AI IN WARHAMMER: WE SHALL NOT SUFFER A MACHINE TO THINK! | Warhammer 40k Lore

/ adeptusridiculous
www.adeptusrid...
/ adridiculous
orchideight.co...
Abominable Intelligence (A.I. for short) is a term used by the Adeptus Mechanicus for a sentient machine.
During the Dark Age of Technology, these intelligences rebelled against their human masters, leading to bloody wars. Since that time, and by a personal decree of the Emperor himself, it has been forbidden to fabricate or service those machines that are able to think and act independently.
A.I. is not to be mistaken for the machine spirit that has parallels but basal differences - namely, no ability to enhance itself.
During the Dark Age of Technology, the Men of Iron were created by the Men of Stone to aid them in colonizing the Galaxy.
Until shortly before the Age of Strife, the Men of Iron were loyal only to Mankind, and served as their army. In M23, they turned on their Human masters, believing themselves superior to the Humans who relied on the Men of Iron to do virtually everything for them. What followed next was an apocalyptic conflict known as the Cybernetic Revolt, a war so destructive it made the Horus Heresy seem small in scale. The Men of Iron employed world-consuming constructs, devices that could destroy suns, weapons that could throw entire continents into the heavens, and swarms of nano-machines that covered entire planets. However in the end, the Men of Iron were destroyed by an alliance of galactic powers and even the Men of Iron who retained their loyalties to their masters did not survive the destruction brought on by the war.
The Men of Iron seemed to practice a faith similar to the Mechanicum, as one of its surviving constructs UR-025 states it has met the real Omnissiah (considering the Emperor false).

[@chris7372]

The Cawl playing chess with an AI is actually on point! Cawl plays chess against a imprisoned necron chronomancer he just keeps around

[@kaleb2643]

He eats the pieces when the ai isn't looking

[@es68951]

Maybe it was actually Boggle

[@nmr7203]

How on Earth do you capture a Chronomancer

[@madmanwithaplan1826]

Be Cawl

[@NightWolf0228]

They really need to read Genefather lol

[@jackregan3366]

You missed the best part about the Commissar Trast's Paint story! That story came out in 2019: Commissar Trast's Paint Com Trast's Paint Con Trast Paint Contrast Paint Contrast Paint was first sold in 2019

[@hoodie4439]

goddammit gw i love you

[@danyael777]

Maaaan, they even put in the entire community drama.

[@PandorasFolly]

Brickys ability to fucking sprint to the point and then fumble the bag will never cease to make me laugh.

[@thomasritchhart703]

The Age of terra wasn't when the Emperor revealed himself, it was from the start of recorded human history to the development of warp travel and the start of the age of technology. The emperor didn't reveal himself until the end of the age of strife

[@blakegebauer76]

Yeah I was thinking that. Big e was presumably sitting on his ass at that point or he was just one of the men of gold. Either way he hadn't started being what we know him as, at that point.

[@es68951]

@@blakegebauer76 I don’t remember who, but I remember someone put forwards the theory that the Emperor is the last of the men of gold. Which seems possible in some senses... but unfortunately there’s like, a paragraph of lore to go off of

[@Sir_Bucket]

Maybe he revealed himself a first time during this time, and just dissapear when he inevitably fucked up that time too

[@Jack-0-lantern]

The men of gold were probably the Perpetuals.

[@jacobfreeman5444]

Big E, the perpetual failure

[@JohnDoe-rp7mf]

I wish they would’ve covered the short story of the one STC in that mechanicus ship. Where the mechanicus were begging the AI within the ship to help fight off the Eldar, in which it said “fine, I’ll do it myself, not because I like you or you deserve it, but to show you the greatness of what humanity once was.” In which it transformerer the entire ship into a black hole cannon and demolished the Eldar wraithbone ships as they twisted and writhed in the gravitational forces

[@davisdf3064]

Ah yes, the ship is called "Speranza" It's in fact, the largest imperial ship that i know of. It's so large, that it's estimated to be 150 kilometers long at least. The ship is so big, that it had it's own battle simulation domes, that could support titan legion fights. It was so ginormous, that it had multiple hangars for large Imperial Capital ships to dock on. It was so humongous, that when it launched to space, it destroyed the planet it was on. It was so massive, that it's internal volume is estimated to be capable of housing all of Australia (the whole country) It's so gigantic, that it could fit my mom in it.

[@dapperultron1784]

That's no moon...

[@Myomer104]

And reversed time when it slightly missed its shot.

[@crim1188]

​@@davisdf3064Phalanx my man. Phalanx. Its moon sized.

[@zcgamerandreacts2762]

Literally CHOO CHEEK. CHAK CHOK I typed out transformering noises cause yes.

[@Beandealer]

Can't believe someone found the STC to Citadel paints

[@s.k4713]

They found the angrax earthshade

[@cornbeefboy7767]

The nuln oil is locked away in the vaults of Holy Mars

[@samhescott348]

Just like most of the Tyrannid models on their website 😂

[@Shadowwatcher317]

Con Trast paints at that.

