Land Engine: Aircraft Turbine = Big Power

[@Yeunuocviet7]

Hi AgentJayz, i've been watching every clip of yours and would like to stop by your place to see these engines. Please let me know if i can, i am so desperate to see these things in real life. I really appreciate it and really appreciate for all of your video clips, they meant so much to all of us. Thank you again.

[@TheDeeSpence]

Going into a module next to one of these things is an exhilarating experience. The heat, the sounds... love it!

[@AgentJayZ]

The IGVs are at the very front of the engine. There are a couple of little tubes running to the actuator to supply hydraulic oil as its power source. I think you might be talking about the 30 lines leading from the water injection manifold into the dual fuel nozzles. The engine runs on natural gas, and has its power boosted with water injection. Cooling air to the turbine flows down the center of the hollow shafts of the compressor and then the turbine.

[@bobbyvader]

Like it, how you present all your hardware, slow opening doors, then the good audio and video quality, Then your knowledge and skills. Always a pleasure to watch!

[@AgentJayZ]

The knocking noise is the one-way ratchet clutch on the starter. And usually there is a lighter, higher pitched clicking noise caused by the turbine blades rattling in their mounts on the disc. I have posted videos on both of these subjects. Check out these ones: Jet Engine Turbine Blade Noise The Air Starter How to Start a Jet Engine Always good to hear from a fellow motorcyclist.

[@AgentJayZ]

Start cart supplies pressurized air to the on-board air-turbine starter. It's in a different position on this engine... at the rear of the gearbox. This is the gas generator portion of the package... the load on the GG is provided by the restricted orifice at the back of our jetpipe

[@AgentJayZ]

Yes, slamdvw is right on the money. The Power Turbine videos should help explain how the power is extracted and used.

[@albula642]

And I thought that it was the same shaft as LP turbine. Great to learn new things. Thank you! Greetings from Norway

[@AgentJayZ]

I was just reading the manual today, and IGV position is determined by mass airflow. On the ground that means inlet air temp and engine rpm. In the sky I'm sure airspeed has some influence on their position.

[@barumman]

A work of art,thanks for sharing.

[@jlo13800]

at least its not a 4 joke stroke POS

[@AgentJayZ]

I do everytime... All you do is let it idle for a minute or so, and chop the fuel. Easy-peasy, lemon-squeezy ! In a pinch, at any power setting, the fuel can be instantly shut off, and no damage will result to almost any turbine engine. It is harder on the hot parts, so a minute or two of idling is recommended. For the exact same reason the truckers do it: to allow the turbine blades to cool down from working temp.

[@dundonrl]

I served on 2 different Navy destroyers, each ship powered by 4 of those engines.. 100,000 hp to the shafts.. incredible to watch the millions of ft lbs of torque that the reduction gear was able to handle that those engines made.

[@AgentJayZ]

... and the guy actually bumped into the plane. That's close. You can feel it before it becomes dangerous... but it still is a good idea to move back if you feel anything.

[@AgentJayZ]

Yes, degrees f He's feeling for vibration... it's a turbine jedi thing... takes decades of experience.

[@343jonny]

Yeah! Another AgentJayz video! Man, I would pay money to watch these I love them so much. The knowledge i get from these videos is invaluable!

[@jcims]

Thanks...went back and got the answer at the end of the vid (should have tried that to begin with). I'm sure the customer will be quite happy, any company that keeps their shop that clean is probably going to be doing good work. :)

[@AgentJayZ]

Per unit of volume, liquid propane has less energy content than kerosene or gasoline, so you need more volume to store the same energy content.. Also, at 20 degrees C, propane is a liquid at about 150psi, so the tanks have to be stronger and heavier, as well as bigger.

[@AgentJayZ]

Oh, now I get what you're talking about. They are used to measure air pressure at the inlet face. This pressure is a bit lower than ambient atmospheric, and the difference between the two is called bellmouth depression.

