Ahn'Qiraj Rogue Loot Priority | Classic Wow

[@theodorthiele]

I wish someone did these kinds of videos for other classes. It's such a good view on loot.

[@pepsiman9812]

Love your content Zatar!! Always a joy watching your streams and vids, keep it up brother

[@Jathiel88]

Everything about Death’s Sting is great... except it’s drop rate :(

[@ripsonac]

Good stuff Zatar your videos are the most chilled yet most informative out there! Keep it up brother

[@azur3809]

i love how with almost every item he says "yeah its pre good but... darkmantle"

[@Sjady]

sims now are showing like a 1% dps increase with darkmantle for alliance dagger rogues... and thats when standing and hitting the same thing for 5 mins straight with no interruptions... the overhype is starting to come to an end now that ppl are actually thinking. shadowcraft 6p simmed way better than raid gear but in practice was shit. darkmantle sims SLIGHTLY better, i doubt it will be. not to mention its luck based, so you could have bad rng and lose a ton of dps

[@Sjady]

oh, i guess he has made some videos now explaining why its overrated :D gotta love all these guys hyped it up for 2 months to get a shitload of views and then now they claim its overrated to get more views :D meanwhile all the sheep rogues ran around all summer farming t0 and mats for a set they probably wont use :p

[@Zatar]

Couple things: Forgot to mention the legs, they in the tier with the cloaks, a small upgrade, but one that you will always equip. The darkmantle gear that you use will heavily depend on what other pieces you have, but the list in the video is relative to aq bis gear. Also, if you are a sword rogue, the tier head could be better for you to pick up over the shoulder because you will not use the darkmantle head in most situations, and the head is the better individual item. However, deathdealer shoulders are better relative to darkmantle, and are a safe tier piece to pick up, as you will never use darkmantle in that slot.

[@nicolajjessen9677]

Hey Zatar. So should i really replace my full t2, with 4p darkmantle :)?

[@denkerry91]

True, as a dagger rogue who has aged core gloves and boots of the shadow flame, both darkmantle gloves and boots is just dps loss for me.

[@Zatar]

@@nicolajjessen9677 4p darkmantle will do more damage.

[@Castle24]

Don't forget that shoulder slot tier in AQ40 takes lower rep than almost all the other pieces, and will likely come down to the token drop. It's why you see tons of Warriors with the shoulders almost immediately 1-2 weeks into progression.

[@Sheriffen17]

theres normalization in vanilla/classic so all 1 hand weaps gets nerfed down to a 2.4 weap when using abilities so the top dmg on ur sinister with cts vs the aq sword is basicly non existing.. u will how ever see more dmg on auto attacks and sword procs..

[@Zatar]

The attack power ratio for sinister strike is the same, but the increased weapon damage helps sinister.

[@harlzAU]

Good man, best to pass on Qiraji Execution Bracers and the Mantle of Wicked Revenge (and those trash items) for your furry feral druid :)

[@ElieZ]

I am currently working on my Darkmantle quests as a dagger rogue. I have done ZG but not MC/Ony yet. Would that still apply for me in these early stage? Darkmantle wrist, boot, chest, head, should stay till AQ gear and beyond? Thanks for addressing my noobness.

[@Zatar]

The set is amazing if you don't have mc/BWL/aq gear

[@jeffmassey5405]

My first set piece of Deathdealer's Helm which piece of Bloodfang should I drop to pick for up my 4th piece of Dark Mantle....i have Chest shoulders and Tunic DM? I'm daggers so gloves isn't a choice?

[@Zatar]

If you are missing bloodfang belt or wrist you can use a darkmantle in one of the missing slots. However if you have bloodfang chest, can actually completely take off your darkmantle. Spreadsheet show that the helmet alone is enough to break your darkmantle set

[@jeffmassey5405]

@@Zatar i have all my tier 2 and DM.... So drop DM and go tier 2 plus ACLG and DDhead BTW ty for your help

[@DJ_Treu]

YOUR loot prio may not be the same as your guilds loot prio though. Keep that factor in mind guys. like he says in the beginning theres alot of items that are good for multiple classes. AKA Dont cry when your main tank has equal prio on Deaths Sting if they dont have thunderfury yet and your guild forces them to pug to get their last binding for w.e reason it may be (group 2, Only person who needs it and does a pug run w people on alts, etc.)

