(AH) Ep. 6 The Origins of the Muscle Car

[@davidwright4537]

I have mention this before, but I must restate: as a 61 year old student of the auto industry, having restored more cars than I will admit (to my wife), you are amazingly accurate. You appear too young to have accumulated this amount of knowledge, but apparently you have. Great work, I truly enjoy your posts. PS: your humor is spot-on.

[@ironcladranchandforge7292]

What Ford did to the Mustang in the mid 1970's should have been a crime.......

[@mylanmiller9656]

What Ford did to the Mustang in 1971 was a real crime, They took a pony car and made it into a poo wagon!

[@sirtrently77]

Oh, puh-lease. It was a crime, they just bought out the judge, jury, sheriff, deputy, lawyers, lawmakers, and witnesses. Did the same thing in the case of the SUV Mustang of today and the Thunderbird sedan (with suicide rear doors) in 1967!

[@lorettamoran125]

What happened to the buik

[@Historybuff_769]

The mach-E should be a crime it looks like a coupe suv it's absolutely disappointing as a suv it's nice, but not with the Mustang badge. I'd rather an electric bronco...

[@Bonanzaking]

@@mylanmiller9656 the 71-73 kinda aged well. They got big enough to be comfortable driving today and not feel like a sardine once you get old enough to have a beer gut.

[@tacticalmattfoley]

John DeLorean, Lee Iacocca and Carol Shelby were the three main icons who brought us muscle cars. I would bet DeLorean had a hand in the word “muscle car”.

[@1badhaircut]

DeLorean created THE GTO - 1st MUSCLECAR.

[@BuzzLOLOL]

Muscle cars started with little 1936 Buick coupe with big 320" OHV straight 8... next was '49 Olds Super 88 with little Chevy body and big V8 engine from '98'... those took over NASCAR from Hudson...

[@Applecompuser]

@@1badhaircut Agree.

[@therealimnotjiminy]

@@1badhaircut Not the first muscle car.

[@therealimnotjiminy]

@@BuzzLOLOL "Muscle cars started with little 1936 Buick coupe with big 320" OHV straight 8" LOL Wrong.

[@davebeckley2584]

I grew up in the muscle car era purchasing my first car, a 1957 Bel Aire with a 265 ci v8 that had been rebuilt three times before I got it. After several other Chevys, I finally bought a 1965 Impala with a 396 ci L78 producing 425 hp. This car had no badging other than the raised flags on the front fenders. It was a true sleeper. I can't say that I ever heard anyone use the term 'supercar' during that period. 'Hotrod', a throwback to the 1950s was still in vogue with nearly everyone I knew and that was a pretty large group that raced both on drag strips and, unwisely, on the streets. Did muscle cars become a thing in 1964? I assume you refer to the period when the manufacturers deliberately built cars aimed at putting high horsepower engines in lightweight bodies. In 1959 Chrysler had a 375 hp created in a 413 ci v8 while Chevy produced a 283 ci v8 that delivered 283 hp with fuel injection in 1957. This was the first engine to achieve the goal of one horsepower per cubic inch displacement. I like your videos except for the fact that they remind me of how old I am to have first-hand knowledge of some of the historical accounts you present.

[@MickeyMousePark]

my second car was a 1968 Chevy Chevelle Malibu 327 (after i did a rebuild and some tampering it was at 300HP)..my buddy had a 1966 Chevelle with a 396, racing trans, 411 rear end, headers with cut-outs obviously not stock...like your 1965 Impala it looked like a stock car from the outside..We also were constantly trying to get the weight to power ration down... on the other side my sister had a 1967 Impala... 2 other buddies had 1966 Impala and a 1964 Impala (terrible design with a split drive line) all stock but were not "muscle cars" The main problem we had at the time was trying to get decent handling they were amazing going in a straight line.. This was in the mid 1970's few "muscle cars" i saw were stock..also some manufactures lied about their HP to reduce insurance issues or put back seats in that were virtually unusable that way would not be classified as 2 seater sports car... Like you i did not hear the term "super car" other than the Plymouth Super Bird etc..but muscle cars were common term by the mid 1970's My comment is not all directed at you some is just for general knowledge...

[@Applecompuser]

The Muscle Car began when John DeLorean (Yes. That DeLorean.) tweaked a Pontiac Lemans so it could compete with the Ford Mustang. This was around 1964. In 1968, the Pontiac GTO was top of the heap and named Motor Trend Car of the Year. (FYI A Pony car is the smaller of these cars while a muscle care *must be* around 1964 to about 1972 *and* must have a big block v8. The Arab Oil Embargo of 1973 was the beginning of the end with the catalytic converter putting the final nail in the coffin. To me these cars are beautiful. They are fast (my 71 1/2 Camaro could smoke much rubber even when starting from 40 MPH) tho handling and safety were not their forte. I'd rather have my modern handling, traction control and airbags, but I miss the styling, and the sound.

[@davebeckley2584]

@@Applecompuser You may be right as far as the beginning of the muscle car era. I was a bit young then but I was in to George Barris's crazy car designs. I do miss the deep-throated window-rattling exhaust rumble of a big block GM. The hypercars today are simply too high-pitched and whiny. And I do remember the end of the muscle cars thanks to Jimmy Carter. I bought a new El Camino SS in 1976. It had a 350 ci with a lousy 165 hp. Mom bought her first new car in 1980, a Camero with the disastrous 305 @ 155hp. She let me drive it once. In an attempt to spin the rears (smoke was right out) I stomped the gas on a left turn, the car slide on a small patch of ice, skidded into the curb destroying the right rear wheel and tire but worse, the left motor mount broke letting the engine cock up on the left side jamming the throttle linkage wide open which sent the car wildly down the street until I got it to shut off in our neighbor's front yard. Chevy had a recall. They chained the engine to the frame. There, fixed. I miss the '60s, early '70s full size 2 door family cars with 425 hp.

