Sight Singing: To Solfege Or Not To Solfege

Taking a sight singing class? Wish you were better at it? Do you wonder why we use Solfege? Let's talk about it!
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Aimee Nolte

[@AntarblueGarneau]

In Indian classical music we use solfege extensively. Indian solfege is Sa Re Ga ma P Dha Ni and upper Sa. It is called "Sargam" because Sa Re Ga ma are the first four notes. It is abbreviated S R G m P D N (S). You noticed ma is lower case; it indicates flatness (komal = softness) as in a major scale (Bilawal in Indian). The sharp ma is "M" upper case as in Lydian (Kalyan). R G D and N can be flattened as r g d n as in the remaining scales. We use 72 different 7 note scales. actually only half 28 scales apply to North Indian classical music (sitar, tabla, vocal)

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

@@AntarblueGarneau now I understand that you do not use “world-wide-almost-standardized” do re mi fa sol la ti (or si - what is why I say it is “almost”), is because you use it as lyrics ! That is really nice, just like in the movie of “sound of music”. I have 2 questions : 1. Is it “fixed do” or “movable do”? The way you describe it, as if it were “fixed do”, ie, like they were synonyms of cdefgab ! I love “fixed do”, so, if that is the case, I love India classic even more! 2. What is “72 different 7 note scales”, so, must include all those modes? And, does India classical music have pentatonic scales? My impression is, most traditional “world music” has pentatonic scales.

[@waugsqueke]

Hand signals also useful when you have to communicate 5 notes to aliens during a close encounter.

[@AimeeNolte]

waugsqueke 😂😂🙌🏼🙌🏼

[@mitchelledels9762]

AMIEE i am taking solfege at Berklee what they do is, you sing do re me fa so la ti do but you conduct ENHARMONIC is interesting while your doing it Then they make you transcribe the notes you hear in POP AND JAZZ tunes (bass, guitar ,piano). You are right the hand motions are a waste. I see how the conducting helps. Then we do blues. i notice they do different key signatures and timing. Anything that makes you hear the notes is important The most important thing is you are able to hear the notes without your instrument i listened to you AND changed the feel of my tune by playing a Spanish rhythm when i perform it. I have a great guitar teacher his name is Richard Pena .Check him out.. You always have good ideas Hopefully i will be able to hear the notes better. and pitch. Thanks Aimee - PEACE

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

Right, just saying lalala, or, dadada

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

For jazz, Instrument is the king! So, for jazz, do re me, especially the “movable do” is pure stupidity 😂😂 I am not sure what exactly BERKLEY is doing. I just hope they are not stupid 😂😂

[@toddsmyth1120]

Get out of my head! Between my internal debates on whether to apply solfege to moving keys as in bebop and how to get my kids into music, these are just spot on what I needed. Thanks so much!

[@BrettplaysStick]

There are times.... when I believe great educators like yourself do not understand the struggles many lesser musicians have. Solfege is a powerful tool for musicians with lousy ears (like me) constant solfeging is the only way I’ve found to “hear” written music. Solfeging swing and bop tunes is the only way for me to learn them. So throwing it away for someone like me is not an option... although I would in a second if I could, and I think that there are not many musicians who have the aural and memory problems I have (auditory processing disorder) so my point may be only about me alone. I love the videos Aimee!!!!

[@AimeeNolte]

I hear you, Brett. Thanks for that. I think you’re right.

[@Julia29853]

My son has apd, it’s wonderful that you are a musician! He never got into music much except for listening.

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

Then, treat do re me only as a hat it is - an accessibility tool. Why in the world all healthy people need to “learn” it? It is pure stupidity 😂😂. I am so so so upset when I have finally realized it thanks to this video! 😂😢. I am going to completely ban anybody trying to do it front of me accurately-I can tolerate using it as a tool to roughly/vaguely to mark the relative pitch value of, like, fa is higher than do ! That is just about it. Any thing more, is pure stupidity.

[@andrewmullen2622]

Trick: The last sharp is Ti. The last flat is Fa. That works for major, minor, dorian, etc.

[@purevoicepowercoaching7602]

For calligraphy it's key first, then time signature. This will be a useful video for many - thank you for your attention to detail! ♪♫

[@majorbarbara1]

Thanks Aimee for explaining Solfege as I always wondered what some singers in chorus were doing with those hand signals. I was relieved to hear you say that the last exercise was something you might encounter in your 4th semester of sight singing class. I really appreciated your talking about the moveable "Do" as it pertains to the key signature. Since I can visualize the piano keyboard, I'm going to skip learning the hand gestures but the syllables might help with remembering the relative pitches.

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

@@majorbarbara1 she also said that if you can help, do not learn it! And, I may add, if you can help, just learn the watered down version, the “fixed do”. It is actually more flexible for “relative pitch”! The only thing solfège, the hardcore “movable do” version, is to make simple thing easier. It can “help” to make simple songs even easier. But it makes complex choirs impossible! Worse, because instruments are routinely going to a complexity level pop singers do not do, eg chords, it makes instrumentalists miserable, like the video said in the beginning and end.

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

About why it makes simple things simpler: it is tonality, which is NOT relative pitch! The two are indeed closely related; but tonality is much more than relative pitch, so, it is much more restrictive! For relative pitch, we do not need solfège， all pitch-based musical activities, ie, other than drums, can reinforce it. What solfège can help and reinforce is the tonality. But, here is the thing, do we really need a mechanical way to reinforce tonality? The answer is a big big NO !! For 2 reasons: 1. for simple songs, we can feel it easily. No need to reinforce it. 2. For complex ones, it keeps changing, we should be able to adapt to it at any time, mechanically reinforcing is bad. For more recent music, it is even more evident that “keep changing tonality” is part of musicality.

[@xabulidema9454]

Fixed "do" is when people do not understand that hearing and singing is relative. I cannot imagine how it should work. I learned solfége at school beginning at the age of 6 with "realtive solmisation", which means "moveable do". It took then about 4-5 years and I could read notes like letters. It was not any more necessary to say "do, re, mi", it is enough to see the notes and look which is the "do" or "la". That is the same as reading text: a motor skill in the brain. That is why solfége is a great thing.

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

@@xabulidema9454 you should go to Taiwan Singapore China to find a more systematic and extreme form of your approach: they are using a system that completely abandons the traditional notation of staves. It is directly 1234567. But, it creates huge problems - it is nuts.

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

As she suggested, do not use solfège if you do not learn for a piece of paper, the diploma. If you really need to “learn” it, learn the watered down version to “deal with” it, ie, use the “fixed do” version. It is nothing, just a synonym system: cdefgab are directly and mechanical translated into synonyms as do re me fa sol la ti. Period. Nothing more.

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

It is a watered down version by design.

[@xabulidema9454]

@@gabrielgracenathanana1713 Sorry, I am not interested what happens in China. I am European and my topic is the european music and ear training. The scructure of this music is relative, that is why relative solmization works soo good for ear training. If you want only to learn piano playing, and yes, this is possible to a certain extent to learn piano without a well trained ear, then you dont need relative solmization. It is enough to keep in mind which key you press at what time. There are piano players, who cannot transpose a piece during sight reading, and there are others who can transpose without any effort. That ist the difference if your play is finger-based or ear-based. The piano player doesn't have the problem of having to produce the right pitch, the piano tuner does that. But a singer must find the exactly correct pitch himself. He needs for that a relative structure in his mind and ear. And that he can get learnig relative solmization and other ear training topics, like harmony. And repeatedly: We are not speaking about notation. We are speaking about a process in your mind to be able to hear music if you see a score. But I understand, people who don't hear, cannot imagine how this works.

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

@@xabulidema9454 the system in Taiwan etc shows how bad it can be and exposes the real nature of this “movable do”. One thing I am interested in is, are you saying in non-English speaking Europe, schools and colleges also do the “movable do” thing? I thought they are wiser 😀😄

[@eraniel146]

So frustrating to me in school..you make it more palatable..but I have to come back to this one..