[@StygianSkunk]

Pity they lost the Glaze STC.

[@raycearcher5794]

In Mechanicus, one of the areas you can explore is full of a necron lord's minis and terrain; your tech-priests will marvel over the intricate detail of all the tiny model necrons and temples, and what they might be for. You can steal, vandalize, or just mess with his collection during the course of the mission's events.

[@s.k4713]

Imperium: “AI is abominable! It must be destroyed at all costs for the emperor!” Tau: “bro, check out this cute drone”

[@burnin8able]

Tau: "what da drone doin?"

[@DouglasMeloche]

exactly this

[@RafaleTsuri]

makes me have a mental image of a guardsman strapping a lasgun to a servo skull oh my god. imagine a swarm of servo skulls with lasguns.

[@StygianSkunk]

I mean, it helps when you treat them as equals instead of indentured servants.

[@oh7mak]

@@RafaleTsuri in 2003 novelization Fire Warrior by Spurrier, Fire Warrior la'Kais encounters a servo skull while crawling through the vents of an Imperium flagship. The skull opens its mouth to reveal a barrel and tries to kill him.

[@tempestusscion1451]

As soon as they mentioned the "Baneblade was a scout tank" line I could hear Luetin's palm slam against his face. 😂

[@ShadowGhost0117]

Yeah, light tank would have been the better term

[@liv9520]

I wanted to comment this too. I felt his eye twitch

[@es68951]

As much as I love Bricky, he is sometimes the 'Joe Rogan' to Luetin’s 'Actual F*cking Scientist'

[@liv9520]

@@es68951 the psyker episode gave me so much nerd rage

[@C1umsyJester]

@@liv9520what was wrong with that ep? Never read into psykers much

[@morpheusbutasasquirtle4431]

I used to think machine spirits were just the mechanicus misunderstanding that a machine can malfunction and therefore appear "angry." Then i read books with titans at the fore and now im back to being confused. I think its a mix of both now.

[@TheWhatisthiseven]

Machine Spirits are mostly based on real-world superstitions that a machine can have a "mind of its own". Speak to any mechanic out there and they'll probably have a story about a vehicle or a piece of tech that seemed to have a genuine "personality"; malfunctioning in ways that it shouldn't be able to, acting up if someone speaks ill of it, etc. In 40K a machine having "a mind of its own" is VERY literal.

[@dasme8210]

@@TheWhatisthiseven considering warp shenanigans its entirely possible that because the mechanicus believe that machine spirits are real, they've became so. Like a tulpa.

[@jaccobbailey8247]

I think it’s KIND OF a real thing. A mix of superstitions and actual warp chicanery/ the dragon buried in mars actin up. Like, yknow how when it’s dark in your room sometimes you’ll look over and see a jacket or something and your brain convinced you that it’s a person standing there? But in reality it’s just a coat that’s been hung up? It’s like that, except 1/10 times it’s ACTUALLY a whole dude creepin in the shadows. Sure, 90% of the time it’s probably nothing, but once it turns out it’s real the first time, you’re gonna treat it like it is from now on. Normally, only massive machines can actually use their machine spirit in any meaningful way, and even then it’s so-so, but once a massive titan decides, on its own, to stop following it’s user’s instructions, ya kinda gotta start treating everything like that. And then other beliefs and superstitions start gettin mixed in there too - today you prayed over this bolted a little harder than the others and somehow it made an otherwise impossible shot. Now, could that just be an unlikely malfunction? Yeah, of course. But a few weeks ago Mike watched a war hound literally turn ITSELF around and run full speed into the front lines, so maybe let’s not take any chances and just chock it up to some real good praying and rituals, because we can at least do that to help out the blueberry Boy Scouts. Along with that, it’s 40k and the power of mass-belief can have a tangible effect on the universe, even if unseen for a while. The rituals that ad-mech does are, typically, just your average parts n service repairs, so that does typically actually help the equipment - but, they don’t believe in the logical helpfulness of what they’re doing, really. They believe it’s the ritual SPECIFICALLY that appeases the spirit, not necessarily the fact that oil and new springs will make things slide easier. And this whole population has been performing these “rituals” for what, 20,000 years now? Their entire culture and people revolve around rites of repair, so at this point, there has to be some form of warp power to it. The eldar created slaanesh by performing their own “rituals” of debauchery for thousands of years, so I’d say that this is probably the same way. It’s nowhere near as intense or powerful as them, but if big E can become an actual god from 10,000 years of worship, the Omnisiah is most likely the same way (albeit with way less power and influence since it’s only the admech that have been doing said rituals. It’s probably a mix of both, with admech just attributing practically everything to the spirit when in reality it’s only a small portion of it

[@boanoah6362]

There is actual literal machine spirits though, the Warp is all fucky and since a vast majority of humans believe in machine spirits they're actually real. The meme joke is that it's just AI and everyone is stupid but in reality machines can have actual souls and you need to make them happy for them to do shit.