[@NovaMay]

Imagine giving tank prio to death's sting kekw

[@Atrain0023]

Lost our first and prob only Death's sting to an offtank feelsbadman

[@mellowblossom4039]

Nihilian is that you??

[@user.4049]

Hahaha

[@Sanoskesagara]

So...that mace is actually interesting for PvE for a couple of reasons. Naxx trash frequently drops a very strong MH mace which not a lot of people horde side are interested. At that stage of the game, Seal Fate actually becomes *an option*. Is it the best option? No, probably not, but weapons are so scarce in this game that not having to fight over Cthun's Dagger, or naxx swords just strengthens the raid's overall gear-level. Also, it does have the perfect amount of weapon damage for Humans. Judging how well the ZG sword set is for fury prot, I could see this being a strong option as well for Fury Prots used with the Naxx trash drop MH mace.

[@Espedals]

What are the AP costs in relation to? Full T2?

[@57tigey]

Jom gabbar is a hunter trinket. You can't even use renataki's while jom gabbar is active. it puts renatakis on a 20 sec cool down.

[@ikki-alphabet2549]

what sim are you using ? the bloodmoon sim seems to suggest darkmantle set worse off the p4 bis no matter what combination i use. i also tested Gracia's sim. It suggests that darkmantle set goes as good as t2 bis. In the best case scenario, with the 4 pieces u recommended, 4dps out of 1100 better than t2 bis. However, any 1 t2.5 piece upgrade is 5dps-10dps+. Dont think its worth at all going darkmantle based on this number, unless there is something i missed ? ps: this is based off alliance player with king and zg buff. The Agi loss of darkmantle set is too huge to make up to

[@Zatar]

Alliance dudes don't have windfury too, so less procs. Its better for horde.

[@ikki-alphabet2549]

@@Zatar yea mate. alliance also actually use poison. the bis darkmantale will break the 3set t2 bonus, which is huge.

[@pepto200]

Thanks for this I'm Alliance and sword spec and if I don't need to spend all that gold to get darkmantle then I wont.

[@Dubbaroo]

I have simmed a few darkmantle sets and it seems that for daggers: cap, shoulders, wrist, and boots has the highest dps if the rest of the gear is t2 or better with aclg. That is for alliance, but I was wondering why you would want to replace the t2 chest piece when it is so good?

[@Zatar]

When I talked about darkmantle, I was comparing it to the AQ best in slot gear. The purpose was to avoid spending dkp or request items that you would not be using right away in favor of darkmantle. The darkmantle I mentioned is not the best setup Week 1 coming from Blackwing Lair gear, but rather the the pieces that will impact what AQ items you want.

[@Dubbaroo]

@@Zatar That makes a lot of sense. Thank you for the reply!

[@heytones7799]

T2 chest an t2 wrist is better then darkmantle. I thought u save up for best item anyways? Does Wearing best gear matter?

[@Zatar]

I'm confused what you mean, individually tier 2 chest and wrist are better than darkmantle wrist and bracers, but the four set bonus can make up for the difference in stats depending on the other pieces of darkmantle you use. Eventually, yes" you want the best in slot items which do not include darkmantle, but come aq bloodfang chest is not better than the AQ tier chest.

[@betomh2]

So you want to have the 4 set of Dark Mantle with the pieces you mention and the rest slots would be the ones from the Bloodfang set?

[@Zatar]

When you first get darkmantle, you are going to have to figure out which ones are going to be best for you based on which items you have already from phase 4. That darkmantle list is the best items compared to the AQ alternative, and it's most useful for figuring out which AQ items are most valuable.

[@inflames8019]

Darkmantle is really really good early in P5 but you're going to replace it with Deathdealer anyway.. is it really worth doing all the t0 instances again and spend like 1000G on gear that you're going to replace anyway? that's up to you i guess... also keep in mind when p6 comes out.. you propably won't get any T3 in the first couple weeks / Months because Warrior Prio. I'd say if you have a solid raid , most of the T2 Set pieces and plenty of other games to play don't even bother with Darkmantle... it is however a very good set to get for newcomers.