[@lloydcooper7451]

Great video. Just nit picking, but your last example you said was in common time, but the written time signature is cut time.

[@vapourmile]

@Aimee Nolte Music: For me the difference between fixed Do and movable Do is the same as the difference between relative pitch and perfect pitch. If you have perfect pitch then movable do is confusing because the pitch of the words keeps changing depending on what key you're using. If you have relative pitch then fixed-Do is confusing because the words for the scale degrees keep changing depending on what key you're using.

[@AliArt]

Exactly

[@robertpien8708]

This is an awesome way I wish they would have taught when I went to college this method it would have been great for drummers you don't have any way of understanding pitch in the beginning. Plus the more anchors you have that you can connect to will help you strengthen whatever you're focusing on how to learn piano when I went to college which was good thank you for talking about this

[@JonFrumTheFirst]

Solfege is great for instumentalists - who don't already have Aimee's great ear. It teaches relative pitch, and the syllables separate out the pitches. When you have to sing 'sol,' it reinforces the pitch on you, whereas 'la' for every note gives no such reinforcement. Of course, some of us (that is, you) don't need the reinforcement! I did.

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

@@JonFrumTheFirst no! I am relative pitch-er, like 99% of us. And I am learning to play piano, jazz. If you play jazz, you will find how ridiculous those solfège “techniques” are - one thing lead to another, one trouble after another - then, you ask your self, where is the music?!! If you have to follow your friends, be social,5then, pick up the watered down version, the “fixed do”. It is just a synonym system from cdefgab to do re me fa sol la ti. The “relative pitch” should not be encoded or “enforced” in those “techniques”. It should be cultivated during the process of the whole music listening, enjoying, appreciating. “Relative pitch “ is a very subtle delicate thing. Encoding it in such a crude system is criminal.

[@xabulidema9454]

@@gabrielgracenathanana1713 It is criminal? Or you simply don't understand it. Try to transpose a jazz piano piece you play. Or try to notate a new piece by ear, which you never heard before. And you will see what you are missing. But I agree, to reach such level takes long time, and therefore students don't like it and think, that something is criminal here.

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

@@xabulidema9454 thank you! 🙏 I will keep that in mind. Actually, I already agree (and begin to use) I II III IV V VI VII and “scale degree”. But because I got tortured so much by those solfège and “movable do” as the foundation or “basics”, I really have to emphasize that C4 is C4! It is a physical frequency, for got sake! It is that simple. And music is that simple. No need to complicate it unnecessarily. When we need scale degrees, then, we use them. But I feel solfège, and especially “movable do” makes it prematurely difficult. It messes up everybody, except a few genius/elite. Perhaps that is the original plan 😀? Seriously, is the school using it as a filter to get a few elite? I now kind of feel it is the case, regardless it is originally intended or not. I checked, in “music theory”, everybody uses cdefgab, so, in a sense, everybody knows a little piano keyboard. So, solfège itself is really not necessary, and, the when needed, we can always use Roman numbers for “scale degrees”. In summary, there are 2 levels, to mix them, to confuse them, is not right.

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

Actually, C4 is C4 does not mean C is C. the concept of “C” by itself is leading toward relative pitch, hence the “movable do”. I have to admit that! I but having the tendency is not the same as we must use solfège or “movable do”. It just means strictly, there are 3 levels. C4, C, I . We should not mix them. The real problem of “movable do” is when we have dynamic tonics. But nowadays, it is pretty often. I do not want to have a mindset of always being afraid, of fear, afraid of there will be a situation that I cannot handle, the dynamic tonics.

[@xabulidema9454]

@gabrielgracenathanana1713 In my childhood, that was in Hungary, every child at school learned solfege wirh movable do at regular schools. 90 percent of them had no problems. In the music school solfege was compulsory and nobody had a problem with it. The result were school choirs who could learn pieces in shortest time about schools in Germany, where no ear training at all was teached, could not even dream. So, for example if a modulation comes, you move the do in your head and hear immediatelly what to sing. Try to learn modern choral pieces from Schönberg or Strawinsky without any solfege in your head. You will fail. And a C ist always a C? Yes, if you only want to press a key. And no, if it is a third in an A flat major chord, or a fifth in a F major chord or the base in a C major chord. There is even a difference to a C minor chord, even if you sing the same frequency. I could continue with a D major seventh chord or a C sharp major seventh chord. If you have to sing the C in all this chords, and have to find the correct pitch alone, without having a key to hit, you will understand how useful it is having a well educated ear, using solfege. Millions of people on earth can do this. Thinking, thar solfege is to select some kind of elite is only your fantasy, or it is a conspiracy theory. It is much more probable, that you had simply the wrong teacher while learning solfege. And please understand, music is not only hitting keys on a piano. Singing, playind violine where you have to find the correct pitch yourself belong also to music. Also notation by ear, improvising to a melody without scores, only by hearing (you wanted to make jazz) is also music. Having the imagination, that you only have to hit keys is too simple and will limit you to a low beginners level.

[@Abbey4294]

For people with non-English speaking background, solfege numerals come more natural than musical alphabets. I found the movable solfege is most useful when sight-singing or even piano playing. However, people tend to look down on it.

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

@@Abbey4294 they are right to look down on it! It is bad for instruments. She also agrees that!!

[@xabulidema9454]

@@gabrielgracenathanana1713 Your answer implies, that learnig an instrument doesn't need well trained auditive skills, as a trained ear. This may apply for keyboard instruments at a certain low level, but try to learn violine, or try to notate music by ear.

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

@ but how about Aimee? She definitely does not recommend solfège, even out of her kindness to help less fortunate people 😀 she still teaches it. She made it very clear. I thank her so much. I always thought it was just me, as you said, my low level of musicality and techniques. She is such a liberator 😀😂

[@victorsixtythree]

1:45 - "She taught those seven little kids the seven notes of the diatonic scale. Coincidence? I think not." There really were seven von Trapp children though. So, yes that's a coincidence and not something made up for the movie. (The last of the seven von Trapp children died fairly recently, in 2014 at age 99.)

[@MrRezillo]

I play trumpet and sing, and am learning piano with your help, Aimee. This is very interesting, as I've totally misunderstood solfege. I thought the point of it was just to improve your articulation and strengthen your vocal chops. I found ALL the solfege syllables for the chromatic scale, ascending and descending and mostly I use them to practice singing chromatic scales and arpeggios on jazz chords. Just my two cents. Thanks for all your vids!

[@steveosoro5785]

Thanks Aimee!

[@tex24]

Very helpful video!

[@Des_Armoni]

this is exactly what i was looking for!!!!!! i love this channel

[@JohnResciniti]

Morton Estrin. I'll never forget sight singing class, nor my professor. I think he's still around. He's a pianist. I remember him with his deep voice. Like he could sing the lowest note on the piano! I remember him breaking a string on his piano at a concert he gave us at his home studio. Never had to learn those stupid hand signs tho! Not until I met a colleague at my current gig. Movable Do is what Morty taught, and it's served me well!

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

Why ? Why you need movable do? Why you cannot just saying it without knowing the name of the key signatures? It is all relative! Also, why in the world just singing lalala or dadada is not enough - when you have a piano at your side? She said it is enough. Why do you twist her words? 😂 yes, she is teaching it, but she said clearly it is unnecessary and stupid “skills”! 😂

[@alwaysontop4]

This is very helpful for me!! Thanks Amy, you are great!

[@chilljlt]

So well done! Thank You

[@maheshrupadhyay1651]

Very useful Ma'am 👍

[@robinghoshmusic]

Congrats on 10,000 subs! Well deserved :)

[@rogeralleyne9257]

Great musical educational channel 🙏👍🙏🙏🙏

[@earlbrackett3837]

sightsinging is the end of the road for many a music major.

[@girlmusician24]

Earl Brackett not exactly. There’s the number system for musicians who have a hard time with traditional ear training classes. Taking a modern musicianship class is how I got my degree.