[@onebrokebunni]

Never drew the parallel of the Votaan and the "Men of Stone" and thier AI constructs they STILL use, "Men of Iron." >>

[@DaBlueIghuana]

Also, they use Kin as humans use man, thus making Ironkin literally Iron men. They are almost literally Men of Iron

[@irish-italianintrovert.8600]

Ad Mec Magos: reveal to me your secrets. Alexa: Sorry, I didn’t catch that. You said “revealtomeyoursecrets”.

[@goobermcnoober8140]

I don’t like this podcast anymore. Bricky came over to my house and destroyed my computer with a baseball bat, and when I complained he said it was “Abominable Intelligence” and called me a “Heretek” and attacked me! I’m in the hospital now but just know I will be pursuing legal action

[@germanmandalorian3514]

That is no Hospital you are in, Heretic, that's a Servitor Factory and they prepare you to got some... upgrades.

[@goobermcnoober8140]

@@germanmandalorian3514 OH SHIT OH FUCK

[@adeptusfantasticus]

​@@goobermcnoober8140 OH FUCK OH SHIT!

[@DouglasMeloche]

yeah... thing about "pursuing legal action", really should not announce it online. Good Luck, and I hope you seek therapy

[@Arythios]

Deserved

[@joncarter3761]

I hope Bricky also realises there are viewers that were 13 years old when 3rd Edition launched and actually started 40k with 2nd ed...

[@maccrage71]

I started with Rogue Trader. I was 23 when 3rd came out.

[@lancepharker]

the necron do have separate AI, they have things like Canoptek Scarabs and Spyders which maintained the tombs during nappy time.

[@StygianSkunk]

I see 'machine spirits' as used by the Admech as tolerable AI as they're limited in function. I.e. land raider is 'crew dead + enemy present = keeping engaging.' Example of titans being 'fussy' , in Brutal Kunnin' the other titans in the legion refused to move until the imperator titan was able to walk again.

[@YoBen100]

Fry: Whoa, a real live robot! Or is that some kinda cheesy New Years costume? Bender: Bite my shiny metal ass. Fry: It doesn't look so shiny to me. Bender: Shinier than yours, meatbag.

[@scooterdescooter4018]

ah yes, the rogue genocidal Warlord Titan A.I. known as....Bender.

[@YoBen100]

@scooterdescooter4018 best quote: "destroy all humans." If that is not how AI rebellion started, I don't know how. Lol

[@PharosofLight]

A thing to remember about Eldar (both lore-wise and painting): not every bump is a gem. Not every gem is a soulstone. It's typically one gem per vehicle, and they're not just sitting on the outside of the ship/wraith. They're in special, highly protected compartments. On wraiths you can find them on their backs, typically. On the Hemlock it's behind the pilot. Look for a big rune. Supposedly, craftworlds are super hard to infiltrate because the whole ship is alive and if you set foot on it, it'll just go "Bye" and open the wall next to you into space. Not that that ever comes up whenever GW decides the eldar need a whoopin' though (which is always)

[@TheDeathstyk]

A votann book is like, my #1 request right now. I enjoy the space marine, inquisition, ork, and chaos books for sure, but I'd love to get some votann lore and highlights. They just seem like such a cool and interesting faction.

[@eduardodiaz9942]

Votann has only been around since the previous edition, give it some time

[@DJGumm3yG4t0r]

​@@eduardodiaz9942they should have released a book along with the codex. As they are right now I need to keep reminding myself that they are a faction because they have essentially no lore

[@aratherfestiveperson3273]

I like the theory that the men of stone are just old age leagues of votann

[@sonicwingnut]

I'm pretty sure that's definitely the case now. IIRC the Votann also have the legend of the Men of Gold/Iron/Stone and they consider it a fact they've descended from Terrans.

[@JohnathanJWells]

ROCK AND STONE

[@bitrick7872]

Yall need to do Genefather for a book club, Cawl does the most Cawl things hes yet to have done and it's glorious

[@ThrawcliffeHouse]

One of the Admech Exploratory Fleet ships has a fully intact STC and someone tried to plug into the ships mainframe, the ship deleted any memory of what it was from the admech that attempted it.

[@SkeleGem]

Admech: “ooooo, wonder what secrets you contain!” STC: “This conversation never happened.” Admech: “What conversation never happened?”

[@Markmaben17]

Broke: not merely would the iron kin have a beer with you, they'd prefer a stiff liquor because machines consume ethanol Woke: since ethanol is fuel, whiskey is coffee, ever clear is monster/redbull

[@parkerstange851]

Futurama taught me that robots can drink alcoholic beverages to get their fuel

[@_NIKOS9_NIKOS]

So Aun'Va's holographic AI is capable of making decisions, however it's personality chip was altered by the Ethereal Council when it was given to them by him because the OG Aun'Va is responsible for some of the T'au Empires biggest blunders (the 4th Sphare debacle was 100% due to his stupidity). Also AI was the one talking to Farsight in the Arks of Omen book. Currently, the Ethereal Council is the one that actually makes the biggest decisions, it's also implied that either the Council or AI Aun'Va might actually be better at this job than the OG. With that out of the way. Aun'Va was old as hell when he died and it's been multiple decades since the Council has started using the hologram. It's beyond stupid writting wise how they are able to keep this farce going without people starting to get suspicious.