[@AgentJayZ]

Lane is connecting the fuel line.This test we waited until the past moment to do so, in order to ensure no condensation in the line.

[@AgentJayZ]

As long as you keep her on a leash... yes!

[@AgentJayZ]

This engine incorporates some design features introduced by GE on the T58

[@AgentJayZ]

They are. You can tell by all the noise that the engine is running. If the turbine wasn't turning, you could hear the birds chirping.

[@zapfanzapfan]

Gorgeous pipework, a real piece of art.

[@AgentJayZ]

We rely on keeping the area forward of the engine clean and free of anything that could enter it.

[@ChromeXk]

Fantastic videos AgentJayZ! I'm going to be working on a cruise ship that uses the LM2500+ for power generation in November. The ship is the Coral princess out of Fort Lauderdale if you're interested. Your videos are helping me prepare, since i've never worked on one before!

[@volsanslimit]

That is certainely one of the most interesting jobs on earth. Big toys for big boys :) thanks for this nice report

[@TheTomBevis]

I always loved starting the APU when I was in the USAF. WOOOOOOIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEBWIIIISSSSSSS!

[@AgentJayZ]

We stay about 10m out from the inlet at full power. If you can feel the wind pushing you towards it, you are too close.

[@compactc9]

I believe you said this one is destined for a power plant in the souther US. I got curious about finding videos of a natural gas power plant inside, as they all use turbine engines of varying kinds and sizes, and learned that newer plants use the heat from the exhaust after the power turbine to create steam to run a steam powered turbine that makes a bit less power than the one driven by the engine's exhaust. So now they are making even more power from an engine without having the engine need to make more, they're just fully using all of the energy, both in gas speed and temperature to make power.

[@AgentJayZ]

Yes, that's called co-generation, and it is a common practice to increase overall plant efficiency.

[@AgentJayZ]

One of my special areas of operation is the voiding of warranties...

[@AgentJayZ]

one dog, one horse, and sadly: three trucks

[@AgentJayZ]

They are glad I'm running around with a camera, because otherwise they worry what I might be up to.

[@AgentJayZ]

In service it will run on natural gas. In the video I mention what it will be used for. We run our propane through a heat exchanger to turn it into heated vapour. The storage tanks are not heated.

[@reedyuan]

Thanks for all the great videos, very educational!

[@75Bird455]

I've not seen an LM2500 in person, but I do deal with a lot of GE 7FA and 7EA turbines at HRSG (Heat Recovery Steam Generator) power plants. The 7's are huge!

[@ciscotorres]

Good video, been a long time since I've seen a MA-1A startup an engine. I have six LM-6000, HP/LP SPRINT at my site that we use for power generation and they can really rock. Produce about 49 MW at 47 degree inlet temp.

[@AgentJayZ]

This engine runs on natural gas in its installation, as do all of our LM1500s, Speys, Avons, Solars, and Olympus...

[@AgentJayZ]

Interesting comment. I've just reviewed the video... and in the final edit, it is 3min, 2 sec between reduction to idle and shutdown. But you are familiar with what happens when one edits footage, no?

[@jimtully543]

Must be very low friction bearings in there, for it to take so long to coast to a stop.

[@billdennis2993]

AgentJayz thx for the informative video just curious why no inlet screens are being used to prevent FOD damage. I have a sad story I experienced while working at McDonnell Douglas flight line in about 1982 when the first KC10 ship 303 IIRC was being ground engine checked without the lion cages that were normally placed in front of the engine inlets for FOD protection while running, On this day a ramp rat (air craft mech) had placed a ladder over the engine protective cover behind the blast wall. Unfortunately the winds that day along with jet blast blew the cover back into the engine including the two metal handles on the cover were ingested thru the core of the CF6 which became a total loss in the scramble to replace the defective engine a MDC tug was pulling a new engine complete with nacelle on trlr which tipped overr going thru swaill on concrete resuling in another total loss of at that time $4m if that wasn't enough damage for 1 day the swing shift came in and attempted to light off the Apu which was being serviced by day crew earlier without lockout tag out which resulted in another FOD damaged total loss. Grand total loss for the day was $10m which was about half the going rate for a complted MD80 back then. I got laid off about a year later after 3yrs there when Mngmt let the UAW bring thousands of laid off autoworkers from closed GM and Ford plants to replaced trained and qualified aircraft workers resulting in continued decline in quality of Aircraft that were once the best in the air when it was Douglas Aircraft. Moral of the story, FOD is the enemy dont give it a chance or bad things will happen.

