Air to Air Intercooler vs. Air to Water Intercooler

[@shiloh5199]

Good to see you guys recorded another video!!

[@FlatironsTuning]

We are getting back into the swing of everything now in the new year. Lots more in store. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!

[@AmirPomen]

Yes.. finally topic i really wanted to see being discussed on subaru application! Going to watch it during dinner

[@FlatironsTuning]

Excellent! Hopefully it is helpful. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!

[@bryanallendorf7064]

I'm getting ready to tune my VB WRX, and it's funny this video pops in my feed. I told my tuner I'm going to order an ETS TMIC and charge pipe. The TMIC on the 22 is bigger, like the STI but not big enough for the power the FA24 can make. Have you guy's been following the new platform? Love it!

[@FlatironsTuning]

We definitely have. kzbin.info/www/bejne/i4jLgpihnsmjh9k&feature=shares Stay Tuned as we have a lot more in the works for the new WRX :-)

[@ricardoshi839]

Whilst I think you have made many very valid points. I believe that the elephant in the room was not addressed. The main drawback to a WTA intercooler seemed to be heatsoak and complexity. Your car already has a water to air intercooler that typically deals with around double the thermal load compared to the power output of the engine and doesn't get heatsoaked. For context, if the car makes 100kW, this water to air intercooler is constantly dissipating up to 200kW, think 100 electric heaters on full and yet it stays cool. Not only that it maintains the temperature within a 10 degree range. I believe that a well designed WTA intercooler should be able to keep cool, with minimal heatsoak. The main thermal difference between a WTA intercooler and a air to air intercooler is the thermal mass of the system. If an air to air intercooler is used in slow stop start traffic, it will still heatsoak, no different to a WTA intercooler. What is required is for the hot side to continue to be cooled instead of relying on passive airflow. As per my previous statement, if adequately designed the system should be able to maintain cooler temperatures as well as improving response due to the smaller volume to pressurise. It is the assumption that the turbo sizing is adequate for the application. If all else being equal the WTA intercooler should as a norm, be capable of improving the overall response of the turbo. EDIT Thank you for always providing interesting content presented in an informative and easy to understand format 👍

[@FlatironsTuning]

Thanks for your comment. We actually discuss these issues in the video at this point: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mYOXgpmGn5ymars&feature=shares&t=354 But thank you for the extra details in your comment. Stay Tuned!

[@cainlawson4570]

I've heard a huge benefit is the consistency of a water to air intercooler, since it takes much more heat to affect water Temps you can tune more aggressive since you can rely on the Temps being more consistent

[@FlatironsTuning]

Thanks for your question. That is correct, but as we discuss in the video, it is also somewhat easy to overload the air to water systems, and from that point on, you have to back off significantly to give the system to cool back down. There is definitely a balance there. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!

[@chrism6]

ive got a frozen boost one on my sti and its as good as a fmic cooling wise but has the response of a tmic.

[@FlatironsTuning]

Thanks for the comment, and glad to hear that system is working our for you. Stay Tuned!

[@patonbike]

One thing I think might be overlooked on your average air to water system is the pump. Those popular inexpensive pumps that Ford and Chevy used , and then many people copied are really not good-- they just do not flow much water especially with restrictions (radiator, 90 degree bends, etc). Newer pump offerings flow approx double or more... and my guess is would have a significant impact on heat soak and IATs.

[@FlatironsTuning]

Thanks for the comment, and that is definitely a good point. Any pump used in a cooling system needs to be able to cycle the fluid enough to move the heat around as needed. Thanks for watching and StayTuned!

[@yowie0889]

A bit of a show & tell video about how you installed and set up the AEM sprayer on the Pikes Peak car would be interesting (including why certain things were done that way).

[@FlatironsTuning]

Thanks for your question. We do have a video talking about the cooling changes to the Pikes Peak car, including the latest version of the water spraying system here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kILOhqh3adJsnsk&feature=shares Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!

