they aren't "the first one" and I say this knowing that the Atlanta Quest organization chose "Q2" for the rhyme between Q and 2 on top of the letter Q being their flagship icon in media. Beyond that, we've joked that a "Q3" should just be called "Q'bed" or something nodding at it being the 3rd group and the first syllable in "Cubed" is the same as the letter Q.

[@apengilly16]

I won’t really say much. But as a staff member of one these “multiple ensemble” organizations. You are not considering a great many details and factors for naming things. And our performers do not feel like the lesser or lower priority. I ask you to consider there is a great deal of things that go into this that you don’t get to see from the outside.

[@jvblu]

@@apengilly16 I've been in both ensembles for an organization that has two ensembles and have overheard many things from members in my time spent in both, so I would appreciate it if I wasn't immediately shot down as being "from the outside". I understand it's going to be different everywhere, but there is a psychological factor to having "2" attached to a name that can't be discarded easily. The only case I can recall where not using a number backfired was for Pulse when Pulse Open got reclassified, then they renamed to POW and carried on.

[@t1tan145]

@@jvblu POW stands for Pulse Open World xdd

[@Mok_lpz]

Thank you for talking about Cymbal Features. Some solid talking points that should be addressed before coming up with features. Coming from a cymbal dude👀🫡