[@girlmusician24]

I hated solfege when I was in college. I’m going to try and embrace it so I can improve my site singing for the private lessons I am taking in voice.

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

Why? Do you really need the education? Why cannot just take another major but still learn the real music?

[@xabulidema9454]

@@gabrielgracenathanana1713 As a professional singer (e.g. like Voces8) it is not enough to learn just the pieces you sing. Without such education is the level of your intonation, finding exact pithes, is limited. And what do you think about the speed and time required to learn new music if you can sight read = you have trained ears.

[@mattslazik]

I play the piano and trombone, and never really saw the usefulness of singing/ sight singing. At band camp we had a sight singing class, and learning sight singing really changed things for me. Especially now since now that I compose and am slowly developing perfect pitch, I realize how vital it can be. Anyways, thanks for the video.

[@AimeeNolte]

Matt SLAZIK that's great! I'm glad it's helpful to you.

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

Give me a break! You gradually developed perfect pitch? Joke😂😂😂

[@xabulidema9454]

@@gabrielgracenathanana1713 That is often observed. People develop a perfect pitch, especially for their instrument. Piano tuners can very often say wich key you hit, without seeing it, but they don't have a real perfect pitch in other relations, so they cannot sey the pitch if they hear squeling brakes on the street. In my young years at school we tried to learn the pitch of a tunink fork. It works. If you listen it many times a day, after some weeks you can give the pitch of it surprisingly exact. But if you stop listening to it, you loose this ability. People with perfect pitch differ also. Some of them hear the pitch in every situation also non musical noises, other only if they hear music.

[@wonderlanddreamer1021]

I was taught Solfege as a child for flute (I'm from Western Europe) and I stopped playing for a few years. Now I'm getting back into playing using the internet and books as refreshers. Its like learning a new language almost and the lettering system is killing me 😭

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

Why? She said that it is not needed for real music education. You learn it only for stupidity, piece of paper of courses.

[@michaelelder3945]

The book for learning Solfeggio is "Melodia: A Course in Sight-Singing Solfeggio, Books I-IV" by Samuel W. Cole & Leo R. Lewis. It was published in 1910 and it still works. But I didn't know about the hand signals before your video. (I admit that I only "skimmed" through your video.)

[@jorgeparr3002]

You are SIMPLY TERRIFIC AIMEE 😀 THANK YOU SOOOOOOOOOO MUCH!!!!

[@bobwrotenstien315]

Great insight, that it is singers who really benefit from this. As a keyboard player I always wondered why you would use such a complicated system to understand intervals and the diatonic system...I mean you always use numbers to explain common concepts that apply to any key like a major 6th interval or a ii-V-I progression. The names of the notes remain fixed. But I guess a singer doesn't want to be singing "one is when I win the game, two a way to say also, three an name for one-one-one, four a bad bad shot in golf, five is brubeck's famous song, six a long long way to jump, seven it leads right back to one, and now we start right back at...."

[@hansencarriek]

Scale degrees. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 (do re mi, etc). That's why the chord numbers make sense. I'm equally an instrumentalist and singer but to me scale degrees (numbers) make much more sense. Still, I'm re-learning solfege so I can more easily help my middle school choir learn to sightsing.

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

Learn “fixed do”, forget about the stupid “movable do”. Do not torture your students.😂

[@bluekingdom6301]

I learnt a lot from your lesson brilliant. Could you possibly send me all of the solfège syllables. I really appreciate it not great lesson thanks

[@AimeeNolte]

You can google them!

[@caseymattson5872]

Thanks! Great video Aimee! I'm a huge movable do fan! I think its great to solf' a bop solo and learn it in some different keys, Yardbird suite or something of this nature.

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

Stupidity 😂😢

[@Andresv586]

i study music in colombia, and how i've been learning is whenever i sing rhythm i can say whatever i want, ta te ti taka teke coco momo, it doesnt matter, all that matters it that i can read the rhythm. and as far as solfege goes, we use do re mi fa sol la si do for EVERY KEY and NO HAND SIGNALS. the sharps and flats are implied, no need to say give them a name. its not movable do though, like if youre in e major you say mi fa sol la si do re mi, already knowing which ones are sharp and which arent. movable do and hand signals just seems like a lot of unnecessary extra work, on top of sight singing being hard you add more hard stuff to it? its like they want you to fail

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

Great!! I agree totally. I have been using this approach, I thought I am alone! Thank you for sharing!

[@JorgeFuego-v4g]

I haven't had to read music in a long time. Could you please send me more information on this subject?

[@politereminder6284]

I am a lifelong singer just learning piano. I use solfage in my head to keep things straight sometimes because I don't know the instrument well yet.

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

Exactly! If your education is good, reasonable, healthy, you would not need this kind of tortuous and stupid “skills”. Right?😂

[@politereminder6284]

@gabrielgracenathanana1713 EDITED : I can see from your comments that you are a generally a RUDE person who does not respect other's ways of doing things 🙄.

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

@ you need to understand, this “other way” is the “standard way”, the “mainstream way”, “THE way”. If you are not bold and “rude”, you will be trapped in it forever! Sorry for my “rudeness “! I invented my way for a while and suddenly realized that the “standard” is just a stupidity! Considering the level of musicality of English speaking world and Chinese speaking world, I would say it may have “contributed” to that. It is a bad tradition and is nothing to be proud of! Let’s not use it. And, let’s use “fixed do”.

[@julianvillalba7997]

You sound soooo cute saying DO RE MI...especially SI, which sounds more like "TI". Love your vids. Greetings from Argentina!!!

[@AimeeNolte]

+Julian Villalba in the states, we say ti! :)

[@wyattstevens8574]

I've just started learning the hand signals, and I believe you that it's more complicated than it seems. It isn't too hard, though. I found an explanation on Preschool Prodigies (for the diatonic hand signals) but I'm going to learn the chromatic ones too!

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

Why? For music, or, to get a piece of paper?

[@wyattstevens8574]

@@gabrielgracenathanana1713 Just music. I didn't even go to school for that!

[@maxlensherr]

Nice video, I want to learn this but when it came to singing 9:44 it was too advanced for me, I don't know how to sing the notes from just seeing the sheet music. Can you recommend some videos to learn that so I can sing along easily?

[@AimeeNolte]

I’d say to just get a book of sight singing exercises and start simple. You need melodies youve never heard before. A book of them is probably the best way to practice

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

It is obvious that she is not enthusiastic about this stupidity! Why you cannot pick up the tune😂😂

[@AnssiRauhala]

I thought: "Great. That'll wipe out the rest of my weekend", then those last 45 seconds of your words kind of saved me. I trust your judgment and leave solfege aside, for a while at least. Happily klinking away on my Cheapo™ keyboard while looking for a second-hand piano somewhere, I think I'll keep busy enough. Just beginning to get some basic understanding of keyboards, at the ripe old age of fiftysomething, I thank you, Aimee, from the very bottom of my heart.

[@AimeeNolte]

Anssi Rauhala thanks for sticking with me to the end! I'm glad to have saved you a little bit of grief! LOL you are very welcome and thank you very much for watching and for your nice comment.

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

@@AimeeNoltebravo! Smart people got the message-no do re me! Especially no “movable do”!

[@galyasmirnova1415]

Thanks for a great video, Aimee! It really made me think it all over. I'm from Ukraine; and it's one of those countries where fixed Do" is used. So, to me, singing Do,Re, Mi when I'm, for example, sight-sing in F major means transposing to C major. And whatever key I'd pick, an attempt to use movable Do would only mean transposing to C major; as I would but unwillingly imagine myself playing in C major while singing really in a different key. But, that's simply because Do,Re, Mi are fot me what c,d,e are for you - the names of the notes that make us think of specific keys on the piano. And for you those Do,Re , Mi must be like synonyms of scales degrees like 1,2,3 ; not names of specific keys. Does that make sense to you? Also, why don't you sing a , b , c if those are really the names of the notes for you? Because it obscures tonal relationships? And, btw, when we need to sind in C sharp major or any other key with sharps or flats , and sing fast, we'd jast drop those words"sharp"and "flat" and be only imagining the right keys.