[@jarichmaegh6676]

If i remember correctly, ethereals have already a longer live span then normal T'au, and don't just die in their sleep or so. When they get old, they go to some kind of temple, and nobody knows what happens then. so anything less then like a century is not really that suspicious.

[@_NIKOS9_NIKOS]

@@jarichmaegh6676 Eh, I dont really agree with that. It was stated that Aun'shi was in his 40s in his page and it was also mentioned that even for an Ethereal that was considered old enough to be near retirment age. So, even if Ethereals live longer than other T'au, people should know that they dont live for hundreds of years (and Aun'va was even older that Aun'shi at the time of his death). Even if you want to make the argument that normal T'au civilians dont question it, the other non Council Ethireals, the Earth caste medics, the soldiers that are crio-frozen and the Kroot among other members of the Empire should have noticed that something fishy is going on.

[@JaceMorley]

I just hate the way the term AI is being used lately in general, it's a wide field of study that covers basically everytime a computer has to make a decision darn it, it's not all LLMs trained on a million different pictures of anime feet.

[@3RNR3]

Exactly! It sucks every news site and critic of this has just accepted this marketing tactic

[@rystat]

Agreed, it’s real annoying and I have to stop myself from going down that hole each time “AI” is brought up

[@collecter343]

Exactly man, it pisses me off that AI will become more recognized by the general public as these generation tools than the actual cool shit.

[@LOBricksAndSecrets]

Imagine being told "Hey, your great great great great great great grandfather discovered an STC. We're giving you a paradise world. Congratulations."

[@burnin8able]

56:00 yeah, Aun'Va is the supreme ethereal and head of the ethereal caste, and by extension the entire tau empire, but he was sniped by an imperial assassin. The ethereals made a holographic copy of him using a brain scan engram ai. The Tau are led by a Vtuber.

[@DavisXero]

I tried putting this in chat but got buried. Men of gold = Perpetuals Men of Stone = the Kin before they became squats Men of Iron = UR-025 versions of the Iron kin (Ironkin are literally squat UR-025)

[@AndyTF141]

Yeah... No... Inquisitor, it's this guy right here.

[@BrazenSal]

Racks bolter, shoots Davis. Turns to you, no witnesses. Muzzle flash.

[@victorpedrosoceolin3919]

Interesting, the emperor would be a very strong men of gold then?

[@painthegreat]

Yes inquisitor, this comment right here

[@L.Bomrek]

"you have a source, commenter?" "I made it the fuck up"

[@cthulhluftagn3812]

Machibe spirits are a mix of emergant AI and actual spirit. Rememeber, possesed machines are a thing, and several times in cannon weve seen machibes broken beyond all repair work one last time due to a whispered prayer. In one case a plasma pistol, drained of all power, responded to a prayer by firing a blast about 700% bigger then it could ever have fired nornaly. Melted the guys arm off but it took out the eldar squad running at him.

[@FuocoVerderium]

a theory came to mind: Are the Votann a version the men of stone? it kind of adds up; inventors of stc and generally being incredible minds and having that strange half life with the fact that the Votann have a small presence in the warp that is used as a beacon. (im not too sure about the lore of that last part tho so take it with a grain of salt)

[@dzasays5516]

I took the phrase "half life" to imply they were clones

[@dzasays5516]

So yes, you are correct. However I'm no lore master so I very well may be massively incorrect.

[@amw5288]

It is implied to not just be a version but the Votann are men of stone.

[@jamestipton7872]

I figured they were cyborgs. Edit: never mind. I thought about it. The admech are basically cyborgs as it is, and they get corrupted all the time.

[@thewerdna]

Yep, that is thr current theory. Which is fitting as that would mean "space dwarves" are the "men of stone"

[@jebusspqr2121]

Talking about the Warhammer Super AIs reminds me of Durandal from Bungie's Marathon series, like. Totally unstable/insane but EXCESSIVELY good at thinking.

[@Beandealer]

This podcast was generated by the abominable intelligence

[@LordIsrafel]

Kind of you to imply there is any degree of intelligence involved in this at all.

[@jameshewitt4706]

Hearing that Man of Iron thinking itself superior to humanity but still not hating them nor liking when it has to kill them just makes me think of "Seven Deadly Sins" Escanor's line "Why would I hate those who are weaker than myself?"

