Agent Milton - A Killer Behind A Badge

[@CynicGTA]

Just wanted to talk about Milton today I guess…

[@Gabicro5]

Nice

[@Marianne-Bachmeier-Extremist]

I liked it.

[@patriot17764th]

Never thought about it like this.

[@tupa12]

I don’t think Milton is that evil lol…. I mean, we literally murder like 3000 people by the end of the game 😂

[@shariqhaider1225]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/oamwqqGdqK6bmNEsi=cFS7OsmhKW3cjVhv

[@yerknvl]

I can’t lie, “you people venerate savagery and you will DIE, savagely” is a hard ass quote

[@koolandblue]

And it was true- no matter what ending you choose, Arthur spends his last moments in a savage fight with Micah and dies a bloody, violent death.

[@GiluGian]

​@@koolandblueyes and no, Arthur with high honor is the only one that doesn't die savagely, all the others members (the gunslingers) and even Milton and Ross also die savagely Arthur was the only one who get a chance to understand that and avoid it in his last seconds, but only if he deserved it (High honor)

[@GiluGian]

@ClaytonTheCracker His last breath was in peace and fulfilling his only wish of how he wanted to die, watching the sunrise remembering all the good times they had together, that is more than enough for a life like the one he had and no matter if he was beaten to death, he won by knowing John was safe. Micah gained nothing from beating Arthur, other than damning himself because Dutch turned away from him and that John was going to avenge Arthur sooner or later.

[@rkhale02]

it also shows in my opinion that milton cares more about results than actual justice. He sees everyone in the van der linde camp as below him like a bug to be stamped out.

[@vitorribeiro796]

​@@GiluGian No phylosophy here Bro, Arthur die in SHIT

[@anthonyf616]

Killing Hosea was an attempt to bring Dutch down back to earth. Instead it only made him spiral further

[@garrettvance4686]

I see it as now if a a scare tactic than anything beneficent in any way.

[@titustavares335]

Milton killed Hosea because he wanted to spite Dutch. Imagine if he captured Javier, or Bill, or even Arthur. If that were the case, he’d just be shooting an outlaw like they shoot him. But that’s not what happened. Milton shot a helpless old man dead in the street and watched his family cry out in agony as they watched his bleeding corpse stop twitching. There’s your deal Dutch

[@isadacsouza5760]

@@titustavares335 We saw what happened with John when the Pinkertons took Van Der Linde gang members alive. He got broken out of Sisika, a literal secluded ISLAND that is heavily armed with literal CANONS! Milton was honestly right to collect the "Dead or Alive" bounty "Dead," on Hosea, especially with how smart Hosea is.

[@dennys1334]

​​​@@titustavares335It also shows that there simply will not be any place for outlaws and that the "civilized" world is here to take everything and not give an inch, also shown by the army repeatedly breaking and disrespecting any deal they did with the indians, taking their lands anyways. Dutch hit an unpassable wall and while the rest of the gang accepts it and wants to leave it and move on, he hopelessly tries to keep fighting it and further descends into madness and like Rainfalls meets his demise.

[@LMG4Records]

@@dennys1334it’s interesting to see the parallels drawn between the outlaws and the Indians by the US Army in this game isn’t it? Because the truth is there really are no parallels. The Indians just want to be left alone so they can live their lives and the outlaws want to keep taking and taking. If anything, the government treats the Indians worse. Sad.

[@poobusgaming6730]

Milton at first gave the gang chance after chance to just give up Dutch and leave, but from the bank job to his death he seemed more and more sadistic and evil. I imagine he spiraled down as the story went on a bit like Dutch did, due to growing pressure from Cornwall and the gang continuing to escape him. We just didn't see as much of it because it was off screen.

[@makb_the_striker]

You miss one of the main points of the RDR2 storyline. Milton is an employee of a private company, not a government\state official. There's not any legal difference between him and a sales representative offering a new dishwasher. He couldn't give them any chance, it was a bluff. He just wanted to make his operation report better and gain some bonus. He was sadistic from the very beginning. Just as van der Linde. It's one of the most important parts of the RDR2 story.

[@NoFlu]

​@@makb_the_strikerwhen we kill Cornwall, Milton literally says he did everything he can while still playing inside the law. He did the best he can while being a private investigator and giving yourself up on your own, even to a P.I. as opposed to a cop, usually helps with your charges. Now Milton was a sadist yea, but people forget (normally because we are playing them) the gang is a bunch of thieving, robbing murderers, literally blowing up a bomb inside Sait Denis to rob a bank....

[@makb_the_striker]

​@@NoFlu and he was lying, obviously. A private person could legally fire at other people intentionally only in self-defense. So when Milton killed Hosea during a bank robbery, he committed m*rder. Attack on the gang layer in Fleeting Joy mission contains mass m*rder attempt (via organized group) and ars0n. Both were punished with death penalties in most states in 1899. So Milton is the same outlaw as Dutch van der Linde but is protected by the corrupt government. It's one of the main points of the game's story.

[@NoFlu]

@carrysource5101 yep, and durring robberies like the one in Valentine, I doubt all of those guys chasing us were cops. Its an impromptu posse by the townspeople (i.e. famers, workers and all) because we are stealing their money. I mean stealing from people like Cornwall is one thing, but robbing the money from a small town is another. Now its funny gameplay wise and all, but I think people forget the gang is also not the good guy (in most cases)

[@something4179]

Exactly. It is even mentioned in the game, i do not remember by why character but there was a line of the sort: "You do not hire a saint to deal with murderers.​" @carrysource5101

[@cableyoutuber]

Ross saw what happened to Milton when he showed a little reason, and that led to him being more sadistic, to the point of killing the man he promised freedom for him and his family.

[@dathunderman4]

We don’t actually know if Milton would’ve honored the deal tho

[@cableyoutuber]

@@dathunderman4 nevertheless, Milton gave many chances for the gang to disband. He walked into camp only with Ross, when he could’ve just sent an army into destroy them.