[@jeffallen6191]

The resultant "supercar" phrase comes from a european doing computer research and coming to conclusions based on what google tells him as opposed to actually having been there

[@BuzzLOLOL]

'57 Chrysler 392" Hemi was 375 HP with dual quads, 390 HP with EFI... '55 Chrysler 354" Hemi was 355 HP so first to 1 HP/cubic inch... The FI 283" eventually went to 290 HP... The FI 327" eventually 375 HP... The little '38 Buick coupe with 320" OHV straight 8 about first 'muscle car'... one comes to local cruises... Also, '49 Olds '88' with OHV 303" V8 and which used the smaller Chevy body (also used for Olds '76' flathead 6 cars) but with engine from the full sized '98'... these ruled NASCAR '53 - '55... taking over from earlier Hudsons with big flathead 6, twin carb.s, special camshaft, low light unibody...

[@aussieausdeutschland4245]

The Muscle Car Scene wasn't just exclusive to the USA, Australia also had their own version of the Muscle car.... Holden Monaro GTS, and SS, Torana GTR XU1 and SLR5000 n SS as well the Commodore SS, Leyland(YES LEYLAND) P76 Targa Flioro, Chrysler Valiant Pacer & Charger RT. Then there's the Ford Falcon GT, XR6 Turbo and XR8 and F6 Turbo.

[@jamesslick4790]

Yep!

[@volkswagenk7017]

Argentina, Brazil and South Africa count too

[@jamesslick4790]

@@volkswagenk7017 Yep!

[@garrisonnichols7372]

Cool Mad Max interceptor was a 73 Ford Falcon XB GT 351 V8

[@aussieausdeutschland4245]

@@volkswagenk7017 definitely, those little Opalas and V8 Mavericks from South America, as well as Basil Green's Perana program with Fords and GMs Holden 308 powered Chevy Ferenza in South Africa.

[@zachmcfarland5397]

What about the Hudson hornet it dominated racing in the early fifties

[@rittertv4375]

It was a six cylinder.

[@aussieausdeutschland4245]

@@rittertv4375 AND???? GM Holden, Chrysler Australia and Ford Australia would be saying this to you🖕🏻 Holden Torana GTR XUI giant killing V8 eating 6 cylinder Chrysler Charger RT, 6 cylinder V8 eater Ford Cortina XLE 6 cylinder, again a V8 eater. So all Aussies n Kiwis would tell you to get stuffed while kicking ya head in...

[@rittertv4375]

@@aussieausdeutschland4245 the debate is about what is the first muscle car. I was not saying six cylinder engines are bad but that the hudson hornet is not considered a muscle car because most people only consider v8's as muscle cars.

[@randylucas2458]

@@rittertv4375 the Hudson hornet had a straight 8 was beat by the 53 Buick special which also had a straight 8 that was the last car to have a straight 8

[@jamesslick4790]

The Hornet was a performance car, yes. But the definition of a "muscle car" is to take the engine normally used in a car makers largest bodied an put it in that same makers smaller body. Hudson only made 1 size of car. This is the same reason that a Ferrari is NOT a muscle car. Ferrari doesn't build a big sedan that has an engine they put in their smaller coupes. This is also why a Corvette is also NOT a muscle car as it's not based on a mid size Chevy, It's on it's own platform.

[@profjohn9629]

1. A thing can exist before you have a special name for it. 2. I would argue that the first factory "muscle car" (compact body with the engine from its larger sibling) was the 1936 Buick Century, which had the smaller body of the Special, but was stuffed with the larger engine of the Roadmaster & Limited. The Century had a reputation of being one of the fastest cars of its day.

[@BuzzLOLOL]

Yes, the Buick OHV big straight 8 blew the flathead V8s away... as did the Chevy OHV 6...

[@crankychris2]

1937 Cord Supercharged--148.7mph timed trials ;))

[@the180degreerule3]

it's the fact it exists and awareness grows of its existence that makes the name for it

[@therealimnotjiminy]

"I would argue that the first factory "muscle car" (compact body with the engine from its larger sibling) was the 1936 Buick Century" And you would be wrong.

[@davidpowell3347]

"Century" referred to its reputation of being reliably able to achieve 100 mph on a straight road ? (Most cars back then couldn't)

[@bernardschmitt6389]

I’d like a video covering Australian muscle cars.

[@jamesslick4790]

Me too. Even though I am an American, I was always interested in Australian cars (actually, English, French and Australian cars are about the only "foreign" cars I've really been interested in, LOL)

[@bernardschmitt6389]

@@jamesslick4790 It’s a shame we never got many of those cool Aussie cars here. Other than the G8 and SS of course.

[@jamesslick4790]

@@bernardschmitt6389 👍👍

[@youtubecarspottersguide1]

falcon xb

[@shizuokaBLUES]

Last of the V8 interceptors. That’s all I know. So I agree, we need that video !! Otherwise it will simply be a overdone movie prop for most of us ignorant North Americans.

[@gilreeve4035]

Great video but it was somehow missed that the 426 Hemi was put into mid size Dodge and Plymouth models way back in 1964. Based on drag racing and NASCAR wins alone these were muscle cars!

[@craigbenz4835]

I always saw the Max Wedge cars as the first muscle cars.

[@ATinyPillow]

@@craigbenz4835 : My buddy raced them, he said those max wedge engines owned racing they were so fast. He also told me that they were one of the first to use beadlock on the rear tires because the engine torque was so intense they would spin the rear wheels literally off the rims. .

[@junkyardblaze189]

There was also a ford galaxy with a 427 in 64 or 65. Factory backed drag racing was really big then too! I know they had the ford thunderbolt but i think you could also option a galaxy 500 with the big block.

[@OrtadragoonX]

Issue with the 426 was the engine nearly doubled the price of the car. So those pre 67 Hemi cars are as rare as unicorns.

[@demetriopapadopoulus4237]

1967 Coronet then later Satellite.

[@drboze6781]

The Hamster was hamstrung by a hamster-sized budget.