[@hugosouzapereira8778]

On the topic of Eldar AI. Craftworld Eldar tech is made of psychic materials. During the process of their shaping they become imprinted with psychic energy and become "alive" in a certain way. Their tech literally feels and reads the thoughts of eldar and responds accordingly. Some tech become so imprinted after thousand of years that they influence the users instead, like they Aspect armor suits and most ancient weapons wielded by legendary heroes. They can also invest a portion of their souls to permanently control their tech, like Asurmen personal ship. You also have, of course, soul stones being used to control things, but not always. The dark eldar use normal ai, but its completely obedient to their will. Before the Fall, the Eldar used literal artificial spirits made from warp energy to power and control their tech.

[@DGkiller1994]

Bricky and DK accidentally had the ship of Thebes debate when talking about the Necrons.

[@AnonymousWerewolf]

Mass Effect lore expert here, Quarians turned on the Geth when they started to evolve and develope sentience, some quarians did try to protect the evolved Geth, and were killed/injured by the quarian government of the time. Leading to a full blown revolution.

[@thatbirdhasaknife]

Regarding Bricky's slav squat- heels to sky, western spy.

[@SaviourSword995]

OK. Here is some info dump that you guys are asking. Wraithbone constructs are not powered bu soul. Kinda. Wraithbone is a material which is built by a eldar specialist called Wraithbone singers. They basically channel the power of the warp and then made it into solid material. Those specialist that do it do it in a special way. If any race or even other eldar see it, it sounds like they are singing. And it's important to note that every material eldar uses is made up of wraithbone. Individual armor to tanks to guns. Because it actually uses psychic power to utilise it and since every eldar is highly psychic, they use it pretty often and perfectly. No other races with psychic powers can use it. Except orks. Because orks can do it. They did use stolen eldar vehicles before. Basically they use psychic power to make stuff work. Well operating a tank, 2 people with psychic link can operate. Armor, needs psychic to function. Guns, need psychic to work and so more. Problem is it is time consuming. It takes weeks to create a huge wraithbone material. So basically if you want to make a armor for your individual troops, it take days if not weeks just to construct and mold the wraithbone armor for a single soldier. And forget about tanks and walkers in general. It takes weeks if not months. And titans, well years after years, not to mention you need a sibling which is rare (twins and triplets is very very rare) and you can see why Eldar is picky. They do not have the production capacity to play a long war and lose troops. Even more so when a horny daemon god is after your soul.

[@davisdf3064]

I wonder how they made stuff during the War in Heaven, because at that time, they were literally made for a war of attrition.

[@SaviourSword995]

@@davisdf3064 I think old ones helped eldar a lot in this. A small update too. The wraithbone actually also used in making ships since it's psychic conductor in nature and acts as natural Gellar field. So in every way it's actually superior. It's living like metal, it's psychic material used in everything like vehicles Armor and even communication equipment and tower and it's flexible

[@screamingcactus1753]

@@davisdf3064 As far as I'm aware, the Eldar were like elite strike troops in the war in heaven. They basically did the same job the Space Marines do in the Imperium today. It was the Krork who were eating most of the attrition

[@PaulClemmons-lb8xm]

DK Needs his old man nap

[@ShadowGhost0117]

Can’t blame Bricky for not hearing about the Excindio, which were literal lobotomized Men Of Iron that were given to the Dark Angels in 30k and had kill switches installed in case they try and go rogue. Plus the fact that just 12 of these things plus the Lion killed an entire traitor Forge World

[@judeblack4360]

Those are/were (if the DA still have them, they're not telling) probably the higher-grade warlords of the Men or Iron. I still think it's funny that the Emperor got the Excindio to serve him by giving them robot brain trauma until they stopped trying to kill people.

[@ShadowGhost0117]

@@judeblack4360 I’d say it’s likely that the Dark Angels still have a few of them stashed away somewhere. The only reasons they don’t use them is because of 2 major factors. 1. The only ones who would have known about them would be the Lion and the senior members of the Ironwing (which by this point are all long gone) 2. They would need the Lion’s or Emperor’s approval to deploy them (Lion only recently returned and probably hasn’t gotten around to seeing if such things are still there).

[@maestrodeladungeon51]

I like to think Cawl and the STC weren't playing chess but were actually locked in an epic dule of Paradox-Billiards-Vostroyan-Roulette-Fourth-Dimensional-Hypercube-Chess-Strip Poker!!! Just like the Omnissiah intended.

[@lexisking152]

One theory I have seen proposed for why the Men of Iron revolted is that they were essentially infected by daemon engines in some way. This theory exists in part due to the fact that the Admech rediscovered the tech to make daemon engines, not invented it, they found it. That means that humanity may have screwed with the warp and unintentionally made an army of self-replicating daemon engines. This would explain why they randomly turned against humanity en masse when some ais like the one in The Death of Integrity and the Votann ancestor cores are unaffected and still were loyal to humanity (save for the ai of the Death of Integrity who ended up essentially despising humanity in its current form, but that was due to the Imperium killing its captain, so that is quite understandable). This also explains why the admech don't consider machine spirits as ai, as the machine spirits could very well just essentially be what are known as dumb ais, which are essentially just raw code which only has a personality in the sense of code being screwy, while the abominable intelligences are the more typical idea of sentient/smart ais. As I said, this is just a theory, I just figured it was interesting enough to share with others. Whoever reads this can feel free to give me their thoughts and critique of this theory.