[@beelze_sama9905]

​@dathunderman4 well it's easier to just bring a whole army to them than let them scatter and try to hunt them later one by one so i think he probably would have honored the deal , but maybe he would have gone after the most prominent members after that such as arthur and hosea

[@Re-Bourne]

Ross was just ruthless in general dude had his gun poined at Arthur when they were talking for no reason than laughs and talks to the jack in a sadistic way.

[@0StarGirl5000]

I love Milton as an antagonist in the game, because he's a great foil to Dutch. Dutch presents himself as a messiah and the figurehead of an idea, the idea of freedom, loyalty and the "noble outlaw" life. When Dutch takes drastic measures he justifies it as being necessary for a greater cause. Over the course of the game, we see Dutch's facade unravel and degrade to a raw fight for survival, where he's shows he's willing to just use and then throw away his friends and allies, leaving them behind, if it means he gets to keep living. All this belies the words he spoke at Davy's funeral in the first chapter. Part of what makes Dutch seem delusional and irrational late in the game, is because Dutch can't accept his own hypocrisy. He goes mad trying to continue to see himself as the noble outlaw hero, even as his actions abandon the principles he claimed to represent and taught to his followers. He starts casting everyone else, even his best friends, as the villains for being against him, because Dutch will never accept that he could be anything but the noble hero, no matter how far he goes. Milton similarly presents himself as the representative of a greater cause and a supreme ideal. For Milton it's the Law and American Civilization. He claims to be a righteous representative of a noble government and therefore everything he does, no matter how despicable, must be heroic, for he is more than just a man. In order to maintain this heroic view of himself, he dehumanizes and degrades the outlaws, because "killing or torturing people is wrong" but "Killing or torturing filthy outlaws is justice, and necessary for the progress of civilization in the west." Just like Dutch's facade of the "noble outlaw" degrades throughout the game, Milton's facade as a righteous agent of justice also degrades and unravels. He hates Dutch and also Arthur because their nobility and loyalty to their people undermines the identity and philosophy Milton uses to paint himself as the hero. And there continued resistance forces him to take measures that contradict his constructed image of himself. Early in the game Milton's offers of deals, and gives speeches of supposed "mercy." His language and sentiments are pretty similar to Dutch's many speeches about how he's gladly die for his people (in Milton's for his country) and that he is going to lead all who listen to him into a better world. Milton makes those offers because he's acting the hero and it's what the hero does. But just like Dutch never really had the principles and courage to lay down his life for his friends, Milton never was righteous nor civilized and only ever wanted to dominate and crush the spirits of those that opposed him and his idea of how the world should be.

[@Z4ven]

I ain’t readin all that🔥🔥🔥

[@mangolover1899]

illiteracy is bliss

[@Cbart23]

Tldr.

[@Samsonig]

TL:DR: MILTION IS THE SAME AS DUTCH JUST THE OPPOSITE SIDE

[@rhysphillips2483]

This is honestly a brilliant way to describe the descent of these two characters, and it explains why around chapter 4, you start to see Dutch losing his mind and becoming the savage dog Milton tells you he is, they’re both corrupting each other throughout the story, and Milton is as much to blame for Dutch’s descent into madness as Micah. Dutch and Milton are the principles of America, Dutch is liberty manifest, and Milton is Justice. The corruption of those two signify the corruption of American values, and what too much of either can bring, too much of either brings savagery, liberty brings about rebellion against the government, and justice brings about atrocities in its name. The writing of RDR2, IMO, serves to show that the more noble the cause, the easier it is to lose sight of.

[@lucasludwig2347]

I was disappointed Milton didn't get more screentime. He was a easily a much better antagonist than Micah. And while he wasn't perfect, he was certainly justified in hunting down what was essentialy a terrorrist, mass murderous cult. It could be argued that Milton was a necessary evil.

[@anon2427]

I don’t even think Milton was evil man

[@gmdtech8008]

@@anon2427yeah ig and most likely all of van der lind gang members had a bounty on their head so killing Hosea wasn’t surprising at all

[@Lilmsjaymo]

Funny enough the Pinkertons can be classified as a mass murdering gang also. A vigilante cult

[@Mr.Capitalism]

Milton was a reasonable man and anti villain at best but micah is just pure evil

[@pelucheCR7]

Micah was more fleshed out and a better antagonist

[@cream_pieluver]

I mean milton is honestly the most reasonable guy in the game The moment he walked inside the camp he didn't show hostility or anything bad Or when he saw Arthur fishing He literally could've shot him and kidnapped jack sure that would be savagely but sure could be a impact on the gang Or that Mac calendar I mean he could have lied about him and didn't say he did it All I'm saying Is he is pretty realistic and honest Sure we hate him because we have to fight him....but we are criminals with alot of blood on our hands

[@weezerbeetle]

You actually have a point

[@Justinb1TV]

Great analysis I also agree my hatred for Milton didn’t really come in til he killed Hosea but like you stated by that point we had already done so much while he tried to be reasonable the bank heist was the last straw fr bc that’s when things really got serious

[@aidonus]

yeah but he did open fire on a cabin that he knew housed women and children

[@Medina5Arts]

​@aidonus Historically the Pinkertons firebombed Jesse James's mom's house to agitated the outlaw, so their brutality isn't far from the truth.

[@theoutsiderjess1869]

In a way I think Milton in his own way wanted to help them while also showing them who is in charge. However he isn't afraid to tell them the truth as well

[@mercury_0080]

The scene where Milton talks to the gang at Clemens Point is pretty thematically on point for another reason. John calls himself Rip Van Winkle, a character from a short story by Washington Irving about a Dutch-American man who falls asleep in colonial America and wakes up after the war for independence. For a game all about how time is passing the outlaw gangs by, it’s a pretty potent allusion, and one that is kind of surprising for John to know enough about to joke.