[@AtomicReverend]

You forgot the 1957 Rambler Rebel... Which was the ambassador v8 tuned with solid lifters floor shift and what ever AMC called its limited slip rearend, this was wedged into the mid size economy Rambler, it was the fastest 4 seater in 1957 and even had a pretty wicked paint job for the 1950s. Edit: the 1957 Plymouth sports fury was also stupid fast for its day with an engine that was pretty much the same idea as the Rambler Rebel. It is the car in Christine Well depending on what scene you are watching sometimes it was a 57 sometimes it was a 58 and sometimes it was a belvedere but thats Hollywood.

[@jamesslick4790]

Yes, the Rambler Rebel certainly qualifies as a "muscle car" It follows the formula of biggest engine in the smallest body. The Plymouth Sport Fury (and it's upscale cousin the original Chrysler 300) While absolute monster performance cars of the day are not usually classed as "muscle cars" as in the 50s Plymouth and Chrysler only made 1 body size in there lines.The Rambler does as it's engine was from a (modestly larger),to be sure) but still larger Ambassador. PS: I once read that a 57 Rebel could smoke a non FI 57 Corvette!

[@mylanmiller9656]

The Car in the Movie Christine was a fake, it was supposed to be a Fury. The 1957 and 58 Fury was only available in one Color Choice, that was White with gold trim. Holley Wood made up a Resale red Belvedere with Fury trim!

[@Applecompuser]

Don't embarrass yourself. Look into the history of Trans Am racing (SCCA) and you will get a better idea about the topic.

[@mylanmiller9656]

@@Applecompuser Let us in on your secret as to what your talking about, so we can al laugh at you!

[@Applecompuser]

@@mylanmiller9656 Look into it brother before you dismiss with contempt.

[@toby319]

I love this channel, can you do an episode on 90s-00s Japanese sports cars?

[@itsyoboiivan3255]

No

[@jepp6419]

@@itsyoboiivan3255 y

[@itsyoboiivan3255]

@@jepp6419 idk

[@huatseng6037]

Yeah I would like to hear his commentary and discussion ahout it! Those are the cars I grew up with being in east asia

[@skaldlouiscyphre2453]

More generically, it would be interesting to see a video on the origins of the sports compact car. Cars like the Celica and Capri applied the Mustang/Camaro formula to local smaller platforms, and then the cost of fuel rising caused these mini-pony cars to take over the niche ponycars once enjoyed in America as well. Until the kids stopped caring about sporty cars.

[@mylanmiller9656]

I would have to say the 1966 Fairlane 427 had enough power to be a Muscle car!

[@corymcgrath5652]

My first job was being a gas Jockey. Early 1990'S . The station I worked at was one of the rare and last ones that still sold "regular" fuel. Long story short, Canada allowed for "conversion" time. The result was I filled up some really nice classic cars, and a few welding guys with their portable welding machine trucks. They were "regular" customers. Mid 90'S regular leaded was finally faded out coast to coast.

[@P_RO_]

The third gas station I worked at was a hot-rodder's mecca because we had 105 octane leaded or higher- the manager refused delivery of anything less than 105 and I've seen some 115 octane delivery tickets. Was 1979 IIRC. When leaded premium went away so did the old muscle cars because they all had high-compression engines requiring it.

[@rodclark669]

In 1961 plymouth offered the 413 cubic inch engine with 375 horses, and so did Dodge. Ford offered the Fairlane with 390 c.i. and 401 hp, chevy offered in 1961 an impala with a 409 c.i. engine with 360 hp, pontiac with a 405 hp 421 c.i. engine 1n 1962. I don't give Mr. DeLorean and the GTO credit as the first musclecar but it was a sales winner.

[@coadmiller5010]

Mylan Miller... No relation (to the best of my knowledge)... Mussel cars?!?... Sheesh!..

[@therealimnotjiminy]

Only the Plymouth and Dodges are muscle cars. They others are full size cars.

[@BoostedLSA13]

@@therealimnotjiminyfalse

[@therealimnotjiminy]

@@BoostedLSA13 So you don't know the definition of a Muscle Car. Good to know. I wouldn't go spreading your ignorance all over the internet.

[@BoostedLSA13]

@@therealimnotjiminy shut up I see you on multiple comments sounding crazy. Your just a mopar fan girl spreading lies

[@jaycarlson927]

You make these so entertaining. Great work and i love how you keep these shorter

[@glennso47]

The cubic capacity might also determine if the car could be a police interceptor :-)

[@superbird4351]

The 1961 Impala 409 is just sitting in corner crying.

[@bossfan49]

So Pony Car video and Muscle Car video...no mention of the Pontiac Firebird, AMC Javelin, AMC Rebel, Mercury Cougar...

[@fredherfst8148]

Dodge Swinger

[@mpetersen6]

67 and 68 Rambler American could be had with a 343.

[@therealimnotjiminy]

Literally none of those cars are muscle cars.

[@jamesford2942]

I know most of this stuff but you make quite an entertaining and flippant commentary which makes my day.

[@ErikvanB]

I love the muscle party doorman bit

[@geoffreybradford]

Maybe you're a poet but didn't know it. Anyway, fun memory from high school: my friend becomes of age to drive, and gets his mom's old station wagon when she upgrades. What mom didn't know, but my friend did, was "mom's old station wagon" had a helluva big engine and her son was burning rubber in the parking lot every afternoon leaving school. I discovered years later, he became a city cop!

[@edwardrobertson2958]

I once bought a 1968 Chevy Chevelle4 SS 396 for $750 having talked 'em down from a grand. I sure wish I would have kept it.

[@las3k91]

First muscle car - simple, cheap chassis with big engine but no comfort features - was 1912 Stutz Bearcat.