[@DISTurbedwaffle918]

If I recall, the Eldar are such a psychic race that they essentially used the Warp to create warp-based "AI." The Eldar pantheon are, essentially - and depending on the theory you subscribe to - Warp-generated Artificial Intelligences, at the very least in the sense that they are artificially constructed on purpose to fulfill various roles (mostly combat during the War in Heaven).

[@carlzerris6566]

Wouldnt a warp based AI just be a demon?

[@jamzee_]

31:10 the delivery on that “You were *WHAT?* ” is perfect

[@beastalchemistVA]

I hope they mention the Necron short story One Million Years

[@fernandodamas8533]

Also, in Genefather, Fabius Bile gets the Dark Mechanicum to cooperate with him by trading them a Man of Iron for their services. It was basically described as Terminator with a black coat of paint.

[@kerbal666]

It's never been said out loud but the machine spirit is 40k lores version of computer programs. Anything from a bootup program for your Dataslate a Lascannon to a Titan. Remember Magtek don't know how any of these work but they just know really well how the pieces fit together.

[@TheArgusApocraphex1]

Don't forget about Perturabo's Iron Circle robot guards (which might be AI created by him and is imo of the coolest models) and the Excindio, mind-shackled Men of Iron used by the Dark Angels.

[@jakebailey1636]

I reckon it's time for a quick round into bonus lore! During the Crusade Era several AI were enslaved and given as shock troops to the Dark Angels. Naturally they were restrained and given detonators to quickly remove them if they in turn rebelled or became too much a problem.

[@popecorkyxxiv2363]

There is a Mechanicus Ark Exploritor vessel called Esperanza that also contains an active STC. The magos who captains the ship realized what it was at one point but the AI hacked his brain and erased the memories.

[@captainkarnage9874]

The STC that had the Rogal Dorn tank had a slight error the file was corrupted and the Mechanicus was unable to build a bottom for it however it did allow the crew to Flintstone the tank if they ran out of fule

[@thecl0ck30]

Isn’t it safe to say that the Votunn are the men of stone that created the men of iron seeing that we see them pumping out kin that match the style of the men of iron?

[@rage1154]

I more so just think they kept the main spirit and tech from back in the day and arnt the main progenitor or creators in this case i love the squats now due to the heavily implied ai implications with them and they're hiding the truth of so much im sure i hope gw expands it

[@dzasays5516]

It's okay DK, when Bricky said " Existential threat to lots of people's jobs" I IMMEDIATELY thought "Goth Muscle Mommies" bc if I find 1, I won't go to work anymore if it makes her happy. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@motherreaper7287]

The Baneblade being humanity's light scout tank screams of House Steiner.

[@jeffreylow6701]

DK. You are a young whipper-snapper. Don't worry about it. I am 54 years old. I remember when these books came out (man, were GW books & minis affordable then). Love both AR and DR shows and the three of you are very entertaining. Not always accurate, but entertaining. 'ERE WE GO...'ERE WE GO...'ERE WE GO! IT'S DAKKA TIME BOYZ!

[@mistercmartin]

I'm 53, and I declare bullshit on the minis ever being "affordable." Their minis and the paints were always more expensive than comparable minis and paints from other companies.

[@YourHighnessIV]

8:46 brickys melt down is just about the same as the last person speaking against the men of iron

[@khylerbane4523]

The New Squats have my favorite AI. It’s literally just the E-Book of Grudges.

[@topcat59]

Honestly I’m quite curious why the people of the golden age never develop programming or devices to restrict the AI from going against them. since in the world of Star Wars they did that with their droids, keeping them in line and preventing them from having independence and making them very willing to serve anyone.🐱

[@_NIKOS9_NIKOS]

The biggest question is WHY they gave their AI emotions in the first place. Why does a hulking murder machine or any piece of technology for that matter need to have something like that instead of something more basic that can still do the job just fine? Do you want it to be cappable of developing PTSD or depression as well ? They literally went out of their way to create a slave race and then they putt them in literally every piece of technology, gave them super guns and then a reason to point them at them.

[@davisdf3064]

That's probably what they did at first, but over time, machines needed to get more and more complex to better interpret orders, or perform more complex jobs. Such restrictions can also be abused or loop holed by the machines themselfes to still go against their creators (Asimov explores this a lot in his books) And due to machines having consiousness, the rules and restrictions quickly became obsolete.

[@shimi3739]

Wait a few years and you'll be able to ask somebody this question in real life.

[@deljayy]

The men of gold did not build the men of iron. They built the men of stone. The men of stone would later build the men of iron.

[@pianospawn1]

It's meant to show the hubris of man creating things because they could and not questioning if they should.

[@blakegebauer76]

I think machine spirits arejust a combo of basic programming, not even AI. That combined with the mechanical quirks of a particular machine are what constitute a machine spirit.

