Air Battle of Mansoura 73 - The Battle That Might Not Have Actually Happened?

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The Air Battle of Mansoura is lauded in Egypt as the Egyptian Air Force's finest hour against Israel, shooting down many Israeli aircraft despite being heavily outnumbered. However, this is a rare case where one side declares that a major air engagement involving hundreds of aircraft happened, and the other completely denies that anything happened at all. We look at the evidence presented by Israel and Egypt, to try to gain an understanding of what happened at Mansoura, during the Yom Kippur War of 1973.
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[@TheOperationsRoom]

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[@Bandog23]

Love your Middleast videos, Escpecially the more rare battles.

[@simon2493]

Why does it look like some cheap mobile version of world of tanks?

[@vikashlg3267]

If you do another controversy think about Indian mig21 vs Pakistan F16

[@maxwellgallacher4190]

Would you guys please do Vimy Ridge or the first gas attack at Ypres. 🇨🇦

[@NoSaysJo]

​@vikashlg3267 both are trash countries lmao

[@CoreyandCrew]

I feel like a junkie when these come out. I ignore my family and my duties until its over.....

[@marizajoubert4276]

LOL... SAME HERE

[@travisdrake2940]

I do the same, I stop all of my chores mowing the grass whatever and just tell my wife and kids shh I'm watching history it's important

[@johanberglund3687]

💯

[@miguelmagallon7863]

I though I was alone. I could go to the theater and watch these

[@aaronjamesDS]

Lol I feel seen

[@williamxu1621]

Surprised there was no mention of ground wreckage analysis. Surely the shootdown of so many planes over such a small area would lead to photographs of piles of wreckage that could later be counted. Not to mention that if so many planes were shot down, there would be a massive number of pilot deaths and prisoners that could not be hidden.

[@trentvlak]

Yeah. The Egyptian claims are easily provable, if they could. But they can't, so they didn't.

[@simondan3828]

All along the 1973 war, Syrian and Egyptian claims of shooting down IAF were a fantasy. A Syrian pilot succeeded to lightly hit am F-4 and then got shot down- "I've shot down 7 F-4s"- that's a typical claim with typical credibility. Who believes such claims? Only Tom Cooper- an Austrian historian that favors the Arab account of events for everything.

[@seyfti74]

Yeah, this definitely did not happen.

[@mbryson2899]

​@@trentvlakIt reminds me of Israel's Bekaa Valley claims...so many aircraft simply vaporized without a trace.

[@zemog1025]

The Egyptians would certainly would have recovered and exploited any wreckage or downed pilots for propaganda purposes. The wreckage would have been featured in the Egyptian museums. I lived in Egypt for a decade, and there were no such exhibits.

[@saltwatertaffybag]

I think a lot of this can be attributed to the fog of war. My Uncle flew in Desert Storm as a WSO (backseater) in a strike eagle. He told me the number of times they were vectored onto friendly aircraft was astronomical, and they were "buddy spiked" themselves multiple times nearly every sortie. It is nothing short of an act of God, and cold as ice trigger discipline, that kept coalition aircraft from blowing eachother out of the sky. And keep in mind, this is with AWACS in the air and meticulous briefings and rehearsals beforehand. I imagine 1970s Egyptian air force to be much more... disorganized.

[@thejugernautkiller390]

There is nothing more godless than the USA army.

[@mikearmstrong8483]

My thoughts on that. The Gulf war was 15 years later, with the introduction of new technologies by a superpower that were not available to either side in this instance. The Israeli Phantoms had BVR capability but not AWACS to confirm targets or kills, and being deep in Egyptian airspace the Israeli radars could not do that either. On the Egyptian side, the MiGs available to them at that time had only guns and short range tail-chase missiles, so pilots would have been closing to knife range, and it doesn't take the most experienced fighter pilot to distinguish an F-4 from a MiG-21. So there were reasons both for and against increased confusion. I think that Egyptian pilots were not used to that many planes in the air. Also, there were Soviet officers heavily involved in Egyptian air defence at that time, including serving as air controllers, so language and/or Soviet political goals may have been a factor.

[@pogo1140]

​​@@mikearmstrong8483 I was talking with an old f-4 pilot who flew them in late in the Vietnam War and he mentioned that they usually had about 7 seconds between when the MiG came into vis ID range and having to either attack or break contact

[@mikearmstrong8483]

@@pogo1140 Yes, that would have been much more like the Yom Kippur War, only a few years apart, and with Phantom pilots usually prohibited from BVR engagement.

[@pogo1140]

@@mikearmstrong8483 The pilot I talked to flew in the in Vietnam 71-72. The issue was visual ID, they did not want to be shooting down F-5's and A-7's coming back from a strike and their AiM-7's were crap at BVR ranges so all BVR missile shots were made from WVR.

[@Majere613]

My hunch, based solely on what was in the video, is that there was indeed a battle, but the Israeli force was a lot smaller than the Egyptians thought, and a significant number of supposed 'Israelis' were actually Egyptians in other formations. These sort of identification and IFF errors could quite possibly happen in such an apparently large and fast-moving engagement. It's also quite possible that kills of the same aircraft were claimed by multiple Egyptian pilots, which is another fairly common occurence.

[@TheJacobshapiro]

This seems like a reasonable assumption. Here’s what I think happened: The Israelis sent a squadron of phantoms to draw out fighters at Mansoura to cover the raid on Tanta airbase and ensure fighters from Mansoura don’t intercept that strike. A confused dogfight occurs between the Israeli phantoms, the Egyptian fighters, and a trickle of Israeli fighters returning from Tanta towards the safety of the sea. A combination of the fog of war and Egyptian radar operators misunderstanding that the aircraft coming north from Tanta are not part of the Mansoura attack/diversion leads to the high Egyptian claim about the number of Israeli fighters (although altogether there are still probably no more than 50-80). As for losses, I’d suspect that Egyptians may be counting unrelated Israeli losses from other actions, or maybe even the entire day of October 14. 17 phantoms shot down over Mansoura alone would mean they wiped out the entire squadron sent there, which pretty demonstrably didn’t happen as the complete annihilation of a whole unit would be near impossible to hide. That said, the Israeli claim of two losses for the entire day of October 14th is also not realistic at all.

[@CahitbeyAdiAlinmis]

It is also somewhat i have thought what night have happened as well, but Israelis wouldnt deny it if it was beneficial to them. So i would say the dogfight might have happened was probably defacto won by Egypt, tho they are exaggerating, probably because they needed a win to publicise.

[@kameronjones7139]

Yeah the whole thing was probably significantly smaller in scale

[@Eboreg2]

Honestly, the fact that the Egyptians don't teach this battle to new pilots indicates a certain unwillingness to draw too much publicity to the nitty-gritty details leading me to believe that it was a massive friendly fire incident and they _really_ don't want that information to get out.