[@FlymanMS]

I like to imagine that after that encounter the convo between Milton and ross went like this Milton: Mr. Ross, get me all there is on this Van Winkle feller Ross: Uh sir, I think it was... Milton: Do not question my orders, follow them!

[@jeremywomack7090]

I don't think it's that surprising. Everybody but Bill is very well read for the time period. That's part of how Dutch controls them and makes them feel superior to the masses.

[@FlymanMS]

When you think about it, Milton played it fairly straight. He as a "lawman for hire" gave them the warnings and then resorted to brute force, all by the book. Ross' approach was way more subtle and twisted, taking a whole family hostage and making John doing his dirty work.

[@Revix_AE]

He was too soft with The Van Der Linde gang he could have killed them all in chapter 3

[@markmagician2471]

Milton only wanted Dutch

[@terrybogard8383]

He loved messing with his prey. Not soft but sadistic

[@StefanWinchester]

Which explains why Ross is not soft on john in rdr 1

[@wfeminist]

Yup. Had it be Ross instead of Milton the gang would've all been arrested or killed. Milton was a saint compared to Ross.

[@joshuamartinez7409]

@@StefanWinchesterThat fucker still double crossed John. John wanted genuine change and was willing to take down his former members to get his family back, even if those were his orders. Milton was just doing his job while Ross wanted self satisfaction and Archer was decent, he respected John. That's why he never participated in the shootout of John.

[@Icy_Princess]

I don't hate Milton. I also don't think he is "evil" as many people always say. He has given the gang plenty and plenty of chances to run away if they'd just abandon Dutch, that silver tongued liar as he likes to call him. Initially he only wanted Dutch and I truly do believe he'd have spared everybody else if Dutch turned himself in, or if the gang handed him over. Let's not forget this one thing....the gang is a bunch of criminals and killers. It's difficult to remember that sometimes because we play as them and grow a liking towards our little family, but that doesn't change the fact they are murdering thieves and criminals. Some worse than others, but still. Milton grew very impatient when Dutch/the gang continued to rob and murder, and only that's when he kinda snapped and shot Hosea in cold blood. I think it was to send a message, that he really means business and that all of them *will* die because of Dutches actions.

[@JackycakesV2]

How does murdering an unarmed elderly man and kidnapping an unarmed woman in false charges not equal evil? And his taunting and hatred of the gang. He’s insane

[@skyranger1366]

Hosea was apprehended trying to help Rob a bank. Abigail was doing the same thing. While brutal Milton's actions were justified.

[@makb_the_striker]

He couldn't give any chances. He was not a government official, just an employee of a private company. He is a criminal, s*dist anf psychopath, the same as Dutch. He committed tons of felonies during the storyline. The only difference was the side he and Dutch picked.

[@makb_the_striker]

@@skyranger1366 lol, an employee of a private company murdered an unarmed person, without any trial, and you think it could be justified) Nice) So, let's make it clear: if a McD*nald's manager m*rders a McD*nald's cashier because he thinks that cashier stealing from the restaurant, is he justified?

[@stormichow5325]

​The entire thing about Milton is that he's a reverse/foil of Dutch. Dutch cloaks his atrocities in the goodness of his anti-government philosophy, whereas Milton does the same but with pro-government philosophy. As Dutch's principles start to decay and his true nature is revealed, Milton's is revealed, too. When Abigail was being held captive, Milton didn't help his men; he hid in an attempt to put down Arthur. It was clearly personal to him at that point. But, just as I think the same for Dutch, I don't think Milton ever became "worse"; he has always held extreme contempt for outlaws, based on the fact that he murdered Mac and even boasted about doing so. Milton and Dutch are the same kind of evil, just one is on the side of red, and the other on the side of blue.

[@bostontowny4life744]

I don't hate Milton. He's doing his job. He did it pretty honorably compared to Agent Ross in RDR1. Agent Ross I hate, he's a scumbag. Milton though is just a young, ambitious pinkerton that wanted to rise in his career. I didn't really like how he took his job so personally though. Like he was personally insulted by Dutch and his boys.

[@sepponam]

he is kinda like steve haines in gta5

[@stayso4py951]

I mean wouldn’t you feel a little spat on, if like hundreds of your men have been killed by this man and his gang.

[@UncleTonyK]

I think that it's important to clarify that Milton is not a "lawman." Though, the Pinkerton badge gives the impression of being a government official (and several governments contracted their services). At the time of this story, the Pinkertons were a private security agency hired by Cornwall for the primary reason of protecting his trains and railways. Milton mentioned the territorial and federal governments because railways weren't federalized back then. Governments contracted with railroad magnates (like Cornwall) to ship mail, people, and goods across the country. To be in the service of Cornwall is also to be in the service of the governments that are under contract with Cornwall. By attacking Cornwall's trains, the gang is both directly and indirectly attacking the territorial and federal governments. This is why it is important for Milton to appear to act within the confines of the law. Had Milton been able to capture Dutch, he likely would have escorted him to a W. Elizabeth jail. After which, (considering the bounties) the Pinkerton Agency could have potentially collected payment from Cornwall, West Elizabeth, and maybe even good old Uncle Sam.

[@thekingmeez1203]

Milton really could have lied and just sent lawmen right after the conversation but he chose to warn them he didn’t have to do that he could’ve went in guns blazing like Ross did I honestly think he would’ve let John go had he lived Ross betrayed John also when Milton says they killed those “savages” he was talking about the indians

[@comanderkitten7755]

I think that Ross learnt to take John out directly after learning from Milton that you cannot negotiate with criminals

[@Maddog-xc2zv]

He didn't because he feels superior to all other and it makes him feel the gaze of control even more. Is pure even, no more nor less than Dutch, don't fall in the mistake to patronize a man who uses the law for his own mean and glory. narcissi, both him and Dutch.