[@GustavoDVillarreal]

All the issues discussed with the Water to Air are solved with a correctly sized heat exchanger. The Air to Air is mentioned having a big box with fins, yet the W2A is mentioned with a tiny heat exchanger. The results are obvious.

[@oliverscorsim]

Was thinking the same thing not a very good apples to apples approach. Personally I find pump flow is huge. Iv gotten away with two small coolers at the corners and a big pump, intercooler combo even on long drives and one of the regular ones are 200miles each way. Last year we moved to a BMW water pump and it fixed the issues of the f150 pump but even that worked great until the boost started getting high.

[@GustavoDVillarreal]

@@oliverscorsim True, plenty of electrical pumps just don't have much real flow in the system, it is essential to have a good flowing pump when the boost gets high. I use the Meziere 20gpm usually recommended as an upgrade for supercharged cars and in my system it flows much less than specs when running freely in a bucket with no input and output pressure head, so with a smaller pump it would flow very very little! I think we just don't have enough knowledge in the Subaru community regarding proper W2A setups. Glad to see some of us are still soldiering on :D

[@junit7590]

I have one of those Legacies, the BC5 RS. Made 200kw atw with the water cooler but flow became the issue just couldn't flow enough air.

[@FlatironsTuning]

Thanks for the comment and thanks for watching. Stay Tuned!

[@thewayfaringanarchists8157]

These videos are great. I’m thinking of going water to air for auto cross. Sitting for 15 min between runs then going wot for a min… you could cook an egg on my top mount. I’d rather avoid going to a front mount for lag reasons, I wonder if anyone has any experience with this

[@FlatironsTuning]

Thanks very much! Yes, for the use you are describing, an Air to Water IC could work really well. Just keep in mind that if you do head to the track, you could have an issue where heat will build in the AWIC after a few laps. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!

[@gfarnden56]

I've been using an air to water cooler on my gd for 3years... no issues at all. It makes 860whp with over 40psi of boost and no issues. Done about 10 track days in summer.. iat is always 3 deg warmer than ambient.

[@Jim-y6c]

The only way to fight the heat soak would be to use a battery vehicles cooling system. It would be more complex but adding a battery chiller like Mahle can drop the temps drastically. Draw back would be a another A/C system just for that.

[@G4Disco]

I was thinking of integrating a Tesla battery cooling pump that uses PWM for speed control.

[@matthewdaniels7462]

Do you know of an intercooler upgrade that keeps the pcv system?

[@liamholcroft7212]

why do you want to keep the pcv system? just vent it to atmosphere and prevent crap getting into your engine.

[@FlatironsTuning]

All of the intercooler options should not have an effect on your PCV system. You may have to re-route some lines, but you should be able to keep everything functional. Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!

[@bendordoy4815]

Good and very informative video however air to air intercoolers aren't the best/practical options for every car such as rear engine vehicles such as Subaru swapped classic Volkswagen beetles or mid engine cars such as a Subaru swapped Porsche 914.

[@josefodunga]

I think you failed to talk about how most high horsepower cars are using air to water especially in hot vee or supercharged, m cars etc..

[@SleepyCorn-qv2nw]

I cannot say using the owner of a 30 + yr old factory W2A application to attest to heat soak issues is valid. Modern day, W2A are widely being used in high hp factory applications and put A2A cooling results to shame.

[@lylegoodluck]

Top mount water cooled super chargers on V8 engines must get really hot.. and only stays cool for a few minutes..

[@FlatironsTuning]

Thanks for the comment and thanks for watching. Stay Tuned!

[@aquapisces24]

First!

[@FlatironsTuning]

Nice!

[@aquapisces24]

​@@FlatironsTuning One big reason why I subscribed to your channel besides the nice content it offers is the way the content is presented to viewers, because poor presentation as it is in (BaderBuilds) channel for example, is something repellent and it'd make me immediately stop watching.