[@mikearmstrong8483]

I'm pretty much in agreement with a compilation of the comments above. There was a battle, nowhere near the size of the Egyptian claims, with confusion as to who was who. Multiple kills may have been claimed on the same aircraft by Egyptian pilots, or kills claimed that actually weren't. A significant point here is that the J79 engines of the F-4 were notoriously smokey. Several Egyptian pilots may have got off a quick burst of gunfire and not hit anything, but then saw smoke coming out of the target and claimed a kill. Possibly there were some friendly fire accidents, though the Egyptians would have been closing to minimal range (the MiG-21s having only guns and short range tail-chase missiles) and it doesn't take the most experienced fighter pilot to recognize the difference between an F-4 and a MiG-21. Such losses would have naturally been concealed. There is also the point to consider that Soviet officers were instrumental in Egyptian air defense at that time, in some cases directly serving as air controllers and SAM battery commanders, so language and/or Soviet political goals may also have been a factor.

[@charlessaint7926]

It's like the two sides describing a college party. Egypt brags, "Yeah, man! It was wild! We had booze, babies, and beer! There was, like, 150 people there. The police showed up twice to shut us down! Ed did a pool dive from the second-floor balcony!" Israel, "Well, there was a party at Ed's place. It wasn't 150 people. More like 20. There was beer but no spirits. The police showed up because Ed parked his car in the street. They asked him to move it."

[@101jir]

After Israel says 20: "Hold on a sec," _looks up while counting in head_ "nope, 12, I accidentally counted some people twice the first time around." Gotta commend that emphasis on precision and accuracy. Overclaiming usually happens in wars, it's just too chaotic to keep track of everything on the spot accurately. As reports get compared, sometimes they find a smoking plane that took a nose dive was trying to nurse the crippled plane home, only to be shot down for real sometime later by another pilot. Then you get naval over claiming because of how easy it is to underestimate the enemy's damage control. And tanks are the worst, since it's generally much smarter to put another round into a tank that looks dead than to find out the hard way it wasn't. Anyway, just found it really cool that they caught and corrected their own overclaiming.

[@TrickiVicBB71]

Good way to describe it

[@jasonbelstone3427]

Historian (To Israel and Egypt): What if I told you... you were all too drunk to remember that anything even happened? (flash back) The entire event was just five guys. And, yes, Ed was there and there were police... who decided to walk over Ed after he passed out by his car. Who spiked the drink?

[@ranro7371]

US Referring to the memoirs of David Eliezer, America sent 70 Phantom planes in one day to Israel!! Before the war, did you only have 30 Phantoms?? What is in the museum and its serial number are different planes from those that were shot down, which are estimated at 387 planes of different models according to the Israeli archives, despite Egypt owning only 200 planes. From chapter 25 of G-SUIT Combat Reports from Israel's Air War, by Merav Halperin & Aharon Lapidot, it would appear that there was indeed a scrap over Mansura on the 14th October 1973. "On the morning of the 14th a formation from the squadron went to Mansura field , also in the Nile Delta. It was clear that this was going to be a tough raid. Even very tough. The Mansura field was deep in the delta and was protected by batteries of SA-2 and -3 missiles. MIGs were expected in the target zone and the chances we would take them by surprise were slim."

[@iansmith5174]

One telling detail is that there were no Israeli Mirages or Neshers in the Egyptian account. Why would the Israelis launch such a massive strike package without their best dogfighters?

[@ronmaximilian6953]

I suppose the Arabs might respond that they were busy dealing with Syria or fighting over the Suez

[@MichaelRose87]

Maybe these fighters were tied up in missions on the Syrian front? I mean idk, it's just a speculation. But in the Yom Kippur war IAF resources were pretty stretched out.

[@iansmith5174]

@@MichaelRose87 Or the Egyptians claimed every downed Israeli plane was a Phantom because of its fearsome reputation.

[@firstlast4165]

👃

[@suburbandystopia4130]

I mean, they literally started the war

[@tokencivilian8507]

Curious of what physical evidence for the Egyptian claims existed? I'd imagine if they managed to down as many Israeli aircraft as claimed, the wreckage of each would be paraded prominently. It also makes me go "hmmmm..." that the Israeli's aren't very forthcoming on their side of the story. It could also be that given that subsequently Israel and Egypt settled their differences at Camp David, perhaps it's one of those things where things in the past are best left in the past. Sounds like both sides have metaphorical bodies they'd rather keep buried. Interesting vid TOR. Keep bringing this kind of content to YT. Thank you.

[@UAuaUAuaUA]

During the same time period, Taiwan lost eleven US supplied U-2 spy aircrafts over China. The destroyed aircraft, the name of the pilots and the dates are all known. The better preserved U-2 aircrafts were displayed in Peking. The pilots taken prisoner were released in 1982. Egypt would have done the same if they had been able to do so.

[@pogo1140]

​@@UAuaUAuaUA5 ROC U-2's were lost to PRC SAM's with 3 pilots killed and 2 captured.

[@joshdavis3743]

@@UAuaUAuaUA Are you trying to compare U-2 spy planes to fighter jets?

[@joshdavis3743]

I agree with you token. Both sides overexaggerated, as is common with war. One thing we can be certain of it wasn't a clear IAF victory or it would of been sung loud and proud over the airwaves. It seems like it was likely a IAF defeat, but not one here the Egyptians can claim it unopposed.

[@marjae2767]

How long would it take to identify the wrecks, and tell the day they were lost, and the cause?

[@AlphaAurora]

A whole flight of 60x F4 Phantoms? Where did Israel get all these planes from?

[@mindtraveller100]

They had aprox 100, but they would not use that many on a single mission...

[@cjclark1208]

Uncle Sam loves planes, he f*ckin loves em.

[@engfathi8829]

@@mindtraveller100 they got extra 70 planes from US in single day according to Israel chief staff david alizar plus if they succeed in this mission they can easly attack cairo and the back of the egyption army

[@mindtraveller100]

@@game_overakaokblogger6184 Yes, i know that.

[@WaelSoliman]

I was one of the eyewitnesses to this battle. I was an eight-year-old child, and when the sirens started, all the family members headed to the hideout except for me and my grandfather. I remember standing with my grandfather and looking out the window and hearing the sound of planes, suddenly I saw a block of fire in the sky. It is followed by the sound of a huge explosion. Many years have passed but this incident has not been erased from my memory

[@johnlandrigan6578]

legends die hard. Something probably happened but 17 crashed Israeli aircraft would be hard to hide. The fact we saw 1 piece of wreckage probably was all there was. Japanese pilots in WWII would constantly report sunk aircraft carriers which caused their commanders to make blunders thinking the enemy was weakened. Honesty is the first casualty in war. Honor is the second.

[@roy6907]

A: Sir! We sunk the enterprise carrier! B: That’s the fifth time you said that!