[@DirtyDev]

@@Maddog-xc2zvyou’re confusing Milton for Ross, Milton never strived for fame he only wants a more civil society (And presumably to do a good job) he’s never indicated that he wants glory so any accusation of such is just headcanon

[@Maddog-xc2zv]

@@DirtyDev So you're so naif you believe Milton's speech. You're in the right path to believe on those of Dutch too. As the only difference between them is in the phylosofic rethorics and a badge. If interested, get more informed about people, there's a good deal of behavioral sciences that could help you to understand a bit better beyond the surface. Cheers.

[@SkinBoy04]

@@Maddog-xc2zvso many misspelled words.

[@mikedroz2301]

I forget his name, but there’s a retired mob guy on KZbin that was talking about how a lot of FBI surveillance people would make themselves known. “Hi, I’m Agent Johnson, this is Agent Marco, and we’ve been assigned to follow you. We’ll be right over here if you want to get out of the life.” And they’d do it any time they got assigned to a new target. Not everybody wants to go out in a hailstorm of bullets. I can only assume that this is exactly what Milton and Ross are doing in this game.

[@arkhamknight3104]

“5000$ for me? Can I turn myself in?”-arthur Morgan 1899

[@Urge-To-Burn]

Andrew Milton was a very patient man. He was only doing his job and he did it good within the confines of the law; he never once actually killed any members of the gang unless there was an actual crime being committed. (unlike Ross) Milton’s problem was that he hesitated too much, and it cost the lives of many of his colleagues and friends. He stopped hesitating and killed Hosea as a message to Dutch, and became much more persistent and aggressive. Despite his need to change, he never had the heart to actually outright kill someone unless he felt they truly deserved it. He believed that the members of the van der linde gang were being manipulated by Dutch, and he wanted to give them chances to leave while they still could. In the end he lost his life because he hesitated. Despite knowing that Arthur was the most dangerous man in the country that could kill him faster than he could blink, he still never actually viewed him as a genuine bad person. Just a man following the wrong star. He knew that Arthur was a good person because he’d met people that Arthur helped. Milton was a good guy following the rules in a world where the rules don’t work anymore, and people will find their ways around the rules for their own personal goals and needs. Milton was different.

[@Micheal1075]

Excellent take here

[@Bømær]

I agree

[@XtraOrdinar-y]

“Confines of the law” *kills Hosea, Mac, kidnapped Abigail and attacked the gang at Lakay* He’s a Pinkerton detective not a law man, it is very illegal for him to do this. Milton was chuckling at Arthur while he was dying before taunting him, he’s more than happy to kill children and innocent people if it means his employer (a mass murderer) is happy, this is seen at Lakay when he tells his men to kill everyone in the shack, including jack, the women, Pearson, Swanson, uncle and Micah who deserves to be killed but right now he’s acting as an informant. Milton doesn’t care to kill someone that is on his side if it means he gets his man. Not to mention he kidnapped Abigail, a young mother, to lure the rest of the gang in. He knew that unlike him, they valued they’re members and were a family. He doesn’t think Arthur is a truly a good person, he hates every member of the gang and everything they stand for. He makes this very clear when he kills Hosea and Mac. He says that he enjoyed killing then and mentions how he is proud of the genocide on Native Americans. He’s also racist and is more than happy to let his men (who are bad men) die and never engages in gunfights, he just starts them and shoots defenceless men in the street for pleasure. He also ‘sweats’ molly knowing she’s an innocent woman. He also doesn’t care about saving innocent people’s lives as he’s more than willing to let the O’driscolls go if they get him Dutch although Colm is a much much worse man than Dutch.

[@Ata.TeaGargler]

Milton was a sadist, he loved to torture and torment his targets On the other hand, Ross was brutal, he played dirty to complete his objective. He probably took such approach after he saw what happened to Milton

[@MarkEstratocaster]

Still better than Ross, though lol. Wish we would've gotten more interactions with him. The voice actor really nailed the role!

[@nubberton1345]

I’ve never hated Milton. I just saw him as a man doing his job.

[@SilverOre67]

He is doing his job, but he is still kind of a killerbehind a badge. I mean, he did not have to kill Hosea in cold blood. Although I say, Ross is even more twisted. He gave them chances. Milton gave them 2. ROSS Even promised life of a piece if he helped him hunt down his fellow gangmembers. John did that he still kills him.

[@theoutsiderjess1869]

I actually like Milton he is one of the more honest pinkertons he tried to give the gang chances to give up Dutch or disband

[@Maddog-xc2zv]

I would rather state that choice is more than a trick to fish the gang rather than a real thing. Personality does not change in a month or two just because. At the end, like Dutch, Milton showed his real face: law was the mean to provide him power over others, feed his narcissistic traits, and most likely also psychopathology at some degree as he shows no empathy (nor remorse) even for innocent bystander on the saint denis robbery. He's also a sadistic MF, as he gazes with his stories of others suffering. I don't believe there was anytime at all a choice, it was just a game an Milton mythomania demanded that he showed he was the one under control. He's the dark side of the law, which is such an instrument to him to achieve is personal goals, and I'm not talking about Batman. Cheers.

[@maxrocketansky]

He was lying

[@JackycakesV2]

He was still a terrible person

[@Conky88]

He was gonna kill all of them.

[@RyanTheDark]

I like to think Milton saw through Dutch and knew that he abducted people as killers. He ain't a saint, but until it's been disproven with good evidence, I'll go by if Milton made a deal with Arthur and/or John, he would have let them go or at least give them time to leave and act like decent human beings somewhere else as he put it.

[@Dragoonborn]

I think a big reason for Milton not using a maxim gun at saint denis is civilian casualties. Being in that it is in a big city and there are hostages with no affiliation with the gang in the bank.

[@John.McMillan]

One thing to keep in mind about Milton's brutality as well; The more brutal he got was a direct response to the gang's increased violence. The more the gang robbed not just banks, but regular people, destroying property, killing dozens of people who aren't just other outlaws, the more Milton gets vicious. And even the its not until the gang kills ALOT more people that Milton stops offering deals and starts wanting all of them either dead or arrested, the women included (keep in mind, Sadie and Karen have been seen directly robbing and killing, and all of the girls work to help the gang.) Alot of people forget that the gang we play with are the bad guys, they kill innocent people and rob the little guy for themselves and act like they are better than other gangs doing the exact same thing.