[@StephiSensei26]

Where would you class the "Pontiac Firebird"? And please don't forget the "TransAm"! THX

[@patchescessna7348]

I grew up in the So Calif car culture and until 1964-1965 guys got hp by working (ex) on their 265/283 Chevys and Ford flatties. Yeah, There were a few hemis and big engine Fords floating around but were Gran Pa styled rides and Chevys 348 didn’t count except for the early 60’s Chevy 409.... Maybe it was the music or something but the 64 GTO was the beginning awareness of the big engine/mid size frame mind set but nobody called them muscle cars. The odd thing in my school? By 66 guys who had money but no idea what a cam was were buying 396SS, 442 and Goats. Meanwhile the Hippys were in their bugs, Surfers in their woodies and the low riders in their earth movers... Fast cars, great music, hip huggers/crop tops on the girls...Whatta time to start growing up...😁

[@BuzzLOLOL]

The GTO was a low priced family car that moved like nothing most people had ever driven before! It and the 442 owned the stoplight to stoplight: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iXusg5yqgLaMqK8

[@jons.6216]

Mercury Cougars had the toned down changes in them post 1970 as well!

[@MustangGuru]

Back in 74 you could pick up a HEMI CUDA , etc. for less than $1000

[@nephetula]

Tell me about it! Sold my '68 Charger R/T for $400 when the gas crisis hit in 1973 - 1975. Gas prices almost doubled, so the cars that got under 10 mpg became something almost nobody wanted.

[@abbeyhall4624]

Nice work Ed, a great little study of the muscle car phenomenon.

[@monkmchorning]

In my memory, the muscle car concept grew out of the Super Stock (S/S) and Factory Experimental (F/X) classes in NHRA drag racing. The emphasis in straight-line acceleration and the domination of the downsized '62 Plymouths and Dodges in S/S gave rise to the concept of putting full-size V8s in intermediate-size Fairlanes, Chevelles, and Tempests. Basically, the '64 Pontiac GTO was the first factory-built FX racer in street trim.

[@therealimnotjiminy]

Correct. The first muscle cars were the Dodge and Plymouth 413 cars.

[@Tayd0g]

Some people also argue that the original Ford V8 coupes in the 30s that the moonshiners started nascar with were the first muscle cars. I personally see the 1949 Olds 88 as the first one tho.

[@therealimnotjiminy]

Those people would be wrong.

[@jamesslick4790]

The 1960s Pontiac GTO, 1940s Olds 88 and 1930s Buick Century all were the SAME concept: Biggest engine in the smallest body. So, The 1936 Buick was GMs first "Muscle Car". GM just slid the concept down the "price ladder" over time: Buick>Oldsmobile>Pontiac... so that by the 1960s It was the "perfect storm". A "kid" would not have "Buick money" but he COULD have "Pontiac money", And thus a legend was born.

[@therealimnotjiminy]

Nothing you said is true.

[@jamesslick4790]

Read some US car history. Not everything stared in the 1960s ​@therealimnotjiminy

[@therealimnotjiminy]

@@jamesslick4790 Not everything, but muscle cars did.

[@jamesslick4790]

Nope, but I give up.

[@nicholasagnew2792]

if a muscle car has to look like a 60's car than the first one was the 413 powered Dodge Polara/Plymouth Savoy....Chrysler, late to the party? lol

[@BuzzLOLOL]

Oh yes... '65 Satellite 426 wedge... looker and goer... and cheap!

[@mylanmiller9656]

@@BuzzLOLOL Remember the GTO was a GM product, they show up 2 years late and call them self-first. Like Chevy did in 1957 with the 283 FI one hp per CI,, They forgot that the Crysler 300 had 1 hp for one plus one in 1955. Chevy 283 had 283 hp- Chrysler 354 had 355 hp in 1955.

[@therealimnotjiminy]

Correct. The guy's an idiot.

[@mattw8332]

Road Runner Road Runner, Going faster miles an hour...

[@KyrosTheWolf]

The mid 70s charger wasn't a charger, it was a 'stroller' (it was also just a rebadged chrysler cordoba)

[@BuzzLOLOL]

LOL !...

[@dandrane1251]

"SS" didn't always indicate a muscle Chevelle. In '64 and '65 they were available with six-cylinders and small-block V-8s.

[@CLT77664]

YES!! Correct!! The "SS" on these early Chevelles was a sporty appearance package that included bucket seats, console and floor shift, and pretty wheel covers! A friend had one... hers had the straight-6 engine and a TWO-SPEED automatic transmission!! You're not going to win any races with THAT drivetrain! But, it still was pretty. Just a good idea to not go up against a GTO. Of course, you could option this car to get the fast engine.

[@dandrane1251]

@@CLT77664 From '66 to '70 they all came with a 396 (later 402) standard. Beginning in '71, the base engine was a 350.

[@therealimnotjiminy]

@@dandrane1251 Wrong.

[@marksantoro]

Just to let you know, the Buick Century of the 30's is considered the first Muscle car.

[@ojbarberena7090]

I share your videos on Facebook. I enjoy them very much. Cheers from Colombia South America

[@andyjwagner]

Also: 1972 California state law required automakers to only advertise with SAE Net horsepower ratings, instead of gross-that change led to a lot less lying about horsepower in ads and significantly lower numbers.

[@TheGarry2rs]

I am old enough to remember the 60’s. The first muscle car that I recall was the 1960 chevy 409. It was a hotrod you could order off of the car lot. You bought the cheapest, lightest two door coupe and optioned the 409 with two 4 barrel carbs. Instant sub-15 seconds 1/4 mile times… I am sure better than stock tire could have improved on those times, but the point is this was straight out of the dealership lot. There couldn’t have been much margin on these strip-down models. With in a year or so the auto companies caught on and built up-scale models using their biggest engines, and the muscle car era you talk about was born.

[@therealimnotjiminy]

No 409 car was a muscle car.