[@gareththompson2708]

Over-claiming is indeed very common in any war. But there is good reason to believe that deliberate lying has little to do with it. In aerial combat in particular it can be very difficult to properly visually confirm a kill while you also need to continue concentrating on not crashing and not getting shot down by the next threat. Most falsely reported kills were kills that the pilots likely fully believed they had made. It is particularly easy to understand this effect in the case of tank busting. Over and over in WW2 pilots would claim they had destroyed a number of tanks that far exceeds any number that could be supported by the other side's records of tank losses for that day, sometimes by an order of magnitude or more. It was explained to me that an aircraft could drop its bomb on a tank, and the bomb would miss. But it would land close enough to envelop the tank in the massive cloud of dust produced by the explosion, leading the pilot to believe that they had hit the tank. When it comes to erroneously reported aircraft kills this becomes easier to understand when you understand just how confusing air combat can be. Unlike in a video game, real enemy aircraft don't have a big red marker on them. They appear as a dot in the sky, which you need to struggle to keep track of as you violently maneuver to avoid their shots and line up your own. At some point in the dog fight you may get a good lock for you missiles, fire, see an explosion, and no longer see the enemy aircraft. You might reasonably conclude that you had shot down the aircraft, when in fact they outmaneuvered your missile and you merely lost track of them.

[@jiyuhong5853]

@@roy6907 Sir they can build 20 carriers in a month, of course we said it 5 times

[@Danspy501st]

Ah. I remember when Japanese pilots throught to had sunk Yorktown in battle of Midway and attacked an other Yorktown class carrier believing to be either Hornet or Enterprise. Turns out they attacked a crippled Yorktown XD

[@bobogogo1671]

Don't expect Israeli Zionists to tell the Truth ‼️ Further they need to play the underdog in case of a defeat 🤣😭🤣😭😂

[@cxzact9204]

Egyptian Aviation schools don't teach about this day and that makes me a major skeptic. The logical explanation for this entire event is that the Egyptian Air Force, having suffered embarrassing losses thus far in the war, launched an all out last stand defense that day with every plane it had against what they mistakenly thought was a major Israeli raid, which lead to the natural outcome of a friendly fire bonanza. Any Desert Storm pilot will attest to how easy it was to shoot your own in those jets. The entire narrative had to be pieced together to save Mubarak, ostensibly responsible for air defense at the time, and explain away the dozens of wrecks littering the North Delta area.

[@Korporaal1]

I think so too. The only explanation that fits all unanswered questions is that a small IDF strike mission triggered an enormous Egyptian response; but then degenerated into a command & control chaos on the Egyptian side. The resulting messy reporting -and accompanying blue-on-blue, is officially explained after the fact as a major Egyptian success in order to save face.

[@hellboy12190]

How is the crossing of the Suez Canal and the destruction of the Bar-Lev line embarrassing losses? At this point in the war, Egypt was in a relatively strong and fortified position on the east side of the canal. FYI Mubarak was head of the Air Force and not the main point of contact for air defense, which was the main responsibility of the Air Defense commander (a separate force within the Egyptian army)

[@hellboy12190]

Your comment even ignores the fact that the Israeli military stopped attack targets in the Nile delta after this day. More importantly, you’re ignoring the testimony from Israeli pilots about the day itself, which negates your theory that this was somehow Egyptian vs Egyptian pilots

[@cxzact9204]

@@hellboy12190As I said, the *Air Force* had suffered massive losses. Did the Egyptian Air Force cross the Suez in tanks? And there's never even been an attempt from the Egyptian side to explain why the IAF, with much more advanced radar and IFF at the time, would fly multiple air wings straight into a storm of enemy fighters and SAM nets. Speaking of SAMs, what did they do on this day? There were thousands of AA missiles stationed across the north delta. If the Egyptians had decimated their own air power, the Israelis probably knew exactly what had happened - they had AWACS and at that point, the Egyptian Air Force wouldn't be a threat to Israeli ground forces anymore. How did the Israeli's attack with more planes than their air force had in stock? Why did the IAF attack with only one fighter type, something they had never done before? What became of the captured pilots? Also, within 2 weeks after this "major victory" for Egypt Israeli tanks were 100km from Cairo, and 30km from Damascus and the IDF had conquered the Golan Heights and 1600sq km of Egypt on the west bank of the Suez, while the Egyptian army was encircled on the east bank? AND Egyptian aviation schools don't teach about it AND the president at the time just completely omitted the greatest military victory of his entire career out of his memoirs AND within 6 years the Egyptians recognized Israel so it could have the Sinai back. How did that happen?

[@ahmedsaber7171]

@@cxzact9204 Some of the Israeli jets attacked from northern mediterranean , that's why they skipped the SAM nets on the Canal. And on this day some of the Israeli losses were achieved by AA missiles. The claim that Egyptian aviation schools don't teach about this day is nothing more than a bullshit, they teach it for everybody every now and then

[@BobSmith-dk8nw]

Historians often have problems like this. For Air Battles - what helps - is if the Historian can access the Unit Records for each unit involved. Where did they go? What did they do? What were their losses? What were their claims? These records are not always 100% reliable - but - the Unit Records are kept for their own purposes (they want to know what they did and what happened to them - so that they can change things that are mistakes and know what worked well) and thus less likely to have been co-opted into propaganda. Here Access to these Records often has to wait until they are no longer Classified and have become Historical Documents. But sometimes these records are lost or intentionally destroyed as part of a Security Policy. Also there are Language Issues And there are problems with letting former enemies look at your records. It took a long time but a lot of ground was broken on WWII by Historians - but - it took a lot of work over an extended period of time. Waiting to long - can cause a loss of the participants - as you want to compare their memories with the records. Either could be more accurate than the other. But Hey! That's why Historians get paid the big bucks! Right ....? .

[@seanocean]

The fact that this channel’s content is so heavily researched, makes it so damn cool. Full respect.

[@philippeszwarcbart6507]

In 1967 while Israel was advancing successfully into the Sinai, Egyptian radio claimed victory over Israeli forces throughout the war, and only when it was over was it discovered to be the opposite. The Yom Kippur war was meant to rectify that. By this point in the war Syria had been pushed back towards Damascus, and Egypt had just suffered a major defeat. The Egyptian military needed a propaganda win to convince themselves Israel was not turning the tide of the war. Likely a smaller scale engagement happened with few IAF losses but overall resulted in the Israelis aborting the mission, so the Egyptians blew it up to make it something bigger.

[@FighteroftheNightman]

Israel purposefully sunk the USS Liberty to drag the US into their war I will never trust their version of anything

[@heshamabdou5259]

In 1967, a government was appointed by American intelligence and was completely arrested. In 1973, clear orders were given to deliberately reduce the number of Israeli losses in order to discourage this for later political reasons.

[@husseinoskovjino9398]

It did not turn the tide of the war Syria was barely pushed to the outskirts of Damascus cuz the Iraqi Army reached Damascus and pushed the Isreali army back to the golan heights This according the villages and the people who live in the areas between damascus and the golan heights which is a region not at all sparsely populated

[@mohamedboulmaouhib5170]

1973 is a very different war in all fileds , & even the media was more accurate , in 14th october there was a battle which have ended with an israeli loss , how much aircratf lost ?? no one know its called fog of war , but surely they couldnt destroy the airfield and they never tried again to strike against any other egyptian airfiled like they did in the 67 , and the sky over the suez canal was disputed until the last moment of the war

[@engfathi8829]

What the Egyptian army did in October 1973 and its overthrow of the largest and strongest defensive line in history restored his pride and he did not want to lie or claim anything. He was not the one who issued his distress call to America. In the end, bringing down the Bar Lev Line is much more than just a battle with planes. On the other hand, did Israel announce its real losses in the air force and armored vehicles??