[@CandleWisp]

Hosea: "We're killers. And now we aren't even pretending to be anything but."

[@mikedroz2301]

12:56 Pinkertons were basically Mercs for hire and did a lot of work with the US Government, but they accepted work from anyone who could pay for it. This scene is the first time Pinkertons are working with more than just federal funding, which can get you 2 agents. Cornwall had to have unloaded barrels upon barrels of gold in order to cover the cost of all that artillery

[@The-Dexterous-Trout]

I always think that Milton kind of reflects Dutch in the fact that they both spiral out of control by the end of the game with Milton being reasonable in the beginning as he just wanted Dutch but by Lagras he goes insane wanting to kill the whole gang including the women and Jack

[@metarock3054]

I don't understand gamers bashing character they dont have proper background about just because this character was an obstacle for main protagonist. He could have killed Marston and Abigail and Sadie! But he didn't. He even offered deals to group to surrender Dutch. This guy ran out of patience with dutch. robbing hard earned money 9f saint Denis people that why he killed hosea! God knows how much chaos Micah and other gang members caused that was not shown. Most of them were savages in thr gang except for a few who had some morales.

[@DaddyMaster76]

Nah

[@XtraOrdinar-y]

You are so deluded

[@Corvus_Reaper74]

The thumbnail really goes both ways, saying The Imperfect lawman or The I'm perfect lawman.

[@waltvonkeisel5610]

Even if Arthur took his offer of ratting Dutch out, Milton would just go "Oh I promised you wouldn't swing, never said anything about you not rotting in prison for life."

[@Trash_Cat21]

Milton was reasonable while Ross was evil.

[@Maddog-xc2zv]

The first made the second in my opinion (or helped to). The bad apple does not fall far from the tree.

[@Trash_Cat21]

@@Maddog-xc2zv To an extent. After hearing about Milten's death at the hands of the gang he took no chances with John.

[@Maddog-xc2zv]

IMO, far more than by extent. Milton's behavior all over the game is fac simile with Dutch, only both being on opposite sides of the law. Milton's also a Narcissist and a psychopath, have no doubts mate. And both also have huge egos, typical of mythomaniacs. Cheers. Ross I'll not argue, you already summed it up quite well in few words.

[@AshleysBrother]

​@@Trash_Cat21well put

[@XtraOrdinar-y]

No

[@officialconch]

Yeah there’s absolutely NO WAY he didn’t know who John was. And if he really didn’t know who John was, there’s no way he would let the gang know that unless it was for some strategy

[@garrettneukam2588]

I would love to see an in depth video of why Dutch decided not to leave after all. At the end of the game if you choose to go back for the money, there was $40,000. That should have been more than enough for the gang to start over and then some.

[@tschaytschay4555]

Because Dutch lived for the idea, nothing more. There is a playthrough of a therapist who explains it pretty well. He never wanted to settle, he wanted to sell a dream to his loyal followers and be the big leader. Have you ever noticed that every time when things in camps get settled and people get cozy and peaceful, Dutch orchestrates "one more big score" so they have to leave again and how the group dynamics function best in these times? They are conditioned to stick toghether in stressfull times, to depend on each other with their charismatic leader. Dutch never wanted to settle, this is even said in an interview with Dutch's actor. I don't know in which to be fair but if you want a deeper analytics of Dutch and the group's dynamic, I recommend the let's play of Dr.Mick. You don't have to watch it all, just switch to cutscenes or scenes with dialogue (and also worth noting, which Dr.Mick noticed instantly, Dutch never gave a donation to camp himself. What a great leader).

[@jamiewalsh9184]

He actually seemed pretty alright behind it all. He gave the gang lots of chances. He could have just brutalized the camp in chapter 3 but he didnt. He could have took in arthur and jack in chapter 2. He wanted to cut off the snakes head.

[@JackycakesV2]

So he decided to MURDER hosea? Who was defenseless? Purely as an act of terror? And then kidnap Abigail solely to draw them out because he knew she had a child in the gang. If that’s “pretty alright” you’re crazy

[@Tsudkyk]

Milton wasn’t just a lawman, he was a man playing a game. He loved the chase, he would play mind games and see if the gang implodes.

[@nickcozzie6614]

See I liked Milton because he actually cared about his job. Ross is just corrupt to the core and not only that he has no morals as to where Milton has a clear moral standpoint

[@clarked345]

Pinkerton’s aren’t a law agency. They are just rich people’s toys like Arthur said.

[@RR-ou3so]

Love the video. I've liked the theory ones too. Have you ever thought about making a video about the different members of the gang getting tuberculosis instead of Arthur and how that would have changed things, just a thought.

[@jqmascarado3451]

And to think that in the end, milton got what he wanted. With agent ross carriying on his mission in the red dead sequel and you (the player) as john marston killing of the remainders of the van der linde gang. If only at the time I played the first game I knew that I was doing Milton's left over dirty work

[@williamfrank962]

Another noteable thing is that he didn’t cause Molly’s death. She pretty much committed suicide, yes and questioned her to the point of her breaking down but they stopped after knowing they couldn’t get anything from them. Not saying what they did was right but Milton was throughout the game pretty consistent when it came to showing that he didn’t enjoy causing mass pain to the gain only did things that were considered needed.

[@nihaalsandim9986]

I mean , molly was already long gone in chapter 4 ,

[@Garry5360]

While you’re waiting on top of the bank for them to come a maxim gun shows up during the bank robbery

[@psychoticdaizyproductions569]

Pretty sure Dutch shot that black girl in blackwater the same way Milton shot Hosea. Milton probably saw that and realized just how seriously he should be taking Dutch. More importantly he realized the squad follows Dutch.