[@AimeeNolte]

Yes all of that makes sense. I find it fascinating as I teach people from all over the world, the different ways we have of thinking about the same thing.❤️

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

I come from the movable do culture, the eastern Asian, Taiwan China Singapore…. But after watching this, I finally understand that I have been inventing “my own way” for a long time, struggling with the “system”! But now I know, my “my own way” is actually the Ukrainian way! My goodness! Thank you so much! Also, in jazz, the black keys are all over the place, who cares about the do re me?! just sing lalala or dadada, do not mention adding “sharp” “flat” to them! Those do re me are useful just as synonyms-implying-inaccuracy of cdef . That is really their real role - the inaccurate buttons for the inaccurate human-instrument😂😂. If you need more accuracy, use cdef.

[@boomerbear7596]

Ever since I learned about the Roman numeral chord numbering (I, V, vi, etc.) I have always viewed the solfege as an equivalent of that only for individual melodic notes themselves. I have myself also had an encounter with fixed do where a song was indicated as being in re minor and it was in A minor, therefore apparently making A "re" which would have made G "do". Remarkably the fixed do note of choice wasn't even C!

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

Just stupidity 😢 you make it so difficult. Can you really sight-singing? Or just pretend you can ? 😂😢

[@angelamwatts]

Hello. I take private vocal lessons and I also sing in choir. For advanced choirs, the vocalist absolutely must know solfage. I failed my audition for this one choir because the audition was brutal. The choir director tested the vocalist on solfage singing both the major and minor scales in addition to vocal technique. I am doing better with solfage but still not good enough to pass the audition. It takes a lot of practice and focus. As far as vocal technique goes, I sing well enough to pass. That choir is rough because they sing complicated pieces of music.

[@MichelleyB-zk3eh]

I admire your dedication and focus! Best of luck with your next choir audition

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

You use “fixed do”, right? Since you said “complicated music”. In my humble opinion,,the “movable do” is just a stupid confused professor’s invention to try to confuse students and keep his job. “Movable do” cannot handle complicated music. It makes easy things easier (so easy that makes it confusing), but makes complicated things impossible! Human vocals are just like another instrument. Treat it as another instrument! All instruments use fixed do. Why vocal-instrument should be the exception 😀😩

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

The key is tonality. If the choir needs to change tonality dynamically and flexibly, then, “movable do” is trouble!! And, if we do not change tonality, what a boring song 😀, it is so simple, why we even need solfège, just do it casually, with lalala ! So, just sing the cdefgab, or, “fixed do” would be great.

[@angelamwatts]

@@gabrielgracenathanana1713 I use movable do because it correlates with the tonic note of the key signature and therefore it's easier to move between the degrees of the scales. The reason why movable do is much more valuable for what I need than fixed do is because it also enables musicians to transpose music into the key of the instrument that they're playing without having to literally rewrite the music in the key signature for their instrument. For example, if a piece of music is written in B flat major that music would have to be transposed into C major for trumpet. Many times a trumpet player will be provided with music written in a different key and by using movable do, the musician can transpose the music in their head easier by using movable do solfege syllables while playing it. A musician would have a harder time trying to transpose music for their instrument using fixed do because in fixed do, the note name of each solfege syllable stays the same and this may or may not be the tonic note depending on the scale. If a trumpet player had to transpose a piece of music without using solfege movable do, he/she would have to count a whole tone up from each note of the key that the music is written in thus making it very difficult to do. So, if you're playing an instrument and you need to transpose music then movable do is best. However, fixed do is important for conductors. Conductors cannot use movable do to conduct a choir. They would use fixed do. After looking at this a little closer, I learned that both moveable do and fixed do are equally important but for a different purpose. It all depends what you're doing in music. I sing and I play the trumpet 🎺. If you're not a musician or a conductor, then both moveable do and fixed do will work fine. If you are a musician and need to transpose music then you need to use movable do which also works well with choral singing.

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

@ very well explained. I have to depend on musescore to digitally transpose it. But a more important way is to develop the sense of keep it short-range relative - neighbor-relative, instead of tonality-relative. I believe the latter is better - easier and more flexible, especially for pieces that change tonality often.

[@kimcederholm2960]

Thanks for the lesson! But when not using solfege I guess you still target/identify each note based on its quality in relation to the root of the key and/or the chord, instead of just hearing the interval from the previous note. But you are probably so far beyond having to use a consious method :)

[@AimeeNolte]

Kim Cederholm everybody is different when it comes to this. I do have a video about developing perfect pitch that might be of interest to you. Also another video about ear training. Thanks so much for watching!

[@kimcederholm2960]

Aimee Nolte Ok, great! Thank you for the amazing livestream by the way! :)

[@powermetallistic2293]

I don't relate them to the root. I mean let's say you wanna go from la to fa, you need 2 notes in your ears, and now you would suddenly need the root aswell. 3 notes instead of 2. But yes, everyone is different. :D

[@belkyhernandez8281]

I am not a music major. When I was a child my piano teacher would have me do solfeo a few minutes every lesson. She would move my hands to the time signature I think. I barely remember. But I notice other piano students don't mention doing this. That was nearly 40 years ago and I still don't know what the point was. If someone has a theory I would like to hear it. I think she probably cared more for the sight reading aspect than the signing? Also, my lessons were all in Spanish so I don't know if that played into it. And the lessons followed the Royal Academy of something.

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

Just use fixed-do, ie, treat do re me as synonymous of cdef. That is the only way. All other ways are just stupidity show off. She clearly but nicely said that! Pay attention!

[@Someone-hx5cr]

It is easier to sing with you but I'm surprisingly better than I thought I was considering I don't sing

[@richardzhou6775]

Hi Aimee, when you sing the node in phrygia mode, do you start to sing the tonal node as Mi or as Do? I feel Mi makes more sense since in the relative major scale, that node spell is Mi. Thank you for answering my question.

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

Good question! Just use “fixed do”.

[@richardzhou6775]

@gabrielgracenathanana1713 Thank you so much! That's exactly what I have been doing.

[@dandiacal]

Well you must have loved my story about me doing the Wynton Kelly solo for that classical Solfege class! And trying to get the whole class to do it with me. They couldn't. NEC 1987.

[@mattself266]

At 14 I learned to whistle melodies and "run it back" at any speed I chose, or even hold a note until I found it on my instrument. After using this "cheat" for a while I realized that I rarely had to whistle anymore. I just knew how to play it by hearing the recording. I was unaware of solfege. I grew up in the South, so shape note hymnals were everywhere but nobody ever explained what the shapes meant. Also, any music lessons I had never involved any mention of solfege. About 5 years ago I was exposed to the Dick Grove concept of "See It Hear It Hear It Play It". It is essentially a solfege/sight singing/theory lesson series. I realized that I had been using a form of solfege all along with my "whistle" technique. I really wish I had been exposed to it earlier. I think it would have helped my actual sight reading skills. I think your garden variety piano teacher is intimidated by ear training. They find comfort in the concrete reality of "play this note for this long and you will be right" piano method book approach. Something you said in another video struck me. You said something along the lines of "your ear is fine, you just aren't listening to enough complex music". I think intentionally listening to more complex piano work and using my old "whistle method" and solfege techniques would be a good way to advance my own playing.

[@AimeeNolte]

+matt self totally totally agree!!!

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

Agree! I used whistle also! Human is just an instrument! So, listen more. But forget about solfège! Especially the “movable do”😢😂

[@sarahabreu1746]

I am still not grasping solfege sight singing after this video, even though you’re a great teacher! The only way I have found so far is to write out what the solfege is before I try to sing it, but obviously one can’t do that In choir or an exam where you have to sing it on the spot! I don’t understand how you can just look and immediately see the las and sos and res.. I have to count on my fingers and really think about it. Even your simple sight singalong feels to advanced for me. Do you have any advice for how I can get this down?