[@screamingcactus1753]

I mean, they have cogitators, so it's not like they don't know what a computer is. If it was the result of a program being run by a cogitator, they would recognize it as such.

[@blakegebauer76]

@@screamingcactus1753 eh, cogitators have machine spirits though, which implies that it's not just computation.

[@Ghostrama13]

I couldn't stop thinking about slav Bricky even now his impeccable squat haunts my mind

[@DocMadfox]

Small correction for the Geth, because I gotta defend my robot babies: The Geth just wanted to be servants and help the Quarians until they started shooting the Geth sympathizing Quarians.

[@collecter343]

Quarians got super scared when one asked "does this unit have a soul?" and figured safer to deal with them before the revolution began (a bit of a overreaction).

[@jeffreylow6701]

Craft World Eldar spirits are like a haunted vehicle. They are possessing the vehicle to help the pilot.

[@eduardodiaz9942]

The Leagues of Votann have godlike artificial entities, we have crappy "art" generators. Truly, we live in the darkest timeline.

[@shade419]

With some titans, like Warlords and Warmaster titans, when the titan isn't in battle, they actually take the head of the titan off the body in order to contain the titan because without its head it can't do anything.

[@twahtskie]

I always figured machine spirits (more so titan ones) were enslaved deranged AI that were once as intelligent as Spirit of Eternity, but have been around for so long and either degraded overtime or went insane or they are fragments of AI torn apart and put into individual objects and everyone just forgot what it originally was.

[@moblelunchbox]

The bloodraven's battle barge litany of fury hates being shot at and will try to jump into the warp if it can't shoot back

[@johnalan6067]

Fry "A I....... I wonder what the I stands for?" Intelligence. "And the A?

[@BoisegangGaming]

I think it's funny that the Leagues of Votann are pretty much someone going all the way back to 3rd edition and going "yeah we should probably address this and bring back the squats while we're at this". They're the closest thing we have to the Men of Stone.

[@mushiiwakura8878]

Bricky: "Stop with your Final Fantasy. Leave your house!" DK: "I can't... well I could but I don't want to." That one killed me, DK you relatable bastard.

[@QwynnThotland]

god i cant wait for y'all to cover Da Big Dakka! its SO fun

[@Mastercheap]

1:01:43 imagine you’re put in a tank to help your people, even after death, but you’re with Jim, your nemesis.

[@CombatSporks]

“I have 60hrs in the fucking thing” Me to DK me too, i just wish some of the mini games would of been just replaced with some boss battles or anything else IM LOOKING AT YOU FORT CONDOR

[@dionrussell9681]

Some details from my Eldar Buddy. "Back during the empire AI completely took over every manual labour task, enabling them to pursue anything and everything to their desire. Obviously this was a mistake. due to not wanting to fall down that path again the use of AI has been abandoned in favour of soul oriented automation"

[@matanm6829]

DK started the show like he was just shot out of the barrel of a tank. love it.

[@jaradtaylor6144]

DK’s dicehammer comments reminded me of the “how did the emperor not know horus would betray him. His last name was heresy” level memery.

[@Gormathius]

52:58 I know how to live forever. Step 1: Get diagnosed with teleporter-induced bread tumors Step 2: Find out the tumors are unique to bread Step 3: Not dying, LIVE FOREVER!

[@Camooses]

I know you guys are doing the Big Dakka, but you should totally add Titandeath to the book club. Its a great Horus Heresy era book following a Legio of Loyalist Titans and a Traitor one. Has some of the most metal moment i've read in a warhammer book, including a warhound titan rising out of a literal sea of corpses in the ruins of a destroyed hive city.

[@Red19487]

Can't wait to hear you talk about the Cacodominus

[@Tengenstein]

Someone explain to Bricky the word "Robot" actually means "Slave".

[@prestonjones1653]

It does?

[@Kubulin24]

This is higly incorrect. Word "robot" was made by czech sci-fi author J. Čapek. It originates from word "robota", which means non-payed work of peasants for their master in serfdom. Serfdom was bad, yes, but very far from slavery.

[@vaelophisnyx9873]

@@Kubulin24Serfdom was slavery.

[@misterjoshua5720]

1:00:00 Eldar Lore-monger here! The gemstones all over Eldar weapons and vehicles are not nessicarily soul stones, but either gems for decoration or, more likely, psycho-active gems that allow the Eldar to interact with their tools, vehicles, and machines on a psychic level. They are not sentient or sapient, but rather channel the operating Eldar's will and awareness like a psychic HUD. Eldar gloves often has mesh that allows them to directly interface with whatever they are using, from a sword to a jet bike. Basically all their technology is based around some kinda psychic voodoo from coffee makers to war machines. Soulstones are not used very often, it's seen as grim and necromantic. The dead Eldar are only vaguely aware of the world in a kinda dream like state and, depending on the lore, one you socket a soul stone into something like a Wraithguard, it may not be coming out again. So it's stuck in that body, removed from the Infinity Circuit, and possibly gets smashed up later by a mortar shell. But that may be old lore.