[@mattd582]

Zatar, does the Dark Mantle proc better if your guild has slow clear time or big clear time? If we kill fast seem like it add much RNG to damage. Also, as someone that does not really get world buffs and consumes isnt gear wasted on you? :) smile

[@Zatar]

Technically, the shorter the fight, the higher percentage of a fight you will have blade flurry uptime, which will increase the number of ShadowCraft procs you will get. At the same time, the shorter a fight, the more powerful adrenaline rush is, and ShadowCraft procs do not scale with adrenaline rush at all, whereas regular gear would. Overall I think it's certainly is more volatile and short fights, and more consistent in longer fights where the procs will even out. Also, I'll have you know that my recent broodlord parses have been so high they bugged out Warcraft logs.

[@mattd582]

@@Zatar Thanks for the reply. Glad Natalia didnt tilt you too much tonight

[@mikem2239]

Thing is. Darkmantle really isn’t as good as you think it is. Have been testing quite frequently and the proc rate just doesn’t compare to that of standard raid loot with stats.

[@miyelleSEJI]

Zatar, I only ever got 4/8 shadowcraft (I leveled slowly so by the time I hit 60 I pretty much went straight into raid and got a shit ton of tier 1 right at the start). I really would hate to have to go back and farm for the rest of shadowcraft (not to mention all of the mats required to upgrade to darkmantle)... on a scale of 1 to 10, how important is it to get darkmantle? can I just skirt by picking up the normal tier 2.5 stuff that drops and still be able to compete with other rogues using it? Thanks :)

[@Zatar]

For me personally I would honestly say 10. I have not had the best Blackwing lair luck, so I am immediately going to get huge damage upgrade using the set. I won't be sacrificing any stats and I'll gain the 4 set bonus. I will also continue to use the four set until I have literally gotten every single piece AQ gear that occupies those eight slots, which I expect will take a long time. Does the reasons for me I think it is really important. Depends on your situation though

[@jasontopp1043]

Darkmantle will be on par with AQ tier gear and will be a great gear catch up

[@phillewee]

Zatar i have a question im dagger rogue but missing both ACLG , Shadowflame boots & Band of Accuria i do though have full 8/8 T2 Is it better setup to go full t2 as dagger until i have at least ACLG ? or should i stick with T1 Shoulder & Gloves instead ?

[@Zatar]

T2 probably better for now.

[@RenonTTV]

It's only like 5 dps less than the clownsuit

[@vill9739]

Based on the content coming out, would it be best to gear for daggers or swords? I'm a bigger PVP guy and am trying to get more serious into Raiding. Any sort of advice would be greatly appreciated. I don't really know much revolving around swords.

[@Zatar]

Both are really good. On paper, daggers will do more damage especially if you can get death's sting. However, swords have an easier time cleaving with blade flurry. Both are going to be good in AQ.

[@vill9739]

@@Zatar Thanks for the response. I'm next in line for thunderfury, already have the mats and just need the binding. Obviously the binding is up to luck, but with this in mind, would it be best for me to spec into combat swords on the off chance i can find a way to use thunderfury in raids? Whether that be swapping it in after a threat vanish etc? Thunderfury is primarily for pvp but in mind if i could use it in raids too that'd be cool. I just dont want to gear the wrong way since my guild wants me to lock in as either swords or daggers with dkp... Any advice would be great.

[@Zatar]

If you are human, thunderfury is actually the best off hand. If not it's still top 2 right now. I personally would use thunderfury if I was getting it. Just play what you want.

[@vill9739]

@@Zatar Gotcha, and yeah i'm human. This is my last question, appreciate your insight. It's hard to find any good Rogue Thunderfury information... How would thunderfury perform in raiding if i am combat daggers with Perds in the MH? I guess my question at this point is, would it do better as an offhand in combat dagger spec, or would it do better as an off hand in combat sword spec with CTS as the main hand? Thanks again!

[@Zatar]

Because of how the weapons spec talents work, it would be better to use two swords or two daggers. As human getting a thunderfury, I think it would make sense to go swords.