[@steveeisenburger6011]

Even with all the beautiful precision that goes into these engines, it still blows me away, how they manage centrifugal forces of such magnitude without blowing apart. Even idol RPM's are a little scary. Then😳

[@AgentJayZ]

The main rotor speed is 9200 rpm at the rated output of this engine

[@geonerd]

Mo POWAH!! :) Where does the air cart output plug in? (Guessing the combustor area.) Is this unit a gas generator or is there a mechanical PTO output somewhere? If so, do you have to worry about overspeed of unloaded components? Thanks again for the cool vids.

[@AgentJayZ]

There is always a constantly running auction for the chance to attend a test run, and even to start the engine. What's your bid ?

[@deSloleye]

Awesome, thanks for that. Did some searching for Bellmouth depression (wondering why it's measured and how the engine reacts). Didn't come up with much except some articles about shutting down the engine in icing conditions to prevent damage from ice ingestion. I would imagine that icing of the IGVs and struts in the intake would be a common hazard in Canada. How is it dealt with? What about dust and everything else the gas generators might ingest that an aero engine wouldn't encounter much?

[@1stMjolnirMarkV]

That spin down time O.o

[@aizatrusli360]

This is one of the best machines I've worked with so far. Less auxiliary system compared to RR RB211. Less hassle compared to its sibling LM2500+ DLE Dual fuel

[@EADO_HTX]

I work at GE Energy in houston I take these things apart in modules every day

[@toddevans1]

thank you again Jay!

[@AgentJayZ]

Nobody's ever tried to find out. If I was to try, at full power, I would start at 150 meters back, wearing goggles, and walk forward until I couldn't stand being hit with the rocks and dirt any more.

[@AgentJayZ]

I was going to tell you... and then for fun I did a Yahoo search for FOD. It was the first freakin hit. It took me more effort to tell you this than it would take you to find the answer.

[@theoldbigmoose]

Jay you had to be proud when your "baby" ran up to full power. Looks like your were the crew chief for this build.

[@AgentJayZ]

It was actually a big project with several senior techs working together. The nominal head of state would be big Al.

[@AgentJayZ]

Canon point and shoot Digital Elph 500, 1400, and 980. The latter two shoot in 720p, so they are being retired.

[@deSloleye]

Actually the tubes I'm referring to are right inside the inlet of the compressor casing in front of the IGVs. They look like they'd vent something into the airflow. Some are curved back towards the IGVs, some just point up from the surface of the casing. They're open ended, rather than hydralic lines.

[@AgentJayZ]

@TeemarkConvair The process of building up this engine is the subject of my turbofan parts donor videos

[@jcims]

I have a question that is probably answered in another video, but if I start watching them I'll be on youtube until 3am. I'm assuming this has a field application? Will it be powered by propane or will it be converted to natural gas (or some other fuel)? Do you have to heat the cylinders to maintain adequate pressure?

[@ejwalsh877]

Thank you Jay, your videos are always very entertaining and informative, I used to work for a company that supplied GE aero-derivative parts, so I recognize many of these individual components, I have never seen them together in a working unit. which leads me to ask where do you get your parts?

[@AgentJayZ]

When we work on aircraft engines, we buy our parts new from the manufacturer. When we work on industrial engines, we do that too, but also obtain parts from retired aircraft engine donors.