[@majorbarbara1]

I have the same difficulty and I can only assume that practicing it over and over makes it easier but my first thought was-let me write the syllables under the notes.

[@AimeeNolte]

Maybe look for some beginning solfege tutorials on KZbin. Or buy a book. Start slowly. Don’t beat yourself up if it doesn’t come quickly

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

1. Treat it as a hoax! Stupidity. Not a good useful technique. 2: so, the best way is to “deal”with it the simplest way. So, use “fixed do”, which do re me is simply the synonym of piano keys of cde . You can certainly sing the c d e … can’t you? 3. Even singing c d e is not necessary. Just saying lalala or dadada or nnnnn or mmmmm, whatever comfortable for you . The “sharp” and “flat” are “implied”, ie, you try to make the pitch accurate, but do not care about the names. 3. That is my experience, also derived from what she said in the video!

[@dmwkhoegdna]

Hello Aimee! I don't quite understand how you sing the melody in F-major at 11:23. Does it work so that while you read notes you immediately understand for each note, what is it in F-major? I mean in first measure you sing (A-G) and that's 3-2, in second you sing F-D-C and that't 1-6-5, etc? But looks like that is what you do on second time, when you sing it in movable Do system, but first time you just sing it. It was even before you say that it's actually F-major and not D-minor. So I'm confused! Or do you remember how each note sounds, remember the pitch? Thanks!

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

Use fix-do. That is the only way. You guessed it! All other stuff is just stupidity mechanically memorized stupidity 😂😢

[@alansean1205]

Are singer like justin bieber and ed Sheeran use this solfage technique or how they sing notes of the song with different strumming chourds on guitar I see them sing without any paper or music sheet does he have notes in his head or how he sing it 😥

[@alexrus5495]

Very interesting, I've never heard about movable do. Here in Russia we don't use A-B-C system at all and every kid learns in kindergarten that DoReMiFaSolLaSi=C major scale(Do major, haha). The thought that one day Do may become B makes my brain hurt

[@luishem]

Same thing in most Spanish speaking countries. Movable do is less than an option for most people. But fixed do with accidental syllables (te, me, ra, etc) works great for a jazz student. Since you get used to the relationships of all 12 tones without the hinderance of a key signature.

[@AimeeNolte]

Ruslan Alexeev that's so interesting! Fixed do hurts my brain! LOL

[@6300nokiaify]

Ruslan Alexeev DO IS C... and yes here also.. C major is DO GROOT but in piano we must learn the CDEFGABC and DOREMIFASOLLASIDO... Sometimes very confusing

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

So, only English and Chinese use “movable do”? Those two stupidity countries 😢😂

[@GianlucaFraccalvieri]

Hi Aimee, thank you for the great video. I have a question. How do you sing the notes Cb, B#, Fb and E#? For exemple If I wanted to mix the movable do and the fixed do and I wanted to sing for example the Gb major scale. Should I sing "Se Le Te Cb? Ra Me Fa Se" what syllable would you use for Cb?

[@hansencarriek]

Great question. If you're singing a Gb major scale, Gb is DO. (You moved "DO" to be on Gb. So you'd still sing it DO RE MI FA SO LA TI DO.

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

No!! That question means we should not use “movable do”😂😢. Do not use solfège; if you really have to, use “fixed do”.

[@josephgould3832]

What if there was no need to learn sharps, flats and incidentals or even alphabetical names for notes. What if the "black keys" on the keyboard were represented separately shaped from oval notes so that they are clearly represented graphically on the staff? What if there were no "key signatures" to learn. Would it be more intuitive and easier to learn keyboard? Every note of the 12 tone system of music on every staff would have only one graphic staff representation for each twelve tone note which would resemble the keyboard's physical order of “black keys” and “white keys”. I have heard that some people see color with musical notes. My curiosity is whether they see a structured common color related to the solfege structure of music such as perhaps the colors of the natural rainbow red orange yellow green blue indigo violet, (R-O-Y-G-B-I-V ), possibly the colors visualized could be mapped to sound frequency alone, or whether every such person has their own personalized color mapping. If the colorization experience in humans is mapped to say, R-O-Y-G-B-I-V, it would be interesting to see if colorized notation in music would enhance choral music visualizations.

[@vickigsolomon1241]

I'm fascinated by the idea of singing colors. Except that Indigo isn't a separate color from violet. It was added to make the mystical 7. I also like the idea of each note having its own graphical way to be represented -- I'd use more lines and spaces, I think. But then all existing music would be obsolete.

[@josephgould3832]

@@vickigsolomon1241 Thanks for the remarks. In my first job I had a friend who would see colors in his head as snow snowflakes falling . it is not too common; though I never see colors in my head listening to music like he did ,I do on occasions have episodes where colored shapes pulse and roll around my central vision and then widen in shapes of circles. squares. triangles. and chevrons; sort of like looking though a child's kaleidoscope. My eye doctor said it this is not too common but is brought on similar to a migraine and can be treated with the same migraine medication; though migraine medication takes an hour or so to kick n my episodes are over in 20-45 minutes so I just sit back and enjoy them. While in the university university I changed an old upright Grand piano keyboard to be a chromatically correct keyboard with half steps between every white and black key. I then added a line to the musical staves so that note had equal graphical positioning on the staves as well. This made it so there were only two scales to learn for fingering and on could step up or down in full steps without changing finger playing patterns. i put feel markers on the two of each black keys in every octave similar to what is found on a typewriter keyboard so that the artist could always know they were still on the right keys. There are several dozen patents on such keyboards; however, with the millions or billions of music keyboards in existence it is highly unlikely that the keyboards on earth will ever change. ( I used the standard keyboard when I built my harpsichord afterwords.) I an now working on teaching accelerated piano and keyboard using a simplification of the oval note heads for the white keys and rectangular style note heads for the black keys of the keyboard on the standard five line staves eliminating the need for sharps and flats as well as the letter designation of the keys. I put the staff and note symbols on every key to begin with which match the standard musical staves. I leave the sharps and flats on the scores so that those who learned to use such devices can still play the accelerated scores where the sharp and flat symbols are altogether redundant and can be ignored. My intention is to accelerate my students ability to begin playing the keyboard while focusing on the real skills needed to read and play while focusing on the real importance best finger patterns and proper playing techniques. I spend zero time teaching A-G Sharps and Flats nomenclatures and stick to roman numeral designation of chord patterns and configurations in music theory. You can play a score samples from my Facebook Posts: if you like. facebook.com/joseph.gould.79/

[@vickigsolomon1241]

@@josephgould3832 Your keyboard reminds me of some I saw in music museum in Germany. They had pianos with multiple rows of keys! Your visual migraines sound more fun than mine too. Mine are just black and white lightning bolts in a C shape. Mine are also over in 20-45 minutes. I can't drive while I've got them, though.

[@LearnSwingGuitar]

Great video! BTW, my own experience with this is that as a guitar player, and also at one point a classical singer, I've found this stuff difficult without some sort of solfeggi system - maybe not the full Kodaly with the wibbly hand gestures, though this is great for the kids. I think the important thing for tonal music is what we might call functional ear training - based on scale degrees. Whether you use 1 2 3 4 or DO RE MI FA is probably not terribly important, but I think this is something that is natural to the piano where the keys are laid out left to right, and there is a simple mapping from music notation to the keyboard. I think there is more of a chance that pianists can pick this up by intuition - if not outright perfect pitch if they start at an early age. Guitarists on the other hand are more like singers. Most things - notation, bebop lines, CST, chord construction make more sense at the piano. I actually almost think of the piano keyboard when playing the guitar even though I can't really play piano! I don't think it is natural to the guitar. Most guitarists are also poor readers, so that notation/instrument/ear connection is a bit dis-functional. A lot of guitar players spend their time doing interval training which is perhaps only useful when functional ear training has been mastered. At least that's what my wife says and her ears are pretty badass - she's trained this way.