[@OldRadioMan]

I think that the Pontiac Trans Am of the late 1970s and 1980s should have been mentioned as it was at the time a ‘muscle car’ because it was the most muscle car a car could be with the emissions regulations of the time and also with the Smokey and the bandit movies using it as the car that the bandit drove and using in many stunts throughout the movies made the car recognizable and it sold pretty well, and the Pontiac firebirds of the late 1980s and very early 90s and some models of the Ford thunderbirds from the mid 80s and 90s (mostly the super coupe and turbo coupe models) being muscle cars could be argued.

[@bossfan49]

I agree. Definitely should have mentioned Pontiac Firebird along with Camaro. Also the Mercury Cougar, AMC Javelin.... probably a few more missing.

[@BuzzLOLOL]

Nope... those were 'pony cars'! I still have my '87: i.pinimg.com/originals/0a/6e/92/0a6e925d76ea7b8a50b40ef04eb7a4b5.jpg

[@BuzzLOLOL]

@@bossfan49 - Those are all 'pony cars'...

[@bossfan49]

@@BuzzLOLOL Well he didn't mention them in his Pony Car video either so I though he might drop their names here.

[@BuzzLOLOL]

@@bossfan49 - I thought Mustang II was best looking Mustang... had a '77 navy blue fastback... would have gotten it back after my nieces were done with it but I just didn't have room for it... so went to junkyard... couple hundred dollars in pistons & cam/lifters in the 302 of a Mustang II and it would move out strongly... still good MPG...

[@eddietucker3334]

The 1963 Studebaker Avanti R2 is sometimes considered the first true muscle car, followed closely by the GTO.

[@mpetersen6]

The Avanti wasn't cheap. And was built in pretty small numbers.

[@therealimnotjiminy]

No it isn't. Never. Not by anyone.

[@redram5150]

Galaxies weren’t considered muscle cars because they were in the full size segment. “Muscle cars” were mid size cars with larger displacement engines often sourced from full size vehicles. For instance, Ford offered a Galaxie in R-code designation with a dual quad 427 FE V8 and 4 speed manual, but it’s still wasn’t a “muscle car”.

[@patrickracer43]

The most ironic thing is that the Dodge Charger Daytona debuted at Talladega and the Ford Torino Talladega debuted at Daytona... Also, the Plymouth Superbird was made with the sole purpose of bringing Richard Petty back into the Chrysler fold

[@codwaw4733]

Actually some of the early ss models were esthetic sporty looking packages before they decided to load some performance into them the years after. This is what my dads 65 Chevy II SS was. Now he has a 350 in it but it came with the same engine as the grocery getter.

[@richpayton7162]

My best friend's dad brought home a brand new 1967 Coronet R/T with the 440 Magnum engine. He was an electronics engineer, so he modified a production aftermarket electronic ignition system, which gave the Dodge incredible horsepower and torque. This R/T was most likely the second fastest street legal car in town, The fastest being a Chrysler 300 hemi that was very rarely seen about town. Problem was the 14" "polyglass" bias tread tires, which fortunately never failed us or I probably would not be around to write this, and woefully insufficient drum brakes for the speeds the car was often run at, 130+ to 150+ MPH. While shooting the cruise one night we picked up 5 more people we knew, and headed west out of town toward the beach about 11 miles away. Before very long at all the speedometer was pegged at 150 MPH and still pulling slightly more. When there were some cars sighted ahead of us, had to slow down to 120 - 130 MPH which seemed like a crawl. I feel very lucky to have survived times like those considering the tires and brakes on the car. I should have asked Mr. Smith for details about his electronic ignition box for future reference. Without it the R/T was merely a very, very fast car. With the box in the circuit it was an obscenely fast car. Of course this performance could not have been achieved without the high octane gasoline it had to be fed with.

[@therealimnotjiminy]

LOL None of that happened.

[@JP-vf9yb]

An honorable mention would be the 62 Dodge and Plymouth B bodies with 426 cross ram setup. and also the race hemi around 64 which produced nearly 700hp.

[@branemadder]

I know this is an old video, but it is new to me. But, I thought I would correct one point, mostly because it annoys Chevy fan boys... Ahem... Early on, Chevy SS models were not necessarily performance models. The SS package was nothing more than a trim package and could even be had on the very pedestrian 6 cylinder models, but not on lower base level cars such as Biscayne. To decipher this you need to look into how car companies used to name their cars; totally different names for very similar cars of different trim content. For example a 1969 300 deluxe vs Malibu vs Chevelle.... Chevelle was the mid-level trim. It's interesting and very confusing, and all the big 3 did it to some extent.

[@mclaynebalzly1739]

If you’re going to talk muscle cars you have to acknowledge the studebaker avanti r3/lark Daytona/golden hawk of the early 60s they were all built and marketed by the same John delorean (worked for GM on the gto) under the new ceo Sherman Egbert. Egbert wanted to make a halo car that would revive his dying company, studebaker. So he teamed up with mucholloch which is now Paxton! And commissioned John delorean to make a light sporty car with a supercharged v8. Mr delorean came up with the avanti with a 289 ci centrifugal supercharger that made about 400hp this was the r3 model. These cars held the world speed record in 1964 at 173 mph. The same engine was used in the silver hawk, golden hawk and also the lark Daytona. These were all passenger cars with a big motor that all went like the clappers. They were the true beginnings of the muscle car but are never accredited too because of studebakers failed financial stability as a company.

[@therealimnotjiminy]

None of those are in any way muscle cars.

[@dannork1240]

I know you’re going to get 1,000 suggestions… but I gotta put my 2c in. I’d like to nominate the 56 Studebaker Golden Hawk as the first “muscle car” because they shoehorned the 352ci Packard V-8 into it, making nearly 400 foot-lbs of torque. But absolutely nobody at the time would have called it a “muscle car”…

[@P_RO_]

Full-sized car, but very aerodynamic and held the pure stock and modified stock speed records at Bonneville for many years into the "muscle car era".

