Blading pt. 2 - Turbine Engines: A Closer Look

A detailed look at installation of turbine blades. This time, we are working on the 2nd stage of the turbine of the Orenda type 14, an engine from a Canadair Sabre 6.
It was the Canadian-built version of the F86 Sabre...

[@frankhollein7093]

I like the way you work. Step by Step. No bull crap. This is the type of work conditions I have been looking for. I got into the big rig market after 4 years in the U.S. Navy. Keep up the good work, Jay.

[@AgentJayZ]

The axial force put on the blades by the passage of the gas also puts a strong twist through the entire firtree mount, which laso locks the blade in place. In addition to the centrifugal. The lock strips really only hold the blade position when very slow rotation is taking place. Good question !

[@AgentJayZ]

The compressor case is split in two along its axis into two halves, and some engines do use that design for the turbine cases. This engine has a one piece turbine case, so it has to be built up the way I describe in the video... good question !

[@nasseralavi7875]

Thanks slot I have got the best answers to my questions .

[@AgentJayZ]

The disk is etched with numbers, but any numbering system can be used, so long as it is understood by everybody working on the engine. So the answer to your question is " uh... both"

[@AgentJayZ]

Actually, the older engines are better for industrial power generation, for reasons beyond the scope of a comments section. We haven't worked on anything more modern than the LM2500 / CF6, but we just bought an F404...

[@MrWarwick15]

Thanks Jay! Nice video as always! Rich.

[@VanNguyen-te6ww]

Thanks ❤😊

[@AgentJayZ]

No, the balancing process will not be shown. I don't think I could stand the number of people who either whine about the lack of a safety cage, or "know" how things should be done and want to instruct me.

[@AgentJayZ]

The balance machine indicates the level and location of imbalance. The difficult part of the process is usually the exact amount of mass you want to move is different that what would happen if you traded the blade at the specified location with it's opposite at 180 degrees. That's why the machine can not determine exactly what to do, only the deviation from perfect balance.

[@grahamj9101]

My apologies, as I've only just come across this video: I really must do you the courtesy of going through your complete video catalog(ue). Considering its age, the Orenda 14 had a very advanced concept in those parts that you characterise as 'baffles'. In combination with the extended shank blade roots, I have no doubt that they are also acting as friction dampers (doesn't the T58/Gnome have a similar arrangement?). R-R has tended to stick with shrouded turbine blades, with the subsequent introduction of interlocking shrouds, hence your remark about the RB211. We (more specifically, I) had to put under-platform dampers into all three stages of the Pegasus 11-61 fan, in order to overcome a flutter problem and the EJ200 HP turbine, which radically diverged from R-R practice (but then it was designed in Bristol!), has unshrouded blades with under-platform dampers.

[@nathanrowe2356]

Great video glad this is out there thanks for doing this video hope for more :-)

[@iknowsstuff]

as always brilliant video

[@superdau]

This all looks like so much work and steps to fail. I'm sure modern engines got enough other complex steps added, but is it still like that in current engine designs or are there some real improvements which will simplify tasks like installing blades?

[@AgentJayZ]

Take comfort in the fact that: 1) you will never fly in an aircraft powered by this engine. 2) hundreds of (Canadian!) engineers made this engine incredibly reliable compared to its competitors. The service record shows the design works very well.

[@DScottDuncan]

Hey Jay, Another cool & thanks! My numb skull caught on to a few more tidbits of information! Good job, Mr Illustration; you could have been on The Weather Channel! Keep your same nickname too! Cheers (hiccup), Darren

[@jscussel]

Jay, as usual nice vid and explaination. Am I missing any vids you have done on the actual dynamic process of rebalancing? Could you vid that for us too? Sounds timeconsuming. Thanks again!!

[@AgentJayZ]

Hate to break it to you, but compared to modern engines, this is incredibly simple. ...steps to fail? You're an optimist at heart aren't you?

[@DScottDuncan]

Jay, This seems similar to the T-58 turbine section, sans you cursing while lockwiring! Assembled from 1st stage, back. Interesting! Darren

[@geonerd]

Do you have a big checklist or OMS that you diligently go through as you perform final assembly? There are so many little-yet-important things, like lock tabs, safety wiring, etc., that you might postpone or skip during an temporary assembly. Thanks as always.