[@AimeeNolte]

Learn Gypsy Jazz and Swing Guitar wonderful insights. I agree with all of that. I have never thought about it in that way before though. Thank you so much.

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

It is circular- how do you train ear? By instruments! Not the so-called ear-training!! Yes, piano is the best way! So, every should learn basic piano. It is a much better way than learning the stupidity solfège and movable do and specialized ear-training! Learning playing piano and then other instruments, but the most important part of learning playing is to learn listening. It is so so so obvious and simple.

[@LearnSwingGuitar]

@@gabrielgracenathanana1713 seperating this out from solfeggio and concerning all of functional ear training, this would be an interesting discussion to have with someone who studied with Charles Banacos, like Mike Stern or Big Frisell, which is to say high level functional ear training. My current view is that most practical ear training happens at the gestalt level, not pitch by pitch. But there are some people who have relative pitch but have trained themselves to hear individual pitches within chords etc to a very high level. I also tend to find that playing by ear on my instrument seems to be a different thing

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

@ after getting help in a long discussion (see the thread with 20 replies) I now know what countries doing what, movable-do or fixed-do, and why we should really be flexible about it. You are right, even most of us all have only relative pitch, but we can train ourselves to make it accurate enough to tell chords’ tone. If we are flexible enough, we can train ourselves’ ears while playing, playing by ear.

[@yaakovhassoun8965]

I do solfege but the hand signals seem rediculous?

[@joahchewbhaka5679]

I think that here in Brazil it would be pretty hard to move "do".

[@AimeeNolte]

Yeah...it’s probably stuck. 😂

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

Good! Fixed-do! That is the only right way!

[@jbspanish9534]

Seven days of the week, music is heptatonic. Coincidence or not?

[@rockstarjazzcat]

"Yes, you're right!" :-)

[@rockstarjazzcat]

...hey! I bought sight singing books today! Lol.

[@uncletimmy6092]

I've been playing violin for ten years and I've never actually thought to visualise it to help me sight sing. Huh.

[@PabloCardonaMusic]

Geez this is complicated since in spanish and portuguese we don't use CDEFGAB for the notes when doing solfege but Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Si, so if we are in F major the 3rd degree isnt Mi but La, and your Do would be my Fa...

[@magicbuskey]

Is there a reason why a person should learn do re mi rather than 1 2 3 . I would think numbers would reinforce the I V ii concept. Advice?

[@AimeeNolte]

magicbuskey if 123 works for you, that's probably a great idea! Again, I don't think anyone would ever want to hear you sing numbers like that, but if it helps you to work out the pitches in your own practice time, I think that's really good.

[@JonFrumTheFirst]

When you have accidentals, you need two syllables for each note - unless you rush the flatthree or sharptwo. Then there's seven.

[@MaggaraMarine]

@@JonFrumTheFirst I know an old comment. But honestly, I don't see this as an issue. When you get to the level where you would be signing highly chromatic stuff, you no longer should feel the need to sing the position of each note in relation to the key out loud. Of course singing it out loud reinforces the sound of these concepts and makes you more aware of them, but you could just sing "la la la la", and still understand these relationships. Just because I'm not singing any particular syllables doesn't mean I'm not thinking about these concepts. In fixed Do, you just sing the unaltered version of the note, even if it has a sharp or a flat. A#, A natural and Ab are all sung as "La" in fixed Do. Similarly, the lowered 3rd could still be sung as "3". Also, when you are at that level (where chromatic notes such as the #2 would be used), this shouldn't really be an issue. And if it's an issue, I would say that you should actually practice more of the basics (100% diatonic stuff). There's no point with introducing chromaticism before you can confidently sing diatonic stuff. Chromatic stuff is often heard in relation to diatonic stuff, and for example I would think #2 as a "leading tone" of the 3rd. I would first imagine the note that I'm targeting (the 3rd scale degree), and then just sing the note that leads to that note a half step below. It would also be possible to create a number system where you would for example add an "f" for flat and an "s" for sharp at the end. For example #2 could be twos, and b3 would be threef. Sounds a bit dumb, but that would be quite easy (if you feel like it's necessary). Personally, I find that the number system is a lot more direct way of referring to the position of the notes in relation to the tonal center. If I hear that it's the 3rd note of the scale, why should I come up with a new name for that note, when I could just call it "3"? It's just more intuitive to me.

[@JonFrumTheFirst]

@@MaggaraMarine Chromatic notes are quite common in standard tunes, and were so back in the early 20th century. You get them as neighbor tones early on, and then as chord tones when non-diatonic chords were used more often. Solfege has been used for a thousand years. It must work pretty well to last that long. They did know one through seven as well as we did.

[@MaggaraMarine]

@@JonFrumTheFirst Sure, chromatic notes are common, I'm not denying that. But if you learn to sight sing, you should first start with diatonic stuff. Once you get comfortable with the diatonic scale, you should start adding chromatic notes (first the typical raised 7th and 6th of the minor scale, and then probably the raised 4th and lowered 7th that are chord tones of the most common secondary dominants). If you aren't comfortable with diatonic stuff, chromatic stuff is going to be difficult. When it comes to solfege having a long history behind it, that's true, but the system has changed quite a bit over the years. Movable do solfege is a fairly new concept. Well, it's like 100 years old, but that's still quite recent if you think about the history of music. Hexachord solfege was the "original" solfege that was used during the medieval and renaissance periods. It was still used by some during the 17th and 18th century, even though it was already kind of an outdated concept (music was no longer really based on hexachords - it was based on the major and minor keys). Scale degree-based thinking is an even newer concept. Functional harmony was "invented" in 1722 by Rameau, but roman numeral analysis was only popularized 100 years after that. And I would guess that's where the idea of "thinking in scale degree numbers" comes from. (BTW, when it comes to solfege, there's tonic-Do system and La-based minor system. Tonic-Do is more modern, and I don't think it has been in use for that long. The original Kodaly system - that isn't really the origin of movable Do, but is the system that popularized its use - had La-based minor, Re-based Dorian, Fa-based Lydian, etc.) IMO, since we already use scale degree numbers for describing chord progressions, I just don't know why we should use a different system for melodies. My point here is, yes, solfege is an old system, but it has changed a lot during the years. The only thing in common with the "tonic-Do" system that we use today and the "original" system is the syllables. But those syllables are used to mean completely different things. In tonic-Do, Do is always the tonic. In the original hexachord system, the syllables only told you the position in the hexachord (Mi-Fa was the half step). And Ti/Si didn't even exist. Also, Ut/Do-based modes weren't a thing back then either. And because the system has changed over the years, and we still use the same old syllables, even though they refer to a completely different thing now, I don't think making more changes to the system (to make it even more intuitive, and more easily applicable to modern music) is an issue. Another advantage of scale degrees (besides the fact that they are very intuitive - they instantly tell you about the relationship between the note and the tonal center, which is also what you hear when you listen to music - and BTW, the same can't necessarily be said about solfege, but this depends on whether you learn the tonic-Do system, or the original "Do-based major, La-based minor" system) is that there are also people who are familiar with the fixed-Do system. And to these people, movable-Do is really confusing. Scale degrees would get rid of this issue.

[@johansaputra3536]

Hi, is there any tips for passed the sight read test

[@davidchinda2747]

Nice talk Aimee, but do you advise instrumentalists to use solfeggio¿?

[@AimeeNolte]

+David Chinda no. Not really. Lol

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

@@AimeeNoltebravo!!

[@dandiacal]

It's interesting to note that all the solfeggi cats at NEC taught fixed Do, I suspect in part because of the influence of the avant-garde (serialism still big at that time) and they probably thought moveable Do was like propaganda for Western tonality or something :)

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

No! English and Chinese are the two major cultures to use the “movable do”. Two stupid countries 😂😢. I am from both😂😂. Suffered fully in the “movable do”. Very stupid.