[@Logan_TheLegend]

So it was a reference

[@psychoticdaizyproductions569]

@@Logan_TheLegend my theory. Then dutch did the same thing again years later in blackwater Again

[@Mostwanted_dj]

The only members of the gang that Milton knew were Dutch, Hosea, and Arthur. He them because they were the main members of the gang. They were in the gang for 20 years. And also in the missing where we rescue Sean Javier says that were pictures of Dutch and Hosea in Blackwater

[@thecowboy9698]

Agent Milton was a huge jerk, so much so that even his own men hated him, but at the same time, we do see him try to give the gang as many chances as he could. He even admitted that he didn't want to slaughter the whole gang, he merely wanted Dutch, and despite the others being criminals, he gave them the opportunity to leave in peace. It was only after the gang persisted, that Milton went no-hold-bard on them. So really, Milton wasn't the man at fault, not really. The real problem was Dutch.

[@John.McMillan]

I think Milton early on was not saying anyone would get a pardon, but he was specifically there for Dutch. Without Dutch there is no gang, and if they betrayed Dutch he would more of just ignore them when they ran away and not track them down. There was no point in it. Now, that's something that can't be said for Ross. Ross was nearly identical to Dutch but on the "right" side of the law, he lied to and manipulated John just to betray and kill him. I think Milton likely would have just let John go after he did his job. What I like about my theory is that in RdR1, Milton is the head agent and somewhat decent, while Ross is no better than the men they hunt. But in RdR1, Ross is the head agent and no better than the criminals, while his second (can't remember his name) seems like a genuinely decent person just trying to do right, and is even respectful to John. (Note that in both games, Ross isn't there in the end for Milton, and Ross' second isn't there when he kills John, or when Jack goes to kill Ross.) I like how it all plays out.

[@Matt_History]

I'm pretty sure nobody considered Hosea's death a murder. There's no telling how many people died in the explosion he set off

[@Maddog-xc2zv]

I did. It was a sadistic act that help us to understand Milton is not the rightful man many say he was, but just a Dutch "seconded by the United States". Polarized position, same similar personality traits (narcissism, mythomania, pychopathology....)

[@DirtyDev]

@@Maddog-xc2zvits not murder at all, Hosea forfeited his right to a trial years ago.

[@Maddog-xc2zv]

@@DirtyDev right, so law man now gun down unarmed people in front of a bank. nothing to do with sadism and it's will to break dutch, all in front of a city bank, using a machine gun showing no empathy not only for the gang, outlaws I agree, but also disregarding the well being of innocent bystanders. nothing a psychopath would do, of course.

[@maxrocketansky]

Most people consider it murder. Hosea was unarmed and not a threat.

[@maxrocketansky]

​@@DirtyDevfalse

[@EM38101]

Has anyone noticed that Milton (Agent, not Jim) looks like Gary from Bully. Gary was the main villain in Bully. We know that Jim boy calloway is Jimmy, the main character from Bully so maybe Milton could be based off of Gary, the villain. I know this is a stretch but it's good food for thought.

[@packetloss9931]

RDR universe and GTA is the same universe. Why shouldn´t be bully part of this universe too?

[@Lilmsjaymo]

I also swear I've seen a version of Mr Pierson on gta4

[@zacharyreed45]

Milton was lucky Aurther didnt smoke his ass.

[@Gnosis4me4you]

Arthur was lucky Milton didn’t smoke his ass by the river

[@Bømær]

Milton couldnt have done that arthur was armed at the river and arthur could've shot him right than and there. Of course had he done that the game would've been hunted by the us.

[@LucienMahikai]

And if he did, Arthur would've had to fight an army of Pinkertons. No amount of Dead-Eye could save him from that.

[@billiem2372]

Ross lead the charge at the end of chapter 6. Milton would've taken some of them alive, Ross went in guns ablazing

[@SleepyjoeOG]

12:50 they did bring in a maxim gun during the robbery,it comes out on a wagon once Arthur gets on the roof

[@HarrisOllie]

0:20. RIP WAN WINKLE

[@titustavares335]

Been waiting for a video on Milton forever. I agree with you. He’s just a reflection of Dutch. It’s pathetic that he thinks he’s worth something, isn’t it?

[@Maddog-xc2zv]

finally, someone with sense! I strongly agree. One has a badge, other is an open criminal, but their personalities are siamese.

[@jabfit24]

Talks like a major category 5 hurricane.

[@timsim1940]

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@makb_the_striker]

His "badge" is a trinket, he's employed by a private company and has no government-delegated authority. This means, that he had no authority to let people go or to negotiate softer punishment for Arthur. He was lying to Arthur and the whole gang, and they knew it. Juridically he has no difference with van der Linde. That's another gem in the crown of the RDR2 storyline.

[@Anglo-Saxon9]

Dutch as well as most of the people in the gang are evil and Milton had every reason to be cruel to them but chose to give them multiple chances to turn Dutch in and live normal lives.

[@exquatorz]

the simple fact is milton gave the gang numerous chances, realistically he could have wiped out the gang all the way back in chapter 3 on a multitude of times milton continuously stated that he only wanted dutch allowing the gang to run free and live new lives

[@Nomenooooo]

Agent Milton is one of my favourite villains ever.

[@bliczb8772]

Something to note about your comparison of stand-off in Saint Denis and assault in Lakay - Saint Denis actually had a genuine risk of innocent people being harmed in the crossfire, as gang had hostages within the vault. Dutch even mentions that if Milton tries something stupid, he's going to harm said hostages. My guess is that Milton legally couldn't bring Maxim machinegun and the likes with him, as it's power would've been a genuine risk for the hostages. On the Lakay, there was no hostage situation - the gang, albeit containing non-combatants, didn't had any leverage. Milton could've went all out.

[@deldude1412]

No one seems to take the Saint Denis scenario into account. You're 100% correct about how Milton took a massive risk with hostages present. Fanbase: *mIlToN wAs JuSt DoInG hIs JoB*

[@LucienMahikai]

​@@deldude1412He was. All of the Van Der Linde Gang, except for Jack, were ruthless murderers, robbers, and outlaws.