[@yanniammari1491]

There is no world where an engagement of such a scale(as claimed by the egyptians) would not leave enough traces to go around and knowing israel they proably had to withdraw and is probably why they avoid sharing the details but knowing how the mubarak family snowballed this into almost becoming the defacto royal family of egypt is interesting

[@ranro7371]

From chapter 25 of G-SUIT Combat Reports from Israel's Air War, by Merav Halperin & Aharon Lapidot, it would appear that there was indeed a scrap over Mansura on the 14th October 1973. "On the morning of the 14th a formation from the squadron went to Mansura field , also in the Nile Delta. It was clear that this was going to be a tough raid. Even very tough. The Mansura field was deep in the delta and was protected by batteries of SA-2 and -3 missiles. MIGs were expected in the target zone and the chances we would take them by surprise were slim." US Referring to the memoirs of David Eliezer, America sent 70 Phantom planes in one day to Israel!! Before the war, did you only have 30 Phantoms?? What is in the museum and its serial number are different planes from those that were shot down, which are estimated at 387 planes of different models according to the Israeli archives, despite Egypt owning only 200 planes.

[@Pwn3dbyth3n00b]

I doublt Egypts claims due to the fact that missing or killed pilots is not something you can just sweep under the rug especially in a large scale battle. Along with the wreckage of the planes that easily could serve as proof of the battle occurring.

[@Genessyss]

Israel propaganda is and always was very strong. So I don't believe that this didn't happen either.

[@danielm.4696]

@@Genessyss It's indeed most likely that this battle happened. But on a much smaller scale and not with a favourable outcome for both sides, thus they resorted to lying.

[@blacklight4720]

@@Genessyss Don't claim such bold statements, especially if you don't know what you're talking about. The Israeli government is quite transparent with the public about their soldiers KIA and MIA, a person with an interest in the subject does not need to do difficult research to learn about Israel's policy regarding war casualties and missed in action. But I suspect you don't care about that.

[@Aldnon]

@@blacklight4720 bruh, both side are NOT transparent during the entire war.

[@blacklight4720]

During? Yes, nowadays after war, such things are transparent in Israel. We have billboards along the roads, on top of buildings, calling to return missing in action. It's an everyday reminder.@@Aldnon

[@scrubsrc4084]

And there was me expecting the egyptians to have got in to a massive fight with itself and shot its own jets down

[@Foreign0817]

US and Canadian friendly fire in ww2.

[@scrubsrc4084]

@Foreign0817 something america specialise in.

[@Foreign0817]

@@scrubsrc4084 Back then, there were actually more US casualties. Canadians got the drop on us.

[@jacklucas5908]

A battle that may not have even happened? Consider me interested!

[@davidt3563]

I love the dude at 9:35 going "What the heck are you doing taking pictures?!?"

[@Fliegerabwehrkanone-re1ty]

The part where the narrator says nothing about the battle in the memoirs or pilot training manuals tends to raise questions. Id think if there was a glorious victory it'd be in the history books. Not saying a battle didnt happen. Just think it was nearly as big as what egypt claims.

[@CarlosGonzalez-kb3ck]

There probably was an engagement, but much smaller than claimed.

[@danmorgan3685]

I think this is an example of the paradox of the false middle. The IDF claims nothing happened. Yet their was some kind of air action. So they are actually lying. Since one side is absolutely lying then the Egyptian story is far more likely to be true. Some exaggeration in attacking aircraft is understandable since the enemy isn't going to tell you how many they sent even if you ask politely. The IDF has also lied about overall loses during the Yom Kippur war. They got sloppy and were taken by surprise in the first place. Their tankers got cooked because they totally underestimated the Sagger ATGM.

[@Revy8]

no, USA sponsored countries always lie

[@sawyerawr5783]

and almost certainly between solely Egyptian pilots.

[@Genessyss]

@@sawyerawr5783 neah Israel lost that day. deal with it.

[@ThisHandleIsTakenTryThis]

@@Genessysswhat’s the physical proof of it? Wreckages? POWs? Dead pilots? Where’s all that proof?

[@Losowy]

Knowing that egyptians once claimed annihilating israeli air force only for it to strike other countries I'm kinda sceptic about their version

[@seamy2020vision]

Excellent work as always

[@davidlisovtsev6607]

So I guess most plausible explanation is that there was an air battle over the area, just not as the Egyptian air force explained it.

[@hellboy12190]

Your unbiased and objective commentary is highly appreciated - keep up the great content and everyone will keep coming - thank you to the whole team behind this amazing channel. Video recommendation: the Egyptian crossing of the Suez Canal and the establishment of bridgeheads on the east side of the canal in 1973.

[@ranro7371]

joking?

[@ranro7371]

US Referring to the memoirs of David Eliezer, America sent 70 Phantom planes in one day to Israel!! Before the war, did you only have 30 Phantoms?? What is in the museum and its serial number are different planes from those that were shot down, which are estimated at 387 planes of different models according to the Israeli archives, despite Egypt owning only 200 planes.

[@mohamedmandour1785]

The video is totally biased. 1. There is no single resource from the Egyptian/Arab side and literature. 2. All resources are Israeli and American. Do you think that the Israelis ethically and objectively admit their losses as you can see their naive lies in Gaza and the murder of Journalist Sheren Abu Akila. Will they praise their enemy? We have seen them now in Gaza. Just cowards get revenge from civilians not from the Palestinian resistance which crushed them since 7 October in terms of intelligence and fight on the ground. They hide their high causalities and do not offer any "credible" footage of killing the resistance or freeing their POWs while the Palestinian resistance with its by far limited capacity shows that every day. Based on evidence/logic, they are not credible at all and the current aggression on Gaza is a living example. 3. Will the Americans objectively admit that their military products were defeated by outdated Soviet planes and tanks in the middle of the Cold War?! It is a proxy war, and each wants to prove his strength for the enemy and his allies. So, Do you think that the Americans will say that their planes/M60 tanks were hunted like birds by the Egyptian air defence or AT-3 Sagger made by the Soviets? 4. Kenneth Bollak who said that the Egyptians shot only 8 while the Zionists shot 190 out of 220 planes Egypt had in its air force, mostly saved, is accused of AIPAC espionage. Ironically, he, the CIA agent, wrote a book before the US invasion of Iraq that claimed that Iraq had a nuclear weapon and had MDWs which later proved to be a fabricated story that resulted in the killing of one million of Iraqi people. 5. An Israeli journalist interviewed Mubarak. Mubarak said during the video some notions regarding the Mansoura Battle " I remind you with Ariel Sharon that the Israelis came to get the bodies of their pilots from Mansoura". Neither the journalist nor the Israeli gov denied that important claim from a president of the country of the enemy. How? kzbin.info/www/bejne/emOzqmmAjNOBo9E&ab_channel=EgyptianPresidential Look at the video at from 1:15 to 1:30 Mansoura is a great city with a history not about monuments or temples but rather about defeating enemies. Go back to the Fifth Crusade and the Seventh Crusade which ended with Louis IX, the kind of France, as a prisoner for the Egyptians and Muslims. After that, they did not come again to Mansoura and Egypt. This continued to this air battle despite your biases and distortion of reality. For those who want to argue in a biased way try to be objective, and get out of your psychological dogma. We saw genocide in Gaza. The Western media claimed silly objectivity. They admit that children are killed and they a collective punishment, depriving them of water, food, and everything which = war crimes but because they are biased they refuse to say so. They are talk is unimportant and shit like the dog is barking. If you affiliate with a certain background, political party, life preferences and religion that favours one, for example, the Israelis they cannot be defeated blindly and are psychologically not "willing" to hear or see that they are against the law and committing crimes and defeated in wars without evidence and use of logic, the same applied your talk is nonsense like when the dog is barking