[@lawrencesmith9702]

Dan Nork: I agree. The term "Muscle Car" should equate with ANY car with large amounts of H.P. & torque. Even a 1920's Doble could be considered a "Muscle Car"! The moniker "Muscle Car" should be clarified....when referring to the '64 GTO & other smaller bodied cars the expression SHOULD have been "Mid Sized Muscle Cars".

[@phitchr]

Love the episodes.

[@carlosa5416]

Was the roadrunner based on the coronet. I always loved the styling of the late 60s coroners. Did ford have an equivalent to it?

[@stampedex2]

It was

[@stampedex2]

The Ford galaxie would be the equivalent

[@jamesslick4790]

@@stampedex2 The Galaxie was a full size, The Dodge Coronet/ Plymouth Belvedere was a mid-size. The Fairlane / Torino would be Ford's "equivalent".

[@jamesslick4790]

Fairlane / Torino was Ford's mid sizer of the era

[@jamesslick4790]

The "Road Runner" was based on the Plymouth Belvedere. Coronet was a Dodge. But Heck, the Belvedere and Coronet were basically the same car.

[@jakethreesixty]

It's funny how the the first Rock N Roll song is about what people consider the first muscle car: Rocket 88

[@therealimnotjiminy]

Only ignorant people consider that to be the first muscle car.

[@SirTragain]

13:44 It became the Dodge Magnum which used the same body as the Chrysler Cordoba. (1) Dodge Magnum - KZbin

[@davidmunro3910]

It also became an embarrassing FWD hatch in the 80's OMG.

[@mpetersen6]

But the "rich Corinthian leather" was reserved for the Borado

[@Idelia412]

You seem to have forgotten the Chevrolet Biscayne 409 which came out in the 1960's. My friend had one of them, and they were made for strictly performance.

[@therealimnotjiminy]

Not a muscle car.

[@hotwire96]

In fairness to Chrysler, you could option the B Body cars from 1966 with the 426ci Hemi, and while this option wasn't not widely marketed (or purchased) at the time the cars fitted with these engines are true muscle cars. Chrysler then just pulled their socks up later in the decade to market these cars more effectively, creating new models (such as the GTX, Roadrunner), and proper 'muscle' trim levels like R/T to compete with models like the SS of rival brands.

[@kellyfehr3719]

I've seen a 50's DeSoto Convertible in pictures that was optioned with the 300C Hemi. One of the rarest cars going. But Chrysler also provided motors to French maker Facel. That was a great era. Just check the box and you can walk out with anything. Pontiac Super Duty, Fords dual Quad. Thunderbolts and Hemi Darts.

[@therealimnotjiminy]

Chrysler invented the muscle car in 1962 with the 413 cars.

[@jphoffman1]

I’d love to see you do an episode on the American hot rods of the 50s and 60s as they could be considered the true precursors to the more modern production muscle cars. A special look at the souped up cars of the American moonshine runners that helped give birth to modern NASCAR as well might be fun.

[@arko09]

At time index 9:45 - is that a "Mad Max" Ford Falcon in the background (black car, right side)?

[@matthewjones12181]

That 389 c.i. engine has its roots in the 1955 Stratostreak engine from the Star Chiefs. It was a 289 c.i., then bored out to a 317 c.i. in 1956. It was made to be a pure power engine!

[@thestevedoughtyshow27]

I had a 56 star chief with the Stratostreak and a b&m hydro.

[@iamgermane]

In the early '80s you could walk onto a used car lot in the USA and still find muscle cars! They were pretty beaten up by then but if you looked hard enough you could find one. They went for about $4K :)

[@glenfenderman]

There are many theories that define the first "muscle" engine. Duesenberg SJ in 1932 had a V12 engine that could go up to 120 MPH, The first Ford V8, the first Oldsmobile Rocket 88 in 1948, the first Cadillac V8, all the Chrysler hemi engines. Personally, I think the first engine that kicked the ass of ALL those engines was the 426 Superstock by Chrysler, introduced in 1963. That engine had to be discontinued in the regular factory cars because it was too damn powerful for the average car buyer! The 426 Superstock was too powerful on the street! It was meant for racing only!

[@chrisdebeyer1108]

Great series. Love your sense of humour... 😁

[@vobismaximus]

How about the ford fairlane thunderbolt In 1963

[@serga7486]

Something charming about these land boats

[@stvitalkid7981]

For a great engine start sound, watch that commercial for the 1970 Chevelle SS 396. It’s the one shot in the desert, in which the car’s admirers just show up out of nowhere to gaze upon it.

[@chaserivers4058]

I think it’s worth mentioning the last muscle car was the 87 Buick Grand National.... well maybe some of the newer “retro” “muscle” cars of the 2010s.

[@therealimnotjiminy]

No it wasn't. Muscle cars have big block engines.

[@chaserivers4058]

@@therealimnotjiminy I disagree with you and so does a lot of other car enthusiasts. Although many of the muscle cars of the 60’s had small displacement v8s too like chevy 327s, ford 302s, dodge 318s… any car with a straight 6… nope 👎🏽 but the GN was special.

[@therealimnotjiminy]

@@chaserivers4058 Who cares if you agree? You and your "lot of other car enthusiasts" being ignorant doesn't make me wrong. The Muscle Car era ended by 1972. Muscle cars are by definition: mid-sized cars with big block engines. Period. YOU don't get to change things to make yourself feel better. "Dodge 318s" GTFO That alone tells me you know NOTHING. "I disagree with you and so DO..." Learn grammar. You know what else is "special"? You. " I disagree with you and so does a lot of other car enthusiasts. Although many of the muscle cars of the 60’s had small displacement v8s too like chevy 327s, ford 302s, dodge 318s… any car with a straight 6… nope but the GN was special."