[@6300nokiaify]

In België (flamish) we use solfege, also for music theory DO RE MI FA SOL LA SI DO...also for piano, CEG=DO MI SOL.. G=SOL SI RE. and we must learn the two languages... BTW, black Keys flat example : RE kruis, Mi mol... En no TI it's SI

[@AimeeNolte]

SHO GANAI very interesting!

[@m.e.4653]

thoughts on switching ´do´ in minor keys (to the 6th)? (seen both methods used) (love your videos)

[@AimeeNolte]

If you are in the key of a minor, do is C.

[@hansencarriek]

You can keep "do" as the tonic in minor keys. The natural minor form would be "do re me fa so le te do." Note the flatted "me" (instead of mi), "le" (instead of la) and "te" (instead of ti). To me, this makes more sense from a theory standpoint as it keeps "do" as "1" and recognizes that the 3rd, 6th, and 7th degrees are flatted. Most educators I know who use solfege, opt for "la" to be the tonic as you describe, though. I get it (it usually means fewer of the "chromatic" syllables) but in analysis it's just... weird to me personally.

[@sabinmarcusan2537]

It’s like an audition tape. But yeah still good for sight singing novices like me

[@callmejeffbob]

Indian solfege= Sa Re Ga ma Pa Dha Ni Sa . A lot of Indian classical singers sing their improvised lines using the solfege. Fun fact (aka useless information): George Harrison, who was a lover of Indian music, named his son "Dhani", in homage to the 6th and 7th degree of the scale.

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

Why Indian is so special? Why ? Historical? How many years ago? Must some real weirdo 😂😢

[@callmejeffbob]

@@gabrielgracenathanana1713 Hmm...It's always a little strange to see a response to a comment I wrote over a year ago and had completely forgotten. However, I was simply pointing out that in some types of Indian classical singing (in both the Hindustani and Carnatic traditions) that the singers actually incorporate solfege syllables into improvised performances, whereas in western music solfege singing is mainly used as a tool in ear training and sight reading. That's all I was saying. To your other points; yes Indian classical music has a very long history dating back well over a thousand years- several ragas are described in the ancient Sanskrit texts known as the "Vedas". However, the music has evolved significantly over the centuries, and is still a living tradition today. Even though many of the masters of the 20th century are no longer with us, there are great younger musicians and singers active today (Kala Ramnath, Debashish Bhattacharya, Shankar Mahadevan, etc,). You ask: why is Indian music so special? It is a virtuoso tradition; the melodic nuances of the many ragas and the rhythmic complexities of the various talas (rhythm cycles) take years of disciplined study to master. A concert by a great master can be extremely exciting, depending of course on whether or not you like this type of music. If you get a chance, go see Debashish Bhattacharya in concert. He plays slide guitar on several types of heavily modified guitars that he designed. His performances are astounding. Additionally, the influence of Indian music on many American and European musicians in various genres (jazz, rock, classical and even bluegrass musicians such as Jerry Douglas) has been significant. And of course many classically trained Indian musicians have made some incredible collaborative recordings with musicians from the U.S. and Europe. None more so than the great tabla drum virtuoso Zakir Hussein, who sadly passed away about a month ago. His discography is immense to say the least, having recorded with many of the great Indian instrumentalists and singers (Ravi Shankar. Vilayet Khan, Girija Devi, U. Srinivas, Dr. M. Balimurali Krishna, Shivkumar Sharma, L. Shankar, and dozens more), as well as many jazz musicians, including of course John McLaughlin in the band "Shakti", but also Charles Lloyd, Dave Holland, Bela Fleck, John Handy etc. He and bassist/producer/synth player Bill Laswell made several records I would describe as a fusion of Indian music and Electronic Trance music under the name "Tabla Beat Science". He collaborated with Grateful Dead drummer Mickey Hart on his "Planet Drum" project and is on various pop or rock records by George Harrison , Earth, Wind & Fire and others. He is on a great record by the Kronos String Quartet along with singer Asha Bhosle celebrating the Bollywood film compositions of R.D. Burman. Of course he also had quite a few recordings under his own name as well. Finally, I don't know if English is your second language. If so, no worries; I understand what you're saying even if the grammar is not perfect. Learning a new language is really hard. If, however you are a native speaker of English, you may want to proof-read and edit your comments. I assume that when you typed "Must some real weirdo 😂😢", that you meant to say: "You must be some kind of real weirdo". If being interested in a variety of musical traditions makes me a "weirdo", so be it; I'm guilty as charged!

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

@@callmejeffbob thank you for sharing so much info! Sorry for my rudeness - just trying being funny. You answered my question, why in India the “do re me fa sol la ti” are so different from other places. Now I know, it is because they use them as lyrics! 1. Now, this means it is likely India’s solfège is older than the solfège as we know it. It is amazing. 2. Also, the fact that they use it as lyrics, means people are treating music as an ontological entity! That is also amazing. I know in “world music”, each has its own “music theory”, ie, the so-called “music theory” is only for “Western music”. But in practice, perhaps partly because of cultural “imperialism”, but more importantly because of human cognitive capacity, we tend to think in terms of “universal music theory”. As a result, we tend to see the exceptions outside “music theory” as, well, for lack of better words, “weird stuff”. So, in “world music”, should we be satisfied being in “world music’s music theory”, or, we should try to make it into the “universal music theory”? In other words,should many nice practices in India music be treated - promoted or criticized, both - in “universal music theory”? After having all the above, now let me ask you a question, do you see a common foundation of music theory and basics, of India music and Western music? A example of the question is, is India’s solfège “fixed do” or “movable do”, or, in India music, there are both?

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

Also, is “India traditional music” mostly tonal? Is there any effort in “modern India traditional music” to dynamically change tonality or even do atonal music?

[@ChristopherMilnevcm]

Sorry to be a language nit-picker. I get so much from your videos and I AM appreciative, but the phrase is "for all intents and purposes," not "for all intensive purposes."

[@AimeeNolte]

Christopher Milne you know, I can remember learning that at some point and I am mad at myself for forgetting it. Thanks for the little lesson! I appreciate it a lot.

[@ChristopherMilnevcm]

You're welcome. I really was trying to be helpful and did not wish to offend.

[@milaavlasovich8071]

Why do you call solfege notes not right?

[@MusicTeacherGuyNorristown]

... whether it is nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to take arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing, end them.

[@AimeeNolte]

Music Teacher Guy very clever. 😉

[@MusicTeacherGuyNorristown]

I can also quote Christopher Marlowe, if you'd like.

[@6300nokiaify]

Good job

[@bkleinyt]

Sorry to be dense, but at the end... by 'singing pitches', you mean la, la, la... or da, da, da... right? Or do you mean 1, 2, flat3... et c.? Or do you mean, C, D, Eb... etc. ? Also, "all intensive purposes... ", that had me scratching my head for a moment! ;-) (no need to explain that, we all do it!)

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

You are dumb 😂 she does not like solfège! She does not recommend it ! The best is do not use it at all, just sing lalala or dadada or nnnnn or mmmmm whatever! If you really have to, use “fixed do”. Yes, she showed the “movable do”, but think her as humorous 😂 she is showing how stupid it is. I guess it is too late for you😂 7 years !?

[@garfd2]

Solfege Hand Signal Reference - 3:53 Also... Accidentals! 16:27 "Julie Andrews did not teach us about this!" XD Wonder what the hand signals for those are... [shudders]

[@sissiangle]

swing and click is hard:) but anyway i like your video!