[@drfirenugz2641]

Rogue as well here. Got the Mace off first boss in BWL, that off hand Mace is item im looking most forward too solely for the meme spec!!!! Lol, good video though .

[@rightdamask8705]

What is dap?

[@rightdamask8705]

He says spending it... im confused

[@Zatar]

Dkp is a point system some guilds use. You can Google it for full definition, but basically you get points for raiding and spend them on gear.

[@Flowres-]

very cool, thank you!

[@DrisTheRavage]

do you need all 8 T0 to get the T0.5 pieces?

[@Zatar]

I believe you can start the chain without all eight pieces but you have to follow a specific order in which you upgrade the pieces oh, so there comes a point where you can't keep doing the chain if you don't have the next ShadowCraft piece. Also some of the good pieces are at the very end.

[@sofor1]

HEy Zatar, so are you going for 5piece T2.5 or sticking with Darkmantle 4piece?

[@Zatar]

Because I am mainly a PVP player, I'm going to try and get tier 2.5 since darkmantle sucks in PvP, and tier 2.5 is amazing. I am still going to get dark mantle, and will use it in PVE for a very long time. I will likely still be in darkmantle by the time naxx arrives.

[@Bouwtje]

@@Zatar Hello Zatar, When I look up Dagger rogue BiS for AQ40 I only see posts of deathdealers and not darkmantle. How is it that darkmantle is better? It's mostly dependant on how often it will proc right? (First time WoW player here, don't hate if I say anything stupid :D )

[@Zatar]

In classic Shadowcraft was much better than private server. So pretty much every guide written based on private server will underrate darkmantle. You have to check for more recent videos and guides.

[@Zatar]

In classic Shadowcraft was much better than private server. So pretty much every guide written based on private server will underrate darkmantle. You have to check for more recent videos and guides.

[@Bouwtje]

@@Zatar Allright cool, know anything about the proc chance of the (4) set?

[@Brumsey99989]

Wrong about dark mantle. It’s better for swords, and the 2.5 helm (a fast get) is enough to make p4 bis better than dark mantle for daggers. It’s pretty much fresh 60 catch up gear. Looks cool, but better off saving your gold for idols if you’re in it for the deeps.

[@Zatar]

3 months ago that was the common knowledge, but funny you mention that since I have made multiple darkmantle videos since on how my opinion has changed.

[@Brumsey99989]

Zatar I’ll have to subscribe then!

[@yeee321]

Dark mantle is only around a 20 dps increase from full t2, not sure if its really worth it, its an increase but its like going from a royal seal to a drake fang talisman, yeah the 56 AP is cool but who wants to use t0.5 over t2 that just seems regressive

[@MitchellEdelman]

Yea but you can easily farm t.5 and not compete on loot with other classes like Fury warriors and Ferals that don't have that option. In general a good LC will give you prio on other upgrades if you don't need a full tier set. You will get weapons and trinkets faster if you don't need 4 armor pieces.

[@MitchellEdelman]

Last i checked it was around 800g and a few dungeons run assuming you have the shadowcraft set already. I know for some that is expensive, but all the items are farmable outside of a raid which makes them far easier to get than a full tiers set from AQ.

[@yeee321]

@@MitchellEdelman 800g for a 20 dps increase yikessssssss

[@MitchellEdelman]

@@yeee321 It's 800g, but can be completed week 1 of the raid, potentially before the gates even open. That is a massive help to the guild. It's far greater than a 20 dps increase if you compare it against BWL BiS which it will be replacing.

[@yeee321]

@@MitchellEdelman no its only around 15 to 20 dps compared to t2 if you look at sim sheets, its really not worth it, most people will be wearing full t2 until they get deathdealers

[@xabun]

how are chances to get any of those when you not playing in a guild?

[@Zatar]

If you are not playing in a guild, the video really only could help you decide which items to soft reserve if you do those kinds of runs.