[@HeisenbergFam]

This video about battle that may have not happened being sponsored by Battle Machines is quite fitting

[@Bandog23]

Oh look it's the mass comment bot guy with nothing to add

[@simondan3828]

I'm going to completely rewrite this comment, after I was corrected by someone, but the correction was wrong. In Israel we call this sortie Tanta, not Mansura. No phantoms were shot down by the Egyptians on that sortie. However one F-4 was shot down by an Israel mirage on the way back. Other sorties being confused with this one: 1. On the following day, Tanta was targeted, one F-4 was shot down. 2. In the new documentary I've previously described, sqn 201 attacked a communication junction next to a bridge. This attack was successful, but since the junction was close to airbase Banha, its air cover got engaged with the F-4s and shot two of them.

[@syferpolski4344]

Interesting. Seems like it should be easy to match up the two engagements on the same day, especially since at jet speeds battles don't happen over a single point but an area

[@hipfirehippie3474]

It's Banha, not Tanta, and the raid was on October 11. The imaginary scenario depicted in this video "happened" in October 14.

[@MrZakay]

The film about Squadron 201 also refers to the Banha attack north of Cairo. In Arabic: بنها. There was an important communication junction there that transmitted all the transmissions of the Egyptian army in underground wires. Communication went over a bridge from one side of the Nile to the other. Israeli intelligence estimated that fighter jets from three Egyptian bases would defend. The operation is expected to incur losses. But if the communication is destroyed, the Egyptian army will be forced to communicate with wireless devices and will be very exposed to Israeli intelligence. The 4 attacking planes destroyed a bridge on which the wires passed and took off super sonic. Now they couldn't go back because the turning radius was huge at the speed they were flying. The Egyptian army had to pay a lot of blood due to wireless transmission. The attack was successful! The 4 planes accompanying the attackers circled the destroyed target. They had to speed up and quickly join the attackers. The lead plane flies low, slowly to draw MiGs into battle. The others did not warn him. Dozens of MiGs appeared immediately. 2 escort planes made a mistake and took off at low speed and energy. That's why they were hurt. The remaining 2 accelerated low. Avoid the Migs coming quickly from above. The commander killed one of the MiGs, and they left the scene. the price; 2 POW, and 2 dead, could have been avoided. Israel destroyed the target and listened to the Egyptian communication during the war.

[@sheev2829]

This video is very misleading then

[@Genessyss]

so which one is it Tanta, Bahna or Mansira? Get your facts straight Mossaf.

[@RyonI21]

I don't think it will be too hard to calculate the F-4 losses overall. There are two boneyards in Israel with LOTS of old F-4s (over 100), one in Hatzerim air force museum, and Uvda AFB in the south. They all have serial numbers and sqn markings. there is also a website with the story of every specific jet (sky-high co il). All the losses during the years are quite well documented.

[@engfathi8829]

US Referring to the memoirs of David Eliezer, America sent 70 Phantom planes in one day to Israel!! Before the war, did you only have 30 Phantoms?? What is in the museum and its serial number are different planes from those that were shot down, which are estimated at 387 planes of different models according to the Israeli archives, despite Egypt owning only 200 planes.

[@shantanusapru]

Excellent coverage of this bizarre battle!

[@WhydoIsuddenlyhaveahandle]

I love how fairly you present different takes on the same events. The atomic bomb issues on the Intel Report are another big example. It is very impressive

[@Vatniks_are_clowns]

I've always loved your content, thank you for the work you do!

[@chrismodini7225]

One of the best birthday presents is seeing another in-depth video being uploaded. Keep up with the great content!

[@importantname]

Another well balanced presentation. Highlights that history is rarely what actually happened, it is actually what we think happened, which depends mainly on our own beliefs, ideals and opinions.

[@luigisergi3469]

Yeah. Serbia got ONE f-117 and they made a whole museum exibit for it

[@airborneace]

They hit a second one, little known fact

[@TheDappledHen]

From chapter 25 of G-SUIT Combat Reports from Israel's Air War, by Merav Halperin & Aharon Lapidot, it would appear that there was indeed a scrap over Mansura on the 14th October 1973. "On the morning of the 14th a formation from the squadron went to Mansura field , also in the Nile Delta. It was clear that this was going to be a tough raid. Even very tough. The Mansura field was deep in the delta and was protected by batteries of SA-2 and -3 missiles. MIGs were expected in the target zone and the chances we would take them by surprise were slim."

[@shero113]

Great book! I forgot they mentioned this, because, as the video says, a minor battle.

[@SheridanM551]

Great vid as always

[@aaronlea9559]

Also many thanks for amazing content

[@Jarlerus]

The battle is also discussed in the booklet "1973: The first nuclear war" - Middle East @ war series, by Tom Cooper and Abdallah Emran. There they also go into a bit more detail about the Egyptian side pilot's recollections etc. Quite interesting!

[@user-pr2tz6ko9j]

I always wanted you to cover this battle as it Was The longest air battle in history

[@bigboitimmy123]

Hey man love the vids I made the list of your vids and currently working my way through and this video popped up at the exact time I've gotten to so far haha

[@Fryepod3628]

*The most compelling channel ever*

[@2IDSGT]

Generally, it’s usually the defeated who have reasons to make stuff up. “We’re not losing; we’re just winning closer and closer to home.” 😁

[@Genessyss]

Right because Israel never lied or used propaganda :)))

[@airborneace]

Are you sure about that? There's a reason the saying goes "victors write the history books". Firebombing Tokyo was a war crime if anyone except the US did it

[@2IDSGT]

@@airborneace Waaagh…

[@neshirst-ashuach1881]

@@airborneace This gets repeated constantly, and its total nonsense. At Nuremburg, when Nazi war criminals where being prosecuted for war crimes and crimes against humanity, NO ONE WAS PROSECUTED FOR BOMBIMG CIVVILIAN TARGETS. It was never criminalised, at least during WW2. Even afterwards its status is murky. So the claim that "if anyone else had firebombed Tokyo it would have been a war crime" is 100% a lie. Please stop spreading this rubbish, and call out anyone who you see making these claims.

[@Tanks_and_Frog]

this channel needs more subscribers

[@steve3291]

My knowledge of the wars in the Middle East has been greatly enhanced by this channel. This feels like a 'fog of war' incident where both sides embellish their efforts and the truth may lie somewhere inbetween.