[@MaggaraMarine]

Personally, I like using scale degree numbers. IMO they are a lot more intuitive than solfege. When I think in solfege, I kind of first think in numbers, and then convert it to solfege. If I can simply think "1 2 3", why would I think "Do Re Mi"? I guess numbers are used for chord tones, and that would be "confusing". But honestly, I don't think that's the case. You just change your point of reference - the tonal center of the song vs the root of the chord. I know that A is the 3rd of the F major scale. Why should I call it with a separate name, when "3" is a really specific way of referring to the position of the note in the scale? Honestly, I think solfege is an outdated system, and it also leads to issues when you have people who are used to fixed Do. La-based minor is also kind of confusing to me, even though I do think the idea of understanding relative keys is really useful (and La-based minor makes it really clear, which kind of makes me prefer it over "tonic-Do"). But if I hear something as the tonic, I'm going to call it the "one". I guess "Do" doesn't really mean tonic, unless you use "tonic-Do" system. But since our music has such a strong major scale bias, you'll start associating "Do" with the "tonic". And for a long time, this was why I didn't properly understand minor keys (or the point of modes). It was only when I learned about scale degree numbers that I understood the point of the different modes of the same parent scale.

[@hansencarriek]

Scale degrees are much more intuitive for me as well, especially going through Music Theory 1, 2, 3, and 4 in college. Music is analyzed using scale numbers. I'm starting to teach Middle School choir now and I'm planning on starting with solfege even though it's not my strength.

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

Why you against “fixed do”? It is the solution of solving the problem: frozen the problematic old system, simplify it into a super simple stuff: do re me fa are synonyms of cdef . Period.

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

@@hansencarriekyou are wrong! Put it aside! Teach every body basics of piano. That is it!

[@hansencarriek]

​@@gabrielgracenathanana1713 put what aside? Teaching choir? Teaching solfege? I do teach piano basics.

[@JohnResciniti]

New quote! "I can't stand swinging with solfege! There's nothing...nothings gonna make you sound more corny!"

[@AimeeNolte]

John Resciniti you make my day when you do that. 😂😂

550

[@elanfrenkel8058]

I totally agree that people should throw away the Solfege books ! Solfege was created by this Hungarian dude because of the sorry state of music aptitude he found in the population. In India they have a similar system but with different names for the notes. In my opinion it works well for Indian music (where there is always a drone) but is quite misleading for western music, where notes are constantly changing function. (Solfege only captures the relationship of a note to the tonic scale, but not to the current harmony or intervallic distance from the previous note) While its useful as training wheels, I think the faster people get away from solfege the better. Its better to just think in sound. Sometimes you will think of a note as the 3rd of a chord, or sometimes the 7th of scale , or sometimes a 5th up from the last note.. etc.

[@luishem]

Or sometimes not thinking about it at all and accepting the mystery of music and trying to take control over your instrument in your own way while you let the music take control over you to become part of that mysteriousness.

[@LearnSwingGuitar]

Sorry to be THAT guy - but solfege is a fair bit older than that - it originates in Western culture with Guido of Arezzo way back in the 11th century AD. You are probably thinking of Kodaly. There's a reason why the system has lasted a millennium and why there are similar systems in Indian music as you say. It works. It works a lot better than intervallic training for tonal melodies, and is the way people are taught to sight sing. It works extremely well for this application. I agree that it is essentially like training wheels - my own experience is that I don't use solfege syllables any more - but I am now hearing the note with reference to the tonic not to the previous note. It works much better than what I was doing before. Intervallic stuff does pop in there sometimes - it's good to be au fait with both, but functional ear training is very powerful and often overlooked. Secondly - have you played with any Hungarian musicians? They all seem to be monsters.

[@jorgeluis6999]

Three statements for you Mr Frenkel, Lazy students don't typically want to put any effort into learning Solfege. Those who learn how to Solfege NEVER regret it. Any student that knows how to Solfege very well and says that Solfege is not useful doesn't realize how good their ear has developed thanks to that Solfege skill (in other words, they are the musician they are because of Solfege). Have a great day.

[@ralphcordon5688]

I saw a video of a double bass masterclass, led by Edicson Ruiz, member of the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra, who would solfegise the melodies fluently without thinking, and it worked really well. I wish I had learned it as a child instead of rejecting it, for I considered it as too corny :/

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

@@jorgeluis6999give me a break! Only English speaking and Chinese speaking countries use solfège. They are NOT well known for musicality!!

[@LearnSwingGuitar]

I'm not reading in no viola clef!!!!! ;-)

[@nandoflorestan]

Embrace the alto clef, otherwise you cannot write a string quartet or a symphony. Prokofiev even uses the alto clef for instruments such as English Horn and French Horn -- neat trick that makes optimal use of the staff. (The parts for these instruments would not use the alto clef, of course. Just the composer's sketch.)

[@ralphcordon5688]

@@nandoflorestan one way to internalize the C clef is, to think of an eleven lined staff rather than seeing treble staff and bass staff as separated. They are connected through the line of middle C, which is indicated by the arrow of the C clef. You now just cut out the five lines you need, whether it's used for a viola part (C being on the middle line, called alto clef) or for a cello, bassoon or trombone part in higher range (C being on the second line from above, called tenor clef). Pretty easy, ain't it?

[@nezkeys79]

you're a sight for .... ok XD

[@oselini]

ti for b? How strange.. here is "si"

[@AimeeNolte]

Marco Oselini Antonio Carlos Jobim sings "si" instead of "ti" in One Note Samba, so I have always wondered about that difference. What do you say for a sharp five?

[@oselini]

Aimee Nolte as far as i know they don't have different syllables for sharps and flats.. only natural notes. here the conventional c d e f g a b ... is not used. do re mi fa sol la si instead b

[@6300nokiaify]

Marco Oselini indeed B is SI and o yes we do have it, example RE KRUIS or B SHARP, E FLAT IS EXAMPLE MI MOL

[@ralphcordon5688]

@@6300nokiaify "fa diesis" and "re bemolle" in Italian. But you wouldn't pronounce it while singing a melody. The whole clue of solfege is, having one syllable for a note.

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

1. Why in the world people a singer cannot learn basics of a instrument, like a kid piano with only 3 or even 2 octaves? It does not make sense! I refuse to learn the stupidity, and really thank you to let us know it is such a stupidity, in such a nice and soft manner- you are indeed so nice! 2. I disagree with you once you have let me know the inner truth of the stupidity: I of course will go with the “fixed do” - it is the least effort to cope with the stupidity! Just translate c into do, etc. ! Actually if you really do not need to communicate with those singers/vocalists, then, just singing cdef, or, n m n m 😂, or something in the mix, or, all three things in the mix! Who cares? Actually, unless you are really a human-instrument, and cannot pay for a kid piano, you cannot sing the semi-tone (the black keys😂) anyway. 3. I disagree saying that it is perfect pitch vs relative pitch. Actually, the fixed do is for relative pitch! - we do not care about the absolute frequency, just the relative differences among those notes! And, with do not care about semi-tones in the names - we care about how to sing them, but the names, no, just roughly close is more than enough! That is the underlying reasoning of “fixed do” - find a simplest excuse to make those stupid 😂 vocalists and professors go away 😂😢. 4. Note that I am educated from a culture that uses “movable do”. Actually, it is pervasive in that culture. It is the eastern Asian and southeastern Asian. It uses 1234567 to represent do re me fa su la ti. It is so stupid and confusing. I have been always feeling so curious why it is this way. That movie makes it feel that it is world wide, the do the me … now, thanks to this video, I know, it is just yet another world wide stupidity 😂😢😮.

[@AimeeNolte]

Thanks for your comment. It’s all very subjective. Everything feels different to everybody else so there isn’t really one right way. I can only tell what my experience is. Be careful using the word stupid so often. I think it’s better to just think of it as “different“and maybe that it doesn’t work for you, but it might work for someone else and that has value.

[@gabrielgracenathanana1713]

@ yes. You are right of course. Calmly, nicely, kindly, telling the truth, the plain history, like you did, is always the best way. Just think my words as trying be funny 😄, in a stupid way, of course 😀😊. I keep thinking about it. The real advantage of solfège is the “movable do”, which can help complex fixed tonality music, for the price of making it much more difficult to change tonality. Because a lot of modern music changes tonality dynamically, solfège-movable -do is even less suitable nowadays. As for fixed-do, it is super easy and therefore harmless. But all languages should use the same syllables. Otherwise, it is less useful. But India seems to be an exception. Sigh.