[@AColonDashSix]

Some people here don't seem to understand. Milton didn't give Dutch and the gang "chances". He would have seen them all hanged. He just wanted Dutch the most because Dutch kept finding a way out of his grasp. He wanted to kill Dutch in such a way that made him feel powerful, not in a shootout like Mac ... which he probably lied about killing (Mac was most likely dead already). Both Milton and Dutch want control. Milton tries to gain control by extortion and fear. Dutch gains control by contempt for authority. Neither men are really "evil" but both are willing to kill in order to get what they want. Neither of them are capable of admitting wrong or seeing the world outside of their black and white mindset, despite both men acting contrary to the beliefs they claim to uphold.

[@KaponoMonster]

Milton must’ve been those kids in school that reminds the teacher they have homework

[@jackarcher6396]

Maybe he mentioned Cornwall first at Lakay because the government stopped supporting him for whatever reason but by that point he was just desperate to take the gang down for good

[@Maddog-xc2zv]

Because we was acting more as a vigilante for private interests instead of serving the law, I'd say...

[@TheThirdMe]

I find it somewhat funny how Milton threatens the whole game with fifty men. Arthur alone can take at least thirty, Arthur and John can probably take all fifty.

[@LucienMahikai]

No he can't lol. Canon Arthur is not nearly as good as the Arthur the player plays as.

[@Darkmage1293]

6:13 - I'm reminded of the phrase from The Suffering: "Blame the Sin; not the sinner." I wouldn't doubt Agent Milton views Dutch as the embodiment of the romanization of an Outlaw, and how that MUST be punished for civilized life to thrive.

[@koolandblue]

I think Milton was being honest about giving the gang a chance. When Milton tries to intimidate the gang members into surrendering, he always talks about keeping order and safety for society. When he has the argument with Cornwall he mentions doing everything he can within the confines of the law. He captured Molly but let her go after he didn't get any useful information out of her, so that says he isn't completely merciless towards Dutch's associates. Also keep in mind that killing Hosea wasn't murdering an innocent person. Hosea was conspiring with a group of criminals to rob a bank- he was just as guilty as everyone else in the gang. Perhaps killing Hosea was unnecessary, but Hosea put himself in that position and was not a helpless victim. In regards to Jack- yes, Milton opens fire on the gang without giving them a chance to surrender in the swamp. But as evidenced before, the gang scorns the idea of surrender. The gang could have used a chance to come out peacefully as an opportunity to escape. Also Jack has been placed in danger as collateral damage due to the gang before- the Braithwaites kidnapped Jack and the O'Driscolls attacked Shady Belle. The life the gang leads is what put Jack in danger just as much as Milton's actions. Milton's methods may have been ruthless and high questionable, but the people he was ruthless towards were a gang of criminals. And at the end, he was working towards a safe and secure society.

[@suxix7312]

John could of walked away right then and there and he would of been know as rip van winkle!

[@OldKingCole927]

If you think about it, Milton died thinking John’s name was Rip van Winkle

[@beatrixdobson4795]

Milton might be one of the most honourable characters in the game. That being said, the only thing I dislike about RDR2 is that we didn't get to shoot this MF ourselves.

[@sirlink9611]

Milton was more honorable and had respect for the law, unlike his protege, Ross. I honestly believe he would have kept his word when he told the gang members they have three days to run off and give up a life of crime before they all die. I think if it were Milton instead of Ross in RDR1, I think he would have let John live his life after returning to Beecher's Hope instead of betraying him after he was no longer any use to him. He was ruthless, relentless, and cold, but he was a man of his word. Still can't forgive him for Hosea, though. But I understand why he did it, even though it was fucked up.

[@silentfox1738]

i think its interesting that even his own agents hate him. he does seem arrogant like you said, and he underestimates his enemies.

[@JEZZE4322]

I liked Milton a hell of a lot better than Ross. He seemed more civil and just and offered freedom to everyone but Dutch (granted he could have been lying) but Ross reveled in his power as a Pinkerton, taunting jack by the river and chuckling while holding his gun , then deceiving John into doing his dirty work and then killing him.

[@dyllionaire7913]

I could never unsee Ed Harris the moment I first met Milton.

[@WoRLDs_CoLLiDiNG]

RS should make a game where you play as Milton, starting as a young man, up until his death.

[@maxrocketansky]

Nobody would play that lol

[@Heisen_burger-dude]

Milton is very right about dutch. Completely looking through dutchs bla bla and seeing the killer he is. While dutch was trying to be more, he certainly didn't end up like that

[@Maddog-xc2zv]

Milton is the same, if you reverse the bla bla. He's not there to protect and serve but to make a point he's more powerful. At the end, in very different roles, they're personalities are the same. So I would also say a very sick Ducth was also right about Milton. And you can see his seed on Ross in RDR1. Just saying...

[@Heisen_burger-dude]

@@Maddog-xc2zv milton isn't a good person but he gave them a choice to run or stay

[@Maddog-xc2zv]

@@Heisen_burger-dude did he? or was it just a play, as, again like Dutch, he considers himself above all others (mythomania)? all pretty speechs are only to justify their actions and to make their personas even greater. Those are the two most narcissistic characters in this game, don't doubt it. How this game managed different personalities and traits/conditions is one of the biggest reasons why this game is so great . Final note: as you see of Arthur, he also could have gunned down both Milton and Ross while with Jack, but even this mercyless outlaw wanted to prevent to risk Jack's life or just him to watch uncle Arthur putting two asses to the ground. Second, Milton also got in in camp without visible support (if he could have killed before? sure, most likely. That's a big clue about his personality disdorder - or should I say disorders?) and also Van der Linde let him walk unharmed. as you see, just with a couple of comparisons, you notice how equal they are in their delusional minds. In a way, Dutch also showed mercy by letting them go - like you say, they're cold blooded killers and answer to no moral but the one Dutch's have been created maybe since his infant traumas (you have at least two he talks about, with his father, and while fishing with Arthur and Hosea, about his mother) to answer to - no society rules apply here. Cheers, mate

[@Heisen_burger-dude]

@@Maddog-xc2zv he says they can run

[@Maddog-xc2zv]

@@Heisen_burger-dude as much as dutch say they can leave the camp alive. their both playing mind games of power with each other because both are narcissist assholes with the many times proven trait of lack of empathy for others that in this case points to a psychopatic personality disorder.