[@BaytreePilot]

Thanks!

[@imafackinjunglist]

How can we speak about the distant past with any certainty if we can’t even say a battle in the 70’s happened or not.

[@sawyerawr5783]

The lack of verifiable evidence on the ground is what seals this for me. The Egyptian Air Force's competency is known...If they could pull this off, I have to ask where the hell these pilots were during the entirety of the Yom Kippur War? Never mind that the MiG-21, even with a drop tank, doesn't have anywhere near the legs of an F-4. I have to wonder how many planes would've glided in to Mansoura if the battle lasted 53 minutes as is claimed. And if that many planes were lost, pilots would have inevitably been killed. You can't cover that for long: if nothing else, the rest of the F-4 crews are going to wonder where their buddies went. I suspect one of two things: 1) nothing happened that day, or 2) There was a friendly fire incident that was covered up and ebellished into a great victory. Given the evidence produced in this video, I have to lean toward the second option. the Israelis launched an attack, and in the confusion, Egyptian pilots started firing at each other.

[@98765zach]

I could also see it being an actual engagement, but of a small scale, perhaps, and the Israeli force could have been much smaller number than reported. This is before anything like AWACS so there’s no telling what happened, I think there is a lot of fog of war here.

[@bigsarge2085]

Fascinating!

[@simonnorburn3518]

Non attributable: Around 2000 I had a chat with one of the USAF SAM Suppression missions (F15). He told me, and I do not vouch for it's veracity, that they had very short notice of the UK Tornado IDS aircraft in theatre. He also told me that he flew over to meet them and try to organise mission sorting so as to prevent issues (as in blue on blue) and was basicly invited to mind his own business. On going downtown on day 1 of the Baghdad strikes he saw a flight of MiG23's coming on in a head on intercept mode to the strike he was escorting. According to him he used his LLTV and identified them as Soviet style cammo'd Mig 23's, called pause on the intercept and about 3 seconds later got proof that they were IDS. Both he and I were glad he did not launch earlier. Talking about it afterwards he stated "He did not know the Tornado's had been cammo'd in desert style. He did not know that the RAF were flying inserts (as per standard Nato practice on the left side and exerts on the right [USASF had elected to do this right left; he never told me why]) an he basically shat himself when he realised how close it had been. I cannot vouchsafe for the accuracy of this appart from: 1) He had been in GW1; 2) he flew F15 (E?); 3 He was a wild weasel; 4) he was still distressed at remembering how close it was. Oh and 5): Head on, in the TV amplified viewer the Tornado IDS does look (rather) like a MiG 23 with it's wings swept back.

[@2020Max1]

One thing that I would point out is that the Mig-21 and Mig-19 aircraft were very much inferior to the F-4, with the Mig-21 primarily being an interceptor aircraft, good at striking out in hit and run attacks but extremely poor at the close in dog fighting like you'd see in defense of an airbase. Now that's not to say that a pitched battle between Mig-21's and F-4's couldn't happen, just that it's not likely that the Egyptian perspective occurred as they claim, at least not without suffering significant casualties themselves in the process.

[@tetraxis3011]

And Yet American F4s struggled in dogfights against Vietnamese Mig21s

[@2020Max1]

@tetraxis3011 let's correct the record here. At their first introduction into Vietnam, yes, the F4 initially struggled against the Mig-21 mainly because the USAF tried changing up the way that air combat was fought. Opting for a missile only load out on the F4. The problem here was 2 fold, first the radar and IR guided missiles at the time were extremely unreliable. Secondly, most F4 pilots of the time were trained using the USAFs old fighter doctrine, which emphasized dog fighting and gun combat. This quickly changed a few years into the war as pilots learned to work around the quirks of these missiles and developed new tactics that incorporated them. By mid-war, the F4 was dominating any Soviet aircraft that it went up against.

[@tetraxis3011]

@@2020Max1 You are still wrong though. While still poor, American missiles were better than the Atol. And up until the end of the war, the Americans failed to dominate over the Vietnamese Air Force.

[@2020Max1]

A 5.5:1 K-L ratio is not a failure to dominate. By the middle of the war the NV Airforce couldn't hold a candle to the USAF and USN air power. Their only saving grace was their SAM and AAA networks... but then again we are not talking about that here we are talking about A2A combat.

[@pablopablo3834]

Its so far fetched because the Israeli's lost so many fighters in the whole war and you expect me to believe they lost 17? You couldn't hide that many being shot down because and Pilot numbers are so much lower than say infantry or Tank commanders so losing them would be extremely bad and everyone in IAF would more than likely know the dead.

[@ACME_Kinetics]

Israel tweaked their # from 15 to 7, so one safe thing to say is it was all exaggerated.

[@Genessyss]

nothing you said is a strong argument for this to never happened.

[@ThisHandleIsTakenTryThis]

@@Genessyssthere’s not physical proof of it happening. If it really did happens where are the wreckages, pows, dead pilots?

[@ExHyperion]

@@Genessyssit is nearly undeniable proof that this was overly exaggerated at best. Out of 17 enemy planes shot down, Egypt would have recovered at least several of them, yet none have been shown. Egypt paraded practically every other enemy fighter they shot down for propaganda, why would they not do that for this battle which they hail as a major victory?

[@Genessyss]

@@ExHyperion all I am eaying is it happened. What number of planes were shot down, I don't know. But even if it was one, it means it happened. Israel an Mossad trolls say it did not happen AT ALL.

[@benchapple1583]

Shooting down 17 jets over your own territory would produce 17 easily findable wrecks on the ground to be photographed and put into museums. Just like the F117 in the Serbian air museum (I've touched it with my hands). Where are these photos, where are these wrecks?

[@Genessyss]

what are you talking about? That f35 went down in a populated area and they couldn't find it for days. You c early do not understand the size of the battlefield and the size of a plane wreckage.

[@potatoe4221]

@@Genessyss You mean the F35 that went down in a forest 60 miles away from where the pilot ejected? Why are you misappropriating the events that transpired?

[@SuperSmith]

The war within my head might also not be happening but we'll see soon enough

[@Saltiren]

👀👀

[@ivan_pozdeev_u]

A soft room at your local asylum may help.

[@thepolishnz]

Future Egyptian president was responsible for the greatest hour in Egypt's air force history? Sounds about right

[@emberfist8347]

This reminds me of a joke about Lenoid Brezhnev. It goes like this. Two veterans get into an argument. One says to the other: “While I was at Malaya Zemlya deciding the fate of the war, you were probably just twiddling your thumbs in Stalingrad.” The joke stems from Brezhnev pulling this turning the Battle of the Malaya Zemlya Bridgehead (a minor subconflict of the Battle of Moscow which doesn't even have a Wikipedia page.) as being the most important battle of the Eastern Front and neglecting actually important battles like Stalingrad (While Brezhnev's predecessor Krusuchev served there, he had a more minor role historically).