[@bagelboi66]

I envy any system as precise and ordered as those you work with every day. It must be incredibly satisfying to create such perfection. If the design engineer is the theologian, then the turbine technicians must surely be the priests. I am most interested in the balance process. You balance everything as you build, then you put the whole thing together. How do you then balance an entire engine, or by then is everything so nearly perfect you do not need to? BTW how is shop kitty doing?

[@liderul11]

Thx for this video !

[@chandrashekhargote]

Hi jay, nice video again... I have a question, The fir tree base configuration of the turbine blade tapers towards the turbine disc, why is this configuration not inverted? Fir tree base configuration tapering towards the turbine blade. Surely an inverted fit is likely to ensure far greater stability and strength and lower the chances of dislodging the turbine blade from the turbine disc further more.

[@Aushumanoid]

Hey JayZ, Curious..such an old engine, do the HP turbine blades get high pressure bleed air to allow internal/film cooling? Great video. And correct me if I'm wrong but those turbine blades, are they impulse to reaction shaped?

[@torifan1976]

That looks like very difficult machining on those components. I wonder if a wire edm is used to form the lock-in grooves.

[@truebluekit]

More! More!

[@arkiskewl]

I'm not sure if you're monitoring comments on older videos, but I came across this promotional video on GE's website and thought you might enjoy it. It discusses them using an additive process to construct engine parts, including turbine blades and fuel nozzles. Really awesome! Additive Manufacturing - The Next Industrial Revolution

[@AgentJayZ]

Shop Kitty has retired from her film career. She likes to spend her days sleeping near sources of heat. What she does at night, nobody knows.

[@frankhollein7093]

I notice you say all the lock tabs are the same. Does that mean you don't number them too? I would think you would keep them numbered too.

[@AgentJayZ]

The manual and the parts list, with its exploded diagrams, are always open and right there. And yes, you need to be very careful and review every step.

[@343jonny]

Does the balancing machine tell you specifically which blades to swap and where to put the balancing weights,or is it a trial and error job by the technician?

[@supersavage123]

on a quick guess would be something along the lines of simpler, more cost effective dew to lower service costs and parts replacement, ge f404 nice after burning version? thanks for the reply

[@corrodesthefilm]

I hope there will be F404 videos coming up

[@petertimowreef9085]

79 turbine blades... J79... That can't be a coincidence right..?

[@BikiniDuckCreations]

Are the locktabs an item that gets taken apart and saved for re-use, or are they single-use, needing fresh ones each time a blade is serviced? Also, the numbering, is that "original", or does each tech number things as needed during service?

[@AgentJayZ]

We stick to aeroderivative and very light industrial engines. Those big units can't be shipped, and are worked on at the installation. We don't do that. If we did, I'd video it !

[@richwaight]

Love your vids man :)

[@sharrynuk]

Why can't the turbine nozzles come in from the side the way the compressor stators do?

[@wdcjunk]

Why don't you number the blade baffles as well? Or do you?

[@AgentJayZ]

They are all identical in weight. I weighed a hundred of them just to be sure. One by one, all the same.

[@AgentJayZ]

They are all within a tenth of a gram, and they are all exactly the same shape, which is what I meant. It shouldn't matter which one goes where... but sometimes one identical part is more identical than another, eh? That's what I meant by black magic...

[@CaseyRedDragon]

about how long do overhauls take?

[@j79jetmechthomas15]

explain the difference between pan weight versus moment weight when balancing turbine.

[@AgentJayZ]

+j79 jetmech thomas I'm guessing by your name that you already know that. The way you give orders hurts my feelings.

[@alexhimselfworks]

AWESOME! I hope your videos NEVER sopt being made!!!

[@supersavage123]

still think your engines are awesome, even tho there 50 year old technology pritty crazy, you's specialize on lm1500 engines but do you work on anything more modern so to speak?

[@necedm]

Where's shop kitty!?

[@corrodesthefilm]

Haha, like on your other balancing video...