[@deSloleye]

Not seen if you've answered this but what are the little tubes that point into and back towards the inlet guide vanes? Also, you showed the air cooling vents in the turbine blades and stators ages ago. It's not hard to understand how the air is pumped from the compressor around the combustors into the stators, but how is the air pumped from the compressor into the turbine blades through the inside? Don't spose you can open it up again to show us?......

[@AgentJayZ]

We have not. I don't think an LM6000 would fit in the shop. I worked on one at the last place I was employed... when Elvis was still big.... and it was bigger than he was.

[@AgentJayZ]

I made a video just for answering questions like yours. It's called "Power turbines: what are they?"

[@Teddy_Bass]

Cool post. When you manufacture your own parts, do you stress test or for instance pressure test a pipe or maybe sonic test and xray

[@AgentJayZ]

When we manufacture parts, which is quite rare, we do those tests, and then we run them in our test engine to prove the reliability of the design before we ever put them in production.

[@Teddy_Bass]

Thanks for the Info. You have a really good channel.

[@08jkrubi]

Awesome video. And I though the GE-T64-416A was a big powerful turboshaft engine.

[@HugDeeznueces]

Love that sound!

[@Fierobsessed]

Ever place unwanted items in Jet Wash Alley? Sounds like fun!

[@AgentJayZ]

No. This engine is as protected as any on an aircraft on any major runway.

[@RobertBardos]

is there a particular way to shut down the jet engine? could you make a video describing what the sequence of events are to properly shut down a running engine?

[@TeemarkConvair]

was the 2500 supplied by the customer, and you all rebuilt it? or,? what? and what parts were "donated' from the old cf6? again,, thanks,, and BCI [was it?} should be proud

[@PatrickLipsinic]

Same as a aircraft piston engine. BTW, what is involved in setting up these to run on LNG or CNG? Have you done it before?

[@hairyhothornylover1]

its me clyde and i have another question: i saw in a video of pratt and whitney has a new jet engine thats geared with less jet noise and uses less fuel.can you explain in video wat they mean of a internal geared jet engine? i watch a lot of your videos and are very interesting and learning about jet engines.

[@theoldbigmoose]

The fan spool has a planetary gear stage in the hub of the fan.

[@svracer7808]

I'm sure this has been asked many times but is the sound the engine makes just the air going through the engine at high velocity or are there other factors involved to make the wonderful sound?

[@AgentJayZ]

Each time a blade passes by a stator or a strut, a small pulse of sound is made. Multiply the number of those pulses per evolution times the speed of the engine, and you get that winding, screaming sound. It's a bit loud, but hey, it's a 30 thousand Hp engine, give or take...

[@svracer7808]

@@AgentJayZ thanks for the reply I learned something new today, your videos are very instructive.

[@smithybix]

How do they produce power at the power generation place you are talking about without a power shaft off that engine? And a silly question maybe but what are se industrial applications for turbines like these?

[@PatrickLipsinic]

Ok, that is what I thought. I work at piston engine rebuild shop in Tulsa, OK. Powermaster Engines.

[@saxonlight]

Thanks AJZ.

[@Nyck461]

Jay, at how many rpm starting turbine works when starting the turbine?

[@motorpickle6410]

What are those things that look like stationary turbine blades? I thought the LM2500/CF-6 had a much bigger "front fan." (Sorry for all of the questions)

[@AgentJayZ]

You may want to watch a video I made called Turbojet or Turbofan...

[@GOLTURBO555]

AgentJayZ how you make the rate of power?

[@GOLTURBO555]

AgentJayZ :(

[@FreakSX93]

GOLTURBO555 Go find out on his channel! ;-)

[@OliverPorter92]

Hey awesome. Once again another question (may have been addressed before), but with that nozzle/ehaust configuration, what is the PT shaft connected to? Is there even a PT connected or is it the GG section only with a test nozzle installed? Thanks again for posting. Great resource.