[@xabun]

@@Zatar what does soft reserve mean

[@Zatar]

If you're not in the guild, one of the most common loot systems for a pickup group is soft Reserve. Before the run you choose one or two items that you want more than anything else and you tell the group leader you want them soft reserved. Whenever an item drops, if it was soft reserved by anyone, only the people that soft reserved it can roll for it. If an item was not soft reserved, everyone can roll (assuming you can equip and its good for your class).

[@xabun]

@@Zatar ah thank you very much

[@sv9610]

NO

[@simmot5213]

I have perd and cht does my perd move to offhand when I get the Pugio?

[@Zatar]

Pugio mh cht offhand

[@yeee321]

You dont replace darkmantle until you get the full t2.5 set on alliance side

[@Zatar]

On Alliance side bloodfang 3 set is better, making darkmantle worse, because its harder to maintain the three set when you add pieces in. Darkmantle will also proc less without windfury. Finally, the raw stat increases scale with kings while the darkmantle proc does not.

[@yeee321]

@@Zatar I was saying strictly the tier pieces to replace, also do you think its worth getting ravencrests legacy as a human rogue?, currently using CTS mh and warblade of hakkari offhand

[@Maishian]

The trash items are all wanted by feral druid XD

[@tommyshankz]

darkmantle is better for sword rogues than dagger rogues i'm pretty sure

[@byteme0000]

It is, but the difference isn’t enough to worry about.

[@falafelfabian]

just watching this to see which items i have to snack with my hunter KEKW

[@bradracine3426]

I refuse to farm ubrs and scholo just for this set. It will not make or break your dps. It’s more looked at by min/maxers. Yes it will be great but don’t let people keep telling you to spend weeks farming

[@FlyToSafety]

Equipping darkmantle will be the same dmg increase as to equip full t2,5 on day 1

[@bradracine3426]

Definitely, but sadly some of us aren’t lucky soothed RNG. I’ve ran ubrs at least 5 times a day for a week now and still no chest.

[@crestfallen821]

2:48

[@lasergames1798]

Spoiler alert, it's all rogue prio.

[@Rave.-]

Still like your content, especially loot prio videos, but it's sad to have to say that Sno launching his site and videos basically overshadowed every other Rogue content creator.

[@quietstorm8916]

As a dagger rogue i would probably go for that gun.

[@Gobblesthepatient]

Quietstorm89 let warriors have it. It’s basically bis game for both tank and dps

[@quietstorm8916]

@@Gobblesthepatient I got full bwl gear+ Darkmantle, t2.5 shoulders, belt of neverending agony etc, but still i feel like i struggle with critts with my backstab :/ i got enough hit, So i would trade my strikers for it everyday :>

[@Gobblesthepatient]

@@quietstorm8916 its such a bigger deal for warriors though :) warriors dont get near the same value from the hit on strikers that you do on a rogue

[@Beattie532]

Got deaths sting first raid :D ezpz 15/08/2020 ;)

[@nicholasdillis1989]

darkmantle , darkmantle, dude you said darkmantle was overrated, but you keep talking about how good darkmantle is now, Hmmmm

[@Zatar]

My opinion on darkmantle changed over these 3 months since this was recorded.

[@nicholasdillis1989]

@@Zatar nicely done sir, you surely made some name :D

[@brickguy5603]

As a dwarf hunter you saying the gun goes to a war almost killed me. ..

[@Zatar]

Is the gun best in slot for Dwarfs? I know crossbows is better for everyone else.

[@ashrulessb]

Its like a sidegrade from the xbow from cromagus

[@davidnero4604]

Death's Sting is dps warrior bis :) gl

[@bossyk0]

SHAME

[@ihavenoidea4727]

Death's Sting is the best tanking weapon in the game. Only reason rogues would have prio is bc ppl cant wrap their head around that daggers arent really rogue weapons in pve. :DDDD also yes I know every argument against this so dont even bother. If tf is tank prio, and its less threath and dps than this plus pugio or this plus kings fall, then this should tank prio over tf. Is what it is. Dagger rogue isnt even the ***most*** viable spec lol. That argument vs the best tanking weapon in the game for the most important role in the game. Makes sense to give it to rogues lol.

[@Zatar]

Lol, nice try :) had a good laugh

[@kennethcarpenterii7636]

Bahaha DKP? Losers