[@dannysdailys]

My first car was a 1967 Olds 442. While no one would dispute whether it was a muscle car or not because of it's big block rumble guts, my present ride isn't quite so clear. Today, I drive a 2018 Dodge Charger with the Pentastar V-6 in it. Why it's not so clear is the Charger stock puts out 300 hp vs the 442's 350. But today the Charger is supercharged and puts out roughly double the hp of the 442 at the same weight; (602 vs 350) and it's AWD. Who ever heard of an AWD Muscle car? But, it could eat up that 442 in reverse. And it can give a Hellcat a run for it's life. No one would dispute the Hellcat being a Muscle Car. The Charger has a weight to hp ratio of 6.6 lbs per hp where the 442 was closer to 13. I say the Charger is closer to a supercar than a muscle car, but it's certainly all muscle. And yes, at 602 hp it's quite a ride. The acceleration is so hard it'll pull your girls panties up. Assuming they were down. Of course they were down. LOL My toy car is a 2002 Chrysler Prowler. At a weight to hp ratio of 7.7, (300 hp at 2,200 lbs) it too is all muscle. But I don't think you'd call it a Muscle car. I ate a Lamborghini Contach with it so it is something. At 100 mph the Lambo was so far back I couldn't see it in the mirrors.

[@Anatoli50]

You mock my Cordoba! But it has rich Corinthian leather!

[@gabrielvieira6529]

Very Cool

[@donalddday7741]

got a 66 GTO in 1972 put a few hi pro parts on it (back then were actual cheap ) and got just under 500 HP

[@therealimnotjiminy]

No you didn't.

[@peterpiper831]

You mentioned the FIAT Multipla of the 1950's as the forerunner of the MPV. Have a look at the Stout Scarab of the 1930's, a really interesting vehicle.

[@Satellite383]

My brother had a 60 Plymouth with a cross Ram 413........Now that was MUSCLE !!

[@flipflopthong2]

Holden Australia used the roadrunner sound for its "Beep Beep Barina" ad in 1985. Barina was a rebadged Suzuki Swift then it became a rebadged Opel/Vauxhall Corsa then a rebadged Daewoo/Chevy Kalos.

[@chrismoody1342]

Your definition of muscle car is on point. More powwwwwr. 65’ 289cid Mustang ain’t it, it is a Pony Car. The term muscle car today has morphed into a mixed bag of cars.

[@Nderak]

the dodge charge of today is a better muscle car than the challenger

[@OrtadragoonX]

It really has. I personally consider a Mercedes SL65 AMG Black to be a muscle car. Big ass engine in front, drive to the back, enough torque to jump start a nuclear reactor, and it can’t go around a corner to save its life.

[@therealimnotjiminy]

@@Nderak Neither of those is a muscle car. "the dodge charge of today is a better muscle car than the challenger"

[@therealimnotjiminy]

@@OrtadragoonX And you're personally wrong.

[@OrtadragoonX]

@@therealimnotjiminy That’s what the muscle car formula was. Let’s take a mid-size coupe body and cram the biggest engine we have available in it and pray it never tries to take a corner or the driver is gonna go straight into the nearest tree. They weren’t sports cars. They were fairly pedestrian vehicles with insane engines in them. I happen to think it’s beautiful really. It’s like taking a 1980s Japanese compact truck and cramming a Windsor or a Small Block into the engine bay. It’s stupid but it’s hilariously fun.

[@toadamine]

62 dart? 62 Hemi 330/440/polara? what about a 53 corvette?

[@deltacx1059]

1:39 if you are getting it out of a show room It is effectively new so the prices are not horrible compared to how expensive new cars are.

[@mikehalgrimson2182]

i really enjoy your videos. that being said - the car you call a road runner at 10:49 is clearly a gtx (road runner doesn't have the side scoop) also not mentioned was AMC - (AMX, Rebel Machine, SC scrambler, Javelin) all very fast and well designed muscle cars.

[@darianthescorpion1132]

The mid and late 70s Dodge Charger was like that weird old man that lived down the street who went senile. 😂

[@thestevedoughtyshow27]

Ed, you are wrong about Cadillac, in 58 you could get a cross ram intake, I had a 1960 with a six pack. You also missed the 1953 Hudson Hornet with a super charged inline 6, it owned Nascar for 3 years. Mopar was where the fun was, the 340 small block was a fast motor, the 383 big block was a lot more power, then the RRB really big block 440, 350 hp, the hp 375 hp and the shaker 425 hp, oh to step down on a 440 and get set back into your seat. I won't even mention the 413 wedge or the 426 hemi.

[@demetriopapadopoulus4237]

Distilling it all down a muscle car basically is a large engine in a midsize car and never an automatic. The 442 sums it up : 4 bbl carb 4 speed trany and twin exhausts. The more stripped down the better. One of the first was the 1967 2 door sedan dodge coronet with a hemi 426---these cars are very sought after now--they can sell for half a million. These cars have to be macho no air conditioning dead before things like power windows or worse automatic transmissions.

[@bigbird9186]

Roadrunner are beautiful the droopsnoop one with wing

[@MrSteve280]

Agreed, no one used the term Muscle Car back then. Agreed, the GTO is as good as any for kicking off the male oriented youth market, much more so than the Mustang or anything before it. The car-themed music of the time and increasing popularity of drag (street) racing were equally important. But I believe all of this really took off because of money. For the first time in my observation, young men could afford a new car. Or a growing number of parents could afford to buy them a new car. By the late 1960s, high school parking lots where full of new or 1-2 year old muscle cars. I was from a relatively small town in the east when I graduated high school in 1970 and five guys started that school year with new 1969 Z28s. Two other guys bought new 1970 Chevelle SS 396s, another guy a Charger R/T all before the end of the year. There were some assorted 1970 6-banger Camaros and Dusters too. The parents were the dreaded co-signers on the loan, but the majority of these kids made the payments. For about a monthly payment of $130-$140, got you a new 1970 GTO (I know because that's what I was looking at). I settled on a used 1969 GTO (9k miles) because the payments were $94 on two-year loan and suited the take-home from my after-school job better. This wasn't happening ten years earlier, or ever five years earlier. By the time a Muscle Car was a couple years old, I'd guess 90% were below $2000 and many closer to $1500. 1964 to 1971 was a wild ride. Then it was over, killed by a lot of things but it still all ended up being about money. Almost like you flipped a light switch, soon no one was cruising, no one was street racing. By the mid-70s there were only a few hangers-on with old Cudas and Mustangs belching blue smoke and jacked-up on those silly looking Mickey Thompsons. Now classic Muscle cars are much too romanticized and wildly overpriced. Again with the money thing. I'm retied and am fortunate enough to be able to buy just about any classic Muscle Car I might want, which would be a '69 Camaro RS/SS 396, Dusk Blue with white interior, M21. But I want to drive it, like I did years ago. Not keep it out of the rain in my garage, buffing it endlessly with a cloth diaper and looking at it like some kind of decoration. Or sitting in a Burger King parking lot every summer Friday night with the other fat Boomers in umbrella chairs trying to recapture youthful memories and telling lies about the races the won while worrying about scratches and dings on my baby. Nope. Porsche Boxster might be nice though.