[@thepolishnz]

@@emberfist8347 idi armin awarded himself the victoria cross, the DSO and MC for actions in burma, whilst he was in the KAR, he didnt serve in Burma and was just a cook. he did see action in the Mau Mau rebellion. he later tried to call his VC the Victorious Cross when he got in an arguement with the president of the VC and GC Society

[@avigenuth4395]

When I was in basic training in the IDF, we were explained the crucial importance of accurate and truthful reports up the chain of command. One thing that was constantly repeated to us was how often Arab commanders on the ground would lie or mislead their higher ups the paint a rosy picture, and how damaging this was for their war efforts. Kennth Pollack extensively in his book “Arabs At War.” A fantastic read.

[@alexsis1778]

As a programmer we have a saying that I think applies well to this. Garbage data in, garbage out.

[@ahmadel-zebedy]

That was basically same done by IDF they fake reported that everything was under control and Egypt won't fight back for its own land but they eventually did and took back there own land due to IDF incompetence

[@heshamabdou5259]

The generation of 1973 is completely different from the 1967 generation, who were completely arrested because they were CIA agents. Rather, it was happening, and this is clear by reducing the announcement of the extent of Israeli losses in Egypt so that the United States and the West do not send unlimited support to Israel

[@heshamabdou5259]

Also, with all this unlimited support for Israel from America, the entire West, and even the Soviets, who were conspiring against Egypt and supporting Israel in secret, and Sadat’s expulsion of them, it was a miserable failure in the face of the late Egyptian forces in everything related to armament. However, it is a huge loss for Israel in a naive way

[@llamatreee]

All Arabs do is lie lol. To each other, to themselves, to anyone and everyone. They’re just a rabble of backwards savages. No doubt they invented this victory.

[@jep77ray]

It's fascinating

[@davidatrakchi2707]

October 14th was a day in which the war turned, Encouraged by their achievements the Egyptians (president Saadat against the advice of his military commanders) decided to stream more tanks to Sinai in order to deepen the Egyptian penetration into Sinai. Only this time IDF was fully prepared and they lost between 200 and 250 tanks on that day. These events would later bring IDF to cross the Sues canal and encircle the third army... being there as a soldier we witnessed many air battles, the leading Israeli interceptor back than was the French Mirage lll c, the Kurnas (A4 Phantom ) always scared us while it was shaving the dunes with it’s mighty two engines at full throttle... We were deeply terrified by the Egyptian artillery but their air force did not leave me with any post trauma, while crossing the Sues canal on October 19th we were attacked by a couple of Mig 19 but my impression was that the pilots weren’t really concerned about attacking us but more kind of troubled the the Israeli jets that circled the area

[@jon6815]

Seemingly in an instant and out of nowhere, a formation of four IDF Phantoms hit my IDF unit (931) near the Bekaa valley in June 1982. It caused absolute mayhem - 24 killed. Around three hours later a Syrian plane turned up right over us, trundled around on its side giving us a bird's eye view of the pilot in his cockpit, lobbed a big iron bomb harmlessly in the middle of the wadi and flew off. So I've had the rare pleasure of being attacked by the IAF and by the Syrian air force with a period of less than four hours.

[@ef2718]

You had a typo in Kurnas (A4 Phantom ) Kurnas is F4 Phantom, A4 is Skyhawk (F for fighter, A for Attack).

[@SheridanM551]

We need an animated series of the Yom Kippur War

[@julianmhall]

Oh and a second point. The losses.. 11:17 How many families on each side list a son that day? How many squadrons needed more pilot's /and/ aircraft?

[@NaveedKhan-bm8cg]

Map video is best for understanding👍👍 , amazing

[@eze8970]

TY 🙏🙏

[@kornvitanoontakaroon6021]

I suggest that There is more possibility to claim that 17 Israel aircraft shot down majority to the Sam site more than mig 21 alone, Egyptian air force simply can't do that according to ealier engagements

[@christopherdallenbach7897]

Such an interesting story and piece of history. I think the battle happened but I have doubts on the claims about the events. If Egypt in fact didn’t embellish the outcome then this would be indeed a great victory and strong lesson for any military: “predictability breeds opportunity.” With that said unless more information is made available to the public we may never know the whole truth. Great video!

[@user-np2jy4dd3p]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/iYLEdXuOnKl5kMksi=LY23cOHNgBg8sEXY

[@jehadbehery5873]

You spoke about Lt. Gen. Mahmoud Shaker Abdelmoneim but the picture was for Lt. Gen. Abdelmoneim Reiad the Chief of staff .. but overall it's a great effort thank you very much

[@sledgehammerk35]

Egyptians and Israelis are gonna love this video lol

[@monkofdarktimes]

It was real in their minds

[@zombieat]

@@monkofdarktimes the parts of at least 5 israeli jets were retrieved from all across the nile delta on that day. cope. and uhh i guess those 2 jets israel admitted losing were only in our minds too.

[@TheOperationsRoom]

So - what do you reckon...?

[@istandwithisraeI]

Given Israel’s air record I’m pretty sure this is another Egyptian cope

[@iamarizonaball2642]

Mind doing one of the coalition against isis? It beats the gulf war in numbers of countries. 75 countries against a terrorist group.

[@charsoam8205]

​@@istandwithisraeI I bet you got a sniffer

[@Foreign0817]

Yeah... I think it's an Egyptian cope.

[@NATO32Nations]

Governments will always try to gain a win wherever they can. Knowing history, this is probably an Egyptian propaganda move. While I’m not one to criticize the Egyptian Air Force, I’m skeptical that a dogfight of that size would occur.

[@shero113]

Might one suggest a video on the Battle of Chinese Farm? It was possibly the hardest battle of the Sinai campaign in 73, one that both sides claim as a victory. Ultimately an Israeli victory, as they opened the road, but at a terrible cost.

[@ahmadfathy7994]

Israel was besieged in the breach after they failed to enter the city of Suez

[@printhelloworld7151]

1:58 casually playing with a former CSGO player LOL

[@adeedaas8966]

Judging on how the Egyptians like to portray the results of the 6 day war, I have a very hard time believing that the results of this battle.

[@KosherCookery]

To be blunt, if Egypt were capable of inflicting such an air defeat on Israel we'd see evidence of it elsewhere in the war. Indeed, the ass-kicking Egypt received could not have been so thorough.

[@Genessyss]

tell me you're an Israelite without telling me you're an Israelite.

[@KosherCookery]

@@Genessyss Israel is 4-0 against Egypt, cope harder.

[@confusedturtle2275]

@@Genessyss You dont have to support Israel to acknowledge that Israel has defeated egypt multiple times

[@Genessyss]

@@confusedturtle2275 Israel destroyed not only Egypt but all of their enemies multiple times. Still doesn'tmean they don't lie or use propaganda.

[@Genessyss]

@@KosherCookery what's your point? They still lost a number of planes in this operation? Or are you claiming that 4-0 was done with 0 casualties?

[@shaalis]

The world's biggest "He said, She said".

[@reign6870]

Something super interesting.