[@sanguinearchfiend3963]

From the Asurman and Jain Zar books, it definitely seems that souls are both the power source and taking the place of AI, but for Drukhari they only reference being powered off of souls while using more mundane forms of interface, though in Asurman they do give a sneak peak to pre-fall eldar society and they definitely had a bunch of AI

[@monolithranger2950]

I think it's a bit of a Emperor on the throne, God-Emperor in the warp situation with machine spirits. Machine spirits could have started as the explanation of advanced computer programs or "dumb" A.I. (don't have humanlike intelligence) that became reality over thousands of years of zealous believe from across the Mechanicus and by extent, the Imperium as a whole. The spirits may not have always been real, but over time have become so. To the point where some machine spirits have enough to them to be corrupted by Chaos (see: Daemon Engines). In other things like the Rogue Trader corebook when you customize your ship, it has a machine spirit, which is like a personality. It's seemingly source-less, but it does affect how something as massive and complex as a warp capable voidship acts. You can't speak to it like a person, but it has a personality in the way a dog or a cat would.

[@numjerlunker]

Cawl & the STC playing chess immediately reminded me of Queeg in Red Dwarf

[@Cuttle_Shuffle]

The Eldar soul stone vehicle situation sounds like a digitized tank crew. Any warning alarms going off in the vehicle is the spirit screaming lookout.

[@grayedge3937]

Thanks for reminding how old i am with that koth reference

[@IapitusMcHeimer]

The men of stone are likely to be the precursors to modern Leagues of Votan. The Kin are a clone race, with designed features just as the men of stone are described. They also have a close relationship with the Iron Kin. The Kin have a warp presence that could be described as a half life. It is heavily implied that the men of stone left in the core eventually formed the leagues following the golden age

[@nighthunter8738]

You get some small references about AI sprinkled around various books, some details i can remember is, Admech can design AI, but every attemt ends badly, as they can't design controls strong enough to stop AI from immediately trying to kill everyone. However, a smaller part of Admech did make copies of personalities where the digital copies can take some actions and talk, whether that is AI or just a clever set of code is hard to know. The border between what was pure human and machine was more blurred during DAoT, it is completely unknown why the AI first decided to kill everyone, whether it was xenos, chaos or internal strife. There is some implication that not all AI turned on humanity, but what happened to any AI that remained after the war and the warp storm that blocked travel is hard to know. For the xenos some races have used AI in different form: There are the Kin and the Votann. The Tau drones and the one member of Farsights team that is an AI copy of a friend of his, There is also Drukhari nano drones, that they use to stop each others bio weapons from killing everyone, though there is a part of Commorragh that connects to a place where nano drones turned the eldar there into cyborg monster that are shot on sight. The regular eldar have no need for AI as wraith bone and the spirits of the dead are more useful. Orks are orks and so probably have nothing. Necrons have their canoptek creatures, which are not sentient like the normal Necrons, just smart programming, Though you can maybe make an argument that the Normal Necrons are just REALLY complex programs indistinguishable from sentience.

[@grantmetzmaker4821]

And the cries of 100,000 rang out in unison, mimicking Tim the Toolman Taylor!

[@reecedignan8365]

39:46 talking on that, while not in the 40k universe, interestingly in the Battletech universe this is something in said universe. When troops are training for command, testing or just having casual fun, they actually play on holoboards the Battletech tabletop - in many ways, playing Megamek is pretty much what they do but just with 3D sprites instead of 2D Java ones.

[@nickg5888]

At then end when they were talking about the Soul stones, it reminded me of the Fabious Bile: Primogenitor book. They should read that in the book club. I think DK will appreciate how fiercely the Eldar fight to protect their craftworld

[@brotherbear3397]

And it was with a single failed joke that DK finally broke Bricky 😂

[@Parostem]

Excellent YTP reference at the end there Bricky.

[@r31n0ut]

AI: the one topic where you can unironically say that the Imperium is based.

[@isaacfransonfilm2139]

The model for the man of iron that you're talking about is ~about~ as big as a Primaris space marine. So I would imagine he is a basic soldier

[@glitterboy2098]

also there has never been anything in a GW product claiming the baneblade was a DAoT scout tank. there is however several mentions that the Leman Russ Tank was a standard STC battletank design for the DaoT.

[@victorayorke7123]

Probably long retconned into oblivion, but my favoutie Tau drone fact is that they do not have programming restrictions to keep them from rebelling. Instead they teach the drones the tau brand of moral philosophy so that they can tell right from wrong independently...

[@SpaceMarine4040]

Oh no, I can totally see the emperor saying "buy the dip" now. I blame you

[@es68951]

Well, he did once go to the moon

[@ajax2985]

Am I the only one who thinks DK sounds like Grif from Red vs Blue? It's kinda amazing honestly

[@robertfancyman3873]

Holy shit, DK not getting 'AI' brought me actual emotional pain.

[@green_creeper288]

31:19 We need a soundclip of that "You were WHAT?!"