[@stratcat4450]

As far as the auto industries creation of the muscle car its 3 easy letters: GTO!

[@mylanmiller9656]

GTO was King right up to when it's first Competition Came out! By 1966 the GTO Was nothing but a after thought!

[@oldarkie3880]

Early Chevy Novas, Chevelles and impalas could be had with inline 6 and SS badging.,

[@Dev1nci]

10:10 everyone references Doug 😁😂

[@georgeursitti6549]

The 1958 Mercury was the first American car to have 400HP with it's 430 cu inch engine.

[@mylanmiller9656]

Your correct on the HP but a Merc was not mid size!

[@lawrencesmith9702]

Why does "Mid Size" matter at all? By this logic one could say the 1st MID SIZE muscle car was a '64 GTO....maybe. Why would you exclude autos with MUCH more power (& probably torque as well) just because it was in a 'full sized' car? There were NO mid sized American autos produced by the 'big 3' and yet you deny a mid-fifties car with 400 H.P. can't be considered a 'Muscle Car'??? So what about some '57 Ramblers that could be considered ''mid sized" and had engines with lots of H.P.?

[@therealimnotjiminy]

@@lawrencesmith9702 LOL

[@georgec2126]

I read once of the classic late 60s Dodge Charger that the aerodynamics were so bad that the front lifted at speed and the brakes were drums. No power steering, either. But with a 7-litre V8 it would pull 60mph in less than 8 seconds-and those headlamps! No wonder the Dukes had one...

[@colombianguy8194]

My favorite muscle car is the 69' charger. Seeing the 70's personal luxury version is funny and sad at the same time.

[@cheesygoodness5415]

Left out the 1964 Dodge Dart. 440cid, dual quads, cross ram. Very fast.

[@newerafrican]

I kinda teared up at the end. I graduated high school in ‘75 and by then the cars pretty much sucked in both performance and quality.

[@BuzzLOLOL]

Suckage started in 1971 with 'emissions slug' engines with low HP and horrible MPG... by '76 some engines became more efficient again... Pinto Pony, Iron Duke, Pontiac 301" V8...

[@MaxAC]

Not all SS models had a V8. You could get a Nova SS with a I6.

[@BuzzLOLOL]

But then it wasn't a muscle car... just an expensive economy car... 2021 full size Chevy trucks come with a 4 banger!

[@MaxAC]

@@BuzzLOLOL Exactly, and a 2021 Silverado isn't a muscle car either.

[@agenturawubekistanie]

Thats very informative, thank you :)

[@jenculegoogle2382]

Well i think you made à very Good job my friend very interesting from a french ( near Paris ) congrat

[@therealimnotjiminy]

Nearly all wrong. Bad information. Terribly researched.

[@jaegertiger384]

Either the cars they had.... Or they WANTED to have !!

[@genegoodwin8925]

I think the muscle cars started before the 1964 GTO. In 1960 Pontiac had the 421 CI with three two barrel carbs. Chrysler had their awesome 413 and later the 426. In 1962 Chevrolet had the 409 with two four barrel carbs. Ford in 1963 had their 427 powerhouse. These were all muscle cars. Before these there were cars with V-8 engines like the Hemi's Chrysler had in the 50's, Ford's 312 Thunderbird engine and Chevrolet's 283. But they didn't come near the horsepower of the 421, 409, or 427.

[@BuzzLOLOL]

Muscle cars are 2 door, mid size family cars, that can run 14's or better in quarter...

[@pyro-gliffix1738]

the 421 super duty of the early 60s was a 450hp beast

[@bradjbourgeois73]

I have a 2006 Toyota Matrix, and I describe my horn as the road runner... Meep Meep!

[@carlhawks2915]

56 Fury and 57 Bonneville have to be considered.

[@SCHMALLZZZ]

I forgot about the 56 Fury

[@therealimnotjiminy]

No they don't.

[@CaptHollister]

Don't want to be *that* guy, but the Chevelle SS could be had with a straight-6, they are fairly rare, but my dad had one these unicorns.

[@mopartron3030]

I think you covered it in your series on the Malaise era but most of the drop in HP in the early 1970s was due to change in the rating convention (gross to net); the lower compression ratios to run on unleaded gas did lower output but only by about 5-10%. After that it was mostly emissions reduction which hurt performance; engines were heavily detuned with milder camshafts, restrictive intake and exhausts and retarded ignition timing along with leaner air-fuel ratios. A perfect storm of terribleness if you will. On that note it's also incredibly easy to take a slow Malaise 1970s American engine and increase the power output by 2-3 TIMES just by removing some of the emissions equipment, freeing up the exhaust flow and adding a modern performance camshaft along with tuning the ignition timing and air/fuel. It's the way to go these days when you can't afford a "real" muscle car but want something old with a big torquey V8 and decent power.

[@ebwholesaler]

Good thing he didn't show Dodge Chargers from '80 to '87...