[@Rocket_Brothers_Gaming]

This all make sense but they is one thing that you didn't say: Milton needs some face cream 💀💀

[@smoqueed44]

The cutscene where they corner Arthur and Jack is one of the few times we see Arthur intimidated. Handled himself well, but if the Pinkertons decided to shoot Arthur and take Jack, imagine how bad of a position the Van Der Linde gang would be in.

[@ccompson2]

Someone needs to make a mod to make milton look like adam schiff with his evil bug eyes

[@burnedsmackdown4209]

At the Lake encounter I like to think at that point Milton felt insulted that Dutch was still alive seeing he when he got Micah he thought Dutch died at sea, but learning he was still alive he might have felt it was a insult to him personally that this one man that kept evading him is still out there alive

[@nixxgen9574]

Edgar Ross would later become the main villain in the first game

[@mushedups]

Ross is imo much worse than Milton, Milton gave Arthur a chance, he was very calm and collected with the gang. Ross on the other hand butchers a man for doing nothing more than helping him.

[@ElPatron42069]

Rdr2 is filled with so much great content

[@ghost_of_nyc6497]

Milton is the Agent Smith of the Wild West

[@snowthesmith]

The one thing I hate, hosaya looked at his killer, the only person other than him to do the same is Arthur, (micha) never look your killer in the eye

[@mellomoose_]

why not?

[@snowthesmith]

@@mellomoose_ if you shoot a man in the back, you are the coward!

[@garrettvance4686]

That is absolutely not when the Pinkerton's started in on Dutch's boys, they were already onto them at the time of the blackwater heist

[@CynicGTA]

Agreed. What i meant was this was when it seemed a bit more personal since they had what appeared to be a dedicated pinkerton(Milton) tracking them down

[@garrettvance4686]

@@CynicGTA right but that's just the first time he identified himself to the gang, no knowing how long Milton was actually on the case. And i don't think we'll see the blackwater heist ourselves any time soon

[@mcnuttington7122]

Great video real in depth

[@bgoldbricks]

I’m confused as to why Dutch and the gang didn’t just shoot Milton and Ross at the end of chapter 3, it was just the two of them and then Hosea wouldn’t have been killed later.

[@user-hx6gs9rq7u]

Cause it would have only made the situation much worse, Milton gave them chances, whoever replaces him wouldn’t

[@knightingale9833]

Do you think it's possible Milton underwent a change in Chapter 3 after the bloodbaths in Rhodes and after the trolley station robbery in chapter 4? He may have felt all those deaths were on his shoulders, hence why he didn't even negotiate at the bank

[@lowendzo]

I believe the reason that the Pinkertons were so easily able to catch on to the city bank robbery was because of how sloppy and deseprate the gang had become. The O'driscolls already knew the shady belle location, and we learned early on in the story Colm was in contact with the law. I believe camping in the forestry near Shady Belle were Pinkerton agents. Perhaps even that abandoned meat factory was an outpost for Pinkertons. So when a giant mob rode out of Shady belle heading towards Saint Denis, Pinkertons were able to quickly catch on and intercept the Vander Linde Gang mid act. So Arthur was right, there was no need for a rat, the gang had become slopier than the town drunk

[@FunkyCigarette]

Milton is ultra based

[@RayAkuma]

,,My Name is Dutch Van Der Linde, from the Van der Linde Detective agency! I have a warrant for You and your Band of Outlaws Mr Milton!"

[@MattJames2211]

He still had a lot more honour and gave the gang way more chances than someone like Edgar Ross

[@jujubees5855]

A game from the perspective of law enforcement, including the time Landon Ricketts was a policeman at the Blackwater Massacre would really bring the full circle, much like Jack at the river twice.

[@mikedroz2301]

Bruh I just thought. What if Milton was boning Heidi?

[@SRY473]

Don’t forget that when they said “dead or alive”…they meant it. This wasn’t a time of Miranda rights and concerns about police brutality.

[@KaitouKaiju]

From Milton's perspective it wasn't that he was willing to kill Jack more like he thought it was irresponsible having a child around a bunch of killers. He could even convince himself it was for Jack's safety to get rid of the gang the way he did

[@benlefebvre6012]

Even Kieran drew his gun on Milton at Clemens Point

[@Mr.Capitalism]

Milton clearly only cared about theor leader dutch clearly stated in the chapter 3 ending, same with the saint denis bank robbery where he is addressing dutch rather than the gang I think its because he saw that the gang included women and children when he encountered arthur and jack , he only wanted dutch and kept finding excuses to not aprehend them by the time we get to chapter 6 he is gunning for all the gang mainly the man power his last warning and the begining of his hunt in the fleeting joys Mission

[@Mr.Sax.]

Milton is a great antagonist, Ross is a villain. Milton is the bad guy because he's just doing he's job. Ross is just a horrible person.

[@NotTIMREK]

I feel like the reason they were soft on the gang was bc they wanted to pic them off one by one by firstly getting rid o thief leader

[@spacebread3920]

Worst park about Milton is that haircut

[@MicahsPlace]

I want a DLC where you play as Milton and hunt down the Van der Linde gang from his prospective

[@XtraOrdinar-y]

Milton brings at Gatling gun to the st Denis bank robbery

[@fatemahabdi5558]

Milton was an excellent Antagonist any game would be lucky to have. R* did an incredible job as always.