[@DJhayzeus]

Catch it before it’s taken down unfortunately :/ thanks OR ❤

[@erminos8628]

Ahh perfect saturday night relax moment

[@z0ro_62]

Humm sounds very unlikely to that scale especially when reinforcements where inbound but just decided to turn around

[@naamadossantossilva4736]

Yeah,just after a big dogfight is exactly when you would want to attack,as everyone already spent their best weapons and ground crews are rushing to refuel and rearm. We saw how devastating this is on Midway,where carriers with ammo and fuel hoses on the deck became easy kills.

[@hornetlander7259]

The primary objective of that massive air raid was to destroy two main air bases of EAF (Tanta AB, Mansoura AB). IAF jets split into three primary waves first was 60 jets followed by 16 followed by another 60 (the second wave group). All of which where attacking from three directions (Port Said, Damietta and Baltim), all were flying very low. Once spotted, primary objective of EAF was set to break formations and force them disperse. EAF intercept waves involved 32 jets from Mansoura AB split into 16 followed by another 16, supported by 8 jets from Abu Hammad AB and 8 from from Tanta AB, and lastly 8 from Inshas AB with last 8 Migs scrambled from Mansoura AB (Mansoura AB had its whole fleet of 40 Migs up in the air). At some point of the battle there were more than 180 jets in the sky (+60 EAF Migs and +120 IAF Phantoms, Mirages and Skyhawks) that's why it's considered as the largest and longest air battle in history. One remarkable IAF effort that they maintained to evade/avoid most of Egypt Air Defense sites thanks for low flying and the flight course itself. Many other remarkable efforts for Egyptians, early warning capabilities, rapid interaction, the way they formed only 5 formations of 62 jets to intercept double the number, refueling and re-arming time reached its lowest at two to three minutes only, and lastly very minimal losses as only 3 jets were downed during the fight (two more were crashed when tried to land on a highway road after running out of fuel). At the end most of IAF formations were forced to withdraw, most of them were forced to abandon their payload for better dogfight performance or to withdraw with minimal losses, many of attacking and escort jets were shot down (as many as 17 or more).

[@HiteshBhagatGameTech]

hey man, been watching ur show since 4k subs, crazy growth buddy. and thank you for removing the grrr intro. it really used to bust my ears with headphones.

[@JR-tt5oo]

I lean on it not happening, because its just so fantastical. Its the largest ever, and the egyptian airforce was incredibly inferior in terms of training and skill.

[@JBRAI22]

I find this doubtful, it doesn’t make sense to me why Israel would send so many aircraft to attack a single aircraft and Israeli pilots were of the highest class, now I don’t deny that the mig could outmanoeuvre the phantom

[@soundspartan]

I add this to the list of . . . Things that make you go, hmm . . .

[@erichluepke855]

Likely there was an ambiguous outcome and neither side wants to admit as such.

[@napoleonibonaparte7198]

When I heard the name "Hosni Mubarak", instantly knew it had something to do with politics.

[@neshirst-ashuach1881]

Yeah, the future dictator of Egypt being in command of by far the most successful air battle the Egyptians ever had against Israel is definitely a weird coincidence...

[@ebonbonb652]

Egypt: We won a glorious victory… Israel: NUH UH

[@monkofdarktimes]

In reality it's a draw that was too costly for both

[@hausser0815]

@@monkofdarktimes idk, if you repel an agressor so good he doesnt attack any longer, thats not a draw for the defender.

[@joeshmoe8345]

Great

[@thekinginyellow1744]

1:23 best reason ever!

[@QemeH]

62 MiGs winning against *one hundred and sixty* F-4 and A-4 and the losing side, despite having 160 planes, lost just 17 in the process even by egyptian claims? I'm not saying the egyptians made up an entire engagement just to save face - but I'm also not saying that they didn't make up an entire engagement...

[@asherwiggin6456]

Considering missile accuracy rates in the early 70s, I feel this is basically impossible

[@TheJacobshapiro]

The explanation later in the video is probably accurate. An engagement probably did happen, but it involved only a single squadron of phantoms plus a few more coming north after bombing Tanta. A combination of confusion, misidentification, and propaganda is responsible for the discrepancy in narratives in all likelihood.

[@QemeH]

@@TheJacobshapiro Yeah, it sounds like the PR departement was a little quick with broadcasting an embelished story of a flight commander - only to realize that the story was already waay inflated, but they couldn't walk it back publicly.

[@QemeH]

Oh and probably the Israelis seized the moment that they could provide ahrd evidence that it couldn't have been this big by not just saying "we have evidence that it was smaller", but by saying "we have evidence that THIS didn't happen" and left everything else up to inferrence, so they couldn't walk back the "didn't happen, bro" either :D

[@Genessyss]

yeah 17 might be a fictive number but to say it didn't happen is so embarassing that I am laughing at all the propagandists here

[@steadyjumper3547]

Did this video really just happen?

[@TheOperationsRoom]

I don't know

[@iknowurip8151]

@@TheOperationsRoom *vsauce intro start playing*

[@monkofdarktimes]

It's theoretical

[@trentvlak]

I deny the existence of this video, although I did spend 15 minutes of my life somewhere.

[@ivan_pozdeev_u]

@@trentvlak Checking out War Machines perhaps.

[@Xsuprio]

I heard an alien ship came down, shot a few planes on both sides and yelled "Break it up! BREAK IT UP!".

[@jeffblacky]

I was stationed in the Sinai near one of the old trenches At SCC7 Hot 125 - 140 in the shade

[@derrickdinwiddie8759]

All of those pictures of Egyptians on the tail of Israeli planes shows that the Egyptians weren't pushovers in battle, However, it doesn't seem like the battle itself was as big or damaging as was reported by Egypt. Awesome video!

[@gj1234567899999]

There should be 17 kornas fighters on the ground since they were supposedly shot down over Egypt.

[@ziggamon]

You guys should do a video of the battle of COP Keating (what the movie The Outpost was based on)

[@bryonslatten3147]

This was 50 years ago. I’m old.

[@zizomalek]

My father eyewitnessed this battle from the ground and when he talks about it feels like we missed one of the most epic moments in history.

[@Redmalicious]

What did he witness during that day, I'm curious, whatever he saw would literally be a first hand account of what happened that day.

[@brandondaniels9471]

14:46 - the battle in the comments > the battle over the skies of the middle east

[@Whatisthisstupidfinghandle]

Hey. Didn’t open with the classic Operations Room intro 😢 Please restore !

[@bobbiecrider6964]

I spent October14th,1973 my eighteenth birthday in Barcelona and the next ninety days off the coast of Israel aboard The USS Franklin D Roosevelt CVA 42 as a member of CVW 6 VA 87

[@MichaelRose87]

If 15 or 17 Israeli aircraft were shot down, where's all the wreckage? Where are the captured or dead pilots? Nowhere to be found. My feeling is there was some sort of small engagement that maybe didn't go the Israeli way (so they're denying it completely) and was inflated by the Egyptians into a huge air battle and a great win against the IAF for propaganda purposes.

[@dylandarnell3657]

Or a massive friendly-fire incident on the Egyptian side.

[@Z10N4Z1Z]

Hosni Mubarak origin mythology.

[@OuroborosChoked]

What a bizarre story...