[@AgentJayZ]

This engine normally has a PT attached, which turns a shaft to drive whatever machine needs 25,000 Hp. In this test, the PT is not present, and a test nozzle has been fitted

[@OliverPorter92]

AgentJayZ Fantastic. Forgive me for the barrage of questions, but 1) do you have to govern the GG stages in this kind of test to prevent overspeed even though the PT is only driven aerodynamically if installed? 2) Is the LM2500 technically a 3-spool device (Booster/LPT, HPC/HPT, PT), or is it just a booster and HPC/coupled PT? I know that the CF6 is 2-spool Fan-Booster/LPC, HPC/HPT, but in LM configuration, is it an added PT or is it still 2-spool? 3) Is this an LM2500 standard, G4, etc? there are so many LM2500 versions out there since it is so successful, it is hard to tell. Thanks again for all of your help. Much appreciated - this channel is a service to the world!

[@AgentJayZ]

The LM2500 has a PT section, not shown here, that is like the LP turbine of a CF6, but the shaft goes out the back instead of passing through the engine and driving a fan. But it is also possible to connect the single shaft GG section of your 2500 to a different PT of your choice. So the LM2500 with the integral PT is a two shaft, but the GG section is a single shaft. That's about the limit of my 2500 knowledge. Cheers !

[@rkshireygames]

AgentJayZ Let's say you put a flywheel on. Then how many ft lbs of torque would it produce? I've asked before but I forgot to mention the addition of a flywheel. I forgot the conversion formula, I think it's something like hp/rpm*2 or something like that.

[@AgentJayZ]

No flywheel needed with turbine power. A flywheel is a rotating mass used to smooth out pulses in an irregular source of torque, such as a steam or diesel piston engine. Turbines produce no pulses, only continuous torque. Nominal torque output of the PT shaft on a n LM2500 is 66,000 ft-lbs

[@xcofcd]

Does the control screen show egt in fahrenheit? and whats the boss-man checking on the running engine? at about 8:09 looked like he did something with a pen...

[@Recovering_Californian]

What is the suction danger zone radius around the front? I've heard that if you get too close a person could be sucked right in.

[@chinook366]

Jay, lots of questions, where in the hell did you get a LM2500 and why? Without a power turbine attached and coupled to something you have one big noise maker or a big giant hair dryer! LOL. I work at Evendale, building these things and have seen them used in every imaginable application. And they aren't cheap, but they are durable and reliable.

[@AgentJayZ]

chinook366 We work on industrial engines. We've worked on quite a few LM2500s We have a restricting cone load on the back to take the place of the PT.

[@aizatrusli360]

AgentJayZ Hi Sir, great video.What is the size of HP recoup orifice used? Can you share the concept of HP recoup?

[@clockman47]

Great engine.

[@douro20]

Have you worked on an LM2500 which had brush seals rather than labyrinth seals? MTU Aero Engines makes brush seals for those engines.

[@AgentJayZ]

Yes. I have posted videos of the Lm2500. No brush seals anywhere. Nope.

[@albula642]

on this engine, where is the power taken out? I didn't see a shaft anywhere

[@doug112244]

What kind of fuel consumption are we talking about here? Ok a little searching and some calculations put it above 3000 gallons/ hour if I did the calculation correctly.

[@HeadinTheClouts]

Could you explain, or point me to a video, about the horsepower rating of this engine? Is that what is available to the PT? How much is left over after the turbine extracts what it needs to turn the compressor?

[@AgentJayZ]

Mad? no.. I would say incredulous, especially so after your second comment. Uh... I think you missed the point of my first answer. Because you seem to have trouble with that, I'll explain. I don't mind answering your questions, but I like to see that you might have lifted one finger in an effort to find the answer yourself first. Take it easy !

[@chavenger]

@agentjayz i work for precision cast parts in the us, my team works on the forward piece of this engine, to us its called an 8287, we also do a part on that called the 20380. I seen another video where one of your guys polished that entire part (8287), that must of sucked lol when we cast those things there not pretty. We put a ton of work into them to meet the surface requirements of the customers. To be honest compared to the other parts we make from inco that part is turd, the stainless steel is not fun to grind. I'm a grinder, my job in a nutshell is to grind out the defects from fpi, prep them for the welders, blend the welds and all the visual defects. My question to you is how often is that part replaced? Is it a quality part?We do a fair amount of that part every year. Most of us really dont like the part but it helps pay the bills. Its cool to see the parts we make in action. I love your channel and its given me a much better perspective on these engines and it has helped me gain more knowledge towards my career at pcc. Keep up the good work, hope to hear from you. Cheers.....Charlie

[@AgentJayZ]

+charles mccarty If you are talking about the front frame, then it is a very expensive part that has a very long life. It is one of those things that lasts as long as the engine does. I have never heard of one being replaced. Once it has been final-machined, it provides the location of the front main bearing, and as I've mentioned before, even at full overhaul, there is no grinding, shimming, or adjustment of any kind to these machined locating surfaces. If you guys cast this part, then you are the only ones who can make it. If GE needs one, they call you, right? Cool to hear from you!

[@chavenger]

+AgentJayZ we've been making this part for a long long time. Infact one of your vids i seen the hub struts and od panel was all welded together, asked one of the engineers about it he said thats how they use to do them back in the day, now we cast it as one piece. We put a ton of work into this part, because its casted in open air its pretty dirty. The manifold is the worst, its not easy to get into the corners and pockets. GE or somebody else does the machining, they really look cool after there machined. We had one with cracks in the machine stock sent back to us a few months ago. When they leave us there in a sand blasted state, do you know if they do any chemical treatments or something of that nature to the oarts before there assembled?

[@892guns]

Since you guys where using liquid propane I think this is the most appropriate time to ask this question. Can you use diesel fuel in a turbine engine. I know it can work the other way around, using jet fuel in a diesel engine. (We use Jet A1 in our trucks at work)

[@AgentJayZ]

We run the engines on gaseous propane. Diesel fuel is an acceptable alternative fuel for liquid fuelled turbine engines. No modification is required.

[@AgentJayZ]

... it's not enough that I burned my arm for you ??

[@slamdvw]

Park it in front of a windmill... (power turbine). AJZ has a video on power turbines.

[@judsonkr]

I think he is talking about the water-wash nozzles.

[@AgentJayZ]

Dude... it took me 14 seconds to find you a manual for sale. It took me longer to write this reply. I cut n pasted your engine into yahoo, and up came a hit for a manual for sale at Essco Aircraft. You'll find it...

[@doug112244]

What kind of fuel consumption are we talking about here?

[@jhyland87]

You missed a chance for some build up at 0:28... Some intense music, slow motion... Maybe a fog machine... Then the "dun DUN dun DUNNNnNnNnn!" To top it off...

[@judsonkr]

Maybe he was referring to the P2 sensor?

[@alfredodorado2821]

Marine turbine=Big Power

[@Migueldeservantes]

I want one of them for a Key chain!

[@isaaclubow1849]

Do the sprags in the starter get hot if the engine runs for a long period? Or is it somehow disengaged once the engine spins up?

[@AgentJayZ]

+Isaac Lubow 1) no. 2) yes. They are weighted so that at about 3500 rpm they move away from the driven shaft due to centrifugal (centripetal) forces.

[@mnymj]

every time you showed the compressor it was not spinning why?

[@jimc4731]

Where is the output shaft of this engine? JIM

[@AgentJayZ]

There are two general versions of the LM2500: with an integral power turbine, and without. This engine is the latter. It is a gas generator, which needs to have it's gaseous outlet connected to a separate power turbine, which converts the energy of a flowing stream of gases into mechanical torque. I have made a few videos on power turbines.

[@3800TURBO]

Why aren't the turbine blades moving?